IRC Log 19/06
couf at skynet.be
Wed Jun 20 19:45:10 UTC 2007
21:02 < couf> <meeting>
21:02 < couf> <rollcall>
21:02 < MrTom> Thomas Canniot (fr)
21:02 < couf> Bart Couvreur (nl)
21:02 < glezos> Dimitris Glezos (el, greek)
21:02 < stavrosg> Stavros Giannouris (el)
21:02 < DomingoBecker> DomingoBecker (es)
21:02 < noriko> Noriko Mizumoto (ja)
21:02 < apeter_> Ani Peter (ml)
21:02 < mishti> Runa Bhattacharjee (bn_IN Bengali (INDIA))
21:02 < vpv> Ville-Pekka Vainio (fi, Finnish)
21:03 < couf> </rollcall>
21:03 < couf> meeting agenda can be found here:
21:03 < MrTom> Ok today agenda is available here
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings. Please write "!" when you
want to talk (I will give you the right to speak :) ) and use "eof" when
you have finished talking
21:04 < MrTom> The first point is about out Communication way
21:04 < glezos> !
21:04 < MrTom> We would like to know what you think of our tools to
communicate between each other inside the FP
21:04 < MrTom> > glezos
21:04 * jeremy is here (-ish)
21:05 < glezos> Thanks Tom. First of all, a big thanks to everyone who
21:05 < glezos> It's much better than just on the mailing list :)
21:05 < glezos> I hope we can make it to have regular meetings, to get
to know each other
21:06 < glezos> and get motivated by each other's work to do more and
make fedora more accessible to more users
21:06 < glezos> It's not easy, but we sure try! :)
21:06 < glezos> eof
21:07 < MrTom> Thanks glezos.
21:07 < MrTom> Then, as you are talking about it, what do you (everyone)
think about having regular meetings ?
21:07 < glezos> +1
21:07 < mishti> +1
21:07 < MrTom> +1
21:07 < noriko> +1
21:07 < vpv> +1, definitely
21:07 < apeter_> +1
21:07 < couf> +1
21:07 < glezos> cool.
21:07 < DomingoBecker> +1
21:08 < MrTom> as everybody seems to agree, is every two week a good
21:08 < DomingoBecker> +1
21:08 < couf> +1
21:08 < MrTom> +1
21:08 < couf> !
21:08 < noriko> yp +1
21:08 < stavrosg> I think it is too frequent
21:08 < MrTom> > couf
21:08 < mishti> +1 with stavrosg
21:09 < couf> heh stavrosg you took my point: not everyone has to be at
21:09 -!- IgorPS [n=igorps at fomalhaut.grad.dcc.ufmg.br] has joined
21:09 < couf> we'll send out the logs and meeting agenda's ahead of time
21:09 < couf> eof
21:09 < MrTom> ok the once a month may be a more appropriate pace then
21:09 < glezos> !
21:10 < MrTom> > glezos
21:10 < glezos> OK, it is true that each team works more-or-less
21:10 < glezos> but at this period of time, too much is happening in the
21:11 < glezos> and maybe we should consider having some meetings every
2 weeks, even if it's just for getting together and letting each other
know how we are doing
21:11 -!- apeter__ [n=apeter at 184.108.40.206] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:11 < couf> glezos, +1
21:11 < glezos> I've been doing a bunch of work lately and to be honest,
I'd really like some feedback on it
21:11 < noriko> +1 glezos
21:11 < DomingoBecker> +1 glezos
21:11 < jeremy> glezos: and if it turns out that there's nothing to talk
about, then the meetings can become less frequent
21:11 < glezos> For example, *right now* mmcgrath is setting up
21:11 < glezos> jeremy: right.
21:11 -!- [splinux] [n=damien at fedora/splinux] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:11 < vpv> +1, we can change it later if it seems too frequent...
21:12 < glezos> so, even if it's only 4 people showing up, we could
discuss for 15 minutes and split
21:12 < MrTom> please use "!" and eof, it will really help us having
21:12 < glezos> eof
21:12 < couf> !
21:12 < MrTom> > couf
21:12 < couf> it's good to keep some eye and status on what's going on
in the project especially now, eof
21:12 -!- ani [n=apeter at 220.127.116.11] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
21:12 -!- Rasther [n=Diego at fedora/Rasther] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:13 < stavrosg> !
