Fedora Marketing Meeting 2008-01-30 IRC log

Karsten 'quaid' Wade kwade at redhat.com
Thu Jan 31 16:57:48 UTC 2008

HTML log found here:


11:03 < themayor> is this taking place or what?
11:03 < c_hoke> alright, so it's about time to get going here
11:03 -!- rut1 [n=rsuehle at nat/redhat/x-d7d56d95030bdb55] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:03 < c_hoke> so, just to give everyone a bit of some background
11:03 -!- rut1 is now known as rsuehle
11:03 < c_hoke> in case you weren't on email lsit
11:03 < mdomsch> smooge, feel free to ask on mirror-list for more EPEL mirors
11:03 < c_hoke> we had a meeting in raleigh a few weeks ago about how to organize our efforts on marketing fedora
11:04 < c_hoke> we didn't get very far before deciding to just kick the whole thing out to the community
11:04 < c_hoke> and here we are
11:04 < smooge> mdomsch, thanks will do so
11:04 -!- rharrison [n=rharriso at nat/cisco/x-fbd86a11f39f4355] has left #fedora-meeting ["Leaving"]
11:04 < smooge> and will let c_hoke have his channel
11:04 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Marketing SIG -- Introduction, agenda
11:04 -!- jopp [n=jopp at nat/redhat/x-92ef216e8cc1cada] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:04 < c_hoke> we have a few ideas and some people whoa re willing to help from our (Red Hat) team
11:05 < c_hoke> but we wanna see what everyone thinks, get an agenda set and kick some ass.
11:05 < quaid> can we get a quick roll call on who is here for this meeting?  e.g.:
11:05  * quaid is here
11:05 < c_hoke> yeah who all is here?
11:05  * mthompson is here
11:05 < rsuehle> Ruth
11:05  * Syn-Drome is here
11:05  * spevack 
11:05  * iWolf 
11:05  * red_alert 
11:06 < striker57> striker57 (Chris Negus) is here
11:06  * joadams (john adams, red hat brand manager) is here
11:06  * tfridric is here
11:06 < rmaggior> Ron
11:06 -!- bascha [n=bharris at nat/redhat/x-82d0cdc87293e816] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:06 < c_hoke> elaine?
11:06 < quaid> <== Karsten Wade for those who don't know my nick :)
11:06 < rsuehle> elaine is afk
11:06 < Syn-Drome> ive read your emails :)
11:07 < c_hoke> hey bascha, we're just doing roll-call
11:07 < jopp> jopp
11:07 < rsuehle> bascha now afk too :D
11:08  * quaid puts up current agenda in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings#Next_Meeting
11:08 < c_hoke> so I guess the first order of business for us is to definitely say we're a SIG
11:09 < c_hoke> and we'll get ourselves listed
11:09 < quaid> looks like enough people to be a SIG to me
11:09 < quaid> a special interest group is the Fedora way of "just doing stuff without too much bureacracy"
11:09 < quaid> if we get big and active enough, we need to add bureaucracy for survivability
11:10 < c_hoke> and so everyone knows, and so I can put him on the spot, joadams is our branding expert and we're happy to have him in here
11:10  * bascha is back.  :)  
11:10 < c_hoke> he can give us some insight to this whole thing
11:10 < quaid> so .. SIG +1 or -1?
11:10 < c_hoke> +1
11:10 < bascha> +1
11:10 < red_alert> +1
11:10 < joadams> +1
11:10 < striker57> +1
11:10 < spevack> +1
11:10 < Syn-Drome> +1
11:10 < iWolf> +1
11:11 < c_hoke> quaid: I may have you lead us through your agenda that yyou'
11:11 < c_hoke> ve alid out so far and I'll keep track of everyone
11:11 -!- al7qs [n=Doug at] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:11 < quaid> c_hoke: sure, good call
11:11  * quaid is +1 to a SIG as well
11:11 < quaid> if anyone wants to add us to the wiki/SIGs whilst we talk, go ahead ...
11:12 < quaid> so, agenda .. I moved brand to the bottom because that is more of an open ended discussion
11:12 < bascha> (also just a note--seems that /msg isn't working?  or is that just us?)
11:12 < quaid> bascha: should work ...
11:12 < bascha> quaid:  isn't working for me, rsuehle, or joadams
11:12 < iWolf> I think you need a registered nick?
11:12 < bascha> also jopp
11:12 < rsuehle> oooh iwolf is right
11:12 < bascha> tks, nvm
11:12 < bascha> :P
11:13 < quaid> yes, nick registration is suggested ...
