From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Dec 1 00:18:08 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:18:08 -0600 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1133380781.19569.85.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> <1133380781.19569.85.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <438E4140.5040807@n-man.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 13:52 -0500, Diana Fong wrote: > > >> - "Get Fedora" ... can also do with or without the period. >> > > It was Paul who made the point originally, and I was certain that it was > a specific GNOME documentation style guide. You may not know, but in > FDP we specify this order for deciding style: > > 1. Chicago Manual of Style > 2. GNOME Documentation Style Guide > 3. Fedora Documentation Guide > > That is, we default to 1, then 2, and note exceptions in 3. This is > typical of writing projects, having a canonical reference outside of the > project, and noting project rules and exceptions in a style guide. > > So, it may be a CMS recommendation that I can't look up. It is not, > unfortunately, specified in the GNOME guide ... but, if you look at the > ToC for that guide, you won't see a title or heading with a period in > it: > > http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/index.html > > We will be sure to include this rule in the next version of the Fedora > Documentation Guide. For now, I'll just ask all to remember that we > don't put periods in titles. FWIW, Mozilla didn't either with "Get > Firefox". > > - Karsten > The question I would like to raise is this: Is it a title, or is it an introductory statement? I agree that a period does not belong in a title, but it does belong in an introductory statement. We simply have to decide which one this is. When I was coming up with the design for the current front page, I tried both ways. The current result presents it as a title, without a period. The design I have produced as a prototype uses it more as an introductory statement, in which a period would belong. How do we want to use it? -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tchung at fedoranews.org Thu Dec 1 00:26:01 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:26:01 -0800 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <438E4140.5040807@n-man.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> <1133380781.19569.85.camel@erato.phig.org> <438E4140.5040807@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20051201002428.M13606@fedoranews.org> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:18:08 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote > The question I would like to raise is this: Is it a title, or is it an > introductory statement? > > I agree that a period does not belong in a title, but it does belong in > an introductory statement. We simply have to decide which one this is. > When I was coming up with the design for the current front page, I tried > both ways. The current result presents it as a title, without a > period. The design I have produced as a prototype uses it more as an > introductory statement, in which a period would belong. How do we want > to use it? > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > www.n-man.com > -- Please don't shoot me. :) Have we considered "Get Fedora!" ? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FedoraMain -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From tchung at fedoranews.org Thu Dec 1 00:31:30 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:31:30 -0800 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <20051201002428.M13606@fedoranews.org> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> <1133380781.19569.85.camel@erato.phig.org> <438E4140.5040807@n-man.com> <20051201002428.M13606@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <20051201003011.M49777@fedoranews.org> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:26:01 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote ... > Have we considered "Get Fedora!" ? > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FedoraMain > In addition, we could use a few different customized banners just like: http://www.spreadfirefox.com/ -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 02:24:58 2005 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 10:24:58 +0800 Subject: Where has www.fedoraproject.org.cn gone? Message-ID: <76e72f800511301824i2555d64dh@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I want know when and why www.fedoraproject.org.cn was pointed to another server several days ago. I still miss the great mirror there: fast, reliable both for public and education use. When will the mirror server be back online? And I don't think it is a good idea to point the domain name to another unrelated entity, because that makes fedora full of political color. Looking forward to hear from you. -- bbbush ^_^ From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Dec 1 02:51:12 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:51:12 -0600 Subject: Where has www.fedoraproject.org.cn gone? In-Reply-To: <76e72f800511301824i2555d64dh@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800511301824i2555d64dh@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <438E6520.9080702@n-man.com> Yuan Yijun wrote: > Hi, > > I want know when and why www.fedoraproject.org.cn was pointed to > another server several days ago. I still miss the great mirror there: > fast, reliable both for public and education use. When will the mirror > server be back online? And I don't think it is a good idea to point > the domain name to another unrelated entity, because that makes fedora > full of political color. Looking forward to hear from you. > > > -- > bbbush ^_^ > > I doubt anyone on this list will know. You'll have to ask Red Hat Beijing. Try yshao at redhat.com. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Dec 3 03:14:07 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:14:07 -0600 Subject: CMS Decision Message-ID: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> We really need to move forward on selecting a CMS. It is highly unlikely that we'll see a PHP solution selected. I've heard many calls for Drupal, but let's not count on it. In particular, if a PHP solution is chosen, we'll have to be very, very careful in picking it out, and we'll probably need to disable any more dangerous functionality. In the case of Drupal and many others, that would include XML-RPC. There aren't many Python solutions out there, but we need to scour what is available very carefully. Many people were or would have been doubtful of what we could accomplish with MoinMoin, and look at all we've managed to do. The Fedora Project wiki is at the top of the list of MoinMoin's list of example wikis[1]. We can accept that there may need to be work done on whatever solution we select to get it where we want it. We've got a large pool of talent that will be wiling to help with that. I've added this to the Schedule[2], and placed an arbitrary target date of 2006-01-13 on this item. Let's see if we can get it done any sooner. I know the guys working on the Fedora Unity project[3] have been working on a similar problem, and Thomas Chung of FedoraNEWS.ORG has been in the market recently. I'd love to hear what they've learned. Anyone else with recent experience or examples of good CMS implementations can chime in. Some demos are available at http://www.opensourcecms.com/ for people to check out. Happy hunting! [1] http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinWikis [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Schedule [3] http://fedoraunity.org/ -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Dec 3 04:00:26 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 20:00:26 -0800 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133582426.14239.77.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-12-02 at 21:14 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > We really need to move forward on selecting a CMS. Or deciding to just use Moin Moin like a CMS and add features, whichever is the better solution. I understand Seth's questioning of what a CMS provides us. It's one thing to want a big feature set, it's another thing to actually use it. _If_ we can get an immediate commitment to utilize Fedora resources to extend our current tools (Moin Moin, XML, XSLT, CSS, CVS), that might be faster than coming up to speed on a Python-based CMS ... that probably needs further extension to make it work for us. It's a self-tail-biting solution, we keep coming up on ourselves from the rear. If we have enough investment in our current tools, can we move forward with them faster than with a new tool? > It is highly unlikely that we'll see a PHP solution selected. I've > heard many calls for Drupal, but let's not count on it. In particular, > if a PHP solution is chosen, we'll have to be very, very careful in > picking it out, and we'll probably need to disable any more dangerous > functionality. In the case of Drupal and many others, that would > include XML-RPC. The PHP route has far more obstacles, and it doesn't sound as if anyone is doing anything to resolve them. Or has someone packaged Drupal for FE? Regardless, as long as Duke.edu is providing a platform for fp.o, we are beholden to the will o' Seth on this matter. Can we just make the decision "No PHP," swallow the bitterness, and move on? > There aren't many Python solutions out there, but we need to scour what > is available very carefully. Many people were or would have been > doubtful of what we could accomplish with MoinMoin, and look at all > we've managed to do. The Fedora Project wiki is at the top of the list > of MoinMoin's list of example wikis[1]. We can accept that there may > need to be work done on whatever solution we select to get it where we > want it. We've got a large pool of talent that will be wiling to help > with that. Can we enable that talent to get busy? Is our Moin Moin source in CVS somewhere? Can we start hacking on it, or offering patches? OK, friends, I can support NIH, as long as we are empowered to staff the project. If we are going to say, "Python only," let's recruit some Python help to extend Moin Moin exactly where we need it to go. Recruit, like, yesterday. > Some demos are available at http://www.opensourcecms.com/ That site is specifically for listing PHP and MySQL-based solutions. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:06:01 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:06:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1133582426.14239.77.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133582426.14239.77.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > Regardless, as long as Duke.edu is providing a platform for fp.o, we are > beholden to the will o' Seth on this matter. Can we just make the > decision "No PHP," swallow the bitterness, and move on? No, because (a) a PHP solution might be the best one, all things considered (b) we aren't constrained to hosting it on Seth's machine. I am trying very hard to make the current Red Hat-hosted Fedora machines open to all who want to use them - the most difficult thing right now is finding people who are willing to use the access I've given :). Best, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:18:33 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 01:48:33 +0530 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133582426.14239.77.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4394A099.2030504@redhat.com> Hi > >I am trying very hard to make the current Red Hat-hosted Fedora machines >open to all who want to use them - the most difficult thing right now is >finding people who are willing to use the access I've given :). > What are the tasks that require such access to these systems?. What skill sets? regards Rahul From sopwith at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:24:06 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:24:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4394A099.2030504@redhat.