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Re: Too many processes question.



Les wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 14:02 -0600, Steve Siegfried wrote:
> > Les wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 21:04 -0600, Steve Siegfried wrote:
> > > > Les wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ladies and gentlemen...
> > > > >    I have 104 processes listed when I run the monitor.  My system is
> > > > > slowing to a crawl, dropping internet connections and jerking like it
> > > > > has epilepsy.  Would someone please tell me how many process should be
> > > > > running in a simple workstation setup (not a server).
> > > > > 
> > > > > 	Or better yet post a list.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Les H
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > It's actually more complicated than that.  Response times & zippyness
> > > > pretty much rely on:
> > > > 	- how much spare capacity the cpu has,
> > > > 	- how much memory is available,
> > > > 	- amount of I/O (including networks) taking place
> > > > 
> > > > A quick place to start looking for what's using all your horsepower
> > > > is top(1) (it's in the procps package).  Pids that clock lots of time
> > > > are your first suspects.
> > > > 
> > > > See also: nice(1).
> > > > 
> > > > Hope this helps,
> > > > 
> > > > -S
> > > Here is the output:
> > > # top -b -n 1
> > > top - 10:38:49 up 1 day, 19:16,  1 user,  load average: 0.19, 0.52, 0.79
> > > Tasks: 113 total,   1 running, 112 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
> > > Cpu(s): 11.3%us,  1.5%sy,  0.1%ni, 85.8%id,  1.2%wa,  0.1%hi,  0.0%si,
> > > 0.0%st
> > > Mem:    254824k total,   248528k used,     6296k free,     3076k buffers
> > > Swap:   524280k total,    87628k used,   436652k free,    68036k cached
> > > 
> > >   PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND            
> > > 17220 root      15   0  2156  912  704 R  5.6  0.4   0:00.07 top                
> > >     1 root      15   0  2032  564  540 S  0.0  0.2   0:02.88 init               
> > >     2 root      RT   0     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 migration/0        
> > >     3 root      34  19     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.03 ksoftirqd/0        
> > >     4 root      RT   0     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 watchdog/0         
> > >     5 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.63 events/0           
> > >     6 root      14  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.05 khelper            
> > >     7 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.02 kthread            
> > >    53 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.30 kblockd/0          
> > >    54 root      20  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 cqueue/0           
> > >    55 root      20  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 ksuspend_usbd      
> > >    58 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.03 khubd              
> > >    60 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.02 kseriod            
> > >    88 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 kapmd              
> > >    93 root      15   0     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:02.13 pdflush            
> > >    94 root      15   0     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:02.21 pdflush            
> > >    95 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:08.64 kswapd0            
> > >    96 root      20  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 aio/0              
> > >   257 root      11  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 kpsmoused          
> > >   279 root      12  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 ata/0              
> > >   280 root      12  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 ata_aux            
> > >   287 root      13  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 kmirrord           
> > >   292 root      14  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 ksnapd             
> > >   295 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:11.12 kjournald          
> > >   328 root      11  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 kauditd            
> > >   362 root      17  -4  2916  372  336 S  0.0  0.1   0:01.39 udevd              
> > >   598 root      10  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.01 kgameportd         
