From the top... how do I get sound working in F11 ?

[Bill Davidsen]

Craig White wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 19:34 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
>> Craig White wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 19:31 -0400, Bill Davidsen wrote:
>>>> If it doesn't work out of the box there are no tools to ever make it
>>>> work, which 
>>>> is why PA should be in the toybox, not the default.
>>> ----
>>> ignoring the reality that PA works for most people out of the box, I
>>> would agree with you but I can't ignore the reality. It works for me. It
>>> has worked for me on every computer I have installed Fedora on. It works
>>> for me on every computer I have installed Ubuntu on.
>>>
>> So tools to correct the cases which don't work out of the box and can't be made 
>> to work are not needed because it works most of the time? What do we need this 
>> Linux for anyway, after all Windows works most of the time...
> ----
> you make less sense every time you get deeper into this discussion.
> 
> If you think Windows is less trouble, you should use Windows. I don't
> have a problem with that.
> 
> If you think pulse audio is a problem, then don't use it. I have no
> problem with that.
> 
> pulse audio is little more than a collection layer for audio from
> various sources. I am fairly convinced that most of the griping I see on
> this list about pulse audio has less to do with pulse audio than people
> having trouble getting their Intel motherboard audio to work properly.
> Pulseaudio just seems to be a convenient spot to focus one's blame.
> 
When sound worked with FC4 and FC6 (and in some cases FC9) and no Intel boards 
are involved I think you're trying hard to sweep this udner the rug.

> I recognize that it is frustrating to have problems, even regressions
> with new releases of Fedora but you have to keep in mind that the
> kernel, the kernel modules and of course the underlying software is
> still in a rapid state of change and the way to make it work for
> yourself and everyone else behind you is to perform diligent bug
> reports.
> 
I keep in mind that this has been getting worse, not better, since PA was 
introduced. I care not that it exists, only that it is standard rather than some 
collection of optional stuff people can install if they need it.

> If you think that I don't understand these issues, I have had bug
> reports about not being able to boot Optiplex 320's via grub since
> Fedora 7.
> 
The problem with open source, when people have no reward for giving the user 
what they want rather than what the developer wants and taking the attitude that 
"it's free if you don't like it don't use it." Also the attitude that developers 
write code and lesser beings write documentation. PA is a solution most people 
don't need, in search of a problem most people don't have.

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen at tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot