From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Sat Apr 1 06:40:28 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 00:40:28 -0600 Subject: 7 proposals - was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Anaconda In-Reply-To: <20060331232234.84578.qmail@web38410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060331232234.84578.qmail@web38410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <442E205C.1080603@adelphia.net> Jane Dogalt wrote: >I see your patch, and I see that it's looking at the host system, but I don't >really understand why. > > Well, it was an example. >my proposal #1 (which I'm assuming is what your comments apply to), has nothing >to do with running from a livecd to install a system. It is soley about >running anaconda on some system (fc5 install, fc7 install, debian, customized >knoppix, anything), and generating a livecd .iso output from the input of a >fc5.iso, user-input, and optionally a kickstart and/or user payload. (just like >kadischi does now) > > The focus is to be able to kick out a LiveCD, and from a LiveCD do HDD installs. That is generally how Kadischi and Anaconda are related. I also don't think Debian or Knoppix package Anaconda, which would make running Anaconda from these systems a non-issue. I seriously doubt running from a Debian system if they did package Anaconda is even a factor. J. Hartline From jdogalt at yahoo.com Sat Apr 1 22:26:14 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 14:26:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: 7 proposals - was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Anaconda In-Reply-To: <442E205C.1080603@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20060401222614.89604.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- "J. Hartline" wrote: > I seriously doubt running from a Debian system if they did package > Anaconda is even a factor. Yeah, that was kind of a silly example. I was just trying to emphasize what IMO should be a clear distinction between the system hosting the livecd generator, and the system being created by it. Ideally I'd like to see the livecd generator run as a user (not-root), since if you think about it, generating the bits in the iso file shouldn't require root privs. But I admit it will be some time before that comes to bear. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Apr 1 23:33:29 2006 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 05:03:29 +0530 Subject: 7 proposals - was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Anaconda In-Reply-To: <442E205C.1080603@adelphia.net> References: <20060331232234.84578.qmail@web38410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <442E205C.1080603@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1143934409.3783.19.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> On Sat, 2006-04-01 at 00:40 -0600, J. Hartline wrote: > I seriously doubt running from a Debian system if they did package > Anaconda is even a factor. Progeny ported Anaconda to run on Debian systems. Everything is possible. Rahul From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Sun Apr 2 01:20:23 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 19:20:23 -0600 Subject: 7 proposals - was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Anaconda In-Reply-To: <20060401222614.89604.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060401222614.89604.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <442F26D7.7010205@adelphia.net> Jane Dogalt wrote: >Ideally I'd like to see the >livecd generator run as a user (not-root), since if you think about it, >generating the bits in the iso file shouldn't require root privs. But I admit >it will be some time before that comes to bear. > > I think it would be a bit before that is possible. There is too much within Anaconda (It's the installer, keep this in mind) that only root should be doing. A few examples of this are reading files in /proc/ mounting devices, making device nodes, making links in non world-writeable directories.. etc. I'm sure it could be done really-quick-like hacking it all to pieces, but this will never make it into Anaconda as a single piece. So.. anyhow I have kadischi.py now as a module within it contains definitions for fromStages1_2(), livecdFromSystem() and systemFromLivecd() which depend on the sysconfig file readonly-root and the file /.livecd to make these distinctions. In this can go most of the other functions that kadischi uses currently. To keep things "familiar" we also set "kadischi" as an installclass with it's respective gui and text modules called from gui.py and text.py. The cosmetics of it I think are another issue. We shouldn't be seeing "Would you like a live CD" screens during normal installations, which we don't using kadischi.fromStages1_2(). Any suggestions? J. Hartline From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Sun Apr 2 05:11:37 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 21:11:37 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues Message-ID: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> I've tried to create a 32bit LiveCd with a 32-bit repository on an x86_64 system a couple times and run into an error. After the isolinux prompt I get this: Uncompressing Linux... Ok, booting the kernel. powernow-k8: BIOS error - no PSB or ACPI _PSS objects Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(9,1) This is under vmware which works for running 32bit images created on a 32bit system. I haven't burned one of these disks to a CD yet. The first two lines are normal in that environment (running a LiveCD image generated on a 32bit box brings up those two lines.) But the next line is a sign that something is really not happy. I suspect that something in the 64 bit environment is being copied from the builder's hard drive to the LiveCd instead of coming from the 32bit packages in my repository. Is anyone else attempting to create 32bit ISOs on x86_64? Success or failure reports would help me zero in on the problems. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Sun Apr 2 09:10:37 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 04:10:37 -0500 Subject: 7 proposals - was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Anaconda In-Reply-To: <1143934409.3783.19.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> References: <20060331232234.84578.qmail@web38410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <442E205C.1080603@adelphia.net> <1143934409.3783.19.camel@sundaram.pnq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <442F950D.7010801@adelphia.net> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>I seriously doubt running from a Debian system if they did package >>Anaconda is even a factor. >> >> > >Progeny ported Anaconda to run on Debian systems. Everything is >possible. > > mm Ok. I still don't believe it is within the "namespace" if you will to cater to other operating systems. If for instance Debian packagers package new snapshots of Anaconda.. and Anaconda happens to have some Kadischi stuff built in if it doesn't work for Debian systems, I seriously doubt this is a priority. On the other hand, yes.. anything is possible. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Sun Apr 2 09:05:16 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 04:05:16 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> References: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <442F93CC.60609@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >Uncompressing Linux... Ok, booting the kernel. >powernow-k8: BIOS error - no PSB or ACPI _PSS objects >Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on >unknown-block(9,1) >[snip] >Success or >failure reports would help me zero in on the problems. > > Try the debug option, it should show you at which point it is failing. 9,0 is /dev/md0 here though. From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Sun Apr 2 17:12:04 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:12:04 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Anaconda In-Reply-To: <442F26D7.7010205@adelphia.net> References: <20060401222614.89604.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <442F26D7.7010205@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <443005E4.6050306@adelphia.net> J. Hartline wrote: > The cosmetics of it I think are another issue. > We shouldn't be seeing "Would you like a live CD" screens during > normal installations, which we don't > using kadischi.fromStages1_2(). Here are a few source files I have now, and some patches. This is bar far not a final draft, but if we can generate some heat with it now, it will save me or anyone time in who decides to contribute to making it happen. I especially do not like iutil.py patch, albeit I am doing this trying to disrupt as little of Anaconda's code as possible. The two functions in kadischi.py fromStages1_2() and livecdFromSystem(),systemFromLivecd() could probably be better. Unfortunately I'm not certain that you have anything definite to look for except what I have there, to determine if we are in stage 2, in which we don't want to appear. I also do not know Anaconda inside and out, therefore I'm sure I am replicating some functions it can do internally, like validifying the installation source exists. I did change flc_log from Kadischi to rhpl.log though. kadischi_text.py and kadischi_gui.py still have yet to be forged. I really haven't put much thought in kadischi.installSystemFromLiveCD() since iutil uses /dev/ to create nodes that would already exist. Likewise we need to have a partitioned disk and it be mounted proper under say /mnt/sysimage which is why we don't skip the steps in rootpath for disk partitioning. Have a look. Maybe someone can work off this same idea? Make it better no? J. Hartline -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: anaconda-kadischi-rough.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 11668 bytes Desc: not available URL: From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Mon Apr 3 17:13:32 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 10:13:32 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <442F93CC.60609@adelphia.net> References: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> <442F93CC.60609@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144084414.5614.8.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2006-04-02 at 04:05 -0500, J. Hartline wrote: > Try the debug option, it should show you at which point it is failing. > 9,0 is /dev/md0 here though. ACPI: (supports S0 S1 S5) md: Autodetecting RAID arrays. md: autorun ... md: ... autorun DONE. RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0 VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem). EXT2-fs: unable to read superblock isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=md1, iso_blknum=16, block=32 Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(9,1) Am I correctly interpreting that the failure is in mounting the initrd? -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 3 18:13:53 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:13:53 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> References: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604031113h18c67c1bm795f351910002616@mail.gmail.com> On 4/2/06, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > I've tried to create a 32bit LiveCd with a 32-bit repository on an > x86_64 system a couple times and run into an error. After the isolinux > prompt I get this: > > Uncompressing Linux... Ok, booting the kernel. > powernow-k8: BIOS error - no PSB or ACPI _PSS objects > Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on > unknown-block(9,1) > > This is under vmware which works for running 32bit images created on a > 32bit system. I haven't burned one of these disks to a CD yet. The > first two lines are normal in that environment (running a LiveCD image > generated on a 32bit box brings up those two lines.) But the next line > is a sign that something is really not happy. > > I suspect that something in the 64 bit environment is being copied from > the builder's hard drive to the LiveCd instead of coming from the 32bit > packages in my repository. > > Is anyone else attempting to create 32bit ISOs on x86_64? Success or > failure reports would help me zero in on the problems. > > -Toshio Vmplayer do sometimes behave like a fool. I'm experiencing randomly some failures during the booting process of the livecds. But when I burnt those isos, they worked just perfect. This is ofcourse my experience :) Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 3 18:15:23 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:15:23 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <442F93CC.60609@adelphia.net> References: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> <442F93CC.60609@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604031115i4a5fd8ccx3e1e2e25c2833682@mail.gmail.com> > Try the debug option, it should show you at which point it is failing. > 9,0 is /dev/md0 here though. Ill try to optimise the debug option, in a few months (<2), along its related documentation Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 3 18:18:33 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:18:33 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <1144084414.5614.8.camel@localhost> References: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> <442F93CC.60609@adelphia.net> <1144084414.5614.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604031118y2ec09a7cg8a62ab2d5dbe9421@mail.gmail.com> On 4/3/06, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Sun, 2006-04-02 at 04:05 -0500, J. Hartline wrote: > > Try the debug option, it should show you at which point it is failing. > > 9,0 is /dev/md0 here though. > > ACPI: (supports S0 S1 S5) > md: Autodetecting RAID arrays. > md: autorun ... > md: ... autorun DONE. > RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0 > VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem). > EXT2-fs: unable to read superblock > isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=md1, iso_blknum=16, block=32 > Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on > unknown-block(9,1) > > Am I correctly interpreting that the failure is in mounting the initrd? > > -Toshio > Talking about this, Ive a question!! Hyperthreading !!! I know that during an install, when Fedora identifies a system with hyperthreading option, It will choose the smp kernel. Does a Livecd built with Kadischi stall if it identifies this hyperthreading capability in a system ? -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Apr 3 18:34:02 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:34:02 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <1144084414.5614.8.camel@localhost> References: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> <442F93CC.60609@adelphia.net> <1144084414.5614.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <44316A9A.7050306@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >ACPI: (supports S0 S1 S5) >md: Autodetecting RAID arrays. >md: autorun ... >md: ... autorun DONE. >RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0 >VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem). >EXT2-fs: unable to read superblock >isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=md1, iso_blknum=16, block=32 >Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on >unknown-block(9,1) > >Am I correctly interpreting that the failure is in mounting the initrd? > > What kernel is this? Is it a Fedora kernel, if so what kernel release? From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Apr 3 18:36:11 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:36:11 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604031118y2ec09a7cg8a62ab2d5dbe9421@mail.gmail.com> References: <1143954698.3935.12.camel@localhost> <442F93CC.60609@adelphia.net> <1144084414.5614.8.camel@localhost> <13dbfe4f0604031118y2ec09a7cg8a62ab2d5dbe9421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44316B1B.4030007@adelphia.net> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >Talking about this, Ive a question!! > >Hyperthreading !!! >I know that during an install, when Fedora identifies a system with >hyperthreading option, It will choose the smp kernel. > >Does a Livecd built with Kadischi stall if it identifies this >hyperthreading capability in a system ? > > It shouldn't. It would be different if say, you installed an SMP kernel on a single processor or non HT machine. From a.badger at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 20:42:03 2006 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:42:03 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Cleanups to squashfs and selinux disabling Message-ID: A pair of patches to cleanup selinux disabling and adding squashfs modules to the initrd. These are based on an irc conversation with AutOPSY. kadischi-kmodules.patch: * kadischi.py: Install squashfs and loop modules insto the initrd only if we are building a squashfs image. This is passed via a KMODULES environment variable to livecd-mkinitrd.sh * livecd-mkinitrd.sh: Modify the module searching to use values passed via KMODULES kadischi-selinux.patch: * install-boot.sh: Remove the selinux=0 kernel parameter as we want a more generic and finer grained option for the future. * 04auth.sh: Use sed within the chroot to change the value of SELINUX= in /etc/selinux/config to 'disabled' When we have a filesystem that supports extended atributes, we can modify this behaviour by setting SELINUXSTATE to enforcing, permissive, etc. A similar method can be used to configure SELINUXTYPE (strict/targeted/mls) at that time as well. * 05fsclean.sh: Add .autorelabel to the list of files to remove. We can't relabel a read-only filesystem. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kadischi-kmodules.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 1381 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kadischi-selinux.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 2165 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 3 18:36:20 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <1144084414.5614.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20060403183620.33787.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Sun, 2006-04-02 at 04:05 -0500, J. Hartline wrote: > > Try the debug option, it should show you at which point it is failing. > > 9,0 is /dev/md0 here though. > > ACPI: (supports S0 S1 S5) > md: Autodetecting RAID arrays. > md: autorun ... > md: ... autorun DONE. > RAMDISK: Compressed image found at block 0 > VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem). > EXT2-fs: unable to read superblock > isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=md1, iso_blknum=16, block=32 > Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on > unknown-block(9,1) > > Am I correctly interpreting that the failure is in mounting the initrd? Certainly looks like it mounted the ext2, then was unable to read the superblock? Here are a couple thoughts I had while skimming livecd-mkinitrd.sh. 1) inst /sbin/busybox.anaconda should probably be inst $rootdir/sbin/busybox.anaconda (which would require it to be installed on the target system) 2) inst $INSTALLDIR/initrd/find-live-cd makes me think this could be your problem. I.e. this would appear to me to be (in your case) installing a find-live-cd binary which was compiled on a x86_64 system into an initrd which is meant to be run on a 32-bit system. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Apr 3 22:19:01 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 17:19:01 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Cleanups to squashfs and selinux disabling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44319F55.2000203@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >kadischi-kmodules.patch: >* kadischi.py: Install squashfs and loop modules insto the initrd only >if we are building a squashfs image. This is passed via a KMODULES >environment variable to livecd-mkinitrd.sh >* livecd-mkinitrd.sh: Modify the module searching to use values passed >via KMODULES > > I'll get these up sometime later, it isn't a big issue as modules aren't exactly huge nor are the loop nodes, but if we don't need them, we should'nt install them. :-P >kadischi-selinux.patch: >* install-boot.sh: Remove the selinux=0 kernel parameter as we want a >more generic and finer grained option for the future. >* 04auth.sh: Use sed within the chroot to change the value of SELINUX= >in /etc/selinux/config to 'disabled' When we have a filesystem that >supports extended atributes, we can modify this behaviour by setting >SELINUXSTATE to enforcing, permissive, etc. A similar method can be >used to configure SELINUXTYPE (strict/targeted/mls) at that time as >well. > > This probably won't be neccessary. We already have $kernel_params with selinux=0. What I was discussing about this being a bad idea is having selinux turned off in the debug option of the Isolinux configs. Which is how I modified this to be anyhow. The kernel parameter is much simpler. >* 05fsclean.sh: Add .autorelabel to the list of files to remove. We >can't relabel a read-only filesystem. > > This file isn't created by default that I can tell in particular, likewise in rc.sysinit if this file exists a relabel is tried else the file is touched which can't happen. In fact I've filed an RFE against initscripts some time agi regarding this issue the BZ entry is here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=181829 It is purely a cosmetic issue as far as I am concerned. I also do not know the progress of Stateless Linux at this point so I cannot speculate whether the RFE/bug has been ignored or considered and just no response for valid reasons. Of course the patch there doesn't apply if your root is not readonly, which is how Kadischi currently operates. >+### FIXME: > # We could eventually make this more useful, and maybe in another way. >-# With selinux=0 we shouldn't be having SELinux problems. >-# Likewise a firewall will exist unless we've used kickstart to disable it. >+# We can't depend on lokkit being present in our new install. The sed line should >+# allow us to take care of selinux configuration but we still need something to >+# change the firewall from the anaconda default. > > This is of course very "fuzzy" to me. With the way it is now, yes Anaconda will set a default set of firewall rules. The only way currently to alleviate this (Without disabling it completely) is to be using kickstart with the firewall options set in the ks.cfg. However, a better immediate approach to this I think is to chroot and run lokkit and (possibly) ntsysv during a post_install_script, say 07userconfig.sh after checking first if we are or aren't invoked using kickstart or cmdline. In either instance we should assume: 1) cmdline is non interactive of course, don't run lokkit or ntsysv. 2) kickstart ks.cfg should contain some firewall rules if the builder expects certain rules. Otherwise we run lokkit, and only if it exists, so it isn't required to successfully build a CD. What do you think about this instead? J. Hartline From a.badger at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 23:25:27 2006 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 16:25:27 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Cleanups to squashfs and selinux disabling In-Reply-To: <44319F55.2000203@adelphia.net> References: <44319F55.2000203@adelphia.net> Message-ID: On 4/3/06, J. Hartline wrote: > Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > >kadischi-kmodules.patch: > > > I'll get these up sometime later, it isn't a big issue as modules aren't > exactly huge nor are the > loop nodes, but if we don't need them, we should'nt install them. :-P > Yep :-) > >kadischi-selinux.patch: > >* install-boot.sh: Remove the selinux=0 kernel parameter as we want a > >more generic and finer grained option for the future. > >* 04auth.sh: Use sed within the chroot to change the value of SELINUX= > >in /etc/selinux/config to 'disabled' When we have a filesystem that > >supports extended atributes, we can modify this behaviour by setting > >SELINUXSTATE to enforcing, permissive, etc. A similar method can be > >used to configure SELINUXTYPE (strict/targeted/mls) at that time as > >well. > > > > > This probably won't be neccessary. We already have $kernel_params with > selinux=0. > What I was discussing about this being a bad idea is having selinux > turned off in the debug option of > the Isolinux configs. Which is how I modified this to be anyhow. The > kernel parameter is much simpler. > I moved the selinux configuration out of here onto the kernel commandline originally because I had to get rid of the dependency on lokkit (I'm creating a minimal CD and don't want lokkit on the CD.) After thinking about this further, it seemed the kernel's selinux=0 is not fine grained enough for our future needs. At some point we're going to have a compressed filesystem capable of storing selinux security labels. Then we'll want to be able to change the selinux state and selinux type when we create the image. > >* 05fsclean.sh: Add .autorelabel to the list of files to remove. We > >can't relabel a read-only filesystem. > > > > > This file isn't created by default that I can tell in particular, Hmm.. You're right. This is unnecessary then. > likewise in rc.sysinit > if this file exists a relabel is tried else the file is touched which > can't happen > In fact I've filed an RFE against initscripts some time agi regarding > this issue > the BZ entry is here: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=181829 > It is purely a cosmetic issue as far as I am concerned. > Okay. We'll wait for a fix from "upstream" Fedora. > >+### FIXME: > > # We could eventually make this more useful, and maybe in another way. > >-# With selinux=0 we shouldn't be having SELinux problems. > >-# Likewise a firewall will exist unless we've used kickstart to disable it. > >+# We can't depend on lokkit being present in our new install. The sed line should > >+# allow us to take care of selinux configuration but we still need something to > >+# change the firewall from the anaconda default. > > > > > This is of course very "fuzzy" to me. With the way it is now, yes > Anaconda will set a default set of firewall rules. > The only way currently to alleviate this (Without disabling it > completely) is to be using kickstart with the > firewall options set in the ks.cfg. However, a better immediate approach > to this I think is to chroot and run > lokkit and (possibly) ntsysv during a post_install_script, say > 07userconfig.sh after checking first if we > are or aren't invoked using kickstart or cmdline. In either instance we > should assume: > 1) cmdline is non interactive of course, don't run lokkit or ntsysv. > 2) kickstart ks.cfg should contain some firewall rules if the builder > expects certain rules. > Otherwise we run lokkit, and only if it exists, so it isn't required to > successfully build a CD. > > What do you think about this instead? > kadischi should allow creation time setting of firewall rules/system services without requiring the presence of advanced programs on the CD for space and in case the admin wants to limit the eases with which their end-users can reconfigure the system. lokkit and ntsysv will be excess baggage in a lot of cases but the function they perform at ISO build time is necessary. Currently, we're in the realm of one-offs where a custom post-install script can set these things up. Using a conditionalized chroot lokkit/ntsysv as you suggest would be better. Implementing this inside of kadischi (as the SELinux portion of this patch starts to do) gets us where we want to be but we have to implement it ourselves. Having lokkit and ntsysv run outside of the rootdir with a '--rootpath=/var/tmp/kadischi-root/' option would be ideal. -Toshio From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Apr 4 01:30:41 2006 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 18:30:41 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: <20060403183620.33787.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1144084414.5614.8.camel@localhost> <20060403183620.33787.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 4/3/06, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem). > > EXT2-fs: unable to read superblock > > isofs_fill_super: bread failed, dev=md1, iso_blknum=16, block=32 > > Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on > > unknown-block(9,1) > > > > Am I correctly interpreting that the failure is in mounting the initrd? > > Certainly looks like it mounted the ext2, then was unable to read the > superblock? > Err.. Right. That's what I meant :-) > Here are a couple thoughts I had while skimming livecd-mkinitrd.sh. > > 1) inst /sbin/busybox.anaconda should probably be inst > $rootdir/sbin/busybox.anaconda (which would require it to be installed on the > target system) > Bah -- Since kadischi knows the location of the repository, how about extracting busybox.anaconda from the repository rpm and inst'ing it? > 2) inst $INSTALLDIR/initrd/find-live-cd > > makes me think this could be your problem. I.e. this would appear to me to be > (in your case) installing a find-live-cd binary which was compiled on a x86_64 > system into an initrd which is meant to be run on a 32-bit system. > Well, you and AutOPSY both had the same idea. Unfortunately, it's not the problem. I replaced both find-live-cd and scanswap with i386 versions and I still get the same error. I've also burned an actual ISO and tried to boot that on a 32bit computer and received the same error. I'll try hacking something together for the busybox issue sometime tomorrow and see if that gets things resolved. In the meantime, I've filed the story thus far in bugzilla: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=187858 From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 4 02:09:36 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 19:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] x86_64 builder; 32-bit LiveCD issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060404020936.28929.qmail@web38411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > Here are a couple thoughts I had while skimming livecd-mkinitrd.sh. > > > > 1) inst /sbin/busybox.anaconda should probably be inst > > $rootdir/sbin/busybox.anaconda (which would require it to be installed on > the > > target system) > > > Bah -- Since kadischi knows the location of the repository, how about > extracting busybox.anaconda from the repository rpm and inst'ing it? Yup, an rpm -i --nodeps --noscripts --root=/tmppath oughtta do it. > > > 2) inst $INSTALLDIR/initrd/find-live-cd > > > > makes me think this could be your problem. I.e. this would appear to me to > be > > (in your case) installing a find-live-cd binary which was compiled on a > x86_64 > > system into an initrd which is meant to be run on a 32-bit system. > > > Well, you and AutOPSY both had the same idea. Unfortunately, it's not > the problem. I replaced both find-live-cd and scanswap with i386 > versions and I still get the same error. Yup, I think the answer here, would possibly be requiring a kadischi rpm to be available for the target arch in addition to the target arch's repository. Then an rpm call like the one above could be used to pull it. > > I've also burned an actual ISO and tried to boot that on a 32bit > computer and received the same error. I'll try hacking something > together for the busybox issue sometime tomorrow and see if that gets > things resolved. As you can guess, I chalk the above issues up to the same issue I've been harping on about the installer having many bugs(as I call them) pertaining to it's incorporating the host system's state (system files, hardware status) into the target system. I.e, I seriously doubt that enough (if any) focus has been put into seeing just how well behaved anaconda --rootpath will be when it is run on an x86_64 system, but with a 32bit repository intended for a 32bit system. Just speculation for now though. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From skunkworx at verizon.net Mon Apr 10 04:08:41 2006 From: skunkworx at verizon.net (Skunk Worx) Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:08:41 -0700 Subject: 7 proposals - was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Anaconda In-Reply-To: <20060331175936.70384.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060331175936.70384.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4439DA49.7060400@verizon.net> Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- "J. Hartline" wrote: > >> Hi. >> A few seem to be interested in getting Kadischi-like stuff fused with >> Anaconda. > > This sounds like me and one of my recent posts :) From what you wrote, I don't > think you understood what I meant, but then, thats why you asked for clarity. > So here is an attempt to outline what I meant, which actually covers a few > different proposals which don't need to all be taken together. > I think one of the proposals was something along the lines of providing "hd2iso" and "iso2hd" utilities. That would be a cool way to create bootable DVDs, bootable/restorable system backups, etc. Just my 2 c. --- John From katzj at redhat.com Mon Apr 10 15:20:34 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:20:34 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> References: <1143597740.30123.76.camel@localhost> <4429F550.9030602@adelphia.net> <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1144682434.3287.1.camel@aglarond.local> On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 22:04 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 20:47 -0600, J. Hartline wrote: > > It should be back up soon, as someone is working on that last I checked. > > > > If you need a snapshot there is one here: > > http://autopsy.thetabox.org/SOURCES > > dated 03272006. > > Thanks autopsy! > > Here's two patches. The first one enables squashfs. In order to use it > you invoke kadischi with the --filesystem option:: > > kadischi --filesystem=squashfs fc5-repo fedora.iso Realistically, something like a --filesystem is the wrong approach. If squashfs is "right", then we should go down that route. Trying to encode the differences between squashfs and zisofs is the path to madness. Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Mon Apr 10 15:26:18 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:26:18 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> References: <1143597740.30123.76.camel@localhost> <4429F550.9030602@adelphia.net> <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1144682778.3287.7.camel@aglarond.local> On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 22:04 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > * livecd-mkinitrd.sh: > - Create a /cdrom directory to mount the cdrom image to directly. > - Copy squashfs and loop modules to the initrd. > - Create loop[0-9] devices in the initrd. > * livecd-linuxrc: > - Mount the cd image onto /cdrom instead of /sysroot. > - If we're using squashfs, loopback mount it on /sysroot otherwise > bind mount the cdrom to /sysroot. We still need to stop creating our own initrd and be using the initramfs created by the stock mkinitrd and just do the necessary livecd changes with our own secondary initramfs that contains a replacement mkrootdev instead of using the nash built-in. I started on this before leaving on vacation, after I get a chance to sit at my desk later today, I'll send what I have. > * install-boot.sh: Add selinux=0 to the kernel commandline as neither > squashfs nor zisofs support selinux xattrs. I'd rather be handling this just by setting things in /etc/sysconfig/selinux. Managing kernel options is the road to pain. > * 04auth.sh: Comment out the lokkit call as this may not exist in the > install root. The selinux portion of this call is taken care of by > adding selinux=0 to the kernel commandlin. The firewall portion isn't. > And when we do add support for selinux the kernel commandline won't let > us choose between targetted/strict/other. So the correct fix for this > needs more thought. Lokkit really needs to be installed -- we all but count on it always being present with anaconda. Jeremy From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Mon Apr 10 17:28:57 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:28:57 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144682434.3287.1.camel@aglarond.local> References: <1143597740.30123.76.camel@localhost> <4429F550.9030602@adelphia.net> <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> <1144682434.3287.1.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1144690138.7532.37.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 11:20 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 22:04 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 20:47 -0600, J. Hartline wrote: > > > It should be back up soon, as someone is working on that last I checked. > > > > > > If you need a snapshot there is one here: > > > http://autopsy.thetabox.org/SOURCES > > > dated 03272006. > > > > Thanks autopsy! > > > > Here's two patches. The first one enables squashfs. In order to use it > > you invoke kadischi with the --filesystem option:: > > > > kadischi --filesystem=squashfs fc5-repo fedora.iso > > Realistically, something like a --filesystem is the wrong approach. If > squashfs is "right", then we should go down that route. Trying to > encode the differences between squashfs and zisofs is the path to > madness. Sure -- If someone says "do it", I'll submit a patch to remove the special-casing for zisofs :-) It already makes me uncomfortable that I test the squashfs case but not zisofs. It could be helpful if people test squashfs vs zisofs and see if there's any time when squashfs doesn't generate faster/smaller/"better" CD images; then it would be a no-brainer to remove the less performant filesystem. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Mon Apr 10 17:34:41 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:34:41 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144682778.3287.7.camel@aglarond.local> References: <1143597740.30123.76.camel@localhost> <4429F550.9030602@adelphia.net> <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> <1144682778.3287.7.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1144690481.7532.45.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 11:26 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 22:04 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > * livecd-mkinitrd.sh: > > - Create a /cdrom directory to mount the cdrom image to directly. > > - Copy squashfs and loop modules to the initrd. > > - Create loop[0-9] devices in the initrd. > > * livecd-linuxrc: > > - Mount the cd image onto /cdrom instead of /sysroot. > > - If we're using squashfs, loopback mount it on /sysroot otherwise > > bind mount the cdrom to /sysroot. > > We still need to stop creating our own initrd and be using the initramfs > created by the stock mkinitrd and just do the necessary livecd changes > with our own secondary initramfs that contains a replacement mkrootdev > instead of using the nash built-in. I started on this before leaving on > vacation, after I get a chance to sit at my desk later today, I'll send > what I have. > Send it and I'll get familiar with it :-) > > * install-boot.sh: Add selinux=0 to the kernel commandline as neither > > squashfs nor zisofs support selinux xattrs. > > I'd rather be handling this just by setting things > in /etc/sysconfig/selinux. Managing kernel options is the road to pain. > Yes -- I sent a new patch that uses sed to make these changes. Jasper disagreed with that approach however and thinks the kernel commandline is better :-) I'm sure you'll get to that set of patches later in your catch-up-with-email-backlog and can weigh in. > > * 04auth.sh: Comment out the lokkit call as this may not exist in the > > install root. The selinux portion of this call is taken care of by > > adding selinux=0 to the kernel commandlin. The firewall portion isn't. > > And when we do add support for selinux the kernel commandline won't let > > us choose between targetted/strict/other. So the correct fix for this > > needs more thought. > > Lokkit really needs to be installed -- we all but count on it always > being present with anaconda. Currently anaconda doesn't error out if lokkit is not present -- are the errors discarded but present? My thinking is that requiring lokkit in the CD is less than ideal. It is being required by the installer but may not be required or wanted for the end-use of the CD. A better approach is to modify lokkit to work with an alternate rootpath so it updates the configuration in the built-image instead of the image it is running on. Then anaconda or kadischi could call "lokkit --rootpath /var/www/kadischi-image --setup-my-firewall-and-selinux" to modify the new image rather than the system it is running on. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From katzj at redhat.com Mon Apr 10 18:28:59 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:28:59 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144690138.7532.37.camel@localhost> References: <1143597740.30123.76.camel@localhost> <4429F550.9030602@adelphia.net> <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> <1144682434.3287.1.camel@aglarond.local> <1144690138.7532.37.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1144693739.3287.17.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 10:28 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 11:20 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 22:04 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > On Tue, 2006-03-28 at 20:47 -0600, J. Hartline wrote: > > > > It should be back up soon, as someone is working on that last I checked. > > > > > > > > If you need a snapshot there is one here: > > > > http://autopsy.thetabox.org/SOURCES > > > > dated 03272006. > > > > > > Thanks autopsy! > > > > > > Here's two patches. The first one enables squashfs. In order to use it > > > you invoke kadischi with the --filesystem option:: > > > > > > kadischi --filesystem=squashfs fc5-repo fedora.iso > > > > Realistically, something like a --filesystem is the wrong approach. If > > squashfs is "right", then we should go down that route. Trying to > > encode the differences between squashfs and zisofs is the path to > > madness. > > Sure -- If someone says "do it", I'll submit a patch to remove the > special-casing for zisofs :-) It already makes me uncomfortable that I > test the squashfs case but not zisofs. > > It could be helpful if people test squashfs vs zisofs and see if there's > any time when squashfs doesn't generate faster/smaller/"better" CD > images; then it would be a no-brainer to remove the less performant > filesystem. The one thing that's "better" about zisofs is that it's transparent and you don't have to do any shenanigans with a loopback mount. Jeremy From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 10 18:39:36 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144693739.3287.17.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20060410183936.63553.qmail@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > The one thing that's "better" about zisofs is that it's transparent and > you don't have to do any shenanigans with a loopback mount. Good usage of quotes there. Have you been hacking initrd/ramfs's too much lately? Love the loopback. It is your friend :) -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Mon Apr 10 19:53:46 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:53:46 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144693739.3287.17.camel@aglarond.local> References: <1143597740.30123.76.camel@localhost> <4429F550.9030602@adelphia.net> <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> <1144682434.3287.1.camel@aglarond.local> <1144690138.7532.37.camel@localhost> <1144693739.3287.17.