Users and Groups

[Karl Larsen]

Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> David Boles wrote:
>   
>> Does not yelp do all, or most, of the 'help' calls? I have never really
>> tried, or cared, because most 'help files' are a waste of time.
>> Developers and such write really good code but they, sorry developer
>> people, tend to stink at docs, helps, and howtos',  ;-)
>>
>>     
> Yes, I believe yelp will handle them all. Now, when it comes to help
> files, or manual pages, usually the developer is the worst person to
> be writing it. It is too easy to forget to include minor details
> that you do without really thinking about it. The best way is if you
> can work with an "average user" of your program, and see if they
> understand what you wrote, and can use the program from just the
> documentation. If they can use the basic functions without looking
> at the documentation, that is even better.
>
> As you say, the skills needed to write good code, and the skills
> needed to write good documentation are not the same. It is unusual
> to find a person that is good at both. What is needed are people
> that are good at writing documentation, and understand the program,
> to write better documentation. It would also help to have people go
> through the existing man pages and update them to match the current
> state of the programs.
>
>   
>> As for the 'help files' for this really simple GUI? One that 'Joe
>> Average user' will/should probably *never* use or even see? And probably
>> would *not* read the help if it was there. And that Joe 'I know what the
>> heck I am doing' Administrator should know without a simple helpme file?
>>
>> The GUI that I looked at had, for example, an 'Add user' button. And an
>> Edit user' button. And a 'Delete user' button. You need instructions for
>> this? Think about this. If you need simple 'help me!!' instructions for
>> this *you should not be here doing this!*.
>>
>>     
> I tend to agree with you. But then again, I like using command line
> tools for jobs like this, so I am probably not the best judge of
> this. Then again, considering the post that started this thread, I
> guess help is needed, because users are going to be using this
> program even if they do not know what they are doing. If nothing
> else, it lets the writers sneak in a little advice on best practices
> and security. (I have not read through the help files to see if they
> actually do this.)
>   
>> <rant mode on>
>>
>> IMO - and I do understand what is happening here - the *dumbing down* of
>> Linux so that it will attract *dumb Windows users* (not my words, or
>> thoughts, just the general thinking of some elitist Linux users) has
>> created a whole generation of Windows users turned Linus users that are
>> *dumb*. Not *dumb* but just don't have any idea what the heck is going
>> on or why.
>>
>> If you follow this list you will see it every day. "I don't know what
>> this is, or why it is like this, but I changed it and now my <fill in
>> the blank here> which used to work does not work." And when someone, who
>> knows what is/might be wrong, can help me fix it, and tries to help me I
>> will argue with them?
>> <rant mode off>
>>
>> Grrr...
>>     
> I know exactly how you feel. I wounder if Fedora is really the
> distribution they should be using. You never know if there is a
> Fedora problem, or if they broke something themselves. Users like
> this are one of the reasons I don't give nearly as much advice as I
> used to, and if others are giving help, I usually leave it to them.
> You also get the ones that when ever something does not work the way
> they expect it to, it is a bug. So, like the boy who cried wolf, if
> by chance they do discover a bug, they get ignored.
>
> What really makes me chuckle is that we did find what looks like a
> bug in system-config-users, but it is not what the OP complained about.
>
> Mikkel
>   
    I am at this time preparing to write help for Users and Groups. Done 
properly it will make this application much easier to use. I plan to 
include a strong warning about damage you can do if you miss-use the 
application.

    It is not as dangerous as a root terminal but close :-)

And I think many users fix rm so it will decend into directories.


Karl


-- 

	Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
	Linux User
	#450462   http://counter.li.org.
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