FLP Meeting 2008-03-04 IRC log

Runa Bhattacharjee runab at redhat.com
Mon Mar 17 16:13:03 UTC 2008

March 05 <00:35:17 *	couf has changed the topic to: FLP Meeting - fedora-board meeting at
#fedora-board-meeting and #fedora-board-public - init
March 05 <00:35:19 *	glezos_afk is now known as glezos
March 05 <00:35:55 <couf>	<meeting>
March 05 <00:36:06 <couf>	so who's here?
March 05 <00:36:20 <glezos>	Dimitris Glezos
March 05 <00:36:29 <couf>	Bart Couvreur
March 05 <00:36:32 <runa_b>	Runa Bhattacharjee
March 05 <00:37:07 *	MrTom (n=mrtom at fedora/MrTom) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <00:37:14 <MrTom>	hi, ThomasCanniot
March 05 <00:37:45 <couf>	meeting topics: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Meetings
March 05 <00:38:06 <couf>	anyone want to chair / summarize?
March 05 <00:38:54 *	glezos could summarize
March 05 <00:39:24 *	couf thanks glezos
March 05 <00:40:08 <couf>	so I'll spearhead this one then
March 05 <00:40:42 *	couf has changed the topic to: FLP Meeting - fedora-board meeting at
#fedora-board-meeting and #fedora-board-public - new members
March 05 <00:40:54 <couf>	no new memebers here at the moment, this could go really quick
March 05 <00:41:23 <couf>	just wanted to know if we've seen a huge amout of newcomers since the
final elvis-move?
March 05 <00:42:19 <glezos>	couf: no huge amount
March 05 <00:42:37 <glezos>	however, the latest feedback I got from the RH i18n team was that elvis
had around 300-400 <active users
March 05 <00:42:39 *	tombolinux (n=tombo at fedora/tombo) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <00:43:20 <glezos>	and currently cvsl10n has 280 <people, so I think the news are not bad.
Could be better though.
March 05 <00:43:40 <couf>	right
March 05 <00:44:07 <couf>	have all the @rh internal translators joined us yet, or are they working
on a different level?
March 05 <00:45:00 <glezos>	runa_b:?
March 05 <00:45:09 <runa_b>	couf: most of them are working via transifex
March 05 <00:45:37 <couf>	great :-)
March 05 <00:45:38 <runa_b>	couf: it would be best to float a mail on the mailing list to check the
actual status as the teams are based at various locations
March 05 <00:46:22 <glezos>	runa_b: would you like to handle it?
March 05 <00:46:35 <runa_b>	glezos: sure.. :)
March 05 <00:47:10 <runa_b>	couf: your query was to check if transifex is being used by all?
March 05 <00:47:46 <couf>	runa_b: well yeah, if they've changed to the new system, if they all
worked on elvis until recently
March 05 <00:47:54 <couf>	so you've actually answered that
March 05 <00:48:14 <runa_b>	ahh ok
March 05 <00:49:03 <couf>	lets just keep the "we've got the new system up, join here" in the news
for a little bit longer, post-string freeze would be a good moment to send a reminder out
March 05 <00:49:56 *	couf has changed the topic to: FLP Meeting - fedora-board meeting at
#fedora-board-meeting and #fedora-board-public - previous meeting updates
March 05 <00:50:18 <couf>	previous meeting was:
March 05 <00:50:37 <couf>	any updates on the action items?
March 05 <00:51:18 *	glezos sent the email for a new meeting time, no replies
March 05 <00:51:20 *	stickster has quit (Read error: 110 <(Connection timed out))
March 05 <00:51:28 <MrTom>	!
March 05 <00:51:43 <couf>	go ahead MrTom, speak freely
March 05 <00:52:18 <MrTom>	there is actually a new item to add : which is my work on the ergonomics
of transifex, that i we try to handle by the end of this week, as I am in holiday till the end of
the month :)
March 05 <00:52:52 <couf>	awesome
March 05 <00:53:32 <MrTom>	this should not be a whole revamp of transifex, but a "move this button
there" to make it more consistent
March 05 <00:54:19 <glezos>	I like Tom's ideas in this area, and they seem easy fixes as long as
we've got a concrete list of "this and this needs these changes"
March 05 <00:54:37 <MrTom>	you'll have
March 05 <00:54:41 <couf>	+1
March 05 <00:54:42 *	glezos will jump right in once we have those
March 05 <00:55:20 <MrTom>	:)
March 05 <00:55:23 <couf>	which ties in neetly too ...
March 05 <00:55:29 *	couf has changed the topic to: FLP Meeting - fedora-board meeting at
#fedora-board-meeting and #fedora-board-public - FOSDEM update
March 05 <00:55:41 <glezos>	To follow up with other action items, no new modules have been added
March 05 <00:56:07 <glezos>	I did some work to make sure every module works, and AFAIK every module
that doesn't has a bug report open to their maintainer.
March 05 <00:56:36 <couf>	glezos++
March 05 <00:56:59 <couf>	so next was a fosdem update (summary:
March 05 <00:57:07 <glezos>	runa_b: any news from the UI testcase front?
March 05 <00:57:29 <runa_b>	glezos: nope.. i was going to mention it once we finish the agenda items
March 05 <00:57:30 <couf>	ow missed that, sorry :-/
March 05 <00:57:49 <glezos>	ok
March 05 <00:57:49 *	stickster_ (n=pfrields at ip72-209-237-99.dc.dc.cox.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <00:59:39 <couf>	fosdem meeting updates: anything? or comments/suggestions?
March 05 <01:00:43 <MrTom>	not for me
March 05 <01:00:59 <glezos>	spevack collected all blog posts about it at
March 05 <01:02:44 <couf>	let's just wait for comments on the mailinglist
March 05 <01:03:06 *	ln- (i=lauri at vanha.ksenos.fi) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:03:12 *	couf has changed the topic to: FLP Meeting - fedora-board meeting at
#fedora-board-meeting and #fedora-board-public - Dev updates
March 05 <01:03:32 *	runa_b had a question about the FOSDEM meeting notes
March 05 <01:03:42 <couf>	runa_b: go ahead
March 05 <01:04:18 <runa_b>	couf: "Same language can be written in a slightly different way
depeneding on the country (de_DE vs de_CH)" => What is the reference for this comment?
March 05 <01:04:51 <runa_b>	There are already quite a few language groups with Country-based
differences...pt, pt_BR, bn, bn_IN
March 05 <01:05:04 <couf>	ah, some languages are spoken the same, but written differently
March 05 <01:05:28 <couf>	right, the problem here was that we don't really have a decent point of
view on this
March 05 <01:06:31 <couf>	so the DE-maintainer (swiss) choose to write everything with a double ss,
which would be wrong in real german (because they use this special beta-type charachter)
March 05 <01:06:51 <couf>	it was more of a concern, but imo it's inevitable
March 05 <01:07:21 <runa_b>	couf: ahh ok
March 05 <01:07:41 <runa_b>	I'd say it would really depend on the people speaking/writing the language
March 05 <01:08:03 <couf>	+1
March 05 <01:08:28 <couf>	we just need to back up the people making thoose choices
March 05 <01:08:47 <runa_b>	right
March 05 <01:08:53 <glezos>	having some guidelines, though, would be helpful
March 05 <01:09:04 *	pygi (n=mario at has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:09:05 <runa_b>	how does gnome does it?
March 05 <01:09:21 <runa_b>	iirc..they have atleast 15 <Spanish locales listed
March 05 <01:10:29 <glezos>	I guess a Q on gnome-i18n-list could get some answers.
March 05 <01:10:43 <runa_b>	hmm... ok.
