Flat Monitors [OT]
John Wendel
john.wendel at metnet.navy.mil
Thu Nov 1 20:37:53 UTC 2007
Robin Laing wrote:
> Dean S. Messing wrote:
>>
>
>> : > The statement that LCDs "are crap" for serious graphics work is
>> simply
>> : > not true any more. High-end LC panels _far_ exceed CRTs in every
>> : > category (e.g., brightness, colour gamut, tone scale, MTF, dynamic
>> : > range) except response time, and with "overdrive" and the new
>> : > "flashing backlight" techniques on the horizon, even that barrier
>> will
>> : > soon be gone. CRT technology, like the vacuum tube in general, is
>> : > essentially dead.
>> : : Where I work, in television, where they do buy horrendously expensive
>> : monitors, they will not touch LCDs for anything other than monitors
>> that
>> : aren't paid close attention to.
>>
>> That's because studio people are notoriaously over-conservative. (I
>> worked with them extensively at Tektronix. Trying to get them to use
>> digital scopes in the beginning was like pulling teeth. At one point
>> we had to put a circuit into one of our products to make the noise
>> floor "look analogue". It was entirely artificial but it made the
>> studio engineers happy.)
>
> I will agree with you. They prefer tools that they are familiar with.
> Don't like change. Heck, some would still be using U-matic recorders if
> they could get a new portable one. :)
>
>>
>> : CRTs far exceed them in all the things
>> : you just mentioned.
>>
>> This is simply false. You don't appear to have looked at
>> the specs in a while.
>
> I have looked at the specs as I am trying to purchase a new computer
> system for my work. I have yet to see a LCD monitor that provides all
> the specifications that meet the present CRT that I am using. The
> killer is the static contrast. I have seen a few that promote 5000:1 or
> 8000:1 contrast but when you read the fine print, this is only for
> dynamic contrast. Some of them have static contrasts in the 300:1 to
> 500:1 range. Pretty low for working on static images.
>>
>> : The contrast range of the LCD is inferior, and
>> : that's the basis of all the other measurements. With a poor contrast
>> : range, you can't get the full colour gamut.
>>
>> Again, you don't appear to have looked at the specs recently. At the
>> last CES, I saw LC displays with contrast ratios exceeding 10000:1 made
>> by every major manufacturer except Phillips.
>
> I have yet to see one LCD monitor that provides a static contrast of
> 1000. The high contrasts specified are all dynamic contrasts done by
> changing the intensity of the backlight. Can you provide one
> manufacturer that makes a high contrast (Static) LCD monitor? I may be
> interested in purchasing it.
>
>
>> The best CRTs (measured in a dark room) don't usually don't exceed
>> 6000:1. And a new generation of LCD is already being introduced by
>> nearly every manufacturer that uses so-called dynamic backlight
>> modulation. These have contrast ratios exceeding 100K:1
>
> I need high contrast in static images for my work. This dynamic
> backlight is useless when comparing individual frames from highspeed
> cameras looking for a subtle change in the contrast to see shock fronts.
>
>
>>
>> Then there's brightness. Can you show me a CRT that has a
>> brightnesses exceeding 12000 cd/m^2 ? Modern High Dynamic Range LCDs
>> always do. (They use modulated LED backlights).
>>
>> Colour gamut? Are you kidding? With RGB LED backlights, or peaked
>> phosphor fluorescent backlights, the LCD gamut completely engulfs the
>> CRT gamut. Indeed LCDs in the laboratory are now competing with OLED.
>> Are you going to claim that CRT gamut exceeds OLED? (And yes I'm
>> aware of the relationship between gamut and max brightness.)
>>
>> MTF? CRTs have _never_ been close to LCDs.
>>
>> It's no accident that traditional CRT manufacturers
>> (e.g. Sony, Sharp) have shut down their manufacturing lines.
>>
>> Since this has drifted entirely off of Fedora, let's continue the
>> discussion off-line if you wish. I doubt anyone else is interested.
>>
>> Dean
>
> I think it is useful to allow others to learn. There are some people
> that can learn from these discussions. Marked OT is a good idea though.
>
> In this thread I have learned about RGB LED backlights.
>
> FWIW, I just read a forum post about laser driven monitors that are
> supposed to be shown in January. Could be even better than OLED or SED.
>
>
I'm interested in this thread, too. How about a link the forum
referenced above?
FYI, google for "silicon light machine" for some info on a really
promising MEMS/laser based display technology, now owned by Sony.
Several prototypes were developed about 5 years ago that were superior
to anything else available then (or now). Then Sony bought the tech
and they've been sitting on it ever since. Maybe waiting for
solid-state laser technology to catch up?
Regards,
John
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