Please _do not_ strip out the patch that brings up applications behind gnome-terminal

Sun Feb 5 13:46:37 UTC 2006

On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 18:49 +0900, Jason Montleon wrote:
> How difficult would it be to build in the ability, and make it configurable? 
> I can see the argument to both sides; doesn't _seem_ like it would be that 
> difficult to make it configurable; then again I am not the one writing the 
> code and haven't even looked at it so.....

I agree.  Especially, when using KDE or GNOME as the GUI environment for
a control system.  When calling XRaiseWindow the window must come to the
foreground to report an alarm for example.  We also need the option to
say, "remain on top".

Thanks,
Ernesto

> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Timms" <dtimms at bigpond.net.au>
> To: "For testers of Fedora Core development releases" 
> <fedora-test-list at redhat.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Please _do not_ strip out the patch that brings up applications 
> behind gnome-terminal
> 
> 
> > Fulko.Hew at sita.aero wrote:
> >
> >>Dave Atkins <thedave at ix.netcom.com> on  02/01/2006 12:48 PM responded 
> >>with:
> >>
> >>>On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 21:09 -0800, Miles Lane wrote:
> >>>. . .
> >>>
> >>>If it's down to voting for one or the other, I can't stand applications
> >>>that steal the focus or the foreground.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I agree with that statement.  Applications that are already running
> >>shouldn't steal focus,  However the first window an application creates
> >>should _always_ be on top.
> >>
> > What if in your terminal you type in succession:
> > oocalc &
> > mozilla &
> > mplayer &
> > and every app takes 5-10-15 seconds to show ? (like if you don't have the 
> > fastest / most recent machine on the block).
> > Do you want the first one you started to end up on top, the second or the 
> > third ? Or maybe the fastest, (which you start typing in) then second 
> > fastest comes over top, stealing the focus, then third fastest.
> > When I work, the other apps are just tools that I know I'll be needing 
> > soon; and I want them to be ready for my input when I am ready to give 
> > them some work (focus) to do.
> >
> >>I really don't understand why you would want to start an application,
> >>and yet have its window buried underneath everything else.
> >>After all, the reason you executed it, was to use it.
> >>
> >>For the last 20 years the convention has been that when an
> >>application is executed, its window appears on the top of
> >>the stack.  This shouldn't change.
> >>
> > Yes, it really should change. Forcing people to do things in a less than 
> > productive way for a long time doesn't make it right or better! Think of 
> > your computer as your personal assistant: tell it to go do something; when 
> > _you_ are ready respond to the results (app) that it has created, you 
> > change the focus yourself using Alt-Tab (or the mouse if you want to do it 
> > the slow way).
> >
> >>And if you started an app to use it later, then its your responsibility
> >>to push it down the stack wherever _you_ want.
> >>
> > No, I'm doing work involving multiple apps (even maybe testing FC). I need 
> > to gedit  a log file, open bugzilla in a browser, and do a dir list. While 
> > these separate apps are starting up, I re-started the app again from the 
> > menu etc / blah.
> >
> >>...
> >>And finally, to have special code in a terminal emulator that is trying
> >>to second guess what to do based on the timing of typing is ridiculous.
> >>
> > I agree it's not worth changing the default behaviour for terminals 
> > because the new way is better.
> >
> >>> Try using internet explorer
> >>>while working in word, and see how distracting it is.
> >>>
> >>I'm not to sure I understand what your compalining about.
> >>When I use 'word' its on top, and has focus, any painting IE does,
> >>or any other app for that matter, happens underneath.  (BTW I always
> >>use overlapping windows, not full screen windows.)
> >>
> > What about a web site that waits a bit then pops up another window, right 
> > over the top of where you are typing in oowriter. Another great reason for 
> > focus to stay on what you are working on. You'll get to those other apps 
> > when _you_ are ready for them, not when it eventually finishes loading. 
> > You are the master; the computer is _your_ slave :)
> >
> >>>I have really become accustomed to indicating with my mouse onto which
> >>>window I want in front, and into which window I'd like to type.
> >>>
> >>Agreed, but thats once everything has started.
> >>
> > Alt-Tab has been around a long time for switching to next window (which in 
> > this case turns out to be the one you are yet to click on and pre 
> > started).
> > If I have an email with some pages of text, and a link or attachment, I 
> > would prefer to click on the attachment, causing it to preload while I 
> > continue to read the rest of the email. When I finish reading the mail, I 
> > alt-tab to the created window. This is a time saving way to work. I get 
> > enough interuptions all day without the computer interupting me!
> >
> >>... snip ...
> >>
> >>Hopefully, this is 'start under' broken behavious a only a gnome thing,
> >>and KDE doesn't turn its back on 20 years of standards
> >>
> > Hopefully, this much better behaviour becomes standard soon, and on all 
> > operating systems.
> > DaveT.
> >
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> 