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133582426.14239.77.camel@erato.phig.org> <4394A099.2030504@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > What are the tasks that require such access to these systems?. What > skill sets? Working on the pending infrastructure projects listed http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora Keeping machines up-to-date. (And a lot of the machines need plain old reinstallation, with RHEL4 instead of RHEL3.) Reading logs and e-mails to fix the inevitable hiccups. etc. Best, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From sopwith at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:27:37 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:27:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: Thanks for spurring this effort along, Patrick! On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Patrick Barnes wrote: > We really need to move forward on selecting a CMS. > > It is highly unlikely that we'll see a PHP solution selected. I've > heard many calls for Drupal, but let's not count on it. In particular, > if a PHP solution is chosen, we'll have to be very, very careful in > picking it out, and we'll probably need to disable any more dangerous > functionality. In the case of Drupal and many others, that would > include XML-RPC. Agreed. > There aren't many Python solutions out there, but we need to scour what > is available very carefully. Many people were or would have been > doubtful of what we could accomplish with MoinMoin, and look at all > we've managed to do. The Fedora Project wiki is at the top of the list > of MoinMoin's list of example wikis[1]. We can accept that there may > need to be work done on whatever solution we select to get it where we > want it. We've got a large pool of talent that will be wiling to help > with that. So I've been looking around for a CMS, on and off, for proably four or five months. I'll just throw my ideas so far out there as a starting point: . Zope. We just have to look at it seriously because it's in Python. Its main weaknesses are performance and ease of use. . Drupal. PHP. Very cool in general. Main weakness is the security concerns. It also lacks a version history of pages, which is something important to me personally. . Typo3 is a CMS-type thing in PHP. Its biggest shortcoming when I tried it was its complexity. . Midgard is a PHP CMS that I haven't looked into. Someone should evaluate it, because its features look very attractive overall. . Turbogears and Django. Two Python web "frameworks" that make it easier to write web apps, but don't offer an actual CMS themselves. . Various Java solutions such as Apache Lenya. Haven't looked into this space much, even though it's probably where the most action is. . What we've got already. The basic idea is perfectly sound, and everyone knows how to use CVS. This is the baseline that the new solution needs to improve on, so one good question is "what do we need that we don't have now?" I do not consider wikis a viable starting point. They don't seem conducive to keeping the site organized. Maybe there is one out there that has the features necessary to do this, but I haven't seen those features in Moinmoin. :) http://www.la-grange.net/cms has a list of open source CMS's. Best, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:29:32 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 01:59:32 +0530 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133582426.14239.77.camel@erato.phig.org> <4394A099.2030504@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4394A32C.6000706@redhat.com> Elliot Lee wrote: >On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > >>What are the tasks that require such access to these systems?. What >>skill sets? >> >> > >Working on the pending infrastructure projects listed >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora > >Keeping machines up-to-date. (And a lot of the machines need plain old >reinstallation, with RHEL4 instead of RHEL3.) > I think I will sign up for that then. How do I go about doing that? regards Rahul From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Dec 5 20:32:43 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:32:43 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133814763.32551.24.camel@cutter> > . Turbogears and Django. Two Python web "frameworks" that make it > easier to write web apps, but don't offer an actual CMS > themselves. djangoproject.com already has doc and article submission code up on the site. I even posted about that. The code is available and it wouldn't take that much work to use it. I'm glad to hear that no one is even reading my emails anymore. > I do not consider wikis a viable starting point. They don't seem conducive > to keeping the site organized. Maybe there is one out there that has the > features necessary to do this, but I haven't seen those features in > Moinmoin. :) What kind of organization do you desire? How are you hoping to have things arranged. This is the first time I've heard this complaint against the wiki so I'm curious now how you are defining organized. -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:33:24 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:03:24 +0530 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <4394A414.2080809@redhat.com> Hi > . What we've got already. The basic idea is perfectly sound, and > everyone knows how to use CVS. This is the baseline that the new > solution needs to improve on, so one good question is "what do we > need that we don't have now?" > > As I posted to the list before one of the useful things to have is a web based task manager. We make heavy use of task lists throughout the wiki. regards Rahul From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:28:16 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:28:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Elliot Lee wrote: > . What we've got already. The basic idea is perfectly sound, and > everyone knows how to use CVS. This is the baseline that the new > solution needs to improve on, so one good question is "what do we > need that we don't have now?" This is the heart of the conversation. There's lots of "cool" stuff in Drupal, but what do we *need*, really? Here's my wish list: 1. Calendars. We can do this with standalone ics files. 2. Translatability. We should be able to break content out into easy translation strings. 3. Form processing. Straight CGI, eh? What else do we *really* need for the static / "authoritative" site? I'm perfectly fine changing f.r.c to some more Fedora-friendly domain name, btw. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:37:58 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:07:58 +0530 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <4394A526.7070900@redhat.com> Hi >I'm perfectly fine changing f.r.c to some more Fedora-friendly domain >name, btw. > Not sure what that means. Can you expand on that? regards Rahul From sopwith at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:44:23 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:44:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1133814763.32551.24.camel@cutter> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133814763.32551.24.camel@cutter> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, seth vidal wrote: > > . Turbogears and Django. Two Python web "frameworks" that make it > > easier to write web apps, but don't offer an actual CMS > > themselves. > > djangoproject.com already has doc and article submission code up on the > site. I even posted about that. The code is available and it wouldn't > take that much work to use it. This sounds a bit unrealistic. It would take a lot of work to go from a code snippet that's out there to a fully polished CMS... > I'm glad to hear that no one is even reading my emails anymore. I have a special e-mail filter just for you, dude. (It goes into my 'community people' folder, not to /dev/null :) But there is so much to remember, all I can do is apologize. > > I do not consider wikis a viable starting point. They don't seem conducive > > to keeping the site organized. Maybe there is one out there that has the > > features necessary to do this, but I haven't seen those features in > > Moinmoin. :) > > What kind of organization do you desire? How are you hoping to have > things arranged. > This is the first time I've heard this complaint against the wiki so I'm > curious now how you are defining organized. Wikis don't have a way to build a hierarchy of pages, move branches around, etc. I realize that MoinMoin does have categories, but I don't know that they're hierarchical, and AFAIK there's no way to turn them into a nice little sidebar with an expandable tree. These basic navigation things may sound stupid, but they're important to web site usability. drupal's taxonomies are All That(tm when it comes to keeping pages categorized and organized. Then using a drupal module, you can add a block on the sidebar that displays your current location in the hierarchy of that taxonomy, and your potential navigation destinations. Best, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:39:57 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:39:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4394A526.7070900@redhat.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394A526.7070900@redhat.com> Message-ID: We've got a server at "fedora.redhat.com" right now. It would be pretty simple to just move the box to a domain that is not "redhat.com" and use it as-is. It's certainly not a CMS, but it's what we've got, isn't it? --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >I'm perfectly fine changing f.r.c to some more Fedora-friendly domain > >name, btw. > > > Not sure what that means. Can you expand on that? > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Dec 5 20:52:04 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:52:04 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133814763.32551.24.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1133815924.32551.30.camel@cutter> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 15:44 -0500, Elliot Lee wrote: > > djangoproject.com already has doc and article submission code up on the > > site. I even posted about that. The code is available and it wouldn't > > take that much work to use it. > > This sounds a bit unrealistic. It would take a lot of work to go from a > code snippet that's out there to a fully polished CMS... take a look at the features it offers first. If I can find the time this week I'll try to set it up so you know what you're talking about first. > > What kind of organization do you desire? How are you hoping to have > > things arranged. > > > This is the first time I've heard this complaint against the wiki so I'm > > curious now how you are defining organized. > > Wikis don't have a way to build a hierarchy of pages, move branches > around, etc. I realize that MoinMoin does have categories, but I don't > know that they're hierarchical, and AFAIK there's no way to turn them into > a nice little sidebar with an expandable tree. These basic navigation > things may sound stupid, but they're important to web site usability. > You mean like: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryExtras and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryCategory and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryDesktop like that? -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:51:42 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 02:21:42 +0530 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394A526.7070900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4394A85E.1020202@redhat.com> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: >We've got a server at "fedora.redhat.com" right now. > >It would be pretty simple to just move the box to a domain that is not >"redhat.com" and use it as-is. It's certainly not a CMS, but it's what >we've got, isn't it? > > So are you suggesting that we move the domain content over or just point it to fedoraproject.org?. There is a lot of stale content that we need to remove or update. There are probably other pieces of infrastructure like the accounts system, paypal?, docs system etc regards Rahul From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:51:39 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:51:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4394A85E.1020202@redhat.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394A526.7070900@redhat.com> <4394A85E.1020202@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > So are you suggesting that we move the domain content over or just point > it to fedoraproject.org?. There is a lot of stale content that we need > to remove or update. There are probably other pieces of infrastructure > like the accounts system, paypal?, docs system etc I've already removed a lot of the stale content and done substantial rewriting. Check out HEAD and have a look; that's what Patrick Barnes is doing now. There are definitely other pieces of infrastructure, but we have to tackle the problems as we find them, too. I'm all for contuing the search for the Grand Unified Theory of Fedora Websites -- but we need some updated/translated content, and we need to start somewhere, and the content in f.r.c HEAD is my stab at that starting point. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From sopwith at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:57:23 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:57:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1133815924.32551.30.camel@cutter> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133814763.32551.24.camel@cutter> <1133815924.32551.30.camel@cutter> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, seth vidal wrote: > > Wikis don't have a way to build a hierarchy of pages, move branches > > around, etc. I realize that MoinMoin does have categories, but I don't > > know that they're hierarchical, and AFAIK there's no way to turn them into > > a nice little sidebar with an expandable tree. These basic navigation > > things may sound stupid, but they're important to web site usability. > > You mean like: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryExtras > > and > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryCategory > > and > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryDesktop > > > like that? I'm aware of those pages, but they are not hierarchical (putting a '/' in page names does not add hierarchy support to MoinMoin). They also won't show up on the sidebar of pages throughout the site. Best, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Dec 5 21:03:42 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:03:42 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133814763.32551.24.camel@cutter> <1133815924.32551.30.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1133816623.32551.37.camel@cutter> > I'm aware of those pages, but they are not hierarchical (putting a '/' in > page names does not add hierarchy support to MoinMoin). They also won't > show up on the sidebar of pages throughout the site. It's a fucking theme, Elliot! It's a theme. That's all the sidebar is doing. Nothing fancy. Do you want a list of where you are in the category hiearchy in a theme? Would that make life better for you? Ask Hrishi if he'd be willing to add such a thing to our wiki theme and presto - you can have the categories related on the page. -sv From gdk at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 20:58:29 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:58:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1133815924.32551.30.camel@cutter> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133814763.32551.24.camel@cutter> <1133815924.32551.30.camel@cutter> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, seth vidal wrote: > > Wikis don't have a way to build a hierarchy of pages, move branches > > around, etc. I realize that MoinMoin does have categories, but I don't > > know that they're hierarchical, and AFAIK there's no way to turn them into > > a nice little sidebar with an expandable tree. These basic navigation > > things may sound stupid, but they're important to web site usability. > > You mean like: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryExtras > > and > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryCategory > > and > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CategoryDesktop > > like that? Actually, Seth, I'd say that your examples conclusively demonstate Elliot's point. Those pages are scarcely more useful than running a search through the wiki. And since they're not on a sidebar, a user has *no way* of figuring out where they are without visiting one of these pages. Information architecture is hard -- and more information == more hard. That's one of the reasons I'm kinda skeptical of the whole "CMS" idea in the first place, tbh. For dynamic content, use the wiki. For static content -- which includes high-level content, a decent current map of the dynamic content, and very little else -- I'm in favor of plain ol' web pages, with a handful of people who are tasked with auditing the content every few months on a set schedule. The surface content on Ubuntu's site is certainly well-maintained -- but go a couple of layers deep, and it's the same kind of chaos we face, Drupal or no Drupal. My $0.02. I'm just trying to make something out of what we've got now. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Dec 5 21:11:04 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:04 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133814763.32551.24.camel@cutter> <1133815924.32551.30.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1133817064.32551.43.camel@cutter> > Actually, Seth, I'd say that your examples conclusively demonstate > Elliot's point. Those pages are scarcely more useful than running a > search through the wiki. And since they're not on a sidebar, a user has > *no way* of figuring out where they are without visiting one of these > pages. and as I explained - these sidebars are just theme additions. So if you want to access that data we will need to get the theme changed. But I bet we don't even know what we want on those sidebars. I bet we end up with 40 or 50 different variations like those asinine little boxes slashdot used to have. > The surface content on Ubuntu's site is certainly well-maintained -- but > go a couple of layers deep, and it's the same kind of chaos we face, > Drupal or no Drupal. Out of curiosity what is it that is broken about our current infrastructure? And out of further curiosity - what was it that kept the fedora.redhat.com from having php running on it? -sv From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Mon Dec 5 21:58:14 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:58:14 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133819895.5634.17.camel@ignacio.lan> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 15:27 -0500, Elliot Lee wrote: > So I've been looking around for a CMS, on and off, for proably four or > five months. I'll just throw my ideas so far out there as a starting > point: There's also PyLucid. The documentation leaves something to be desired, but it might do. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Dec 5 22:58:15 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:58:15 -0600 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> Okay, I've read over all the posts that have sprung up on this thread today, and here's how I see it. Basically, it sounds like everyone is leaning in one of two directions: a.) Drupal is great except that it runs on PHP. b.) CVS and good, old-fashioned web skills are a great combination. Well, I think we all have a pretty good idea of what standard features of a CMS are. So lets start from there. * How do we break down everything we need between the wiki and CVS? We can do calendars using whatever calendar software the user prefers and iCal files. We can continue to track tasks on the wiki, but is that process working well enough for everyone? Do we need an alternative? Would calendars with to-do lists work better? We probably need static content for translation. What are the pros and cons of using the wiki for this? CVS? Wiki with regular exports and touch-up for CVS? We want revision control. Both the wiki and CVS can provide this. We want help tickets. How can we manage this using the wiki, CVS, and Bugzilla? If we can answer these with smiles on our faces, there's no real need for separate CMS software. Can anyone think of other needs to add to this list? If we decide we need a CMS solution, what can we do to make a PHP solution like Drupal as secure as possible? We can disable XML-RPC. What other features would we need to disable? Would this cripple Drupal beyond usefulness? What about access; do we want it to be as open as the wiki, or do we want to tighten it a little to protect it? We might in particular want to address isolating Drupal (having it on a server by itself) and trying to add protections for user information, should it be compromised. Also, a point that was brought up elsewhere was CVS access to MoinMoin. Is this something we need or want? Most of MoinMoin would have no need for CVS access. Only the plugins and themes would really be sensible to allow CVS access to. We might also want to consider this for any CMS solution we choose. Finally, there's the domain consideration. Thus far, we've been talking about setting up the CMS solution on fedoraproject.org. I think that if we do choose Drupal or another CMS, we should do exactly that. What if we use the infrastructure that is in place for fedora.redhat.com? I think if we choose to go the CVS route that we should try to put it on fedoraproject.org. We do still want to keep fedora.redhat.com, at least for Red Hat's own messages about Fedora. Is this something we can do? My personal opinion so far: I think we can make CVS, MoinMoin, and Bugzilla work for our needs. I'd like to see CVS on fedoraproject.org. I think that we should use the same account system to manage access to fedoraproject.org as we use for fedora.redhat.com, to eliminate having two sets of web admins. I'd like to move what we have at fedora.redhat.com in CVS HEAD over to fedoraproject.org and begin working on it. We can replace the content at fedora.redhat.com with a very basic bit of information that relays Red Hat's message about Fedora and explains what the exact relationship is and what Red Hat does for Fedora. I'm with Seth in that I would like to eliminate as much PHP as possible. We currently have a little PHP in use for fedora.redhat.com. It is all very simple and generates static content, but I'd like to see it eventually replaced with Python anyway. If we are going to use Drupal, I'd like to see it as isolated as possible and configured by the most paranoid people we can find. I don't want to rule out finding a Python CMS solution, and would love to see everyone who can providing reviews and insights to that end. Thoughts? -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Mon Dec 5 23:15:11 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:15:11 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133824512.5634.19.camel@ignacio.lan> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 16:58 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > If we decide we need a CMS solution, what can we do to make a PHP > solution like Drupal as secure as possible? We can disable XML-RPC. > What other features would we need to disable? Would this cripple Drupal > beyond usefulness? Hell yes. http://secunia.com/advisories/17824/ -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 5 23:18:10 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:18:10 -0800 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133824690.29067.32.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 16:58 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > Okay, I've read over all the posts that have sprung up on this thread > today, and here's how I see it. > > Basically, it sounds like everyone is leaning in one of two directions: > a.) Drupal is great except that it runs on PHP. > b.) CVS and good, old-fashioned web skills are a great combination. > > Well, I think we all have a pretty good idea of what standard features > of a CMS are. Here is a list of use cases that I started on f-docs-l: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-November/msg00078.html Not much discussion there ... either I hit all points, or no one cared much. > So lets start from there. > * How do we break down everything we need between the wiki and CVS? > We can do calendars using whatever calendar software the user > prefers and iCal files. > We can continue to track tasks on the wiki, but is that process > working well enough for everyone? Do we need an alternative? Would > calendars with to-do lists work better? Very, very, very lightweight calendar, please. I find that they full- featured groupware-type stuff coming through a WUI ... is, uh ... not my favorite way to do things. I'd much rather a semi-readable, hand-edited Wiki. I'd like to edit via the Web, get email reminders, and perhaps a way to schedule/interact with the system via properly formatted email messages. > We probably need static content for translation. What are the pros > and cons of using the wiki for this? CVS? Wiki with regular exports > and touch-up for CVS? We really need something we can make PO files from, if we want to keep content easily updated. These can then be checked into CVS and pulled out by the trans teams. Remember, they have existing tools, we do not. We must make our tools use their tools, from the start. We can request an odd-ball, one-off translation now and again, but not on a regular basis. > We want revision control. Both the wiki and