FC5 - T3 - Had enough. Package Managers, Yumex is crap.

[Jim Cornette]

Daniel B. Thurman wrote:
> Unfortunately, yumex and package manager is really a bad
> design IMHO because when I went through all the trouble
> of identifying the packages I wanted installed (it was
> massive), all of these packages would spend 12 hours
> downloading GB of files from the Internet, start testing
> the transaction and either crash or hang the FC5-T3 completely,
> i.e I could no longer ping FC5-T3.

Is it the version of yumex from Fedora Extras development?
> 
> Restarting the package programs, would perform a yum clean up
> effectively wiping out the 12 hours (3 times) or so downloaded
> package I was looking for the designer of these package program
> and wanted to say a few unkind words.  I was definately displeased.
> Why do the designer of these package programs decide to do an
> automatic cleanup and don't even bother asking the user first
> is beyond me. 

I usually run yum clean all after verifying the install went well. 
Usually there are still packages cached in 
/var/cache/yum/development/packages after pirut exits. I did not realize 
that pirut would do a cleanup. This is bad if a user wanted to copy the 
rpms that were downloaded to media for future upgrades on other 
non-networked machines. If it does actually cleanup, filing a bug report 
against pirut would be wise. WE cannot do much more than side either way 
or another action. Updating the program is easier if the designer knows 
about the bug.

> 
> Never mind that this is T3 - this is a really horendeous way
> to treat a tester when they cannot even download the updates
> or packages needed to get FC5-T3 updated to a useful state.
> Maybe the best thing to do is to download the RPM files and
> do a rpm manual install and toss these package managers
> completely out of my FC5-T3 system.

If you want to install off of the local media, you can make a repo file 
or edit the link to baseurl=file:///media/<mountpoint-for-DVD> and run 
yum, pirut to install desired packages from the install disc. (dvd 
anyway). I had to set up a local repo to update a non-networked computer 
from FC5T2 to FC5T3 because of a USB DVD problem and the upgrade took. 
It did take a really long time to complete, but it did complete.

> 
> Hell, with yumex, I tried to select 5 packages - it went through
> the whole thing up to transaction testing and the whole program
> dropped dead, i.e. the entire application program disappeared
> and no trace/log of what the heck happened.  Yumex is in serious
> need of repair - it is extremely unstable.  Package Manager is
> probably more stable but is dumber than an ox.

A select all for different groups would make things more bearable on the 
installer. Pirut pretty much mirrors what is available from the 
installer except there is a list feature where you can pick items that 
are not in any particular group. I like pirut and it performs the job 
well for my purposes. I don't think that the program should be 
criticized harshly. I do think that nicely toned bug reports to 
bugzilla.redhat.com and component pirut would aid in improvements to the 
program.

> 
> I think I will stop here and take a long break. I will let the
> other testers do the fun part of testing.  I am just not going
> to continue to rubber hose my self and scream 'mea culpa'.

Filing bug reports against the problems which you noted would be great 
to try to eliminate them for FC5. I don't think a large amount can be 
done since the freeze is today and FC5 should be out shortly after.
The trouble to file bug reports might get improvements added after FC5 
is released though.

Thanks for taking the time to test the distro to be. It looks like you 
might be holding back on upgrading for awhile.

I mostly like what I have experienced with the test distribution. I did 
not like certain additions and deletions of programs and such. I 
expressed my likes/dislikes and realize the distribution to be 
marketable for a wide range of users, certain programs have to be 
eliminated or made absolutely unexciting to be less offensive to the 
mainstream. Personally, I find the elimination of certain programs to 
cut away at the personality of Linux distributions in general. I can add 
what I need. Those who want to make the distribution boring can become 
satsfied and developers can hide graphics defects by not exposing the 
cards to tests.

Jim

> 
> Had enough,
> Dan
> 


-- 
Always look over your shoulder because everyone is watching and plotting
against you.