21:13 -!- EvilBob [n=bob at fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen] has joined
21:13 < MrTom> > stavrosg
21:14 -!- Rathann [n=rathann at 18.104.22.168] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:15 -!- apeter__ is now known as ani
21:15 < stavrosg> So, if I understand correctly, the intent for the
frequent is mostly for discussing progress in a more direct than the
mailing list manner than decision making
21:15 < stavrosg> if so, frequent meetings is a good idea, yes.
21:15 < stavrosg> eof
21:15 < MrTom> !
21:15 < MrTom> > MrTom
21:15 < MrTom> the big deal is that it may kill the mailing list
21:16 < MrTom> we have the problem with the French ambassadors
21:16 < MrTom> eof
21:16 < mishti> !
21:16 < MrTom> > mishti
21:16 < glezos> stavrosg: right. IRC meetings aren't very good for
debate. In the mailing list you get to elaborate more on your thoughts.
And besides, there's not much debate we can do in one hour.
21:17 < mishti> Mailing list might not be killed as everybody is not
joining in for the IRC meets all the time. They'll be tracking things
21:17 -!- alexxed [n=alex at dyn-22.214.171.124.tm.upcnet.ro] has joined
21:17 < mishti> And what is the problem with the French Ambassadors?
21:17 < mishti> eof
21:17 < couf> mishti, +1
21:17 < glezos> !
21:17 < MrTom> they use less and less the ml :)
21:17 < MrTom> > glezos
21:17 < glezos> Besides, after each meeting we will post a summary on
21:18 < glezos> Issues that require decision making will be discussed on
the ML so that everyone can participate.
21:18 < glezos> eof
21:19 < MrTom> ok then let's organize every week meeting, and we see how
things will go and if we could slow the pace of meetings if needed
21:19 < couf> !
21:19 < MrTom> > couf
21:19 < glezos> (by the way, let's try to follow up with the agenda
on /wiki/L10N/Meetings and not get (a lot) over 1 hour)
21:19 < couf> discussion about meeting hour should take place on the ml
for example, not here
21:20 < couf> we just need to agree that it's necessary, and I figure
that has been decided
21:20 < glezos> +1 for weekly meetings, at least for 2-3 weeks. +1 for
ML discussion for meeting time.
21:20 < couf> point for ML -> decide definitive meeting hour
21:20 < couf> eof
21:20 < noriko> ?
21:20 < MrTom> ok, then let's talk about Language maintainers now.
glezos would like to talk about it.
21:21 < noriko> I thought we are discussing fortnightly vs monthly?
21:21 < MrTom> noriko let's do it on the list, i'll send a mail about it
right after the meeting
21:21 < noriko> thanks MrTom
21:21 < MrTom> let's move on, there are many things to discuss and very
21:22 < glezos> MrTom: shall I get with the maintainers?
21:22 < MrTom> glezos sure
21:22 < glezos> so, here's the thing with the current situation
21:22 < glezos> We're doing great job in translations
21:22 < glezos> *great*
21:23 < glezos> it's amazing to see so many languages having so many
21:23 < glezos> and we are doing documentation as well
21:23 < glezos> the thing is that we have stayed a bit away from the
21:23 < glezos> maybe it's because we've left it for the i18n team, I'm
21:24 < glezos> but there are a lot of things that we could do to make
our translations better
21:24 < glezos> One, is to have languages on bugzilla for bugs to be
21:24 < glezos> other is to do some tasks like open bug reports for
21:25 < glezos> I suggest each language to have one or two, or more
persons "responsible" for it
21:25 < glezos> so that I can say "hey, Tom, please don't forget to let
the french translation team know about *this*"
21:25 -!- wolfy [n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:25 < glezos> eof
21:26 < MrTom> what do people think about this ?
21:26 < glezos> (not sure I made any actual point there though :)
21:26 < couf> !
21:26 < MrTom> > couf
21:26 < alexxed> having designated persons who take responsability for
translations is a good idea, but how is that reflected in practice ?
21:27 < MrTom> alexxed please use "!" !
