Fedora Marketing Meeting 2008-02-28 IRC log
jmbabich at gmail.com
Thu Feb 28 21:42:31 UTC 2008
Feb 28 23:00:01 <EvilBob> time
Feb 28 23:00:03 <gregdek_home> HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Feb 28 23:00:09 <JonRob> haha
Feb 28 23:00:11 <kushal> gregdek_gone, same to you :)
Feb 28 23:00:26 * gregdek_home looks around.
Feb 28 23:00:31 * spevack waves at gregdek_home
Feb 28 23:00:44 <gregdek_home> joadams: Are you here?
Feb 28 23:00:55 <joadams> yes, i am here
Feb 28 23:00:58 <gregdek_home> Excellent.
Feb 28 23:01:13 <gregdek_home> So lemme blather a bit, and then we'll
dig into the agenda.
Feb 28 23:01:16 <gregdek_home> First of all:
Feb 28 23:01:28 <gregdek_home> Thanks for folks showing up. I think
we all think this stuff is important.
Feb 28 23:01:32 <gregdek_home> About how I run meetings:
Feb 28 23:01:40 <gregdek_home> *Agenda uber alles.*
Feb 28 23:01:45 <gregdek_home> And today's agenda is here:
Feb 28 23:01:54 <gregdek_home> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks
Feb 28 23:01:59 <JonRob> gregdek_home: quick questino - is somebody logging?
Feb 28 23:02:00 <gregdek_home> And we will move down it point by point.
Feb 28 23:02:14 <gregdek_home> JonRob: Yes, I'm logging.
Feb 28 23:02:17 <JonRob> cool
Feb 28 23:02:21 <gregdek_home> But backups are always welcome. :)
Feb 28 23:02:33 <gregdek_home> When we're done with agenda, we can go free-flow.
Feb 28 23:02:37 <gregdek_home> Any questions?
Feb 28 23:02:59 <gregdek_home> Looks like not.
Feb 28 23:03:15 <gregdek_home> OK.
Feb 28 23:03:40 <gregdek_home> Item 1: Marketing Schedule!
Feb 28 23:03:48 <gregdek_home> This does not appear to have an owner.
Feb 28 23:03:59 <poelcat> what's involved?
Feb 28 23:04:04 * poelcat will likely take it
Feb 28 23:04:05 <gregdek_home> Unclear.
Feb 28 23:04:09 <spevack> i have some ideas
Feb 28 23:04:19 <gregdek_home> You have the floor, spevack.
Feb 28 23:04:33 <spevack> (1) JonRob recently said "it's about time
for beta to come out, maybe we should start thinking about the
Feb 28 23:04:40 <spevack> so that's an obvious deliverable each release
Feb 28 23:04:44 * gregdek_home has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection
reset by peer))
Feb 28 23:04:45 <spevack> that could be given a schedule
Feb 28 23:04:53 <spevack> additionally
Feb 28 23:05:12 <spevack> the creation of banner ads, the "countdown"
ad, etc. so that things can be ready with lots of lead time
Feb 28 23:05:22 <spevack> this could include the CD/DVD artwork.
Feb 28 23:05:32 <spevack> EOF for now, maybe this will generate other ideas
Feb 28 23:05:33 * gregdek_home
(n=gdk at cpe-071-070-223-190.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #fedora-mktg
Feb 28 23:05:39 <kushal> gregdek_gone, wb
Feb 28 23:05:40 <JonRob> spevack: +1 on countdown ad etc being scheduled
Feb 28 23:05:46 <joadams> yeah, i think the intent was to create a
gantt-chart-like schedule with all major events leading up to the
release, with milestone dates, and dependencies noted on the schedule
Feb 28 23:05:49 <JonRob> but not so sure about cd/dvd artwork
Feb 28 23:05:57 <gregdek_home> Sigh.
Feb 28 23:06:00 <JonRob> art team haven't finalised release artwork yet
Feb 28 23:06:05 <spevack> gregdek_home: should i re-post what i said for you?
Feb 28 23:06:11 <gregdek_home> Yes, please.
Feb 28 23:06:12 <tw2113> art team is still hammering out the official theme
Feb 28 23:06:14 <spevack> JonRob: i know they are still working on the artwork.
Feb 28 23:06:21 <kushal> <spevack> that could be given a schedule
Feb 28 23:06:21 <kushal> <spevack> additionally
Feb 28 23:06:21 <kushal> <spevack> the creation of banner ads, the
"countdown" ad, etc. so that things can be ready with lots of lead
Feb 28 23:06:21 <kushal> <spevack> this could include the CD/DVD artwork.
Feb 28 23:06:21 <kushal> <spevack> EOF for now, maybe this will
generate other ideas
Feb 28 23:06:30 <EvilBob> poelcat has done an awesome job with other schedules
Feb 28 23:06:33 <gregdek_home> Are we talking about a more generic
"what happens during each release" schedule, or a schedule specific to
Feb 28 23:06:34 * poelcat notes we have an "art schedule" in TaskJuggler
Feb 28 23:06:46 <spevack> gregdek_home: i was suggesting that the
ReleaseSummary is a marketing task that happens each release
Feb 28 23:06:53 <gregdek_home> Ah, ok.
Feb 28 23:06:58 <spevack> and that the planning of a rough draft,
candidate, final draft of that maps really well to the release
Feb 28 23:07:10 * Karlik|nb (n=Karlik at fedora/Karlik) has joined #fedora-mktg
Feb 28 23:07:11 <EvilBob> spevack: and it needs to be coordinated with
the docs group
Feb 28 23:07:11 <spevack> ie: once Feature freeze hits, you can start
writing about the new features
Feb 28 23:07:23 <gregdek_home> poelcat: If you were running this
project, how would you track milestones?
Feb 28 23:07:43 <poelcat> not sure what you mean
Feb 28 23:07:53 <poelcat> look at today() and compare to the schedule?
Feb 28 23:07:56
Feb 28 23:08:00 <gregdek_home> What mechanisms do you use to keep
other subprojects inline?
Feb 28 23:08:13 <poelcat> all I need are "marketing tasks" and I can
create a separate schedule
Feb 28 23:08:29 <gregdek_home> Ah, ok.
Feb 28 23:08:35 <poelcat> gregdek_home: nothing fancy right now
Feb 28 23:08:51 <gregdek_home> And how does the art team keep
themselves on track? Do they revisit that schedule every week or two?
