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Re: Java problem



Karl Larsen wrote:
> Peter Boy wrote:
>> Am Sonntag, den 30.12.2007, 12:49 -0600 schrieb Les Mikesell:
>>  
>>> It would be better if you tried to understand the consequences of
>>> this choice instead of blindly defending it.
>>>     
>> As with most decisions in real life: most benefits in one dimension have
>> drawbacks in others. If I want the freedom of free software, I may have
>> to struggle with issues in using non-free software. It is simply a
>> matter of choice (and conscious decision).
>>
>>  
>>>> Fedora did not choose "not to be compatible with..." but Fedora
>>>> choosed
>>>> not to include an non-free program (i.e. Sun's Java)
>>>>       
>>> They did both.  Including or not including isn't the issue.  Making
>>> it difficult for the user to install his own freely available copy
>>> is one problem.      
>>
>> Fedora does not make it specifically difficult. You may install the Sun
>> provided Linux rpm, are free to search the Sun bugzilla database why it
>> doesn't work out of the box (doesn't work in any Linux distribution, the
>> bug report is some years old and Sun choosed not to fix it), install one
>> of the suggested workarounds (e.g. edit a shell script
>> in /etc/profile.d) and you are ready to go. As with any distributions
>> Fedora does only care about software, which is part of its distribution.
>> Third party vendors have to care ybout their software.
>>
>> And don't confuse the Fedora model with RHEL. In RHEL Red Hat takes care
>> about Sun java integration and customers have to pay for it. Or the
>> former SuSE distribution where SuSE made a different regarding the
>> licence issue.
>>
>>  
>>> A whole separate 'jpackage' project has to exist just to fix this
>>> problem in the distribution. The problem wouldn't exist if the
>>> distribution included a java-*-sun-compat package of perfectly legal
>>> symlinks.
>>>     
>>
>> You may think of the jpackage distribution as just another workaround
>> for the fact that Sun didn't care about Linux compatibility of their
>> Linus rpm's. And it is a general purpose workaround, not a Fedora
>> specific one.
>>
>>
>>  
>>> The bigger problem is distributing something that is not java
>>> compatable   but executing it with the java name.  Microsoft tried
>>> to promote an incompatible program that similarly fit their agenda
>>> with the java name and Sun successfully sued them over it.  The
>>> fedora-shipped not-java program that executes with the java name
>>> does just as much damage and shouldn't be named java until it passes
>>> the compatibility tests.  I'm surprised fedora's legal dept. allowed
>>> this abuse of a trademarked name.
>>>     
>>
>> The software is not shipped as java, but as gcj (and with some starter
>> scripts with the filenama java for compatibility). And in contrast to MS
>> the gcj project aimed to full compatibility and the lack thereof was an
>> intermediate state during development. All this is quite different.
>>
>>
>>  
>>>> So you can develope (or simply run) against the reference version and
>>>> you can test (and support the devel of) the truly free alternative in
>>>> parallel. That's the Fedora way.
>>>>       
>>> It's not an alternative java until it passes the compatibility test.
>>>     
>>
>> You are free, not to use (and just to ignore) it! Remember, you just
>> have to use one of the above mentioned alternative ways.
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>   
>    You guys are both wrong. Fedora does ship F7 and F8 with a small
> java version 1.5 which is too old for newer java programs, and that
> broken icedtea that does nothing good. But light at the end of the
> tunnel. Fedora can make the necessary changes to their design to allow
> the method given on the Sun Site to work. I have been doing the work.
> Look at my new messages on java.
>
I still don't understand a word of what you think you are saying..... 
Try again, in English.

-- 
"More software projects have gone awry for lack of calendar time than
for all other causes combined." -- Fred Brooks, Jr., _The Mythical Man
Month_


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