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Re: Too many processes question.



Steve Siegfried schreef:
Les wrote:
On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 14:02 -0600, Steve Siegfried wrote:
Les wrote:

On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 21:04 -0600, Steve Siegfried wrote:
Les wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen...
   I have 104 processes listed when I run the monitor.  My system is
slowing to a crawl, dropping internet connections and jerking like it
has epilepsy.  Would someone please tell me how many process should be
running in a simple workstation setup (not a server).

	Or better yet post a list.

Thanks,
Les H

It's actually more complicated than that.  Response times & zippyness
pretty much rely on:
	- how much spare capacity the cpu has,
	- how much memory is available,
	- amount of I/O (including networks) taking place

A quick place to start looking for what's using all your horsepower
is top(1) (it's in the procps package).  Pids that clock lots of time
are your first suspects.

See also: nice(1).

Hope this helps,

-S
Here is the output:
# top -b -n 1
top - 10:38:49 up 1 day, 19:16,  1 user,  load average: 0.19, 0.52, 0.79
Tasks: 113 total,   1 running, 112 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu(s): 11.3%us,  1.5%sy,  0.1%ni, 85.8%id,  1.2%wa,  0.1%hi,  0.0%si,
0.0%st
Mem:    254824k total,   248528k used,     6296k free,     3076k buffers
Swap:   524280k total,    87628k used,   436652k free,    68036k cached

PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 17220 root 15 0 2156 912 704 R 5.6 0.4 0:00.07 top 1 root 15 0 2032 564 540 S 0.0 0.2 0:02.88 init 2 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 migration/0 3 root 34 19 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.03 ksoftirqd/0 4 root RT 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 watchdog/0 5 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.63 events/0 6 root 14 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.05 khelper 7 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 kthread 53 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.30 kblockd/0 54 root 20 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 cqueue/0 55 root 20 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 ksuspend_usbd 58 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.03 khubd 60 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.02 kseriod 88 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kapmd 93 root 15 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:02.13 pdflush 94 root 15 0 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:02.21 pdflush 95 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:08.64 kswapd0 96 root 20 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 aio/0 257 root 11 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kpsmoused 279 root 12 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 ata/0 280 root 12 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 ata_aux 287 root 13 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kmirrord 292 root 14 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 ksnapd 295 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:11.12 kjournald 328 root 11 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kauditd 362 root 17 -4 2916 372 336 S 0.0 0.1 0:01.39 udevd 598 root 10 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.01 kgameportd 697 root 11 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 ac97/0 1289 root 13 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kmpathd/0 1323 root 13 -5 0 0 0 S 0.0 0.0 0:00.00 kjournald 1813 root 15 0 9540 4716 324 S 0.0 1.9 0:00.11 restorecond 1824 root 18 0 1696 516 472 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.37 syslogd 1827 root 18 0 1644 380 328 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.07 klogd 1854 root 15 0 2124 312 264 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.97 mcstransd 1867 rpc 16 0 1780 396 392 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.00 portmap 1921 root 15 0 4924 260 236 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.05 rpc.idmapd 1941 dbus 18 0 13080 1248 984 S 0.0 0.5 0:36.77 dbus-daemon 1993 root 19 0 6260 752 636 S 0.0 0.3 0:08.64 automount 2038 root 18 0 15292 332 328 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.01 hpiod 2043 root 15 0 13032 856 580 S 0.0 0.3 0:02.32 python 2089 ntp 15 0 4840 4840 3856 S 0.0 1.9 0:00.87 ntpd 2115 root 15 0 8984 832 636 S 0.0 0.3 0:01.25 sendmail 2126 smmsp 15 0 7920 636 524 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.05 sendmail 2138 root 15 0 1868 280 260 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.37 gpm 2149 root 18 0 5392 612 544 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.51 crond 2182 xfs 18 0 4132 1188 500 S 0.0 0.5 0:01.16 xfs 2213 root 18 0 2584 344 300 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.02 atd 2229 root 18 0 47464 31m 3000 S 0.0 12.6 15:29.20 yum-updatesd 2257 haldaemo 15 0 6560 2216 1252 S 0.0 0.9 1:45.20 hald 2258 root 15 0 3104 892 804 S 0.0 0.4 0:00.09 hald-runner 2266 haldaemo 18 0 2348 576 572 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.00 hald-addon-keyb 2270 haldaemo 15 0 2344 576 572 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.00 hald-addon-keyb 2278 haldaemo 15 0 2344 604 580 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.59 hald-addon-keyb 2288 root 18 0 1920 528 508 S 0.0 0.2 0:11.16 hald-addon-stor 2290 root 18 0 1924 528 508 S 0.0 