Feb 28 23:09:01 <kushal> gregdek_gone, yes
Feb 28 23:09:16 <poelcat> gregdek_home: note the art schdule has
Feb 28 23:09:22 <kushal> gregdek_gone, they are planning to have a new
round before final
Feb 28 23:09:45 <poelcat> and if we have a mkting based schedule we
can dependency link to the art tasks
Feb 28 23:09:48 <gregdek_home> How do items get added to that
schedule? poelcat, do you manage that?
Feb 28 23:09:57 <poelcat> yes
Feb 28 23:10:19 <mether> gregdek_home: yes
Feb 28 23:10:21 <kushal> gregdek_gone, it is "some extra time" with
round 3 actually
Feb 28 23:10:42 <mether> well the current art team plans seems to be
to target RC instead of beta release
Feb 28 23:11:31 <gregdek_home> poelcat: So I'm looking at that
schedule, and I don't see owners. Where is that tracked?
Feb 28 23:12:04 <poelcat> gregdek_home: owners are not tracked at this time
Feb 28 23:12:16 <gregdek_home> OK.
Feb 28 23:12:22 <spevack> from a timeline perspective, i think the art
schedule looks really good. Gets everything done with a lot of lead
Feb 28 23:12:36 <gregdek_home> So here's my take...
Feb 28 23:12:43 <gregdek_home> ...and other folks can tell me what they think.
Feb 28 23:13:08 <poelcat> gregdek_home: the first scheduling iteration
was wikis; this the .2, but assigning resources (people/accountable
parties) woul be .3
Feb 28 23:13:15 * red_alert (n=ill at 84-75-181-35.dclient.hispeed.ch)
has joined #fedora-mktg
Feb 28 23:13:44 <gregdek_home> I don't want to start with schedule,
because I don't think we've done "Fedora marketing" enough to "get it"
quite yet. I want to start with "Tasks" tracked on the wiki, with
regular meetings, and see where we end up at.
Feb 28 23:14:00 <poelcat> fair enough
Feb 28 23:14:29 <gregdek_home> Art has been though this iteration a
few times, so hopefully we can get there.
Feb 28 23:14:31 <spevack> gregdek_home: +1. I like the idea of having
a set of defined tasks that we know will always happen, with owners.
Some of those tasks repeat each release (the ReleaseSummary) and
others are one-off.
Feb 28 23:14:38 <spevack> by the way
Feb 28 23:14:43 <spevack> if anyone quesitons the value of the release summary
Feb 28 23:15:00 <spevack> every time I have done the "we've released
Fedora, now Max (and soon Paul F.) gives the press interviews
Feb 28 23:15:05 <spevack> that release summary is INCREDIBLE
Feb 28 23:15:13 <gregdek_home> :)
Feb 28 23:15:22 * gregdek_home knocks "schedule" out of the wiki for now.
Feb 28 23:15:25 <gregdek_home> Moving on!
Feb 28 23:15:34 <spevack> and it's in the top 5 pages viewed in all of
Feb 28 23:15:35 * Bonaparte (n=bonapart at 22.214.171.124) has left
Feb 28 23:15:44 <gregdek_home> Next item: Marketing Plan!
Feb 28 23:15:51 <gregdek_home> joadams: Tell us what's up!
Feb 28 23:16:15 <joadams> ok, i've gone out and looked at a bunch of
marketing plans ...
Feb 28 23:16:23 <joadams> ... both real ones and templates
Feb 28 23:16:42 <joadams> and i've pulled together a template
"skeleton" that i think covers the major areas we'd want to cover for
Feb 28 23:16:59 <joadams> haven't been able to post it to the wiki yet
(sorry), but i emailed a PDF to the list this morning
Feb 28 23:17:15 <joadams> the thinking was that we'd put it out there,
and team members could claim ownership of parts / sections
Feb 28 23:17:23 <joadams> with a deadline for completion, of course
Feb 28 23:17:30 * gregdek_home nods.
Feb 28 23:17:31 <mether> joadams: I looked at it and I could fill in
atleast a few sections
Feb 28 23:17:44 <gregdek_home> Does it make sense to put this document
(a) on wiki, or (b) on gobby? Thoughts?
Feb 28 23:18:25 <EvilBob> I do not see this pdf in my mail box
Feb 28 23:18:58 <joadams> it's in a "re:" message to greg's "CONFIRMED" message
Feb 28 23:19:08 * EvilBob found it now
Feb 28 23:19:20 <mether> gregdek_home: gobby is probably a good idea
Feb 28 23:19:22 * mpalej (n=mpalej at nat/redhat/x-8ce5e4d203d21ff7) has
Feb 28 23:19:23 <gregdek_home> joadams: So I understand the goal. The
goal is for all of us to answer the key questions in this plan, like
"who's our audience?" and then proceed to the actual deliverables...
Feb 28 23:19:55 <joadams> yes ... taking the time to articulate the
items in this plan should get everyone in alignment and "grease the
wheels" for all downstream activity
Feb 28 23:20:25 <joadams> though i don't want to underestimate what it
will take to get to agreement on more subjective items like "who is
the target", "what should our main marketing messages be", etc.
Feb 28 23:20:42 <gregdek_home> Which makes it pretty much the most
important activity we have, and the one that will create the most
(argument | energy | friction | name-calling). :)
Feb 28 23:20:55 <joadams> i assume (?) that some of these items will
be up for debate
Feb 28 23:21:02 <kanarip> not if it were up to me greg ;-)
Feb 28 23:21:02 <gregdek_home> I should hope!
Feb 28 23:21:07 <gregdek_home> Heh.
Feb 28 23:21:22 <gregdek_home> OK, so this is why I think this needs
to be on wiki quickly.
Feb 28 23:21:33 * bpepple|lt
(email@example.com) has joined
Feb 28 23:21:43 <gregdek_home> I would say gobby, but I'm not sure
everyone's up to speed on it yet.
Feb 28 23:21:57 <gregdek_home> mether: Do you need a fedora account to
Feb 28 23:22:03 <mether> gregdek_home: yes
Feb 28 23:22:08 <JonRob> gregdek_home: it looks like it's already there?
Feb 28 23:22:12 <gregdek_home> Really?
Feb 28 23:22:13 <spevack> JonRob: link?
Feb 28 23:22:17 <JonRob> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/MarketingPlan
Feb 28 23:22:31 <JonRob> i haven't checked carefully
Feb 28 23:22:35 <gregdek_home> Brilliant!
Feb 28 23:22:37 <JonRob> but the content looks more or less the same
Feb 28 23:22:38 <spevack> certainly looks like a skeleton to me
Feb 28 23:22:42 <gregdek_home> Whoever did that gets a gold star!
Feb 28 23:22:46 <JonRob> needs wikifying though
Feb 28 23:22:55 <JonRob> proper sections/contents etc
Feb 28 23:22:58 <gregdek_home> Ah, it was quaid, maybe.
Feb 28 23:22:59 <mether> gregdek_home: karsten wade
Feb 28 23:23:09 <EvilBob> Karsten must not be sick enough
Feb 28 23:23:14 <gregdek_home> Where is he, anyway? Oh well. I'll
give him a big kiss when I see him.
Feb 28 23:23:21 <gregdek_home> OK, so there's the skeleton!
Feb 28 23:23:22 <EvilBob> gregdek_home: he is ill
Feb 28 23:23:26 <gregdek_home> :(
Feb 28 23:23:31 <gregdek_home> Well, scratch that kiss idea, then.
Feb 28 23:23:36 <EvilBob> +1
Feb 28 23:23:47 <gregdek_home> joadams: Does that URL look good to you?
Feb 28 23:24:03 <gregdek_home> And then, how do we proceed? Do we all
want to edit the wiki and add comments?
Feb 28 23:24:15 <joadams> yes ... i sent this doc to karsten a few
weeks ago, and it looks like he transferred it all over as-is
Feb 28 23:24:36 * gregdek_home goes to update tasks list, one moment...
Feb 28 23:24:58 <JonRob> i'm working on wikifying it this minute if
people are happy for that?
Feb 28 23:25:02 <JonRob> proper sections etc
Feb 28 23:25:37 <joadams> my question was, do you think that people
will need a little blurb or explanation of what should go in each
section, or is it pretty self-explanatory?
Feb 28 23:25:40 <tw2113> i figure, at least it's there
Feb 28 23:26:03 <JonRob> joadams: some bits are less so than others
Feb 28 23:26:06 <gregdek_home> JonRob: You go, thanks.
Feb 28 23:26:12 * gregdek_home hrms.
Feb 28 23:26:16 * rharrison (n=rharriso at nat/cisco/x-abe73383b17ca176)
has joined #fedora-mktg
Feb 28 23:26:36 <gregdek_home> Every one of these subsections could
lead to pretty in-depth discussion.
Feb 28 23:26:41 <gregdek_home> Thinking of the right way to manage that.
Feb 28 23:27:05 <mether> gregdek_home: what would be great is the
software that FSF used to manage GPLv3
Feb 28 23:27:11 <mether> gregdek_home: it is called stet
Feb 28 23:27:31 <mether> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stet_(software)
Feb 28 23:27:54 * gregdek_home hrms.
Feb 28 23:28:17 <gregdek_home> OK, so.
Feb 28 23:28:19 <EvilBob> gregdek_home: on the wiki we can create sub
pages and include them in a final (complete) doc
Feb 28 23:28:29 <gregdek_home> Yeah, maybe.
Feb 28 23:28:43 <EvilBob> the same way we do the release notes beats
Feb 28 23:28:47 <gregdek_home> joadams: What are the critical path
questions, as you see them?
Feb 28 23:29:03 <gregdek_home> Which of these questions do we need to
be answering first? Should we just work top-down?
Feb 28 23:29:10 <joadams> by that, do you mean the most important
sections to complete?
Feb 28 23:29:14 <gregdek_home> joadams: Yes.
Feb 28 23:29:31 <joadams> no, i wouldn't recommend top-down ... some
of the later sections are important too
Feb 28 23:30:39 <joadams> gut feeling: target audience (customer) is
most important, brand positioning second, marketing messages third,
strategies & tactics #4
Feb 28 23:30:55 <joadams> that seems the critical path to me
Feb 28 23:31:16 <joadams> with a logical train of thought
Feb 28 23:31:18 <mether> what is brand positioning. I think I need a
explanation of what some of these things mean
Feb 28 23:31:21 <joadams> the other pieces can fill in
Feb 28 23:31:40 <joadams> brand positioning is what you stand for ...
what you want the brand to represent in the hearts and minds of your
Feb 28 23:32:03 <joadams> how are you different? unique vs.
competition? what do you "own"?
Feb 28 23:32:17 <mether> ok and marketing messages is figuring out how
to convey the information to others?
Feb 28 23:32:18 <JonRob> seems like that's strongly related to target
audience to me?
Feb 28 23:33:04 <EvilBob> freedom, backroom deals, I mean openness and
Feb 28 23:33:08 <joadams> exactly ... positioning is internal and
strategic ... messages are the translation into external
communications / campaigns / messages for external audiences
Feb 28 23:33:32 <joadams> everything should stem from the definition
of your customer / target audience(s)
Feb 28 23:33:35 <kanarip> brand positioning is what you think you need
to do to get anyone's gut feeling to be the feeling you want them to
Feb 28 23:34:16 <joadams> brand positioning is an articulation of who
you are and what you aspire to be ... in the customer's mind (not
Feb 28 23:34:30 <kanarip> right
Feb 28 23:34:47 <mether> i see a template. can we get an example?
Feb 28 23:34:52 <jmbuser> customer perception
Feb 28 23:34:56 <mether> of a full document
Feb 28 23:35:04 <mether> with all the sections filled in
Feb 28 23:35:10 <mether> hypothetical or real
Feb 28 23:35:30 <joadams> i can find some good examples of each
section, but since i pieced this together, i don't know that there is
a single plan that covers all of these sections
Feb 28 23:35:46 <mether> ah ok. then examples would be good too
Feb 28 23:35:50 <joadams> i'll take that as a follow-up
Feb 28 23:36:24 <mether> now do we figure this all out between a few
people or do we start a flame fest in fedora devel list?
Feb 28 23:36:40 <JonRob> i don't think we have much choice but to
start a flame fest
Feb 28 23:36:43 <joadams> that's the $100,000 question : )
Feb 28 23:36:57 <JonRob> or at least an open call to everyone to let
them know what's going to go down on say f-mktg-list
Feb 28 23:37:17 <mether> that would be a first step before we go down
the fedora-devel drain
Feb 28 23:37:35 <mether> i think a open question to fedora-devel is
Feb 28 23:37:58 <mether> esp since our fedora weekly news devel beats
guy is not on the scene
Feb 28 23:38:33 <mether> anything else we need to discuss?