21:27 < couf> just clarifying: for bugzilla every language needs a
21:27 < MrTom> couf first
21:27 -!- apeter_ [n=apeter at 126.96.36.199] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
21:27 < alexxed> !
21:27 < couf> this can be the language maintainer or in some cases the
21:28 < MrTom> eof couf ?
21:28 < couf> it's important to have someone who can come here to the
l10n-project and say "hey, this translation isn't correct, please
21:28 < couf> and that we can direct them
21:29 < couf> it would help getting the quality of translations
21:29 < couf> now eof MrTom
21:29 < MrTom> > alexxed
21:29 < alexxed> so I was asking how is the responsability reflected in
practice, is that person the only one who can commit to cvs ?
21:30 < glezos> !
21:30 < alexxed> eof
21:30 < MrTom> > glezos
21:30 < glezos> alexxed: definitely no :)
21:30 < glezos> Basically, a maintainer would be something like a
spokesman for the language team
21:31 < glezos> His email address shows up first in the bugzilla
component of the language for example.
21:31 < glezos> If bugzilla is broken and the language team mailing list
doesn't receive the bug requests automatically, he'll send an email
telling it to the main ML
21:31 < glezos> he's the guy a maintainer will send an email saying "can
you please tell your team to fix the PO file because it's broken?"
21:32 < alexxed> !
21:32 < glezos> It's much better if we had names of real persons behind
the term "X team"
21:32 < DomingoBecker> !
21:32 < glezos> like a chair or something. For most languages it's very
obvious who this person is, but other than that, it doesn't mean
*anything* more at all
21:32 < glezos> no special privileges, just responsibilities. :)
21:32 < glezos> eof
21:32 < MrTom> > alexxed DomingoBecker
21:33 < MrTom> alexxed first and then DomingoBecker
21:33 < alexxed> ok, having a maintainer is definitely a good idea,
mozilla does it and it works well like this
21:34 < alexxed> about the opening of bugs for messed up texts in
translations, that is done in mozilla, but there are quite few tickets,
I don't think people take the trouble to file a bug for this
21:34 < alexxed> so if it's to much trouble to set up bugzilla for this,
maybe it's not worth it right now
21:34 < alexxed> eof
21:35 < couf> !
21:35 < DomingoBecker> I think it is a good Idea to have bugzilla email
the right person for a bug in translations
21:35 < MrTom> > DomingoBecker couf
21:35 < DomingoBecker> In my case, it was not almost necessary
21:36 < DomingoBecker> When I needed something to be corrected, It was
only necessary to change the PO file
21:36 < DomingoBecker> and then I saw the changes in the next package
21:36 < DomingoBecker> in the automatic update system
21:36 < DomingoBecker> It works just fine for me
21:36 < MrTom> DomingoBecker eof ?
21:37 < DomingoBecker> I heard other people had problems with their own
21:37 < DomingoBecker> locale
21:37 < DomingoBecker> eof
21:37 < mishti> !
21:37 < MrTom> > couf mishti
21:37 < couf> alexxed, it's easily done, some scripts do that for all
the rest of Fedora
21:37 < couf> we just set up a owners.list and a sync-script does the
21:38 < couf> that list is btw on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Teams which needs some updating
21:38 < couf> if your locale isn't on it, please add it and your
21:38 < glezos> I contacted warren today to make it happen. Hopefully in
the next 1-2 days we'll be on Bugzilla.
21:38 < couf> please be sure, you have a valid bugzilla login
21:38 < couf> eog
21:38 < MrTom> > mishti
21:38 < couf> eof
21:38 < mishti> currently not all languages have a fedora-trans-<lang>
ML. can this be made mandatory at the time a new language is added?
21:39 < couf> !
21:39 < mishti> and also translate .fpo seems to be down
21:39 < mishti> eof
21:39 < MrTom> > couf
21:39 < warren> glezos, I can create the product but I can't sync the
owners.list, you'll have to ask jeremy.
21:39 < IgorPS> !
21:39 < warren> glezos, perhaps you could ask jeremy to do both?
21:39 < couf> mishti, some rule says 5 people must be in a locale to get
21:39 < glezos> warren: jeremy will tell us if he can :)
21:39 < jeremy> warren: if you get the product created, I can easily
turn on the sync for it
21:39 < couf> we can of it, but I'd make that less priority
21:40 < couf> eof
21:40 < noriko> !
