Flat Monitors [OT]

Robin Laing Robin.Laing at drdc-rddc.gc.ca
Thu Nov 1 19:34:29 UTC 2007

Dean S. Messing wrote:

> : > The statement that LCDs "are crap" for serious graphics work is simply
> : > not true any more.  High-end LC panels _far_ exceed CRTs in every
> : > category (e.g., brightness, colour gamut, tone scale, MTF, dynamic
> : > range) except response time, and with "overdrive" and the new
> : > "flashing backlight" techniques on the horizon, even that barrier will
> : > soon be gone.  CRT technology, like the vacuum tube in general, is
> : > essentially dead.
> : 
> : Where I work, in television, where they do buy horrendously expensive
> : monitors, they will not touch LCDs for anything other than monitors that
> : aren't paid close attention to.
> That's because studio people are notoriaously over-conservative.  (I
> worked with them extensively at Tektronix.  Trying to get them to use
> digital scopes in the beginning was like pulling teeth.  At one point
> we had to put a circuit into one of our products to make the noise
> floor "look analogue".  It was entirely artificial but it made the
> studio engineers happy.)

I will agree with you.  They prefer tools that they are familiar with. 
Don't like change.  Heck, some would still be using U-matic recorders if 
they could get a new portable one.  :)

> : CRTs far exceed them in all the things
> : you just mentioned.
> This is simply false.   You don't appear to have looked at
> the specs in a while.

I have looked at the specs as I am trying to purchase a new computer 
system for my work.  I have yet to see a LCD monitor that provides all 
the specifications that meet the present CRT that I am using.  The 
killer is the static contrast.  I have seen a few that promote 5000:1 or 
8000:1 contrast but when you read the fine print, this is only for 
dynamic contrast.  Some of them have static contrasts in the 300:1 to 
500:1 range.  Pretty low for working on static images.
> : The contrast range of the LCD is inferior, and
> : that's the basis of all the other measurements.  With a poor contrast
> : range, you can't get the full colour gamut.
> Again, you don't appear to have looked at the specs recently.  At the
> last CES, I saw LC displays with contrast ratios exceeding 10000:1 made
> by every major manufacturer except Phillips.

I have yet to see one LCD monitor that provides a static contrast of 
1000.  The high contrasts specified are all dynamic contrasts done by 
changing the intensity of the backlight.  Can you provide one 
manufacturer that makes a high contrast (Static) LCD monitor?  I may be 
interested in purchasing it.

> The best CRTs (measured in a dark room) don't usually don't exceed
> 6000:1.  And a new generation of LCD is already being introduced by
> nearly every manufacturer that uses so-called dynamic backlight
> modulation. These have contrast ratios exceeding 100K:1

I need high contrast in static images for my work.  This dynamic 
backlight is useless when comparing individual frames from highspeed 
cameras looking for a subtle change in the contrast to see shock fronts.

> Then there's brightness.  Can you show me a CRT that has a
> brightnesses exceeding 12000 cd/m^2 ?  Modern High Dynamic Range LCDs
> always do. (They use modulated LED backlights).
> Colour gamut?  Are you kidding? With RGB LED backlights, or peaked
> phosphor fluorescent backlights, the LCD gamut completely engulfs the
> CRT gamut.  Indeed LCDs in the laboratory are now competing with OLED.
> Are you going to claim that CRT gamut exceeds OLED?  (And yes I'm
> aware of the relationship between gamut and max brightness.)
> MTF?  CRTs have _never_ been close to LCDs.
> It's no accident that traditional CRT manufacturers
> (e.g. Sony, Sharp) have shut down their manufacturing lines.
> Since this has drifted entirely off of Fedora, let's continue the
> discussion off-line if you wish.  I doubt anyone else is interested.
> Dean

I think it is useful to allow others to learn.  There are some people 
that can learn from these discussions.  Marked OT is a good idea though.

In this thread I have learned about RGB LED backlights.

FWIW, I just read a forum post about laser driven monitors that are 
supposed to be shown in January.  Could be even better than OLED or SED.

Robin Laing

More information about the fedora-list mailing list