Feb 28 23:38:47 * poelcat thinks we need 'superdelegates' to decide
Feb 28 23:38:51 <poelcat> ;-)
Feb 28 23:38:57 <gregdek_home> I think we'll have limited resources,
and I don't know how much time we'll have for this whole plan...
Feb 28 23:39:00 <gregdek_home> Also, I'm not sure how rewarding a
piecemeal approach will be here.
Feb 28 23:39:12 * gregdek_home is fretting.
Feb 28 23:39:16 <gregdek_home> So here's my question.
Feb 28 23:39:22 <gregdek_home> Do we need to complete this whole
marketing plan before F9, or is it something that we expect to make
incremental progress on over time? Because it looks like we're
working on pieces of this Big Plan in parallel.
Feb 28 23:39:27 <gregdek_home> Whoa, lag.
Feb 28 23:39:29 <gregdek_home> Hello?
Feb 28 23:39:50 <spevack> hi :)
Feb 28 23:39:50 <EvilBob> Hi gregdek_home
Feb 28 23:39:56 <jmbuser> gregdek_nome: hi
Feb 28 23:39:59 <gregdek_home> Gah!
Feb 28 23:40:01 * gregdek_home reads up/
Feb 28 23:40:02 <spevack> my view: this is something we can make
incremental progress on
Feb 28 23:40:06 <mether> before Fedora 9 as a goal
Feb 28 23:40:07 <poelcat> I think we need *something* for F9
Feb 28 23:40:15 <gregdek_home> Right.
Feb 28 23:40:26 <gregdek_home> That was the question I was asking to
no one while I was disconnected.
Feb 28 23:40:30 <joadams> i agree ... if we want a coordinated
marketing effort for F9, there needs to be a plan
Feb 28 23:40:31 <JonRob> i think we're a long way along with F9 aleady
Feb 28 23:40:39 <poelcat> or mostly done for F9 so F10 is in sync w/ "the plan"
Feb 28 23:40:49 <JonRob> i'm +1 on the latter
Feb 28 23:40:51 <EvilBob> poelcat: +1
Feb 28 23:40:54 <spevack> so stickster_mtg will be a *major* player in
the Public Conversations about F9.
Feb 28 23:41:02 <spevack> how do we get him involved in a way that
doesn't add to his burdens?
Feb 28 23:41:07 <joadams> ideally, this would be revisited either each
year or with each release
Feb 28 23:41:09 <spevack> in other words
Feb 28 23:41:20 <spevack> how do we make sure that the things Paul is
saying to the press map with the things we are saying in our blogs,
Feb 28 23:41:35 <JonRob> seems to me the release summary is the way to
go with that?
Feb 28 23:41:40 <spevack> to me, *that* is a major part of Fedora 9 go
to market planning
Feb 28 23:41:44 <kushal> spevack, common doc for both
Feb 28 23:41:44 <jmbuser> FWN helps
Feb 28 23:41:46 <spevack> JonRob: i agree.
Feb 28 23:41:59 <spevack> but it's more than that
Feb 28 23:42:03 <spevack> and that's how it ties back to this topic
Feb 28 23:42:09 <spevack> the release summary is specific to this release
Feb 28 23:42:12 <spevack> obviously
Feb 28 23:42:14 <JonRob> yeah
Feb 28 23:42:18 <spevack> but the way you select things from the release summary
Feb 28 23:42:27 <spevack> and present them in the terms of "a user of type $FOO"
Feb 28 23:42:35 <spevack> is part of the "who is our audience" question
Feb 28 23:42:40 <JonRob> ah i c
Feb 28 23:42:44 <spevack> am i just blathering?
Feb 28 23:42:49 <spevack> or does that resonate with folks?
Feb 28 23:42:56 <gregdek_home> Here's my question. How does the Big
Marketing Plan document -- which is strategic, and should
theoretically drive all discussion, and will take a while to nail --
match up with the tactical questions?
Feb 28 23:43:05 <spevack> gregdek_home: exactly what i am trying to say
Feb 28 23:43:09 <gregdek_home> Heh.
Feb 28 23:43:15 <gregdek_home> So here's my take.
Feb 28 23:43:24 <gregdek_home> The strategic document will Take A While.
Feb 28 23:43:36 <gregdek_home> The tactical stuff can move in
parallel, and it won't always be perfect.
Feb 28 23:43:57 <JonRob> gregdek_home: definitely - i think this is
the approach that has natually developed in the past weeks too
Feb 28 23:44:01 <gregdek_home> Maybe we should commit to iterating
over pieces of The Big Plan every week.
Feb 28 23:44:09 <gregdek_home> But keep other work moving as well.
Feb 28 23:44:15 <gregdek_home> And match them up as best we can.
Feb 28 23:44:19 <gregdek_home> Does that make sense?
Feb 28 23:44:35 <jmbuser> gregdek_home: +1
Feb 28 23:44:39 <EvilBob> we are just getting back in the swing of
things, I don't see how we can target F9 for everything this late in
Feb 28 23:45:00 <joadams> i don't think we should be too intimidated
-- normally, i've seen marketing managers put together a marketing
plan in a matter of 3-4 weeks ... with a divide-and-conquer approach,
we should gain some efficiencies (which could be negated by the
community edit / debate effect)
Feb 28 23:45:12 <EvilBob> do what we can now and create a foundation for F10
Feb 28 23:45:19 * gregdek_home nods.
Feb 28 23:45:20 <gregdek_home> So.
Feb 28 23:45:43 <gregdek_home> Let's pick some pieces of the plan and
Feb 28 23:46:27 <gregdek_home> JonRob: Are you editing the wiki for
the MarketingPlan page?
Feb 28 23:46:35 <JonRob> gregdek_home: done
Feb 28 23:47:08 <gregdek_home> Do people actually *want* to own pieces
of this plan? :)
Feb 28 23:47:29 <spevack> i'm happy to own something
Feb 28 23:47:33 <joadams> same here
Feb 28 23:47:34 <kanarip> so am i
Feb 28 23:47:41 <JonRob> +1 here
Feb 28 23:47:51 <gregdek_home> joadams: I rely upon you to identify
the chunks we should attack first.