0.2 0:05.41 hald-addon-stor 2326 root 15 0 1960 768 624 S 0.0 0.3 0:06.07 dhcdbd 2342 root 15 0 14544 1528 1332 S 0.0 0.6 0:06.01 NetworkManager 2358 root 15 0 3156 988 868 S 0.0 0.4 0:00.03 NetworkManagerD 2453 root 18 0 1952 432 284 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.21 smartd 2461 root 18 0 1624 368 364 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 mingetty 2462 root 18 0 1628 368 364 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 mingetty 2463 root 19 0 1628 368 364 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 mingetty 2464 root 20 0 1624 368 364 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 mingetty 2465 root 21 0 1628 368 364 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 mingetty 2466 root 23 0 1628 368 364 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.00 mingetty 2541 root 18 0 4488 988 984 S 0.0 0.4 0:00.01 prefdm 2544 root 15 0 15376 1956 1952 S 0.0 0.8 0:00.32 gdm-binary 2633 root 18 0 15764 1768 1712 S 0.0 0.7 0:00.39 gdm-binary 4079 root 15 0 9748 1204 1088 S 0.0 0.5 0:02.89 cupsd 9138 lesh 15 0 2520 1132 960 S 0.0 0.4 0:05.79 gam_server 11489 root 15 0 33772 13m 6200 S 0.0 5.5 18:23.24 Xorg 11712 lesh 15 0 22416 5296 4312 S 0.0 2.1 0:00.88 gnome-session 11768 lesh 18 0 4288 344 220 S 0.0 0.1 0:00.03 ssh-agent 11771 lesh 18 0 2736 484 404 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.00 dbus-launch 11772 lesh 15 0 13080 972 728 S 0.0 0.4 0:00.24 dbus-daemon 11779 lesh 16 0 7480 3760 1656 S 0.0 1.5 0:06.36 gconfd-2 11782 lesh 20 0 2532 536 456 S 0.0 0.2 0:00.00 gnome-keyring-d 11784 lesh 15 0 33364 5932 4620 S 0.0 2.3 0:10.97 gnome-settings- 11800 lesh 15 0 17664 8088 5932 S 0.0 3.2 0:44.01 metacity 11804 lesh 15 0 66300 4456 3660 S 0.0 1.7 0:28.23 gnome-power-man 11807 lesh 18 0 70660 9.8m 7324 S 0.0 4.0 0:10.75 gnome-panel 11809 lesh 20 0 105m 8924 7368 S 0.0 3.5 0:07.55 nautilus 11814 lesh 15 0 38528 2152 1620 S 0.0 0.8 0:00.99 bonobo-activati 11822 lesh 16 0 11164 2380 2036 S 0.0 0.9 0:00.14 gnome-vfs-daemo 11826 lesh 15 0 69672 9.8m 7344 S 0.0 3.9 0:14.49 wnck-applet 11830 lesh 15 0 97148 5552 5004 S 0.0 2.2 0:00.46 trashapplet 11839 lesh 15 0 16056 4428 3652 S 0.0 1.7 0:09.53 gnome-screensav 11847 lesh 15 0 22564 5112 4596 S 0.0 2.0 0:00.43 notification-ar 11849 lesh 15 0 69080 6404 5668 S 0.0 2.5 0:02.73 mixer_applet2 11851 lesh 19 0 27900 7004 5800 S 0.0 2.7 0:05.77 clock-applet 11863 lesh 15 0 2440 728 692 S 0.0 0.3 0:00.55 mapping-daemon 11871 lesh 16 0 44236 4996 4652 S 0.0 2.0 0:00.42 eggcups 11879 lesh 15 0 22116 3112 3104 S 0.0 1.2 0:00.10 gnome-volume-ma 11886 lesh 15 0 24580 8460 5444 S 0.0 3.3 0:01.43 puplet 11887 lesh 15 0 89664 20m 9572 S 0.0 8.3 2:23.51 beagled 11891 lesh 15 0 68256 8604 6736 S 0.0 3.4 2:15.95 nm-applet 11898 lesh 18 0 5900 1032 1028 S 0.0 0.4 0:00.04 escd 11960 lesh 15 0 14900 3464 3128 S 0.0 1.4 0:06.72 pam-panel-icon 12052 root 15 0 1804 616 516 S 0.0 0.2 0:03.32 pam_timestamp_c 12155 lesh 15 0 100m 5640 3776 S 0.0 2.2 0:01.80 evolution-data- 13644 lesh 22 0 70940 7724 6228 S 0.0 3.0 0:00.49 evolution-alarm 16910 lesh 30 15 38172 14m 7888 S 0.0 6.0 0:06.58 beagled-helper 16981 lesh 15 0 60916 8372 5792 S 0.0 3.3 0:01.19 notification-da 16984 root 15 0 2280 1088 788 S 0.0 0.4 0:00.01 dhclient 17057 lesh 15 0 188m 24m 16m S 0.0 9.8 0:27.39 evolution 17104 lesh 15 0 31132 26m 2564 S 0.0 10.5 0:08.36 spamd 17108 lesh 18 0 31264 25m 1996 S 0.0 10.3 0:00.47 spamd 17112 lesh 15 0 83784 12m 8472 S 0.0 5.1 0:21.06 gnome-terminal 17117 lesh 18 0 2440 664 564 S 0.0 0.3 0:00.01 gnome-pty-helpe 17118 lesh 16 0 4624 1432 1156 S 0.0 0.6 0:00.19 bash 17149 lesh 15 0 80044 19m 13m S 0.0 7.9 0:06.39 gedit 17151 root 18 0 4808 1208 956 S 0.0 0.5 0:00.05 su 17155 root 15 0 4624 1444 1168 S 0.0 0.6 0:00.15 bash [root localhost ~]#
Other that just entirely too many things running, this doesn't seem to
tell much about the problem.
Note that I run Gnome desktop, but there are a large number of items
beginning with "k", which I thought indicated the KDE versions of software.