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <1144698828.7532.53.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 14:28 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 10:28 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > Sure -- If someone says "do it", I'll submit a patch to remove the > > special-casing for zisofs :-) It already makes me uncomfortable that I > > test the squashfs case but not zisofs. > > > > It could be helpful if people test squashfs vs zisofs and see if there's > > any time when squashfs doesn't generate faster/smaller/"better" CD > > images; then it would be a no-brainer to remove the less performant > > filesystem. > > The one thing that's "better" about zisofs is that it's transparent and > you don't have to do any shenanigans with a loopback mount. Patch attached that removes the option to use zisofs. Additionally: * livecd-linuxrc: - Mount the squashfs with -oro to cleanup a warning message. * kadischi.1: - Document the requirement on mksquashfs instead of mkzftree. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kadischi-squash-only.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 5653 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 10 18:18:09 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144682434.3287.1.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20060410181809.63769.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > Realistically, something like a --filesystem is the wrong approach. If > squashfs is "right", then we should go down that route. Trying to > encode the differences between squashfs and zisofs is the path to > madness. I respectfully disagree. An alternate suggestion would be to standardize on filesystem images living on the iso. I.e. currently the choice is between a 'native' zisofs, and a squashfs image. If say, the choice was between a zisofs image, a squashfs image, and an ext2 image, then the user would have a nice set of options. If in addition you go down the route of unionfs rather than readonly-root and bindmounting, then you have a solution in which even selinux is an option. I think you might have mentioned a problem with ext2 and cdrom 2k block size. I strongly suspect that if that is a problem, it's not a problem when you put the ext2 filesystem on an image file which lives in an iso. Having a case/switch statement use alternate tools to mk*fs the image, and then having the initrd mount the right type of filesystem really isn't that ugly at all. To evangelize unionfs one step further (and competely orthogonal to the rest of this post), one could seperate the system image into two parts. a) those parts that have been profiled as being used during boot and initial login. and b) the rest. Then if you have seperate fs images for those parts, and store them on the cdrom, you should get improved boot speed, because of less seek thrashing during boot. For more bonus, you get mkisofs to put the boot files on the outer tracks, to possibly get that extra 5%. I'll go ahead and do a proof of concept on this if no one else is interested. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 10 18:34:46 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 7 proposals - was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Anaconda In-Reply-To: <4439DA49.7060400@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20060410183446.13664.qmail@web38411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Skunk Worx wrote: > I think one of the proposals was something along the lines of providing > "hd2iso" and "iso2hd" utilities. That would be a cool way to create > bootable DVDs, bootable/restorable system backups, etc. > Actually that wasn't really one of my 7 props, or it was buried deep and not quite in that form. But I'll take the credit if you insist ;). Backups at least, I was not considering at all. But now that I look at your utility names, and think about writable hd-dvd capacities, I definately want those type of lightweight utilities (eventually). -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Mon Apr 10 21:40:23 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:40:23 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <20060410181809.63769.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060410181809.63769.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1144705223.7532.71.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 11:18 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > > > > Realistically, something like a --filesystem is the wrong approach. If > > squashfs is "right", then we should go down that route. Trying to > > encode the differences between squashfs and zisofs is the path to > > madness. > > I respectfully disagree. An alternate suggestion would be to standardize on > filesystem images living on the iso. I.e. currently the choice is between a > 'native' zisofs, and a squashfs image. What is the advantage to the end user of a zisofs image to the consumer of the liveCD? The loopback complexity is handles by kadischi, so that doesn't count. If there is no benefit, then it is a problem to maintain the extra code path -- No active developers will be using (and therefore testing) the sub-optimal code but users who do will uncover bugs that then have to be fixed. > If say, the choice was between a zisofs > image, a squashfs image, and an ext2 image, then the user would have a nice set > of options. If in addition you go down the route of unionfs rather than > readonly-root and bindmounting, then you have a solution in which even selinux > is an option. > If ext2 gives us selinux capability and is generally better than squashfs, then we can replace squashfs with ext2. If ext2 adds selinux and is otherwise inferior to squashfs we can revisit maintaining two filesystems. > I think you might have mentioned a problem with ext2 and cdrom 2k block size. > I strongly suspect that if that is a problem, it's not a problem when you put > the ext2 filesystem on an image file which lives in an iso. > > Having a case/switch statement use alternate tools to mk*fs the image, and then > having the initrd mount the right type of filesystem really isn't that ugly at > all. > Having to test and maintain a code path that provides no advantages is the real problem. The fact that it is ugly is just icing on the cake. > To evangelize unionfs one step further (and competely orthogonal to the rest of > this post), one could seperate the system image into two parts. > > a) those parts that have been profiled as being used during boot and initial > login. > > and > > b) the rest. > > Then if you have seperate fs images for those parts, and store them on the > cdrom, you should get improved boot speed, because of less seek thrashing > during boot. For more bonus, you get mkisofs to put the boot files on the > outer tracks, to possibly get that extra 5%. > > I'll go ahead and do a proof of concept on this if no one else is interested. Please do. I'm interested in seeing this in action but X autodetection and modifying lokkit come before that on my schedule. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 11 01:26:46 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144705223.7532.71.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20060411012646.18803.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 11:18 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > > > > > > > Realistically, something like a --filesystem is the wrong approach. If > > > squashfs is "right", then we should go down that route. Trying to > > > encode the differences between squashfs and zisofs is the path to > > > madness. > > > > I respectfully disagree. An alternate suggestion would be to standardize > on > > filesystem images living on the iso. I.e. currently the choice is between > a > > 'native' zisofs, and a squashfs image. > What is the advantage to the end user of a zisofs image to the consumer > of the liveCD? The loopback complexity is handles by kadischi, so that > doesn't count. If there is no benefit, then it is a problem to maintain > the extra code path -- No active developers will be using (and therefore > testing) the sub-optimal code but users who do will uncover bugs that > then have to be fixed. see below > > > If say, the choice was between a zisofs > > image, a squashfs image, and an ext2 image, then the user would have a nice > set > > of options. If in addition you go down the route of unionfs rather than > > readonly-root and bindmounting, then you have a solution in which even > selinux > > is an option. > > > If ext2 gives us selinux capability and is generally better than > squashfs, then we can replace squashfs with ext2. If ext2 adds selinux > and is otherwise inferior to squashfs we can revisit maintaining two > filesystems. I suppose my opinion is that it is a trivial complexity addition, one which kadischi currently possesses (though it could be 'cleaner'), and why revisit later, when we can just clean up and extend what is currently there? I don't think kadischi is yet in any kind of state where we should be worried too much about "the" optimal solution. I think kadischi is still barely in the experimental state where we need to find out what "the" optimal solution is, or whether or not the optimal solution is to have a trivial additional user option, which facilitates the easy evaluation and comparison of various alternatives. Obviously ext2 is never going to beat squashfs on size. One would guess uncompressed it would win on speed. Clearly at the moment it's the only one that supports xattrs. Then throw in that you can (I think) run it on top of cloop as yet another option. I think that kadischi should be a flexible tool that is widely used. I.e. we should be seeing at least dozens of publicized kadischi-generated livecd 'tools' out there, just like one can see dozens of knoppix derivatives. To be that, I think we need to give the user some options for tradeoffs that may make sense in their particular case. Some may need selinux and can live with less compression, others may want to use squashfs for size, and still others may want to use isofs and/or zisofs in order to allow system files to be directly visibly on the cdrom (ok, so I just added more complexity to not throw away the non-loopback mounted case, but you know what- I think end-users will appreciate the choice). > > > I think you might have mentioned a problem with ext2 and cdrom 2k block > size. > > I strongly suspect that if that is a problem, it's not a problem when you > put > > the ext2 filesystem on an image file which lives in an iso. > > > > Having a case/switch statement use alternate tools to mk*fs the image, and > then > > having the initrd mount the right type of filesystem really isn't that ugly > at > > all. > > > Having to test and maintain a code path that provides no advantages is > the real problem. The fact that it is ugly is just icing on the cake. Ugly is ... I'll hold my forked tongue on that one for now ;) The advantages I've laid out above. Give the user choice. Make it easy to plug in, test, and compare supertinycramfs-7.0 when it gets invented next year. > > > To evangelize unionfs one step further (and competely orthogonal to the > rest of > > this post), one could seperate the system image into two parts. > > > > a) those parts that have been profiled as being used during boot and > initial > > login. > > > > and > > > > b) the rest. > > > > Then if you have seperate fs images for those parts, and store them on the > > cdrom, you should get improved boot speed, because of less seek thrashing > > during boot. For more bonus, you get mkisofs to put the boot files on the > > outer tracks, to possibly get that extra 5%. > > > > I'll go ahead and do a proof of concept on this if no one else is > interested. > > Please do. I'm interested in seeing this in action but X autodetection > and modifying lokkit come before that on my schedule. Thanks. I'm just throwing out ideas here. Code beauty lies in the eye of the programmer. I agree that X autodetection and sane firewall config options are a higher priority than this. My vision is for the months ahead here, not just tomorrow and next week. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Tue Apr 11 04:30:16 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:30:16 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <20060411012646.18803.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060411012646.18803.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1144729816.7430.39.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 18:26 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 11:18 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > > If say, the choice was between a zisofs > > > image, a squashfs image, and an ext2 image, then the user would have a nice > > set > > > of options. If in addition you go down the route of unionfs rather than > > > readonly-root and bindmounting, then you have a solution in which even > > selinux > > > is an option. > > > > > If ext2 gives us selinux capability and is generally better than > > squashfs, then we can replace squashfs with ext2. If ext2 adds selinux > > and is otherwise inferior to squashfs we can revisit maintaining two > > filesystems. > > I suppose my opinion is that it is a trivial complexity addition, one which > kadischi currently possesses (though it could be 'cleaner'), and why revisit > later, when we can just clean up and extend what is currently there? > > I don't think kadischi is yet in any kind of state where we should be worried > too much about "the" optimal solution. I think kadischi is still barely in the > experimental state where we need to find out what "the" optimal solution is, or > whether or not the optimal solution is to have a trivial additional user > option, which facilitates the easy evaluation and comparison of various > alternatives. > Sure, but we do need to worry about it working. If zisofs has significant features that squashfs lacks and vice versa then I can see supporting both at this stage. If not, then keeping a filesystem that provides no real advantages means we have a code path in kadischi that few, if any, developers are going to want to test thoroughly and bugfix. This leads to non-working code later. > Obviously ext2 is never going to beat squashfs on size. One would guess > uncompressed it would win on speed. You'd want to benchmark this -- CDRoms are pretty slow media so it could be that squashfs is faster for our use case as well. > Clearly at the moment it's the only one > that supports xattrs. Yep. And If someone wants to make ext2 images work with kadischi, the code to support multiple filesystems can be written to support ext2 and squashfs. If it's still applicable, it can be revived from the cvs repository. Depending on how long before someone adds it, it may be that all of the code has gone through several rewrites since then. > Then throw in that you can (I think) run it on top of > cloop as yet another option. > Hmmm... cloop's source repository is currently down so I cna't look itno it: http://developer.linuxtag.net/knoppix/sources/ Since it's not in the mainline kernel, someone has to package it for Fedora Extras. I'm not sure that cloop by itself will provide us with something better than squashfs. But if cloop + ext2 is the best way to get compression and SELinux, then it would make sense for now. OTOH, someone may decide to add xattrs to squashfs in which case I'd ask again, what does ext2 do better than squashfs? > I think that kadischi should be a flexible tool that is widely used. I.e. we > should be seeing at least dozens of publicized kadischi-generated livecd > 'tools' out there, just like one can see dozens of knoppix derivatives. To be > that, I think we need to give the user some options for tradeoffs that may make > sense in their particular case. Some may need selinux and can live with less > compression, others may want to use squashfs for size, and still others may > want to use isofs and/or zisofs in order to allow system files to be directly > visibly on the cdrom (ok, so I just added more complexity to not throw away the > non-loopback mounted case, but you know what- I think end-users will appreciate > the choice). > I agree that having options for tradeoffs make sense. And I think that in the absence of xattrs in squashfs, ext2's SELinux support is a big feature that can be seen in this light. I haven't seen the same kind of compelling reason for zisofs. To the end-user booting the LiveCD the non-loopback case isn't going to be visible. To the creator, kadischi hides the complexity for either case. Most developers wanting to peer inside the ISO from outside the LiveCD environment are going to be able to mount the filesystem and will be willing to do that for the superior performance that squashfs gives. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Tue Apr 11 05:43:54 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:43:54 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation Message-ID: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> Hello, I am following the list and wanted to try kadischi yesterday. After creating the repo the installation went fine, it printed: anaconda has finished the job and now python is consuming 100% CPU, but I can't find any information what it is doing. Have I missed something important? Regards, Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 11 06:06:32 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 01:06:32 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <20060411012646.18803.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060411012646.18803.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <443B4768.3010001@adelphia.net> Jane Dogalt wrote: >Thanks. I'm just throwing out ideas here. Code beauty lies in the eye of the >programmer. I agree that X autodetection and sane firewall config options are >a higher priority than this. My vision is for the months ahead here, not just >tomorrow and next week. > > What does X autodetection mean? X is X. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 11 06:10:24 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 01:10:24 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144729816.7430.39.camel@localhost> References: <20060411012646.18803.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1144729816.7430.39.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <443B4850.9020800@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >OTOH, someone may decide to add xattrs to squashfs in which case I'd ask >again, what does ext2 do better than squashfs? > > Ideally a SquashFS that supports xattrs is what we want/need. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 11 06:15:20 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 01:15:20 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation In-Reply-To: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >Hello, > >I am following the list and wanted to try kadischi yesterday. > >After creating the repo the installation went fine, it printed: >anaconda has finished the job > >and now python is consuming 100% CPU, but I can't find any information >what it is doing. > >Have I missed something important? > > Kadischi would be creating a compressed duplicate of the installation. mkzisofs, mksquashfs, and mkisofs take a fair amount of time. From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 11 05:27:21 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] usefulness of non-zisofs, 'dual booting' scenarios In-Reply-To: <1144729816.7430.39.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20060411052721.42779.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > I agree that having options for tradeoffs make sense. And I think that > in the absence of xattrs in squashfs, ext2's SELinux support is a big > feature that can be seen in this light. I haven't seen the same kind of > compelling reason for zisofs. To the end-user booting the LiveCD the > non-loopback case isn't going to be visible. To the creator, kadischi > hides the complexity for either case. Most developers wanting to peer > inside the ISO from outside the LiveCD environment are going to be able > to mount the filesystem and will be willing to do that for the superior > performance that squashfs gives. The motivation I see for wanting to add regular old iso as an option (not even zisofs) is for the user to see files in the iso. And rather, the user (of kadischi)'s users. I.e. imagine that Chitlesh has his marketing videos (and other media/material) in the generated CD. You might want to include a simple autorun.inf so that when the cd/dvd is inserted in a windows machine, it automatically launches a web browser with links to thumbnails of the video, and a webpage touting what this livecd can do. Along with the livecd's instruction manual. When actually _booted_, these same files are launched in a full screen webbrowser immediately after gdm autologin. This way, at a trade show, you can hand the dvd to a non-techie-non-linux suit&tie type, and tell them it will launch an info page in a browser if they put it in their microsoft box. If you really want to be slick, you even include a run-from-cd installation of firefox-win32 and qemu-win32(or vmware), and then people can even choose to run your appliance-cd purely from within windows. At least just to demonstrate. You reiterate that it will run faster if you actually boot from it. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Tue Apr 11 06:41:10 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:41:10 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation In-Reply-To: <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> References: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144737670.7360.30.camel@schaefei01> Hello Jaspar, Am Dienstag, den 11.04.2006, 01:15 -0500 schrieb Jasper O'neal Hartline: > Kadischi would be creating a compressed duplicate of the installation. > mkzisofs, mksquashfs, and mkisofs take a fair amount of time. Thanks for your fast reply. Wouldn't all these processes make some traces in the system like logfiles, temporary files and so on? Or is anything done in memory? (This machine has 6G of it, with currently 4,5 G used.) Installation time from anaconda was 13 minutes, there are 2x3,2 GHz Xeon processors in it and it does not do anything else now. Top reports python with 100% cpu and 100 minutes cpu time being the number one, idle percentage around 75 to 99 Of course I will wait, but I expected some progress indicator anywhere, at least in disk usage or something like that. Kind Regards, Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 11 07:33:35 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 02:33:35 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] usefulness of non-zisofs, 'dual booting' scenarios In-Reply-To: <20060411052721.42779.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060411052721.42779.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <443B5BCF.8070909@adelphia.net> Jane Dogalt wrote: >I.e. imagine that Chitlesh has his marketing videos (and other media/material) >in the generated CD. You might want to include a simple autorun.inf so that >when the cd/dvd is inserted in a windows machine, it automatically launches a >web browser with links to thumbnails of the video, and a webpage touting what >this livecd can do. Along with the livecd's instruction manual. > >When actually _booted_, these same files are launched in a full screen >webbrowser immediately after gdm autologin. > >This way, at a trade show, you can hand the dvd to a non-techie-non-linux >suit&tie type, and tell them it will launch an info page in a browser if they >put it in their microsoft box. > >If you really want to be slick, you even include a run-from-cd installation of >firefox-win32 and qemu-win32(or vmware), and then people can even choose to run >your appliance-cd purely from within windows. At least just to demonstrate. >You reiterate that it will run faster if you actually boot from it. > > This is a likely scenario with an Official forged Fedora Core LiveCD or DVD. Not a Kadischi CD in my opinion. The bootsplash stuff is there to distinguish where and from how the disc came about. Promotional materials and other specific things like that should be distributed with an official disc, not these user-made CDs. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 11 07:36:10 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 02:36:10 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation In-Reply-To: <1144737670.7360.30.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> <1144737670.7360.30.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <443B5C6A.9090506@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >Top reports python with 100% cpu and 100 minutes cpu time being the >number one, idle percentage around 75 to 99 > >Of course I will wait, but I expected some progress indicator anywhere, >at least in disk usage or something like that. > > There is a possible loop determining the kernel version. Can you say what kernel is or isn't being installed, and if there is more than one? Alot more information would be neccessary to come close to a plausible explanation. J. Hartline From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Tue Apr 11 07:56:29 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:29 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation In-Reply-To: <443B5C6A.9090506@adelphia.net> References: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> <1144737670.7360.30.camel@schaefei01> <443B5C6A.9090506@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144742189.7360.41.camel@schaefei01> Hallo Jasper, Am Dienstag, den 11.04.2006, 02:36 -0500 schrieb Jasper O'neal Hartline: > There is a possible loop determining the kernel version. > Can you say what kernel is or isn't being installed, and if there is > more than one? Doing a rpm rpm --root=/tmp/livecd-build_no4/system/ -qa kernel gives kernel-2.6.15-1.2054_FC5 This matches to the files in /tmp/livecd-build_no4/system/boot and lib/modules there. > Alot more information would be neccessary to come close to a plausible > explanation. I will really try to give all information needed. Thanks in Advance Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 11 08:29:58 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:29:58 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144698828.7532.53.camel@localhost> References: <1143597740.30123.76.camel@localhost> <4429F550.9030602@adelphia.net> <1143612261.3205.29.camel@localhost> <1144682434.3287.1.camel@aglarond.local> <1144690138.7532.37.camel@localhost> <1144693739.3287.17.camel@aglarond.local> <1144698828.7532.53.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <443B6906.5000409@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >Patch attached that removes the option to use zisofs. Additionally: > >* livecd-linuxrc: > - Mount the squashfs with -oro to cleanup a warning message. >* kadischi.1: > - Document the requirement on mksquashfs instead of mkzftree. > > Committed. Thanks. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 11 09:09:53 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:09:53 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation In-Reply-To: <1144742189.7360.41.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> <1144737670.7360.30.camel@schaefei01> <443B5C6A.9090506@adelphia.net> <1144742189.7360.41.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <443B7261.6090706@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >Doing a rpm rpm --root=/tmp/livecd-build_no4/system/ -qa kernel gives >kernel-2.6.15-1.2054_FC5 > >This matches to the files in /tmp/livecd-build_no4/system/boot and >lib/modules there. > > Sounds like you are getting a uniprocessor kernel installed, and Kadischi detects an SMP system. J. Hartline From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Tue Apr 11 09:23:03 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:23:03 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation In-Reply-To: <443B7261.6090706@adelphia.net> References: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> <1144737670.7360.30.camel@schaefei01> <443B5C6A.9090506@adelphia.net> <1144742189.7360.41.camel@schaefei01> <443B7261.6090706@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144747383.7360.49.camel@schaefei01> Hello Jasper, Am Dienstag, den 11.04.2006, 04:09 -0500 schrieb Jasper O'neal Hartline: > Sounds like you are getting a uniprocessor kernel installed, and > Kadischi detects > an SMP system. You're right. The live-cd I want to create should be run on Pentium IV machines with HT initially. It would of course be nice to support other hardware, too. So a generic i586 kernel will be okay in this case. Any idea how I can fix this? Or helping you fixing it? Regards, Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 11 11:00:02 2006 From: filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org (Filip Tsachev) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:00:02 +0300 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Live DVD with packages from Extras Message-ID: Hello, I've been testing including additional packages, used createrepo, no error what so ever. But those packages don't get listed in anaconda's gui, how would I go for including such? I was trying to add packages from extras. -- Cheers, Filip http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FilipTsachev From cnegus at rucls.net Tue Apr 11 13:50:53 2006 From: cnegus at rucls.net (Chris Negus) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:50:53 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Live DVD with packages from Extras In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1144763453.2471.66.camel@einstein> On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 14:00 +0300, Filip Tsachev wrote: > But those packages don't get listed in anaconda's gui, how would I go > for including such? I was trying to add packages from extras. You can modify the Fedora/base/comps.xml file in the local FC5 repository you are using. Fedora 5 has a new format for that file, so you probably can't simply paste in the stuff you want from your Extras comps.xml file. You should create groups of Extras packages in comps.xml, then bring them together into a category. That will cause them to show up in the custom packages part of the anaconda GUI. A group doesn't show up in the GUI unless you add it to a category. However, I think you can still request the group from a kickstart file. I hope that helps. -- Chris Negus From katzj at redhat.com Tue Apr 11 15:11:38 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:11:38 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <20060411012646.18803.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060411012646.18803.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1144768298.3875.24.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 18:26 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > I suppose my opinion is that it is a trivial complexity addition, one which > kadischi currently possesses (though it could be 'cleaner'), and why revisit > later, when we can just clean up and extend what is currently there? It's hardly trivial. Supporting filesystems ends up being quite a bit of work over time to ensure that all new features are supported everywhere. > Obviously ext2 is never going to beat squashfs on size. One would guess > uncompressed it would win on speed. Clearly at the moment it's the only one > that supports xattrs. Then throw in that you can (I think) run it on top of > cloop as yet another option. Actually, I would expect that it won't really end up winning on speed as your CPU is going to be far faster than your CD drive. Also, cloop isn't an option as long as it's not in the main kernel. xattr support for squashfs is planned and adding it shouldn't be that hard if someone wanted to do the work. The maintainer has been very amenable to such things in previous discussions with him. Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Tue Apr 11 15:11:38 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:11:38 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] usefulness of non-zisofs, 'dual booting' scenarios In-Reply-To: <20060411052721.42779.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060411052721.42779.qmail@web38401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1144768298.3875.25.camel@aglarond.local> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 22:27 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > The motivation I see for wanting to add regular old iso as an option (not even > zisofs) is for the user to see files in the iso. And rather, the user (of > kadischi)'s users. As it turns out, you could do this even if the main live CD parts are a loopback mount. They're not mutually exclusive at all Jeremy From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 11 16:19:00 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:19:00 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation In-Reply-To: <1144747383.7360.49.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> <1144737670.7360.30.camel@schaefei01> <443B5C6A.9090506@adelphia.net> <1144742189.7360.41.camel@schaefei01> <443B7261.6090706@adelphia.net> <1144747383.7360.49.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <443BD6F4.6010208@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >You're right. > >The live-cd I want to create should be run on Pentium IV machines with >HT initially. It would of course be nice to support other hardware, too. >So a generic i586 kernel will be okay in this case. > >Any idea how I can fix this? Or helping you fixing it? > > A Pentium 4 is capable of using the i686 kernels, HT also warrants the use of an SMP kernel, in any case update your sources out of CVS and see if the problem persists. J. Hartline From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 11 16:22:56 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] usefulness of non-zisofs, 'dual booting' scenarios In-Reply-To: <1144768298.3875.25.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20060411162257.2651.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 22:27 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > The motivation I see for wanting to add regular old iso as an option (not > even > > zisofs) is for the user to see files in the iso. And rather, the user (of > > kadischi)'s users. > > As it turns out, you could do this even if the main live CD parts are a > loopback mount. They're not mutually exclusive at all Yes, that's right. Honestly I'm not trying to stoke a flamewar here. Maybe for development simplicity it does make sense to just focus on one filesystem type right now, and save features like multiple different filesystem type images being overlaid in the final system with a unionfs to people unafraid of loopback madness like myself (for the timebeing) ;). ----------- Elsewhere, replying to the isofs shared win/lin files example of chitlesh's marketing videos, jhartline wrote- > This is a likely scenario with an Official forged Fedora Core LiveCD or DVD. > Not a Kadischi CD in my opinion. > The bootsplash stuff is there to distinguish where and from how the disc > came about. > Promotional materials and other specific things like that should be > distributed with > an official disc, not these user-made CDs. Absolutely, of course chitleshes promotional materials would be used on an official fedora livecd. My point was to illustrate the _type_ of scenario that many end-users of a fedora-livecd generating system would find themselves in (when they are off happily producing their unofficial fedora livecd's). -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 12 07:14:41 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:14:41 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Time Estimation for LiveCD creation In-Reply-To: <443BD6F4.6010208@adelphia.net> References: <1144734234.7360.20.camel@schaefei01> <443B4978.3030104@adelphia.net> <1144737670.7360.30.camel@schaefei01> <443B5C6A.9090506@adelphia.net> <1144742189.7360.41.camel@schaefei01> <443B7261.6090706@adelphia.net> <1144747383.7360.49.camel@schaefei01> <443BD6F4.6010208@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144826081.7360.96.camel@schaefei01> Hello, Am Dienstag, den 11.04.2006, 11:19 -0500 schrieb Jasper O'neal Hartline: > in any case update your sources out of CVS and see if > the problem persists. Thanks. Now I got another error but will create a seperate thread for it. In anaconda.log I found: 08:50:17 DEBUG : no kernel-smp package 08:50:17 INFO : selected kernel package for kernel 08:50:17 DEBUG : selecting kernel-devel Thanks, Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 12 07:17:55 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:17:55 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed Message-ID: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> Hello all, As I've seen that this one is new, it maybe could have a bug. /usr/local/share/kadischi/post_install_scripts/04userconfig.py returned non zero (256) exit code. This comes from chroot exiting with 32512 because /usr/sbin/authconfig could not be found (in the chroot) Unfortunately the scrips clean out the build tree, so I could not check this out yet. (I will uncomment the cleaning and try again. Regards, Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 12 07:55:11 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:55:11 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> Hello, Am Mittwoch, den 12.04.2006, 09:17 +0200 schrieb Ingo Schaefer: > Unfortunately the scrips clean out the build tree, so I could not check > this out yet. (I will uncomment the cleaning and try again. I've done so. First: in 04userconfig.py the "sanity check" are checking the host system and not the buildroot Second: authconfig is not installed by default, or at least not when anaconda is run from kadischi Regards, Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 12 11:40:58 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:40:58 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> Hello, Am Mittwoch, den 12.04.2006, 09:55 +0200 schrieb Ingo Schaefer: > Second: authconfig is not installed by default, or at least not when > anaconda is run from kadischi I have to apologize. It seems my repository was not complete and anaconda therefore failed to install some of the packages. Thanks for any work done. Regards, Ingo Schaefer -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Apr 12 11:46:23 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:46:23 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604120446w73248437s9571ceae54ccac92@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the updates :) On 4/12/06, Ingo Schaefer wrote: > Hello, > Am Mittwoch, den 12.04.2006, 09:55 +0200 schrieb Ingo Schaefer: > > Second: authconfig is not installed by default, or at least not when > > anaconda is run from kadischi > > I have to apologize. > > It seems my repository was not complete and anaconda therefore failed to > install some of the packages. > > Thanks for any work done. > > Regards, > Ingo Schaefer > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQBEPOdKzK5sRT/1bPgRAq60AKCojBhXzI7XyZT4VL9tgQSaN95vhwCg5x4N > E3F+gfu34Tyqr+Xb9I3e+Uo= > =JKPk > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Apr 12 11:50:52 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:50:52 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] rootpath option does not take a value Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604120450r3b165081w4c5911921cf6e5ad@mail.gmail.com> hai there is there any change with rootpath of anaconda-11.1.0.3-1 ? # anaconda --rootpath=/tmp/livecd-build_no4/system --m=nfs://bordeaux anaconda: error: --rootpath option does not take a value Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Wed Apr 12 13:14:05 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:14:05 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >I have to apologize. > >It seems my repository was not complete and anaconda therefore failed to >install some of the packages. > > That is what it looks like to me also. In any case 04userconfig.py was checking the host rather than the target. Thanks. J. Hartline From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Apr 12 13:27:28 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:27:28 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: rootpath option does not take a value In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604120450r3b165081w4c5911921cf6e5ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604120450r3b165081w4c5911921cf6e5ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604120627j16f49f54rf3b56c0b035d3d38@mail.gmail.com> On 4/12/06, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > hai there > is there any change with rootpath of anaconda-11.1.0.3-1 ? > > # anaconda --rootpath=/tmp/livecd-build_no4/system --m=nfs://bordeaux > > anaconda: error: --rootpath option does not take a value > > Chitlesh > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > The correct command anaconda --rootpath /tmp/livecd-build_no4/system --method nfs://bordeaux Is anyone gettting this error too? if yes, then in kadischi.py it should be run ("anaconda %s --rootpath %s --method %s" % (anaconda_args, sysdir, method), builddir) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 12 14:09:59 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:09:59 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> Hello again, Am Mittwoch, den 12.04.2006, 08:14 -0500 schrieb Jasper O'neal Hartline: > That is what it looks like to me also. Now I fixed my repository, ran createrepo again, did a next run and now get: aktueller Runlevel kann nicht ermittelt werden setsebool: SELinux is disabled. As one may think, at this point kadischi hangs again. (first line translated means: actual runlevel can not be detemined) Regards, Ingo PS: I have not seen anything about it, but is there a possibility to debug this python so one can fix the things going wrong on the fly? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Wed Apr 12 14:17:20 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:17:20 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604120717p3baf522dj97e14b24c0eacdcc@mail.gmail.com> > aktueller Runlevel kann nicht ermittelt werden > setsebool: SELinux is disabled. > > As one may think, at this point kadischi hangs again. Same issue here. it takes a lot of time, right ? -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 12 14:32:30 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:32:30 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604120717p3baf522dj97e14b24c0eacdcc@mail.gmail.com> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> <13dbfe4f0604120717p3baf522dj97e14b24c0eacdcc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1144852350.11464.4.camel@schaefei01> Hello, Am Mittwoch, den 12.04.2006, 16:17 +0200 schrieb Chitlesh GOORAH: > Same issue here. Don't know, if its the same issue. The symptoms are the same. > it takes a lot of time, right ? You guessed right. I put an additional log statement which shows: flc_log("anaconda_args: %s" % anaconda_args) if executed (next run *g*) it prints: anaconda_args: [] which is a case not checked before. Regards, Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Wed Apr 12 14:44:36 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:44:36 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <443D1254.9080108@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >Now I fixed my repository, ran createrepo again, did a next run and now >get: > >aktueller Runlevel kann nicht ermittelt werden >setsebool: SELinux is disabled. > >As one may think, at this point kadischi hangs again. > > This is to be expected, and is in fact what authconfig will tell you under these circumstances, it is normal. On the other hand you should probably recheck your repository and/or give more information about your build host. It looks like you are missing more than just a few packages. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Wed Apr 12 14:47:59 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:47:59 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <1144852350.11464.4.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> <13dbfe4f0604120717p3baf522dj97e14b24c0eacdcc@mail.gmail.com> <1144852350.11464.4.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <443D131F.7020100@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >You guessed right. > >I put an additional log statement which shows: >flc_log("anaconda_args: %s" % anaconda_args) > >if executed (next run *g*) it prints: >anaconda_args: [] > >which is a case not checked before. > > > The fact anaconda_args may be empty is in fact checked. In any case I have not got around to the host vs. target authconfig, lokkit and ntsysv checks. If you can be patient, it should be taken care of sometime later this afternoon. J. Hartline From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 12 14:52:04 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:52:04 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <443D131F.7020100@adelphia.net> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> <13dbfe4f0604120717p3baf522dj97e14b24c0eacdcc@mail.gmail.com> <1144852350.11464.4.camel@schaefei01> <443D131F.7020100@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144853524.11464.6.camel@schaefei01> Hi, Am Mittwoch, den 12.04.2006, 09:47 -0500 schrieb Jasper O'neal Hartline: > The fact anaconda_args may be empty is in fact checked. It is checked against "None" > In any case I have not got around to the host vs. target authconfig, > lokkit and ntsysv checks. see attached file. Regards Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 04userconfig.py Type: text/x-python Size: 1783 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Wed Apr 12 15:01:10 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:01:10 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <1144853524.11464.6.camel@schaefei01> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> <1144851000.7360.125.camel@schaefei01> <13dbfe4f0604120717p3baf522dj97e14b24c0eacdcc@mail.gmail.com> <1144852350.11464.4.camel@schaefei01> <443D131F.7020100@adelphia.net> <1144853524.11464.6.camel@schaefei01> Message-ID: <443D1636.6070809@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >It is checked against "None" > > > >>In any case I have not got around to the host vs. target authconfig, >>lokkit and ntsysv checks. >> >> > >see attached file. > > anaconda_args are passed from kadischi.py. If it is empty, it is set to None. J. Hartline From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Wed Apr 12 17:14:58 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:14:58 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> References: <1144826275.7360.101.camel@schaefei01> <1144828511.7360.105.camel@schaefei01> <1144842058.7360.115.camel@schaefei01> <443CFD1D.9080800@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144862098.22479.7.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 08:14 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Ingo Schaefer wrote: > > >I have to apologize. > > > >It seems my repository was not complete and anaconda therefore failed to > >install some of the packages. > > > > > That is what it looks like to me also. > In any case 04userconfig.py was checking the host rather than the target. > Thanks. The current check is a little bit off. When os.path.join() normalizes and combines paths, it interprets a leading '/' as always referencing the root directory. So sysdir='/var/kiosktmp' os.path.join(sysdir, '/usr/sbin/lokkit') => /usr/sbin/lokkit os.path.join(sysdir, 'usr/sbin/lokkit') => /var/kiosktmp/usr/sbin/lokkit -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kadischi-04userconfig-path.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 1576 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Wed Apr 12 18:01:07 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:01:07 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] rootpath option does not take a value In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604120450r3b165081w4c5911921cf6e5ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604120450r3b165081w4c5911921cf6e5ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <443D4063.5020105@adelphia.net> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >hai there >is there any change with rootpath of anaconda-11.1.0.3-1 ? > ># anaconda --rootpath=/tmp/livecd-build_no4/system --m=nfs://bordeaux > >anaconda: error: --rootpath option does not take a value > > It was reqritten a bit to use OptionParser(). Until this is a released update though, we won't need to worry about fixing it within Kadischi. J. Hartline From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Wed Apr 12 18:13:20 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:13:20 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] rootpath option does not take a value In-Reply-To: <443D4063.5020105@adelphia.net> References: <13dbfe4f0604120450r3b165081w4c5911921cf6e5ad@mail.gmail.com> <443D4063.5020105@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1144865600.22479.11.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 13:01 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > >hai there > >is there any change with rootpath of anaconda-11.1.0.3-1 ? > > > ># anaconda --rootpath=/tmp/livecd-build_no4/system --m=nfs://bordeaux > > > >anaconda: error: --rootpath option does not take a value > > > > > It was reqritten a bit to use OptionParser(). > Until this is a released update though, we won't need to worry about > fixing it within Kadischi. I believe that anaconda-11.0.x works with either format. So there shouldn't be any issue with fixing this now. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 17:12:39 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <443B4768.3010001@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20060412171239.53225.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > > What does X autodetection mean? > X is X. Actually A is A, but... X autodetection is udev 'correctly' supporting hot/coldplug of vga adapters. In reality it's a few lines of script here and there that accomplish more or less the same thing. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 12 18:48:52 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:48:52 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed Message-ID: <21830415.99281144867732206.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Hello Jasper, >anaconda_args are passed from kadischi.py. >If it is empty, it is set to None. Maybe this should be, but in my case I had the log statement clearly saying that anaconda_args is an [] (empty array, tuple or sth. like that) Don't ask me why, i added check against [] as well ans maybe as you could have seen and now the installation asked me for iptables configuration and services to be started. Just at this moment I had to leave the office to get my train home. You will hear from me soon. Regards, Ingo From katzj at redhat.com Wed Apr 12 19:37:46 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:37:46 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <20060412171239.53225.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060412171239.53225.qmail@web38412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1144870666.3807.15.camel@aglarond.local> On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 10:12 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > What does X autodetection mean? > > X is X. > > Actually A is A, but... > > X autodetection is udev 'correctly' supporting hot/coldplug of vga adapters. > > In reality it's a few lines of script here and there that accomplish more or > less the same thing. More realistically, it's the work in X itself to autoconfigure itself based on the monitor and video cards present in the machine. Anything else is going to be less than optimal. The X server already has all kinds of this information (read through your X log sometime), but it basically just throws it out. Instead, we really want it to be using that information to give an "optimal" configuration and then things like resolution can start being a user preference[1] If someone is interested in helping to work on this, I can put you into contact with one of the X guys who has started looking at it as well Jeremy [1] This is already the case, we just have to set up the defaults where we _can't_ easily do probing for monitors From jdogalt at yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 20:47:53 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: X autodetection/configuration, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? Message-ID: <20060412204753.45796.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > > Actually it's called "Xorg -configure". That will generate an xorg.conf file Actually this looks fairly interesting (because I went as far as googling, but not quite as far as just reading knoppix scripts, which is obviously an integral part of the final solution). I was googling to see whatever happened to the read-edid program I used, and while it appears to be less than fully maintained and robust, this appears to be the successor- http://www.nongnu.org/autocfg-xorg/ (note, despite the nongnu domain name, the tool in question advertises gpl-v2) > that matches your vga (and sometimes monitor I think) hardware. Then you do > some sed or python or perl to tune things like the user preferred resolution. > > I was using this feature immediately after it was released in XFree86 several > years ago in a mandrake-8.0 livecd. Though my appliance only required > 640x480, > so I didn't have to worry too much about how successfully the monitor probing > (edid stuff) worked. > > Then if you want to, you can do some more scripting to replace nv with nvidia > etc (assuming you've agreed to all their terms, etc...) > > -jdog > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Wed Apr 12 21:01:42 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:01:42 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] authconfig could not be executed In-Reply-To: <21830415.99281144867732206.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> References: <21830415.99281144867732206.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: <443D6AB6.8020403@adelphia.net> Ingo Schaefer wrote: >>anaconda_args are passed from kadischi.py. >>If it is empty, it is set to None. >> >> > >Maybe this should be, but in my case I had the log statement clearly saying that anaconda_args is an [] (empty array, tuple or sth. like that) > > It is an empty list. >Don't ask me why, i added check against [] as well ans maybe as you could have seen and now the installation asked me for iptables configuration and services to be started. > > Since we use sys.argv[2:] for anaconda_args we initialize a list, it happens to be empty. So, we'll check for the empty list rather than catch an exception from Python eliminating the useless loop also. Thanks. J. Hartline From jdogalt at yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 20:07:51 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: X autodetection/configuration, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <1144870666.3807.15.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20060412200751.54555.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 10:12 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > What does X autodetection mean? > > > X is X. > > > > Actually A is A, but... > > > > X autodetection is udev 'correctly' supporting hot/coldplug of vga > adapters. > > > > In reality it's a few lines of script here and there that accomplish more > or > > less the same thing. > > More realistically, it's the work in X itself to autoconfigure itself > based on the monitor and video cards present in the machine. Anything > else is going to be less than optimal. The X server already has all > kinds of this information (read through your X log sometime), but it > basically just throws it out. Instead, we really want it to be using > that information to give an "optimal" configuration and then things like > resolution can start being a user preference[1] > > If someone is interested in helping to work on this, I can put you into > contact with one of the X guys who has started looking at it as well Actually it's called "Xorg -configure". That will generate an xorg.conf file that matches your vga (and sometimes monitor I think) hardware. Then you do some sed or python or perl to tune things like the user preferred resolution. I was using this feature immediately after it was released in XFree86 several years ago in a mandrake-8.0 livecd. Though my appliance only required 640x480, so I didn't have to worry too much about how successfully the monitor probing (edid stuff) worked. Then if you want to, you can do some more scripting to replace nv with nvidia etc (assuming you've agreed to all their terms, etc...) -jdog > > Jeremy > > [1] This is already the case, we just have to set up the defaults where > we _can't_ easily do probing for monitors > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From katzj at redhat.com Thu Apr 13 18:51:11 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:51:11 -0400 Subject: X autodetection/configuration, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] squashfs -- anyone have a pristine tree? In-Reply-To: <20060412200751.54555.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060412200751.54555.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1144954271.3016.28.camel@aglarond.local> On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 13:07 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > Actually it's called "Xorg -configure". That will generate an xorg.conf file > that matches your vga (and sometimes monitor I think) hardware. Then you do > some sed or python or perl to tune things like the user preferred resolution. This is actually a really poor way to do things. Frob hardware once to start X, then exit, then start again? It's a bit overkill. Plus, modifying of an xorg.conf is very painful. You also need to take into account whether or not font paths are being used or a font server, etc, etc. Was harassing ajax some more about this yesterday, though, and we came to the conclusion that if you comment out the modes line from the display section and the horizontal and vertical sync lines from the monitor section, X mostly auto-detects and picks the "best" that can be done. That plus xrandr could get very reasonable automagic X setups. Jeremy From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Apr 13 19:42:13 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: X autodetection/configuration In-Reply-To: <1144954271.3016.28.camel@aglarond.local> Message-ID: <20060413194213.13377.qmail@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 13:07 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > Actually it's called "Xorg -configure". That will generate an xorg.conf > file > > that matches your vga (and sometimes monitor I think) hardware. Then you > do > > some sed or python or perl to tune things like the user preferred > resolution. > > This is actually a really poor way to do things. Frob hardware once to > start X, then exit, then start again? It's a bit overkill. I'm not exactly sure what 'frob' means, but my guess is that hardware was made to be frobbed. If it was really bad, why is the -configure option there? AFAIC nothing is overkill compared to what kadischi is currently using (i.e. zip). Plus, > modifying of an xorg.conf is very painful. Here's some sample code attached... (takes existing config in from pipe, outputs to stdout). I'll agree it was moderately painful, but not at all undoable. (note, code is 5 years old, current xorg.conf syntax might break it). And please don't bother with derisions about how ugly this or perl is. I merely submit this as an example. Look at it if you like, think about it if you like, and use it if you like. If not, post your own code that gets the job done. You also need to take into > account whether or not font paths are being used or a font server, etc, > etc. I would presume to take whatever default xorg.conf anaconda generates (say forcing it to assume vesa or vga), and then inserting the -configure'd device and monitor section. Then providing a suitably autoconfigured/generic input device section (note my script above puts in ps/2, usb, and lirc mouse, and doesn't really care how many of those the user has). > > Was harassing ajax some more about this yesterday, though, and we came > to the conclusion that if you comment out the modes line from the > display section and the horizontal and vertical sync lines from the > monitor section, X mostly auto-detects and picks the "best" that can be > done. That plus xrandr could get very reasonable automagic X setups. If that theoretical solution turns out to work better than what I've already done that I know already works, I'd love to integrate it into my project. For now though, I'm more of the mindset- get something working asap, and then evolutionarily change it as time, research and development progress. I don't know who this ajax person is, but if they are an X developer, and suggesting that -configure is the wrong thing, then hopefully they will either replace that option with the right thing, or reimplement it as the right thing. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tvos-filter-xf86config Type: application/octet-stream Size: 4030 bytes Desc: 1777399878-tvos-filter-xf86config URL: From katzj at redhat.com Fri Apr 14 01:48:17 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:48:17 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: X autodetection/configuration In-Reply-To: <20060413194213.13377.qmail@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060413194213.13377.qmail@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1144979297.2798.9.camel@aglarond.local> On Thu, 2006-04-13 at 12:42 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 13:07 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > Actually it's called "Xorg -configure". That will generate an xorg.conf > > file > > > that matches your vga (and sometimes monitor I think) hardware. Then you > > do > > > some sed or python or perl to tune things like the user preferred > > resolution. > > > > This is actually a really poor way to do things. Frob hardware once to > > start X, then exit, then start again? It's a bit overkill. > > I'm not exactly sure what 'frob' means, but my guess is that hardware was made > to be frobbed. If it was really bad, why is the -configure option there? > AFAIC nothing is overkill compared to what kadischi is currently using (i.e. > zip). Actually, there have been bugs in the past where starting X a second time on the same piece of hardware caused things to break. Additionally, you add a *ton* of time given how long it takes for things to sync and monitors going in and out of sync give a very real impression of "completely busted crap". There's even the occasional bug report about the _single_ sync required going from text mode to graphical mode during the install. > Plus, > > modifying of an xorg.conf is very painful. > > Here's some sample code attached... (takes existing config in from pipe, > outputs to stdout). I'll agree it was moderately painful, but not at all > undoable. (note, code is 5 years old, current xorg.conf syntax might break > it). And please don't bother with derisions about how ugly this or perl is. I > merely submit this as an example. Look at it if you like, think about it if > you like, and use it if you like. If not, post your own code that gets the job > done. And when something changes, you are doomed. Been there, done that. As for other code to generate X configs, please see the code used by anaconda. The problem there is that we have no good way of doing probing of "native" resolutions for things like LCDs. Until recently, this was the single most reliable thing to do. It's starting to look like a more minimal X configuration may now be able to start working. > > Was harassing ajax some more about this yesterday, though, and we came > > to the conclusion that if you comment out the modes line from the > > display section and the horizontal and vertical sync lines from the > > monitor section, X mostly auto-detects and picks the "best" that can be > > done. That plus xrandr could get very reasonable automagic X setups. > > If that theoretical solution turns out to work better than what I've already > done that I know already works, I'd love to integrate it into my project. > > For now though, I'm more of the mindset- get something working asap, and then > evolutionarily change it as time, research and development progress. I don't > know who this ajax person is, but if they are an X developer, and suggesting > that -configure is the wrong thing, then hopefully they will either replace > that option with the right thing, or reimplement it as the right thing. So because the option exists, it's the right thing? Seriously, if it worked so great, don't you think we would have just done that long ago instead of writing an entire stack of stuff to deal with X configuration? The right thing is really basically having xorg.conf die and getting suitable infrastructure into X to handle things like hotplugging of video devices and monitors, actual real input hotplug support (as opposed to the current hack where we just point at /dev/input/mice and it appears to magically work thanks to the kernel actually being helpful), etc. Unfortunately, there's a lot of work to get there. Things are definitely moving in that direction, though -- the ability to now not specify sync ranges and modes are just one step. Jeremy From filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 14 10:47:06 2006 From: filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org (Filip Tsachev) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:47:06 +0300 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Live DVD with packages from Extras In-Reply-To: <1144763453.2471.66.camel@einstein> References: <1144763453.2471.66.camel@einstein> Message-ID: Hello, On 11/04/06, Chris Negus wrote: > On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 14:00 +0300, Filip Tsachev wrote: > > But those packages don't get listed in anaconda's gui, how would I go > > for including such? I was trying to add packages from extras. > > You can modify the Fedora/base/comps.xml file in the local FC5 > repository you are using. Fedora 5 has a new format for that file, so > you probably can't simply paste in the stuff you want from your Extras > comps.xml file. > > You should create groups of Extras packages in comps.xml, then bring > them together into a category. That will cause them to show up in the > custom packages part of the anaconda GUI. A group doesn't show up in the > GUI unless you add it to a category. However, I think you can still > request the group from a kickstart file. > > I hope that helps. > > -- Chris Negus > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list So why is createrepo for? Just to use when you have replaced already defined packages with updated ones? If I want to add only 1 package can I include it in existing group or I should make new one? -- Cheers, Filip http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FilipTsachev From filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 14 12:03:53 2006 From: filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org (Filip Tsachev) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:03:53 +0300 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Problem with xorg.conf Message-ID: Hello, as I was testing one live-cd build X server failed to start on the host I used for generation, because of the "Driver " line, it was radeon I think, but it din't start, so I had to manually modify it to vesa to work.. not good. Any ideas on how to solve such scenarios automatically? -- Cheers, Filip http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FilipTsachev From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Fri Apr 14 12:52:04 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:52:04 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Problem with xorg.conf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443F9AF4.3090805@adelphia.net> Filip Tsachev wrote: >Hello, > >as I was testing one live-cd build X server failed to start on the >host I used for generation, because of the "Driver " line, it was >radeon I think, but it din't start, so I had to manually modify it to >vesa to work.. not good. Any ideas on how to solve such scenarios >automatically? > > Try removing the driver info, and the hsync vsync settings in the xorg.conf. X may do some autoconfiguration if this info isn't present. I've not tried it myself. Seems reasonable though. J. Hartline From mark_komarinski at hms.harvard.edu Fri Apr 14 12:59:55 2006 From: mark_komarinski at hms.harvard.edu (Mark Komarinski) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:59:55 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? Message-ID: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> Two problems I'm having with kadischi. First, the system never starts in runlevel 5, always 3. Somewhere during the ISO creation process I get "cannot determine current runlevel" which may be related. Second, is there any way to create a non-root user? I don't want people using the root account to log into the system. I'm using the live CDs for teaching a Linux desktop class. So far, I've been able to hack around, create the user after boot time and kick the init level to 5, but that takes a few minutes times 10 machines or so I have to do this on. -Mark -- Mark Komarinski mark_komarinski at hms.harvard.edu Sr. Research Systems Architect http://ritg.med.harvard.edu Research IT Group Harvard Medical School From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Fri Apr 14 14:09:52 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:09:52 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> Mark Komarinski wrote: > Two problems I'm having with kadischi. > > First, the system never starts in runlevel 5, always 3. Somewhere > during the ISO creation process I get "cannot determine current > runlevel" which may be related. > > Second, is there any way to create a non-root user? I don't want > people using the root account to log into the system. > Anaconda should be setting the correct runlevel according to packages installed. Do you have a list of packages you are using? As for the user you could probably run a few chroot/utilities. This is something I think would be good for Kadischi, the only downside is the password would be known. J. Hartline From mark_komarinski at hms.harvard.edu Fri Apr 14 15:38:32 2006 From: mark_komarinski at hms.harvard.edu (Mark Komarinski) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:38:32 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <443FC1F8.5000807@hms.harvard.edu> Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Mark Komarinski wrote: > >> Two problems I'm having with kadischi. >> >> First, the system never starts in runlevel 5, always 3. Somewhere >> during the ISO creation process I get "cannot determine current >> runlevel" which may be related. >> >> Second, is there any way to create a non-root user? I don't want >> people using the root account to log into the system. >> > Anaconda should be setting the correct runlevel according to packages > installed. > Do you have a list of packages you are using? I'm rerunning this now and the cannot determine current run level happens in 04userconfig.py. There's no anaconda-ks.cfg that gets created that I can see, or is it elsewhere? I selected X and GNOME, so that should mean that anaconda knows X is installed. > As for the user you could probably run a few chroot/utilities. > This is something I think would be good for Kadischi, the only downside is > the password would be known. I think I have a fix, but I'm testing it out now. I created a 07sleep.sh that just sleeps for 5 minutes. That's the last thing I have running, so while that goes on, I chroot into the image, create the user I want, fix the runlevel, and change my xorg.conf. I think longer term the solution would be to have instead of a sleep for 5 minutes something like "hit enter now to chroot into the image, make whatever changes you want, and things will continue when you leave the shell". Also a great way to add extra packages or run updates. It's a bit more manual, but a lot more flexible. -Mark -- Mark Komarinski mark_komarinski at hms.harvard.edu Sr. Research Systems Architect http://ritg.med.harvard.edu Research IT Group Harvard Medical School From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Fri Apr 14 15:46:25 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:46:25 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145029585.10003.15.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2006-04-14 at 09:09 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Mark Komarinski wrote: > > Second, is there any way to create a non-root user? I don't want > > people using the root account to log into the system. > > > As for the user you could probably run a few chroot/utilities. > This is something I think would be good for Kadischi, the only downside is > the password would be known. We should prompt for a user/password rather than providing a default one. Kadischi could take a cmdline switch like --user=fedora --md5-password='$1$MEUsTNg2$89lWdr/Hd1YFAIKBXPkD43' or popup a dialog requesting a username and password. The user could either be created at CD creationtime or boottime. The only difference that I can see is if a creator wanted to stick special files into the home directory (and didn't want to put them in /etc/skel.) And sometimes you don't want any users or passwords or you want a user with a disabled password so we should be able to make that happen as well. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Fri Apr 14 15:56:37 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:56:37 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <443FC1F8.5000807@hms.harvard.edu> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> <443FC1F8.5000807@hms.harvard.edu> Message-ID: <1145030197.10003.25.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2006-04-14 at 11:38 -0400, Mark Komarinski wrote: > Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > Mark Komarinski wrote: > > > >> Two problems I'm having with kadischi. > >> > >> First, the system never starts in runlevel 5, always 3. Somewhere > >> during the ISO creation process I get "cannot determine current > >> runlevel" which may be related. > >> > >> Second, is there any way to create a non-root user? I don't want > >> people using the root account to log into the system. > >> > > Anaconda should be setting the correct runlevel according to packages > > installed. > > Do you have a list of packages you are using? > > I'm rerunning this now and the cannot determine current run level > happens in 04userconfig.py. There's no anaconda-ks.cfg that gets > created that I can see, or is it elsewhere? I selected X and GNOME, so > that should mean that anaconda knows X is installed. It should be created in the /root/ directory in the build image. It's destroyed before compressing currently (AutOPSY -- is keeping /root instead of destroying it still in the works? I think it's a two line change or so and I didn't see any objections when you mentioned it.) If you're chrooting into that directory before the post_install scripts are run, you should see it there. > I think longer term the solution would be to have instead of a sleep for > 5 minutes something like "hit enter now to chroot into the image, make > whatever changes you want, and things will continue when you leave the > shell". Also a great way to add extra packages or run updates. It's a > bit more manual, but a lot more flexible. > Perhaps a --chroot option on kadischi's commandline? Long term, this is best done by writing a post_install script for your local settings but the option to chroot can be good for quick 'n dirty experimentation until you get it right. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Fri Apr 14 16:43:17 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:43:17 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <1145029585.10003.15.camel@localhost> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> <1145029585.10003.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <443FD125.1050402@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >We should prompt for a user/password rather than providing a default >one. Kadischi could take a cmdline switch like --user=fedora >--md5-password='$1$MEUsTNg2$89lWdr/Hd1YFAIKBXPkD43' > >or popup a dialog requesting a username and password. > > Right. I think the shell or dialog would be sufficient. A switch is well, a switch. For a user I don't think it is neccessary maybe we can look into the %livecd item for this instead. (Anaconda, ks.cfg) J. Hartline From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Fri Apr 14 17:42:42 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:42:42 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <443FD125.1050402@adelphia.net> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> <1145029585.10003.15.camel@localhost> <443FD125.1050402@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145036562.10003.34.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2006-04-14 at 11:43 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > >We should prompt for a user/password rather than providing a default > >one. Kadischi could take a cmdline switch like --user=fedora > >--md5-password='$1$MEUsTNg2$89lWdr/Hd1YFAIKBXPkD43' > > > >or popup a dialog requesting a username and password. > > > > > Right. > I think the shell or dialog would be sufficient. > > A switch is well, a switch. For a user I don't think it is neccessary > maybe we can look into the %livecd item for this instead. > (Anaconda, ks.cfg) Currently, I can completely script the running of kadischi. I'd hate to see this feature go away. So a commandline switch has advantages over a dialog. OTOH, this should currently be possible through anaconda's %post or a post_install. So the question becomes, what do we want kadischi to be able to do? Is it just the CD creator and all the configuration is done through (possibly distributed and enabled by default) post_install scripts? It makes sense at a certain conceptual level to do this, but it is more confusing to the user as scripts will have to be tweaked for their specifics. So at the least, kadischi needs to pass commandline args/parse any config files and pass those values through to the post_install scripts so the end-user is unaware of the split. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Fri Apr 14 18:41:06 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: user added optional features, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <1145036562.10003.34.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20060414184106.86560.qmail@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Fri, 2006-04-14 at 11:43 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > > >We should prompt for a user/password rather than providing a default > > >one. Kadischi could take a cmdline switch like --user=fedora > > >--md5-password='$1$MEUsTNg2$89lWdr/Hd1YFAIKBXPkD43' > > > > > >or popup a dialog requesting a username and password. > > > > > > > > Right. > > I think the shell or dialog would be sufficient. > > > > A switch is well, a switch. For a user I don't think it is neccessary > > maybe we can look into the %livecd item for this instead. > > (Anaconda, ks.cfg) > > Currently, I can completely script the running of kadischi. I'd hate to > see this feature go away. So a commandline switch has advantages over a > dialog. ditto on that. Losing headless cron-ability would be IMO undesirable. GUI's are nice, but command lines are useful. > > OTOH, this should currently be possible through anaconda's %post or a > post_install. So the question becomes, what do we want kadischi to be > able to do? Is it just the CD creator and all the configuration is done > through (possibly distributed and enabled by default) post_install > scripts? It makes sense at a certain conceptual level to do this, but > it is more confusing to the user as scripts will have to be tweaked for > their specifics. So at the least, kadischi needs to pass commandline > args/parse any config files and pass those values through to the > post_install scripts so the end-user is unaware of the split. I think this strategy makes sense. You allow the gui or command line args to create or tweak pre-cooked post_install scripts. But in general, there should be 1 set of post_install scripts that are just plain fundamentally required to get the liveiso to work. Another set that just make a tremendous amount of sense (X11 auto config, removing unneeded files from directories which live in tmpfs, etc...). And then more sets that are optional and can perhaps be shortcut added by the user via a commandline option, or gui radio button. Likewise that second primary set could be disabled via a similar comline option or gui button. More complicated semi-pre-cooked post_install scripts which require user configuration (i.e. system user username and password, security settings) could be used as above, but with the comline option, or gui radio button, requiring further user input. I.e. --add-feature=useraccount:username=sysuser:password="xxx" (or gui radio button invokes further dialog prompting for those options) Just a theory... , i.e. --add-feature=xautoconfig:defaultresolution=1024x768 --add-feature=gdmautologin:username=sysuser --add-feature=installextrapackages:extrayumrepo=http://...:packages=xmms,lirc,... --add-feature=custompayload:data=/home/me/livecdbuildenv/mydata:script=/home/me/livecdbuildenv/mypostinstall -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 14 19:58:34 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:58:34 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Problem with xorg.conf In-Reply-To: <443F9AF4.3090805@adelphia.net> References: <443F9AF4.3090805@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604141258mb097c2cpc47712fc0530fb02@mail.gmail.com> > Try removing the driver info, and the hsync vsync settings in the xorg.conf. > X may do some autoconfiguration if this info isn't present. > > I've not tried it myself. Seems reasonable though. > > J. Hartline I'll give a try to this one too. but normally what I do (which is not the best solution) is, I patch my xorg.conf to use vesa during post install . -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 14 19:53:50 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:53:50 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Live DVD with packages from Extras In-Reply-To: References: <1144763453.2471.66.camel@einstein> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604141253p70628d0eg3dd221efff25269d@mail.gmail.com> Hello Filip, I didn't get what you exactly mean. try How do I add my own packages for building a custom LiveCD with Kadischi? in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/FAQ On 4/14/06, Filip Tsachev wrote: > Hello, > > On 11/04/06, Chris Negus wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-04-11 at 14:00 +0300, Filip Tsachev wrote: > > > But those packages don't get listed in anaconda's gui, how would I go > > > for including such? I was trying to add packages from extras. > > > > You can modify the Fedora/base/comps.xml file in the local FC5 > > repository you are using. Fedora 5 has a new format for that file, so > > you probably can't simply paste in the stuff you want from your Extras > > comps.xml file. > > > > You should create groups of Extras packages in comps.xml, then bring > > them together into a category. That will cause them to show up in the > > custom packages part of the anaconda GUI. A group doesn't show up in the > > GUI unless you add it to a category. However, I think you can still > > request the group from a kickstart file. > > > > I hope that helps. > > > > -- Chris Negus > > > > -- > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > So why is createrepo for? Just to use when you have replaced already > defined packages with updated ones? > > If I want to add only 1 package can I include it in existing group or > I should make new one? > > -- > Cheers, > Filip > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FilipTsachev > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 14 20:29:33 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:29:33 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <1145036562.10003.34.camel@localhost> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> <1145029585.10003.15.camel@localhost> <443FD125.1050402@adelphia.net> <1145036562.10003.34.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604141329v11292350g59bc02fb55491d26@mail.gmail.com> I have a post install script which enables autologin for a user 'fedora'. See attachment. Maybe this might be useful to you. I've disabled the service "firstboot" for my livecd as well, but not sure whether its worth or not. Cheers, Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 10autologin.sh Type: application/x-sh Size: 1173 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 14 20:33:10 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:33:10 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <1145029585.10003.15.camel@localhost> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> <1145029585.10003.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604141333y2e5a7c5ap5ae37aedff5c9eb6@mail.gmail.com> > And sometimes you don't want any users or passwords or you want a user > with a disabled password so we should be able to make that happen as > well. Actually on my post install script, the user "fedora" doesn't have a password. Security should be discussed as well. -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 14 20:38:14 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:38:14 +0200 Subject: user added optional features, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <20060414184106.86560.qmail@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1145036562.10003.34.camel@localhost> <20060414184106.86560.qmail@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604141338p4e84c91atf26b5a7b0fcd659@mail.gmail.com> > --add-feature=useraccount:username=sysuser:password="xxx" > (or gui radio button invokes further dialog prompting for those options) > > Just a theory... , i.e. > > --add-feature=xautoconfig:defaultresolution=1024x768 > --add-feature=gdmautologin:username=sysuser > --add-feature=installextrapackages:extrayumrepo=http://...:packages=xmms,lirc,... > --add-feature=custompayload:data=/home/me/livecdbuildenv/mydata:script=/home/me/livecdbuildenv/mypostinstall I like this idea. We have to document ourselves on how will Anaconda deal with extras packages in the future. -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From cnegus at rucls.net Fri Apr 14 20:41:38 2006 From: cnegus at rucls.net (Chris Negus) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:41:38 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Live DVD with packages from Extras In-Reply-To: References: <1144763453.2471.66.camel@einstein> Message-ID: <1145047298.2471.120.camel@einstein> On Fri, 2006-04-14 at 13:47 +0300, Filip Tsachev wrote: > So why is createrepo for? Just to use when you have replaced already > defined packages with updated ones? > > If I want to add only 1 package can I include it in existing group or > I should make new one? I think that createrepo is primarily for creating yum repositories. You can feed createrepo a custom comps.xml file, but I don't believe that tool (or any other tool) creates one. When I asked how to modify comps.xml, I was told to just use a plain text editor. The comps.xml file in the repodata directory for Fedora Extras is, I believe, still in the pre-FC5 format. So, I think you can't just cut-and-paste entries from that file into the comps.xml file you use for kadischi with FC5. When I built a live CD with kadischi for FC5, I just copied a couple of packages from Extras to my RPMS directory and added each package to an existing group in comps.xml. If you have a bunch of packages, the better way may be to add a Fedora Extras category and one or more groups to your comps.xml. If there is a better way to do it, maybe someone else can make a suggestion -- Chris Negus From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Apr 16 18:35:02 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 20:35:02 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> Hello there, The board meeting http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-04-07: Live CD (Kadischi) -- Lots of people like the idea of this project, but there are still some problems to solve. We should empower people to take the reins, but if they hit a roadblock we need to find a way to assign them some help, without simply (a) taking the project away, or (b) saddling Red Hat developers with new work. DECIDED: Jeremy will take up the cause for Kadischi. I have some questions concerning Kadischi's roadmap and how the development will continue. Everyone knows that Kadischi's development stalled, but it wasn't dead. Some new features have been added on since, Squashfs, tuned with FC5, man pages, bootsplash, Legal.... Some of us even did marketing for Kadischi (http://clunixchit.blogspot.com/) or even popup'd some iso images for trial. Now what's NEXT ? What is Kadischi's roadmap? What do we want from Kadischi in the future? Will we start meetings again? Should contributors state in which area they want to get involved in so as 2 contributors might not do the same thing. What the Fedora Community looking for? ...... the list goes on. Jeremy, can you share your intentions with us too? It is now the time to discuss and share thoughts about how shall we boost Kadischi :) regards, Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From bart at bercie23.be Sun Apr 16 19:39:55 2006 From: bart at bercie23.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 21:39:55 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Self-intro Message-ID: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> Hey everyone, my name is Bart Couvreur and I'm from Lochristi, Belgium. I'm an 19 year old student, whose started using Linux in 2000, on a testing basis. I've been a Fedora user since FC2 and since January 2005 I'm a member of the Fedora Translation Team (Dutch). Now to the real thing ;)! I've been following the Kadischi-project since I first heard of it in January as part of the first Fedora Weekly Reports. At that time I was quite interested in this project but due to a lack of time I couldn't follow it right then. I've finally found some time to try out Kadischi and I was quite impressed with what I saw! Nice job, guys!! Had a little go at making a Live DVD, which seemed to work but broke down on a friends computer at firstboot-sequence (probably made an mistake there, X seems to break down, if anyone has a pointer, thanks in advance) I'm also willing to aid in the translation of Kadischi to Dutch (I've noticed that Thijs Hulshof has already taken a few steps in that direction). Also testing Kadischi is a possibility, just mention anything. Later on maybe I'll help in the development. Greetings, Bart From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Apr 16 19:53:55 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 21:53:55 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Self-intro In-Reply-To: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604161253m5e8a82dje6b684c80ea8ad3a@mail.gmail.com> On 4/16/06, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Hey everyone, my name is Bart Couvreur and I'm from Lochristi, Belgium. > I'm an 19 year old student, whose started using Linux in 2000, on a > testing basis. I've been a Fedora user since FC2 and since January 2005 > I'm a member of the Fedora Translation Team (Dutch). Hello Bart, welcome to the team :) > Now to the real thing ;)! I've been following the Kadischi-project since > I first heard of it in January as part of the first Fedora Weekly > Reports. At that time I was quite interested in this project but due to > a lack of time I couldn't follow it right then. > > I've finally found some time to try out Kadischi and I was quite > impressed with what I saw! Nice job, guys!! Had a little go at making a > Live DVD, which seemed to work but broke down on a friends computer at > firstboot-sequence (probably made an mistake there, X seems to break > down, if anyone has a pointer, thanks in advance) till someone, come up with a concrete solution, in the meantime you can replace in the /etc/X11/xorg.conf, the driver to vesa: such as: Section "Device" Driver "vesa" > I'm also willing to aid in the translation of Kadischi to Dutch (I've > noticed that Thijs Hulshof has already taken a few steps in that > direction). Also testing Kadischi is a possibility, just mention > anything. Later on maybe I'll help in the development. > > Greetings, > Bart Sure any help is welcome. please do add yourself to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Contributors :) Chitlesh -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Sun Apr 16 21:06:58 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 23:06:58 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Self-intro In-Reply-To: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604161406r11588c21pa8cd0feea7431ef1@mail.gmail.com> I've missed you on irc Contact me in private again, ill give you edit access to the wiki Chitlesh On 4/16/06, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Hey everyone, my name is Bart Couvreur and I'm from Lochristi, Belgium. > I'm an 19 year old student, whose started using Linux in 2000, on a > testing basis. I've been a Fedora user since FC2 and since January 2005 > I'm a member of the Fedora Translation Team (Dutch). > > Now to the real thing ;)! I've been following the Kadischi-project since > I first heard of it in January as part of the first Fedora Weekly > Reports. At that time I was quite interested in this project but due to > a lack of time I couldn't follow it right then. > > I've finally found some time to try out Kadischi and I was quite > impressed with what I saw! Nice job, guys!! Had a little go at making a > Live DVD, which seemed to work but broke down on a friends computer at > firstboot-sequence (probably made an mistake there, X seems to break > down, if anyone has a pointer, thanks in advance) > > I'm also willing to aid in the translation of Kadischi to Dutch (I've > noticed that Thijs Hulshof has already taken a few steps in that > direction). Also testing Kadischi is a possibility, just mention > anything. Later on maybe I'll help in the development. > > Greetings, > Bart > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Apr 17 01:00:55 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 20:00:55 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Self-intro In-Reply-To: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <4442E8C7.30402@adelphia.net> Bart Couvreur wrote: >Hey everyone, my name is Bart Couvreur and I'm from Lochristi, Belgium. >I'm an 19 year old student, whose started using Linux in 2000, on a >testing basis. I've been a Fedora user since FC2 and since January 2005 >I'm a member of the Fedora Translation Team (Dutch). > > Welcome. >Now to the real thing ;)! I've been following the Kadischi-project since >I first heard of it in January as part of the first Fedora Weekly >Reports. At that time I was quite interested in this project but due to >a lack of time I couldn't follow it right then. > >I've finally found some time to try out Kadischi and I was quite >impressed with what I saw! Nice job, guys!! Had a little go at making a >Live DVD, which seemed to work but broke down on a friends computer at >firstboot-sequence (probably made an mistake there, X seems to break >down, if anyone has a pointer, thanks in advance) > What would be best is to search through your particular logs when these things fail. X issues should be logged in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or Xorg.0.log.old depending. The firstboot issue could possibly be documented if you run firstboot directly when booted into the LiveCD. There is nowhere I know of firstboot logs to specifically. J. Hartline From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 02:05:56 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:05:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060417020556.1559.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Hello there, > > The board meeting http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-04-07: > > Live CD (Kadischi) -- Lots of people like the idea of this project, > but there are still some problems to solve. We should empower people ... > It is now the time to discuss and share thoughts about how shall we > boost Kadischi :) 1) get a name that draws interest and is intuitive. Unless of course the motivation is to keep users away until the project is sufficiently mature and useful. I vote for system-config-liveiso, or livecdgen, or anything whatsoever would be better than the cutesy 'kadischi'. It sounds like something that real men don't eat. 2) unionfs via initramfs (forget read-only root) 3) x autoconfig 4) run as user, not root (thus build system cannot be corrupted by liveiso generator bugs) 5) boot speed optomization either via the accelerated-knoppix cloop profiler, or the unionfs early boot file seperation method I've outlined in the past. 6) gui (system-config-kickstart seems like an ideal place to start, if you don't want to do the anaconda changes I proposed) 7) selinux, via ext2 image as an option In that order. Oh, and 8) feature flag to remove fedora/rh art/trademarks from target so that output can be redistributed as a new distribution without any special permission from fedora/rh. -jdog (the above outlines my own project. I'll let you all know next week or so when an alpha release is ready ;) Unfortunately tonight I have to do homework for tomorrow morning :( __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Apr 17 04:29:08 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 23:29:08 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060417020556.1559.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060417020556.1559.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44431994.3050206@adelphia.net> Jane Dogalt wrote: >4) run as user, not root (thus build system cannot be corrupted by liveiso >generator bugs) > > The first thing I can think of with this as a problem is Anaconda RPMdb locks and mkinitrd. Running Anaconda to do these things requires root privs, so this would probably mean Anaconda should be modified. mkinitrd must also currently be run as root. >7) selinux, via ext2 image as an option > > I think xattrs support in SquashFS is what we want. >8) feature flag to remove fedora/rh art/trademarks from target so that output >can be redistributed as a new distribution without any special permission from >fedora/rh. > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create LiveCD media.. but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running Anaconda in Debian may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing any efforts on running Kadischi on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, Kadischi shouldn't be focusing on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD tool not a distribution tool. I'm not saying it can't be done, sure it could. I just don't think it is Kadischi's job to help user's build thier own distribution's LiveCD. This is something the user should be doing, not Kadischi. Take for instance I want to build a new distribution that will be deployed to a few people somewhere.. I get Kadischi, modify it a bit to do what I need in that particular case, and use it. If this involves removing trademarks and artwork, so be it that is my responsibility as a user. Just my 2 cents. J. Hartline From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 05:01:44 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <44431994.3050206@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20060417050144.69115.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > >7) selinux, via ext2 image as an option > > > > > I think xattrs support in SquashFS is what we want. If thats an option, then yes, I don't see any other benefit from ext2. > > >8) feature flag to remove fedora/rh art/trademarks from target so that > output > >can be redistributed as a new distribution without any special permission > from > >fedora/rh. > > > > > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create LiveCD > media.. > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > Anaconda in Debian > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing any > efforts on running Kadischi > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, Kadischi > shouldn't be focusing > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD tool > not a distribution tool. I think you call it strange because you don't understand what I'm saying, although... to add #9) support multiple distributions, i.e. fedora5, fedora6, centos-4.3, debian, etc... I.e. with modular code for the distribution specific stuff, i.e. installer, initramfs tweaking, well... just about everything. but still, this is on my list, just at the bottom. But to clarify what I meant- which was purely within a fedora-core-5 is the only distribution in the world context- this goes back to this post of mine which no one ever answered- https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2006-March/msg00248.html > > I'm not saying it can't be done, sure it could. > I just don't think it is Kadischi's job to help user's build thier own > distribution's LiveCD. > This is something the user should be doing, not Kadischi. Maybe you did understand what I meant. If so, then I think the answer is- Is such a feature going to be used by many users of the tool? Would such a feature be needed by a user that wanted to post their ISO for the world to use, without having to ask fedora or redhat for permission first? For example the LWN author, reviewing kadischi, and wanting to post their output without first asking fedora or redhat for permission? I think it makes sense to give the user that power. Though I'll admit, if it's just a matter of the user downloading a post-install script from somewhere else and plugging it in, then it's purely a political issue if fedora wants to be the source of that particular post-install script. > > Take for instance I want to build a new distribution that will be > deployed to a few people somewhere.. > I get Kadischi, modify it a bit to do what I need in that particular > case, and use it. > If this involves removing trademarks and artwork, so be it that is my > responsibility as a user. > Just my 2 cents. Granted. I just envision the tool being used to post dozens if not hundreds of special purpose tools on the net. I mean, there are what 500 linux distributions out there? How many are knoppix derivatives? I want to see even more that are fedora livecd derivatives. I think there is no end to the usefulness of a livecd generating tool. And seeing the post that I linked to above, this redistribution issue remains a very big unanswered question in my book. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From tony at tgds.net Mon Apr 17 07:16:22 2006 From: tony at tgds.net (tony) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:16:22 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1145258183.7534.8.camel@hush.localdomain> Le dimanche 16 avril 2006 ? 20:35 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH a ?crit : > I have some questions concerning Kadischi's roadmap and how the > development will continue. .... > What is Kadischi's roadmap? > What do we want from Kadischi in the future? > Will we start meetings again? > Should contributors state in which area they want to get involved in > so as 2 contributors might not do the same thing. > What the Fedora Community looking for? > ...... the list goes on. As some of you may remember I was working on a live CD specific to VIA Epia M and later boards with a special emphasis on making a PVR/TV/multimedia box. The changes that took place in the transition from FC4 -> FC5 for Kadischi stopped my project in its tracks. So what I would like to see in the roadmap is clear indications of what changes will be made at each FC version change. And if a compatible version for the previous FC version will be maintained. Tony From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 17 08:16:53 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:16:53 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <44431994.3050206@adelphia.net> References: <20060417020556.1559.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44431994.3050206@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604170116j6318902ob96811db10a41185@mail.gmail.com> > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create LiveCD > media.. > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > Anaconda in Debian > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing any > efforts on running Kadischi > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, Kadischi > shouldn't be focusing > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD tool > not a distribution tool. > > I'm not saying it can't be done, sure it could. > I just don't think it is Kadischi's job to help user's build thier own > distribution's LiveCD. > This is something the user should be doing, not Kadischi. > > Take for instance I want to build a new distribution that will be > deployed to a few people somewhere.. > I get Kadischi, modify it a bit to do what I need in that particular > case, and use it. > If this involves removing trademarks and artwork, so be it that is my > responsibility as a user. > Just my 2 cents. > > J. Hartline I agree with Jasper over here. Kadischi is a Fedora Live CD creator tool. But till now it is not among the Official Fedora projects as it is still in its early stage of development. I suggest that this should be our priority, pull Kadischi away from its early stage of development. Considering this status, I feel it is the user's responsibility to clear out Fedora's trademarks / Logos. As for the user's post install scripts, he is the owner if he writes it himself. If he shares it with us and we decide to add it to the CVS version, then it will need to respect Fedora policies. But the tools Kadischi needs should be first be available from Fedora Official repositories. Chitlesh Goorah -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 17 09:02:11 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:02:11 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145258183.7534.8.camel@hush.localdomain> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145258183.7534.8.camel@hush.localdomain> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604170202o4ff3bfe6xeed91a40f8f37cdb@mail.gmail.com> So what I would like to see > in the roadmap is clear indications of what changes will be made at each > FC version change. The changes are normally discussed on the list. But nevertheless, ill try to document it as well whether on the wiki or in FedoraReports -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Apr 17 10:00:36 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 05:00:36 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145258183.7534.8.camel@hush.localdomain> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145258183.7534.8.camel@hush.localdomain> Message-ID: <44436744.3090803@adelphia.net> tony wrote: >As some of you may remember I was working on a live CD specific to VIA >Epia M and later boards with a special emphasis on making a >PVR/TV/multimedia box. > >The changes that took place in the transition from FC4 -> FC5 for >Kadischi stopped my project in its tracks. So what I would like to see >in the roadmap is clear indications of what changes will be made at each >FC version change. And if a compatible version for the previous FC >version will be maintained. > > The changes between Core 4 and Core 5 support in Kadischi are not too many. The largest one being SquashFS, since squashfs-tools are not in FC4 repositories I do not believe, they may be. In any case I wrote a message to the list stating if anyone needs updated Kadischi but for FC4 to send a reply. Changes between Core revisions are maintainable via RPM. Which is where Kadischi is headed, possibly. If you would like, I can build an RPM and keep it on website, it would be an unofficial package and would probably fall under scrutiny since it has the added bootsplash stuff. I never kept building FC4 RPMs since no one on the list responded. Otherwise Kadischi in CVS is a development branch and would stay current with the latest Core. J. Hartline From cnegus at rucls.net Mon Apr 17 15:04:53 2006 From: cnegus at rucls.net (Chris Negus) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:04:53 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <44431994.3050206@adelphia.net> References: <20060417020556.1559.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44431994.3050206@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145286293.2471.155.camel@einstein> On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Jane Dogalt wrote: > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create LiveCD > media.. > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > Anaconda in Debian > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing any > efforts on running Kadischi > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, Kadischi > shouldn't be focusing > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD tool > not a distribution tool. Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still hasn't, in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and trademarks. The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made two such requests and have not gotten a response back. So the question is not whether or not we want to help people build their own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone legally redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the splash screen or rebuild a package from source, is the resulting CD still Fedora? If not, do we legally have to remove references to Fedora? -- Chris Negus From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 17 15:08:36 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:08:36 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145286293.2471.155.camel@einstein> References: <20060417020556.1559.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44431994.3050206@adelphia.net> <1145286293.2471.155.camel@einstein> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604170808r40524fddw76db5d3730ace282@mail.gmail.com> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal On 4/17/06, Chris Negus wrote: > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > Jane Dogalt wrote: > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create LiveCD > > media.. > > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > > Anaconda in Debian > > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing any > > efforts on running Kadischi > > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, Kadischi > > shouldn't be focusing > > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD tool > > not a distribution tool. > > Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still hasn't, > in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and trademarks. > The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made two > such requests and have not gotten a response back. > > So the question is not whether or not we want to help people build their > own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone legally > redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the splash > screen or rebuild a package from source, is the resulting CD still > Fedora? If not, do we legally have to remove references to Fedora? > > -- Chris Negus > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 15:44:05 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? Message-ID: <20060417154405.4460.qmail@web38409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal > > I hate to be obtuse here Chitlesh, but seeing as how finally someone (Chris) > clearly has _precisely_ the same question as I do, I need to reiterate that > your supplied legal link does not answer my question. Ok. I _think_ that reading the bottom most section of the wiki page, that the answer to my question is clearly "Yes, no problem". And especially now that I read the link to the redhat/fedora trademark guidelines, which I believe has changed signifgantly in the past 2 years, I think the answer is really "absolutely, no problem". My confusion, and I'm hoping to clear up other people's confusion here as well, stemmed from what I believe was a historical guideline which forbid the _inclusion_ of fedora/rh copyrighed artwork and trademarks in a derivative distribution. In which case, merely having the fedora-logos.rpm files would make something unredistributable. Perhaps this was never the case. Certainly judging by the succinctness of the current trademark guidelines, and the following quote, it appears that my #2 case, and Question: below, are absolutely not a problem- "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any manner that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat." Although the more specific question is- If people see a fedora logo on a gdm login screen on an iso called jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso, would that "be likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat"? For my own purposes, I still think it will be wise for my own project to have a post install script which removes the fedora-logos.rpm package, so that users of my output needn't worry about splitting that legal hair. -jdog > > I think in the archive post I referenced, the situation of #2, is very > simple, > and I can't seem to get a straight answer from fedora. Can you please > specifically answer my question in the above Kadischi Legal Wiki, i.e. > > Question: If I as fedora/kadischi user, produce a livecd with kadischi (say > nothing more than the supplied minimal.ks and a post install script that adds > a > motd of "jane dogalt is the coolest"), am I legally allowed to post that on > my > own website for mass distribution under the title > "jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso"? > > I.e. due to the default behavior of kadischi, fedora-logos*.rpm will be > installed. Is that a problem? If so would simply removing that rpm in a > post > install script resolve the distribution problem? > > I don't think I can specify the question any clearer than that. And I for > the > life of me don't see an answer to that in the wiki-kadischi-legal you > referenced. > > -jdog > > > > > On 4/17/06, Chris Negus wrote: > > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > > > Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create LiveCD > > > > media.. > > > > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > > > > Anaconda in Debian > > > > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing any > > > > efforts on running Kadischi > > > > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, Kadischi > > > > shouldn't be focusing > > > > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD > tool > > > > not a distribution tool. > > > > > > Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still hasn't, > > > in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and trademarks. > > > The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made two > > > such requests and have not gotten a response back. > > > > > > So the question is not whether or not we want to help people build their > > > own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone legally > > > redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the splash > > > screen or rebuild a package from source, is the resulting CD still > > > Fedora? If not, do we legally have to remove references to Fedora? > > > > > > -- Chris Negus > > > > > > -- > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > > > -- > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From cnegus at rucls.net Mon Apr 17 16:00:58 2006 From: cnegus at rucls.net (Chris Negus) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:00:58 -0500 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060417154405.4460.qmail@web38409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060417154405.4460.qmail@web38409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145289658.2471.160.camel@einstein> On Mon, 2006-04-17 at 08:44 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal > > > > I hate to be obtuse here Chitlesh, but seeing as how finally someone (Chris) > > clearly has _precisely_ the same question as I do, I need to reiterate that > > your supplied legal link does not answer my question. > > Ok. I _think_ that reading the bottom most section of the wiki page, that the > answer to my question is clearly "Yes, no problem". Since I have certainly done nothing hateful and hopefully done nothing stupid, I will also accept the message at the bottom of that page as "Yes, no problem" as well. -- Chris From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 15:25:01 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604170808r40524fddw76db5d3730ace282@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060417152501.16780.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal I hate to be obtuse here Chitlesh, but seeing as how finally someone (Chris) clearly has _precisely_ the same question as I do, I need to reiterate that your supplied legal link does not answer my question. I think in the archive post I referenced, the situation of #2, is very simple, and I can't seem to get a straight answer from fedora. Can you please specifically answer my question in the above Kadischi Legal Wiki, i.e. Question: If I as fedora/kadischi user, produce a livecd with kadischi (say nothing more than the supplied minimal.ks and a post install script that adds a motd of "jane dogalt is the coolest"), am I legally allowed to post that on my own website for mass distribution under the title "jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso"? I.e. due to the default behavior of kadischi, fedora-logos*.rpm will be installed. Is that a problem? If so would simply removing that rpm in a post install script resolve the distribution problem? I don't think I can specify the question any clearer than that. And I for the life of me don't see an answer to that in the wiki-kadischi-legal you referenced. -jdog > > On 4/17/06, Chris Negus wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > > Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create LiveCD > > > media.. > > > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > > > Anaconda in Debian > > > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing any > > > efforts on running Kadischi > > > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, Kadischi > > > shouldn't be focusing > > > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD tool > > > not a distribution tool. > > > > Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still hasn't, > > in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and trademarks. > > The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made two > > such requests and have not gotten a response back. > > > > So the question is not whether or not we want to help people build their > > own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone legally > > redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the splash > > screen or rebuild a package from source, is the resulting CD still > > Fedora? If not, do we legally have to remove references to Fedora? > > > > -- Chris Negus > > > > -- > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gdk at redhat.com Mon Apr 17 18:46:54 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Self-intro In-Reply-To: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: Welcome aboard, Bart. :) --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 16 Apr 2006, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Hey everyone, my name is Bart Couvreur and I'm from Lochristi, Belgium. > I'm an 19 year old student, whose started using Linux in 2000, on a > testing basis. I've been a Fedora user since FC2 and since January 2005 > I'm a member of the Fedora Translation Team (Dutch). > > Now to the real thing ;)! I've been following the Kadischi-project since > I first heard of it in January as part of the first Fedora Weekly > Reports. At that time I was quite interested in this project but due to > a lack of time I couldn't follow it right then. > > I've finally found some time to try out Kadischi and I was quite > impressed with what I saw! Nice job, guys!! Had a little go at making a > Live DVD, which seemed to work but broke down on a friends computer at > firstboot-sequence (probably made an mistake there, X seems to break > down, if anyone has a pointer, thanks in advance) > > I'm also willing to aid in the translation of Kadischi to Dutch (I've > noticed that Thijs Hulshof has already taken a few steps in that > direction). Also testing Kadischi is a possibility, just mention > anything. Later on maybe I'll help in the development. > > Greetings, > Bart > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 17 23:08:59 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 01:08:59 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Self-intro In-Reply-To: References: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604171608o4f78398cy9d39c3ae25228687@mail.gmail.com> On 4/17/06, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > Welcome aboard, Bart. :) > > --g Good to see you again greg (with long hair ) :) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Apr 17 23:17:36 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:17:36 -0500 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060417154405.4460.qmail@web38409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060417154405.4460.qmail@web38409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44442210.6000404@adelphia.net> Jane Dogalt wrote: >My confusion, and I'm hoping to clear up other people's confusion here as well, >stemmed from what I believe was a historical guideline which forbid the >_inclusion_ of fedora/rh copyrighed artwork and trademarks in a derivative >distribution. > If it isn't modified it isn't a derivitive. What you are saying is if the baker bakes a cake you can go to a party and claim you baked it. Your reasoning is flawed somewhat. If you modify packages or the overall Fedora system, you cannot say it is Fedora because it _simply_ isn't. This isn't just a rule people want to go by to make your life harder, it is the truth. Secondly, according to discussion I was having the other day in fedora-mktg it is fine to distribute Fedora Core as Fedora Core, of course this isn't modified. From gdk at redhat.com Mon Apr 17 23:17:06 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:17:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Self-intro In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604171608o4f78398cy9d39c3ae25228687@mail.gmail.com> References: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> <13dbfe4f0604171608o4f78398cy9d39c3ae25228687@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually, I just got it cut today. You wouldn't recognize me. ;-) --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 4/17/06, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > > > Welcome aboard, Bart. :) > > > > --g > > Good to see you again greg (with long hair ) :) > > > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 18 00:31:50 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:31:50 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Start in runlevel 5, add user accounts? In-Reply-To: <1145030197.10003.25.camel@localhost> References: <443F9CCB.9020508@hms.harvard.edu> <443FAD30.4010804@adelphia.net> <443FC1F8.5000807@hms.harvard.edu> <1145030197.10003.25.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <44443376.2060708@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >It should be created in the /root/ directory in the build image. It's >destroyed before compressing currently (AutOPSY -- is keeping /root >instead of destroying it still in the works? I think it's a two line >change or so and I didn't see any objections when you mentioned it.) > > I've changed this in CVS. Now rootfiles along with Anaconda kickstart file is kept, and the install.log too. I think the original purpose was to conserve space, but in this respect removing root's files isn't the best way to do it I don't think. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 18 03:57:50 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:57:50 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Bugzilla Message-ID: <444463BE.10308@adelphia.net> Hi. Chitlesh, I am looking over the bugzilla entries for Kadischi. I think we could probably close a few of them, since they were CVs'd. The relevant ones are: #185834 #177705 From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 18 04:02:02 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:02:02 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Bugzilla In-Reply-To: <444463BE.10308@adelphia.net> References: <444463BE.10308@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <444464BA.70307@adelphia.net> Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Chitlesh, I am looking over the bugzilla entries for Kadischi. > I think we could probably close a few of them, since they were CVs'd. > > The relevant ones are: > #185834 > #177705 oops. I forgot this one also: #170710 (Is really an Anaconda issue, however it has been fixed. :-P ) J. Hartline From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 18 07:08:16 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:08:16 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Self-intro In-Reply-To: References: <1145216396.2706.16.camel@bercie23.homelinux.net> <13dbfe4f0604171608o4f78398cy9d39c3ae25228687@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604180008x7119e9b0nf7438ea0805a19a2@mail.gmail.com> On 4/18/06, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > Actually, I just got it cut today. You wouldn't recognize me. ;-) > > --g :) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 18 07:09:30 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:09:30 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Bugzilla In-Reply-To: <444464BA.70307@adelphia.net> References: <444463BE.10308@adelphia.net> <444464BA.70307@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604180009q2d849f26sd78d3dfea618e3e0@mail.gmail.com> ok, I will close them later on. Bugzilla is down for the moment (500 Internal Server Error) On 4/18/06, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > > Chitlesh, I am looking over the bugzilla entries for Kadischi. > > I think we could probably close a few of them, since they were CVs'd. > > > > The relevant ones are: > > #185834 > > #177705 > > oops. I forgot this one also: > #170710 (Is really an Anaconda issue, however it has been fixed. :-P ) > > J. Hartline > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 18 08:17:26 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:17:26 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060417154405.4460.qmail@web38409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060417154405.4460.qmail@web38409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604180117w5cb4e63fodc94adcb7686a706@mail.gmail.com> Hello, Should I consider this as solved/answered ? Nevertheless, I remind that if Kadischi/Legal wiki page isn't clear enough, please say so and propose how it can be improved. If you are having problem understanding a kadischi related wiki page, then maybe somebody else will too. So let's work together and reduce confusion. Chitlesh On 4/17/06, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal > > > > I hate to be obtuse here Chitlesh, but seeing as how finally someone (Chris) > > clearly has _precisely_ the same question as I do, I need to reiterate that > > your supplied legal link does not answer my question. > > Ok. I _think_ that reading the bottom most section of the wiki page, that the > answer to my question is clearly "Yes, no problem". > > And especially now that I read the link to the redhat/fedora trademark > guidelines, which I believe has changed signifgantly in the past 2 years, I > think the answer is really "absolutely, no problem". > > My confusion, and I'm hoping to clear up other people's confusion here as well, > stemmed from what I believe was a historical guideline which forbid the > _inclusion_ of fedora/rh copyrighed artwork and trademarks in a derivative > distribution. In which case, merely having the fedora-logos.rpm files would > make something unredistributable. Perhaps this was never the case. Certainly > judging by the succinctness of the current trademark guidelines, and the > following quote, it appears that my #2 case, and Question: below, are > absolutely not a problem- > > "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any manner > that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship > by Red Hat." > > Although the more specific question is- If people see a fedora logo on a gdm > login screen on an iso called jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso, would that "be > likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red > Hat"? > > For my own purposes, I still think it will be wise for my own project to have a > post install script which removes the fedora-logos.rpm package, so that users > of my output needn't worry about splitting that legal hair. > > -jdog > > > > > > > I think in the archive post I referenced, the situation of #2, is very > > simple, > > and I can't seem to get a straight answer from fedora. Can you please > > specifically answer my question in the above Kadischi Legal Wiki, i.e. > > > > Question: If I as fedora/kadischi user, produce a livecd with kadischi (say > > nothing more than the supplied minimal.ks and a post install script that adds > > a > > motd of "jane dogalt is the coolest"), am I legally allowed to post that on > > my > > own website for mass distribution under the title > > "jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso"? > > > > I.e. due to the default behavior of kadischi, fedora-logos*.rpm will be > > installed. Is that a problem? If so would simply removing that rpm in a > > post > > install script resolve the distribution problem? > > > > I don't think I can specify the question any clearer than that. And I for > > the > > life of me don't see an answer to that in the wiki-kadischi-legal you > > referenced. > > > > -jdog > > > > > > > > On 4/17/06, Chris Negus wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > > > > Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create LiveCD > > > > > media.. > > > > > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > > > > > Anaconda in Debian > > > > > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing any > > > > > efforts on running Kadischi > > > > > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, Kadischi > > > > > shouldn't be focusing > > > > > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD > > tool > > > > > not a distribution tool. > > > > > > > > Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still hasn't, > > > > in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and trademarks. > > > > The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made two > > > > such requests and have not gotten a response back. > > > > > > > > So the question is not whether or not we want to help people build their > > > > own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone legally > > > > redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the splash > > > > screen or rebuild a package from source, is the resulting CD still > > > > Fedora? If not, do we legally have to remove references to Fedora? > > > > > > > > -- Chris Negus > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > > > > > -- > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From ianbrn at gmail.com Tue Apr 18 08:31:56 2006 From: ianbrn at gmail.com (Ian Brown) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:31:56 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Requested Feature - boot from extenal CDROM Message-ID: Hello, I am avaluating kadischi live-cd and very impressed by it's functionality. i From ianbrn at gmail.com Tue Apr 18 08:37:10 2006 From: ianbrn at gmail.com (Ian Brown) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:37:10 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] boot from external CDROM - a requested feature Message-ID: Hello, Sorry, may previous message was sent before finishing it... I am evaluating kadischi live-cd and very impressed by it's functionality. I tried to boot a kadischi live-cd from an external USB CD rom and it failed. Other live-cd (like ubuntu or knoppix) do succeed to boot from an external USB CDROM. Is it possible to add support for booting kadischi live cd from an external USB CDROM ? Regards, IB From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 18 08:35:33 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 01:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604180117w5cb4e63fodc94adcb7686a706@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Hello, > Should I consider this as solved/answered ? For myself, I'll say yes for now. But see caveat below. > > Nevertheless, I remind that if Kadischi/Legal wiki page isn't clear > enough, please say so and propose how it can be improved. While the fedora trademark guidelines seem quite explicit that redhat has no intention to answer questions on the matter, you seem willing, so here is one- For the purposes of the following citation, are fedora logos considered "Redhat's trademarks"? Or are they trademarks that belong to a foundation that until very recently was entirely seperate from redhat, yet whose trademark guidelines seem intertwined with redhats (i.e. yeah, I'm a bit confused) "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any manner that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat" The root of the issue is- If I create output with kadischi, named mylivelinux.iso, which boots using the default fedora logos on the graphical boot (and gdm default background, and gnome default background), then would I be in danger of "being likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat"? Now mind you, from the rest of the page that contained that quote, the implication is that redhat will not answer any questions or make the issue any clearer. But if you want to give it a shot Chitlesh, I'm all ears and I'd be grateful. -jdog > > If you are having problem understanding a kadischi related wiki page, > then maybe somebody else will too. So let's work together and reduce > confusion. > > Chitlesh > > On 4/17/06, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > > --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal > > > > > > I hate to be obtuse here Chitlesh, but seeing as how finally someone > (Chris) > > > clearly has _precisely_ the same question as I do, I need to reiterate > that > > > your supplied legal link does not answer my question. > > > > Ok. I _think_ that reading the bottom most section of the wiki page, that > the > > answer to my question is clearly "Yes, no problem". > > > > And especially now that I read the link to the redhat/fedora trademark > > guidelines, which I believe has changed signifgantly in the past 2 years, I > > think the answer is really "absolutely, no problem". > > > > My confusion, and I'm hoping to clear up other people's confusion here as > well, > > stemmed from what I believe was a historical guideline which forbid the > > _inclusion_ of fedora/rh copyrighed artwork and trademarks in a derivative > > distribution. In which case, merely having the fedora-logos.rpm files > would > > make something unredistributable. Perhaps this was never the case. > Certainly > > judging by the succinctness of the current trademark guidelines, and the > > following quote, it appears that my #2 case, and Question: below, are > > absolutely not a problem- > > > > "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any > manner > > that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or > sponsorship > > by Red Hat." > > > > Although the more specific question is- If people see a fedora logo on a > gdm > > login screen on an iso called jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso, would that > "be > > likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by > Red > > Hat"? > > > > For my own purposes, I still think it will be wise for my own project to > have a > > post install script which removes the fedora-logos.rpm package, so that > users > > of my output needn't worry about splitting that legal hair. > > > > -jdog > > > > > > > > > > > > I think in the archive post I referenced, the situation of #2, is very > > > simple, > > > and I can't seem to get a straight answer from fedora. Can you please > > > specifically answer my question in the above Kadischi Legal Wiki, i.e. > > > > > > Question: If I as fedora/kadischi user, produce a livecd with kadischi > (say > > > nothing more than the supplied minimal.ks and a post install script that > adds > > > a > > > motd of "jane dogalt is the coolest"), am I legally allowed to post that > on > > > my > > > own website for mass distribution under the title > > > "jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso"? > > > > > > I.e. due to the default behavior of kadischi, fedora-logos*.rpm will be > > > installed. Is that a problem? If so would simply removing that rpm in a > > > post > > > install script resolve the distribution problem? > > > > > > I don't think I can specify the question any clearer than that. And I > for > > > the > > > life of me don't see an answer to that in the wiki-kadischi-legal you > > > referenced. > > > > > > -jdog > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/17/06, Chris Negus wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > > > > > Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create > LiveCD > > > > > > media.. > > > > > > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > > > > > > Anaconda in Debian > > > > > > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing > any > > > > > > efforts on running Kadischi > > > > > > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, > Kadischi > > > > > > shouldn't be focusing > > > > > > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD > > > tool > > > > > > not a distribution tool. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still > hasn't, > > > > > in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and > trademarks. > > > > > The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made two > > > > > such requests and have not gotten a response back. > > > > > > > > > > So the question is not whether or not we want to help people build > their > > > > > own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone > legally > > > > > redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the splash > > > > > screen or rebuild a package from source, is the resulting CD still > > > > > Fedora? If not, do we legally have to remove references to Fedora? > > > > > > > > > > -- Chris Negus > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > -- > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 18 09:50:24 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:50:24 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Bugzilla In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604180009q2d849f26sd78d3dfea618e3e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <444463BE.10308@adelphia.net> <444464BA.70307@adelphia.net> <13dbfe4f0604180009q2d849f26sd78d3dfea618e3e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604180250n2516c24y481851c866269272@mail.gmail.com> done ! On 4/18/06, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > ok, I will close them later on. > > Bugzilla is down for the moment (500 Internal Server Error) > > On 4/18/06, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > > > > Chitlesh, I am looking over the bugzilla entries for Kadischi. > > > I think we could probably close a few of them, since they were CVs'd. > > > > > > The relevant ones are: > > > #185834 > > > #177705 > > > > oops. I forgot this one also: > > #170710 (Is really an Anaconda issue, however it has been fixed. :-P ) > > > > J. Hartline > > > > -- > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From tony at tgds.net Tue Apr 18 09:53:13 2006 From: tony at tgds.net (tony) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:53:13 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145353993.6569.17.camel@hush.localdomain> Le mardi 18 avril 2006 ? 01:35 -0700, Jane Dogalt a ?crit : > The root of the issue is- > > If I create output with kadischi, named mylivelinux.iso, which boots using the > default fedora logos on the graphical boot (and gdm default background, and > gnome default background), then would I be in danger of "being likely to cause > confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat"? Yes because one of the big (huge) time consuming tasks I have planned into my liveCD is modifying all of that. If I can get away with leaving all of the fedora logo stuff in place and have the machine boot into an "epiaix liveCD" where it is clearly written that the OS is fedora with all VIA epia options turned on and a specific kernel. Personalised liveCDs _ARE_ fedora but either a subset or with additional features added in. This is almost more complicated than hacking personalised rpms... =:-D Tony From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 18 11:10:14 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:10:14 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604180117w5cb4e63fodc94adcb7686a706@mail.gmail.com> <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604180410l71a10f58jfbe1510ecd283da2@mail.gmail.com> > While the fedora trademark guidelines seem quite explicit that redhat has no > intention to answer questions on the matter, you seem willing, so here is one- Ill try to do my best to make it clear. > For the purposes of the following citation, are fedora logos considered > "Redhat's trademarks"? Or are they trademarks that belong to a foundation that > until very recently was entirely seperate from redhat, yet whose trademark > guidelines seem intertwined with redhats (i.e. yeah, I'm a bit confused) Up to now, 'Fedora' and the Fedora Logo are trademarks of Red Hat, Inc. and are subject to the terms of the Fedora Trademark Guidelines. I myself am waiting for a response from the board concerning this topic. -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 18 11:15:20 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:15:20 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145353993.6569.17.camel@hush.localdomain> References: <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1145353993.6569.17.camel@hush.localdomain> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604180415y3da9f23bs347f7e94a5e8333f@mail.gmail.com> On 4/18/06, tony wrote: > Le mardi 18 avril 2006 ? 01:35 -0700, Jane Dogalt a ?crit : > > > The root of the issue is- > > > > If I create output with kadischi, named mylivelinux.iso, which boots using the > > default fedora logos on the graphical boot (and gdm default background, and > > gnome default background), then would I be in danger of "being likely to cause > > confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat"? > > Yes because one of the big (huge) time consuming tasks I have planned > into my liveCD is modifying all of that. It depends how you build your livecd. If you include Forbidden items http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems, it should definitely NOT entail the word 'Fedora' within it If I can get away with leaving > all of the fedora logo stuff in place and have the machine boot into an > "epiaix liveCD" where it is clearly written that the OS is fedora with > all VIA epia options turned on and a specific kernel. Personalised > liveCDs _ARE_ fedora but either a subset or with additional features > added in. > > This is almost more complicated than hacking personalised rpms... > > =:-D Ill try to document it properly at the end of the week. Please provide me in bullet forms the heading(s) you think is missing in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal. We need to finalise it for once :) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 18 13:47:46 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:47:46 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604180117w5cb4e63fodc94adcb7686a706@mail.gmail.com> <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604180647h73e3f022me6f626d6a0fa5c5d@mail.gmail.com> > While the fedora trademark guidelines seem quite explicit that redhat has no > intention to answer questions on the matter, you seem willing, so here is one- I sat down and read the docs carefully. Here are my views on the matter: > For the purposes of the following citation, are fedora logos considered > "Redhat's trademarks"? Or are they trademarks that belong to a foundation that > until very recently was entirely seperate from redhat, yet whose trademark > guidelines seem intertwined with redhats (i.e. yeah, I'm a bit confused) > Red Hat does not like that a _project_ that it is not sponsoring, use its name or trademarks for the mere simple reason that : if the _project_ use the Red Hat trademarks, it would give the impressions that Red Hat is affiliate to this project, which is not the case. This _project_ might also not follow his principles. E.g If I create a livecd with nvidia drivers with Kadischi, Ill break the Fedora Policies. > "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any manner > that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship > by Red Hat" > > The root of the issue is- > > If I create output with kadischi, named mylivelinux.iso, which boots using the > default fedora logos on the graphical boot (and gdm default background, and > gnome default background), then would I be in danger of "being likely to cause > confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat"? > > Now mind you, from the rest of the page that contained that quote, the > implication is that redhat will not answer any questions or make the issue any > clearer. But if you want to give it a shot Chitlesh, I'm all ears and I'd be > grateful. > > -jdog > > > > > If you are having problem understanding a kadischi related wiki page, > > then maybe somebody else will too. So let's work together and reduce > > confusion. > > > > Chitlesh > > > > On 4/17/06, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > > > > --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal > > > > > > > > I hate to be obtuse here Chitlesh, but seeing as how finally someone > > (Chris) > > > > clearly has _precisely_ the same question as I do, I need to reiterate > > that > > > > your supplied legal link does not answer my question. > > > > > > Ok. I _think_ that reading the bottom most section of the wiki page, that > > the > > > answer to my question is clearly "Yes, no problem". > > > > > > And especially now that I read the link to the redhat/fedora trademark > > > guidelines, which I believe has changed signifgantly in the past 2 years, I > > > think the answer is really "absolutely, no problem". > > > > > > My confusion, and I'm hoping to clear up other people's confusion here as > > well, > > > stemmed from what I believe was a historical guideline which forbid the > > > _inclusion_ of fedora/rh copyrighed artwork and trademarks in a derivative > > > distribution. In which case, merely having the fedora-logos.rpm files > > would > > > make something unredistributable. Perhaps this was never the case. > > Certainly > > > judging by the succinctness of the current trademark guidelines, and the > > > following quote, it appears that my #2 case, and Question: below, are > > > absolutely not a problem- > > > > > > "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any > > manner > > > that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or > > sponsorship > > > by Red Hat." > > > > > > Although the more specific question is- If people see a fedora logo on a > > gdm > > > login screen on an iso called jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso, would that > > "be > > > likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by > > Red > > > Hat"? > > > > > > For my own purposes, I still think it will be wise for my own project to > > have a > > > post install script which removes the fedora-logos.rpm package, so that > > users > > > of my output needn't worry about splitting that legal hair. > > > > > > -jdog > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think in the archive post I referenced, the situation of #2, is very > > > > simple, > > > > and I can't seem to get a straight answer from fedora. Can you please > > > > specifically answer my question in the above Kadischi Legal Wiki, i.e. > > > > > > > > Question: If I as fedora/kadischi user, produce a livecd with kadischi > > (say > > > > nothing more than the supplied minimal.ks and a post install script that > > adds > > > > a > > > > motd of "jane dogalt is the coolest"), am I legally allowed to post that > > on > > > > my > > > > own website for mass distribution under the title > > > > "jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso"? > > > > > > > > I.e. due to the default behavior of kadischi, fedora-logos*.rpm will be > > > > installed. Is that a problem? If so would simply removing that rpm in a > > > > post > > > > install script resolve the distribution problem? > > > > > > > > I don't think I can specify the question any clearer than that. And I > > for > > > > the > > > > life of me don't see an answer to that in the wiki-kadischi-legal you > > > > referenced. > > > > > > > > -jdog > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/17/06, Chris Negus wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > > > > > > Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to create > > LiveCD > > > > > > > media.. > > > > > > > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions running > > > > > > > Anaconda in Debian > > > > > > > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be focusing > > any > > > > > > > efforts on running Kadischi > > > > > > > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, > > Kadischi > > > > > > > shouldn't be focusing > > > > > > > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a LiveCD > > > > tool > > > > > > > not a distribution tool. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still > > hasn't, > > > > > > in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and > > trademarks. > > > > > > The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made two > > > > > > such requests and have not gotten a response back. > > > > > > > > > > > > So the question is not whether or not we want to help people build > > their > > > > > > own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone > > legally > > > > > > redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the splash > > > > > > screen or rebuild a package from source, is the resulting CD still > > > > > > Fedora? If not, do we legally have to remove references to Fedora? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Chris Negus > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > > > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > -- > > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > > > -- > > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 18 14:00:49 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:00:49 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604180647h73e3f022me6f626d6a0fa5c5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604180117w5cb4e63fodc94adcb7686a706@mail.gmail.com> <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <13dbfe4f0604180647h73e3f022me6f626d6a0fa5c5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604180700w20c37e29qa3296fa6483ed59b@mail.gmail.com> http://fedora.redhat.com/about/trademarks/guidelines/page5.html Publishing And Marketing Fedora? Software That Has Been Modified 4. You must modify the files identified as FEDORA-LOGOS and ANACONDA-IMAGES so as to remove all use of images containing the "Fedora" trademark. Note that mere deletion of these files may corrupt the software. -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From tony at tgds.net Tue Apr 18 14:05:24 2006 From: tony at tgds.net (tony) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:05:24 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604180700w20c37e29qa3296fa6483ed59b@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604180117w5cb4e63fodc94adcb7686a706@mail.gmail.com> <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <13dbfe4f0604180647h73e3f022me6f626d6a0fa5c5d@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0604180700w20c37e29qa3296fa6483ed59b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1145369125.6569.49.camel@hush.localdomain> Le mardi 18 avril 2006 ? 16:00 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH a ?crit : > http://fedora.redhat.com/about/trademarks/guidelines/page5.html > > Publishing And Marketing Fedora? Software That Has Been Modified > > 4. You must modify the files identified as FEDORA-LOGOS and > ANACONDA-IMAGES so as to remove all use of images containing the > "Fedora" trademark. Note that mere deletion of these files may corrupt > the software. back to the drawing board... Tony From tony at tgds.net Tue Apr 18 14:11:11 2006 From: tony at tgds.net (tony) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:11:11 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604180700w20c37e29qa3296fa6483ed59b@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604180117w5cb4e63fodc94adcb7686a706@mail.gmail.com> <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <13dbfe4f0604180647h73e3f022me6f626d6a0fa5c5d@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0604180700w20c37e29qa3296fa6483ed59b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1145369471.6569.56.camel@hush.localdomain> Le mardi 18 avril 2006 ? 16:00 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH a ?crit : > http://fedora.redhat.com/about/trademarks/guidelines/page5.html > > Publishing And Marketing Fedora? Software That Has Been Modified > > 4. You must modify the files identified as FEDORA-LOGOS and > ANACONDA-IMAGES so as to remove all use of images containing the > "Fedora" trademark. Note that mere deletion of these files may corrupt > the software. What is your take on "based on Fedora Core [version number]" in light of that page? I don't interpret "based on" as "You may not state that your product "contains "Fedora?" This would amount to impermissible use of Red Hat's trademarks." Or "is modified Fedora Core rpms" or "is built from..." The guys doing GPL RHEL do say that the distribution is built from srpms found on the Red Hat Enterprise Linux ftp server (or they used to when I last read). Tony From alan at balclutha.org Tue Apr 18 14:24:52 2006 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:24:52 +1000 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604180647h73e3f022me6f626d6a0fa5c5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604180117w5cb4e63fodc94adcb7686a706@mail.gmail.com> <20060418083533.22003.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <13dbfe4f0604180647h73e3f022me6f626d6a0fa5c5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4444F6B4.1010500@balclutha.org> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > I sat down and read the docs carefully The problem however is actually in the *applications* (both Kadischi and Anaconda) - as it stands at the moment, they don't easily allow someone to rebrand them - without patching. Things *are* improving in this regard - just rather too slowly as we're seeing by this thread. In each of these applications, there's a small group of packages that contain the proprietry/branded information (fedora-logos, fedora-release and a couple of others). [I did manage to get Jeremy to change fedora-logos to system-logos a couple of months ago, but that's still insufficient] The problem is that the application attempts to reference these by *name* instead of by *provides* - which would give us all the indirection we need. I could then make *multiple* different fedora derivatives simply by cloning fedora-release and friends, putting a Provides: fedora-release in my new package, and deciding which of these to drop into my build base to spit out fully branded and customised installers and live cd's. I really do hope RH decides it's easier just to prioritise this change than to litigate against well-intentioned infringers. Alan From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 18 14:33:23 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:33:23 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] boot from external CDROM - a requested feature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4444F8B3.2010301@adelphia.net> Ian Brown wrote: > I tried to boot a kadischi live-cd from an external USB CD rom and >it failed. >Other live-cd (like ubuntu or knoppix) do succeed to boot from >an external USB CDROM. > > Is it possible to add support for booting kadischi live cd from an >external USB CDROM ? > > It would be possible, yes. However I myself do not have a USB CDROM to use. I think we could probably come up with something if you visit the #fedora-livecd channel via IRC at irc.freenode.net. Right now find_live_cd.c has a good few devices it handles which is where device support would be needed with Kadischi for your particular device. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 18 14:34:37 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:34:37 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi - Bugzilla In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604180250n2516c24y481851c866269272@mail.gmail.com> References: <444463BE.10308@adelphia.net> <444464BA.70307@adelphia.net> <13dbfe4f0604180009q2d849f26sd78d3dfea618e3e0@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0604180250n2516c24y481851c866269272@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4444F8FD.4090604@adelphia.net> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >done ! > > > Thanks Chitlesh!! J. Hartline From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 18 18:36:42 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604180647h73e3f022me6f626d6a0fa5c5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chitlesh, Thank you for your answers here. Unfortunately, I think you have confirmed what I have suspected all along, but which I thought needed to be spelled out. I.e. *** There is a very limited subset of customizations a kadischi user may make to their output, and still be 'legally' allowed to redistribute their output. Examples include- Including forbidden items, like nvidia drivers, mp3 support, etc. Doing things that are "hateful or stupid" in redhat or fedora's subjective opinion. And I suspect from a 'legal' point of view, basically anything that goes any distance beyond changing the package selection from purely within the core and extras repository. Because the instant you do anything complicated like adding your own package that hasn't vetted the core/extras quality control inclusion process, you are releasing a piece of software whose quality will reflect on the fedora name, due to implicit association. Certainly if (a) default fedora boot/background logos/images/trademarks are left in place. And even to a lesser extent, if the fedora-logos and anaconda images packages are left in place (am I missing anything?). *** I am harping on this, because I think the issue confirms my need (and I think it would vastly benefit the kadischi user community as well) for a simple post install script which optionally makes the resulting distribution "clean of any implied association or sponsorship by redhat or fedora". I'm hoping such a script isn't too terribly more complicated than rpm -e'ing fedora-logos and anaconda-images. A while back I saw all the .svg things in there, and was worried that it would be hard to replace those with 'dummy' items , but I tried out inkscape last night, and was truly amazed at how cool that tool is. Thanks again Chitlesh. I think we are well on our way to having a simple answer well documented, so that for example, an LWN author can know the extent of things they can modify while elavuating kadischi, and still be allowed to post their output if they want to (or any other reviewer or individual user of course). -jdog --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > E.g If I create a livecd with nvidia drivers with Kadischi, Ill break > the Fedora Policies. > > > "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any > manner > > that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or > sponsorship > > by Red Hat" > > > > The root of the issue is- > > > > If I create output with kadischi, named mylivelinux.iso, which boots using > the > > default fedora logos on the graphical boot (and gdm default background, and > > gnome default background), then would I be in danger of "being likely to > cause > > confusion by implying association with or sponsorship by Red Hat"? > > > > Now mind you, from the rest of the page that contained that quote, the > > implication is that redhat will not answer any questions or make the issue > any > > clearer. But if you want to give it a shot Chitlesh, I'm all ears and I'd > be > > grateful. > > > > -jdog > > > > > > > > If you are having problem understanding a kadischi related wiki page, > > > then maybe somebody else will too. So let's work together and reduce > > > confusion. > > > > > > Chitlesh > > > > > > On 4/17/06, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Legal > > > > > > > > > > I hate to be obtuse here Chitlesh, but seeing as how finally someone > > > (Chris) > > > > > clearly has _precisely_ the same question as I do, I need to > reiterate > > > that > > > > > your supplied legal link does not answer my question. > > > > > > > > Ok. I _think_ that reading the bottom most section of the wiki page, > that > > > the > > > > answer to my question is clearly "Yes, no problem". > > > > > > > > And especially now that I read the link to the redhat/fedora trademark > > > > guidelines, which I believe has changed signifgantly in the past 2 > years, I > > > > think the answer is really "absolutely, no problem". > > > > > > > > My confusion, and I'm hoping to clear up other people's confusion here > as > > > well, > > > > stemmed from what I believe was a historical guideline which forbid the > > > > _inclusion_ of fedora/rh copyrighed artwork and trademarks in a > derivative > > > > distribution. In which case, merely having the fedora-logos.rpm files > > > would > > > > make something unredistributable. Perhaps this was never the case. > > > Certainly > > > > judging by the succinctness of the current trademark guidelines, and > the > > > > following quote, it appears that my #2 case, and Question: below, are > > > > absolutely not a problem- > > > > > > > > "Red Hat does not permit or consent to any use of its trademarks in any > > > manner > > > > that is likely to cause confusion by implying association with or > > > sponsorship > > > > by Red Hat." > > > > > > > > Although the more specific question is- If people see a fedora logo on > a > > > gdm > > > > login screen on an iso called jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso, would > that > > > "be > > > > likely to cause confusion by implying association with or sponsorship > by > > > Red > > > > Hat"? > > > > > > > > For my own purposes, I still think it will be wise for my own project > to > > > have a > > > > post install script which removes the fedora-logos.rpm package, so that > > > users > > > > of my output needn't worry about splitting that legal hair. > > > > > > > > -jdog > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think in the archive post I referenced, the situation of #2, is > very > > > > > simple, > > > > > and I can't seem to get a straight answer from fedora. Can you > please > > > > > specifically answer my question in the above Kadischi Legal Wiki, > i.e. > > > > > > > > > > Question: If I as fedora/kadischi user, produce a livecd with > kadischi > > > (say > > > > > nothing more than the supplied minimal.ks and a post install script > that > > > adds > > > > > a > > > > > motd of "jane dogalt is the coolest"), am I legally allowed to post > that > > > on > > > > > my > > > > > own website for mass distribution under the title > > > > > "jane_dogalt_is_the_coolest.iso"? > > > > > > > > > > I.e. due to the default behavior of kadischi, fedora-logos*.rpm will > be > > > > > installed. Is that a problem? If so would simply removing that rpm > in a > > > > > post > > > > > install script resolve the distribution problem? > > > > > > > > > > I don't think I can specify the question any clearer than that. And > I > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > life of me don't see an answer to that in the wiki-kadischi-legal you > > > > > referenced. > > > > > > > > > > -jdog > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/17/06, Chris Negus wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 23:29 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > > > > > > > Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > > > > > > Now this is really strange, Kadischi is a tool to yes, to > create > > > LiveCD > > > > > > > > media.. > > > > > > > > but to create Fedora Core CD media. Although Rahul mentions > running > > > > > > > > Anaconda in Debian > > > > > > > > may be possible, I don't think right now is the time to be > focusing > > > any > > > > > > > > efforts on running Kadischi > > > > > > > > on everything but Fedora Core. Likewise in this same respect, > > > Kadischi > > > > > > > > shouldn't be focusing > > > > > > > > on allowing users to build thier own "distribution". It is a > LiveCD > > > > > tool > > > > > > > > not a distribution tool. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I think this is a good point. The Fedora project still > > > hasn't, > > > > > > > in my mind, clearly stated how to legally use its logos and > > > trademarks. > > > > > > > The Wiki says to make formal requests to use the logo. I've made > two > > > > > > > such requests and have not gotten a response back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the question is not whether or not we want to help people > build > > > their > > > > > > > own distributions from Kadischi. The question is how can someone > > > legally > > > > > > > redistribute "anything" built with Kadischi? If you change the > splash > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gdk at redhat.com Tue Apr 18 19:48:32 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hold it, hold it, hold it. Responses inline. On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Jane Dogalt wrote: > Chitlesh, > > Thank you for your answers here. Unfortunately, I think you have > confirmed what I have suspected all along, but which I thought needed to > be spelled out. I.e. > > *** > > There is a very limited subset of customizations a kadischi user may > make to their output, and still be 'legally' allowed to redistribute > their output. > > Examples include- Including forbidden items, like nvidia drivers, mp3 > support, etc. Doing things that are "hateful or stupid" in redhat or > fedora's subjective opinion. Wrong. You can include anything you like, and redistribute anything you like. The *only* restriction is whether or not you can use the Fedora name on that redistribution. The policy we're aiming for: if it's all Fedora stuff, you can use the Fedora name. If it isn't, you can't. Period. > And I suspect from a 'legal' point of view, basically anything that goes > any distance beyond changing the package selection from purely within > the core and extras repository. Because the instant you do anything > complicated like adding your own package that hasn't vetted the > core/extras quality control inclusion process, you are releasing a piece > of software whose quality will reflect on the fedora name, due to > implicit association. Certainly if (a) default fedora boot/background > logos/images/trademarks are left in place. And even to a lesser extent, > if the fedora-logos and anaconda images packages are left in place (am I > missing anything?). *** We're not the least bit worried about implicit association. Not at all. It's free software. The only thing we're worried about is *explicit* association. That's why we protect the marks themselves so rigorously. > I am harping on this, because I think the issue confirms my need (and I > think it would vastly benefit the kadischi user community as well) for a > simple post install script which optionally makes the resulting > distribution "clean of any implied association or sponsorship by redhat > or fedora". Agreed. Make it happen. > I'm hoping such a script isn't too terribly more complicated than rpm -e'ing > fedora-logos and anaconda-images. A while back I saw all the .svg things in > there, and was worried that it would be hard to replace those with 'dummy' > items , but I tried out inkscape last night, and was truly amazed at how cool > that tool is. Yep. Should be pretty simple. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From tony at tgds.net Tue Apr 18 20:40:29 2006 From: tony at tgds.net (tony) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:40:29 +0200 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145392830.6569.72.camel@hush.localdomain> Le mardi 18 avril 2006 ? 15:48 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg a ?crit : > Hold it, hold it, hold it. > > Responses inline. > The policy we're aiming for: if it's all Fedora stuff, you can use the > Fedora name. If it isn't, you can't. Period. OK so mine is/was/will be called epiaix It is all Fedora + xine + vdr + xmms + diverse stuff forbidden in the USA but destined to be used by people in France (boo, hiss...) and other part of Europe or the World where they DGAF (Fon't Give A Fsck) about stupid software patents (good software patents are OK the world over - stupid ones we don't need). Oh and did I say that the kernel was patched for VIA hardware sensors and diverse other VIA Epia stuff. I would like to say to potential users who may wish to upgrade for security bits and pieces or do other stupid user stuff that it is based on Fedora Core [version number] so that they can just yum away at their risk and peril. And I don't know if I will have the strength, intelligence or ... (biff unused option) to scrub clean mentions or logos from every single corner of a distribution that grows by a CD-ROM every three versions! Tony (interesting and useful thread) From gdk at redhat.com Tue Apr 18 20:45:41 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145392830.6569.72.camel@hush.localdomain> References: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1145392830.6569.72.camel@hush.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, tony wrote: > Le mardi 18 avril 2006 ? 15:48 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg a ?crit : > > Hold it, hold it, hold it. > > > > Responses inline. > > > The policy we're aiming for: if it's all Fedora stuff, you can use the > > Fedora name. If it isn't, you can't. Period. > > OK so mine is/was/will be called epiaix > > It is all Fedora + xine + vdr + xmms + diverse stuff forbidden in the > USA but destined to be used by people in France (boo, hiss...) and other > part of Europe or the World where they DGAF (Fon't Give A Fsck) about > stupid software patents (good software patents are OK the world over - > stupid ones we don't need). Oh and did I say that the kernel was patched > for VIA hardware sensors and diverse other VIA Epia stuff. > > I would like to say to potential users who may wish to upgrade for > security bits and pieces or do other stupid user stuff that it is based > on Fedora Core [version number] so that they can just yum away at their > risk and peril. We'll need to come up with good terminology for this, but I think we can. > And I don't know if I will have the strength, intelligence or ... (biff > unused option) to scrub clean mentions or logos from every single corner > of a distribution that grows by a CD-ROM every three versions! That's why a good script would help a lot. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 18 20:17:16 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060418201716.87481.qmail@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > Hold it, hold it, hold it. > > Responses inline. Holding it... :) Unfortunately your responses seem a bit contradictory, see below- > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > Chitlesh, > > > > Thank you for your answers here. Unfortunately, I think you have > > confirmed what I have suspected all along, but which I thought needed to > > be spelled out. I.e. > > > > *** > > > > There is a very limited subset of customizations a kadischi user may > > make to their output, and still be 'legally' allowed to redistribute > > their output. > > > > Examples include- Including forbidden items, like nvidia drivers, mp3 > > support, etc. Doing things that are "hateful or stupid" in redhat or > > fedora's subjective opinion. > > Wrong. You can include anything you like, and redistribute anything you > like. The *only* restriction is whether or not you can use the Fedora > name on that redistribution. Ok. I hesitate to pick more nits, because I feel like I've gotten a clear reversal on the #2 situation in my historic post. But to pick a nit- "Using the Fedora name on that distribution" _only_ means what you name the iso, and what you advertise the iso as, correct? Or does that extend to "using the fedora name _in_ that distribution". I.e. a) having fedora-logos.rpm installed, but not visible during a typical boot and usage scenario? b) having fedora-logos.rpm installed, and the fedora logo visible during graphical boot and or default desktop background? c) not having fedora-logos.rpm, but having many instances of the text string buried in lots of places, including each rpm's metadata? > > The policy we're aiming for: if it's all Fedora stuff, you can use the > Fedora name. If it isn't, you can't. Period. > > > And I suspect from a 'legal' point of view, basically anything that goes > > any distance beyond changing the package selection from purely within > > the core and extras repository. Because the instant you do anything > > complicated like adding your own package that hasn't vetted the > > core/extras quality control inclusion process, you are releasing a piece > > of software whose quality will reflect on the fedora name, due to > > implicit association. Certainly if (a) default fedora boot/background > > logos/images/trademarks are left in place. And even to a lesser extent, > > if the fedora-logos and anaconda images packages are left in place (am I > > missing anything?). *** > > We're not the least bit worried about implicit association. Not at all. > It's free software. The only thing we're worried about is *explicit* > association. That's why we protect the marks themselves so rigorously. This seems clear, in that leaving the fedora name in the graphical boot sequence is in my mind _implicit_ association. As opposed to putting an iso on a website and saying "this is fedora linux: jdog live version", which would be _explicit_ association. But if my interpretation there is correct, then it doesn't seem there is an actual need for the post-install cleanup script mentioned below (there is no need, but it still might be a nice option). So Greg, can you clear it up for me? Can I install mp3 support, rewrite the bootscripts so that they work for me, but generally make the distro look broken and like a piece of crap for most other people because I didn't invest any time quality-controlling my changes, leaving in the fedora graphics during graphical boot and default desktop background, and then post the iso as jdog.iso advertised as "jane dogalt's live OS"? Would it make any difference if in addition to the above, on my website, I called the distribution a "livecd derived from fedora core 5"? > > > I am harping on this, because I think the issue confirms my need (and I > > think it would vastly benefit the kadischi user community as well) for a > > simple post install script which optionally makes the resulting > > distribution "clean of any implied association or sponsorship by redhat > > or fedora". > > Agreed. Make it happen. Again, I think this is a useful thing to make happen. But is that because it's required for the above scenarios, or merely a nice option to have? Thanks, -jdog > > > I'm hoping such a script isn't too terribly more complicated than rpm > -e'ing > > fedora-logos and anaconda-images. A while back I saw all the .svg things > in > > there, and was worried that it would be hard to replace those with 'dummy' > > items , but I tried out inkscape last night, and was truly amazed at how > cool > > that tool is. > > Yep. Should be pretty simple. > > --g > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org > Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gdk at redhat.com Tue Apr 18 21:26:47 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:26:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060418201716.87481.qmail@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060418201716.87481.qmail@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Jane Dogalt wrote: > This seems clear, in that leaving the fedora name in the graphical boot > sequence is in my mind _implicit_ association. As opposed to putting an > iso on a website and saying "this is fedora linux: jdog live version", > which would be _explicit_ association. > > But if my interpretation there is correct, then it doesn't seem there is an > actual need for the post-install cleanup script mentioned below (there is no > need, but it still might be a nice option). > > So Greg, can you clear it up for me? Can I install mp3 support, rewrite > the bootscripts so that they work for me, but generally make the distro > look broken and like a piece of crap for most other people because I > didn't invest any time quality-controlling my changes, leaving in the > fedora graphics during graphical boot and default desktop background, > and then post the iso as jdog.iso advertised as "jane dogalt's live OS"? > > Would it make any difference if in addition to the above, on my website, I > called the distribution a "livecd derived from fedora core 5"? What's clearly required is a definition of "using the Fedora marks." I will get a *very* explicit definition from legal, using your points as reference. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From gdk at redhat.com Tue Apr 18 22:08:36 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: "Using the Fedora marks" (fwd) Message-ID: Authoritative ruling from counsel. Removing fedora-logos is the critical path towards "removing Fedora marks." The board is working on these guidelines as well; I'll make sure this information gets to them. --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:05:25 -0400 From: Mark Webbink To: Greg DeKoenigsberg Subject: Re: "Using the Fedora marks" Having the text string in file names is not a trademark use, so that one is clearly okay. To then point out that it includes Fedora files and to use that to promote the distribution is not. As you suggest, pulling the logos.rpm is a must; it is not enough to just not have it display. Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >A good question from the LiveCD list. Need a ruling. > >I think pulling fedora-logos.rpm should be sufficient, myself. It's a >simple way to say "this is not Fedora." Even if there's lots of "fedora" >in the RPM header files, I think it's clear that it's not a Fedora >project. > >--g > >=== > >On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Jane Dogalt wrote: > >Ok. I hesitate to pick more nits, because I feel like I've gotten a clear >reversal on the #2 situation in my historic post. But to pick a nit- > >"Using the Fedora name on that distribution" _only_ means what you name the >iso, and what you advertise the iso as, correct? > >Or does that extend to "using the fedora name _in_ that distribution". I.e. > >a) having fedora-logos.rpm installed, but not visible during a typical boot and >usage scenario? > >b) having fedora-logos.rpm installed, and the fedora logo visible during >graphical boot and or default desktop background? > >c) not having fedora-logos.rpm, but having many instances of the text string >buried in lots of places, including each rpm's metadata? > >=== > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >-- >Fedora-livecd-list mailing list >Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > From ingo at ingo-schaefer.de Wed Apr 19 07:21:30 2006 From: ingo at ingo-schaefer.de (Ingo Schaefer) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:21:30 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: output redistribution issues again In-Reply-To: References: <20060418201716.87481.qmail@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145431290.4601.29.camel@schaefei01> Hello Greg and other list members, Am Dienstag, den 18.04.2006, 17:26 -0400 schrieb Greg DeKoenigsberg: > What's clearly required is a definition of "using the Fedora marks." > > I will get a *very* explicit definition from legal, using your points as > reference. This I need to have, too. My first goal is to create a live-cd based on Fedora Core 5 for our Linux User Group here. Of course I want to be able to include RPMs from external repositories like livna, atrpms and so on. I don't want to spend lots of time drawing new images and recompiling every RPM to look like an own one. Regards, Ingo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Wed Apr 19 17:41:06 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:41:06 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] 04userconfig.py small cleanup Message-ID: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> Small patch to 04userconfig.py - Small refactoring to remove duplicate code. - Allow lokkit to be run without ntsysv and vice versa. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kadischi-userconfig.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 1556 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Wed Apr 19 18:01:15 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:01:15 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] post_install_script options/interactivity Message-ID: <1145469676.3205.22.camel@localhost> 04userconfig and 07accounts are different than the other post_install_scripts in that they both start interactive processes. Currently, if the user has selected to use kickstart or cmdline mode for anaconda, the functionality of these scripts are skipped. This is okay to beat them into shape but we're eventually going to want to architect things so we can access the functionality when we're running anaconda noninteractively. Additionally, just because I've scripted a portion of anaconda's installer doesn't mean I don't want to configure the remaining pieces by hand. (anaconda itself allows for setting some things within a kickstart while prompting for missing values.) I think we want to copy the idea of cmdline, text, and graphical that anaconda has into kadischi. When kadischi is run in cmdline mode it attempts to execute with only the values given on the cmdline. When in text/graphical it will preset and run with any options given to it on the commandline but prompt for interactive use when something is missing. Does anyone have any thoughts or do I need to hack out a proof of concept so we have something to tear apart? -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Wed Apr 19 18:23:04 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:23:04 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] post_install_script options/interactivity In-Reply-To: <1145469676.3205.22.camel@localhost> References: <1145469676.3205.22.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <44468008.2040109@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >04userconfig and 07accounts are different than the other >post_install_scripts in that they both start interactive processes. >Currently, if the user has selected to use kickstart or cmdline mode for >anaconda, the functionality of these scripts are skipped. This is okay >to beat them into shape but we're eventually going to want to architect >things so we can access the functionality when we're running anaconda >noninteractively. > Absolutely. See the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Schedule item * make Anaconda ignore %livecd section, have Kadischi read this section (This is a kickstart cfg file item). > Additionally, just because I've scripted a portion of >anaconda's installer doesn't mean I don't want to configure the >remaining pieces by hand. (anaconda itself allows for setting some >things within a kickstart while prompting for missing values.) > > Yes, but this isn't using cmdline method. An incomplete kickstart file will halt Anaconda when using an incomplete kickstart file and cmdline method at the same time. >I think we want to copy the idea of cmdline, text, and graphical that >anaconda has into kadischi. When kadischi is run in cmdline mode it >attempts to execute with only the values given on the cmdline. > This isn't absolutely correct.. cmdline method of Anaconda doesn't bring up any curses or GTK+ UI of any kind. > When in >text/graphical it will preset and run with any options given to it on >the commandline but prompt for interactive use when something is >missing. > > Without kickstart anything from timezone to root password is prompted for. >Does anyone have any thoughts or do I need to hack out a proof of >concept so we have something to tear apart? > > > Maybe a bit more clarification, I am very open to ideas and of course any additional items or changes to scripts must be thought of as a starting point, the userconfig and accounts scripts are nothing more than skeletons. It brings the idea into play, rather than a finished concept. For example, Chitlesh asked me why we set the UID explicitly, and I have decided to change that. Fedora Core's useradd will start at 500 UID regardless, as this is a default. Incrementing to the next UID. J. Hartline From katzj at redhat.com Wed Apr 19 18:26:10 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:26:10 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 20:35 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Live CD (Kadischi) -- Lots of people like the idea of this project, > but there are still some problems to solve. We should empower people > to take the reins, but if they hit a roadblock we need to find a way > to assign them some help, without simply (a) taking the project away, > or (b) saddling Red Hat developers with new work. DECIDED: Jeremy will > take up the cause for Kadischi. > > I have some questions concerning Kadischi's roadmap and how the > development will continue. > > Everyone knows that Kadischi's development stalled, but it wasn't dead. > > Some new features have been added on since, Squashfs, tuned with FC5, > man pages, bootsplash, Legal.... Unfortunately, there are still the very large architectural problems around just reimplementing system components such as initrds, etc that go unsolved. And these are the things that long-term make kadischi very unmaintainable as it's just not possible to try to track every change that happens in that stage of the distro. Also, for better or worse, Darko was new to python. He did an admirable job, but the code just generally needs a fine-tooth comb of going through and actually using parts of python rather than re-implementing them (as it turns out, all of lib/*py isn't needed). > What is Kadischi's roadmap? > What do we want from Kadischi in the future? > Will we start meetings again? > Should contributors state in which area they want to get involved in > so as 2 contributors might not do the same thing. > What the Fedora Community looking for? > ...... the list goes on. I think the big thing that's needed is moving towards using the stock Fedora infrastructures for the various parts of creating the live CD. I started working on this while I was waiting on FC5 trees to test but then unfortunately had vacation, LinuxWorld and a week of meetings -- so it's taken far longer than I wanted to actually get to where this is "reasonable". Also, tying into this will be working with Bill and Mark on what they're doing to get stateless off the ground again -- this will also hopefully let us continue in the "using stock Fedora infrastructure" path. Going this way will let us get to where we can (I hope) actually have an Official Fedora LiveCD to give out in conjunction with the release of Fedora Core 6. And, it'll be a reasonable toolset to let other people create their own On this line of thinking, I've made progress on the following 1) Modifying kadischi.py to be a little bit more python-y. More importantly, it's using all python built-ins rather than reimplementations of things. We can also avoid the need for a config file with command-line options for pretty much everything. 2) Cleaning up invocation of the post scripts and how things are handled here. 3) Implementing a mkrootdev command to be included in a secondary initramfs overriding the stock nash mkrootdev. With this, we can use a completely stock initramfs creation. 4) Generate the isolinux config as anaconda's boot loader generation step. With this, I am now generating a live cd that can boot with init=/bin/bash. Getting beyond that is going to want to piggy-back on what Bill has been doing for readonly root in stateless. But rather than wait for everything to be perfect, I've gone ahead and put up what I currently have at http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/livecd/. Included there are the following: a) livecd.tar.gz -- this is the main pieces. See the README within for the basic usage, essentially the same as with kadischi, but a few tweaks so you can actually run from a working directory. The unfortunate side is that this mostly based on the state of things from a few weeks ago given the other stuff that I've been occupied with. b) booty-0.71-1.livecd.i386.rpm (and src.rpm). This is an updated booty that will work for creating the isolinux.cfg. Note that it's currently hacked to just work for live CDs c) anaconda-11.0.5-1.livecd.i386.rpm (and src.rpm) . This is a patched version of the FC5 anaconda that will properly do the boot loader config and ensure firewall, etc stuff is set up within the live CD image >From here, I'd like to get to where the hack to handle the boot loader config isn't needed, probably by actually having anaconda know that it's doing a rootpath install for a livecd. Also, getting integrated with the new stateless stuff and ensuring that everything is on the same page would be a good step forward. Then, questions like what goes on an official live CD and how do we get from something which exists to something which is good can start being attacked. And due to having our infrastructure aligned, we'll start just picking up improvements as things occur in the development tree. So, am I insane? Most of this is stuff that I've said before, but I've tried to sit down and put my money where my mouth is so to speak and actually gotten some coding done. Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Wed Apr 19 18:26:14 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:26:14 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060417020556.1559.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060417020556.1559.qmail@web38405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145471174.5386.50.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 19:05 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > The board meeting http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-04-07: > > > > Live CD (Kadischi) -- Lots of people like the idea of this project, > > but there are still some problems to solve. We should empower people > ... > > It is now the time to discuss and share thoughts about how shall we > > boost Kadischi :) > > 1) get a name that draws interest and is intuitive. Unless of course the > motivation is to keep users away until the project is sufficiently mature and > useful. > > I vote for system-config-liveiso, or livecdgen, or anything whatsoever would be > better than the cutesy 'kadischi'. It sounds like something that real men > don't eat. Naming is, to be perfectly honest, the least of my concerns. > 2) unionfs via initramfs (forget read-only root) Since unionfs isn't in the Fedora kernels, it's not really something we can count on right now. And there are significant concerns about it from some of our kernel developers that are likely to keep it from being a good option. > 3) x autoconfig As was kind of alluded to last week, we actually can be pretty close to this now. Chris was working on the rhpxl changes so that the X configs written out were more generic. I halfway wonder if the way to go about this while we wait on X to get the final pieces that would let us kill xorg.conf is to write basically a wrapper script that gets invoked instead of /usr/bin/Xorg. This would probe for the video card and create an xorg.conf and have a simple/sane config file for overriding some of the defaults. > 4) run as user, not root (thus build system cannot be corrupted by liveiso > generator bugs) This is going to be harder as you generally can't do everything needed for package installation as a user. I'd love to be proven wrong, but don't have high hopes :( > 7) selinux, via ext2 image as an option Trying to support multiple filesystems really is going to be a losing battle. Adding xattr support to squashfs shouldn't be that difficult -- look at the patches which added xattr support for tmpfs for the xattr piece and then just handling putting the metadata appropriately on the filesystem. Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Wed Apr 19 18:26:15 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:26:15 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145258183.7534.8.camel@hush.localdomain> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145258183.7534.8.camel@hush.localdomain> Message-ID: <1145471175.5386.51.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2006-04-17 at 09:16 +0200, tony wrote: > The changes that took place in the transition from FC4 -> FC5 for > Kadischi stopped my project in its tracks. So what I would like to see > in the roadmap is clear indications of what changes will be made at each > FC version change. And if a compatible version for the previous FC > version will be maintained. Personally, I think we need to get a version working and well-integrated with Fedora and then we move forward with new Fedora versions. As essentially a distro creation tool, there are going to have to be strong ties to the specific version of the distro. It's basically the same as the fact that you can't (easily) use, eg, FC5 anaconda to install FC4 Jeremy From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Wed Apr 19 19:32:04 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:32:04 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] post_install_script options/interactivity In-Reply-To: <44468008.2040109@adelphia.net> References: <1145469676.3205.22.camel@localhost> <44468008.2040109@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145475125.3205.61.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 13:23 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > >04userconfig and 07accounts are different than the other > >post_install_scripts in that they both start interactive processes. > >Currently, if the user has selected to use kickstart or cmdline mode for > >anaconda, the functionality of these scripts are skipped. This is okay > >to beat them into shape but we're eventually going to want to architect > >things so we can access the functionality when we're running anaconda > >noninteractively. > > > Absolutely. See the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Schedule item > * make Anaconda ignore %livecd section, have Kadischi read this section > (This is a kickstart cfg file item). > This sounds good if everyone agrees that kadischi and anaconda should be moving closer together. Are we working towards the day when Kadischi is a special case within anaconda, Jeremy? Is this started yet? Or are we going to have to wait for FC6's anaconda to deploy these changes? (Hmmm... a rather ugly kludge: since kadischi parses the file first, kadischi can pull out the livecd section and write a temporary kickstart file that is passed on to anaconda.) > > Additionally, just because I've scripted a portion of > >anaconda's installer doesn't mean I don't want to configure the > >remaining pieces by hand. (anaconda itself allows for setting some > >things within a kickstart while prompting for missing values.) > > > > > Yes, but this isn't using cmdline method. An incomplete kickstart file > will halt > Anaconda when using an incomplete kickstart file and cmdline method at > the same time. > > >I think we want to copy the idea of cmdline, text, and graphical that > >anaconda has into kadischi. When kadischi is run in cmdline mode it > >attempts to execute with only the values given on the cmdline. > > > This isn't absolutely correct.. cmdline method of Anaconda doesn't bring > up any curses or GTK+ UI of any kind. Err.. I think that's what I said. * The --cmdline method needs to take all options from the commandline/config files and error if any information is missing. * using --kickstart=[file] (alone or paired with --text/--graphical) should set things up according to commandline/config but go interactive if information is missing. > > > Maybe a bit more clarification, I am very open to ideas and of course > any additional items > or changes to scripts must be thought of as a starting point, the > userconfig and accounts scripts > are nothing more than skeletons. It brings the idea into play, rather > than a finished concept. If the way forward is a special kickstart file section then I think I'll do some work there. It looks like pykickstart holds the kickstart parser. So we'd want to modify that to recognize the %livecd header. * Do we need to coordinate with someone to get the changes merged in? pykickstart for livecds? * Does it make any sense to generalize the section for readonly root or stateless type applications? firstboot? * What options do we want embedded in there? Usernames and passwords; selinux and firewall configuration; services to start.... -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From katzj at redhat.com Wed Apr 19 19:55:46 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:55:46 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] post_install_script options/interactivity In-Reply-To: <1145475125.3205.61.camel@localhost> References: <1145469676.3205.22.camel@localhost> <44468008.2040109@adelphia.net> <1145475125.3205.61.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1145476546.6070.20.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 12:32 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 13:23 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > >04userconfig and 07accounts are different than the other > > >post_install_scripts in that they both start interactive processes. > > >Currently, if the user has selected to use kickstart or cmdline mode for > > >anaconda, the functionality of these scripts are skipped. This is okay > > >to beat them into shape but we're eventually going to want to architect > > >things so we can access the functionality when we're running anaconda > > >noninteractively. > > > > > Absolutely. See the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Kadischi/Schedule item > > * make Anaconda ignore %livecd section, have Kadischi read this section > > (This is a kickstart cfg file item). > > > This sounds good if everyone agrees that kadischi and anaconda should be > moving closer together. Are we working towards the day when Kadischi is > a special case within anaconda, Jeremy? Fundamentally, I don't think all of the live CD functionality will be subsumed into anaconda. Much like with Xen guest installs where there is a script which interacts nicely with the installation environment, we're going to want the same for live CDs. Some things will be handled more directly within anaconda (eg, the boot loader stuff) but some things make more sense to be handled without anaconda's interference > Is this started yet? Or are we going to have to wait for FC6's anaconda > to deploy these changes? (Hmmm... a rather ugly kludge: since kadischi > parses the file first, kadischi can pull out the livecd section and > write a temporary kickstart file that is passed on to anaconda.) I think for things to be widespread useful, we're going to have to work on them within the devel tree -- that means within the context of FC6. Otherwise, we're going to always be a step behind on integration. Doing some prototyping with the FC5 bits is okay, but working with the devel tree really isn't that painful. Especially right now, things are slow. > > Maybe a bit more clarification, I am very open to ideas and of course > > any additional items > > or changes to scripts must be thought of as a starting point, the > > userconfig and accounts scripts > > are nothing more than skeletons. It brings the idea into play, rather > > than a finished concept. > > If the way forward is a special kickstart file section then I think I'll > do some work there. It looks like pykickstart holds the kickstart > parser. So we'd want to modify that to recognize the %livecd header. This seems in line with what I'm currently thinking for handling Xen guest bits as well via the addition of a %xen section. It may end up being that the right thing to do here is to change pykickstart to be able to just ignore %foo sections that it doesn't know about. > * Do we need to coordinate with someone to get the changes merged in? > pykickstart for livecds? Chris Lumens (clumens AT redhat DOT com) is the maintainer of pykickstart. anaconda-devel-list is probably the most appropriate list for patches. And I can throw things at him across the hallway ;) > * Does it make any sense to generalize the section for readonly root or > stateless type applications? firstboot? I'd rather start with specific bits and if some make sense to be more general, then we can do so. > * What options do we want embedded in there? Usernames and passwords; > selinux and firewall configuration; services to start.... Well, selinux and firewall can be handled already within kickstart. We've avoided adding syntax to the ks.cfg for users/passwords and service configs in the past just because they're so easily achievable in %post. I could see trying to expand out some things that are currently just %post actions into being more structured, although Chris may disagree. Jeremy From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Wed Apr 19 22:27:49 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:27:49 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> Jeremy Katz wrote: >On this line of thinking, I've made progress on the following >1) Modifying kadischi.py to be a little bit more python-y. More >importantly, it's using all python built-ins rather than >reimplementations of things. We can also avoid the need for a config >file with command-line options for pretty much everything. >2) Cleaning up invocation of the post scripts and how things are handled >here. >3) Implementing a mkrootdev command to be included in a secondary >initramfs overriding the stock nash mkrootdev. With this, we can use a >completely stock initramfs creation. >4) Generate the isolinux config as anaconda's boot loader generation >step. > >With this, I am now generating a live cd that can boot with >init=/bin/bash. Getting beyond that is going to want to piggy-back on >what Bill has been doing for readonly root in stateless. But rather >than wait for everything to be perfect, I've gone ahead and put up what >I currently have at http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/livecd/. Included >there are the following: >a) livecd.tar.gz -- this is the main pieces. See the README within for >the basic usage, essentially the same as with kadischi, but a few tweaks >so you can actually run from a working directory. The unfortunate side >is that this mostly based on the state of things from a few weeks ago >given the other stuff that I've been occupied with. >b) booty-0.71-1.livecd.i386.rpm (and src.rpm). This is an updated booty >that will work for creating the isolinux.cfg. Note that it's currently >hacked to just work for live CDs >c) anaconda-11.0.5-1.livecd.i386.rpm (and src.rpm) . This is a patched >version of the FC5 anaconda that will properly do the boot loader config >and ensure firewall, etc stuff is set up within the live CD image > > I've just quickly tested the packages provided at http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/livecd/ and it works well, for what it does currently. I noticed it is written to use mkzftree rather than SquashFS, of course remembering you said it was based on progress weeks ago. NOTE: Anyone needing to test these packages as is should also have: xorg-x11-server-Xorg vnc-server J. Hartline From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Apr 20 00:04:07 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: unionfs, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145471174.5386.50.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060420000407.76447.qmail@web38415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 19:05 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > --- Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > The board meeting > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2006-04-07: > > > > > > Live CD (Kadischi) -- Lots of people like the idea of this project, > > > but there are still some problems to solve. We should empower people > > ... > > > It is now the time to discuss and share thoughts about how shall we > > > boost Kadischi :) > > > > 2) unionfs via initramfs (forget read-only root) > > Since unionfs isn't in the Fedora kernels, it's not really something we > can count on right now. And there are significant concerns about it > from some of our kernel developers that are likely to keep it from being > a good option. Can you enumerate at least a couple of those concerns? I see huge advantages, which have caused several livecd projects to already utilize it. I don't mind kadischi opting not to use unionfs, but I would like to know why. As far as not being in the kernels, it does build just fine as a module outside of the kernel. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From notting at redhat.com Thu Apr 20 02:18:51 2006 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:18:51 -0400 Subject: unionfs, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060420000407.76447.qmail@web38415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1145471174.5386.50.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <20060420000407.76447.qmail@web38415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060420021851.GA4595@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Jane Dogalt (jdogalt at yahoo.com) said: > > > 2) unionfs via initramfs (forget read-only root) > > > > Since unionfs isn't in the Fedora kernels, it's not really something we > > can count on right now. And there are significant concerns about it > > from some of our kernel developers that are likely to keep it from being > > a good option. > > Can you enumerate at least a couple of those concerns? I see huge advantages, > which have caused several livecd projects to already utilize it. I don't mind > kadischi opting not to use unionfs, but I would like to know why. Flaming pile of deadlocking goo when testing here, including causing panics after it failed to mount. Bill From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Apr 20 02:47:28 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: unionfs, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060420021851.GA4595@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060420024728.57256.qmail@web38415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Bill Nottingham wrote: > Jane Dogalt (jdogalt at yahoo.com) said: > > > > 2) unionfs via initramfs (forget read-only root) > > > > > > Since unionfs isn't in the Fedora kernels, it's not really something we > > > can count on right now. And there are significant concerns about it > > > from some of our kernel developers that are likely to keep it from being > > > a good option. > > > > Can you enumerate at least a couple of those concerns? I see huge > advantages, > > which have caused several livecd projects to already utilize it. I don't > mind > > kadischi opting not to use unionfs, but I would like to know why. > > Flaming pile of deadlocking goo when testing here, including causing > panics after it failed to mount. Yeah, I noticed some vaguely similar behaviour on mount failures. Then I reordered some options which seemed like they should be order independent, and things seemed to work just fine. Then I just now read the unionfs docs more closely, and I can see why kadischi will not be using it in the near future. I could probably try to track down this answer on archives of other forums, but if you could save me the hassle- Do rh/fedora's kernel developers foresee a working implementation of unionfs at any point? I.e. Do they acknowlege a desire for an issueless implementation of the same functionality, and do they see it as possible? (obviously fuse based unionfs probably need not apply... or rather, thats a linuxrc/nash that I'm almost afraid to contemplate) How about the other implementation mini_fo? -jdog P.S. - I'll take it upon myself to experiment with how bad unionfs really is in the context of a fedora based livecd. I just can't get over the desire to be able to do a yum install on a livecd. I wonder how messed up things would get doing a unionfs implementation purely with bindmounted files... (that seems likely to be more insane than living with existing unionfs issues) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Thu Apr 20 08:19:20 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:19:20 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604200119u37db89fdv6a8c1105cb1f0f73@mail.gmail.com> Just an Idea/proposition: Have anyone looked at gfxboot ? What do you think about it ? -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From katzj at redhat.com Thu Apr 20 14:56:03 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:56:03 -0400 Subject: unionfs, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060420000407.76447.qmail@web38415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060420000407.76447.qmail@web38415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145544963.26605.1.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 17:04 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 19:05 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > 2) unionfs via initramfs (forget read-only root) > > > > Since unionfs isn't in the Fedora kernels, it's not really something we > > can count on right now. And there are significant concerns about it > > from some of our kernel developers that are likely to keep it from being > > a good option. > > Can you enumerate at least a couple of those concerns? I see huge advantages, > which have caused several livecd projects to already utilize it. I don't mind > kadischi opting not to use unionfs, but I would like to know why. As Bill said, deadlocks and crashiness are the big reasons. > As far as not being in the kernels, it does build just fine as a module outside > of the kernel. Sure, but depending on a module outside of the core kernel for the base system is the path to madness. It will never actually be sanely kept updated for the extremely fast pace of kernel updates in Fedora and thus will just be broken far more often than not. Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Thu Apr 20 15:08:59 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:08:59 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145545739.26605.9.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 17:27 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > I've just quickly tested the packages provided at > http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/livecd/ > and it works well, for what it does currently. I noticed it is written > to use mkzftree rather > than SquashFS, of course remembering you said it was based on progress > weeks ago. Cool, thanks. And yeah, that's exactly why. If someone wants to beat me to changing it over, I'm not going to complain. On that note, I'm wondering if it makes sense to import this into a repository? Obviously, kadischi is already in CVS and I could import on a branch or a different repo. At the same time, given the fact that there's a lot of interest in experimenting and trying different approaches around live CD stuff, I wonder if it makes sense to actually use the mercurial setup on cvs.fedora so that people can have their own trees for trying stuff. > NOTE: Anyone needing to test these packages as is should also have: > xorg-x11-server-Xorg > vnc-server Yeah, forgot that I currently was doing the installs with vnc just because I was doing some testing from home while running everything on my test box at the office :) Jeremy From katzj at redhat.com Thu Apr 20 15:12:40 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:12:40 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604200119u37db89fdv6a8c1105cb1f0f73@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> <13dbfe4f0604200119u37db89fdv6a8c1105cb1f0f73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1145545960.26605.11.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 10:19 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Just an Idea/proposition: > > Have anyone looked at gfxboot ? > What do you think about it ? Are you referring to the pile of stuff that SuSE uses for generating their graphical menus in boot loaders? If so, it ends up requiring an absolutely disgusting pile of patches that have been rejected at least by the upstream syslinux maintainer. Jeremy From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Thu Apr 20 15:50:25 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:50:25 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145545739.26605.9.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> <1145545739.26605.9.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4447ADC1.4030305@adelphia.net> Jeremy Katz wrote: >>On that note, I'm wondering if it makes sense to import this into a >>repository? Obviously, kadischi is already in CVS and I could import on >>a branch or a different repo. At the same time, given the fact that >>there's a lot of interest in experimenting and trying different >>approaches around live CD stuff, I wonder if it makes sense to actually >>use the mercurial setup on cvs.fedora so that people can have their own >>trees for trying stuff. >> >> >> That could probably prove to be useful, it really depends I suppose on what is or isn't neccessary between what is planned for the project vs. just what you said, contributors or community trying thier own things. J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Thu Apr 20 15:56:50 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:56:50 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604200119u37db89fdv6a8c1105cb1f0f73@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> <13dbfe4f0604200119u37db89fdv6a8c1105cb1f0f73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4447AF42.7070109@adelphia.net> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: >Just an Idea/proposition: > >Have anyone looked at gfxboot ? >What do you think about it ? > > > I've not ever seen this package in Fedora Core. Looking at it briefly it is similar to Grub's splash screen menus but for Syslinux and LILO. J. Hartline From katzj at redhat.com Thu Apr 20 15:59:22 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:59:22 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <4447ADC1.4030305@adelphia.net> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <4446B965.9060708@adelphia.net> <1145545739.26605.9.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <4447ADC1.4030305@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145548762.26605.35.