Linux is KING - Couldn't be hacked - Mac, Vista went down in flames
Da Rock
rock_on_the_web at comcen.com.au
Tue Apr 8 03:34:48 UTC 2008
On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 23:05 -0400, max wrote:
> Da Rock wrote:
> > On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 20:20 -0400, max wrote:
> >> Da Rock wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 09:11 -0400, max bianco wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:29 AM, Da Rock <rock_on_the_web at comcen.com.au> wrote:
> >>>>> On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 13:23 +0930, Tim wrote:
> >>>>> > On Mon, 2008-04-07 at 09:36 +1000, Da Rock wrote:
> >>>>> > > As for computers; what really gets on my goat is that they're not put to
> >>>>> > > full use. We originally put men on the moon with them, we have games
> >>>>> > > that are semi intelligent that we compete against, and YET we still use
> >>>>> > > them simply as a typewriter or communication device. Yes, they can be
> >>>>> > > used as this, but they have so much grunt these days they could be doing
> >>>>> > > the mundane of our tasks in life. Stupid M$ has made our machines dumb,
> >>>>> > > and our computers still run as slow as they did under 3.1 with all the
> >>>>> > > shit they put in the software.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Thats why SETI and other boinc projects can use our collective wasted
> >>>>> > > computing power as a supercomputer more powerful than one put to
> >>>>> > > dedicated use. Really seems silly doesn't it? We dreamed of geek houses
> >>>>> > > in the seventies and eighties, and still we haven't got there- and not
> >>>>> > > due to the lack of technology...
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I tend to sway the other direction. We're all too quick at throwing
> >>>>> > computing into areas where it doesn't really belong. e.g. Schools seem
> >>>>> > to think that putting a computer somewhere is the answer, never mind
> >>>>> > that personal teaching would be more appropriate. School's as much an
> >>>>> > exercise in learning social skills and doing what you're supposed to be
> >>>>> > doing, as it is in learning how to do math, etc. And what do we do with
> >>>>> > the students sorely lacking in social skills? Put them on a computer,
> >>>>> > often flying solo...
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Then there's the home situation. In days gone past, the most difficult
> >>>>> > technical thing anyone had to do at home was get the television to show
> >>>>> > a decent picture. Now we do have computers in media centres that make
> >>>>> > you jump through hoops to try and connect two devices together in a way
> >>>>> > that works. Digital video that doesn't work across different things
> >>>>> > because of imcompatible techniques (I hesitate to refer to them as
> >>>>> > "standards"). Recorders that forever blink 12:00 at you. Digital
> >>>>> > receivers that stutter and repeat where analogue receivers give near
> >>>>> > perfect results. Computerised washing machines that aren't any better
> >>>>> > than the old ones, even worse if you want to do something simple like
> >>>>> > repeat one cycle because something went wrong. And that Pile of Crap
> >>>>> > running Windows that spews viruses and spam around the world.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Our leisure time has gone from enjoying the company of friends, reading
> >>>>> > a book, listening to music, watching a film, to spending lots of time
> >>>>> > and money maintaining a plethora of technology at home, or just putting
> >>>>> > up with it not working right.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So you'd throw the baby out with the bathwater here?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The concept is right, and would yield a plethora of opportunities- but
> >>>>> it MUST BE DONE RIGHT. You're damned right about the M$ shitbox spewing
> >>>>> out crap. This thread and punch cards thread, plus the majority of the
> >>>>> audience on this list (it seems) come from an era where the job was done
> >>>>> right and it Just Works (TM) (I hope I haven't offended the coiner). M$
> >>>>> comes along and cheapifies it all, but it does the job in opening the
> >>>>> public to computing. What should have happened was that the training
> >>>>> wheels should have come off- but instead users have hung on to them and
> >>>>> think they're clever getting them to do things like video conferencing.
> >>>>> They should have moved on to something that truely is customizable such
> >>>>> any *nix variation. I'd even allow them Ubuntu if it got them off the
> >>>>> damn drug produced by M$.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And there is addiction through and through.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Computers could be put to use as they were intended to- to make life
> >>>>> easier- but the majority of corporations are unwilling to throw money at
> >>>>> something to do the whole job when they could get away with doing a half
> >>>>> assed job instead. Plus they make money because the unit craps out and
> >>>>> the consumer has to buy another one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I had an old man come into my shop one day with the ccd piece of a
> >>>>> scanner (at which point I'm almost physically slapping my head!) and
> >>>>> requesting a spare part for it. I then sympathetically explained that
> >>>>> he'd need a special jig to replace it anyway so there's no spare part,
> >>>>> and of course that got him started on corporate wastefulness and so on
> >>>>> for over half an hour in a lecture to me. I agreed totally, but I
> >>>>> couldn't help him then. This is the half assed job we're talking about-
> >>>>> maybe not with scanners, but the majority of products (especially the
> >>>>> ones you mentioned- washers and dryers, HiFi equipment, etc).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The fact of the matter is: any job worth doing is worth doing properly.
