FC4t2 no good without LILO

[Jeff Spaleta]

On Apr 12, 2005 5:09 PM, Dana Lacoste <dana.lacoste at peregrine.com> wrote:
> I tried and tried and tried to make Test1 install to an existing
> partition but it refused

That's news to me... you filed that as a bug right? 

> I found a solution (boot with hda=cyl,heads,sectors) but not on this
> mailing list (or any other fedora mailing list for that matter) but on
> a website where someone had posted "how I made fedora install on my
> thinkpad"

Is this issue in bugzilla? Its great that people find workarounds...
its not so great if those workarounds and the problems associated with
those workarounds never actually get filed.

> the FC4 installs do not work on very very very common hardware and
> any time we ask for help or understanding or a way to use tools that we
> know _do_ work we get told that we're not helpful and should shut up.

As soon as people start talking about specific technical issues...
conversations get better as a general rule. The people you have
singled out as being appreciative of in this round of discussion..did
an exceedingly POOR job of participating in this discussion in a
manner that invites civil discourse. General bickering do not make for
constructive conversations. Peter has gone out of his way now, more
than once in this thread, to ask for specific situations where grub is
the peice of software at fault.
 
> I'm trying to find out what Fedora's goal is: 

There are a set of umbrella objectives for the project.  

>I know RedHat controls it 
Correction controls Core... and manages Extras.

> but when it just plain doesn't
> work with my brand new laptop, made by such a small little known company (IBM)

Laptops... are their own special breed of support hell.
If you have specific issues, file a bug and try to work through it
with the developers. Deep hardware issues are probably kernel related,
though it depends on the specific issues.  New laptop models will have
new issues.. its the nature of laptops and their bizarro specific
hardware/bios issues. Hardware specific issues can be a real pain in
the ass to debug.. if you don't have the hardware as a developer...
and laptops are really good at having very pedantic hardware issues
that are specific to that exact make and model of laptop.

> and I see other people getting frustrated as well and things like OpenOffice
> being installed on a minimal setup....

People who get spitting mad over openoffice accidently being sucked
into a minimal install in test2, need to get some perspective and
possibly some stress or anger management counseling.

-jef"knows from personal experience as a semi-professional verbal
pugilist , people who enter conversations confrontationally are more
interested in the confrontation and not the conversation and certainly
seldom interested in compromise or any sort of result that invovles
2-way communication. While verbal pugilism is entertaining, and well
paying as a blood-sport.. its not particularly useful or appropriate
set of skills to use on other unsuspecting people in public places
like mailinglists. Since society doesn't tend to reward or appeciate
boxers who wade into a crowded mall and start physically pounding
people like they were other pugilistic combatants.. we should likewise
disdain trained verbal pugilists from stepping into public forums and
pummeling people with vicious destructive words."spaleta