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 10:50 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Jeremy Katz wrote: > >>On that note, I'm wondering if it makes sense to import this into a > >>repository? Obviously, kadischi is already in CVS and I could import on > >>a branch or a different repo. At the same time, given the fact that > >>there's a lot of interest in experimenting and trying different > >>approaches around live CD stuff, I wonder if it makes sense to actually > >>use the mercurial setup on cvs.fedora so that people can have their own > >>trees for trying stuff. > >> > That could probably prove to be useful, it really depends I suppose > on what is or isn't neccessary between what is planned for the project > vs. just what you said, contributors or community trying thier own things. Even with contributors contributing in a more "traditional" fashion, distributed SCMs have their advantages in allowing people to better keep track of what they're doing themselves Jeremy From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Thu Apr 20 16:14:01 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:14:01 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] 04userconfig.py small cleanup In-Reply-To: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> References: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4447B349.7080501@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >Small patch to 04userconfig.py >- Small refactoring to remove duplicate code. >- Allow lokkit to be run without ntsysv and vice versa. > > I changed it up a bit to do this, but it was a bit different than the patch sent. Thanks, see how that works for you. J. Hartline From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Thu Apr 20 17:28:55 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:28:55 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] 04userconfig.py small cleanup In-Reply-To: <4447B349.7080501@adelphia.net> References: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> <4447B349.7080501@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145554136.3178.10.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 11:14 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > >Small patch to 04userconfig.py > >- Small refactoring to remove duplicate code. > >- Allow lokkit to be run without ntsysv and vice versa. > > > > > I changed it up a bit to do this, but it was a bit different than the > patch sent. > Thanks, see how that works for you. It separates lokkit from ntsysv fine, but still contains duplicate code. This is what's there now:: if anaconda_args: if cmdline or kickstart: exit Run interactive else: Run interactive Because the code is exiting if it finds the anaconda_args it's looking for we can make things simpler and remove duplicate code like so:: if anaconda_args: if cmdline or kickstart: exit Run interactive -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Thu Apr 20 18:24:02 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: bootloaders, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145545960.26605.11.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060420182402.89383.qmail@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 10:19 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > Just an Idea/proposition: > > > > Have anyone looked at gfxboot ? > > What do you think about it ? > > Are you referring to the pile of stuff that SuSE uses for generating > their graphical menus in boot loaders? If so, it ends up requiring an > absolutely disgusting pile of patches that have been rejected at least > by the upstream syslinux maintainer. It does look like gfxboot is in about the same state as unionfs. I.e. very cool for proof of concept livecds, but with far less than rock-solid tried and true reputation. I.e. definately something to play with, if you are so inclined to suffer the headaches, but probably not yet ready for primetime. The one thing that it does seem to offer over isolinux that I think is valuable is a gui-ish boot entry selection mechanism. Though it also offers animation and sound support which is more than I find necessary, and probably why it's so complex. On that note however, it would seem the 3rd alternative would be the beloved grub. Apparently grub supports cd's, i.e. http://snapplatform.org/snappix/home/?q=node/4 Does anybody have any experience or knowlege of issues with using grub instead of isolinux (i.e. it's definately less tried and true in the cd-boot scenario, but are there any explicity well known gotchas?) -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Thu Apr 20 19:37:52 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 14:37:52 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] 04userconfig.py small cleanup In-Reply-To: <1145554136.3178.10.camel@localhost> References: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> <4447B349.7080501@adelphia.net> <1145554136.3178.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4447E310.1020003@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >It separates lokkit from ntsysv fine, but still contains duplicate code. >This is what's there now:: > if anaconda_args: > if cmdline or kickstart: > exit > Run interactive > else: > Run interactive > >Because the code is exiting if it finds the anaconda_args it's looking >for we can make things simpler and remove duplicate code like so:: > if anaconda_args: > if cmdline or kickstart: > exit > Run interactive > > > Here we check if anaconda_args isn't empty, and if we aren't in cmdline or kickstart: if anaconda_args != []: for args in anaconda_args: Otherwise when anaconda_args is empty, we check just for lokkit and ntsysv, we already know cmdline nor kickstart are in an empty anaconda_args. J. Hartline From katzj at redhat.com Thu Apr 20 19:42:13 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:42:13 -0400 Subject: bootloaders, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060420182402.89383.qmail@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060420182402.89383.qmail@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145562133.26605.70.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 11:24 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > The one thing that it does seem to offer over isolinux that I think is valuable > is a gui-ish boot entry selection mechanism. You can do graphical boot menus with isolinux -- see the docs for doing menus with a com32 module Jeremy From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Thu Apr 20 23:10:12 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:10:12 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] 04userconfig.py small cleanup In-Reply-To: <4447E310.1020003@adelphia.net> References: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> <4447B349.7080501@adelphia.net> <1145554136.3178.10.camel@localhost> <4447E310.1020003@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145574612.3178.83.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 14:37 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > >It separates lokkit from ntsysv fine, but still contains duplicate code. > >This is what's there now:: > > if anaconda_args: > > if cmdline or kickstart: > > exit > > Run interactive > > else: > > Run interactive > > > >Because the code is exiting if it finds the anaconda_args it's looking > >for we can make things simpler and remove duplicate code like so:: > > if anaconda_args: > > if cmdline or kickstart: > > exit > > Run interactive > > > > > > > Here we check if anaconda_args isn't empty, and if we aren't in cmdline > or kickstart: > if anaconda_args != []: > for args in anaconda_args: > > Otherwise when anaconda_args is empty, we check just for lokkit and > ntsysv, we already know cmdline > nor kickstart are in an empty anaconda_args. Actually, the current code looks for lokkit and ntsysv before checking the anaconda args but doesn't stop the processing until after. So this is less efficient (if efficiency can be talked about in a <50 line context :-). But the point I was making is not what the code does. It's how it's coded to do that. Currently you have to edit two spots in the code anytime you make a change to the lokkit/ntsysv detection. If you add another program you need to check the presence of, you'll have to add the code in two places again. By refactoring it, the code performs the same function as before but we, the programmers, will only have to make changes in one place. Attached patch: - refactors the duplicate code to one location. - moves checking of lokkit/ntsysv after the anaconda_args test because I'm a perfectionist. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kadischi-userconfig.patch Type: text/x-patch Size: 2276 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Thu Apr 20 23:38:56 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:38:56 -0700 Subject: bootloaders, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <20060420182402.89383.qmail@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060420182402.89383.qmail@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145576337.3178.88.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 11:24 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > On that note however, it would seem the 3rd alternative would be the > beloved grub. Apparently grub supports cd's, i.e. > > http://snapplatform.org/snappix/home/?q=node/4 > > Does anybody have any experience or knowlege of issues with using grub instead > of isolinux (i.e. it's definately less tried and true in the cd-boot scenario, > but are there any explicity well known gotchas?) I've used grub via morphix. It has worked fine without any hitch in that scenario. I tried to make my own bootable iso's by following grub's info page instructions and ended up with things that didn't work as expected (non-bootable CDs, CDs that would boot to the grub commandline.) Summary: Seems to work but I'm not the one to ask how to script a script that installs it :-). -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Fri Apr 21 01:34:16 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:34:16 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] 04userconfig.py small cleanup In-Reply-To: <1145574612.3178.83.camel@localhost> References: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> <4447B349.7080501@adelphia.net> <1145554136.3178.10.camel@localhost> <4447E310.1020003@adelphia.net> <1145574612.3178.83.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <44483698.4040008@adelphia.net> Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >But the point I was making is not what the code does. It's how it's >coded to do that. Currently you have to edit two spots in the code >anytime you make a change to the lokkit/ntsysv detection. If you add >another program you need to check the presence of, you'll have to add >the code in two places again. > > We can't -only- check for cmdline or kickstart, because anaconda_args is sometimes empty. Take for example I run kadischi /pub/fc5 -f /tmp/fc5.iso My anaconda_args is empty. If I run kadischi --text /pub/fc5 -f /tmp/fc5.iso My anaconda_args is not empty, however it doesn't state we are using cmdline or kickstart. If I run kadischi --kickstart=/tmp/my.ks.cfg -C /pub/fc5 -f /tmp/fc5.iso My anaconda_args are not empty and I am not only in kickstart, I am in non-interactive cmdline method. I think it is fine.. however you seem to be a dedicated contributor Toshio I am going to have to guess Elliot Lee would allow you to bang on kadischi a bit and give you CVS access.. :-P J. Hartline From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Fri Apr 21 07:18:43 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:18:43 -0700 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] 04userconfig.py small cleanup In-Reply-To: <44483698.4040008@adelphia.net> References: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> <4447B349.7080501@adelphia.net> <1145554136.3178.10.camel@localhost> <4447E310.1020003@adelphia.net> <1145574612.3178.83.camel@localhost> <44483698.4040008@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145603923.5691.20.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2006-04-20 at 20:34 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > >But the point I was making is not what the code does. It's how it's > >coded to do that. Currently you have to edit two spots in the code > >anytime you make a change to the lokkit/ntsysv detection. If you add > >another program you need to check the presence of, you'll have to add > >the code in two places again. > > > > > We can't -only- check for cmdline or kickstart, because > anaconda_args is sometimes empty. > Right. But you do the same thing in the "anaconda_args empty" case as the "anaconda_args does not contain cmdline or kickstart". So... > Take for example I run kadischi /pub/fc5 -f /tmp/fc5.iso > My anaconda_args is empty. > > If I run kadischi --text /pub/fc5 -f /tmp/fc5.iso > My anaconda_args is not empty, however it doesn't state we are using > cmdline or kickstart. > > If I run kadischi --kickstart=/tmp/my.ks.cfg -C /pub/fc5 -f /tmp/fc5.iso > My anaconda_args are not empty and I am not only in kickstart, I am in > non-interactive > cmdline method. > Right. This is the use case currently. It is _also_ the use case my patch implements. The patch just makes the code simpler. Try it. Apply the patch. Comment out the initial 'run("chroot....' call that invokes authconfig so the next steps don't fail prematurely. Then as a _normal_user_ run ./04userconfig.py / ./04userconfig.py / --blah --blahblah These will try to chroot and invoke lokkit interactively. Because you're a normal user they will fail. ./04userconfig.py / --cmdline --blah ./04userconfig.py / --blah --kickstart=fake.cfg These will print "Skipping interactive user configuration.." and exit. > I think it is fine.. however you seem to be a dedicated contributor Toshio > I am going to have to guess Elliot Lee would allow you to bang on > kadischi a bit > and give you CVS access.. :-P Yeah. I suppose I should ask Elliot for access at some point :-) -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 21 08:44:12 2006 From: filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org (Filip Tsachev) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:44:12 +0300 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Problem with xorg.conf In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604141258mb097c2cpc47712fc0530fb02@mail.gmail.com> References: <443F9AF4.3090805@adelphia.net> <13dbfe4f0604141258mb097c2cpc47712fc0530fb02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, On 14/04/06, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > Try removing the driver info, and the hsync vsync settings in the xorg.conf. > > X may do some autoconfiguration if this info isn't present. > > > > I've not tried it myself. Seems reasonable though. > > > > J. Hartline > > I'll give a try to this one too. > but normally what I do (which is not the best solution) is, I patch my > xorg.conf to use vesa during post install . > > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > Could you please send the post install script -- Cheers, Filip http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FilipTsachev From filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 21 08:47:17 2006 From: filip.tsachev at fedoraproject.org (Filip Tsachev) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:47:17 +0300 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Live DVD with packages from Extras In-Reply-To: <1145047298.2471.120.camel@einstein> References: <1144763453.2471.66.camel@einstein> <1145047298.2471.120.camel@einstein> Message-ID: Hello, On 14/04/06, Chris Negus wrote: > When I built a live CD with kadischi for FC5, I just copied a couple of > packages from Extras to my RPMS directory and added each package to an > existing group in comps.xml. If you have a bunch of packages, the better > way may be to add a Fedora Extras category and one or more groups to > your comps.xml. If there is a better way to do it, maybe someone else > can make a suggestion Thanks for the information, well I thought there is some automatic way to generate comps.xml.. which is reading straight from rpm packages, guess not... -- Cheers, Filip http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FilipTsachev From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 21 09:47:38 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:47:38 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] 04userconfig.py small cleanup In-Reply-To: <1145603923.5691.20.camel@localhost> References: <1145468466.3205.4.camel@localhost> <4447B349.7080501@adelphia.net> <1145554136.3178.10.camel@localhost> <4447E310.1020003@adelphia.net> <1145574612.3178.83.camel@localhost> <44483698.4040008@adelphia.net> <1145603923.5691.20.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604210247w79e4d479m60ad861dbd424134@mail.gmail.com> > > I think it is fine.. however you seem to be a dedicated contributor Toshio > > I am going to have to guess Elliot Lee would allow you to bang on > > kadischi a bit > > and give you CVS access.. :-P > > Yeah. I suppose I should ask Elliot for access at some point :-) > > -Toshio Go on, ask him :) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 21 09:54:42 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:54:42 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Problem with xorg.conf In-Reply-To: References: <443F9AF4.3090805@adelphia.net> <13dbfe4f0604141258mb097c2cpc47712fc0530fb02@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604210254t12e5ee08i8d3eba53756c659e@mail.gmail.com> > Could you please send the post install script > > -- > Cheers, > Filip This post install script is not the best solution but its enough for me: Things to take into consideration with my post install script: ( or to change) - vesa driver - french keyboard - default resolution : 1024x768 -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 08xserver.sh Type: application/x-sh Size: 2792 bytes Desc: not available URL: From j.phulewala at gmail.com Fri Apr 21 12:34:01 2006 From: j.phulewala at gmail.com (Jaswinder Singh) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:04:01 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] how to remove firstboot Message-ID: <4448D139.3000804@gmail.com> Hi I have made live CD, and when i boot system from that live CD it shows firstboot at start. Even i made the option NO in /etc/sysconfig/firstboot file. So can anybody help me to solve this problem. Thanks Jaswinder Singh From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 21 13:27:17 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:27:17 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] how to remove firstboot In-Reply-To: <4448D139.3000804@gmail.com> References: <4448D139.3000804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604210627n5860611foc9dd9bb833c0eb8a@mail.gmail.com> something like chroot $1 /sbin/chkconfig --level 345 firstboot off in a post install script ? On 4/21/06, Jaswinder Singh wrote: > Hi > > I have made live CD, and when i boot system from that live CD it > shows firstboot at start. > Even i made the option NO in /etc/sysconfig/firstboot file. So can > anybody help me to solve this problem. > > Thanks > Jaswinder Singh > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Fri Apr 21 16:11:04 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:11:04 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] how to remove firstboot In-Reply-To: <4448D139.3000804@gmail.com> References: <4448D139.3000804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44490418.3090306@adelphia.net> Jaswinder Singh wrote: > Hi > > I have made live CD, and when i boot system from that live CD it > shows firstboot at start. > Even i made the option NO in /etc/sysconfig/firstboot file. So can > anybody help me to solve this problem. Hello. In your installed Kadischi tree open up kadischi/post_install_scripts/06sysconfig.py and find tweak firstboot config. Change YES to NO. Here is what it would look like: shf["RUN_FIRSTBOOT"] = "YES" J. Hartline From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Fri Apr 21 16:24:56 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:24:56 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Fedora Core LiveCD Test x (Snapshot) Message-ID: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> Hi. On fedora-marketing-list I believe, Jeff Spaleta had made a statement he wouldn't mind seeing ISOs built everyday to test out how all of this LiveCD stuff is doing. I have come up with the idea, that not a daily but a weekly snapshot can be made if it is something that would be beneficial to the community. As of now this idea is in the making, and I'd like to hear people's thoughts. The advantages of doing this are these: 1) Simply testing I have the bandwidth and server space needed to do this along with just the cron spun ISOs from RAWHIDE tree provide: 1) A SHA1SUM 2) A package list in plain text The SHA1SUM for integrity, the package list to know what packages are present. Of course this would need to be agreed upon, and since I am not directly affiliated with Redhat, Inc. in any way, Logo and art packaging removal would probably need to be discussed. Albeit the CDs wouldn't be modified in any way except for what you see in Kadischi, a specific set of services, no firewall and a standard non-root user.\ Flames, suggestions, questions and comments welcome. J. Hartline From jdogalt at yahoo.com Fri Apr 21 18:27:07 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Fedora Core LiveCD Test x (Snapshot) In-Reply-To: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20060421182707.30978.qmail@web38403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Hi. > > On fedora-marketing-list I believe, Jeff Spaleta had made > a statement he wouldn't mind seeing ISOs built everyday to test out > how all of this LiveCD stuff is doing. ... regression tests. regression tests. regression tests. hint: I'll be proving a couple folks on this list wrong about non-root builds in the same (painfully but IMO acceptably slow) way as one would do regression tests. That is after I make a 3 line patch to a certain program, so that it understands :=/ -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 21 19:44:31 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 21:44:31 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Fedora Core LiveCD Test x (Snapshot) In-Reply-To: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> References: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604211244n23b7d44el767aa927458c79d5@mail.gmail.com> > I have the bandwidth and server space needed to do this > along with just the cron spun ISOs from RAWHIDE tree > provide: > 1) A SHA1SUM > 2) A package list in plain text > The SHA1SUM for integrity, the package list to know what packages > are present. Of course this would need to be agreed upon, and since I am not > directly affiliated with Redhat, Inc. in any way, Logo and art packaging > removal would > probably need to be discussed. Albeit the CDs wouldn't be modified in > any way except > for what you see in Kadischi, a specific set of services, no firewall > and a standard non-root user.\ Shall we consider these ? 3) one who builds a livecd should inform the list any post install scripts used. Hence we can all work together to improve the test releases. 4) all discussions on the mailing list to better record and more possibilities to enhance the test release. Should we work with the Kadischi or with what Jeremy's provided ? Jasper, I can provide you with an iso by latest on sunday, would this be ok for you? Chitlesh Goorah -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From katzj at redhat.com Fri Apr 21 19:57:01 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:57:01 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Fedora Core LiveCD Test x (Snapshot) In-Reply-To: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> References: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145649421.1262.15.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 11:24 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > On fedora-marketing-list I believe, Jeff Spaleta had made > a statement he wouldn't mind seeing ISOs built everyday to test out > how all of this LiveCD stuff is doing. > > I have come up with the idea, that not a daily but a weekly snapshot can > be made > if it is something that would be beneficial to the community. While I can see this being useful at some point, I don't think we're there yet. I'd like to get all of the infrastructure in place and shoot for doing a test CD basically concurrent with the timing of FC6 test1 (and using FC6 test1). At that point, thinking about doing daily or weekly snapshots starts to be much more interesting. Jeremy From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 21 20:01:57 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:01:57 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Fedora Core LiveCD Test x (Snapshot) In-Reply-To: <1145649421.1262.15.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> References: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> <1145649421.1262.15.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604211301h85ef844ydd72ce68b6303c52@mail.gmail.com> > While I can see this being useful at some point, I don't think we're > there yet. I'd like to get all of the infrastructure in place and shoot > for doing a test CD basically concurrent with the timing of FC6 test1 > (and using FC6 test1). At that point, thinking about doing daily or > weekly snapshots starts to be much more interesting. > > Jeremy I can understand, but the thing is that its not everyday someone's proposing you to host your livecd :) It's hard to find , believe me, the number of mails i had to send just to find someone :) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From katzj at redhat.com Fri Apr 21 20:02:14 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:02:14 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] [Fwd: [stateless] readonly-root support] Message-ID: <1145649734.1262.21.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Per Bill's mail (below), basic readonly root support is now in the development tree. I have a working live CD that boots to a login prompt with a root user basically with the bits I sent mail about earlier in the week. I'm currently in the progress of pushing that to hg.fedoraproject.org, which should hopefully be done shortly (I'll send a follow-up mail with some info once it's up) Also, I've got a test going now with more of a desktop install to see how that's looking while at the same time trying to get rid of the need for a special hacked anaconda and booty package Jeremy -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Bill Nottingham Reply-To: Development discussions related to Fedora Core To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com Subject: [stateless] readonly-root support Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:28:39 -0400 Initial readonly root support will be in tomorrow's initscripts-8.33-1. How to use: - Edit /etc/sysconfig/readonly-root. Set 'READONLY' to 'yes'. - Add any exceptions that need to be writable that aren't in the stock /etc/rwtab to an /etc/rwtab.d file. (See below) ** NOTE: This does not currently work with SELinux. We're working on it. ** How it works: - On boot, we mount a tmpfs (by default, at /var/lib/stateless/writable), and then parse /etc/rwtab and /etc/rwtab.d/* for things to put there. These files have the format: Types are as follows: empty: An empty path. Example: 'empty /tmp' dirs: A directory tree that is copied, empty. Example: 'dirs /var/run' files: A file or directory tree that is copied intact. Example: 'files /etc/resolv.conf' A stock rwtab is shipped with common things that need mounted. We're currently investigating other things. If you come up with new ones, please file a bug. Problems should be filed in bugzilla at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/, product Fedora Core, release devel, component initscripts. Things we know need work: - a simple 'prepare' script for a filesystem that is intended to be mounted read-only - it will update various caches (beagle, locate), clean out extraneous temporary files, and build the SELinux policy module. - using local storage automatically for swap, etc. - the rest of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/StatelessLinux :) Bill From katzj at redhat.com Fri Apr 21 20:05:01 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:05:01 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Fedora Core LiveCD Test x (Snapshot) In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604211301h85ef844ydd72ce68b6303c52@mail.gmail.com> References: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> <1145649421.1262.15.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0604211301h85ef844ydd72ce68b6303c52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1145649901.1262.24.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 22:01 +0200, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > While I can see this being useful at some point, I don't think we're > > there yet. I'd like to get all of the infrastructure in place and shoot > > for doing a test CD basically concurrent with the timing of FC6 test1 > > (and using FC6 test1). At that point, thinking about doing daily or > > weekly snapshots starts to be much more interesting. > > I can understand, but the thing is that its not everyday someone's > proposing you to host your livecd :) > > It's hard to find , believe me, the number of mails i had to send just > to find someone :) Hosting really isn't the hard thing as we're getting to wanting to host _OFFICIAL_ live CDs. There's definitely space on download.fedora Jeremy From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Fri Apr 21 20:08:46 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:08:46 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Fedora Core LiveCD Test x (Snapshot) In-Reply-To: <1145649421.1262.15.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> References: <44490758.6020608@adelphia.net> <1145649421.1262.15.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <44493BCE.9000104@adelphia.net> Jeremy Katz wrote: >While I can see this being useful at some point, I don't think we're >there yet. I'd like to get all of the infrastructure in place and shoot >for doing a test CD basically concurrent with the timing of FC6 test1 >(and using FC6 test1). At that point, thinking about doing daily or >weekly snapshots starts to be much more interesting. > > > Ok. Sounds good. It was an idea mentioned I thought at this stage outside resources could be better put to use for it, if it came to be, until as you said the infrastructure is in place. Alright. J. Hartline From katzj at redhat.com Fri Apr 21 20:42:11 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:42:11 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Re: Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1145652131.1262.33.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Wed, 2006-04-19 at 14:26 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > With this, I am now generating a live cd that can boot with > init=/bin/bash. Getting beyond that is going to want to piggy-back on > what Bill has been doing for readonly root in stateless. But rather > than wait for everything to be perfect, I've gone ahead and put up what > I currently have at http://people.redhat.com/~katzj/livecd/. Included > there are the following: > a) livecd.tar.gz -- this is the main pieces. See the README within for > the basic usage, essentially the same as with kadischi, but a few tweaks > so you can actually run from a working directory. The unfortunate side > is that this mostly based on the state of things from a few weeks ago > given the other stuff that I've been occupied with. As I said, with Bill's stateless changes for read-only root, this can get to a multi-user boot now. To make things easier, I've gone ahead and created an hg repository. You can clone it with hg clone http://hg.fedoraproject.org/hg/fedora/livecd--devel For some more information about Mercurial, I'll just currently point to the information that the OLPC guys have been kind enough to put up at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OLPC/MercurialQuickstart Jeremy From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Sat Apr 22 01:42:47 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:42:47 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] In-Reply-To: <1145652131.1262.33.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <1145652131.1262.33.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <44498A17.6070101@adelphia.net> Jeremy Katz wrote: >As I said, with Bill's stateless changes for read-only root, this can >get to a multi-user boot now. To make things easier, I've gone ahead >and created an hg repository. You can clone it with > hg clone http://hg.fedoraproject.org/hg/fedora/livecd--devel > >For some more information about Mercurial, I'll just currently point to >the information that the OLPC guys have been kind enough to put up at >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OLPC/MercurialQuickstart > > To take Murcurial for a quick spin, I've quickly modified what is present to use SquashFS. This is slightly different than what is in Kadischi CVS, as we pass the ctree dir to post_scripts and we use ctree in 06sysconfig.py, rather than remove the tweak_livecd from it. Attached is livecd-squashfs.hg. J. Hartline -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: livecd-squashfs.hg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 967 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aurag at cae.com Sat Apr 22 16:16:45 2006 From: aurag at cae.com (Hassan Aurag) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 12:16:45 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi and CF cards Message-ID: <1145722606.2708.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello all, I am interested in putting fc5 on a cf card that is part of an all in one touch screen. Most of it should be read-only, but I want a small piece of the CF (separate partition) to be read-write to save some basic config info (ip-address etc....) I would like to know if anyone else has tried before and how did he/she go about it. Any hint is appreciated. Regards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam.stokes at gmail.com Sat Apr 22 23:02:54 2006 From: adam.stokes at gmail.com (adam) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 19:02:54 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] ntp time skew and network failure pre post_install_scripts Message-ID: Anyone seen any issues with ntp clock skew and network interfaces going down before the post install scripts are executed? I am trying to pinpoint the cause of this but not to familiar with anaconda's interworkings. Ive tried manually configuring the network device during install rather than having kickstart do it automatically. Also this only seems to happen on this box with 2 interfaces rather than my other machine with just one interface. simply restarting the network allows me to continue with my post install setup and the only network related scripts that i have residing in post_install_scripts are some yum installs for custom applications. -- ? adam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Sun Apr 23 00:17:14 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] ntp time skew and network failure pre post_install_scripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060423001714.44803.qmail@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- adam wrote: > Anyone seen any issues with ntp clock skew and network interfaces going down > before the post install scripts are executed? I am trying to pinpoint the > cause of this but not to familiar with anaconda's interworkings. see bug 185830. In the bugzilla comments I managed to track down the timezone (build system /etc/localtime being replaced) issue, before deciding I wanted to focus my time on figuring out how to generate livecd's as a non-root user so that such system corruption is not remotely possible. The only solution I've come up with, is to use qemu instead of anaconda rootpath for installs. Which for my purposes is the right answer, but I can understand why some people won't want to put up with 2++ hour build times. -jdog https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2006-March/msg00217.html > > Ive tried manually configuring the network device during install rather than > having kickstart do it automatically. Also this only seems to happen on this > box with 2 interfaces rather than my other machine with just one interface. > > simply restarting the network allows me to continue with my post install > setup and the only network related scripts that i have residing in > post_install_scripts are some yum installs for custom applications. > > -- > ? adam > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From katzj at redhat.com Mon Apr 24 15:25:24 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:25:24 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] In-Reply-To: <44498A17.6070101@adelphia.net> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <1145652131.1262.33.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <44498A17.6070101@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145892325.2402.14.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 20:42 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Jeremy Katz wrote: > >As I said, with Bill's stateless changes for read-only root, this can > >get to a multi-user boot now. To make things easier, I've gone ahead > >and created an hg repository. You can clone it with > > hg clone http://hg.fedoraproject.org/hg/fedora/livecd--devel > > > >For some more information about Mercurial, I'll just currently point to > >the information that the OLPC guys have been kind enough to put up at > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OLPC/MercurialQuickstart > > > To take Murcurial for a quick spin, I've quickly modified what is > present to use SquashFS. > This is slightly different than what is in Kadischi CVS, as we pass the > ctree dir to post_scripts > and we use ctree in 06sysconfig.py, rather than remove the tweak_livecd > from it. > > Attached is livecd-squashfs.hg. Also needed will be updating livecd-mkrootdev to find a loop device and use it for mounting the squashfs. We'll probably also want to write out an /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd with a MODULES line prior to running anaconda, so that the proper modules[1] end up in the initramfs as generated during the install. Jeremy [1] This will also let us add a set of "common" scsi and sata controllers so that people who are using a CD drive attached to one of these could use the live CD From katzj at redhat.com Mon Apr 24 15:26:11 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:26:11 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] In-Reply-To: <1145892325.2402.14.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <1145652131.1262.33.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <44498A17.6070101@adelphia.net> <1145892325.2402.14.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1145892371.2402.16.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2006-04-24 at 11:25 -0400, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Fri, 2006-04-21 at 20:42 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > > Jeremy Katz wrote: > > >As I said, with Bill's stateless changes for read-only root, this can > > >get to a multi-user boot now. To make things easier, I've gone ahead > > >and created an hg repository. You can clone it with > > > hg clone http://hg.fedoraproject.org/hg/fedora/livecd--devel > > > > > >For some more information about Mercurial, I'll just currently point to > > >the information that the OLPC guys have been kind enough to put up at > > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OLPC/MercurialQuickstart > > > > > To take Murcurial for a quick spin, I've quickly modified what is > > present to use SquashFS. > > This is slightly different than what is in Kadischi CVS, as we pass the > > ctree dir to post_scripts > > and we use ctree in 06sysconfig.py, rather than remove the tweak_livecd > > from it. > > > > Attached is livecd-squashfs.hg. > > Also needed will be updating livecd-mkrootdev to find a loop device and > use it for mounting the squashfs. > > We'll probably also want to write out an /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd with a > MODULES line prior to running anaconda, so that the proper modules[1] > end up in the initramfs as generated during the install. ... and in writing my footnote, I lost the last part -- that overall, this looks pretty good Jeremy From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Apr 24 16:11:50 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:11:50 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] In-Reply-To: <1145892325.2402.14.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <1145652131.1262.33.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <44498A17.6070101@adelphia.net> <1145892325.2402.14.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <444CF8C6.8080005@adelphia.net> Jeremy Katz wrote: >Also needed will be updating livecd-mkrootdev to find a loop device and >use it for mounting the squashfs. > > I know earlier versions of NASH employed a findlodev, which is non-functional now. Should we use this sort of approach? >We'll probably also want to write out an /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd with a >MODULES line prior to running anaconda, so that the proper modules[1] >end up in the initramfs as generated during the install. > > >[1] This will also let us add a set of "common" scsi and sata >controllers so that people who are using a CD drive attached to one of >these could use the live CD > > If this doesn't need to be dynamically set, surely something like this should be sufficient: modules = ["squashfs", "loop", "scsi_mod", "sd_mod"] output = open("%s/etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd" %(sysdir,)) output.write(MODULES="%s" %(modules,)) output.close() J. Hartline From katzj at redhat.com Mon Apr 24 17:00:17 2006 From: katzj at redhat.com (Jeremy Katz) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:00:17 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] In-Reply-To: <444CF8C6.8080005@adelphia.net> References: <13dbfe4f0604161135n7e4d9824v7f9aae976d61c21e@mail.gmail.com> <1145471170.5386.49.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <1145652131.1262.33.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <44498A17.6070101@adelphia.net> <1145892325.2402.14.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> <444CF8C6.8080005@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <1145898017.2402.31.camel@orodruin.boston.redhat.com> On Mon, 2006-04-24 at 11:11 -0500, Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Jeremy Katz wrote: > >Also needed will be updating livecd-mkrootdev to find a loop device and > >use it for mounting the squashfs. > > > I know earlier versions of NASH employed a findlodev, which is > non-functional now. > Should we use this sort of approach? Yep, probably the sanest thing to do. Doing it internal to our mkrootdev will be the easiest thing. > >We'll probably also want to write out an /etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd with a > >MODULES line prior to running anaconda, so that the proper modules[1] > >end up in the initramfs as generated during the install. > > > >[1] This will also let us add a set of "common" scsi and sata > >controllers so that people who are using a CD drive attached to one of > >these could use the live CD > > > If this doesn't need to be dynamically set, surely something like this > should be sufficient: > modules = ["squashfs", "loop", "scsi_mod", "sd_mod"] > output = open("%s/etc/sysconfig/mkinitrd" %(sysdir,)) > output.write(MODULES="%s" %(modules,)) > output.close() That doesn't handle controller modules, though. I'd just go for the simple at first of having ahci, ata_piix, aic7xxx and mptscsih. That's probably the sort of thing that overriding with a command-line option makes sense for Jeremy From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 24 16:18:20 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code Message-ID: <20060424161820.9591.