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Re: Developers vs Grandmas



I beg to differ regarding this comment:

"For example, changing gconf default behavior is in fact changing the
upstream software. Now Nautilus on Fedora would behave differently."

The Fedora LiveCD, for example, changes default gconf behaviour of turning screen saver lock off, autologin, logos etc.

Another single line there changing nautilus wouldn´t imply altering upstream, just as the above changes don´t. Maybe a little effort in some areas like this one should be considered. That is my suggestion.

We must also take into consideration that many bug reports remain open forever, without any feedback. I have some like that filed by myself. And it gets worse if the enhancement suggested might go against the upstream´s point of view.

Anyway, I think the issue is important and I hope the list receives my comments with an open spirit. All I say is in the best interests of end-users. It´s important such issues are discussed.

Thanks a lot for the points that have been made so far.


Karsten 'quaid' Wade escreveu:
On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 10:13 -0300, Rafael Gomes wrote:
I agree 100% too, but we can do one of the two options:

First, ask to upstream change this options to improve the life of
end-users or change this options in Fedora.

The confusion I have reading the several replies you are all agreeing to
is this:

* People agree we need to work with upstream and not change their
software, but
* People agree we need to change the upstream software

For example, changing gconf default behavior is in fact changing the
upstream software.  Now Nautilus on Fedora would behave differently.
Any bug reports need to include a list of all the changes we made to the
defaults, giving Fedora more to maintain.  All based on some instincts
and reports that really should be made as bug reports and observations
directly to the upstream!

There is very little benefit to Fedora, our users, and the overall
community for us to focus on changes we can make to upstream to improve
our own user's experience.  If they change is valid and worthwhile, it
needs to happen in the upstream.

- Karsten

2008/10/24 "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" <johannbg hi is>:
Luis Felipe Marzagao wrote:
Exactly! It's clear it's not in the project objective to alter upstream
software. And in fact I agree it shouldn't be!

The trouble is the end-user doesn't even know what upstream means. In
fact, I think the end-user won't even want to know what it means, as long as
the system is running fine. For him, Fedora is an operating system. And the
GNOME example is very good for this matter. There are somethings that don't
imply altering the core of upstream projects in order to make the "out of
the box" user experience more happy :)

A single line, for example, could improve the user experience when
entering GNOME on Fedora:

gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser true

Bingo! A single line (maybe with some other adjustments) in any rc.local
file or any other place specifically designded by Fedora Project should make
the end-user experience a lot better. And it does not require any upstream
intervention or any opinion change by GNOME upstream team. And is very
simple to maintain. And that's it, the end-user would enter Fedora for the
first time and would not complain about a zilion windows opening every time
he clicks on a folder.

It's just an example, but my point is there are small things that makes
the user experience better and does not require huge changes on coding. I
think this is the kind of problem Fedora Project should pay attention to, as
you adequately put.

I agree 100% here.

There are bunch of little things we could do to make Fedora more user
friendly to the end-user.
( Actually basing on my own experience with end-users Gnome has begun going
backwards on usability
it has become so simple that is hard to use. End users expect certain
options, buttons to be there along
with hints if uncertain of how to do things )

Gather faq statistics from the Fedora forum and #fedora channel and address
those issues.
( if possible ).

It also has to be realized that developers are end-users too and if Fedora
does not make
good enough first impression to them, how can the project expect them to get
involved?

Best regards
                 Johann B.





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Rafael Gomes
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