21:40 * couf hugs jeremy and warren
21:40 < MrTom> > IgorPS
21:40 < IgorPS> I think having a maintainer is a good idea, mainly for
21:40 < MrTom> jeremy warren and glezos don't forget ! and eof
21:40 < IgorPS> but I see some problems with bugzilla
21:40 < IgorPS> it is not localized
21:40 < IgorPS> and some users dont know how to use it well
21:41 < glezos> !
21:41 < warren> Is that for logging? We aren't really part of this
21:41 < IgorPS> i think we should do somethink to better comunicate with
21:41 < IgorPS> eof
21:41 < MrTom> IgorPS eof ?
21:41 < MrTom> warren please....
21:41 < MrTom> > noriko glezos
21:41 -!- nman64 [n=n-man at fedora/nman64] has quit [Read error: 104
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21:41 < noriko> <couf> mishti, some rule says 5 people must be in a
locale to get a list
21:41 < warren> Isn't this a really strange way to log a meeting? Why
not log the entire channel during your meeting?
21:42 < noriko> this is not God's rule, we can change it as needed.
21:42 < noriko> eof
21:42 < warren> People will make mistakes
21:42 -!- dimitris [n=dimitry at athedsl-209342.home.otenet.gr] has joined
21:42 < MrTom> > glezos
21:42 < glezos> warren: no worries. :-) It's just because we are too
21:43 < glezos> IgorPS: There's no obligation to use BZ. Anyone can use
any way they see fit to notify the translation team about a bug
21:43 -!- dimitris [n=dimitry at athedsl-209342.home.otenet.gr] has left
21:43 < glezos> IgorPS: If your team wants to have a wiki page that
anyone could edit for bug tracking, that's also fine :)
21:43 < IgorPS> !
21:44 < glezos> I've sent an email to admins at fpo to request less than 5
people as a minimum. I'm +1 for having mailing lists even for 2 people.
21:44 < glezos> eof
21:44 < MrTom> > IgorPS
21:44 < IgorPS> This is a better idea
21:44 < IgorPS> we could make it a pattern for other teams
21:44 < IgorPS> like a "wiki bugzilla"
21:45 < vpv> !
21:45 < IgorPS> Bugzilla itself is more for advanced users
21:45 < mishti> !
21:45 < IgorPS> eof
21:45 < MrTom> > vpv mishti
21:45 < glezos> Guys, it's getting late.. We should get this discussion
on the mailing list.
21:45 -!- ani [n=apeter at 188.8.131.52] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
21:45 < vpv> please make the mailing list optional, we only have 2
members and don't really need it, eof
21:46 < mishti> IgorPS: bugzilla+wiki can be a method but bugzilla ought
to be made mandatory...as it will help in cross-referencing as well as
21:46 < MrTom> > mishti
21:46 < MrTom> and then we move on
21:47 < mishti> vpv: imho mailing list ought to be there to keep a
record of things..if translation team members move on
21:47 < mishti> eof
21:47 -!- wolfy [n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy] has left #fedora-meeting ["I
spilled Spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone."]
21:47 < MrTom> ok, let's talk about glezos new l10n website.
21:47 < MrTom> do you have coments on it ?
21:47 < MrTom> or is the ml enough for it
21:48 < glezos> MrTom: I think comments should go on the mailing list
'cause it might take too long.
21:48 < glezos> I just wanted to say that the progerss has been very
21:48 < glezos> we are now deploying it at translate.fpo, which will
have some problems in the next hours because we are putting it on a
21:49 < glezos> also, I'm working on the second part of the website,
which is the "submit" one. Translators can use it to commit files to
git, hg, and remote CVS repositories
21:49 < glezos> I'm satisfied with the progress, should be ready in 5-7
21:50 < glezos> We'll have a bugzilla component for bugs etc, and of
course a wiki page.
21:50 < glezos> I should note here that this isn't just a project of
21:50 < glezos> Also, I don't work for RH :)
21:50 < glezos> it's our website, so please, if you have comments,
suggestions, send them.
21:50 < mishti> !