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, I managed to get my first proof-of-concept fedora core 5 based livecd iso generated, which utilizes unionfs+squashfs via initramfs. This is absolutely bleeding edge stuff which I only post as a helpful example for others who may be interesting in similar hacking. I do have an iso online, but I won't advertise it's location because I don't want to blow my hosting bandwidth on a 700MB download which isn't really useful in and of itself. But here are the nash and init modifications I made, which illustrate what I had to do, and I'll briefly outline the rest of what I did to manually stitch together the iso. http://viros.org/releases/20060423a.dio/ So the nash I hacked on was the stock fedora core 5 one. And my modifcations started from the truly elegant linux-from-scratch livecd init.c/init.h. Though by the time I packaged it up, I had mostly made my custom vswitchroot and vsetuproot match up pretty closely with the native setuproot and switchroot. When I'm done polishing, there may only be a couple lines of different code, and therefore an argument to those functions might be the right answer (for me). The init (nash script) I started out with was the basic one from a normal hard disk install (via qemu, and not using lvm) fc5 initramfs. As you can tell by a diff, the changes are fairly minimal. In fact, with the above mentions, eventually the difference might just be an argument to setuproot, switchroot, and a new function setupliveunion. Otherwise, the rest of the base system is relatively unmodified, just added unionfs, disabled selinux (it puked, and may not be happy with unionfs, or just requires more polishing of the init sequence), and then changed fstab so it wouldn't try to fsck root. I'll post more progress as it happens (mostly after finals), and my experiences using unionfs and qemu. I'm pretty sure I can get a sweet completely non-root headless scripted build going as soon as I add a harmless 3-line patch to qemu. Beyond that, since qemu is obviously painfully slow, I'll be going down the route of only using kickstarts, and not anacondas gui, which again, for me is the right answer, and especially almost necessary when working with qemu. None of this really impacts kadischi except as idea fodder (my best contribution), but I figure this isn't kadischi-devel-list, it's fedora-livecd-list, so maybe some folks are interested in some other alternatives. Peace... -jdog P.S.- I can't wait to give a 3 layer union a shot, to see if my early-boot-file-segregation idea really does improve non-emulated boot speed due to reduced seek thrashing. (and beyond that, using mkisofs -sort to see if there is a discernable speed increase from putting the boot files on the outside tracks of the cdrom versus the inside). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jdogalt at yahoo.com Mon Apr 24 20:53:29 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code In-Reply-To: <20060424161820.9591.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060424205329.76365.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Jane Dogalt wrote: > Well, I managed to get my first proof-of-concept fedora core 5 based livecd > iso > generated, which utilizes unionfs+squashfs via initramfs. > > This is absolutely bleeding edge stuff which I only post as a helpful example > for others who may be interesting in similar hacking. I do have an iso > online, > but I won't advertise it's location because I don't want to blow my hosting > bandwidth on a 700MB download which isn't really useful in and of itself. Actually, it's still only half done uploading because of a hailstorm/powerouttage last night, and my horrible consumer grade upload bandwidth. ETA 4 hours. If someone wants the url, I'll do it by private email, though like I said, asside from working, it's pretty boring. (and I haven't removed any fedora logos, which gets back to the last distribution issues thread which doesn't seem to have resulted in any change to any wiki/faq/ or documentation) > But > here are the nash and init modifications I made, which illustrate what I had > to > do, and I'll briefly outline the rest of what I did to manually stitch > together > the iso. > > http://viros.org/releases/20060423a.dio/ > > So the nash I hacked on was the stock fedora core 5 one. And my modifcations > started from the truly elegant linux-from-scratch livecd init.c/init.h. > Though > by the time I packaged it up, I had mostly made my custom vswitchroot and > vsetuproot match up pretty closely with the native setuproot and switchroot. > When I'm done polishing, there may only be a couple lines of different code, > and therefore an argument to those functions might be the right answer (for > me). > > The init (nash script) I started out with was the basic one from a normal > hard > disk install (via qemu, and not using lvm) fc5 initramfs. As you can tell by > a > diff, the changes are fairly minimal. In fact, with the above mentions, > eventually the difference might just be an argument to setuproot, switchroot, > and a new function setupliveunion. Note, I am clearly aware of how horrific the code is. I got it working last night, and decided to post that first pass as is. > > Otherwise, the rest of the base system is relatively unmodified, just added > unionfs, disabled selinux (it puked, and may not be happy with unionfs, or > just Apparently I was so sleep deprived I forgot that the issue is still squashfs not supporting xattrs, and that it was unionfs+ext2image that _might_ work with selinux. But going to an ext2 image instead of a squashfs image is trivial. (Though as a manipulable product consumer, I am rather swayed by the squashfs README.performance, and eagerly await xattr support so as to nix any current theoretical usefulness of using an ext2 image). -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 25 03:57:48 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 20:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code In-Reply-To: <20060424205329.76365.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060425035748.24195.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jane Dogalt's soliloqy goes as follows- > > > Well, I managed to get my first proof-of-concept fedora core 5 based livecd > > iso > > generated, which utilizes unionfs+squashfs via initramfs. ... > > So the nash I hacked on was the stock fedora core 5 one. And my > modifcations > > started from the truly elegant linux-from-scratch livecd init.c/init.h. > > Though ... > Apparently I was so sleep deprived I forgot that the issue is still squashfs > not supporting xattrs, and that it was unionfs+ext2image that _might_ work > with > selinux. But going to an ext2 image instead of a squashfs image is trivial. ... So apparently the authors of that elegent linux from scratch init.c/init.h have been some busy little beavers since I grabbed a snap of the files from their trunk less than a week ago. http://wiki.linuxfromscratch.org/livecd/browser/trunk/initramfs/init.h?rev=1495 They are now apparently doing some funky stuff with devicemapper, and it _appears_ they have migrated *away* from squashfs, to a sparse ext2 file image. This is very curious. I suppose they probably have mailinglists I should be following. Maybe they did it for selinux xattr support. Or perhaps uncompressed (but seems odd they wouldn't leave squashfs support in as an option). Or perhaps they are doing the funky trick that someone on fedora-devel mentioned, using devicemapper to create a broken mirror, which can optionally be 'fixed' and 'rebroken' at runtime allowing the install image to be migrated to the hardisk, without having to remount the root fs. Or maybe they are playing devicemapper tricks that I've never even suspected... Very interesting, and very worth watching... -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 25 04:12:15 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: who needs unionfs!, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code Message-ID: <20060425041215.79897.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Or maybe they are playing devicemapper tricks that I've never even > suspected... > > Very interesting, and very worth watching... So apparently... You no longer need unionfs to have a union. Very interesting... (if my guestimation and being too lazy to read up on devicemapper are not leading to my misunderstanding) -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From skunkworx at verizon.net Tue Apr 25 06:41:04 2006 From: skunkworx at verizon.net (Skunk Worx) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 23:41:04 -0700 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <444DC480.10803@verizon.net> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > Hold it, hold it, hold it. > > Responses inline. > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Jane Dogalt wrote: > >> Chitlesh, >> >> And I suspect from a 'legal' point of view, basically anything that goes >> any distance beyond changing the package selection from purely within >> the core and extras repository. Because the instant you do anything >> complicated like adding your own package that hasn't vetted the >> core/extras quality control inclusion process, you are releasing a piece >> of software whose quality will reflect on the fedora name, due to >> implicit association. Certainly if (a) default fedora boot/background >> logos/images/trademarks are left in place. And even to a lesser extent, >> if the fedora-logos and anaconda images packages are left in place (am I >> missing anything?). *** > > We're not the least bit worried about implicit association. Not at all. > It's free software. The only thing we're worried about is *explicit* > association. That's why we protect the marks themselves so rigorously. > From an end user perspective, I'd like to see a final word on the Kadischi project stating that kadischi users can make isos and keep Fedora logos and trademarks intact...even when we include our proprietary kernel drivers and software. We put our own software and drivers under /usr on the DVDs and your logos are plainly visible. In the past we have been proud to say we use Fedora for development and release. A lot of people have tried Fedora after seeing our demos. Does Fedora treat a bootable hard drive image and a bootable iso differently? When are you going to enforce on hard drives? I have the NVIDIA driver and the euro MP3 package added to my home machine...as well as a bunch of proprietary. Do I have to remove all your logos from my hard drive install? Why is the iso so different? Are you planning to use DRM to insure only core/extras are installed if logos and trademarks are present? My brother uses RHEL and proprietary cards, drivers, and software in his lab. RH helped the vendor a few times. No one has asked them to remove all RH logos and trademarks. Is Fedora being held to a different standard than RHEL because it's free? In the future, will I even be able to develop with Fedora? Maybe a core dump will show up in my home directory, or a segfault in the debugger. Does that reflect negatively on the Fedora Project? Who about misspellings in a OO document? Or an errant macro in the spreadsheet? Bad SQL in postgres? MS, SGI, Sun have never asked us to remove their logos and trademarks. We legally distribute hard drive installs of their OS and our software, on disk packs, without any complaint, ever, from any of them. --- John From j.phulewala at gmail.com Tue Apr 25 07:11:08 2006 From: j.phulewala at gmail.com (Jaswinder Singh Phulewala) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:41:08 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] error during rpmbuil for gdm Message-ID: hi when i tried to build rpm from tar.bz2 file of gdm in /usr/src/redhat/SOURCE/ directory then it shows an error at then end.I am putting that error here as follow: M_PREFIX=/var/tmp/gdm-2.6.0.8-root/etc install Making install in po make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/gdm-2.6.0.8/po' make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found make[1]: *** [install-data-yes] Error 127 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/gdm-2.6.0.8/po' make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1 error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.96523 (%install) Please help me to solve this problem. thanks Jassy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 25 07:27:26 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:27:26 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] error during rpmbuil for gdm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <444DCF5E.8030804@adelphia.net> Jaswinder Singh Phulewala wrote: > M_PREFIX=/var/tmp/gdm-2.6.0.8-root/etc install > Making install in po > make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/gdm-2.6.0.8/po > ' > make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found > make[1]: *** [install-data-yes] Error 127 > There is your error right there. make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found J. Hartline From j.phulewala at gmail.com Tue Apr 25 10:20:39 2006 From: j.phulewala at gmail.com (Jaswinder Singh) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:50:39 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] error during rpmbuil for gdm In-Reply-To: <444DCF5E.8030804@adelphia.net> References: <444DCF5E.8030804@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <444DF7F7.50604@gmail.com> Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > Jaswinder Singh Phulewala wrote: > >> M_PREFIX=/var/tmp/gdm-2.6.0.8-root/etc install >> Making install in po >> make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/gdm-2.6.0.8/po >> ' >> make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found >> make[1]: *** [install-data-yes] Error 127 >> > There is your error right there. > make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found then what i should do to fix this problem? > > J. Hartline > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > From alan at balclutha.org Tue Apr 25 10:25:40 2006 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:25:40 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] error during rpmbuil for gdm In-Reply-To: <444DF7F7.50604@gmail.com> References: <444DCF5E.8030804@adelphia.net> <444DF7F7.50604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <444DF924.3040604@balclutha.org> Jaswinder Singh wrote: > Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: > >> Jaswinder Singh Phulewala wrote: >> >>> M_PREFIX=/var/tmp/gdm-2.6.0.8-root/etc install >>> Making install in po >>> make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/gdm-2.6.0.8/po >>> ' >>> make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found >>> make[1]: *** [install-data-yes] Error 127 >>> >> There is your error right there. >> make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found > > > then what i should do to fix this problem? Well, it looks like autoconf/automake hasn't properly resolved something in it's configure tapdance. I suspect that as a relatively new user to Linux, you may not be able to fix this yourself ;) Where did you get the SRPM from? I'd suggest finding a *safe* package, preferably from a non-devel tree and building that. Alan From j.phulewala at gmail.com Tue Apr 25 10:40:33 2006 From: j.phulewala at gmail.com (Jaswinder Singh) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:10:33 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] error during rpmbuil for gdm In-Reply-To: <444DF924.3040604@balclutha.org> References: <444DCF5E.8030804@adelphia.net> <444DF7F7.50604@gmail.com> <444DF924.3040604@balclutha.org> Message-ID: <444DFCA1.6040409@gmail.com> Alan Milligan wrote: >Jaswinder Singh wrote: > > >>Jasper O'neal Hartline wrote: >> >> >> >>>Jaswinder Singh Phulewala wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>M_PREFIX=/var/tmp/gdm-2.6.0.8-root/etc install >>>>Making install in po >>>>make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/gdm-2.6.0.8/po >>>>' >>>>make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found >>>>make[1]: *** [install-data-yes] Error 127 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>There is your error right there. >>>make[1]: install_sh@: Command not found >>> >>> >>then what i should do to fix this problem? >> >> > >Well, it looks like autoconf/automake hasn't properly resolved something >in it's configure tapdance. > >I suspect that as a relatively new user to Linux, you may not be able to >fix this yourself ;) > > i am not new user, if there is any solution plz tell me. >Where did you get the SRPM from? > i got it from http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/source/SRPMS/ > I'd suggest finding a *safe* package, >preferably from a non-devel tree and building that > > >Alan > >-- >Fedora-livecd-list mailing list >Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > > > From alan at balclutha.org Tue Apr 25 10:55:59 2006 From: alan at balclutha.org (Alan Milligan) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:55:59 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] error during rpmbuil for gdm In-Reply-To: <444DFCA1.6040409@gmail.com> References: <444DCF5E.8030804@adelphia.net> <444DF7F7.50604@gmail.com> <444DF924.3040604@balclutha.org> <444DFCA1.6040409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <444E003F.20509@balclutha.org> Jaswinder Singh wrote: > i am not new user, if there is any solution plz tell me. Then I'd suggest your build environment is probably inconsistent. Have you got redhat-rpm-config installed? Are your libtool/automake/autoconf and friends all up the the FC5 patchlevel?? Have you considered using mock to ensure your build environment is consistent with the suggested package build dependencies at least?? Can you rpmbuild any other packages that require the autoconf toolset? Other than that, best you go into the BUILD/gdm-* directory and manually run the make install as per spec instructions and figure out why it barfs. Alan From cnegus at rucls.net Tue Apr 25 14:05:35 2006 From: cnegus at rucls.net (Chris Negus) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:05:35 -0500 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <444DC480.10803@verizon.net> References: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <444DC480.10803@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1145973935.3109.232.camel@einstein> On Mon, 2006-04-24 at 23:41 -0700, Skunk Worx wrote: > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > Hold it, hold it, hold it. > From an end user perspective, I'd like to see a final word on the > Kadischi project stating that kadischi users can make isos and keep > Fedora logos and trademarks intact...even when we include our > proprietary kernel drivers and software. I strongly agree. I think forcing people to remove trademarks will lose a lot of "you can do this with Fedora technology" good PR. It will remove the Fedora presence from live CDs made by good citizens who want to showcase their own applications (and probably spout good words about Fedora in the process). -- Chris Negus From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 25 14:42:33 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <444DC480.10803@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20060425144233.16372.qmail@web38415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Skunk Worx wrote: > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > Hold it, hold it, hold it. > > > > Responses inline. > > > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > > >> Chitlesh, > >> > >> And I suspect from a 'legal' point of view, basically anything that goes > >> any distance beyond changing the package selection from purely within > >> the core and extras repository. Because the instant you do anything > >> complicated like adding your own package that hasn't vetted the > >> core/extras quality control inclusion process, you are releasing a piece > >> of software whose quality will reflect on the fedora name, due to > >> implicit association. Certainly if (a) default fedora boot/background > >> logos/images/trademarks are left in place. And even to a lesser extent, > >> if the fedora-logos and anaconda images packages are left in place (am I > >> missing anything?). *** > > > > We're not the least bit worried about implicit association. Not at all. > > It's free software. The only thing we're worried about is *explicit* > > association. That's why we protect the marks themselves so rigorously. > > > > From an end user perspective, I'd like to see a final word on the > Kadischi project stating that kadischi users can make isos and keep > Fedora logos and trademarks intact...even when we include our > proprietary kernel drivers and software. I too would like to see this in a wiki/faq/doc. > > We put our own software and drivers under /usr on the DVDs and your > logos are plainly visible. In the past we have been proud to say we use > Fedora for development and release. A lot of people have tried Fedora > after seeing our demos. Does Fedora treat a bootable hard drive image > and a bootable iso differently? Thats an interesting angle. I started most of this discussion because of what I saw as the grey area of "is a livecd based on fedora a derivative distribution". You're angle is very interesting and makes the question "is a livecd a derivative distribution, or is it an instance of installation". Then of course, the question is whether fedora would have any issues with having their marks on a "ghosted" install image that someone put online (under a non-fedora name). Personally I suspect the real answer is that we won't get a clear answer, and until someone gives a business reason for redhat/fedora to start putting their lawyers on the clock, the issue will just be ignored, or left in a somewhat ambiguous state. As I've mentioned in my past posts however, I do see both sides of the issue. On the one hand, you want to encourage people to use fedora. On the other hand, if you let them package up "mogrifications", then it is entirely possible that their mogrifcations will be of such poor quality (bugs, usability) that they will reflect badly on the brand. > > When are you going to enforce on hard drives? I have the NVIDIA driver > and the euro MP3 package added to my home machine...as well as a bunch > of proprietary. Do I have to remove all your logos from my hard drive > install? Why is the iso so different? Are you planning to use DRM to > insure only core/extras are installed if logos and trademarks are present? > > My brother uses RHEL and proprietary cards, drivers, and software in his > lab. RH helped the vendor a few times. No one has asked them to remove > all RH logos and trademarks. Is Fedora being held to a different > standard than RHEL because it's free? > > In the future, will I even be able to develop with Fedora? Maybe a core > dump will show up in my home directory, or a segfault in the debugger. > Does that reflect negatively on the Fedora Project? Who about > misspellings in a OO document? Or an errant macro in the spreadsheet? > Bad SQL in postgres? Yeah, we get the hyperbole already. > > MS, SGI, Sun have never asked us to remove their logos and trademarks. > We legally distribute hard drive installs of their OS and our software, > on disk packs, without any complaint, ever, from any of them. They may not have complained, but did they really know you were redistributing? I bet that if you were paying $$ per seat, or as part of a multi-seat license agreement, that the $$ more than offset any of the above concerns. And I bet if you bought a 1000 seat RHEL license, they wouldn't mind at all what you did to 1000 install images of their software. -jdog > > --- > John > > -- > Fedora-livecd-list mailing list > Fedora-livecd-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From gdk at redhat.com Tue Apr 25 15:14:46 2006 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <444DC480.10803@verizon.net> References: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <444DC480.10803@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, Skunk Worx wrote: > From an end user perspective, I'd like to see a final word on the > Kadischi project stating that kadischi users can make isos and keep > Fedora logos and trademarks intact...even when we include our > proprietary kernel drivers and software. So noted. I think we'd all like some way of distinguishing between "official Fedora" and "based on Fedora," and we're just trying to figure out the best way to do that. > We put our own software and drivers under /usr on the DVDs and your > logos are plainly visible. In the past we have been proud to say we use > Fedora for development and release. A lot of people have tried Fedora > after seeing our demos. Does Fedora treat a bootable hard drive image > and a bootable iso differently? > > When are you going to enforce on hard drives? I have the NVIDIA driver > and the euro MP3 package added to my home machine...as well as a bunch > of proprietary. Do I have to remove all your logos from my hard drive > install? Of course not. On your machine, you can do anything you want. > Why is the iso so different? Are you planning to use DRM to insure only > core/extras are installed if logos and trademarks are present? Because the ISO is for redistribution. These guidelines are all about "what you can redistribute and still call it Fedora." --g ------------------------------------------------------------- Greg DeKoenigsberg || Fedora Project || fedoraproject.org Be an Ambassador || http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors ------------------------------------------------------------- From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Apr 25 16:06:08 2006 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper O'neal Hartline) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:06:08 -0500 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1145973935.3109.232.camel@einstein> References: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <444DC480.10803@verizon.net> <1145973935.3109.232.camel@einstein> Message-ID: <444E48F0.2090304@adelphia.net> Chris Negus wrote: >I strongly agree. I think forcing people to remove trademarks will lose >a lot of "you can do this with Fedora technology" good PR. It will >remove the Fedora presence from live CDs made by good citizens who want >to showcase their own applications (and probably spout good words about >Fedora in the process). > > If it is not modified you don't have to remove logos and artwork. IF YOU MODIFY IT, not only must you remove the logos, trademarks and artwork, but you can't call it Fedora either, because it isn't. J. Hartline From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Tue Apr 25 18:22:18 2006 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:22:18 -0700 Subject: devicemapper and stateless? (was Re: who needs unionfs!, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code) In-Reply-To: <20060425041215.79897.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060425041215.79897.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1145989338.3139.17.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2006-04-24 at 21:12 -0700, Jane Dogalt wrote: > > Or maybe they are playing devicemapper tricks that I've never even > > suspected... > > > > Very interesting, and very worth watching... > > So apparently... You no longer need unionfs to have a union. > > Very interesting... (if my guestimation and being too lazy to read up on > devicemapper are not leading to my misunderstanding) > I just saw this go by on planet.fedoraproject.org:: http://blogs.gnome.org/view/markmc/2006/04/25/0 notting or jeremy: Is markmc working on something like this as part of stateless or is the devicemapper work he's doing totally unrelated? Is there anyway to stay abreast of what's currently happening for stateless? Working on liveCD stuff becomes something of a moving target if we don't know what possibilities are actively seeing work in the underlying infrastructure. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From notting at redhat.com Tue Apr 25 18:33:18 2006 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:33:18 -0400 Subject: devicemapper and stateless? (was Re: who needs unionfs!, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code) In-Reply-To: <1145989338.3139.17.camel@localhost> References: <20060425041215.79897.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1145989338.3139.17.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20060425183318.GA25521@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Toshio Kuratomi (toshio at tiki-lounge.com) said: > > > Or maybe they are playing devicemapper tricks that I've never even > > > suspected... > > > > > > Very interesting, and very worth watching... > > > > So apparently... You no longer need unionfs to have a union. > > > > Very interesting... (if my guestimation and being too lazy to read up on > > devicemapper are not leading to my misunderstanding) > > > I just saw this go by on planet.fedoraproject.org:: > http://blogs.gnome.org/view/markmc/2006/04/25/0 > > notting or jeremy: Is markmc working on something like this as part of > stateless or is the devicemapper work he's doing totally unrelated? It's related, but it's not part of the readonly-root support. Using something like device-mapper for that means you'd have to use a block device. What LFS appears to be doing is creating a sparse loop device on tmpfs, and using that as the block layer. It's a interesting idea, and bears investigation. Bill From notting at redhat.com Tue Apr 25 18:37:58 2006 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:37:58 -0400 Subject: devicemapper and stateless? (was Re: who needs unionfs!, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code) In-Reply-To: <20060425183318.GA25521@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20060425041215.79897.qmail@web38413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1145989338.3139.17.camel@localhost> <20060425183318.GA25521@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060425183758.GB25521@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Bill Nottingham (notting at redhat.com) said: > > I just saw this go by on planet.fedoraproject.org:: > > http://blogs.gnome.org/view/markmc/2006/04/25/0 > > > > notting or jeremy: Is markmc working on something like this as part of > > stateless or is the devicemapper work he's doing totally unrelated? > > It's related, but it's not part of the readonly-root support. Using > something like device-mapper for that means you'd have to use a block > device. > > What LFS appears to be doing is creating a sparse loop device on tmpfs, > and using that as the block layer. It's a interesting idea, and bears > investigation. However, one of the downsides of this approach is it (essentially) makes the whole root filesystem read-write, which loses some of the benefits of readonly-root (and makes it a whole lot easier to DoS yourself.) Bill From jdogalt at yahoo.com Tue Apr 25 20:36:03 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: devicemapper and stateless? (was Re: who needs unionfs!, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code) In-Reply-To: <20060425183758.GB25521@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20060425203603.98378.qmail@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Bill Nottingham wrote: > Bill Nottingham (notting at redhat.com) said: > > > I just saw this go by on planet.fedoraproject.org:: > > > http://blogs.gnome.org/view/markmc/2006/04/25/0 > > > > > > notting or jeremy: Is markmc working on something like this as part of > > > stateless or is the devicemapper work he's doing totally unrelated? > > > > It's related, but it's not part of the readonly-root support. Using > > something like device-mapper for that means you'd have to use a block > > device. > > > > What LFS appears to be doing is creating a sparse loop device on tmpfs, > > and using that as the block layer. It's a interesting idea, and bears > > investigation. > > However, one of the downsides of this approach is it (essentially) makes > the whole root filesystem read-write, which loses some of the benefits > of readonly-root (and makes it a whole lot easier to DoS yourself.) This is basically just an alternate implementation of unionfs. I asked a while back what the RH kernel developers thought as far as that, and apparently dm is the implementation they consider worthwhile. I'm currently trying to ping Jeremy Huntwork regarding whats going on with the LFS livecd init code. I.e. why the move away from squashfs to ext2. Is that a limitation of the dm union/overlay/snapshot implementation, or was there another reason. Does anyone here know off the top of their heads if enough of the dm kernel stuff is already in place in fc5 to do this already? I know that complexity can be a bad thing, but I'd like to see livecd generating tools give as much flexibility as can be reasonably modularized by the generator. I.e. I think a good generator, given the read-only-root infra provided by stateless, should give both that as an option, and a union implementation (or two) as options. Since you can set maxsize on tmpfs, using a writable root overlay IMO is a very beneficial feature (at least as an option). Clearly by the large number of livecd implementations that already do this with unionfs+squashfs, I don't think the risks involved with it outweigh the benefits. And in general, having the overlay/union infrastructure opens up a plethora of funtionality options. I.e. slices of the union coming from disk, flash, network... -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From notting at redhat.com Tue Apr 25 21:43:23 2006 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:43:23 -0400 Subject: devicemapper and stateless? (was Re: who needs unionfs!, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] experimental unionfs and initramfs code) In-Reply-To: <20060425203603.98378.qmail@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060425183758.GB25521@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <20060425203603.98378.qmail@web38404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060425214323.GF25521@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Jane Dogalt (jdogalt at yahoo.com) said: > > However, one of the downsides of this approach is it (essentially) makes > > the whole root filesystem read-write, which loses some of the benefits > > of readonly-root (and makes it a whole lot easier to DoS yourself.) > > This is basically just an alternate implementation of unionfs. It's not 100% the same, though - with dm, you're operating at the block device level, so you have to add the copy-on-write device for the whole block device (i.e., the entire filesystem.) Since unionfs is a filesystem, it can theoretically be spliced in at any level of the tree you want, thereby keeping most of the filesystem truly read-only. Bill From skunkworx at verizon.net Wed Apr 26 09:51:34 2006 From: skunkworx at verizon.net (Skunk Worx) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 02:51:34 -0700 Subject: output redistribution issues again, was Re: [Fedora-livecd-list] Kadischi: roadmap from Board meeting ? In-Reply-To: References: <20060418183642.36100.qmail@web38414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <444DC480.10803@verizon.net> Message-ID: <444F42A6.3030402@verizon.net> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Mon, 24 Apr 2006, Skunk Worx wrote: > >> When are you going to enforce on hard drives? I have the NVIDIA driver >> and the euro MP3 package added to my home machine...as well as a bunch >> of proprietary. Do I have to remove all your logos from my hard drive >> install? > > Of course not. On your machine, you can do anything you want. > >> Why is the iso so different? Are you planning to use DRM to insure only >> core/extras are installed if logos and trademarks are present? > > Because the ISO is for redistribution. These guidelines are all about > "what you can redistribute and still call it Fedora." > The term "redistribution" is going to get blurred as the use of PXE or SAAS gets more widespread. No one wants to see an ebay flood of "Fedora" DVDs built from some whacked out iso. I completely agree with that...the bugzilla reports would quickly become polluted. OTOH some linux competitors are actively supporting one-to-many PXE blasts of totally proprietary, custom-built images...even to the point that they've removed the start bar...I've seen it done with Windows. It would be a shame to truncate that (admittedly small) market. --- John From jdogalt at yahoo.com Fri Apr 28 06:10:16 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] FYI- no fedora-logos behaviour Message-ID: <20060428061016.66234.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> For anyone interested- I just tried doing an rpm -e --nodeps fedora-logos to a fresh system, to see what would happen. 1) grub handled it very gracefully 2) rhgb handled it very gracefully 3) gdm handled it well, but not perfectly. I.e. threw up a dialog about the missing theme, and then after clicking OK, went to it's default theme. Pretty good though. 4) /usr/share/backgrounds/images/default.png is the 1600x1200 default gnome fedora logo background, which is not owned by fedora-logos*.rpm 5) fedora main menu button is also not apparently owned by fedora-logos*.rpm I'm guessing 4&5 are 'bugs'. And easily enough replaceable. Likewise I'm sure 3 is pretty trivial to fix as well. I imagine it's far more challenging to make a fedora derivative distribution that includes the anaconda installer, than it is to make a derivative livecd which uses the installer during the derivation process, but not post-distribution. Basically what I'm saying is that this bodes very well for all the livecd-generator output redistribution issues, which are apparently irrelevent if you do an rpm -e --nodeps fedora-logos*.rpm to your system image before distributing it. -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From notting at redhat.com Fri Apr 28 15:03:46 2006 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:03:46 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] FYI- no fedora-logos behaviour In-Reply-To: <20060428061016.66234.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060428061016.66234.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060428150346.GD32172@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Jane Dogalt (jdogalt at yahoo.com) said: > 4) /usr/share/backgrounds/images/default.png is the 1600x1200 default gnome > fedora logo background, which is not owned by fedora-logos*.rpm > > 5) fedora main menu button is also not apparently owned by fedora-logos*.rpm > > I'm guessing 4&5 are 'bugs'. Yes, please file these, if you could. Bill From chitlesh at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 28 16:33:00 2006 From: chitlesh at fedoraproject.org (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:33:00 +0200 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] FYI- no fedora-logos behaviour In-Reply-To: <20060428150346.GD32172@devserv.devel.redhat.com> References: <20060428061016.66234.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060428150346.GD32172@devserv.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0604280933x277c2561s5618f175e8f618b9@mail.gmail.com> On 4/28/06, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Jane Dogalt (jdogalt at yahoo.com) said: > > 4) /usr/share/backgrounds/images/default.png is the 1600x1200 default gnome > > fedora logo background, which is not owned by fedora-logos*.rpm > > > > 5) fedora main menu button is also not apparently owned by fedora-logos*.rpm > > > > I'm guessing 4&5 are 'bugs'. > > Yes, please file these, if you could. > > Bill I doubt that these are among fedora-logos.XX.rpm -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Apr 29 04:07:15 2006 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 23:07:15 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] FYI- no fedora-logos behaviour In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0604280933x277c2561s5618f175e8f618b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060428061016.66234.qmail@web38406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060428150346.GD32172@devserv.devel.redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0604280933x277c2561s5618f175e8f618b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200604282307.20860.nman64@n-man.com> On Friday 28 April 2006 11:33, "Chitlesh GOORAH" wrote: > On 4/28/06, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Jane Dogalt (jdogalt at yahoo.com) said: > > > 4) /usr/share/backgrounds/images/default.png is the 1600x1200 default > > > gnome fedora logo background, which is not owned by fedora-logos*.rpm > > > > > > 5) fedora main menu button is also not apparently owned by > > > fedora-logos*.rpm > > > > > > I'm guessing 4&5 are 'bugs'. > > > > Yes, please file these, if you could. > > > > Bill > > I doubt that these are among fedora-logos.XX.rpm > > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > IIRC, they're part of redhat-artwork. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 191 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jdogalt at yahoo.com Sat Apr 29 05:46:30 2006 From: jdogalt at yahoo.com (Jane Dogalt) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Fedora-livecd-list] FYI- no fedora-logos behaviour In-Reply-To: <200604282307.20860.nman64@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20060429054630.58991.qmail@web38409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- "Patrick W. Barnes" wrote: > On Friday 28 April 2006 11:33, "Chitlesh GOORAH" > > wrote: > > On 4/28/06, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > Jane Dogalt (jdogalt at yahoo.com) said: > > > > 4) /usr/share/backgrounds/images/default.png is the 1600x1200 default > > > > gnome fedora logo background, which is not owned by fedora-logos*.rpm > > > > > > > > 5) fedora main menu button is also not apparently owned by > > > > fedora-logos*.rpm > > > > > > > > I'm guessing 4&5 are 'bugs'. > > > > > > Yes, please file these, if you could. > > > > > > Bill > > > > I doubt that these are among fedora-logos.XX.rpm > > > > -- > > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com > > > > IIRC, they're part of redhat-artwork. #4 at least- rpm -qf /usr/share/backgrounds/images/default.png desktop-backgrounds-basic-2.0-31 #5 does appear (/usr/share/icons/Bluecurve/96x96/apps/gnome-main-menu.png?) to be owned by fedora-logos, I'm guessing it got copied to a homedir during login (before I rpm -e'd fedora-logos) Speaking of redhat-artwork. I've heard several mentions on this list that fedora-logos is the only issue with redistribution. Seems odd no one has ever mentioned redhat-artwork. Back in the day when fedora was supposedly a distinct community entity, one could take the reasonable implication that if fedora could use redhat-artwork, any other community project could as well. I notice that the centos strategy appears to be keeping redhat-artwork as an rpm, but (I haven't inspected that closely) scraping some red hats out of it. I'm curious- All the bluecurve stuff in redhat-artwork- Does redhat stake claim to that? I guess I need to actually install centos and see specifically what they do, as they seem to be the standard reference for how to deal with making a derivative distro and respecting the copyright/trademark guidelines of the "upstream vendor". -jdog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com