Regards,
Les H


Okay... first: was your system sluggish when you grabbed the output
above?  If not, it's probably not much use in diagnosing the problem.
Your average system load looks light, so you're clearly not continously
beating the CPU to death.
This also applies to swap.  I am not getting much swap action either.

If I remember an earlier post correctly, you've oversubscribed memory by about
150%, so you _are_ swapping.  The issue with swapping is not whether or not
it's happening, but when it happens, how much and how often.

Second: yum-updatesd seems to have accumulated 15 and a half minutes
of cpu time.  Is that process stuck somehow?  You don't usually see yum
related stuff taking that much cpu time.

When running firefox, I was seeing CPU nearly 100% a lot and never less
than about 40%.
There doesn't seem to be much difference with system monitor running or
not.

Third: Xorg has clocked over 18 minutes, which seems high, especially
since your box has been up slightly more than 43 hours.  This tells me
that you've either got a real slow cpu/graphic combo or you've got a
ton of automatic graphic stuff running.  You might look at a simplier
(less graphic intensive) window manager.
433Mhz CPU, ATI Rage MB graphics.

433Mhz?  Ouch!  So this is a Pentium-2 or Pentium-3, right?  With 256MB
of memory, right?  That slow and that small make running <ahem> "large"
programs painful... programs like firefox tend to force smaller programs
to swap in order to generate enough room to run.
Fourth: Looks like your box only has 256MB of memory.  This is kinda
small for most recent Linux boxen.  Further, as of the snapshot above,
you're using over 87MB of swap space.  This probably means that your
box is quietly swapping itself silly.  Is the disk light on a lot
or, if the light isn't hooked up, can you hear the disk drives a lot?
My guess is yes.

Not really.  The light is broken somehow, but the drive is mostly
silent.

Actually, modern drives are pretty quiet and you can't always hear 'em
when they move the read/write head by small amounts.  Without the drive
light working, it may be tough to tell by ear when the drives are doing I/O.


Recommendations:
	1- For each hard drive ($X) you've got, run:
		 hdparm /dev/hd$X
	   and make sure the "using_dma" line says "1 (on)".  If using_dma
	   isn't "1 (on)", then examine your BIOS settings at the next
	   boot for that drive to make sure that DMA is 1) supported,
	   2) enabled, and 3) that the drive itself actually supports DMA.
	2 drives, DMA on both.

Good.


	2- Look at the list of daemons/servers you're currently running
	   and get rid of any you don't absolutely need.
	I believe this is the problem, so I posted the top list.  None of the
daemon processes
seems to be non-essential to my admittedly old eyes. I have the following services running:
		Network Manager
		NetworkManagerDispatcher
		acpid
		anacron
		atd
		autofs.
		cpuspeed
		crond
		cups
		gpm
		Haldaemon
		hplip
		ip6tables
		iptables
		kudzu
		lm_sensors
		Kudzu
		lmsensors
		mcstrans
		mdmpd
		messagebus
		gpm
		ip6tables
		iptables
		nscd and ntpd

James Wilkinson's previous post to the Fedora list about what to turn off
is pretty complete.  I'd argue over a couple of 'em (like gpm and sshd),
but you could just as easily start by turning off the stuff he recommends
and then turning stuff back on one at a time until you hit a performance
snag, too.


	3- Buy more memory.  Shoot for 1GB if your wallet can stand it,
	   but make sure your motherboard can support it (almost all
	   recent ones can).

After all the above:

	3- Look into why yum-updatesd is sucking so much CPU time.

	4- Look at a more modern graphic card

Hope this helps,

-S

Given all that's in this thread, especially the 433Mhz/256MB cpu/memory
info, I'd strongly recommend you look at 512MB or even 1024MB worth
of memory.  If your CPU is a Pentium 2 or Pentium 3, memory should
be fairly cheap at your local BestBuy or CircuitCity.  If I recall
correctly, it ought to be PC100 or PC133 memory, but take your box
(or just the memory SIMs if you're comfortable removing 'em and have a
ground strap to use while doing so) with you to make sure they give you
the right kind of SIMs.  If you have the hardware manual that came with
your computer, it'll tell you in there, too (and will also tell you what
the upper limit for memory is as well).

Adding memory will NOT speed up your computer until you start using
enough memory that the old configuration would have started swapping.
Once you hit that point, you'll notice a considerable difference...
like when running FireFox with 512MB of memory fer instance.

If adding memory is not an option, then work on getting rid of the
memory pigs.  Turn off auto-yum and run it manually every so often,
start using a smaller browser (galeon?) and/or quit firefox when not
actively browsing,  turn off spamd and use spamassassin via the method
described when you type "rpm -qi spamassassin", et cetera.  And try not
to run more than one memory-piggish thing at a time if possible.

Good luck with this ('cause I think you're gonna need some :-)

-S

Also you might want to try the opera web browser, it's not as "big" as firefox.
Also xfce would be a better choice than gnome for slow machines.
I run opera and xfce on an IBM thinkpad (366Mhz,128MB RAM) and it's workable (Core 5 not 6).


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