Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves
Da Rock
rock_on_the_web at comcen.com.au
Sun Apr 27 11:34:44 UTC 2008
On Sat, 2008-04-26 at 10:44 -0400, max wrote:
> Da Rock wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 11:39 -0600, Robin Laing wrote:
> >> Alastair Neil wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Ric Moore <wayward4now at gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:wayward4now at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 13:05 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> >>> > That article ENTIRELY got it wrong. All RedHat said was they won't be
> >>> > pushing Linux on the consumer desktop for some time. They make their
> >>> > money from servers, and they are a company, so it's not in their best
> >>> > interest to have a product they aren't profiting from.
> >>>
> >>> OTOH, as I've said for years, desktops beget servers. Who in their right
> >>> mind would have ever thought that Windows would become a choice as a
> >>> server platform?? The Windows3.1 users got used to the desktop and it
> >>> rolled from there. Disregard the desktops of college entry level users,
> >>> and they'll migrate with their favorite platform and comfort level to
> >>> using it to admin their future server needs. What's not to understand in
> >>> this? RedHat could very well be blowing their lead and not seeing it
> >>> until too late in the game to recover.
> >>>
> >>> We (RH) used to have college programs all over the place ...usually
> >>> promoted as install fests at Universities. I haven't heard of one in the
> >>> press for years now. Servers are where the money is, no doubt. But, it
> >>> is better IMHO to have the future admins loyalty through the user
> >>> desktop by catering to them. I spent years in Marketing. I learned to
> >>> never EVER disregard the little guy. He might become the next purchasing
> >>> agent and/or decision maker. My two cents, Ric
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> An where has it got Microsoft? 20 years and countless billions invested
> >>> in marketing and they still manage only 30% of the server market.
> >>>
> >>> True, Novel lost out to WinNT in part because users got used to the
> >>> Windows interface and wanted a similar experience for managing their
> >>> servers. I refuse to believe that there is such a gulf between Ubuntu
> >>> and RHEL in functionality that users would have the same visceral
> >>> reaction and defect in droves from RH to Ubuntu - because they love
> >>> brown backgrounds on their Gnome desktops. Red Hat has focused its
> >>> desktop efforts on crafting a distribution that is best in class for
> >>> administering servers, just as SUSE is crafting a business productivity
> >>> centric desktop distribution with an emphasis on Windows
> >>> interoperability (thus Evolution, Mono/silverlight and "Don't Sue us
> >>> please Bill!" agreements). These distros have carved their own niches,
> >>> I don't as yet know what Ubuntu's niche is - windows malcontents? home
> >>> tinkerers/hobyists? Small Home Office? You could argue that this is
> >>> exactly the way linux started and who knows in 10 or 20 years maybe they
> >>> will have a significant enterprise share, however, I doubt it. Being
> >>> able to play MP3's out of the box rarely makes it onto a enterprise
> >>> server deployment specification.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> This is an interesting comment. Just a few days ago, I read an article
> >> about Microsoft pointing out companies that have moved from Linux
> >> servers due to the desktop support as well as gui management tools. Of
> >> course I hear that they are now adding more command line tools for
> >> administration due to demand.
> >>
> >> I see two aspects to this part of the debate.
> >>
> >> If people use Linux at work, they will be more likely to use it at home.
> >> They will use what they are familiar with. Most computer users are
> >> not that intelligent to using their computers. Some cannot even figure
> >> out how to update their computers.
> >>
> >> As for MS not getting a larger server share, this is a strange aspect.
> >> Part of the issue in the past has been many admins that new Unix found
> >> it easier to move to Linux from Solaris or other versions. The share of
> >> Windows servers from what I am reading is increasing. I see this as a
> >> result of the new point and click mentality. If you cannot click it,
> >> then you cannot manage it. Damn kids today. :)
> >>
> >
> > I know thats the mentality, but my god thats bullshit! I'll use cli
> > anyday for major tasks- try migrating stats support on a IIS server with
> > 400+ sites then you'll know!
> >
> >> FWIW, this thread has brought out many of the comments that have been
> >> stated in this article.
> >>
> >> Did Canonical Just Get Punked by Red Hat and Novell?
> >> http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2008/04/did-canonical-j.html
> >>
> >> Basically, the announcements are to support the server sales.
> >>
> >> I did like this comment though.
> >>
> >> "Curiously, very little attention was paid to Ron Hovespian's comments
> >> on Novell's similar plans, made before Red Hat's. If I were Novell, I
> >> would take this as a bad sign. Not only did the mainstream media not
> >> pick up on Novell's news, but even most of the hard-line Linux
> >> blogosphere wrote them off with nary so much as a "meh" And if you can't
> >> get those folks mad, you must be doing something wrong! :)"
> >>
> >> From the people that I know, the reason to move from Fedora is the
> >> upgrade path being easier. Longer support is appreciated. Some of
> >> these people are also old time Solaris users as well.
> >>
> >> I will stick with Fedora as long as I can get third party application
> >> that me and my family use. If they are only available on Ubuntu, then I
> >> will have to move.
> >
> > I think it comes down to ease of support as well. If support doesn't
> > keep up then the software is rendered useless. Ie MPlayer and codecs...
> >
> Obviously Fedora is not for the faint of heart.
No, unix is not for the faint of heart- Fedora could and should be made
easier to gain a greater share of platforms (and help reduce the zombies
on the net).
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