CVS can provide this. > We want help tickets. How can we manage this using the wiki, CVS, > and Bugzilla? Not arguing, just curious ... why do we need help tickets? V. bugzilla as it standa? > If we can answer these with smiles on our faces, there's no real need > for separate CMS software. Can anyone think of other needs to add to > this list? > > If we decide we need a CMS solution, what can we do to make a PHP > solution like Drupal as secure as possible? We can disable XML-RPC. > What other features would we need to disable? Would this cripple Drupal > beyond usefulness? What about access; do we want it to be as open as > the wiki, or do we want to tighten it a little to protect it? Tighter control. This is graduated content, like code moving from Extras to Core. It gets a higher level of attention because it serves a central purpose. > We might > in particular want to address isolating Drupal (having it on a server by > itself) and trying to add protections for user information, should it be > compromised. > > Also, a point that was brought up elsewhere was CVS access to MoinMoin. > Is this something we need or want? Most of MoinMoin would have no need > for CVS access. Only the plugins and themes would really be sensible to > allow CVS access to. We might also want to consider this for any CMS > solution we choose. CVS access to check in/out XML files. > Finally, there's the domain consideration. Thus far, we've been talking > about setting up the CMS solution on fedoraproject.org. I think that if > we do choose Drupal or another CMS, we should do exactly that. What if > we use the infrastructure that is in place for fedora.redhat.com? I > think if we choose to go the CVS route that we should try to put it on > fedoraproject.org. We do still want to keep fedora.redhat.com, at least > for Red Hat's own messages about Fedora. Is this something we can do? I'm for making f.r.c a single RHAT-backed, FF-approved marketing message with five links and a pretty theme. > My personal opinion so far: I think we can make CVS, MoinMoin, and > Bugzilla work for our needs. I'd like to see CVS on fedoraproject.org. > I think that we should use the same account system to manage access to > fedoraproject.org as we use for fedora.redhat.com, to eliminate having > two sets of web admins. I'd like to move what we have at > fedora.redhat.com in CVS HEAD over to fedoraproject.org and begin > working on it. We can replace the content at fedora.redhat.com with a > very basic bit of information that relays Red Hat's message about Fedora > and explains what the exact relationship is and what Red Hat does for > Fedora. I'm with Seth in that I would like to eliminate as much PHP as > possible. We currently have a little PHP in use for fedora.redhat.com. > It is all very simple and generates static content, but I'd like to see > it eventually replaced with Python anyway. If we are going to use > Drupal, I'd like to see it as isolated as possible and configured by the > most paranoid people we can find. I don't want to rule out finding a > Python CMS solution, and would love to see everyone who can providing > reviews and insights to that end. +1 to this round-up ... until someone comes along and sways me. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Tue Dec 6 01:56:54 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 20:56:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Patrick Barnes wrote: > Well, I think we all have a pretty good idea of what standard features > of a CMS are. Instead of making that assumption, can we get those features up and listed on a web page? -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From hballal at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 03:02:07 2005 From: hballal at gmail.com (Hrishikesh Ballal) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:02:07 -0500 Subject: Fedora front page (Help Wanted) Message-ID: <1133838128.3274.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, I tried to put the following page http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-tables/ on the wiki but failed miserably!.. I used the {{{#!html and }}} tags but could not get the results. The problem is that the MoinMoin theme uses a CSS and this site uses a different CSS. I guess one could break the individual elements of the CSS and put it on the wiki along with the text. With all the talk of the "new and updated" fedora.redhat.com moving to CVS, can we transform the fedora.redhat.com website to the 'Kind of Blue' Theme also? This page can be a start and have all the static content based on this theme? I can put some time into it. I am also working with Seth to put the navigation on the wiki. Hrishi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Dec 6 03:53:43 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:53:43 -0600 Subject: Fedora front page (Help Wanted) In-Reply-To: <1133838128.3274.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1133838128.3274.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43950B47.7080907@n-man.com> Hrishikesh Ballal wrote: > All, > I tried to put the following page > http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-tables/ on the wiki but failed miserably!.. I used the {{{#!html and }}} tags but could not get the results. The problem is that the MoinMoin theme uses a CSS and this site uses a different CSS. I guess one could break the individual elements of the CSS and put it on the wiki along with the text. > With all the talk of the "new and updated" fedora.redhat.com moving to > CVS, can we transform the fedora.redhat.com website to the 'Kind of > Blue' Theme also? This page can be a start and have all the static > content based on this theme? I can put some time into it. > > I am also working with Seth to put the navigation on the wiki. > > Hrishi > > > You're welcome to use the prototype I had put together as a starting point. It isn't a 1:1 match, but it has the basic idea. Let me know if you need any specific help with it. You can catch me on IRC as nman64 in #fedora-websites (among others). http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FedoraMain The new f.r.c is already in CVS. To check it out, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/CVS I think putting together a style for it that matches 'Kind of Blue' would be great. If we get it moved over to fedoraproject.org, we can consider intermingling it with the wiki content a bit more. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Dec 6 04:30:08 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 22:30:08 -0600 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1133824690.29067.32.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> <1133824690.29067.32.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <439513D0.9000203@n-man.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 16:58 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > > Okay, I've read over all the posts that have sprung up on this thread > > today, and here's how I see it. > > > > Basically, it sounds like everyone is leaning in one of two directions: > > a.) Drupal is great except that it runs on PHP. > > b.) CVS and good, old-fashioned web skills are a great combination. > > > > Well, I think we all have a pretty good idea of what standard features > > of a CMS are. > > Here is a list of use cases that I started on f-docs-l: > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-November/msg00078.html > > Not much discussion there ... either I hit all points, or no one cared > much. > > > So lets start from there. > > * How do we break down everything we need between the wiki and CVS? > > We can do calendars using whatever calendar software the user > > prefers and iCal files. > > We can continue to track tasks on the wiki, but is that process > > working well enough for everyone? Do we need an alternative? Would > > calendars with to-do lists work better? > > Very, very, very lightweight calendar, please. I find that they full- > featured groupware-type stuff coming through a WUI ... is, uh ... not my > favorite way to do things. I'd much rather a semi-readable, hand-edited > Wiki. > > I'd like to edit via the Web, get email reminders, and perhaps a way to > schedule/interact with the system via properly formatted email messages. > Would you like fries with that? I'm not familiar with Drupal's capabilities with calendars, but I think we'd otherwise be dealing with client-side software of your choice with iCal files. The exact interface and capabilities you'd be dealing with would depend upon the tool you select. iCal files support scheduled events and to-do lists. We might be able to set this up to use WebDAV, FTP or some other two-way protocol, but otherwise would be syncing using CVS. If we choose to continue using the wiki, then we can try to create plugins to add new functionality, but I don't see any of those more advanced features appearing any time soon. > > We probably need static content for translation. What are the pros > > and cons of using the wiki for this? CVS? Wiki with regular exports > > and touch-up for CVS? > > We really need something we can make PO files from, if we want to keep > content easily updated. These can then be checked into CVS and pulled > out by the trans teams. > > Remember, they have existing tools, we do not. We must make our tools > use their tools, from the start. We can request an odd-ball, one-off > translation now and again, but not on a regular basis. > That's not a problem. Whether we use raw files or occasional exports from the wiki, we can support translation. This might be something else that would benefit from the infrastructure we've been working on for the FDP. > > We want revision control. Both the wiki and CVS can provide this. > > We want help tickets. How can we manage this using the wiki, CVS, > > and Bugzilla? > > Not arguing, just curious ... why do we need help tickets? V. bugzilla > as it standa? > The first usage case I am aware of is to handle incoming email support requests. Elliot and I were discussing this for mail directed at fedora at redhat.com. > > If we can answer these with smiles on our faces, there's no real need > > for separate CMS software. Can anyone think of other needs to add to > > this list? > > > > If we decide we need a CMS solution, what can we do to make a PHP > > solution like Drupal as secure as possible? We can disable XML-RPC. > > What other features would we need to disable? Would this cripple Drupal > > beyond usefulness? What about access; do we want it to be as open as > > the wiki, or do we want to tighten it a little to protect it? > > Tighter control. This is graduated content, like code moving from > Extras to Core. It gets a higher level of attention because it serves a > central purpose. > > > We might > > in particular want to address isolating Drupal (having it on a server by > > itself) and trying to add protections for user information, should it be > > compromised. > > > > Also, a point that was brought up elsewhere was CVS access to MoinMoin. > > Is this something we need or want? Most of MoinMoin would have no need > > for CVS access. Only the plugins and themes would really be sensible to > > allow CVS access to. We might also want to consider this for any CMS > > solution we choose. > > CVS access to check in/out XML files. > I don't see how that relates to MoinMoin's back-end. Other than the plugins and themes, there's really nothing stored by MoinMoin that is safe to manipulate directly. The data that it stores for pages is identical to what you get if you use the 'Show Raw Text' option from the 'More Actions' menu. The rest of the data is a directory hierarchy providing the page locations and revisions and data about registered users. Neither of those are things we should be playing with directly. We can write scripts to interact with MoinMoin through HTTP requests, just like the current XML checkout script for preparing the release notes. The same is likely to be true of any CMS solution. > > Finally, there's the domain consideration. Thus far, we've been talking > > about setting up the CMS solution on fedoraproject.org. I think that if > > we do choose Drupal or another CMS, we should do exactly that. What if > > we use the infrastructure that is in place for fedora.redhat.com? I > > think if we choose to go the CVS route that we should try to put it on > > fedoraproject.org. We do still want to keep fedora.redhat.com, at least > > for Red Hat's own messages about Fedora. Is this something we can do? > > I'm for making f.r.c a single RHAT-backed, FF-approved marketing message > with five links and a pretty theme. > A pretty theme that matches 'Kind of Blue' from the wiki, maybe? > > My personal opinion so far: I think we can make CVS, MoinMoin, and > > Bugzilla work for our needs. I'd like to see CVS on fedoraproject.org. > > I think that we should use the same account system to manage access to > > fedoraproject.org as we use for fedora.redhat.com, to eliminate having > > two sets of web admins. I'd like to move what we have at > > fedora.redhat.com in CVS HEAD over to fedoraproject.org and begin > > working on it. We can replace the content at fedora.redhat.com with a > > very basic bit of information that relays Red Hat's message about Fedora > > and explains what the exact relationship is and what Red Hat does for > > Fedora. I'm with Seth in that I would like to eliminate as much PHP as > > possible. We currently have a little PHP in use for fedora.redhat.com. > > It is all very simple and generates static content, but I'd like to see > > it eventually replaced with Python anyway. If we are going to use > > Drupal, I'd like to see it as isolated as possible and configured by the > > most paranoid people we can find. I don't want to rule out finding a > > Python CMS solution, and would love to see everyone who can providing > > reviews and insights to that end. > > +1 to this round-up ... until someone comes along and sways me. :) > > - Karsten > -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hballal at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 11:54:28 2005 From: hballal at gmail.com (Hrishikesh Ballal) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 06:54:28 -0500 Subject: Fedora front page (Help Wanted) In-Reply-To: <20051206043007.6599872F08@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20051206043007.6599872F08@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1133870068.2716.