Hard drive cable question -
Wolfgang
wolfgang at rpi.net.au
Thu Feb 23 11:19:08 UTC 2006
On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 18:06 +1030, Tim wrote:
> Wolfgang Gill wrote:
> >>> Nope it doesn't matter. Drive selects are done with jumpers on the
> >>> drive. All IDE 40/80 pin cables are straight through, so the drive
> >>> itself govens whether it's master or slave. When I only have one
> >>> drive, I use the middle connector, and hide the other one out of the
> >>> way, to give me better casing air flow.
>
> Tim:
> >> That is just so much misleading, not to mention outright wrong,
> >> information. Kindly stop leading people down the garden path.
>
>
> Wolfgang Gill:
> > Misleading?? That wasn't misleading at all!! And I'M NOT leading people up the
> > garden path.
>
> It's completely wrong to say that all IDE 40 or 80 wire cables are wired
> straight through. THEY ARE NOT! Repeat after me, they are NOT *all*
> wired straight through. And if anything, the *majority* are not.
>
> On any (40 or 80) that're cable-select, one wire is disconnected from
> one plug, and the same pin is grounded on another. That's not "straight
> through" wiring.
>
> On any that're 80-wire, only 40 of the wires can be "straight through",
> 40 don't connect to anything other than one plug, and there's two that
> might be connected as above (most 80-wire cables are cable-select, I
> won't go as far as to say that all of them are.
>
I never said no such thing that ALL 40/80 pin IDE cables are straight
through. You can´t get them off the shelf unless you specifically ask
for them. Since they are the cheapest to manufacture, they will be the
most likely that people will come across.
> So, now, tell me how that equates to being wired "straight through"?
>
> Hint: Don't argue with an electronics engineer about basic wiring.
>
More like an Electronics Engineer arguing with another Electronics engineer.
(25 years in electronics/computers)
> > I've build literally 10,000 of machines (Probably more, lost count
> > after the first 1000 or so). And only 1% have failed due to hardware
> > faults, and cabling wasn't one of them. It's NO use to explain things
> > into GREAT detail to people that have little understanding of the
> > concepts as it is, and confuse them even more.
>
> It's a very bad, VERY BAD, idea to outright lie to people. Do not tell
> false people information as if it were fact. Over-simplifying things to
> the point that they are wrong is misleading. The people who take you at
> face value later have to unlearn all the bad information that they found
> out, which is a difficult thing to do.
>
>
> >> If one is hiding parts of cables out of the way, one should be
> >> careful how it's done. Kinking or mangling cables can produce
> >> problems. If you're *never* going to use the extra length, I'd
> >> suggest just cutting it off.
>
> > Now that's the part that's misleading.. "Cut it off if you don't need it",
> > that's a REALLY, SMART thing to say to people that barely understand this
> > concept at all. (**Shakes Head**)
>
> If you know how transmission lines work, and bear in mind the
> frequencies involved, taking excess cable and rolling it up, folding it
> up, bundling it under drives, etc., can lead to all sorts of problems.
>
> I repeat, if you're NEVER going to use the excess, it's fine to cut it
> off. Doing so will do NO harm to the signalling, and can remove a
> plethora of weird problems that people may encounter due to stuffing
> cables into any spare space.
>
> I take comments that "I've built thousands with no problems" with a
> grain of salt. How many PCs get problems that the builder will never
> hear about? Lots. How many problems go undiagnosed? Lots. How many
> people magically fix their systems by fiddling with the cables? Lots.
>
>
> >> Usually (Depending on brand of drive), the master drive is jumpered,
> >> and the slave drive isn't.
>
> >> I wouldn't agree with that at all, I see no consistency.
>
> > You obviously haven't dealt with different number of different brands of drives
> > in the same system. IF you did, you'd know all about it..
>
> I have. You've obviously dealt with too few.
>
> I've seen drives which need no jumper for master, one jumper for it, two
> jumpers for it (depending on whether it was single or with a slave).
> I've seen slaves with one jumper, no jumper, and so on. I couldn't go
> around giving some assertion that it's more common for masters to be
> jumpered and slaves to be not, because I don't see that sort of
> consistency anywhere, and it's a useless thing to rely on. It's just
> encouraging people to make ill-considered assumptions about drives by
> quickly glancing at the back instead of checking out the jumpering
> that's actually needed by the drive.
>
I never said anything along those lines either. And you don´t have to
explain it to me, I´ve been there done that. And it seems that we both
overlooked the fact that the original poster, was using a cable select
cable. As drives jumpered as master/slave don´t function when two drives
are connected to the cable.
¨;doesn't seem to care which data cable connector is attached to it, but
when I put in the second drive, jumpered as "slave" the computer won't
boot.¨
Enough said from me, I hate this damned arguing crap..
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