2009-07-22 - Fedora QA meeting recap

James Laska jlaska at redhat.com
Thu Jul 23 00:42:20 UTC 2009

Full IRC transcript available at

= Attendees =

* Adam Williamson (adamw)
* David Pravec (dpravec)
* Jesse Keating (f13)
* jeff_hann
* James Laska (jlaska)
* Josh Boyer (jwb)
* Mel Chua (mchua)
* Kevin Fenzi (nirik)
* John Poelstra (poelcat)
* Sebastian Dziallas (sdziallas)
* Jóhann Guðmundsson (viking-ice)
* Will Woods (wwoods)

* Kamil Paral (kparal)

= Agenda =

[https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00438.html Proposed meeting agenda]

== Previous meeting follow-up ==

# [jlaska] - Notify team list (fedora-test-list) to solicit volunteers
for help with Debugging pages (see http://tinyurl.com/n6n24f)
#* http://jlaska.livejournal.com/5693.html

adamw suggested what would be tricky about this is finding out what the
necessary info _is_ in the cases where we want debugging pages.
adamw and viking_ice indicated their movie preference (see below).
f13 suggested the idea of conducting maintainer interviews to use as
information gathering sessions to collect debugging information.

# [jlaska] - Create a QA:Meeting matrix similar to
[[Bugzappers_meeting_matrix]] to determine best fit for meeting slots
#* See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA_Meeting_Matrix

adamw suggested a nice web app for coordinating meeting times in the
future - http://whenisgood.net

== QA Meeting time change ==

See fedora-test-list
[https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00304.html mail] and [[QA_Meeting_Matrix]]

The team selected Monday at 16:00 UTC as the new QA meeting time.

== In the news ==

=== Alpha blocker bug day#2 ===

In preparation for this Friday's blocker bug day#2, jlaska asked the
group for volunteers to help announce and summarize the event (in
accordance with the draft SOP

* Adamw offered to send out bug zapper announcements
* Jlaska will send out a summary of the blocker bug meeting
* Poelcat noted the meeting time has changed to 11:00am (EDT) to avoid a
conflict with the FESCO meeting

F13 suggested it would be good to perform some rawhide testing prior to.
Jlaska reminded folks about Liam's email requesting installer testing
for the Alpha Candidate (see
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00429.html).  Some discussion followed about a Alpha blocker {{bz|513020}}

=== Alpha test compose ===

The F12 Alpha schedule has a test compose being handed off next week
(2009-07-29).  See Liam's announcement at
inviting testers to contribute installation test results against the
upcoming Alpha Candidate.

F13 had issue with the announcement:
# ''[Liam] called it a candidate.''
# ''[Liam]'s inviting the world to participate, but we're not delivering
it to the world. It's not being mirrored.''

F13 indicated that download servers fail to keep up with the demand, and
wwoods suggested the slower download speed prevents testers from testing
the ISO's.  Some discussion followed, with several participants offering
suggestions (mirrors or bittorrent) and others offering historical
perspective to the problem.  Poelcat and jlaska suggested this is more
an issue for the fedora-infrastructure team to devise a clever solution
for ... and not for the QA or RelEng teams to solve.

Jlaska took an action item to engage with fedora-infrastructure team for
a solution.

Adamw asked why we are asking for install testing if blocked by {{bz|
513020}}.  Jlaska offered that Liam is getting the pages and test
coordination started early

Jlaska suggested point#1 is a minor wording oversight, and point#2 is
not a concern for QA.

=== Dracut gone raw ===

[[Features/Dracut]] is planned to hit rawhide in the next few days.
Viking_ice requested discussion around dracut in the meeting.

According to hhoyer, dracut will be landing in rawhide any day now.
hhoyer also addressed some of my comments in the feature page
(https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/Dracut) and indicated
additional information on a ''contingency plan'' and ''test plan'' would
be arriving soon.  Harald also offered his thoughts on the current state
of dracut tests:

Thorny areas (potentially buggy):
* strange raid setups
* incomplete/degraded raid setups
Should work:
* MD, DM Raid
* cryptoLUKS
* everything else.

Not yet implemented:
* loop mount
* FCoE
* ipv6

Viking_ice asked additional questions around testing dracut, including:
# Are we rolling live iso' s with dracut (including gnome, kde and XFCE
# if they are built using our build system?

Viking_ice volunteered to reach out ot Harald for additional information
to help guide Dracut testing now and for the Dracut test day.

== AutoQA update ==

Updates from wwoods on initial automation efforts
Updates from dpravec on autotest package testing

dpravec suggested many co-workers in Brno feel we should use beaker and
not autotest.  Jlaska noted that the beaker project is still maturing
and does not yet meet the full test automation needs of the
israwhidebroken.com project.  Wwoods later noted that beaker is
inventory / system provisioning, it currently lacks a test harness and

dpravec noted there was no updates on the testing of the
[https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/9 autotest package], and would
have more results by Monday.

Wwoods updated the group that the first
[https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/browser/rawhide_acceptance 4 test
cases] of [[QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan]] have been automated and
are running in demo instances of the autotest server.  The next step
will be automating the installation test cases using some incantation of

F13 expressed concern we're falling short of "do something useful ASAP".
Jlaska indicated that the group is progressing towards the
israwhidebroken.com target date of Aug 18th.  F13 stated ''... this
whole thing started back at FUDCon Boston with the idea of doing
something useful in 3 weeks, useful in 3 months, useful in 3 quarters.
So I feel that I've failed miserably in delivering something useful to
our maintainers based on those timelines.''  Jlaska, wwoods and adamw
pointed out some project highlights since FAD and noted things are
progressing towards stated objectives.  F13 concluded expressing
frustrations that his window to help the project is closing as the
release engineering commitments increase.

== Open discussion ==

=== Sugar on a stick Test Day ===


sdziallas informed the team he has been doing the Sugar on a Stick work
for Sugar Labs lately, which is basically a rebranded Fedora base system
with the Sugar packages on top. We're really interested in maintaining a
good connection to the Fedora community (given that I started as a
Fedora guy, too)... and would also like to test the Sugar implementation
in Fedora.

Discussion followed on how best to offer a test day slot, the result is
a Sept 3, 2009 ''Sugar on a stick'' test day slot.

Mchua noted the event could be used to test the state of mediawiki
+semantic integration.

=== Improving Rawhide ===

dpravec noted that from talking with Fedora users, seems to me that best
what we can do to improve quality of releases is to make some smoother
rawhide repository, which will contain only packages without serious bug
or dependency problems. similar to debian unstable/testing... this would
enourage people to test latest (or week old) packages. 

f13 noted we're going to get essentially that if my no frozen rawhide
proposal goes though .

Discussion followed comparing difference between the debian and fedora
development models.

= Upcoming QA events =

* 2009-07-24 - [http://FIXME Alpha Blocker Bug Meeting #2]
* 2009-07-28 - [[BugZappers/Triage_days]]
* 2009-07-29 -
Alpha Test Compose]
* 2009-07-27 - [[QA/Meetings/20090727]] at 16:00 UTC 

= Action items =

* [Viking-Ice] - updating meeting channel page w/ new QA time
* [jlaska] - discuss ideas for getting test candidates out to teesters

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