State of sound in Linux not so sorry after all

[Bill Davidsen]

Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> Bill Davidsen wrote:
>> I think "Pulse Audio Guru" is a symptom of the problem as users see it.
>> We don't *want* to be gurus, or more to the point don't want to *need*
>> to be a guru to use sound. End users should *not* have to load one or
>> two non-default "advanced mixers" just to turn up the volume of their
>> speakers high enough to hear. They should not be fiddling with the
>> pulse/alsa/advanced controls trying to find some combination which works
>> for input. Inserting modules with options should not be the way you
>> select audio options.
>>
> Speak for yourself, not for other people. I think I qualify as a
> "user", and I manage to use Pulse Audio. I kind of dought I am the
> only one using it. I have run into a problem once or twice, but I
> EXPECT to run into problems with Fedora once in a while. If I didn't
> want to deal with them, I would switch to a more stable distribution.
> 
>> Under RH8 users could use audacity or the 'rec' part of sox to take
>> sound from mic or line input, set the sample rates, and write a wav
>> file. Under F11 I have yet (four systems) to find any one which will do
>> that, with any mix of interacting controls, with any application
>> including the "sound recorder" installed by default.
>>
>> Clearly in the rush to add fancy features for audiophiles the usability
>> of sound  has been devalued. Google for "sound problems + fedora" and
>> the volume of results for recent versions should convince you that there
>> is a usability problem. Sound should "just work" for the typical user,
>> and the people who want to do complex things should be using not complex
>> controls, not people who just want to hear sound.
>>
> Where do you think things like this should be experimented with? I
> thought Fedora was all about trying new things. Things that worked
> fine for the people running rawhide tend to break on some systems.
> The only way to find out is for a larger group to try it.
> 
> When you are talking about "the typical user", are you talking about
> the typical computer user, the typical Linux user, or the typical
> Fedora user? Somehow, I don't think the typical Fedora user would be
> a typical user in the other two groups. ;-)
> 
The user who wants to use the system without getting into source code. In my 
case the user who has now tried FC11 on four systems which will record sound and 
run sound apps using FC6, FC9, and/or FC10. And asking in various places gets 
told "it's your hardware, not Fedora compliant" or "it works for me" but never a 
hint why it stopped working, stopped being compliant, or why someone who can 
make other distros work can find no way to get any line or mic input connected 
to any recording or playing application.

The obvious explanation is that something is broken in FC11 which causes failure 
on many types of hardware (not all).

> With Fedora's short release and support cycle, I can not picture
> recommending it to someone that does not like to "tinker". Then
> again, I could not see myself running something like Mandriva on
> this machine...
> 
There is nothing to tinker *with*, if it doesn't work the alternative is do 
without sound input or use something else for a distro, since the real problem 
is that people pretend there is no problem, documentation is not needed, etc.

In previous releases I was able to select modes, mono, 2-ch, 4-ch, or 5.1, and 
on some system 7.1 and "surround" as well. None of the tools seem to offer those 
choices any more, and I can believe that the issue is that all the inputs have 
been made outputs by forcing 5.1 or 7.1. I just don't have any way to change 
that other than reinstalling an old release.

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen at tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot