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RE: fedora-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 162



Hello.

My name is wonjoon.
My e-mail address is ditrite pineone com 
This e-mail is my business mail. 
So I want unsubscribe.

Think you.

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Subject: fedora-list Digest, Vol 65, Issue 162

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: install F11 ON a USB-HDD,   ...  TERRIBLE (Daniel Kirsten)
   2. Help with update from F10 to F11 (Wade Hampton)
   3. Re: install F11 ON a USB-HDD,   ...  TERRIBLE
      (Mikkel L. Ellertson)
   4. Re: 64-bit LXDE spin/remix (Christoph Wickert)
   5. Re: Help with update from F10 to F11 (Kam Leo)
   6. Re: Package kit notification of uprade available (Claude Jones)
   7. update viewer: terrible user interface (imo) (Mike Wright)
   8. Re: Package kit notification of uprade available (Rahul Sundaram)
   9. Re: update viewer: terrible user interface (imo) (Rahul Sundaram)
  10. Re: install F11 ON a USB-HDD,   ...  TERRIBLE (Daniel Kirsten)
  11. Re: Ranter or evangelist? (gilpel altern org)
  12. GDM login using winbind (Jamie Wilch)
  13. 60% of Fedora packages obsolete (Arthur Pemberton)
  14. Re: 60% of Fedora packages obsolete (Rahul Sundaram)
  15. Re: 60% of Fedora packages obsolete (Arthur Pemberton)
  16. Re: 60% of Fedora packages obsolete (Todd Zullinger)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:16:50 +0200
From: "Daniel Kirsten" <Daniel Kirsten gmx net>
Subject: Re: install F11 ON a USB-HDD,   ...  TERRIBLE
To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using
	Fedora."	<fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <20090720181650 223060 gmx net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Dumb question - are you booting with the USB drive unplugged when
> you are working with the built-in drive? If not, boot without it
> plugged in so we can simplify the troubleshooting. I have not run
> into that error before.
> 
> Mikkel


I tried both,  it yields the same result.  I just see a blinking
cursor in text mode.

I repartioned and formatted the USB-drive.   At the moment,  I transfer 
all personal data from the built-in drive to the USB-drive.   
Tomorrow, I will try to reinstall F10 and restore my personal data.....



  
-- 
Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 -
sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:41:25 -0400
From: Wade Hampton <wadehamptoniv gmail com>
Subject: Help with update from F10 to F11
To: For users of Fedora <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
	<7a57ad2a0907201141t76d8e997w8d6b3da9a8dfacbe mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I am having a lot of problems with a system after
upgrading it from F10 to F11.  I need help to get this
formerly-stable system back.  Basically X is messed
up and I can't do yum updates.  This is my second
post on this issue.  Any help would be most appreciated.

Background:

On Saturday, I updated my son's Fedora 10 x86_64 system
to Fedora 11 using preupgrade.  All seemed to go well until it
tried to start X on the first boot.  Upon starting X, I saw a
white dash in the upper left and X never properly started.

I rebooted into single user mode, set run level to 3 and booted.
Now if I start X using startx, I lose my keyboard and mouse.  The
task bar shows a lot of applications starting. As I have no keyboard
nor mouse, all I can do is hit the power button and shutdown.
I have not tried ssh'ing to the box.

Note that after pressing the power button, several errors
were displayed including Nautilus having issues with Hal.

I tried using yum to update the box hoping this might fix
something, especially with the nvidia driver.  However, YUM
is broken.  It is failing with an error about file
/var/cache/yum/updates/metalink.xml missing.

 System is a Gateway AMD 9500 quad core
 Keyboard is PS/2.  Mouse is USB.
 Display is Nvidia 8600 GT PCI card.

Any help would be most appreciated as he really
wants his computer fixed.

Thanks,
--
Wade Hampton



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:45:15 -0500
From: "Mikkel L. Ellertson" <mikkel infinity-ltd com>
Subject: Re: install F11 ON a USB-HDD,   ...  TERRIBLE
To: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <4A64BB3B 8070301 infinity-ltd com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Daniel Kirsten wrote:
>> Dumb question - are you booting with the USB drive unplugged when
>> you are working with the built-in drive? If not, boot without it
>> plugged in so we can simplify the troubleshooting. I have not run
>> into that error before.
>>
>> Mikkel
> 
> 
> I tried both,  it yields the same result.  I just see a blinking
> cursor in text mode.
> 
> I repartioned and formatted the USB-drive.   At the moment,  I transfer 
> all personal data from the built-in drive to the USB-drive.   
> Tomorrow, I will try to reinstall F10 and restore my personal data.....
> 
Do an upgrade, not an install. (Upgrade to the same version.) The
installer will fix Grub as part of the install.

Just to make sure you are doing what I think you are doing, let me
give a quick outline.

Boot off the install for CD for the version of Linux on the internal
hard drive.
Pick Rescue an installed system.
Pick language and keyboard.
Let it mount the file systems.
Networking is not needed.
chroot /mnt/sysimage
grub-install /dev/sda
exit
exit

Mikkel
-- 

  Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:52:24 +0200
From: Christoph Wickert <christoph wickert googlemail com>
Subject: Re: 64-bit LXDE spin/remix
To: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <1248115944 2794 28 camel localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain

Am Donnerstag, den 16.07.2009, 04:03 +0530 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
> On 07/16/2009 03:52 AM, Globe Trotter wrote:

> > On a different note, is gnomebaker preferred over Xfburn? The latter
> seems smaller, certainly.

But Xfburn drags in a whole lot of Xfce dependencies: Thunar,
xfce4-panel, xfconf, libxfcegui4 and libxfce4util.

> Personally, I haven't had much experience with either of them. So can't
> really say. Xfburn used to crash and burn in the early releases but I
> haven't tried it recently.

Xfburn is pretty stable since 0.4, there is only one issue remaining:
Drag & Drop is not working with nautilus, works fine with Thunar or
PCManFM. Need to look at this further because it was fixed in Xfce's SVN
recently.

> Rahul

Regards,
Christoph



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:57:51 -0700
From: Kam Leo <kam leo gmail com>
Subject: Re: Help with update from F10 to F11
To: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
	<f84880b00907201157r3e44bbceod44c7e8ac98b7e80 mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Wade Hampton <wadehamptoniv gmail com>
wrote:
>
> I am having a lot of problems with a system after
> upgrading it from F10 to F11.  I need help to get this
> formerly-stable system back.  Basically X is messed
> up and I can't do yum updates.  This is my second
> post on this issue.  Any help would be most appreciated.
>
> Background:
>
> On Saturday, I updated my son's Fedora 10 x86_64 system
> to Fedora 11 using preupgrade.  All seemed to go well until it
> tried to start X on the first boot.  Upon starting X, I saw a
> white dash in the upper left and X never properly started.
>
> I rebooted into single user mode, set run level to 3 and booted.
> Now if I start X using startx, I lose my keyboard and mouse.  The
> task bar shows a lot of applications starting. As I have no keyboard
> nor mouse, all I can do is hit the power button and shutdown.
> I have not tried ssh'ing to the box.
>
> Note that after pressing the power button, several errors
> were displayed including Nautilus having issues with Hal.
>
> I tried using yum to update the box hoping this might fix
> something, especially with the nvidia driver.  However, YUM
> is broken.  It is failing with an error about file
> /var/cache/yum/updates/metalink.xml missing.
>
>  System is a Gateway AMD 9500 quad core
>  Keyboard is PS/2.  Mouse is USB.
>  Display is Nvidia 8600 GT PCI card.
>
> Any help would be most appreciated as he really
> wants his computer fixed.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Wade Hampton

Did you try "yum clean all"?

I have not had much success using preupgrade. Best bet is to download
either the net-install CD or the DVD and upgrade from either one.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:58:57 -0400
From: Claude Jones <cjoneslists tehogeeservices com>
Subject: Re: Package kit notification of uprade available
To: sundaram fedoraproject org, "Community assistance, encouragement,
	and advice for using Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <200907201459 07259 cjoneslists tehogeeservices com>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

On Mon July 20 2009 11:18:52 am Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > Maybe it's just me, but I cannot figure out how to file a
> > bug anymore.
>
> http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/yum

Rahul: I don't understand your reply. That seems to be a link to 
some administrator's section of the fedora project site where a 
list of yum bugs is displayed, none of which seem to pertain to 
the issue I'm raising, nor does there seem to be any path from 
that page to some meaningful help on filing a bugzilla report
-- 
Claude Jones
Brunswick, MD, USA



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:04:59 -0700
From: Mike Wright <mike wright mailinator com>
Subject: update viewer: terrible user interface (imo)
To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <4A64BFDB 70204 mailinator com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Hi all,

I posted about this many fedoras ago but apparently my plaint fell on 
deaf ears.

When I use the Update Viewer I am presented with several categories 
needing updating.  There is an option to review all or update all.

There is no option, for example, to update only security fixes.

This is what I think is an example of a hideous user experience:

I click on the icon that indicates updates are available and select 
"Show Updates".  Gee, there are only 300.  So I select "Review" and am 
now presented with 300 packages, each with a separate checkbox 
PREVIOUSLY SELECTED.  There is not even an option for "select all" or 
"deselect all".  You get them all, period.

There is no way to restrict the update process to only certain 
categories.  Instead I have the delightful prospect of scrolling and 
clicking, scrolling and clicking, scrolling and clicking until hell 
freezes over or my carpal tunnel syndrome becomes so inflamed that I'm 
not even able to touch a keyboard or mouse for days.

So, because of this incredibly retarded interface (from a usability 
point of view) we just have to bite the bullet and update all.

Now let's see what happens.  Something goes wrong.  Perhaps my system 
becomes unstable or networking goes on vacation or my sound disappears. 
  Wow!  I only have 300 packages and all their dependencies to sort 
through.  Guess what?  It ain't gonna happen.  You'll definitely get no 
feedback from me other than a rant that this process is so horribly 
borked as to preclude me from ever using this (it's not a bug it's a) 
feature.

So here's a question to the developers of the Updater.  Have any one of 
you ever gone through the update list and individually unchecked each of 
them?  I recommend it highly, *especially* when there are several 
hundred of them pending.  You may actually get a feeling for what you 
have inflicted on the rest of us.

Here's an analogy:  You go to the supermarket and take a shopping cart. 
  Surprise!  Surprise!  There is already one of everything in the store 
in the cart all ready for you to go through checkout and buy it all OR 
you can spend a leisurely day going through the aisles and returning 
everything you don't want to its appropriate place on the shelf.  I 
wonder when is the next time you'd go back to that store?  Yeah, me neither.

If Amazon's user interface worked that way they'd still be waiting for 
their first stooge ;D  And if I ever delivered an app' like that I'd be 
out of work :(

As was once observed, "A point in every direction is the same as no 
point at all".

Probably not worth $0.02 but I felt compelled to share my user 
experience and my thoughts about it.

Thanks for your time,
Mike Wright



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 00:37:11 +0530
From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram fedoraproject org>
Subject: Re: Package kit notification of uprade available
To: Claude Jones <cjoneslists tehogeeservices com>
Cc: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <4A64C05F 1010509 fedoraproject org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 07/21/2009 12:28 AM, Claude Jones wrote:
> On Mon July 20 2009 11:18:52 am Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>>> Maybe it's just me, but I cannot figure out how to file a
>>> bug anymore.
>>
>> http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/yum
> 
> Rahul: I don't understand your reply. That seems to be a link to 
> some administrator's section of the fedora project site where a 
> list of yum bugs is displayed, none of which seem to pertain to 
> the issue I'm raising, nor does there seem to be any path from 
> that page to some meaningful help on filing a bugzilla report

"Report a new bug against this package" is the first link.

Rahul



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 00:39:27 +0530
From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram fedoraproject org>
Subject: Re: update viewer: terrible user interface (imo)
To: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <4A64C0E7 9020800 fedoraproject org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 07/21/2009 12:34 AM, Mike Wright wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I posted about this many fedoras ago but apparently my plaint fell on
> deaf ears.

It is likely unless you report a bug or request a enhancement via
bugzilla that the responsible developers will not be even seeing your mail.

> 
> When I use the Update Viewer I am presented with several categories
> needing updating.  There is an option to review all or update all.
> 
> There is no option, for example, to update only security fixes.

Right click on the updates list and you will find two choices.
Unselecting all packages or installing only security updates. You can
set the preferences to only install security updates automatically as
well (gpk-preferences).

Rahul



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:15:05 +0200
From: "Daniel Kirsten" <Daniel Kirsten gmx net>
Subject: Re: install F11 ON a USB-HDD,   ...  TERRIBLE
To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using
	Fedora."	<fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <20090720191505 223050 gmx net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:45:15 -0500
> Von: "Mikkel L. Ellertson" <mikkel infinity-ltd com>
> An: "Community assistance, encouragement, 	and advice for using Fedora.
" <fedora-list redhat com>
> Betreff: Re: install F11 ON a USB-HDD,   ...  TERRIBLE

> Daniel Kirsten wrote:
> >> Dumb question - are you booting with the USB drive unplugged when
> >> you are working with the built-in drive? If not, boot without it
> >> plugged in so we can simplify the troubleshooting. I have not run
> >> into that error before.
> >>
> >> Mikkel
> > 
> > 
> > I tried both,  it yields the same result.  I just see a blinking
> > cursor in text mode.
> > 
> > I repartioned and formatted the USB-drive.   At the moment,  I transfer 
> > all personal data from the built-in drive to the USB-drive.   
> > Tomorrow, I will try to reinstall F10 and restore my personal data.....
> > 
> Do an upgrade, not an install. (Upgrade to the same version.) The
> installer will fix Grub as part of the install.

yes,  I did this before I read your mail.   Now,  I can boot again.
I just have to compile my own kernel and rework some stuff.

(When I installed F10,  I downgraded libdrm and some packages 
to get KDE running.   Of course, these packages are upgraded now. 
I will fix this tomorrow.)

Best regards, Daniel







> Just to make sure you are doing what I think you are doing, let me
> give a quick outline.
> 
> Boot off the install for CD for the version of Linux on the internal
> hard drive.
> Pick Rescue an installed system.
> Pick language and keyboard.
> Let it mount the file systems.
> Networking is not needed.
> chroot /mnt/sysimage
> grub-install /dev/sda
> exit
> exit

I tried, but it did not work.



-- 
Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3 -
sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:23:20 +0500 (GMT-5)
From: gilpel altern org
Subject: Re: Ranter or evangelist?
To: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <50522 216 239 79 247 1248121400 squirrel altern org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

On Mon, 2009-07-20 at 09:31 +0500, gilpel altern org wrote:
> It's really weird. I already said that you have a gift for explaining,
which means you're certainly not completely dumb. How come you can't
understand the importance of market share for Linux?

a. This is Linux, other than for the few for-sale distributions "market
share" is inappropriate terminology.

Indeed. "World domination fast" was a really bad joke:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=124

I'm sure people who are playing the game of reverse engineering the codecs
and making sure that everything works despite all Microsoft attempts (1)
will keep on doing so in another 18 years from now, even with only
0.0000...1% of people on the net using Linux.

(1) It's the first time ever that I can read MWV at Radio-Canada without
endless hassles.

Same goes for DeCss. There's absolutely no need to have people understand
what using "their Windows" really means. Windows is free, ins,T it: you
get it when you buy a computer! One wonders where Microsoft's billion$
come from.

And, of course, all state television will use open source formats.

Anyways, you couldn't care less since you watch video in binary format,
right?

Thanks for sharing your deep thoughts! I've had this discussion with happy
losers all too often. Enough for now.



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:59:28 -0600
From: Jamie Wilch <jamie wilch net>
Subject: GDM login using winbind
To: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <4A64CCA0 8030000 wilch net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello,

I am using winbind for user authentication against a Samba server.  The 
setup has worked fine from Fedora 9 & 10.  Just upgraded to 11 today and 
now when a user logs in through GDM, it complains of the nt password has 
expired and has the user change the password.  The password does 
successfully change on the server, but the client computer still cannot 
authorize user.  Only happens with graphical GDM login, ssh works fine. 
  I'm not sure where to begin looking.

Thanks
Jamie



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:06:24 -0500
From: Arthur Pemberton <pemboa gmail com>
Subject: 60% of Fedora packages obsolete
To: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
	<16de708d0907201306h199a1d30n73faa4160e215aac mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Article: http://oswatershed.org/

That's much higher than I would have guessed. I suppose Fedora is no
longer as fast paced as it used to be. Arch seems to be the innovating
distro now.

-- 
Fedora 10
(www.pembo13.com)



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:43:24 +0530
From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram fedoraproject org>
Subject: Re: 60% of Fedora packages obsolete
To: "Community assistance, encouragement,	and advice for using
	Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID: <4A64CFE4 3 fedoraproject org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 07/21/2009 01:36 AM, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> Article: http://oswatershed.org/
> 
> That's much higher than I would have guessed. I suppose Fedora is no
> longer as fast paced as it used to be. Arch seems to be the innovating
> distro now.

Not shipping the very latest in the "stable" release of Fedora is by no
means equivalent to obsolete. Arch is definitely more bleeding edge
being a rolling distribution however.

Rahul



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:27:54 -0500
From: Arthur Pemberton <pemboa gmail com>
Subject: Re: 60% of Fedora packages obsolete
To: sundaram fedoraproject org, "Community assistance, encouragement,
	and advice for using Fedora." <fedora-list redhat com>
Message-ID:
	<16de708d0907201327j5c791269vaf8f8a25c0bec21c mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Rahul
Sundaram<sundaram fedoraproject org> wrote:
> On 07/21/2009 01:36 AM, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>> Article: http://oswatershed.org/
>>
>> That's much higher than I would have guessed. I suppose Fedora is no
>> longer as fast paced as it used to be. Arch seems to be the innovating
>> distro now.
>
> Not shipping the very latest in the "stable" release of Fedora is by no
> means equivalent to obsolete. Arch is definitely more bleeding edge
> being a rolling distribution however.
>
> Rahul


I've always found that some Fedora policies are far from as bleeding
edge as observers would believe.

However, this seems to place Fedora in a weird position -- between
what most now consider to be the bleeding edge distro, Arch,. and what
many consider to be the stable distro, Ubuntu. What niche does fedora
intend to fullfill?

-- 
Fedora 10
(www.pembo13.com)



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:37:01 -0400
From: Todd Zullinger <tmz pobox com>
Subject: Re: 60% of Fedora packages obsolete
To: fedora-list redhat com
Message-ID: <20090720203701 GD4112 inocybe localdomain>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> However, this seems to place Fedora in a weird position -- between
> what most now consider to be the bleeding edge distro, Arch,. and
> what many consider to be the stable distro, Ubuntu. What niche does
> fedora intend to fullfill?

I don't know how relevant any of the data on oswatershed even is, but
I believe the Fedora and Red Hat continues to drive a lot of upstream
development.  That is much more important than who chucks the latest
build over the wall to users.

When the folks at Archlinux update to the latest release of some
project the day it comes out, they can often thank some Fedora
contributors for making the upstream release possible. :)

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Succumb to natural tendencies. Be hateful and boring.

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