> >>>>> Make it work. For those of you who think the majority of work has been
> >>>>> done and now its only tweaking: its not over. There's miles to be done,
> >>>>> to get that slogan back into gear, make it Just Work (TM).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for the social aspect, consider this: we're arguing this point across
> >>>>> several continents! If it weren't for computers, we couldn't be doing
> >>>>> this. There are dangers, but this is as much of a social skill as
> >>>>> learning not to talk to strangers. So everyone can learn something. More
> >>>>> social activities can occur than ever before across a wide area. Forget
> >>>>> just the local dance hall social scene- try a GLOBAL dance hall.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And the choice is there to do what you want- or you can put it all aside
> >>>>> and get outdoors or whatever.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In this point Tim, I agree with your view of the crap, but I'd ask that
> >>>>> you consider the wider ramifications of what life would be like IF
> >>>>> computers were put to good use, and done so properly. In former
> >>>>> civilizations we had slaves (I'm not saying this is a good thing either-
> >>>>> I abhor the way they were treated) to make life easier, now we need to
> >>>>> use technology to achieve the same lifestyle- FOR ALL PEOPLE, not an
> >>>>> elite few. We can achieve something never achievable before...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>> It comes down to education. People put up with crap because they don't
> >>>> know any better. The majority of the school system uses M$ Office and
> >>>> pays for the privilege. They could easily use Open Office which is
> >>>> free and the equal of M$ Office in everyway that counts. They could
> >>>> save a ton of money, donate to help improve the project, and still
> >>>> come out ahead. All the money saved could be invested where it
> >>>> matters, like a working terminal on every student's desk.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Max
> >>> I'm afraid not, been down that track numerous times with NGO's and other
> >>> organisations. The excuse is "we're not going to retrain", "we want to
> >>> stick with something we're familiar with", "our head office only uses M$
> >>> office and we need to be compatible with them", "our suppliers can only
> >>> read M$ office documents". Tell them it is compatible as well and they
> >>> start back peddling even faster.
> >>>
> >>> Doesn't that sound like addiction to you? "I don't have a problem, I can
> >>> give up at any time"?
> >>>
> >>> What you considered would be wonderful, but it never grabs them. Been
> >>> there, tried that...
> >>>
> >>> Such a shame.
> >>>
> >> It is a shame but it won't change from the top down. Good change starts
> >> from the bottom up. Education is the key as always. Most people are
> >> surprised to find out Open Office is free and they certainly can't
> >> believe its just as functional but it is. Things are changing slowly but
> >> surely, there is alot of inertia in the market to overcome, besides
> >> which people are often not farsighted enough to see the long term
> >> consequences of their choices but that too is a matter of education. I
> >> bet if a CD full of free software was stuffed in every mailbox like
> >> those annoying AOL cd's you'd find it would take hold rather quickly.
> >>
> >> Max
> >>
> >
> > Tried that. When a habit becomes impossible to break despite all reason
> > it becomes addiction. Thats whats happened - despite education, and TCO
> > analysis, business, schools and home users refuse to give up M$. I have
> > just seen an organisation here working with a government welfare agency
> > offering computers stacked with M$ shit to people with practically no
> > money. Why not use free stuff here? Because they won't change their
> > mind- everybody uses it, its what evryone's used to, what they'll use in
> > the workplace, etc. Never mind that the basic principles of use don't
> > change across platform and its easy to learn from *nix to M$.
> >
>
> If you were running the organization would you stack the computers with
> microshit? This is the people at the top, they go with what everyone
> else does because your proabably not going to get fired for buying m$
> unless you work for me that is ;)
>
> > This government refuses to use free software- and have actually rolled
> > over to M$ from *nix- and also buys systems from overseas vendors, even
> > though there are local offerings. Business is the same.
> >
> Actually certain parts of gov't , are using open-source quite a bit.
> There have been a few articles about this, i'll see if I can dig them up.
>
There have been some governments- but not this one! Thats Australian
mind...
>
> > If this is not happening somewhere else then let me know and I'll come
> > and join you- I'm tired of banging my head against a brick wall! Mind
> > you I'll never give up, but I will show them how its done.
>
> Its everywhere ,unfortunately, but I can see the cracks spreading so its
> just a matter of time. I don't like banging my head against a brick wall
> either but the brick's gonna give before I do!!
Good man. I'll keep on the backs here too. And yes, the brick will give
before me if its my last breath...
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