21:50 < glezos> It's made to make *our* work easier.
21:50 < glezos> eof
21:51 < MrTom> > mishti
21:51 < mishti> glezos: how is the "submit" going to work, since
authentication will be required for submission into version control
21:52 < mishti> eof sorry
21:52 < glezos> mishti: More info can be found at
21:52 < glezos> mishti: Basically you'll just authenticate as a cvsl10n
member, and the website will do the commit for you.
21:52 < glezos> eof.
21:52 < mishti> !
21:52 < MrTom> > mishti
21:53 -!- mether [i=ask at fedora/mether] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:53 < mishti> glezos: in that case..the authentication keys etc of a
centralised user will be used?
21:53 < mishti> eof
21:54 -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim at m37.net81-64-156.noos.fr] has quit [Remote
closed the connection]
21:54 < glezos> yes. The remote SCM repo will have a generic
'fedoral10n' user registered, which during the commit, will put the real
person's username, Name/Surname and email info in the Commit
21:54 < glezos> eof
21:55 < MrTom> ok we have 5 minutes to talk about l10n.fpo and
21:55 < MrTom> i guess it is a topic ideal for the five minutes
21:55 < couf> !
21:55 < MrTom> > couf
21:56 < couf> another clarification: it's translate.fp.o not l10n.fp.o
21:56 < glezos> MrTom: we can continue the discussion in #fedora-l10n
21:56 < couf> as l10n is something obscure
21:56 < couf> eof
21:57 < MrTom> ok then if you are interested we can continue the
discussion on #fedora-l10n
21:57 < MrTom> we have to stop the meeting for now on this channel
21:57 < glezos> MrTom: there is no other meeting after ours
21:58 < glezos> so we can stay here.
21:58 < couf> hmm, not really, we've got another meeting
21:58 < MrTom> really ?
21:58 < glezos> until someone kicks us out
21:58 < couf> s/got/got no
21:58 < MrTom> ok then let's stay :)
21:58 < stavrosg> ?
21:59 < glezos> Is everyone OK with the website named translate.fpo
instead of l10n.fpo?
21:59 < couf> > stavrosg
21:59 < IgorPS> !
21:59 < glezos> The reason is because it leaves the distinction with
22:00 < stavrosg> I was going to ask if the name was decided or not
22:00 < stavrosg> anyway, translate.fp.o is better in every respect
22:00 < couf> > IgorPS
22:00 < stavrosg> eof
22:00 < IgorPS> I prefer translate.fpo, l10n is really obscure
22:00 -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim at m37.net81-64-156.noos.fr] has joined
22:00 < IgorPS> Its not clear for other people the sign l10n
22:01 < IgorPS> eof
22:01 < glezos> stavrosg: it isn't decided, no
22:01 < mishti> !
22:01 < couf> > mishti
22:01 < glezos> stavrosg: I told Infra that we probably prefer
translate.fpo but we'll know for sure after the meeting and if someone
has any objection on the ML
22:01 < glezos> eof
22:02 < mishti> glezos: we can have a vote on the ML later perhaps
22:02 < mishti> eof
22:02 < stavrosg> +1
22:02 < DomingoBecker> +1 for the vote
22:02 < couf> okay, ultimate decision due next week on ML
22:02 < glezos> mishti: well, the meeting summary will say what our idea
was. If anyone objects, we can discuss it
22:03 < noriko> !
22:03 < couf> > noriko
22:03 < glezos> mishti: but sure, we could have a vote nevertheless.
22:03 < noriko> It would be nice if the reason why translate is better
22:03 < noriko> or the reason l10n is good on ML
22:04 < noriko> for further discussion.
22:04 < noriko> eof
22:04 -!- IgorPS [n=igorps at fomalhaut.grad.dcc.ufmg.br] has quit 
22:04 < glezos> OK, I'm writing an email right now about it.
22:04 < couf> thanks glezos
22:04 < couf> move on?
22:04 < couf> in 5
22:04 < couf> 4
22:04 < couf> 3
22:04 < couf> 2
22:04 < couf> 1
22:05 < couf> next topic: I18N bugs
22:05 < couf> Apps not having translator-credits, untranslatable help
files (eg. system-config-network). Also, our packages don't use GNOME's
guidelines (eg. have POTFILES.in and LINGUAS files)
22:05 < glezos> I suggest to discuss this on-list or at the next
meeting. It's getting late.
