Need assistance

Thu Mar 13 03:08:11 UTC 2008

Arne Chr. Jorgensen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Well, I know I must look like a complete idiot, if you happen to read my last
> messages. 
> 
> I know you are all well meaning and so on. But I guess you can understand my
> frustration, as at this very moment I have something that looks as a working maschine.
> Some issues was resolved just a couple of days ago. I have never used IRC before, and
> hoped and tried to get it working in time for the meeting. As now I have sound and
> a desktop, etc. I still have not come around to set up an email reader, - so ?
> For more then 1 year, I have not been able to download email. Imagine having to
> browse the wikipages with lynx, or a desktop in which most buttons fall outside the
> screen. Imagine installing fedora under such circumstances. 
> 
> Imagine trying to get your hands on the source code, while what you are looking for
> isn't supplied. You cannot recreate, compile anything. I did manage to get something
> from rawhide with only "half" answers as what to do, an attempt to recreate the missing parts. 
> 
> When I ask about such things like, could someone please give me an example of
> the command line for the python.bugzilla I did install, as all I get is: 
> 
> xmlrpclib.ProtocolError: <ProtocolError for bugzilla.redhat.com/xmlrpc.cgi: 500 Internal Server Error>
> 
> When I ask, what is it suppose to output - the answer is that use a script, while
> they are not willing to share or tell you what it is. 

I can't help you with this, I have only tried to use that package once so far 
and it didn't work.  The python-bugzilla package is new and very few people will 
have used it; don't be surprised noone is jumping up to help you figure it out.. 
I think it probably still has many bugs.  The xmlrpc interface is typically 
scripted which is why you got that answer.  The few people who have messed with 
that are very busy... handling bugs on dozens of packages.

>>> I am happy to just be a "guest" - don't need any write access or much of anything.
>>>
>> You shouldn't need a fedora account then, you can leave this for later.
>>
> 
> Well, when I said "guest" - it was because earlier answers did somehow indicate unwillingness or doubts regarding account. 

Anyone can get a fedora account.  But to become involved with packaging or 
directly editing software you need cvs commit access, and to get that you need 
to have a sponsor (someone who already has that access and is willing to work 
with you to make sure you know how the fedora system works).  I'm not one of 
those people, just a tester.

>>> But earlier - when you supplied me with how to get PGP key and such,
>>> things broke, and resorted to other ways of getting stuff.
>> Ways of getting what? 
>>
> 
> For instance - they way first instructed as to download or get some code, and
> such. 
> 
>> If you don't need to edit the wiki or provide other
>> contributions (like packages, documentation) you don't need to do anything with
>> gpg at all. To test and post to the list you don't need to bother with that.
>>
> 
> Right, but some of the info and suggestion we have discussed here, would have
> to be written one day, or all my questions and your answers has all been for nothing.
> But, okay..I may spend some more time, attempting to get my own server up and running,
> write what ever I like - some could then check it out and see if anyone would view
> it as valuable for sharing or not. 

It would definitely be helpful to the community if you had things to share and 
write up on the wiki or contribute to software, I'm just saying it would 
probably be easiest for you to become more comfortable with the various places 
that resources are, for instance, koji.fedoraproject.org, 
bodhi.fedoraproject.org, the source rpms in the repos.

>>From my point of view, to find out how that key-stuff works, would be interesting,
> as it could be valuable for use on my own server.

It takes alot of time to figure out the 'key-stuff', I know.

>> To test and post to the list you don't need to bother with that.
>>
> 
> Okay, fine.. I understand what you say - but ..well, to test what ? 
> I am not happy to "test" anything in which I don't receive some insight and understanding. When I explained that I only received server errors in my attempt
> to resolve that PGP Key, I consider that as part of testing: 
> 
> a) the user enter something wrong
> b) there is a 'bug' or something that cause the error.

If you post those errors I'd be happy to suggest something, although I cannot 
guarantee I can help you make it work.  First you really need to understand what 
gpg is doing (if you do that is good, if not some general FAQ pages on 
public/private key encryption would be a good place to start, see gnupg.org).

