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Re: OT: Acrobat Reader needs plugin?

Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Wed, 2007-09-05 at 23:48 -0500, Mike McCarty wrote:

They are selling copies of the book on-line, and then permitting
download of same. Later, if you want to read your own copy on
your own disc, you have to let them know about it, and get permission.
This is invasion of privacy. It also prohibits one from disposing of
one's own copy as one sees fit. Part of ownership of property is the
right to dispose of it as one sees fit. Also, should they run out
of money, their website will go down, and then nobody can read his
own copy of the book on his own disc.

It's not mere quibbling to point out that what they are selling is
subscription access to online materials (including a copy of the book),
valid as long as you are paid up.  That's not the same as a copy of the
book that you then own.  If the site goes down, then they owe you a

The "copy" I want to look at is on my disc, not on theirs.

refund for the unused portion of your subscription.  But if they can't
offer the service, they won't continue to collect money from you either.
And they won't come take away your printed copy.

I don't think we have much difference of opinion over what it
is, nor whether it is, or ought to be, legal. It isn't something
I want to pay for.


Copyright law permits one to make one copy for one's own use, and
carry and use it anywhere one wants to go. These schemes prevent
that from being done. They are intentionally interfering with
rights recognized for centuries for individuals to use and dispose
of their own property.

I don't want to own their work. I want to own my copy. They don't
want me to own my own copy.

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't understand MY position on

I do understand.  I simply point out that that's not the product they
are selling in this case.  There's no misrepresentation here.  If the
product they are selling is not the product you want, you don't have to
buy it.

Yes. But in the particular example I gave, where truly defective
discs are being sold (may be a burn spot, or one where the bits
burnt to the CDROM represent an uncorrectable error, or whatever)
unless the box says "The Disc contained in this box is DEFECTIVE"
then it IS FRAUD. (IMO, IANAL, AFIAK this has not been tested
in court, YMMV)

How about this:

I'll sell you a shovel for $20, but each time you want


How about THAT for a deal, eh?

How many shovels can I sign you up for? Be sure to tell all your
friends about the good deal I have on shovels!

Well, that would be silly.  I can go elsewhere and buy a shovel without
those restrictions for a similar price.  Who needs you?

Exactly my point. And if we all say that, then this silly
attempt to prevent people from making copies of copyright material
they have purchased the use of will go away.

Now, if you offered the same deal for access to a backhoe (and I
happened to need a backhoe every so often), we might have a starting
point for negotiations.

Nope. That's called "rental". That's a whole different concept.

I don't rent books, especially not reference material, and don't want
to. Do you? I do rent movies on occasion.

Also, the information I download via my ISP and which is on my disc
REMAINS there for my own use and enjoyment. My ISP doesn't charge
me for using my own disc after I've done the download.


And I'm not defending the DMCA in any way, shape, or form.

Didn't think so. If you want to argue along the lines you suggest,
then the appropriate model is rental, and as I said I don't want
to rent my reference books. I'm suggesting to others that they
shouldn't want to, either.

Any way you look at it, I don't want it, and hope it dies as
a business model for reference information. Entertainment information
is a different matter altogether. Anyway, my point was that
this is an INAPPROPRIATE business model for this type of info,
and I intend, and recommend others, to boycott it.

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