March 05 <01:11:14 <runa_b>	perhaps we could take it to the mailing list, might require detailed
March 05 <01:11:25 <runa_b>	from other projects and language groups
March 05 <01:11:41 <runa_b>	there is also the issue about same languages using different scripts
March 05 <01:12:28 <glezos>	This sounds like an issue that affects particular languages
March 05 <01:12:37 <glezos>	so people from those teams could take a stab at it
March 05 <01:13:09 *	bpepple_ (n=bpepple at adsl-75-60-198-173.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net) has joined
March 05 <01:13:39 <couf>	so let's take thuis guideline: choose whatever seems the most correct
thing if in that certain situation, maybe do a small announcement on both the trans-list and also
the <lang>-trans list
March 05 <01:13:58 <couf>	and from that point on, we'll keep it as it is, untill a majority wants to
March 05 <01:14:38 <glezos>	Maybe we should discuss this on list with more people involved in the
March 05 <01:14:51 <runa_b>	+1
March 05 <01:15:07 <couf>	sure
March 05 <01:15:26 *	stickster_ has quit (Connection timed out)
March 05 <01:16:17 <glezos>	Should we move on? (clock is ticking:)
March 05 <01:16:22 <couf>	indeed
March 05 <01:16:23 *	gregdek (n=gdk at nat/redhat/x-5ecf35989fba3a52) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:16:26 <couf>	dev updates?
March 05 <01:16:56 *	bpepple_ is now known as bpepple|lt
March 05 <01:17:22 <glezos>	Not much from me ($dayjob too busy), besides making sure all modules
work and the rest have bug reports opened
March 05 <01:18:21 <couf>	okay, moving on
March 05 <01:18:32 *	couf has changed the topic to: FLP Meeting - fedora-board meeting at
#fedora-board-meeting and #fedora-board-public - /cvs/elvis
March 05 <01:18:34 <glezos>	asgeirf_ is working on fixing some DL bugs, I don't of any public push yet
March 05 <01:19:00 <glezos>	don't *know*
March 05 <01:19:14 <glezos>	What I do know is that he's a bit frustrated with it. :-)
March 05 <01:19:33 <couf>	well you know, it's DL :-)
March 05 <01:19:47 <couf>	why do you think it's Damned
March 05 <01:19:50 <glezos>	It's a good software, but designed in a different way than what we'd like
March 05 <01:20:37 *	wolfy (n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:21:20 <couf>	glezos: you've had a chat about /cvs/elvis with petreu, need for any
mentioning here?
March 05 <01:21:34 <glezos>	oh, yeah, I'd like your feedback on that
March 05 <01:21:45 <glezos>	currently cvsl10n has access to /cvs/docs/.*/po/*
March 05 <01:22:01 <glezos>	so petreu was wondering if we could have that for /cvs/elvis as well
March 05 <01:22:29 <glezos>	The reason is to have command-line access to specspo, which is a large
March 05 <01:23:00 <runa_b>	glezos:  is this in context to the permission error that petreu was
talking about earlier in the evening?
March 05 <01:23:07 <glezos>	runa_b: yes
March 05 <01:23:15 *	wolfy (n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy) has left #fedora-meeting ("If swimming is so
good for your figure, how do you explain whales?")
March 05 <01:23:16 <runa_b>	ahh ok.
March 05 <01:23:21 *	bpepple|lt has quit (Client Quit)
March 05 <01:23:28 <couf>	I've never tried to upload specspo through tx, does this time-out?
March 05 <01:23:30 *	bpepple_ (n=bpepple at adsl-75-60-198-173.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net) has joined
March 05 <01:23:45 <glezos>	Giving access to translators to specspo isn't easy, there's no way to do
it and I woudn't like putting more weight on infra
March 05 <01:24:13 *	bpepple_ is now known as bpepple|lt
March 05 <01:24:24 <glezos>	So a specific translators could request access to the 'cvsspecspo' group
if she'd like. We can't do it for all translators though.
March 05 <01:24:44 <glezos>	However, when the CLI interface for Tx arrives, this will not only just
work for specspo, but for all modules.
March 05 <01:25:26 <couf>	what's the eta (roughyl) for the CLI?
March 05 <01:25:41 <couf>	if it's possible pre-trans freeze, I'd leave it as is
March 05 <01:26:25 <glezos>	couf: With the current amount of time I can spend on developing
Transifex, 1 <month for a production solution
March 05 <01:26:47 *	GeroldKa (n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:28:46 <glezos>	Unless the web interface isn't working at all, I'm leaning to keeping
things simple
March 05 <01:29:10 <glezos>	s/to/towards/
March 05 <01:29:13 <couf>	+1
March 05 <01:29:27 <glezos>	From what I see, submissions do succeed.
