fc6 nearing eol but f7 not useable yet (rant or feedback?)

[Karl Larsen]

Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Mike Wright <mike.wright <at> mailinator.com> writes:
>   
>> First mess is the "Package Updater".  1) That's not the !@#$%ing
>> program's name.
>>     
>
> Blame Fedora's GNOME Desktop Team for this mess. We KDE SIG members are 
> fighting as we can to get the menu entries to at least _include_ the real name 
> of the apps. (There's no reason they can't include both the name and the 
> generic name, e.g. "Pup Package Updater".)
>
>   
>> Its toolbar icon has no properties associated with it
>> so I can't even tell what it launches.
>>     
>
> In KDE, you can right-click and "Edit this entry...", which will both tell you 
> what is being launched and allow you to fix the name.
>
>   
>> The app itself has no "About"
>> button.  In fact, one must perform command line forensics to even find
>> out that the program's name is "pup".  (I prefer the spanish
>> pronunciation.)  Why, oh why, is every package preselected?  Why is the
>> "update list" window not resizeable?  Absolutely one of the worst user
>> interfaces I have ever used.  Actually, it's hard to call it a UI since
>> there is no interaction allowed except "click the mouse several hundred
>> times", quit, or apply, and it provides no user feedback except when it
>> barfs on itself.  Is it hanging?  Is it running?  Is it stalled?
>> Absolutely no way to tell.  Oh, a dependency issue.  Option of ignore or
>> continue?  No way, those choices are not available.  Error out.
>>     
>
> Pup was not designed for experienced users. You'll have more luck with Yumex, 
> Synaptic (my personal preference) or smart-gui. Yumex is the path of least 
> resistance as it's based on yum, Synaptic is based on apt-rpm, smart-gui on 
> smart. (There's also KYum, but it isn't very actively maintained and Yumex is 
> more powerful.)
>
>   
>> Second, where did the Applications->Run Program option go?
>>     
>
> It's still there in KDE.
>
>   
>> Third, why does the bottom toolbar show up about two inches below the
>> top one?  Right clicking on its far left edge gives me some options:
>> click "expand" twice and it returns to its position at the bottom.
>>
>> Why are the toolbar widgets now locked to the toolbar?  What, don't like
>> us rearranging things according to our own tastes?  OK fine, just right
>> click, Unlock.  Right click, Move.  Swell.  I get the plus sign shaped
>> move cursor but it doesn't work!  I can't rearrange the toolbars.
>>     
>
> These sound like more GNOME bugs, you'll probably have more luck with KDE.
>
>   
>> Well, maybe it's got its panties in a bunch.  I'll just logout and try
>> again.   Oh my!  Isn't this sweet.  Where are the toolbars?  Why doesn't
>> right click do anything?  Fortunately,  I shortcut keyed an xterm.
>> Enter the shortcut key combo and I get an xterm window with borders and
>> no prompt, no cursor, zippadeedoodah!
>>     
>
> No metacity (the GNOME window manager) running maybe? Try "metacity --replace" 
> to see if that fixes it. Or try KDE instead. ;-)
>
>   
>> Q: if it's really to be known as f7 why are the kernels named
>> "something.fc7"?  I think the decision to change the naming scheme
>> wasn't wise.  Google on f7 and you'll get lots of hits on the function
>> key but very little on fedora.
>>     
>
> Because disttags need to increase monotonically. .fc7 > .fc6.
>
>   
>> Q: why was it decided to put marketing names on the applications and
>> remove their properties?  How are we supposed to help debug, etc, if the
>> program identities are hidden from us?  This decision forces users back
>> into CLI mode.  Kind of defeats the whole GUI approach, doesn't it?
>>     
>
> See my first paragraph.
>
>   
>> I'll also take a look at KDE to see if I have better luck there.
>>     
>
> I think you will. Also try one of the alternatives to pup.
>
>         Kevin Kofler
>
>   
    If you want something that works and you can watch it, open a root 
Terminal and type yum update <enter> and sit back and watch.




-- 

	Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
	Linux User
	#450462   http://counter.li.org.