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Re: java again really

Les wrote:
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 10:58 -0500, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 07:01 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote:
Knute Johnson wrote:
Knute Johnson wrote:
To install and run Sun Java on F8 look at the simplified instructions 
on this site;


You don't need to remove anything before installing Sun Java.  JEdit 
should work with icedtea anyway.

   Some of the things the page says are wrong. But it will be easy now 
with sim links to use the right java and jedit will work. By the way, I 
tried it with icedtea and it did not work at ALL!
What is wrong with the document?

Funny you should ask :-)

The document is good but it appears the two lib files are already on F8 
and it leaves out the most important part. You need to use the new java 
when you call java from a terminal. I got done with the document but 
when I would type java -version I got the wimpy version Fedora sends.

    So I looked at /usr/bin/java and it is linked to 
/etc/alternatives/java. So I mv java old.java. Then link to the new java 
with this:

[root k5di bin]# ln -s  /usr/java/default/bin/java /etc/alternatives/java

The default/bin/java will be the latest one in the /usr/java/ directory.

    With this addition my jedit was installed fast and it works right. I 
needs to be added to the document.
No, what needs to be added to the document is instructions on how to use
the alternatives facility to get these links set up properly.

I can understand how Karl or anyone else might be led to fix these
things up by hand, as above, but it's better to use the tool designed
for the job.  But in order to do so, one needs to know what that tool
is.  It's not as common knowledge as it ought to be.

man alternatives


                Matthew Saltzman
Hi, Matthew,
	I have read the man page.  However, I am not sure this is simpler???
It seems to be a tool to maintain dependency tracking for symbolic
links.  The man page also repeatedly makes reference to Debian, which is
an alternative Linux Distribution.  Given that a newbie, with some
rudimentary knowledge (like myself or Karl) can manage symbolic links,
and that we may or may not take on faith that a Debian tool will work
with Fedora, how does this improve the situation?  I know that I can
google this, but a link could be mentioned in the man page to assist
with this.  In other words the tool is not yet ready for many if not
most of us until either we improve our collective knowledge, or the
tools documentation improves to help us find our way through a minefield
of system affecting links and link modifiers.  Personally, I think such
a tool doing a relatively complex task needs really good documentation
about how to read its control script, and what each command does, and a
good example showing the effects of those commands on software updates,
software interactions (what if a shell is calling Jave.1.4 and you
update to Java.1.5 for example).  And where the links are stored and how
to back rev it when software has to be removed to restore system

I know the current thrust is to automate all system administration
tasks, but when it doesn't work, who can fix it if the "trail" is
obscured, and the author(s) of the automatic tools is no longer

Les H

i just got into reading this thread and thought i'd throw in my experience (why not???)

we had a lot of problems with the default java install on FC7 and 8.  i have my kickstart file NOT install the default java package and instead install the latest rpm from Sun.  then, i added lines to my post-install that uses the alternatives command to make the Sun install the current best version.

i haven't seen any bugs with the Sun install (although i read with interest some reports of bugs in this thread) and i'm happy with the solution.

in general, i think it's a good idea to NOT rewrite a solution to a problem in someone else's code base, so i'm suspicious of fedora doing it's own java and like the idea of incorporating the Sun rpm's in the distribution.


Steve Strong
Math and Computer Science
Washington High School
2205 Forest Dr. SE
Cedar Rapids, IA   52403

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