March 05 <01:29:37 <glezos>	If they don't, let me know immediately.
March 05 <01:30:08 <couf>	okay, and if they really want to do cvs: join cvsspecspo
March 05 <01:30:33 <glezos>	right.
March 05 <01:30:46 <couf>	okay, last topic
March 05 <01:30:57 *	couf has changed the topic to: FLP Meeting - fedora-board meeting at
#fedora-board-meeting and #fedora-board-public - Steering committee
March 05 <01:31:05 <couf>	before AOB that is :-)
March 05 <01:31:17 <couf>	http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2008-February/msg00071.html
March 05 <01:31:24 <couf>	and all answers to it
March 05 <01:31:38 <runa_b>	+1 <to the steering committee :)
March 05 <01:32:02 <runa_b>	how is it formed if its an initial committee?
March 05 <01:32:15 <couf>	officially the project is run by two leaders (RH-employees)
March 05 <01:32:57 <couf>	+1 <to SCo too
March 05 <01:33:05 <couf>	formation is pretty liberal
March 05 <01:34:03 <couf>	I'd go with the FDSCo way of doing stuff: which would be start a
self-nomination period and have elections
March 05 <01:34:11 <glezos>	+1
March 05 <01:34:17 <runa_b>	+1
March 05 <01:34:31 *	palosba (n=chatzill at fw2.js26.ba.netlab.sk) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:35:07 <couf>	for more info on there way of working:
March 05 <01:35:24 <couf>	and more importantly
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Charter and
March 05 <01:35:33 <glezos>	I suggest to leave a couple more days in case someone raises any objection
March 05 <01:36:10 <glezos>	And then to have an action plan on this. Eg. Copy/adapt pages from Docs,
propose some dates, request feedback, announce.
March 05 <01:36:34 <couf>	+1
March 05 <01:36:42 <couf>	I'll flesh this out on-list
March 05 <01:36:58 <couf>	and lets see where it goes :-)
March 05 <01:38:04 <runa_b>	+1 <to glezos
March 05 <01:38:24 <glezos>	I am confident that enough people will nominate themselves for the board.
March 05 <01:38:40 <glezos>	especially when we have the appropriate wiki pages ready.
March 05 <01:38:53 <couf>	right
March 05 <01:38:57 *	bpepple has quit (Connection timed out)
March 05 <01:40:33 <runa_b>	couf:  can i go ahead with the UI test cases topic?
March 05 <01:40:38 *	JSchmitt (n=s4504kr at p54B107B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:40:43 <couf>	sure
March 05 <01:40:50 <runa_b>	couf: thanks
March 05 <01:40:52 <glezos>	OK, we could continue this discussion on the list. Ask more people to
join the discussion, I think most of them are feeling shy, although they have tons of ideas to bring.
March 05 <01:41:39 <runa_b>	Well the UI Testcases idea was to have a set of Testcases that would
help people review the important parts of the translated User interface
March 05 <01:42:08 <runa_b>	Nothing could be done since the past meeting... no excuses..
March 05 <01:42:15 *	GreyEagle (n=rob at has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:42:26 <runa_b>	I'd like to propose this idea on the mailing list tomorrow, if it sounds
March 05 <01:44:26 <runa_b>	does it sound do-able?
March 05 <01:45:04 <glezos>	runa_b: everything is doable given enough time. :
March 05 <01:45:05 *	GreyEagle (n=rob at has left #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:45:05 <glezos>	:)
March 05 <01:45:17 <couf>	I'd propose it, and see what the list thinks about doability
March 05 <01:45:29 *	couf has no idea what this is going to turn out to so :-)
March 05 <01:45:34 <glezos>	runa_b: Any chance of getting together people from your office to flesh
out an initial draft?