11:13 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate#head-e606f00c0fdeb3462b9278f364f5645317ea30b7
11:13 < quaid> useful links are there
11:13 < quaid> we should be able to have an in-channel discussion, though 
11:14 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Marketing SIG -- What is the state of Fedora marketing needs?
11:14 < quaid> fwiw, I think we have that somewhat answered with Messaging GUide and Marketing Plan, but what do those mean and why do we need them?
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11:16  * quaid was hoping we might get a blank/template of a marketing plan for the list to look at ...
11:16 < joadams> i've looked up a couple of different examples and sent them over to c_hoke
11:16 < joadams> good mix of shorter and longer styles
11:16 < c_hoke> I have those and they're in PDF format
11:16 < c_hoke> what's the best way for folks to see them?
11:16 < joadams> we can customize as needed, of course ... just to give an idea
11:17 < mthompson> wiki?
11:17 < c_hoke> joadams: do you have a web page we can link to?
11:17 < joadams> no, i saved them all locally as separate docs ...
11:17 < mthompson> do we have a fedora marketing team wiki? (just curious)
11:18 < joadams> i can try to post to the wiki (if there is an appropriate page, and if someone helps me :)
11:18 < c_hoke> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings#Next_Meeting
11:18 < c_hoke> I'm assuming we'll use that page for all purposes
11:19 -!- rharrison [n=rharriso at nat/cisco/x-fbd86a11f39f4355] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:19 < quaid> mthompson: fp.org/wiki/Marketing
11:19 < bascha> i can help you with the posting, joadams
11:19 < Syn-Drome> i just want to add something here
11:19 < quaid> alt is to use a fedorapeople.org account if you have problems with the attachments
11:19 < quaid> Syn-Drome: go ahead
11:19 < Syn-Drome> i have a redundant website that i'd be happy to offer up for testing space
11:20 < Syn-Drome> :)
11:20 < quaid> maybe we can take the outline from the PDFs and put that into the wiki
11:21 < joadams> yeah, most follow the same basic format ... level of detail is different
11:21 < c_hoke> I put up a simple one page marketing plan and sent it to the list
11:21  * quaid looks
11:21 < c_hoke> hopefully someone can grab it quickly and throw it up there for now
11:21 < c_hoke> it's VERY basic
11:22 < joadams> the one-pager is by far the most basic
11:22 < c_hoke> but it's the basics
11:22 < c_hoke> who is our audience, what are our strengths
11:22 < c_hoke> where do we want to be seen
11:22 < c_hoke> how do we want to be seen, etc etc
11:22 < c_hoke> what are our weaknesses
11:22 < joadams> the others put more meat on the bones
11:23 < joadams> e.g. articulated mission statement, SWOT analysis, detailed competitive analysis, marketing strategies and budgets ...
11:23  * c_hoke sends out the rest of the pdfs
11:24 < joadams> implementation schedule(s) ...
11:24 < c_hoke> does anyone know right off the top of their head when F9 goes out?
11:24 < quaid> ok, the meatier ones sound better to me
11:24 < Syn-Drome> aril
11:24 < quaid> May Day
11:24 < Syn-Drome> *april
11:24 < spevack> something like april 29th
11:24 < bascha> and spevack for the win...
11:24 < c_hoke> cause ideally we wanna be able to back that as much as possible IMHO
11:24 < quaid> that was where Leigh's March deadline idea came froom
11:25 < spevack> Fedora is released on the Tuesday closest to May Day and the Tuesday closest to Halloween each year
11:25 < Syn-Drome> :D
11:25 < c_hoke> word up spevack
11:25 < red_alert> when is may day? oO
11:26 < rsuehle> may 1
11:26 < red_alert> i c :D
11:26 < c_hoke> Messaging Guide, for those who wanna see what's goin on so far http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/MarketingMessagingGuide
11:26 < quaid> what is the relationship of a Guide to a Plan?
11:26 < c_hoke> that's ideas from FUDCon
11:26 < c_hoke> joadams?
11:27 < quaid> is one a subset of the other?  are they parallel dependencies?
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11:27 < c_hoke> I'd think the plan is a subset of a guide
11:27 < c_hoke> the plan gets more meat and specificity
11:28 < joadams> i'd need to take a look at the messaging guide to answer better.  but generally, a plan will be forward-looking, and will bridge the strategic with the tactical.
11:28 < quaid> do those two things include everything that is needed to move ahead with Fedora marketing?