> > >   697 root      11  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 ac97/0             
> > >  1289 root      13  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 kmpathd/0          
> > >  1323 root      13  -5     0    0    0 S  0.0  0.0   0:00.00 kjournald          
> > >  1813 root      15   0  9540 4716  324 S  0.0  1.9   0:00.11 restorecond        
> > >  1824 root      18   0  1696  516  472 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.37 syslogd            
> > >  1827 root      18   0  1644  380  328 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.07 klogd              
> > >  1854 root      15   0  2124  312  264 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.97 mcstransd          
> > >  1867 rpc       16   0  1780  396  392 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.00 portmap            
> > >  1921 root      15   0  4924  260  236 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.05 rpc.idmapd         
> > >  1941 dbus      18   0 13080 1248  984 S  0.0  0.5   0:36.77 dbus-daemon        
> > >  1993 root      19   0  6260  752  636 S  0.0  0.3   0:08.64 automount          
> > >  2038 root      18   0 15292  332  328 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.01 hpiod              
> > >  2043 root      15   0 13032  856  580 S  0.0  0.3   0:02.32 python             
> > >  2089 ntp       15   0  4840 4840 3856 S  0.0  1.9   0:00.87 ntpd               
> > >  2115 root      15   0  8984  832  636 S  0.0  0.3   0:01.25 sendmail           
> > >  2126 smmsp     15   0  7920  636  524 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.05 sendmail           
> > >  2138 root      15   0  1868  280  260 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.37 gpm                
> > >  2149 root      18   0  5392  612  544 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.51 crond              
> > >  2182 xfs       18   0  4132 1188  500 S  0.0  0.5   0:01.16 xfs                
> > >  2213 root      18   0  2584  344  300 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.02 atd                
> > >  2229 root      18   0 47464  31m 3000 S  0.0 12.6  15:29.20 yum-updatesd       
> > >  2257 haldaemo  15   0  6560 2216 1252 S  0.0  0.9   1:45.20 hald               
> > >  2258 root      15   0  3104  892  804 S  0.0  0.4   0:00.09 hald-runner        
> > >  2266 haldaemo  18   0  2348  576  572 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.00 hald-addon-keyb    
> > >  2270 haldaemo  15   0  2344  576  572 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.00 hald-addon-keyb    
> > >  2278 haldaemo  15   0  2344  604  580 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.59 hald-addon-keyb    
> > >  2288 root      18   0  1920  528  508 S  0.0  0.2   0:11.16 hald-addon-stor    
> > >  2290 root      18   0  1924  528  508 S  0.0  0.2   0:05.41 hald-addon-stor    
> > >  2326 root      15   0  1960  768  624 S  0.0  0.3   0:06.07 dhcdbd             
> > >  2342 root      15   0 14544 1528 1332 S  0.0  0.6   0:06.01 NetworkManager     
> > >  2358 root      15   0  3156  988  868 S  0.0  0.4   0:00.03 NetworkManagerD    
> > >  2453 root      18   0  1952  432  284 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.21 smartd             
> > >  2461 root      18   0  1624  368  364 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.00 mingetty           
> > >  2462 root      18   0  1628  368  364 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.00 mingetty           
> > >  2463 root      19   0  1628  368  364 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.00 mingetty           
> > >  2464 root      20   0  1624  368  364 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.00 mingetty           
> > >  2465 root      21   0  1628  368  364 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.00 mingetty           
> > >  2466 root      23   0  1628  368  364 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.00 mingetty           
> > >  2541 root      18   0  4488  988  984 S  0.0  0.4   0:00.01 prefdm             
> > >  2544 root      15   0 15376 1956 1952 S  0.0  0.8   0:00.32 gdm-binary         
> > >  2633 root      18   0 15764 1768 1712 S  0.0  0.7   0:00.39 gdm-binary         
> > >  4079 root      15   0  9748 1204 1088 S  0.0  0.5   0:02.89 cupsd              
> > >  9138 lesh      15   0  2520 1132  960 S  0.0  0.4   0:05.79 gam_server         
