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Re: State of sound in Linux not so sorry after all



On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Bill Davidsen<davidsen tmr com> wrote:
> Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>>
>> Bill Davidsen wrote:
>>>
>>> I think "Pulse Audio Guru" is a symptom of the problem as users see it.
>>> We don't *want* to be gurus, or more to the point don't want to *need*
>>> to be a guru to use sound. End users should *not* have to load one or
>>> two non-default "advanced mixers" just to turn up the volume of their
>>> speakers high enough to hear. They should not be fiddling with the
>>> pulse/alsa/advanced controls trying to find some combination which works
>>> for input. Inserting modules with options should not be the way you
>>> select audio options.
>>>
>> Speak for yourself, not for other people. I think I qualify as a
>> "user", and I manage to use Pulse Audio. I kind of dought I am the
>> only one using it. I have run into a problem once or twice, but I
>> EXPECT to run into problems with Fedora once in a while. If I didn't
>> want to deal with them, I would switch to a more stable distribution.
>>
>>> Under RH8 users could use audacity or the 'rec' part of sox to take
>>> sound from mic or line input, set the sample rates, and write a wav
>>> file. Under F11 I have yet (four systems) to find any one which will do
>>> that, with any mix of interacting controls, with any application
>>> including the "sound recorder" installed by default.
>>>
>>> Clearly in the rush to add fancy features for audiophiles the usability
>>> of sound  has been devalued. Google for "sound problems + fedora" and
>>> the volume of results for recent versions should convince you that there
>>> is a usability problem. Sound should "just work" for the typical user,
>>> and the people who want to do complex things should be using not complex
>>> controls, not people who just want to hear sound.
>>>
>> Where do you think things like this should be experimented with? I
>> thought Fedora was all about trying new things. Things that worked
>> fine for the people running rawhide tend to break on some systems.
>> The only way to find out is for a larger group to try it.
>>
>> When you are talking about "the typical user", are you talking about
>> the typical computer user, the typical Linux user, or the typical
>> Fedora user? Somehow, I don't think the typical Fedora user would be
>> a typical user in the other two groups. ;-)
>>
> The user who wants to use the system without getting into source code. In my
> case the user who has now tried FC11 on four systems which will record sound
> and run sound apps using FC6, FC9, and/or FC10. And asking in various places
> gets told "it's your hardware, not Fedora compliant" or "it works for me"
> but never a hint why it stopped working, stopped being compliant, or why
> someone who can make other distros work can find no way to get any line or
> mic input connected to any recording or playing application.
>
> The obvious explanation is that something is broken in FC11 which causes
> failure on many types of hardware (not all).
>
>> With Fedora's short release and support cycle, I can not picture
>> recommending it to someone that does not like to "tinker". Then
>> again, I could not see myself running something like Mandriva on
>> this machine...
>>
> There is nothing to tinker *with*, if it doesn't work the alternative is do
> without sound input or use something else for a distro, since the real
> problem is that people pretend there is no problem, documentation is not
> needed, etc.
>
> In previous releases I was able to select modes, mono, 2-ch, 4-ch, or 5.1,
> and on some system 7.1 and "surround" as well. None of the tools seem to
> offer those choices any more, and I can believe that the issue is that all
> the inputs have been made outputs by forcing 5.1 or 7.1. I just don't have
> any way to change that other than reinstalling an old release.


Have you tried simply removing PulseAudio?


-- 
Fedora 10
(www.pembo13.com)


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