Feb 28 23:48:03 <Donnell> i am new but i am available to do what needs
to be done
Feb 28 23:48:20 <mether> Donnell: would you introduce yourself?
Feb 28 23:48:27 <jmbuser> I can help to some degree, especially wiki stuff
Feb 28 23:48:49 <joadams> greg, you may have missed my earlier post
b/c of your lag: "gut feeling: target audience (customer) is most
important, brand positioning second, marketing messages third,
strategies & tactics #4"
Feb 28 23:48:59 <gregdek_home> Ah, ok.
Feb 28 23:49:07 * gregdek_home looks at wiki.
Feb 28 23:49:12 <joadams> <joadams> the other pieces can fill in
Feb 28 23:49:46 <gregdek_home> 126.96.36.199 -- Target Audience. Who owns it?
Feb 28 23:49:55 <JonRob> who's brave!?
Feb 28 23:50:00 <mether> I will
Feb 28 23:50:11 <gregdek_home> 188.8.131.52 -- Target Audience -- mether!
Feb 28 23:50:14 <gregdek_home> Next:
Feb 28 23:50:35 <gregdek_home> 1.1.2 -- Brand Positioning. Who wants it?
Feb 28 23:50:45 <spevack> gregdek_home: can you define brand
positioning for everyone briefly?
Feb 28 23:50:51 <spevack> or joadams
Feb 28 23:50:56 <gregdek_home> 1. MISSION
Feb 28 23:50:56 <gregdek_home> 2. POINTS OF DIFFERENCE
Feb 28 23:50:56 <gregdek_home> 3. POINTS OF PARITY
Feb 28 23:50:56 <gregdek_home> 4. CORE BRAND ESSENCE
Feb 28 23:50:56 <gregdek_home> 5. BRAND PERSONALITY
Feb 28 23:51:07 <mether> spevack: he did already.
Feb 28 23:51:15 * spevack must not have been paying attention
Feb 28 23:51:34 <joadams> i can definitely take that one ... willing
to work with others, if anyone is interested
Feb 28 23:51:34 <gregdek_home> Maybe I should take that one.
Feb 28 23:51:51 <gregdek_home> joadams: I'll own it and ask for your input?
Feb 28 23:51:56 <joadams> sounds good
Feb 28 23:52:02 <mether> spevack: http://paste.ausil.us/294
Feb 28 23:52:06 <gregdek_home> 1.1.2 -- Brand Positioning -- gregdek!
Feb 28 23:52:10 <gregdek_home> Next:
Feb 28 23:52:18 <Donnell> Brand new to the Project, got involved
within the last week, my background is intelligence so my interest in
Fedora started with my learning SeLinux. Past few years I have been a
marketing consultant and i am going back to school once again for
Feb 28 23:52:32 <spevack> Donnell: good to meet you
Feb 28 23:52:33 <gregdek_home> Donnell: Nice. :)
Feb 28 23:52:47 <Donnell> Thank you, i am happy to be here
Feb 28 23:52:49 <jmbuser> Donnell:Welcome
Feb 28 23:52:54 * stickster_mtg is now known as stickster
Feb 28 23:52:55 <JonRob> Donnell: looking forward to working with you :)
Feb 28 23:53:01 <gregdek_home> 1.1.3 -- Key Marketing Messages.
Feb 28 23:53:03 <gregdek_home> Who wants it?
Feb 28 23:53:26 * spevack is willin to take it
Feb 28 23:53:47 <gregdek_home> 1.1.3 -- Key Marketing Messages -- spevack!
Feb 28 23:53:49 <spevack> or to consult with someone else, if they
want to be the "owner" but want help
Feb 28 23:53:59 <spevack> too late, it's mine!!! mwahahaha
Feb 28 23:54:04 <JonRob> heh
Feb 28 23:54:05 <gregdek_home> :)
Feb 28 23:54:09 <kanarip> uh oh
Feb 28 23:54:20 <tw2113> i'm just an observer right now still
Feb 28 23:54:29 <JonRob> oo, could i suggest as well (maybe obvious
but...) people who are interested subscribe to the page
Feb 28 23:54:33 <JonRob> watch changes
Feb 28 23:54:33 * spevack always wondered when he'd get some power
'round these parts :)
Feb 28 23:54:36 <JonRob> and then we discuss things on the list
Feb 28 23:54:38 <gregdek_home> I expect all of these to have
conversations on the lists. :)
Feb 28 23:55:14 <gregdek_home> 1.1.4 -- Strategies and Tactics. A big
one and a fun one. :) Who wants it?
Feb 28 23:55:27 * spevack nominates jonrob and kanarip
Feb 28 23:55:31 <joadams> this is where we really need to link in with
the RH PR team, who has offered to help on tactical items
Feb 28 23:55:31 <spevack> if they have time/desire
Feb 28 23:55:43 <JonRob> count me in
Feb 28 23:55:47 <kanarip> i'm up for it
Feb 28 23:55:56 <spevack> with me helping
Feb 28 23:55:59 <JonRob> holidays are coming up so i need something to
keep me busy!
Feb 28 23:56:00 <Donnell> I have been reading some materials to get
caught up, if ya'll can recommend some talking points or archived
discussions i can get caught up in about 1 day and take on an
initiative either as owner or just to help...
Feb 28 23:56:11 <gregdek_home> 1.1.4 -- Strategies and Tactics --
JonRob and Kanarip!
Feb 28 23:56:21 <spevack> Donnell: after this meeting, you're going to
want to get yourself on fedora-marketing-list, and just dive in
Feb 28 23:56:34 <Donnell> i will do that
Feb 28 23:56:40 <spevack> Donnell:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives is a decent 1 page overview
Feb 28 23:57:00 <spevack> JonRob, kanarip: i'm happy to help you out
Feb 28 23:57:05 <kanarip> i know ;-)
Feb 28 23:57:28 <JonRob> spevack: thanks -it's appreciated! btw...if
Red Hat PR are willing to help with these bits maybe some one could
put us in touch sometime?
Feb 28 23:57:37 <gregdek_home> OK, so we're already at an hour.