> > > 11489 root      15   0 33772  13m 6200 S  0.0  5.5  18:23.24 Xorg               
> > > 11712 lesh      15   0 22416 5296 4312 S  0.0  2.1   0:00.88 gnome-session      
> > > 11768 lesh      18   0  4288  344  220 S  0.0  0.1   0:00.03 ssh-agent          
> > > 11771 lesh      18   0  2736  484  404 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.00 dbus-launch        
> > > 11772 lesh      15   0 13080  972  728 S  0.0  0.4   0:00.24 dbus-daemon        
> > > 11779 lesh      16   0  7480 3760 1656 S  0.0  1.5   0:06.36 gconfd-2           
> > > 11782 lesh      20   0  2532  536  456 S  0.0  0.2   0:00.00 gnome-keyring-d    
> > > 11784 lesh      15   0 33364 5932 4620 S  0.0  2.3   0:10.97 gnome-settings-    
> > > 11800 lesh      15   0 17664 8088 5932 S  0.0  3.2   0:44.01 metacity           
> > > 11804 lesh      15   0 66300 4456 3660 S  0.0  1.7   0:28.23 gnome-power-man    
> > > 11807 lesh      18   0 70660 9.8m 7324 S  0.0  4.0   0:10.75 gnome-panel        
> > > 11809 lesh      20   0  105m 8924 7368 S  0.0  3.5   0:07.55 nautilus           
> > > 11814 lesh      15   0 38528 2152 1620 S  0.0  0.8   0:00.99 bonobo-activati    
> > > 11822 lesh      16   0 11164 2380 2036 S  0.0  0.9   0:00.14 gnome-vfs-daemo    
> > > 11826 lesh      15   0 69672 9.8m 7344 S  0.0  3.9   0:14.49 wnck-applet        
> > > 11830 lesh      15   0 97148 5552 5004 S  0.0  2.2   0:00.46 trashapplet        
> > > 11839 lesh      15   0 16056 4428 3652 S  0.0  1.7   0:09.53 gnome-screensav    
> > > 11847 lesh      15   0 22564 5112 4596 S  0.0  2.0   0:00.43 notification-ar    
> > > 11849 lesh      15   0 69080 6404 5668 S  0.0  2.5   0:02.73 mixer_applet2      
> > > 11851 lesh      19   0 27900 7004 5800 S  0.0  2.7   0:05.77 clock-applet       
> > > 11863 lesh      15   0  2440  728  692 S  0.0  0.3   0:00.55 mapping-daemon     
> > > 11871 lesh      16   0 44236 4996 4652 S  0.0  2.0   0:00.42 eggcups            
> > > 11879 lesh      15   0 22116 3112 3104 S  0.0  1.2   0:00.10 gnome-volume-ma    
> > > 11886 lesh      15   0 24580 8460 5444 S  0.0  3.3   0:01.43 puplet             
> > > 11887 lesh      15   0 89664  20m 9572 S  0.0  8.3   2:23.51 beagled            
> > > 11891 lesh      15   0 68256 8604 6736 S  0.0  3.4   2:15.95 nm-applet          
> > > 11898 lesh      18   0  5900 1032 1028 S  0.0  0.4   0:00.04 escd               
> > > 11960 lesh      15   0 14900 3464 3128 S  0.0  1.4   0:06.72 pam-panel-icon     
> > > 12052 root      15   0  1804  616  516 S  0.0  0.2   0:03.32 pam_timestamp_c    
> > > 12155 lesh      15   0  100m 5640 3776 S  0.0  2.2   0:01.80 evolution-data-    
> > > 13644 lesh      22   0 70940 7724 6228 S  0.0  3.0   0:00.49 evolution-alarm    
> > > 16910 lesh      30  15 38172  14m 7888 S  0.0  6.0   0:06.58 beagled-helper     
> > > 16981 lesh      15   0 60916 8372 5792 S  0.0  3.3   0:01.19 notification-da    
> > > 16984 root      15   0  2280 1088  788 S  0.0  0.4   0:00.01 dhclient           
> > > 17057 lesh      15   0  188m  24m  16m S  0.0  9.8   0:27.39 evolution          
> > > 17104 lesh      15   0 31132  26m 2564 S  0.0 10.5   0:08.36 spamd              
> > > 17108 lesh      18   0 31264  25m 1996 S  0.0 10.3   0:00.47 spamd              
> > > 17112 lesh      15   0 83784  12m 8472 S  0.0  5.1   0:21.06 gnome-terminal     
> > > 17117 lesh      18   0  2440  664  564 S  0.0  0.3   0:00.01 gnome-pty-helpe    
> > > 17118 lesh      16   0  4624 1432 1156 S  0.0  0.6   0:00.19 bash               
> > > 17149 lesh      15   0 80044  19m  13m S  0.0  7.9   0:06.39 gedit              
> > > 17151 root      18   0  4808 1208  956 S  0.0  0.5   0:00.05 su                 
> > > 17155 root      15   0  4624 1444 1168 S  0.0  0.6   0:00.15 bash               
> > > 
> > > [root localhost ~]# 
> > > 
> > > Other that just entirely too many things running, this doesn't seem to
> > > tell much about the problem.
> > > Note that I run Gnome desktop, but there are a large number of items
> > > beginning with "k", which I thought indicated 
> > > the KDE versions of software.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Les H
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Okay... first: was your system sluggish when you grabbed the output
> > above?  If not, it's probably not much use in diagnosing the problem.
> > Your average system load looks light, so you're clearly not continously
> > beating the CPU to death.
> This also applies to swap.  I am not getting much swap action either.