22:05 < couf> glezos, this is yours
22:05 < couf> cool
22:05 < couf> objections?
22:05 < glezos> and in India is *really* late.
22:05 < mishti> :)
22:06 < couf> So I'd say lets adjourn the meeting, and do the rest of
the topics another time
22:06 < glezos> couf: may I suggest something?
22:06 < couf> we've done a *lot* today
22:06 < couf> > glezos
22:06 < glezos> couf: Maybe someone has an important topic to discuss
22:06 < glezos> or soemthing important to say
22:07 < couf> hey, you read my mind
22:07 < glezos> so before ending the meeting (besides, *we* choose if we
are ending it or not)
22:07 < glezos> Anyone has anything to say, any topic we should discuss
22:07 < MrTom> !
22:07 < couf> > MrTom
22:07 < glezos> And have it included in the meeting log? Otherwise,
we'll discuss off-meeting in #fedora-l10n
22:07 < glezos> eof
22:07 < noriko> !
22:07 < MrTom> i guess we have to thank everybody again for attending
22:08 < MrTom> eo
22:08 < MrTom> eof
22:08 < couf> > noriko
22:08 -!- MrTom [n=mrtom at fedora/MrTom] has quit [Read error: 104
(Connection reset by peer)]
22:08 < noriko> when is next meeting :)
22:08 < noriko> ops. eof
22:08 < glezos> I suggest next week. The people from India have
suggested to do it 2 hours earlier.
22:09 < noriko> ouch
22:09 < glezos> So, can someone from India please get a discussion going
for doing it 2 hours earlier?
22:09 < mishti> !
22:09 < glezos> (a discussion on the mailing list)
22:09 < couf> > mishti
22:10 < mishti> glezos: i did not see any objections from India..and
this time is kind of ok..else its worse for APAC people
22:10 < mishti> eof
22:10 < mishti> s/objections besides mine i mean
22:10 < mishti> eof
22:10 < glezos> mishti: well, we can try, why not. Besides, it's late
even for eastern europe.
22:11 < glezos> Igor is not here (brazil)
22:11 < glezos> but he'll raise any objections on the list
22:11 < glezos> So, let's suggest same time, 2 hours earlier then.
22:11 < glezos> Hopefully we'll have less stuff to discuss. :)
22:11 < glezos> eof
22:11 < couf> noriko, is that a problem for you?
22:12 < noriko> couf: well... :(
22:12 < noriko> it will be 03:00am here
22:12 < noriko> honestly bit hard
22:12 < glezos> noriko: where is there? :)
22:13 < noriko> brisbane time (besides i am on Gold Coast)
22:13 < noriko> Australia
22:13 * couf loves global community
22:14 < glezos> ouch
22:14 < glezos> noriko: OK, let's discuss this on the list, and we'll
22:14 < mishti> couf: glezos: honestly 12:30 is not too bad in
India...just need to finish in abt an hour or leave early
22:14 < mishti> but yea discussion on ML is better
22:14 < glezos> we can make a table on the wiki page and write on it the
hours we can't make it.
22:14 < noriko> yea... discuss on ML better
22:15 < glezos> Like this one:
22:15 < couf> right + maybe do a double-hour thing
22:15 < glezos> couf: right. even for just 2-3 weeks
22:15 < couf> okay, this should go to ML
22:16 < couf> anything else you want to discuss?
22:16 -!- alexxed [n=alex at dyn-184.108.40.206.tm.upcnet.ro] has left
22:17 * mishti has none right now...besides thanking everyone for
setting up the meeting
22:17 < noriko> thank you so much all your hard working to make this
22:17 * couf starts shutdown count
22:17 < couf> 30
22:17 < noriko> pls start with 5
22:17 < glezos> so, see you on the mailing list and in 1 week. :-)
22:18 < couf> 15
22:18 < couf> 5
22:18 < couf> :)
22:18 < couf> 4
22:18 < couf> 3
22:18 < couf> 2
22:18 < couf> 1
22:18 < couf> </meeting>
Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be>
key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93
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