Feb 28 23:57:50 * striker57 (n=striker5 at 184.108.40.206) has joined #fedora-mktg
Feb 28 23:57:52 <spevack> JonRob: that's what i'm here for
Feb 28 23:57:57 <JonRob> awesome :)
Feb 28 23:58:01 <JonRob> my hero!
Feb 28 23:58:15 <gregdek_home> We've got a bunch of stuff we didn't
get to yet. I'm happy to keep going if people are willing.
Feb 28 23:58:19 <spevack> actually, seeing as you're the *volunteer*,
you are in fact my hero :)
Feb 28 23:58:40 <spevack> gregdek_home: let's go 10 more mins and see
what we can do
Feb 28 23:58:51 <spevack> since we have folks here
Feb 28 23:58:58 <JonRob> gregdek_home: yes, i'd really like to get to
the open items on news.fp.o and the releases notes/summary for beta
Feb 28 23:59:13 <gregdek_home> OK.
Feb 28 23:59:20 <gregdek_home> Moving on:
Feb 28 23:59:23 <gregdek_home> Next item:
Feb 28 23:59:38 <gregdek_home> *Messaging Guide.
Feb 29 00:00:09 <gregdek_home> Seems to me that this might fall out of
the work we're doing on the Big Plan...
Feb 29 00:00:14 <joadams> ok, so i'm not really sure what this is ...
and didn't note it as an action item at the last meeting, so don't
know how my name got on there ... but it seems to be something coming
out of the most recent FUDCon
Feb 29 00:00:28 * spevack thinks they are pretty similar
Feb 29 00:00:29 <joadams> greg, i agree ... this should be covered in
the marketing plan
Feb 29 00:00:32 <gregdek_home> Yeah.
Feb 29 00:00:43 <gregdek_home> Then I'm gonna put a bullet in this
item. Any objection?
Feb 29 00:00:54 <joadams> specifically spevack's marketing messages section
Feb 29 00:01:00 <spevack> how lucky!
Feb 29 00:01:06 <gregdek_home> :)
Feb 29 00:01:16 * gregdek_home kills that task.
Feb 29 00:01:19 <gregdek_home> Moving on:
Feb 29 00:01:29 <gregdek_home> * Brand Position.
Feb 29 00:01:35 <gregdek_home> Also seems like it's included in our
Feb 29 00:01:42 <joadams> yup, the part that you own :)
Feb 29 00:01:49 <gregdek_home> :)
Feb 29 00:01:56 <spevack> we're so good at getting rid of action items
Feb 29 00:01:56 * gregdek_home puts a bullet in that item too.
Feb 29 00:01:58 <gregdek_home> YEAH!
Feb 29 00:02:07 <gregdek_home> This is all just more sensible reorganizing.
Feb 29 00:02:12 <spevack> gregdek_home: add an action item of "Fedora
7 release plan"
Feb 29 00:02:16 <spevack> so we can just power through it!
Feb 29 00:02:23 * tw2113 has quit ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus.
Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the
world of IRC.")
Feb 29 00:02:27 <gregdek_home> spevack: I will kill you.
Feb 29 00:02:31 <gregdek_home> Moving on!
Feb 29 00:02:41 <gregdek_home> "Leader of IRC Chats."
Feb 29 00:02:47 <gregdek_home> Does anyone even know what this item is?
Feb 29 00:03:11 <JonRob> i think choke was unsure of how best to lead things
Feb 29 00:03:14 <spevack> i think it's "who does what you are doing
right now each time"
Feb 29 00:03:18 <gregdek_home> Yes.
Feb 29 00:03:19 <joadams> yup
Feb 29 00:03:21 <JonRob> so quaid volunteered to help him get the ropes
Feb 29 00:03:34 <gregdek_home> Well, that would be me, then, since
choke is choking on other work. :)
Feb 29 00:03:39 * gregdek_home kills that item too. BOOYAH!
Feb 29 00:03:50 <gregdek_home> Moving on:
Feb 29 00:03:55 <gregdek_home> * WIki tutorial!
Feb 29 00:04:04 <spevack> I did one for some of the folks in raleigh
Feb 29 00:04:09 <gregdek_home> Did it take?
Feb 29 00:04:12 <spevack> got like 3 people signed up with their fedora accounts
Feb 29 00:04:13 <gregdek_home> Did everyone get accounts?
Feb 29 00:04:14 <spevack> didn't really take
Feb 29 00:04:17 <gregdek_home> Heh.
Feb 29 00:04:26 <gregdek_home> Shall we do it again this week?
Feb 29 00:04:34 <spevack> i should do another, but there has been much
more important stuff to do.
Feb 29 00:04:36 <ianweller> hi, whats up
Feb 29 00:04:37 <spevack> probably *next* week
Feb 29 00:04:46 <gregdek_home> Hi ian. Welcome.
Feb 29 00:04:57 <gregdek_home> spevack: Shall I leave that on you, then?
Feb 29 00:05:00 * ianweller reads some backlog for context
Feb 29 00:05:01 <spevack> sure
Feb 29 00:05:14 <kanarip> pull the plug on all coffee machines until
everyone signs up
Feb 29 00:05:37 <gregdek_home> kanarip: That's illegal, I think. :)
Feb 29 00:05:43 <kanarip> lol, is it?
Feb 29 00:05:47 <spevack> gregdek_home: you are "killing" all these
action items. are you promoting a culture of violence?
Feb 29 00:05:52 <EvilBob> the coffee in Raleigh sucks, no one drinks
it any how...
Feb 29 00:05:52 <gregdek_home> kanarip: Sarbanes/Oxley!
Feb 29 00:05:54 <rharrison> might be a touch counter productive as well
Feb 29 00:06:02 <gregdek_home> Oh, while I've got folks:
Feb 29 00:06:08 <gregdek_home> Is next week too soon for a follow-up meeting?
Feb 29 00:06:18 <ianweller> gregdek_home: where are the action items
we're looking at
Feb 29 00:06:24 <kanarip> gregdek_home, cancel the contract with the
refilling/maintenance company maybe?
