The big What-Why-How

[Marc Wiriadisastra]

On Fri, 2005-09-09 at 00:26 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On 9/8/05, Marc Wiriadisastra <marc.w at smlintl.com.au> wrote:
> > One difference that I noticed for example which isn't a bug report but a
> > comment.  RHEL sound works on my laptop, ubuntu sound works on my
> > desktop FC4 sound doesn't work?  
> 
> bugs are bugs are bugs are bugs... did you happen to file a bug about
> your specific hardware during the test phase leading up to fc4
> release? Or did you run into this after release.  You make it sound
> like there was a delibrate effort to make sound not work for you.
> Perhaps its just a bug.. a hardware specific bug... that didn't get
> reported during testing. Go watch the upstream alsa list or the kernel
> lists..and watch how often hardware specific bugs about specific
> peices of hardware pop up.  Is there room for improvement for how to
> organize manpower and hardware coverage during test releases leading
> to a release...yes.. of course.
> 
No only just happened this week. Brand new FC4 install.  

> I will point out howver that Ubuntu is not immune to sound problems
> either appearently.....
> http://linux.iuplog.com/default.asp?item=94639
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=27583
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=47048
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=21211
> <over the top alarmist mode>
> Dear god no! a desktop oriented distro that has sound problems! That
> ubuntu project has clearly failed their target mission! They are
> doomed!
> </over the top>
> 
That wasn't what I was getting at what I was getting at is that they
make it simple thats what my message was.  I understand bugs happen and
occur constantly its part of life.  What I'm saying is the install
itself and what is bundled in is targeted towards the new and
inexperienced user thats all.  I'm not saying bugs don't exist.

> <rational empathic human> 
> I see some rather familiar fc4 sound problems in those ubuntu hardware
> problem forums.
> As I expected really.. since most of the problems even in FC4 appear
> to be issues with bad default settings for cards in upstream Alsa. And
> well.. isnt it better for everyone to work these problems out as part
> of upstream alsa so everybody downstream gets the fix?
> 
> bugs are bugs are bugs are bugs 

I know that and it wasn't a criticism it was a comparison in my
experience and its just that my experience.  I have a lot of friends how
I have asked for them to try linux and always recommend Fedora to them
and they seem to have the same issues as I did.  I'm not being critical
of Fedora in the sense that I don't like it I use it.  I'm just relaying
what my friends have situations with.  

> 
> Please take your personal experience with a grain of salt and try not
> to extrapolate that out too far into the rest of the community. I
> don't want to confuse you with an OSnews reviewer.  I think you should
> avoid making arguments that use the phrase "majority of the time" when
> making any cross-comparative statement... because I'm pretty sure
> noone in this list including you has any sense of what "majority of
> the time" experiences really are for any distro across the vast arrary
> of real-world hardware... noone has hard data on that.
> 
> bugs are bugs are bugs are bugs. 

Again I agree with you bugs are bugs. If I'm that far off the mark which
I prefer to think I'm not that bad in judging experiences.  Our local
LUG in WA used to recommend Fedora then they have moved to Mandrake then
now they have switched to Ubuntu.  I disagree personally but that means
nothing. I have numerous other examples one simple one is look at distro
watch.

I'm not going to go any further because I just re-read it and that was
one point of the overall message that was in no relation to what I was
trying to get across.  So forget it I can't be bothered going over this.
I was making a point relating to marketing and somehow its been turned
towards my personal installation and how its a bug.