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Re: Java problem
- From: Lamar Owen <lowen pari edu>
- To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list redhat com>
- Subject: Re: Java problem
- Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:59:30 -0500
On Thursday 03 January 2008, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Lamar Owen wrote:
> > ; he was then and still is a gentlemen, as most of
> > the kernel developers (and Fedora packagers!) are if treated with the
> > respect that they have earned, and not with a 'I want this so you must
> > give it to me this way bwahaha!' attitude.
> It's not a matter of whether anyone must give me something or not, I
> just won't run Linux where it keeps breaking and I'm not convinced that
> anyone can do better at drivers than the vendors that build the hardware.
And, in the specific case of AMD/ATI, once things are completely open source
you may see the upstream vendor source in the upstream X.org and kernel
packages, with ATI/AMD people doing the maintenance. That would be the ideal
While it would be very nice, for many people, for the kernel module ABI and
API to remain a constant, it is plain from the Linux kernel upstream that
this isn't going to happen; and it's not a Fedora thing. The Fedora issue is
where a kernel version upgrade that changes the source code module API is
introduced inside a release; good grief, can it not wait until the next
Fedora release, where I EXPECT breakage in this interface? In F7, the 2.6.22
to 2.6.23 caught alot of people (and not just binary module people) off
guard. Will F8, which shipped a 2.6.23, get a 2.6.24 that similarly breaks
some things? After all, the Linux 2.6.x series is a development kernel
series; there was and there is no stable 2.6.x kernel (now, 2.6.x.y, on the
other hand, can be fairly stable, from an API/ABI point of view), in the same
sense as 2.4.x, 2.2.x, or even 2.0.x is and was stable.
> It's a multitasking machine - you should be able to run both [IcedTea and
> Sun JDK] at once (and you can, if you can find them).
rpm -ql is your friend. It is more difficult to do so for the browser applet.
> > You do realize that OpenJDK IS the Sun Java of the future, right, Les?
> Yes, but would you try to drive the car of the future while it still has
> some parts missing?
If I were a car enthusiast that is delving into development autos running
cutting edge biofuels, for testing on a closed circuit, sure, in a heartbeat.
Fedora is an enthusiast distribution, IMO, and is much like this hypothetical
biofuel car I might be playing around with.
Would I run the kids to town for a doctor's appointment in it? No. Would I
drive the Blue Ridge Parkway in the middle of the night in it? No. Would I
drive myself to work in it? Sure (disclosure: PARI and I are
next-door-neighbors...my commute is less than 2 miles, even though my house
is only a couple of thousand feet from my office). Would I run Fedora on a
mission critical server? No. My personal laptop? Sure, with backups and
snapshots of everything critical. What about a development server? Sure, as
it gives me a chance to try out some new stuff.
Ah, but now here's the rub: Would I drive a complete biofuels car that could
not run on straight gasoline or diesel? The question here is compatibility;
the answer is "as long as there are biofuel stations along my routes to
whereever I want to go." It would be understood that I would be on my own as
to finding fuel if I'm driving something that cutting edge; it's also
understood that just because there are no biofuels stations out in your neck
of the woods doesn't mean that I shouldn't use this car in my neck of the
woods, and vice-versa (speaking of 'neck of the woods', I'd love to see the
redneck installer language resurrected....sure beats geekspeak. Nottingham?
You listening? :-)).
What if it would run on straight diesel, but I had to add a pint of a special
homemade 'shine to the mix to make it stable? The question here is
legality; the answer is "If I can get a license to make or otherwise obtain
the 'shine legally, sure. If 'shine will always be illegal, then it depends
on the likelihood of getting caught and the penalties if I did get caught...
but, not for anything that might cause problems for my family or employer!"
(cue MP3 of 'Taps' now....) (Incidentally, for some legal pints of that
special MP3 'shine, head over to Fluendo, where the mp3 DECODER is $0, and
where you can legally obtain many other media codecs.)
We in the open source world, and specifically in the Fedora world, have a
unique and extraordinary opportunity to try out and impact the development of
our OS! Running bleeding edge stuff that you can actually tinker with is a
privilege, not a bugfest! Instead of just installing the Sun JDK and taking
the easy way out, should I have time to pursue it, I plan to help the
development of the next generation out, and feel good about doing it.
And that, in a nutshell, is why I run Fedora X (where X is the current
version) on my personal laptop, even with the annoyances I can feel great
about what bug reports and help I can provide to this great group.
Chief Information Officer
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute
1 PARI Drive
Rosman, NC 28772
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