Reasons behind defaulting atd and sendmail

[Mikkel L. Ellertson]

Les Mikesell wrote:
> Mike Cronenworth wrote:
>>
>>> The fact that you don't use a service the way it was intended doesn't
>>> make it useless.
>>>
>>  > Pretty much every program with a unix heritage assumes that
>> sendmail is
>>  > available to deliver occasional status and warning messages.
>>
>> Thank you for your response, however, I did not install Fedora just
>> yesterday. I came about writing this e-mail *after* observing common
>> usage of Fedora by normal desktop users. 
> 
> By 'normal desktop users', do you mean people who don't understand the
> capabilities?  That's a temporary situation.
>>
>> Adding a form during installation to setup an MTA will only frighten
>> new users. Most would probably skip it anyway as they wouldn't know
>> their ISPs smtp server.
> 
> If you don't use email, why are you using computers again?  And if you
> do, you've provided exactly this information to one or several email
> client programs.  Doing it once for sendmail lets any number of users
> run any number of email clients that just hand off to sendmail for
> delivery.
> 
>> But! Let's say for a moment we have it your way and give users a
>> chance to get e-mail notifications on their desktop. They'll only be
>> receiving a logwatch e-mail telling them a `df` or what packages they
>> installed from the latest Fedora update rollout -- I'm sure if I ran a
>> poll a majority would say this kind of e-mail is useless. Just open a
>> file browser to find free space.
> 
> You may not understand the value until your machine dies and you are
> curious about the warnings that preceded it (like smartctl screaming
> that your disk is not healthy) so you might avoid the problem next time.
>  If they've automatically been delivered to some other machine they will
> still be available when you decide they are important.
> 
>>> I don't know what you think 'normal' users do, but most of the point
>>> of having a computer is that it can do things for you automatically.
>>>
>>
>> sendmail is only utilized by logwatch through a default Fedora
>> install. Yes, lots of traditional unix programs used a MTA, but Fedora
>> doesn't install any of those.
> 
> Huh? I think you mean 'you' didn't install any of them - or you don't
> know that you did.
> 
>> Why should a default Fedora install user have to suffer just because
>> *you* want them started up?
> 
> An idle process hardly makes you suffer...
> 
>> I'm looking at the majority of users here. Simply because you use
>> sendmail to send you an email or atd to tell you to wake up in the
>> morning doesn't mean default Fedora install users use it. This kind of
>> elitist attitude does Fedora no good.
> 
> I don't think it is elitist to expect users to use the services of a
> unix like operating system.  Why else would they install it?
> 
This is scary - I am agreeing with Les for a change. I would add one
more point to this - the average Fedora is not the average Linux
user. It is probably one of the worst distributions for a new Linux
user. Between the short version life cycle, and trying out new ways
of doing things, you are expecting a lot from a new user. Add to
that the way updates sometimes break things, and you stand a good
chance of scaring someone that is moving to Linux from Windows back
into using Windows.

Mikkel
-- 

  Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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