11:29 < joadams> there seems to be an absence of market data
11:29 < c_hoke> yeah that's the bones that we have so far
11:29 < c_hoke> it's not complete by any means
11:29 < quaid> tactical examples == generating press around a release, attracting more contributors, etc. ?
11:29 < c_hoke> we need to lay it out
11:30 < quaid> strategic == why we do what we do, how we do it over the long haul, etc.?
11:30 < c_hoke> and understand how a guide relates to what we do
11:30 < joadams> quaid: exactly.  what are the specific marketing vehicles and when do we want to engage them.
11:30 < joadams> strategic would be, what are our major messages?  how do we want to be seen?  what will our marketing mix look like to communicate those messages?
11:31 < c_hoke> do we want to spend the rest of this meeting discussing who and what Fedora is
11:31 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:31 < c_hoke> and get that set?
11:31 < c_hoke> and decide what our message should be
11:31 < striker57> Yes, and who we want to market to.
11:32 < c_hoke> yes
11:32 < joadams> first: if we were to put a skeleton marketing plan out there, is there a "best practice" way for the community to collaboratively edit / author the document?
11:32 < Syn-Drome> first time linux users.
11:32 -!- spoleeba [n=one at fedora/Jef] has quit ["Leaving"]
11:32 < joadams> (maybe not the entire community, but the SIG?)
11:33 < quaid> as for discussions ...
11:33 < c_hoke> quaid: ideas on what joadams said/
11:33 < c_hoke> ?
11:33 < quaid> we can, but generally that is what a discussion list (f-marketing-l) is for
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11:33 < quaid> if we want to get stuff done, we'll need to engage on list all the time and use these meetings for updates and decision stuff
11:34 < joadams> got it.  one way to tackle it might be to split the plan up into manageable chunks and have a SIG member "champion" its completion.
11:34 < quaid> for example, we can actually volunteer as individuals for the various parts of the Guide and Plan
11:34 < joadams> great minds think alike
11:34 < quaid> then go about the "what goes in there" discussion on list
11:34 < quaid> +1
11:34 < Syn-Drome> +1
11:34 < c_hoke> +1
11:34 < striker57> +1
11:34 < iWolf> +1
11:35 < red_alert> +1
11:35 < c_hoke> Do we want to go ahead and decide what fedora is and what it stands for on-list?
11:35 < c_hoke> and get that out of the way
11:35 < joadams> i'll put the skeleton plan together ... should we volunteer for sections on our next meeting?
11:35 < joadams> or is that waiting to long?
11:35 < c_hoke> we can volunteer for sections on-list
11:36 < red_alert> If the sections are listed in the wiki, just make The people write their names down there
11:37 < quaid> just a note about "what is Fedora" -- once we decide in f-marketing-l, we have to sell it to the rest of Fedora, who all have their own ideas of what Fedora is; that process may take us longer than the F9 release to complete, so it shouldn't be a dependency on tactical work
11:37 < quaid> red_alert +1
11:37 < c_hoke> quaid +1 I was thinking the same thing
11:38 < quaid> joadams: best practice is, put up an outline on the wiki (quick process), tell people about it via the list; Subscribe to watch the page(s) when people edit the wiki
11:38 < c_hoke> I want us to be able to act now and theorize the whole time, but I recognize that theorizing can be looooong
11:38 < quaid> c_hoke: 'zactly
11:38 < joadams> got it.  i'll engage you guys to get it online if (when) i need help.
11:39 < quaid> if there is anyone in the RDU office with joadams who can do a quick demo of how to use Moin, that would be great
11:39 < spevack> I think we need to build enough of a consensus on this "what is Fedora" stuff to get work done, and to ensure that we don't revisit it every couple of months repeatedly
11:39 < c_hoke> would a consessus of this SIG be enough for us to get work done?
11:39 < quaid> iterate the process to get consensus, conduct surveys amongst Fedorans as research and results tests, etc.
11:40 < c_hoke> and then push out, change messaging for F10 if needed?
11:41 < joadams> ok, so now we're talking about brand positioning ("what is fedora").  i've got some tools and templates that could help guide that discussion.
11:41 < quaid> well, one open source way to do things is to do it as best as we can, release early and often, and deal with the community criticism on the fly
11:41  * quaid notes in the discussion so far the list of what marketing needs is:  i) a plan; ii) a guide; ii) a brand position
11:42 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
11:42 < c_hoke> +1 to agree, release, revise
11:43 < red_alert> iv) a leader for the irc meetings
11:43 < c_hoke> red_alert: I've agreed to lead these as best I can, but quaid is helping me out for a while
11:44 < c_hoke> I'm more than happy to lead them, though this is new to me
11:44 < GeroldKa> and sorry also a v) a "value" brand
11:44 < quaid> yeah, and we're almost on the last agenda item, too :)
11:44 < quaid> GeroldKa: can you explain what you mean?