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello Patrick, I already tried to work with the prototype and could not get it to be close to the mockup. The prototype is close I dont think it is close enough. I support having a wiki-less front page. I think eventually this is what we are aiming at. If all of fedora.redhat.com content is going to move to fedoraproject.org there will be a mix of static and wiki/dynamic content. We can start the process by making the this as the first static page in fedoraproject.org and maybe put it in fedoraproject.org CVS. I know there is no CVS on fedoraproject.org right now but once its setup, this can be the first page in it. Slowly, we can move the other pages into the CVS. I dont know if I am making sense but I will catch you on IRC sometime. Hrishi > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:53:43 -0600 > From: Patrick Barnes > Subject: Re: Fedora front page (Help Wanted) > To: "For maintainers and developers of all formal Fedora websites." > > Message-ID: <43950B47.7080907 at n-man.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hrishikesh Ballal wrote: > > All, > > I tried to put the following page > > http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-tables/ on the wiki but failed miserably!.. I used the {{{#!html and }}} tags but could not get the results. The problem is that the MoinMoin theme uses a CSS and this site uses a different CSS. I guess one could break the individual elements of the CSS and put it on the wiki along with the text. > > With all the talk of the "new and updated" fedora.redhat.com moving to > > CVS, can we transform the fedora.redhat.com website to the 'Kind of > > Blue' Theme also? This page can be a start and have all the static > > content based on this theme? I can put some time into it. > > > > I am also working with Seth to put the navigation on the wiki. > > > > Hrishi > > > > > > > You're welcome to use the prototype I had put together as a starting > point. It isn't a 1:1 match, but it has the basic idea. Let me know if > you need any specific help with it. You can catch me on IRC as nman64 > in #fedora-websites (among others). > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FedoraMain > > The new f.r.c is already in CVS. To check it out, see > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/CVS > > I think putting together a style for it that matches 'Kind of Blue' > would be great. If we get it moved over to fedoraproject.org, we can > consider intermingling it with the wiki content a bit more. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > www.n-man.com > -- > Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 189 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/attachments/20051205/2573a70d/signature.bin > > ------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gdk at redhat.com Tue Dec 6 14:33:59 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 09:33:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> Message-ID: Can I have this whole email in "bullet points where Patrick tells us what to do"? :) --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Patrick Barnes wrote: > Okay, I've read over all the posts that have sprung up on this thread > today, and here's how I see it. > > Basically, it sounds like everyone is leaning in one of two directions: > a.) Drupal is great except that it runs on PHP. > b.) CVS and good, old-fashioned web skills are a great combination. > > Well, I think we all have a pretty good idea of what standard features > of a CMS are. So lets start from there. > * How do we break down everything we need between the wiki and CVS? > We can do calendars using whatever calendar software the user > prefers and iCal files. > We can continue to track tasks on the wiki, but is that process > working well enough for everyone? Do we need an alternative? Would > calendars with to-do lists work better? > We probably need static content for translation. What are the pros > and cons of using the wiki for this? CVS? Wiki with regular exports > and touch-up for CVS? > We want revision control. Both the wiki and CVS can provide this. > We want help tickets. How can we manage this using the wiki, CVS, > and Bugzilla? > If we can answer these with smiles on our faces, there's no real need > for separate CMS software. Can anyone think of other needs to add to > this list? > > If we decide we need a CMS solution, what can we do to make a PHP > solution like Drupal as secure as possible? We can disable XML-RPC. > What other features would we need to disable? Would this cripple Drupal > beyond usefulness? What about access; do we want it to be as open as > the wiki, or do we want to tighten it a little to protect it? We might > in particular want to address isolating Drupal (having it on a server by > itself) and trying to add protections for user information, should it be > compromised. > > Also, a point that was brought up elsewhere was CVS access to MoinMoin. > Is this something we need or want? Most of MoinMoin would have no need > for CVS access. Only the plugins and themes would really be sensible to > allow CVS access to. We might also want to consider this for any CMS > solution we choose. > > Finally, there's the domain consideration. Thus far, we've been talking > about setting up the CMS solution on fedoraproject.org. I think that if > we do choose Drupal or another CMS, we should do exactly that. What if > we use the infrastructure that is in place for fedora.redhat.com? I > think if we choose to go the CVS route that we should try to put it on > fedoraproject.org. We do still want to keep fedora.redhat.com, at least > for Red Hat's own messages about Fedora. Is this something we can do? > > My personal opinion so far: I think we can make CVS, MoinMoin, and > Bugzilla work for our needs. I'd like to see CVS on fedoraproject.org. > I think that we should use the same account system to manage access to > fedoraproject.org as we use for fedora.redhat.com, to eliminate having > two sets of web admins. I'd like to move what we have at > fedora.redhat.com in CVS HEAD over to fedoraproject.org and begin > working on it. We can replace the content at fedora.redhat.com with a > very basic bit of information that relays Red Hat's message about Fedora > and explains what the exact relationship is and what Red Hat does for > Fedora. I'm with Seth in that I would like to eliminate as much PHP as > possible. We currently have a little PHP in use for fedora.redhat.com. > It is all very simple and generates static content, but I'd like to see > it eventually replaced with Python anyway. If we are going to use > Drupal, I'd like to see it as isolated as possible and configured by the > most paranoid people we can find. I don't want to rule out finding a > Python CMS solution, and would love to see everyone who can providing > reviews and insights to that end. > > Thoughts? > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > www.n-man.com > -- > Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ > > > From gdk at redhat.com Tue Dec 6 14:37:14 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 09:37:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1133824690.29067.32.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> <1133824690.29067.32.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > Very, very, very lightweight calendar, please. I find that they full- > featured groupware-type stuff coming through a WUI ... is, uh ... not my > favorite way to do things. I'd much rather a semi-readable, hand-edited > Wiki. Yep. I see the calendars as simple, authoritative ics files. One for all the meetings, one for events, one for release schedule for FC. That's it. > I'd like to edit via the Web, get email reminders, and perhaps a way to > schedule/interact with the system via properly formatted email messages. > We really need something we can make PO files from, if we want to keep > content easily updated. These can then be checked into CVS and pulled > out by the trans teams. > > Remember, they have existing tools, we do not. We must make our tools > use their tools, from the start. We can request an odd-ball, one-off > translation now and again, but not on a regular basis. So, what can we make PO files from? Is the current f.r.c system in CVS good enough for this? > I'm for making f.r.c a single RHAT-backed, FF-approved marketing message > with five links and a pretty theme. +1, when we get there, and the sooner the better. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Dec 6 14:51:23 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:51:23 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133880683.11387.4.camel@cutter> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 16:58 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > Okay, I've read over all the posts that have sprung up on this thread > today, and here's how I see it. > > Basically, it sounds like everyone is leaning in one of two directions: > a.) Drupal is great except that it runs on PHP. I don't agree with this statement even a little bit. Drupal is amazingly complex and deep application. It goes far beyond what we've explained is our needs and that tends to mean we end up with huge portions of it that will be questionably-well audited and interfaced by us. This would be fine if it were a desktop publishing app - but it's a web-facing application and that makes it dangerous to us. > We can continue to track tasks on the wiki, but is that process > working well enough for everyone? Do we need an alternative? Would > calendars with to-do lists work better? I've never seen a user class where shared calendars help, at all. ics files are much more reliable and easier to debug. :) -sv From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 6 17:06:58 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:06:58 -0800 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <439513D0.9000203@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> <1133824690.29067.32.camel@erato.phig.org> <439513D0.9000203@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133888819.8794.20.