With gpg/pgp (basically the same thing), you encrypt a document (the CLA) using 
your private key.  That document can only be decrypted with your public key, 
otherwise it becomes gibberish when decrypted with any other key.  You send your 
public key to the Fedora account system, and it is able to recover the document, 
thereby guaranteeing it was 'signed' by your private key.

Again, I've been testing rawhide, posting bugs, and posting to the email lists 
in the Fedora community for years and I have not even signed the CLA.  I would 
suggest, respectfully, that you just leave that step for the short term.

What 'testers' do around here is download the packages that get built and put 
into the updates-testing repo (for F7 or F8) or download and run the development 
repo packages (rawhide).  You just update regularly, notice what does not work 
correctly, and post bugs.

If you want to engage in more direct testing, such as working on a specific 
package of software, you probably want to put your efforts upstream, at the 
primary developers of the software.  Fedora tries to keep all the development 
upstream if possible, so that what Fedora's software currently is looks just 
like what the upstream developers release.

> Bugzilla Bug 243172: APIC-Error "timer not connected to IO-APIC  - well, what
> is it ? Is a 8254 timer there ? ( I designed I/0 controller cards, made them, programmed them for more then 20 years ago. Do they really use that old chip ? )
> And I have the APIC documents, and of course I like to know what this is all about.
> I have also pointed out what seems to be the error - so ? we should have the
> kernel source code ? ) 

I cannot answer the question about the APIC, although I am fairly well versed in 
hardware.  The specific hardware being used by the bug reporter could very well 
be using such an old chip, I don't know.  The kernel source also may be using 
the same basic source for many similar chips and if it calls out something 
specific its not necessarily just that one chip being found.

You can get the kernel sources from the current repository.  You can get it via 
browser or through yum, but the simplest is browsing, or use wget.
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/releases/8/Everything/source/SRPMS/

You can also get currently being worked on packages and srpms from the koji 
build system, http://koji.fedoraproject.org -> search for kernel, choose the 
latest F8 build that has a success checkmark.

You can download the kernel via cvs, see this message for info you really want 
it this way.

http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2008-March/msg00471.html

> To test and file bugs, well..I have tried to help a bit, see 
> Bugzilla Bug 436644: Tgif does not work - I redesinged Tgif 18 years ago, made
> a new application. 
> 
> I am not that interested in filing bugs, but I do need to know all about how 
> the system works in order to test out some new ideas about how the whole process
> could be done. 
> 
> People have called, and shipped me half across the globe, in order to solve computer
> problems where OEM and other "experts" failed. But that is years ago, and hardware
> and programs are much more difficult today. So much that none have solved some of
> the issues with my hardware. And it is pretty hopeless when you cannot even
> get your email. To not be able to do anything for a whole year, because nothing
> will drive or boot your hardware. And Vista has been a lot of trouble too, besides
> it doesn't run anything I am interested in. 

I scrapped vista after about 30mins using it.

>> To test and post to the list you don't need to bother with that.
>>
> 
> Well, most can do that, so why the heck should I struggle with it in textmode,
> with no mailreader, without some decent computers running ?  
> 
> When things crashed, I got a temporary solution in receiving your emails, but
> without access to download it. I asked if you had archeives, if there was a treaded
> list, - but no, answer I got was "don't think so, and besides the things change
> so fast, why bother ?"  

Whoever told you that was wrong.  The archives are posted and downloadable. 
Here are a few links to them.

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/

Searchable views of the lists here:
http://fcp.surfsite.org/modules/newbb/index.php?cat=8

> Here I have struggled to collect answers, understand stuff, but without being able
> to participate - for a damn year. And 2 days ago, I learn that you do have an archeive, and it is even threaded !!!!
> 
> fuck ...
> 
> //ARNE

Yeah I'm sorry you didn't realize that earlier.

-- 
Andrew Farris <lordmorgul at gmail.com> www.lordmorgul.net
  gpg 0xC99B1DF3 fingerprint CDEC 6FAD BA27 40DF 707E A2E0 F0F6 E622 C99B 1DF3
No one now has, and no one will ever again get, the big picture. - Daniel Geer
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