11:45 < GeroldKa> a brand is also as strong as his value
11:45 < GeroldKa> let me try to explain ...
11:45 < c_hoke> spevack: available to help john and me with the wiki?
11:45 < spevack> c_hoke: definitely
11:46 < GeroldKa> if you tell someone SAP, everybody knows this is Software
11:46 < c_hoke> well I think that comes with time
11:46 < GeroldKa> if you tell someone Windows; everybody knows Bill Gates
11:46 < c_hoke> I don't think you can tell people what you are, people will decide what you are
11:46 < GeroldKa> if you tell somebody Linux ....
11:46 < GeroldKa> mostly (if not working in IT) think What is it
11:47 < GeroldKa> it is imho up to us, to value that brand
11:47 < c_hoke> but if your identity and messaging is consistent, then what you want to be known as will happen
11:47 < GeroldKa> the brand must be for us: FEDORA
11:47 < quaid> GeroldKa: I'd almost make that part of a long-term mission statement:  "When people hear Linux, they think Fedora."
11:48 < GeroldKa> yeah; this is the goal
11:49 < c_hoke> absolutely, but you get to that by everything else, I think
11:49 < GeroldKa> Fedora, not any other distribution; also not RH *g*
11:49 < joadams> that's exactly the types of goals to articulate in the marketing plan
11:49 < quaid> GeroldKa: "When people hear Enterprise (aka business), they think Red Hat." ;-)
11:49 < Syn-Drome> generally anyone in the industry who thinks about a server or any kind of serious business platform the think RH
11:50  * quaid notes down to last 10 minutes for meeting
11:50 < quaid> c_hoke: look to you like we have more to discuss on guide or plan?  ready to move to last quick topic?
11:50 < c_hoke> let's move to the last topic, we'll discuss more on f-m-l and assign tasks and leader in the last 5 min
11:51 -!- bo09 [n=bo09 at nat/redhat/x-04604cfcd1c3f677] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:51 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Marketing SIG -- task tracking
11:51 < quaid> anyone want to explain what Trac is?
11:52  * c_hoke knows not
11:52 < spevack> better to just point people to an example?
11:52 < quaid> mmcgrath: can you tell us how you use Trac for f-infra
11:52 < spevack> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trac
11:53 < quaid> Trac is for tracking issues and tasks in a project; it has lots of built-in stuff such as auto-notification
11:53 < quaid> would it help esp. folks newer to Fedora contributing ...
11:53 < nim-nim> quaid: track is an all-in-one-solution, loved by admin people that do not want to deploy a set of apps, and hated by pretty much everyone else
11:53 < quaid> to have a more formal tracking mechanism?
11:53 < mmcgrath> quaid: sure
11:53 < quaid> the other way people do it is informal with the Wiki
11:53 < quaid> make pages there, list who does what, etc.
11:54 < mmcgrath> quaid: you just interested in how we use the bug reporting?
11:54 < c_hoke> I wouldn't mind just using the wiki
11:54 < quaid> mmcgrath: is that what you call the task request for Infra?
11:54 < c_hoke> but, I've never used trac
11:54 < c_hoke> so I dunno
11:54  * spevack thinks that getting people who don't have FP wiki access set up and using some space on there is sufficient, but that's just my $.02
11:54 < quaid> c_hoke: it's a good point, too much tool at this point could kill the goose
11:54 < mmcgrath> quaid: yeah, trac's more for bug tracking but has a pretty easy interface so we use it for everything in infrastructure as well.
11:55 < spevack> quaid: if we were doing a bunch of code, i'd suggest trac.  for brainstorming and writing, wiki seems fine
11:55 < quaid> wiki method downside is increased project management
11:55 < c_hoke> +1 wiki
11:55 < bascha> +1 on the simplest is best take
11:55  * spevack acknowledges that there are tradeoffs, but thinks wiki is better choice here
11:55  * quaid noted that in this meeting the wiki method seemed to be sufficient
11:55 < mmcgrath> quaid: for example, we have the following types of tickets: bug, task, annoyance, enhancement, change, outage.