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 22:30 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > I'd like to edit via the Web, get email reminders, and perhaps a way to > > schedule/interact with the system via properly formatted email messages. > > > Would you like fries with that? Well, since you asked, yes. :) That was just me dreaming. .ics files should work fine. > > > We want revision control. Both the wiki and CVS can provide this. > > > We want help tickets. How can we manage this using the wiki, CVS, > > > and Bugzilla? > > > > Not arguing, just curious ... why do we need help tickets? V. bugzilla > > as it standa? > > > The first usage case I am aware of is to handle incoming email support > requests. Elliot and I were discussing this for mail directed at > fedora at redhat.com. Yeah, there ya go. I've resisted making bug reports automatically from messages to e.g. relnotes at fp.o. If this went into a ticketing system, that could be cool. We use Request Tracker in several locations, I'll find out if ours is seriously hacked up from the upstream. There is a fair amount of experience with RT amongst FLOSS folks. > > CVS access to check in/out XML files. > > > I don't see how that relates to MoinMoin's back-end. Not for storing MoinMoin objects, for accessing documentation in canonical XML. I have a directive to get this working internally at Red Hat, a wiki front-end to DocBook XML. What I want to do is get the resources assigned to this to work on making the functionality MoinMoin. In a few weeks, when we are starting up that project, I'll where we can go from there. > > I'm for making f.r.c a single RHAT-backed, FF-approved marketing message > > with five links and a pretty theme. > > > A pretty theme that matches 'Kind of Blue' from the wiki, maybe? Yeah, like that. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 6 17:09:17 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:09:17 -0800 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> <1133824690.29067.32.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1133888957.8794.24.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-12-06 at 09:37 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Very, very, very lightweight calendar, please. I find that they full- > > featured groupware-type stuff coming through a WUI ... is, uh ... not my > > favorite way to do things. I'd much rather a semi-readable, hand-edited > > Wiki. > > Yep. I see the calendars as simple, authoritative ics files. One for all > the meetings, one for events, one for release schedule for FC. That's it. Fine enough. :) > > We really need something we can make PO files from, if we want to keep > > content easily updated. These can then be checked into CVS and pulled > > out by the trans teams. > > > > Remember, they have existing tools, we do not. We must make our tools > > use their tools, from the start. We can request an odd-ball, one-off > > translation now and again, but not on a regular basis. > > So, what can we make PO files from? Is the current f.r.c system in CVS > good enough for this? No. xml2po is what we use for documentation, and the stuff in CVS is far from that. That said, if we have a regular $FORMAT the files are in, we could task someone with writing or modifying a tool to create PO files from whatever. That said, it is probably better to do the site in XML, instead. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gdk at redhat.com Tue Dec 6 18:21:23 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 13:21:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1133888957.8794.24.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <4394C607.8090508@n-man.com> <1133824690.29067.32.camel@erato.phig.org> <1133888957.8794.24.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > That said, it is probably better to do the site in XML, instead. OK. Let's get started. What do we need to do? --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Dec 6 19:19:33 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:19:33 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Cron /root/fedoracvsup] Message-ID: <1133896773.11387.32.camel@cutter> -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Cron Daemon To: webmaster at fedora.redhat.com Subject: Cron /root/fedoracvsup Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:16:10 -0500 PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /var/fedorascratch/LIVE-2005-12-06-14.15/tmp/include/widgets.inc on line 85 PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /var/fedorascratch/LIVE-2005-12-06-14.15/tmp/include/widgets.inc on line 85 PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /var/fedorascratch/LIVE-2005-12-06-14.15/tmp/include/widgets.inc on line 85 please make this stop. -sv From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Tue Dec 6 19:23:15 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 14:23:15 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Cron /root/fedoracvsup] In-Reply-To: <1133896773.11387.32.camel@cutter> References: <1133896773.11387.32.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1133896995.15382.1.camel@ignacio.lan> On Tue, 2005-12-06 at 14:19 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: Cron Daemon > To: webmaster at fedora.redhat.com > Subject: Cron /root/fedoracvsup > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:16:10 -0500 > > PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /var/fedorascratch/LIVE-2005-12-06-14.15/tmp/include/widgets.inc on line 85 > PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /var/fedorascratch/LIVE-2005-12-06-14.15/tmp/include/widgets.inc on line 85 > PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /var/fedorascratch/LIVE-2005-12-06-14.15/tmp/include/widgets.inc on line 85 > > > > please make this stop. Working on it... -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hballal at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 00:48:59 2005 From: hballal at gmail.com (Hrishikesh Ballal) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:48:59 -0500 Subject: http://fedora.redhat.com broken Message-ID: <1133916540.4347.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Can someone else confirm this? The links on the navigation menu to the left are broken. Hrishi From tchung at fedoranews.org Wed Dec 7 00:52:12 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 16:52:12 -0800 Subject: http://fedora.redhat.com broken In-Reply-To: <1133916540.4347.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1133916540.4347.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051207005113.M48251@fedoranews.org> On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 19:48:59 -0500, Hrishikesh Ballal wrote > Can someone else confirm this? The links on the navigation menu to the > left are broken. > Hrishi > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list They seems OK to me. Although, I think we need more content in our new main page. http://fedora.redhat.com/ -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From tchung at fedoranews.org Wed Dec 7 01:28:25 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 17:28:25 -0800 Subject: updated fedora.redhat.com Message-ID: <20051207011639.M26019@fedoranews.org> Here are some links I noticed inconsistent fedora.redhat.com from redhat.com: http://www.redhat.com/en_us/USA/fedora/ 1. FAQ rc -> http://fedora.redhat.com/about/faq/ frc -> http://fedora.redhat.com/About/FAQ.html 2. Download rc -> http://fedora.redhat.com/download/ frc -> http://fedora.redhat.com/Download/ Download even points to http://fedora.redhat.com/ 3. Projects rc -> http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/ frc -> http://fedora.redhat.com/About/Projects/ Also as of right now (Dec 6, 5:20PM), all links on left nav are pointing to wrong pages: Download -> http://fedora.redhat.com/ News -> http://fedora.redhat.com/Download/ Documentaion -> http://fedora.redhat.com/News/ Contribute -> http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/ About -> http://fedora.redhat.com/Contribute/ -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Dec 7 02:25:47 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 20:25:47 -0600 Subject: updated fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <20051207011639.M26019@fedoranews.org> References: <20051207011639.M26019@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <4396482B.9070400@n-man.com> The downtime on fedora.redhat.com and the broken links have been the unfortunate results of troubles from our changes this morning. We've been trying to debug the site all day, and have caused as many problems as we have solved. :-) I think it is all finally sorted out. If anyone sees any additional problems on fedora.redhat.com, please let me know. The new content does introduce new locations, and so some external links might be broken. We've added some redirects for some cases, but there's sure to be broken links out there. Please let the respective webmasters know about the change so that they can update their links accordingly. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From covex at ahoj.fsik.cvut.cz Wed Dec 7 08:20:56 2005 From: covex at ahoj.fsik.cvut.cz (Adam Pribyl) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:20:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: updated fedora.redhat.com Message-ID: This page: http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/ has still old logo and the content of the left sidebar is somehow different - Doc X Documentation, Participage X Contribute, ref to Project that is not in other parts. Also the front page seems pretty empty, which is not a good sign for such a long living project, at least screenshot can make it better. Adam Pribyl From gdk at redhat.com Wed Dec 7 14:14:37 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:14:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: updated fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <4396482B.9070400@n-man.com> References: <20051207011639.M26019@fedoranews.org> <4396482B.9070400@n-man.com> Message-ID: Thanks for sorting all this out, Patrick. Nice work. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Patrick Barnes wrote: > The downtime on fedora.redhat.com and the broken links have been the > unfortunate results of troubles from our changes this morning. We've > been trying to debug the site all day, and have caused as many problems > as we have solved. :-) I think it is all finally sorted out. If > anyone sees any additional problems on fedora.redhat.com, please let me > know. > > The new content does introduce new locations, and so some external links > might be broken. We've added some redirects for some cases, but there's > sure to be broken links out there. Please let the respective webmasters > know about the change so that they can update their links accordingly. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > www.n-man.com > -- > Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ > > > From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Wed Dec 7 14:56:05 2005 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:56:05 +0100 Subject: Fedoraproject french start page Message-ID: <1133967365.3054.20.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Hello, I would like to know who is involved in the French translation of the French fedoraproject webpage ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/fr_FR/FedoraPrincipal ) ? I'm a French native speaker and translate every week the Fedora Weekly News on my blog and add it to the French fedora core related website ( http://www.fedora-france.org ). Maybe I could help. -- Thomas Canniot site : http://www.fedora-france.org blog : http://www.mrtomlinux.org From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Dec 7 16:22:19 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:22:19 -0600 Subject: Fedoraproject french start page In-Reply-To: <1133967365.3054.20.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> References: <1133967365.3054.20.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Message-ID: <43970C3B.80304@n-man.com> Thomas wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to know who is involved in the French translation of the > French fedoraproject webpage > ( http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/fr_FR/FedoraPrincipal ) ? > I'm a French native speaker and translate every week the Fedora Weekly > News on my blog and add it to the French fedora core related website > ( http://www.fedora-france.org ). Maybe I could help. > > > Thanks for your interest. Luya Tshimbalanga has done the translation so far. I'm sure your assistance would be very valuable, as the translation has barely begun. You can refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Languages for what little guidance we have put together so far. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. Nous avons besoin de toute l'aide qui nous pouvons obtenir! -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Wed Dec 7 21:07:29 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 16:07:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > > On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Elliot Lee wrote: > > > . What we've got already. The basic idea is perfectly sound, and > > everyone knows how to use CVS. This is the baseline that the new > > solution needs to improve on, so one good question is "what do we > > need that we don't have now?" > > This is the heart of the conversation. There's lots of "cool" stuff in > Drupal, but what do we *need*, really? Here's my wish list: > > 1. Calendars. We can do this with standalone ics files. > > 2. Translatability. We should be able to break content out into easy > translation strings. > > 3. Form processing. Straight CGI, eh? > > What else do we *really* need for the static / "authoritative" site? I would like: . Dynamic content on the authoritative site. For example, having upcoming events posted on the home page, and automatically removed after they have occurred. Another area where automation could save time is allowing us to have the entire web site automatically reflect the availability of a new FC release - currently there are half a dozen pages that we have to update at release time. The navigation sidebar could also be produced automatically. In other words, stuff to save us time. . On-the-web page editing - makes it easier to make changes, and allows more people to contribute. . Workflow & versioning - allow more people to contribute. Best, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 7 23:46:03 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:46:03 -0800 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133999163.8794.137.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-12-07 at 16:07 -0500, Elliot Lee wrote: > I would like: > . Dynamic content on the authoritative site. For example, > having upcoming events posted on the home page, and automatically > removed after they have occurred. Another area where automation > could save time is allowing us to have the entire web site > automatically reflect the availability of a new FC release - > currently there are half a dozen pages that we have to update at > release time. The navigation sidebar could also be produced > automatically. In other words, stuff to save us time. > > . On-the-web page editing - makes it easier to make changes, and > allows more people to contribute. > > . Workflow & versioning - allow more people to contribute. +1 Who holds the decision to Just Start Already? Or do we need more information still? More of a plan? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Wed Dec 7 23:47:53 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 18:47:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1133999163.8794.137.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133999163.8794.137.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2005-12-07 at 16:07 -0500, Elliot Lee wrote: > > > I would like: > > . Dynamic content on the authoritative site. For example, > > having upcoming events posted on the home page, and automatically > > removed after they have occurred. Another area where automation > > could save time is allowing us to have the entire web site > > automatically reflect the availability of a new FC release - > > currently there are half a dozen pages that we have to update at > > release time. The navigation sidebar could also be produced > > automatically. In other words, stuff to save us time. > > > > . On-the-web page editing - makes it easier to make changes, and > > allows more people to contribute. > > > > . Workflow & versioning - allow more people to contribute. > > +1 > > Who holds the decision to Just Start Already? We *are* just started already. :) We're (a) working towards an agreement on what's important (b) finding software packages that will give us what's important. At least, that's what I've been assuming. -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Thu Dec 8 00:05:25 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:05:25 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133999163.8794.137.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1134000325.15382.15.camel@ignacio.lan> On Wed, 2005-12-07 at 18:47 -0500, Elliot Lee wrote: > On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Who holds the decision to Just Start Already? > > We *are* just started already. :) We're (a) working towards an agreement > on what's important (b) finding software packages that will give us what's > important. > > At least, that's what I've been assuming. Sounds to me like we want everything *and* the kitchen sink. Why not put something like Zope in place and see how we go from there? -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Dec 8 03:37:47 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:37:47 -0600 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1134000325.15382.15.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133999163.8794.137.camel@erato.phig.org> <1134000325.15382.15.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <4397AA8B.8030806@n-man.com> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Wed, 2005-12-07 at 18:47 -0500, Elliot Lee wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Who holds the decision to Just Start Already? > > > > We *are* just started already. :) We're (a) working towards an agreement > > on what's important (b) finding software packages that will give us what's > > important. > > > > At least, that's what I've been assuming. > > Sounds to me like we want everything *and* the kitchen sink. Why not put > something like Zope in place and see how we go from there? > > Coincidentally, I had the opportunity to play with setting up Zope + Plone on a Core 4 system today, and was considering suggesting it. It seems to me like we could work everything in around that, one way or another. It's written in Python and available in Extras. It's very extensible, has a reasonable security track record, and can already do many of the things we're looking for. It's worth looking into, at least. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Thu Dec 8 04:46:13 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 23:46:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <4397AA8B.8030806@n-man.com> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133999163.8794.137.camel@erato.phig.org> <1134000325.15382.15.camel@ignacio.lan> <4397AA8B.8030806@n-man.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Patrick Barnes wrote: > Coincidentally, I had the opportunity to play with setting up Zope + > Plone on a Core 4 system today, and was considering suggesting it. > It seems to me like we could work everything in around that, one way or > another. It's written in Python and available in Extras. It's very > extensible, has a reasonable security track record, and can already do > many of the things we're looking for. It's worth looking into, at least. Definitely. However, you probably want to look more into Zope 3.x, rather than Zope 2.x + Plone. -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From giallu at gmail.com Thu Dec 8 10:16:51 2005 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:16:51 +0100 Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133999163.8794.137.camel@erato.phig.org> <1134000325.15382.15.camel@ignacio.lan> <4397AA8B.8030806@n-man.com> Message-ID: On 12/8/05, Elliot Lee wrote: > > Coincidentally, I had the opportunity to play with setting up Zope + > > Plone on a Core 4 system today, and was considering suggesting it. > > It seems to me like we could work everything in around that, one way or > > another. It's written in Python and available in Extras. It's very > > extensible, has a reasonable security track record, and can already do > > many of the things we're looking for. It's worth looking into, at least. > > Definitely. However, you probably want to look more into Zope 3.x, rather > than Zope 2.x + Plone. > Also based on Zope, you could have a look at this: http://www.cps-project.org/ -- Gianluca From tchung at fedoranews.org Fri Dec 9 19:27:28 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:27:28 -0800 Subject: Get Fedora Holiday Cheer Message-ID: <20051209192458.M16086@fedoranews.org> Wouldn't it be nice if we have something similar to following? http://www.graphicsguru.com/holidaycheer.php BTW, Happy Holidays! -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From thulshof at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 19:31:24 2005 From: thulshof at gmail.com (Thijs H) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 20:31:24 +0100 Subject: Get Fedora Holiday Cheer In-Reply-To: <20051209192458.M16086@fedoranews.org> References: <20051209192458.M16086@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <9590b2a80512091131k785ed8f0i7fb4caef0dbdaea3@mail.gmail.com> That would be very nice ! I should say, ask it on FedoraForum, and make a sort of contest of it. Maybe the artist can get a place in FedoraNews or something ? (sorry, I can't make graphical things...) - Thijs On 12/9/05, Thomas Chung wrote: > > Wouldn't it be nice if we have something similar to following? > > http://www.graphicsguru.com/holidaycheer.php > > BTW, Happy Holidays! > > -- > Thomas Chung > FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) > "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Mon Dec 12 21:08:18 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:08:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: CMS Decision In-Reply-To: <1134000325.15382.15.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <43910D7F.1060407@n-man.com> <1133999163.8794.137.camel@erato.phig.org> <1134000325.15382.15.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Wed, 2005-12-07 at 18:47 -0500, Elliot Lee wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Who holds the decision to Just Start Already? > > > > We *are* just started already. :) We're (a) working towards an agreement > > on what's important (b) finding software packages that will give us what's > > important. > > > > At least, that's what I've been assuming. > > Sounds to me like we want everything *and* the kitchen sink. Why not put > something like Zope in place and see how we go from there? I did set Zope3 up on my workstation, but it has a steep learning curve and I didn't get it to the point where I could form an opinion. Best, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From greg.knaddison at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 21:05:56 2005 From: greg.knaddison at gmail.com (Greg Knaddison) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:05:56 -0800 Subject: CMS Decision - answers on Drupal Message-ID: <3861c6770512141305g29a1c07bw4951e59fdb222432@mail.gmail.com> I've read (most) of the discussion on Drupal and would like to try to answer questions on it that anyone has. I can also setup or help setup a site and I'd be happy direct folks seeking answers on the system. They recently had security issues as Ignacio pointsed out and I know that's a drawback in some people's minds. It is also based on PHP instead of Python, and I know that is also a drawback. On the flip side of those issues, there is no history of security issues for a custom project because there is no history. PHP, while not Python, has benefits in the web space like "nearly everyone uses it" which means it can be easier to find help. It also has a track record of high profile use (The Onion, Deanspace/Civicspace) where security audits must play some role. Like I said, if you have unanswered questions or want help setting up a simple installation to test out features, let me know. Greg From icon at fedoraproject.org Thu Dec 15 00:56:34 2005 From: icon at fedoraproject.org (Konstantin Ryabitsev) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:56:34 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision - answers on Drupal In-Reply-To: <3861c6770512141305g29a1c07bw4951e59fdb222432@mail.gmail.com> References: <3861c6770512141305g29a1c07bw4951e59fdb222432@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1134608195.2535.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-14-12 at 13:05 -0800, Greg Knaddison wrote: > It also has a track record of high profile use (The Onion, > Deanspace/Civicspace) where security audits must play some role. I'm honestly beginning to think that people responsible for every "high profile" installation of PHP just assumed that other high profile users must have researched all these things before making a decision. I'm seriously beginning to suspect that it all just went horribly wrong in the beginning and people just continue to nod and smile in order to keep their jobs. ;) I'm not trolling, just pointing out that "high profile" does not really carry as much weight as it might seem. It's all down to political decisions, and those are rarely made based on merit. -- Konstantin Ryabitsev McGill University WSG Simon: "So, what are we doing?" Kaylee: "Oh, crime." Simon: "Crime? Good, OK... crime..." From greg.knaddison at gmail.com Thu Dec 15 02:54:35 2005 From: greg.knaddison at gmail.com (Greg Knaddison) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:54:35 -0700 Subject: CMS Decision - answers on Drupal In-Reply-To: <1134608195.2535.