[Fwd: [Bug 154763] Grub is inadequate without Lilo for backup]

[Jeff Spaleta]

On 4/19/05, Mike Bird <mgb-fedora at yosemite.net> wrote:
> Apparently Redhat does not consider lack of reliability a bug.

I think perhaps you have mis-interpreted what Fedora Core is and what
its long term goals versus short term goals are. Reliability is just
one metric by which decisions are made, and that metric must be
weighed against other factors and goals.. such as rate of change. And
I would argue that you can not achieve both a fast rate of change and
high reliability with finite resources.  I think everyone who
continues to try to be interested in your point of view, realizes that
you value reliability highly. Everyone is aware that you run some sort
of small services or hardware shop and have a compelling business
interest to keep certain things in Core that you feel you need to
support for your customers.  That doesn't change the fact that Fedora
as a project has been laided out to prioritize rate of change highly. 
"slow rate of change" is explicitly spelled out as a non-objective of
Core, so is "enabling customer support". Reliability, is not mentioned
specifically anywhere on the objectives page.   Fedora as a project
has a direction and a focus, and its not about high reliability its
about introducing changes and making forward progress.  I personally
think if you sit down and make a list of prioritizes you'll find your
personal interests aren't matching up well with the stated objectives
and non-objectives of the Fedora project. If thats the case, i think
you are going to be perpetually frustrated and you might want to look
at another technical solution that better fits with your headspace.

> Before the flame wars start again, please recall that we don't want
> Grub axed, we just want Lilo included.  Redhat has made extravagent
> claims of mammoth kludgy code needed to support Lilo.  We've
> examined Grubby, found nothing of the kind, and placed our analysis
> on this list.  Redhat has been unwilling or unable to justify their
> claims.

You catch more flies with honey. You have done an exceedingly poor job
 in the last 2 weeks, creating an atmosphere where anyone will feel
comfortable having civil discourse with you.  I think what discussion
you have gotten from developers so far has been far more than your
attitude has deserved.

Personally, i think any developer who continues to interact with you
until you are able to file specific technical issues with enough
detail that even I can attempt to confirm, is wasting their valuable
time which they could be spending doing other things.. more useful
things.
I challenge everyone who thinks about replying to you anymore in the
mailinglist to instead use those 5 minutes to do something
constructive or life-affirming (wash some dishs, close some bugs, hack
on a patch, smoke some pot, or in mharris's case take a shower)...
because this continued rehashing of the same difference of opinion is
just a huge waste of time.

> All that is left is developer ego.  Any business that placed customer
> concerns before developer ego would have restored Lilo long ago.

Again, this reeks of misconception. Fedora is not a bought and sold
product, there are no customers for Fedora. If you want to make an
argument like this that is going to resonate.. go somewhere where they
are discussing what rhel5 is going to have in it. Fedora is meant as
the proving ground for technologies, with a fast rate of change.  If
this is incompatible with your personal interests, please take the
time to find a project or product that better fits your needs.

-jef