Feb 29 00:06:26 <rharrison> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks
Feb 29 00:06:31 <ianweller> thx
Feb 29 00:06:31 <EvilBob> gregdek_home: is May to soon for the next
Feb 29 00:06:43 <gregdek_home> EvilBob: that's not helpful. :)
Feb 29 00:07:05 <gregdek_home> Are people here willing to meet again
next week, is the question I'm asking. :)
Feb 29 00:07:06 <EvilBob> gregdek_home: my answer is "No next week
will be perfect"
Feb 29 00:07:13 <spevack> next week is good
Feb 29 00:07:16 <spevack> keep things moving
Feb 29 00:07:18 <JonRob> +1
Feb 29 00:07:20 <jmbuser> +1
Feb 29 00:07:21 <kanarip> +1
Feb 29 00:07:22 <EvilBob> we do not have a LOT of time
Feb 29 00:07:29 <gregdek_home> OK. Is this time good for everyone?
Feb 29 00:07:29 <spevack> even if only 75% of stuff makes progress,
it's all good
Feb 29 00:07:46 <joadams> yup
Feb 29 00:07:47 <jmbuser> +1 on time
Feb 29 00:07:53 <gregdek_home> Okey doke.
Feb 29 00:07:55 <EvilBob> +1 on time
Feb 29 00:07:55 <mether> not very. it is 3 AM here but I guess I can manage
Feb 29 00:08:04 <ianweller> time as in around now?
Feb 29 00:08:04 * pingou has quit ("Parti :-)")
Feb 29 00:08:09 * pingou (n=Pingou at fedora/pingou) has joined #fedora-mktg
Feb 29 00:08:21 <EvilBob> ianweller: 2000UTC
Feb 29 00:08:48 <gregdek_home> OK...
Feb 29 00:08:50 <gregdek_home> Moving on:
Feb 29 00:09:18 <gregdek_home> Registering IRC nicks? I think we've
got that covered, don't we?
Feb 29 00:09:54 <gregdek_home> I'm gonna say we have that covered.
Feb 29 00:10:06 <gregdek_home> Moving on:
Feb 29 00:10:09 <EvilBob> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
Feb 29 00:10:23 <gregdek_home> * Events planning!
Feb 29 00:10:50 <gregdek_home> This seems like a Whole 'Nother Meeting to me.
Feb 29 00:11:09 <JonRob> totally agree
Feb 29 00:11:20 <kanarip> maybe it's supposed to say; marketing events planning?
Feb 29 00:11:28 <kanarip> erhm
Feb 29 00:11:28 <gregdek_home> Unclear.
Feb 29 00:11:41 <kanarip> "marketing of events" planning
Feb 29 00:11:43 <rharrison> or strategy / framework for planning events
Feb 29 00:11:48 <gregdek_home> You know what?
Feb 29 00:11:54 <kanarip> rharrison, yes ;-)
Feb 29 00:12:00 <rharrison> could just be FUDCon 10
Feb 29 00:12:23 <gregdek_home> This is one of those areas of Ambassador overlap.
Feb 29 00:12:28 <spevack> gregdek_home: if I may:
Feb 29 00:12:33 <gregdek_home> Which is historically a tough question...
Feb 29 00:12:37 <gregdek_home> spevack: go ahead...
Feb 29 00:13:15 <spevack> to the same extent that you are moving
Fedora Marketing along down this task list, I have been doing the same
kind of thing in Ambassadors/FAMSCO land. So I think that you will
see progress on this sort of stuff coming from that "section" of
Feb 29 00:13:35 <jmbuser> +1
Feb 29 00:14:08 <gregdek_home> OK.
Feb 29 00:14:20 <gregdek_home> So then I can close this "assigned to Famsco"?
Feb 29 00:14:25 <spevack> yeah.
Feb 29 00:14:34 <gregdek_home> OK.
Feb 29 00:14:36 <gregdek_home> Done. :)
Feb 29 00:14:59 <jmbuser> I'll take it
Feb 29 00:15:17 <gregdek_home> jmbuser: I just killed it.
Feb 29 00:15:25 <gregdek_home> Since famsco is already working on this stuff.
Feb 29 00:15:32 <gregdek_home> And it's basically their entire reason
for being. :)
Feb 29 00:15:36 <gregdek_home> Moving on:
Feb 29 00:15:40 <jmbuser> I'm member of famsco, so same diffeence :-)
Feb 29 00:15:50 <gregdek_home> * Beta release overview! :)
Feb 29 00:15:52 <spevack> we have a famsco meeting tomorrow.
Feb 29 00:16:00 <gregdek_home> (I'm skipping ahead for jonrob's benefit.)
Feb 29 00:16:07 <spevack> we're going to talk about a lot of these
events/budget type things
Feb 29 00:16:11 <spevack> and general organizational planning
Feb 29 00:16:35 <gregdek_home> Comments on Beta Release Overview?
Feb 29 00:16:44 <JonRob> gregdek_home: thanks - this is appreciated!
Feb 29 00:17:11 <JonRob> what style of text are we heading in with the
Feb 29 00:17:17 <JonRob> we're trying to do everything on a single
page this time
Feb 29 00:17:28 <mether> JonRob: for the beta itself?
Feb 29 00:17:29 <JonRob> so that's release notes/overview/summary etc
in one place
Feb 29 00:17:36 <gregdek_home> Do you have a URL for reference?
Feb 29 00:17:38 <JonRob> urmm...i believe that was the plan?
Feb 29 00:17:43 <mether> or is this a draft for the final overview?
Feb 29 00:18:19 <mether> i wasnt sure. Alpha/beta or the first two
test releases traditionally has been just one page summaries
Feb 29 00:18:23 <JonRob> gregdek_home: it's in the archives of f-m-l
somehwere - i'll try dig it out
Feb 29 00:18:34 <mether> the release summary has been only for the final release
Feb 29 00:18:40 <JonRob> mether: my thinking was that a)
Feb 29 00:19:12 <spevack> JonRob: I thought that the release overview
was a great idea... just something kind of short... compared to the
longer Release Summary that comes with GOLD
Feb 29 00:19:33 <spevack> if i understand correctly, that's the
general plan, right?
Feb 29 00:19:35 <JonRob> woah, well this is where i'm having problems
and getting confused
Feb 29 00:19:40 <JonRob> and need input
Feb 29 00:20:05 <JonRob> is it ok if i find the message i sent
following conversation with quaid?
Feb 29 00:20:22 <JonRob> might help us make some mroe sense of this
Feb 29 00:20:28 <gregdek_home> Sure.
Feb 29 00:20:28 <JonRob> (appreicates if people want to move on!)
Feb 29 00:20:31 <spevack> sure. whatever we can do to help sort
through the confusion, just let us know ;)
Feb 29 00:20:34 <gregdek_home> Um...