If I remember an earlier post correctly, you've oversubscribed memory by about
150%, so you _are_ swapping.  The issue with swapping is not whether or not
it's happening, but when it happens, how much and how often.

> > Second: yum-updatesd seems to have accumulated 15 and a half minutes
> > of cpu time.  Is that process stuck somehow?  You don't usually see yum
> > related stuff taking that much cpu time.
> > 
> When running firefox, I was seeing CPU nearly 100% a lot and never less
> than about 40%.
> There doesn't seem to be much difference with system monitor running or
> not.
> 
> > Third: Xorg has clocked over 18 minutes, which seems high, especially
> > since your box has been up slightly more than 43 hours.  This tells me
> > that you've either got a real slow cpu/graphic combo or you've got a
> > ton of automatic graphic stuff running.  You might look at a simplier
> > (less graphic intensive) window manager.
> 433Mhz CPU, ATI Rage MB graphics.

433Mhz?  Ouch!  So this is a Pentium-2 or Pentium-3, right?  With 256MB
of memory, right?  That slow and that small make running <ahem> "large"
programs painful... programs like firefox tend to force smaller programs
to swap in order to generate enough room to run.
 

> > Fourth: Looks like your box only has 256MB of memory.  This is kinda
> > small for most recent Linux boxen.  Further, as of the snapshot above,
> > you're using over 87MB of swap space.  This probably means that your
> > box is quietly swapping itself silly.  Is the disk light on a lot
> > or, if the light isn't hooked up, can you hear the disk drives a lot?
> > My guess is yes.
> > 
> Not really.  The light is broken somehow, but the drive is mostly
> silent.

Actually, modern drives are pretty quiet and you can't always hear 'em
when they move the read/write head by small amounts.  Without the drive
light working, it may be tough to tell by ear when the drives are doing I/O.

> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Recommendations:
> > 	1- For each hard drive ($X) you've got, run:
> > 		 hdparm /dev/hd$X
> > 	   and make sure the "using_dma" line says "1 (on)".  If using_dma
> > 	   isn't "1 (on)", then examine your BIOS settings at the next
> > 	   boot for that drive to make sure that DMA is 1) supported,
> > 	   2) enabled, and 3) that the drive itself actually supports DMA.
> 	2 drives, DMA on both.

Good.


> > 	2- Look at the list of daemons/servers you're currently running
> > 	   and get rid of any you don't absolutely need.
> 	I believe this is the problem, so I posted the top list.  None of the
> daemon processes
> 	seems to be non-essential to my admittedly old eyes.  
> 		I have the following services running:
> 		Network Manager
> 		NetworkManagerDispatcher
> 		acpid
> 		anacron
> 		atd
> 		autofs.
> 		cpuspeed
> 		crond
> 		cups
> 		gpm
> 		Haldaemon
> 		hplip
> 		ip6tables
> 		iptables
> 		kudzu
> 		lm_sensors
> 		Kudzu
> 		lmsensors
> 		mcstrans
> 		mdmpd
> 		messagebus
> 		gpm
> 		ip6tables
> 		iptables
> 		nscd and ntpd

James Wilkinson's previous post to the Fedora list about what to turn off
is pretty complete.  I'd argue over a couple of 'em (like gpm and sshd),
but you could just as easily start by turning off the stuff he recommends
and then turning stuff back on one at a time until you hit a performance
snag, too.

> 
> 
> 
> > 	3- Buy more memory.  Shoot for 1GB if your wallet can stand it,
> > 	   but make sure your motherboard can support it (almost all
> > 	   recent ones can).
> > 
> > After all the above:
> > 
> > 	3- Look into why yum-updatesd is sucking so much CPU time.
> > 
> > 	4- Look at a more modern graphic card
> > 
> > Hope this helps,
> > 
> > -S
> 

Given all that's in this thread, especially the 433Mhz/256MB cpu/memory
info, I'd strongly recommend you look at 512MB or even 1024MB worth
of memory.  If your CPU is a Pentium 2 or Pentium 3, memory should
be fairly cheap at your local BestBuy or CircuitCity.  If I recall
correctly, it ought to be PC100 or PC133 memory, but take your box
(or just the memory SIMs if you're comfortable removing 'em and have a
ground strap to use while doing so) with you to make sure they give you
the right kind of SIMs.  If you have the hardware manual that came with
your computer, it'll tell you in there, too (and will also tell you what
the upper limit for memory is as well).

Adding memory will NOT speed up your computer until you start using
enough memory that the old configuration would have started swapping.
Once you hit that point, you'll notice a considerable difference...
like when running FireFox with 512MB of memory fer instance.

If adding memory is not an option, then work on getting rid of the
memory pigs.  Turn off auto-yum and run it manually every so often,
start using a smaller browser (galeon?) and/or quit firefox when not
actively browsing,  turn off spamd and use spamassassin via the method
described when you type "rpm -qi spamassassin", et cetera.  And try not
to run more than one memory-piggish thing at a time if possible.

Good luck with this ('cause I think you're gonna need some :-)

-S


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