March 05 <01:46:03 <runa_b>	glezos: i could send a proposal to the mailing list and then check with
the QE team if they would be able to help out
March 05 <01:46:09 <glezos>	You guys have a great team and locality, so a lot of good stuff could
come out
March 05 <01:46:18 <runa_b>	some of them are already on the FLP.. :)
March 05 <01:46:43 <glezos>	Right.. I was thinking of a f2f brainstorming session or sth similar
March 05 <01:47:02 <runa_b>	ahh ok...surely can check up on that
March 05 <01:47:43 <glezos>	ok
March 05 <01:47:45 <glezos>	great
March 05 <01:47:46 <couf>	that would be awesome
March 05 <01:48:09 *	couf has changed the topic to: FLP Meeting - fedora-board meeting at
#fedora-board-meeting and #fedora-board-public - AOB
March 05 <01:48:11 <runa_b>	i guess there was a suggestin to align it with the page that vpv was
putting together
March 05 <01:49:15 <couf>	right
March 05 <01:49:26 <couf>	so anything else on this subject?
March 05 <01:49:36 <couf>	or anything else on a different subject?
March 05 <01:50:36 <glezos>	A quick note to say that the server timezone has been changed to UTC
March 05 <01:50:49 <glezos>	so all dates appearing on the websites will now be UTC
March 05 <01:51:31 *	stickster (n=pfrields at ip72-209-237-99.dc.dc.cox.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:51:49 *	alexxed has quit ("Leaving.")
March 05 <01:52:08 *	couf closes meeting in 60
March 05 <01:52:47 *	couf closes meeting in 30
March 05 <01:52:54 <glezos>	ah
March 05 <01:52:59 <glezos>	I've remembered something
March 05 <01:53:06 <glezos>	Fedora Weekly News
March 05 <01:53:09 *	jcollie (n=jcollie at has joined #fedora-meeting
March 05 <01:53:14 <glezos>	Why aren't we on them?
March 05 <01:53:49 <glezos>	And what we could do to get on them?
March 05 <01:54:13 <couf>	because we've got no beat writer :-/
March 05 <01:54:41 <glezos>	(FWIW, the FWN team just needs someone to get together the week's most
important updates (if any) on a wiki page)
March 05 <01:54:54 <glezos>	every Sunday
March 05 <01:55:37 <glezos>	any ideas for my second Q?
March 05 <01:56:35 <mether	glezos: send a request for help on every avenue you can find
March 05 <01:56:36 <couf>	I'm willing to do it, but if someone wants to take it, go ahead
March 05 <01:57:25 <glezos>	OK, I'll blog about it, couf can you do so as well?
March 05 <01:57:32 <mether	glezos: usually getting covered in FWN will get more attention and more
contributors, so it is well worth the effort to spam
March 05 <01:57:37 <couf>	yep, sure
March 05 <01:57:44 <glezos>	k
March 05 <01:58:16 *	couf restarts count at 30
March 05 <01:58:30 <glezos>	couf: we could do it in alternate weeks if no contributor steps up
March 05 <01:58:57 <couf>	glezos: yep
March 05 <01:59:06 <glezos>	It's a pretty important medium, and as mether says, it will bring more
March 05 <01:59:12 <glezos>	and attention.
March 05 <01:59:56 <mether	just covering important announcements and discussions wont take more than
half an hour
March 05 <02:00:03 <glezos>	Hoping someone energetic enough would like to contribute back to the FLP
this way!
March 05 <02:00:52 <couf>	<final-countdown>
March 05 <02:00:54 <couf>	10
March 05 <02:01:00 <couf>	5
March 05 <02:01:02 <couf>	4
March 05 <02:01:03 <couf>	3
March 05 <02:01:04 <couf>	2
March 05 <02:01:06 <couf>	1
March 05 <02:01:11 <couf>	</final-countdown></meeting>
March 05 <02:01:21 <couf>	thanks all
March 05 <02:01:25 <runa_b>	Thanks everyone
March 05 <02:01:41 <glezos>	thanks couf for spearheading
March 05 <02:01:52 *	couf has changed the topic to:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel -- Meetings often get logged -- see
schedule in the wiki for next meeting

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