Feb 29 00:20:46 <gregdek_home> How about you find the note and forward
to the list with your question?
Feb 29 00:20:51 <gregdek_home> And we can answer offline?
Feb 29 00:21:46 <JonRob> yeah that sounds fine to me
Feb 29 00:21:50 <gregdek_home> Okey doke.
Feb 29 00:21:56 <gregdek_home> Back to the agenda:
Feb 29 00:22:20 <gregdek_home> * Color palate. rharrison, isn't this
kind of an Art Team thing?
Feb 29 00:22:31 <rharrison> I think that it is
Feb 29 00:22:51 <mether> yeah, skip that. the belongs to the art team
Feb 29 00:22:58 <gregdek_home> Are they handling it?
Feb 29 00:23:00 <gregdek_home> Actively?
Feb 29 00:23:08 <gregdek_home> I don't want to just drop it if we need
to hand it off...
Feb 29 00:23:15 <rharrison> I posted that question when I proposed it
in the list. You suggested that we put it on so it didnt' get lost
Feb 29 00:23:28 <rharrison> and we made sure we handed it off. ;-)
Feb 29 00:23:32 <gregdek_home> :)
Feb 29 00:23:33 <gregdek_home> ok.
Feb 29 00:23:37 * gregdek_home scratches it.
Feb 29 00:23:53 <gregdek_home> * news.fp.o.
Feb 29 00:24:05 <gregdek_home> How's it going?
Feb 29 00:24:11 <gregdek_home> JonRob, you working that issue?
Feb 29 00:24:30 <mether> he has requested a wordpress instance
Feb 29 00:24:36 <mether> infrastructure team needs to handle that
Feb 29 00:24:40 * rharrison makes a note to put the basic color pallet
details on a page and ping the art group.
Feb 29 00:24:53 <JonRob> infra are handling it
Feb 29 00:25:15 <JonRob> i believe fchiulli is working on getting us
either lyceem or mu installed but having some issues
Feb 29 00:25:35 <EvilBob> It is still amazing how far we have come
Feb 29 00:25:42 * Karlik|nb has quit ("Leaving")
Feb 29 00:26:04 <JonRob> but i'm in touch and will keep chasing it,
gently of course :)
Feb 29 00:26:06 <gregdek_home> EvilBob: ain't it the truth? :)
Feb 29 00:26:22 <gregdek_home> JonRob: Any input you need from us? Do
we need to track it here for any reason, or are you on it?
Feb 29 00:26:32 <EvilBob> Two years ago you would have been castrated
publicly for suggesting mediawiki or wordpress
Feb 29 00:26:40 <gregdek_home> And how does this fit with what Thomas
Chung has been doing, btw?
Feb 29 00:26:58 <JonRob> gregdek_home: i know Thomas has been invovled
with this at points
Feb 29 00:27:11 <JonRob> and i believe the plan is to put the fwn
releases on the news.fp.o
Feb 29 00:27:19 <JonRob> but also to use that site for other things
Feb 29 00:27:26 <JonRob> i.e more press release style stuff
Feb 29 00:27:38 <JonRob> the sort of things press.rh.com have been
kind enough to help us with now
Feb 29 00:27:44 <gregdek_home> So "news.fp.o" is mostly designed to be
Feb 29 00:27:47 <JonRob> and we'll also use it for interviews etc
Feb 29 00:27:53 <JonRob> press and user
Feb 29 00:28:02 <JonRob> the "press releases" we have in mind are informal
Feb 29 00:28:06 <JonRob> at least this is how it looks in my head!
Feb 29 00:28:31 <JonRob> the sort of "oh my, the ambassadors are
awesome and check out their amazing growth!" sort of thing
Feb 29 00:28:32 <mether> gregdek_home: my original goal was to post
news whenever necessary to compliment the weekly summaries
Feb 29 00:28:43 <gregdek_home> Honestly, I'm a little confused about
the difference between this and FWN, but I'll leave that to you guys.
Feb 29 00:28:48 <JonRob> oh mether: sorry if i've blown this up in my head :S
Feb 29 00:29:12 <gregdek_home> Anyway, my real question is, do we have
a need to track it in these meetings? Seems like the answer is no.
Feb 29 00:29:16 <mether> gregdek_home: well I have already informed
tchung and he is involved with the idea too. so no worries
Feb 29 00:29:36 <mether> i dont think so
Feb 29 00:29:40 <gregdek_home> JonRob?
Feb 29 00:29:46 <gregdek_home> Do we need to track here?
Feb 29 00:30:06 <gregdek_home> (Since your name is actually on the work item...)
Feb 29 00:30:08 <JonRob> no i guess not
Feb 29 00:30:12 <gregdek_home> Guess not?
Feb 29 00:30:16 <JonRob> lol no
Feb 29 00:30:19 <gregdek_home> Would you prefer to discuss it here? :)
Feb 29 00:30:27 <gregdek_home> Either way. Don't let me talk you out
of anything. :)
Feb 29 00:30:38 <JonRob> well, i'll drop it back when we have more to
Feb 29 00:30:47 <gregdek_home> OK.
Feb 29 00:30:53 <JonRob> thinking i need to chat with mether and
tchung about uses for this site!
Feb 29 00:31:00 * gregdek_home cuts it for now.
Feb 29 00:31:19 <gregdek_home> Well, we've tidied up the agenda quite a bit.
Feb 29 00:31:39 <gregdek_home> Next week we'll focus on the Big Plan
document, and gather together what we learn this week. Yes?
Feb 29 00:32:35 <joadams> sounds like a plan
Feb 29 00:32:38 <gregdek_home> Seems like we're ready to call the
meeting to a close, then.
Feb 29 00:32:40 <gregdek_home> Any objections?
Feb 29 00:32:46 <JonRob> nope
Feb 29 00:33:00 <Donnell> no
Feb 29 00:33:02 <gregdek_home> Meeting ends in 5...
Feb 29 00:33:07 <gregdek_home> 4...
Feb 29 00:33:07 * mthompson has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Feb 29 00:33:11 <gregdek_home> 3...
Feb 29 00:33:15 <gregdek_home> 2...
Feb 29 00:33:18 <gregdek_home> 1...
Feb 29 00:33:21 <gregdek_home> 1/2...
Feb 29 00:33:25 <gregdek_home> MARK: meeting close.
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