11:55 < poelcat> +1 wiki
11:56 < mmcgrath> then we just assign stuff as needed.  You can assign it to email addresses as well which is handy, for example sysadmin-web-members at fp.o
11:56 < GeroldKa> +1 wiki
11:56 < mthompson> +1 wiki (but i'll need a tutorial)
11:56 < iWolf> +1 wiki
11:56 < striker57> +1 wiki
11:56 < poelcat> start w/ wiki go to trac when/if wiki doesn't work
11:56 < joadams> +1 i'm with mthompson
11:56 < Syn-Drome> +1 wiki
11:56 < quaid> mmcgrath: I have a feeling we might want it one day, which is why I brought it up; make sure we rolled smoothest from the start
11:56 < spevack> Max will do a wiki setup tutorial for everyone in RDU
11:56 < mmcgrath> quaid: sure thing
11:56  * c_hoke hi-fives Max
11:56 < spevack> we'll schedule it for later this week or early next
11:56 < quaid> spevack: I told folks to contact me about getting in redhat_cla so they don't have to do the GPG dance
11:57 < quaid> spevack: was going to give mmcgrath  a list
11:57 < spevack> quaid: excellent.
11:57 < quaid> ok, wiki is the consensus
11:57 < spevack> quaid: i'll let you run with that, then i'll do a wiki usage demo
11:57 < quaid> spevack: ok, then that means ...
11:57 < quaid> ... everyone here who does NOT have a Fedora account
11:57 < quaid> needs to sign up ASAP :)
11:57  * c_hoke notes we're down to about 5 min
11:58 < quaid> and send me your username so I can get you in redhat_cla if you do not want to do the GPG-signing of the CLA yourself
11:58 < Syn-Drome> my account is a bit broken :s
11:58 < quaid> Syn-Drome: :(
11:58 < quaid> c_hoke: we killed the agenda, sir
11:58 < Syn-Drome> but it IS GPG issues
11:58 < rharrison> I sort of see the wiki as the right place for big tasks, like "Make a Pamphlet" track is more for the nitty gritty stuff involved in making it.
11:58 < quaid> "It's dead, Jim."
11:58 < Syn-Drome> so i'll give you an email
11:58 < c_hoke> I know, but I'd like to assign some owners of things before we go
11:58  * rharrison types too slow
11:58 < quaid> c_hoke: want to list out what needs taking?
11:58 < GeroldKa> quaid, is the redhat_cla the same as http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification
11:59 < quaid> then see who wants to do what
11:59 < quaid> GeroldKa: redhat_cla is the CLA group used to mass-include Red Hat staffers; there are similar ones for dell_cla, etc.
11:59 < ricky> cla_redhat :)
12:00 < quaid> GeroldKa: for when an organization has a single legal relationship with Fedora; e.g. Dell itself agrees to the CLA so each employee there doesn't need to do so as long as they are under employment contract with Dell
12:00 < quaid> aiui, ymmv, ianal, tinla :)
12:00  * joadams will post a skeleton marketing plan to the wiki and engage the marketing-list to volunteer to complete sections
12:00 < quaid> ricky: d'oh! thanks
12:00 < c_hoke> so let's recap
12:00 < quaid> c_hoke: there is your first owner
12:00 < c_hoke> if that's cool ,quaid?
12:00  * joadams will also post some brand positioning tools and templates to the wiki to get the discussion started
12:00 < Syn-Drome> did you get that quaid?
12:00 < GeroldKa> but is the requested cla this one which I posted?
12:01 < c_hoke> so, I'll lead the IRC chats as much as possible, until I get more comfortabel with it, if everyone is cool with that
12:01 < c_hoke> I'll work with joadams on the Plan and Guide outlines
12:01 < Syn-Drome> doin a good job so far c_hoke :D
12:01 < quaid> Syn-Drome: aye
12:01 < c_hoke> that will include the value, GeroldKa
12:02 < c_hoke> Max is going to give us here a rundown of the wiki
12:02 < c_hoke> and we'll post things there ASAP
12:02 < quaid> GeroldKa: I think that group is 'cla_fedora'
12:02 < joadams> i have to sign off ... c_hoke, let me know what else comes up
12:02 < c_hoke> Everyone involved! make sure you register your nick and get on the Fedora wiki
12:02 < c_hoke> joadams: no prob
12:02 -!- joadams [n=joadams at nat/redhat/x-b77cd0b1ca50e254] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:03 < quaid> I'll do the irclog and minutes reply back to the list
12:03 < c_hoke> sounds good
12:03  * quaid needs to call shibby!
12:03 < quaid> </meeting>?
12:03 < c_hoke> alright, I think that's just about it

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