Wanted: a "Save energy, be more secure" howto

[Brian Mury]

On Mon, 2005-07-03 at 17:39 -0500, mark at mark.mielke.cc wrote:
> An electric heater is not 100% efficient and the components in it are
> *made* to be efficient for the purposes of heating. (I'm not even sure
> what 100% efficient means when converting electricity to heat - I
> would think that it would mean 100% electricity in = 100% heat out -
> which is not the case at all for any sort of electrical heaters that I
> am familiar with)

Of course an electric heater is 100% efficient. A lightbulb is not 100%
efficient - it's job is to produce light, but it has loss in the form of
heat. An electric heater's job is to produce heat - and it has loss in
the form of what? Heat? Every bit of energy consumed by an electric
heater generates heat. All of it. Every last bit.

Please tell me where you think the electrical energy that is not
converted to thermal energy goes.

> The electricity is being controlled, and as much as possible of it
> *leaves* the computer out your electrical socket, without being
> converted to heat.

You have a magic computer that pumps energy back into the grid? Cool.
Where do I buy one?

A computer (or anything else) draws as much current as it needs. It
doesn't draw extra current and then pump what it doesn't need back into
the grid - that's just silly. All of the energy going into it is
converted into other forms of energy - and sooner or later, it will all
end up as heat.

> One might as well argue that a traditional electrical stove could heat
> a house. It's ridiculous. The device is not designed to heat a house,
> so even if you put dozens of them in a room, it wouldn't have the
> desired effect. Ask somebody who knows - I'm in Ottawa, Canada here
> and we have snow falling in March. I have a foot of snow in my driveway
> to clear when I get home. Although I do leave the stove open after I
> shut it off to release the heat, there is nothing in my mind that is
> convincing me that I'm "breaking even" by doing this. I'm recovering a
> fraction of the cost required to heat my stove by allowing the heat
> to escape directed towards the air in the house (as opposed to directed
> to the walls, and so on).

Of course an electric stove (or several of them) could heat a house. It
is, after all, an electric heater. It's just a matter of having enough
capacity. I'm also in Canada, BTW, and have lived in Ottawa as well as
in much colder places, though I'm not sure how that's relevant to an
understanding of electrical theory.

And yes, you are breaking even. All of the energy used by your electric
stove generates heat. Where else does it go? Certainly not back into the
grid.

> Your argument is pretty flimsy.

That's a pretty gutsy statement to make coming from someone who clearly
doesn't understand basic electrical concepts but is debating the subject
anyway (I'm not trying to be rude, just stating the obvious). It's also
an incorrect statement, since my arguments are not flimsy but correct.

Before you ask, yes, I do have an electrical engineering degree.

> Of course - perhaps that is your
> point?  Perhaps you are trying to convince people that leaving a
> computer on when it isn't being used is ridiculous, and you are using
> sarcasm, and a ridiculous position to make your case?

Not at all. I don't really care what other people do with their
computers. They can save on power by burning whatever combustible parts
their computers may contain to generate heat, for all I care.