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3861c6770512141305g29a1c07bw4951e59fdb222432@mail.gmail.com> <1134608195.2535.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3861c6770512141854u54acb786kcaaf5b82ffb09603@mail.gmail.com> On 12/14/05, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote: > On Wed, 2005-14-12 at 13:05 -0800, Greg Knaddison wrote: > > It also has a track record of high profile use (The Onion, > > Deanspace/Civicspace) where security audits must play some role. > > I'm honestly beginning to think that people responsible for every "high > profile" installation of PHP just assumed that other high profile users > must have researched all these things before making a decision. I'm > seriously beginning to suspect that it all just went horribly wrong in > the beginning and people just continue to nod and smile in order to keep > their jobs. ;) > > I'm not trolling, just pointing out that "high profile" does not really > carry as much weight as it might seem. It's all down to political > decisions, and those are rarely made based on merit. > I can certainly agree that there are switching costs and that sometimes people end up doing something they know isn't good just because it's what they and everybody else is already doing. However, one of the main arguments against Drupal was security problems, supposedly inherent to PHP based software. My claim is that when OSS is used in high profile scenarios it gets tested thoroughly against attempted attacks. How much fun would it have been to deface DeanSpace and put his scream video up there? Defacing the onion would be a little weird because how would anyone know it wasn't just their best joke ever :) But I'm here to try to answer questions - if you have decided to use something else or decided definitively that it won't be PHP based, just let me know and I can go back to not paying attention. Greg From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Dec 15 04:40:03 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:40:03 -0500 Subject: CMS Decision - answers on Drupal In-Reply-To: <3861c6770512141854u54acb786kcaaf5b82ffb09603@mail.gmail.com> References: <3861c6770512141305g29a1c07bw4951e59fdb222432@mail.gmail.com> <1134608195.2535.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3861c6770512141854u54acb786kcaaf5b82ffb09603@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1134621603.22019.47.camel@cutter> > However, one of the main arguments against Drupal was security > problems, supposedly inherent to PHP based software. My claim is that > when OSS is used in high profile scenarios it gets tested thoroughly > against attempted attacks. To be honest the above is a not-so-terribly-well-founded assumption. Just b/c code is open doesn't mean it gets audited. It means it CAN get audited - but not that it does. I think you'll have a hard time backing up that claim with evidence. Moreover one of the other arguments against php was that as all of the rest of the tools that do just about ANYTHING in fedora are written in python that it would be easier to integrate and borrow routines if we were using the same language. We (fedora) should be encouraging a single dynamically typed and a single statically typed language. It helps keep us on message and it means the tools are less painful to install as they require fewer diverse dependencies. so there's much more to it than just security. But to be honest, I'm tired of all this shit. I'm too busy to help with it and I'm tired of hearing about it. The new box for fedoraproject.org should be racked and in place tomorrow or Friday. Once that's done I'll setup the user account system Elliot worked on, configure the backups and leave it the hell alone. I'll just go on the record as saying I think drupal and php are poor choices for this system and will cause problems for us in the long run. Y'all can figure out how to solve the problems. I'll just make sure the box keeps running and that our backups are good for WHEN the site gets defaced. -sv From sepeck at gmail.com Thu Dec 15 04:38:32 2005 From: sepeck at gmail.com (Steven Peck) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:38:32 -0800 Subject: CMS Decision Message-ID: Greetings, I was pointed to this discussion by one of the developers in the Drupal community who did not have time to follow up. While I am not about to step into your decision about which CMS to use as you need to pick one that fits your needs and mission, I have to disagree with this statement; >On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 16:58 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: >> If we decide we need a CMS solution, what can we do to make a PHP >> solution like Drupal as secure as possible? We can disable XML-RPC. >> What other features would we need to disable? Would this cripple Drupal >> beyond usefulness? > >Hell yes. > >http://secunia.com/advisories/17824/ > >-- >Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams Disabling XML-RPC does not cripple Drupal. It does not even seriously impact Drupal at all. Without it, you will not be able to use remote blogging software such as http://blogtk.sourceforge.net/. Nor will you be able to configure it to remotely pull flickr images through the blogapi. Of course, you might want this functionality, many people do which has always confused me ... The security vulnerability was discovered within the community, fixed quickly and announced by the developers. Please note that the XML-RPC vulnerability was with the library used by Drupal and many other projects. Drupal now uses a different library as a result. Additional focus has been added to help ensure that such a vulnerability is less likely to happen again. Like Greg Knaddison, I just stopped by to answer any specific questions about Drupal. I will remain subscribed for a few days, but you folks need to decide what CMS meets your needs and usage. I think Drupal would work for you, but I'm sort of biased. :) http://drupal.org/user/5195 I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion. -sp From greg.knaddison at gmail.com Thu Dec 15 05:08:31 2005 From: greg.knaddison at gmail.com (Greg Knaddison) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:08:31 -0700 Subject: CMS Decision - answers on Drupal In-Reply-To: <1134621603.22019.47.camel@cutter> References: <3861c6770512141305g29a1c07bw4951e59fdb222432@mail.gmail.com> <1134608195.2535.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3861c6770512141854u54acb786kcaaf5b82ffb09603@mail.gmail.com> <1134621603.22019.47.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <3861c6770512142108t1cf84e3ft1bb12f846a6667c3@mail.gmail.com> On 12/14/05, seth vidal wrote: > > However, one of the main arguments against Drupal was security > > problems, supposedly inherent to PHP based software. My claim is that > > when OSS is used in high profile scenarios it gets tested thoroughly > > against attempted attacks. > > To be honest the above is a not-so-terribly-well-founded assumption. > Just b/c code is open doesn't mean it gets audited. It means it CAN get > audited - but not that it does. I think you'll have a hard time backing > up that claim with evidence. Fair enough. I don't really want to get into the discussion about security/PHP/whatever. There were some questions in the thread about Drupal and I wanted to make sure that you were making a sufficiently informed decision about the tool. > > Moreover one of the other arguments against php was that as all of the > rest of the tools that do just about ANYTHING in fedora are written in > python that it would be easier to integrate and borrow routines if we > were using the same language. > > We (fedora) should be encouraging a single dynamically typed and a > single statically typed language. It helps keep us on message and it > means the tools are less painful to install as they require fewer > diverse dependencies. > Is this where the several different mentions of replacing bugzilla were rooted? That was mentioned a couple times in the thread and I didn't quite get it since RedHat seems to have a pretty big investment in Bugzilla. Is there a Python bug tracker in existence or planned? > so there's much more to it than just security. > Yes, and I think I got that. But there was also a dismissal of PHP based systems right off the bat just because they are PHP base. And I think that's unfair, especially when they were being compared to a planned major modification to Python-webapps. It's easy and almost always fallacious to say "well, the new system won't have any bugs in it because we're going to make it awesome" and it appears to me that's what you're doing. I respect the talents and minds of the various people in f-w-l, but I also doubt anyone's ability to make bug-proof code. > But to be honest, I'm tired of all this shit. I'm too busy to help with > it and I'm tired of hearing about it. > > The new box for fedoraproject.org should be racked and in place tomorrow > or Friday. Once that's done I'll setup the user account system Elliot > worked on, configure the backups and leave it the hell alone. > > I'll just go on the record as saying I think drupal and php are poor > choices for this system and will cause problems for us in the long run. > Y'all can figure out how to solve the problems. I'll just make sure the > box keeps running and that our backups are good for WHEN the site gets > defaced. > Right...ok, so any more questions on it (since I got some off-list), feel free to ping me and I'll do my best to answer or at least point you in someone else's direction. Regards, Greg From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 19 16:15:28 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:45:28 +0530 Subject: Wiki ACL's Message-ID: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> Hi I have been thinking about this but it doesnt make much sense to me to have ACL's over all wiki content in Fedora. Wiki has a large edit group now that they might still make accidental changes which we need to monitor. I am not sure spam is enough of a problem to warrant this. what we can do is have a very limited acl for all the sensitive pages and a free run on the rest to encourage more active participation. There are a few people who monitor all changes to the wiki and I can do my share too. Comments? regards Rahul From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Mon Dec 19 16:20:51 2005 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:20:51 -0500 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 21:45 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > I have been thinking about this but it doesnt make much sense to me to > have ACL's over all wiki content in Fedora. Wiki has a large edit group > now that they might still make accidental changes which we need to > monitor. I am not sure spam is enough of a problem to warrant this. what > we can do is have a very limited acl for all the sensitive pages and a > free run on the rest to encourage more active participation. There are a > few people who monitor all changes to the wiki and I can do my share too. -10 No. 'free run' is not safe and trust me, our wiki WILL be defaced by spammers and bullshit. This project is not open to all comers - we require people apply and get vetted for extras access, for doc-writing access, for everything. This should be no different. If getting EditGroup access is so much of a barrier to entry that someone will not contribute to documenting things then I doubt seriously they are going to contribute much of use, anyway. -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 19 16:30:36 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:00:36 +0530 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> seth vidal wrote: >On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 21:45 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >>Hi >> >>I have been thinking about this but it doesnt make much sense to me to >>have ACL's over all wiki content in Fedora. Wiki has a large edit group >>now that they might still make accidental changes which we need to >>monitor. I am not sure spam is enough of a problem to warrant this. what >>we can do is have a very limited acl for all the sensitive pages and a >>free run on the rest to encourage more active participation. There are a >>few people who monitor all changes to the wiki and I can do my share too. >> >> > >-10 > >No. 'free run' is not safe and trust me, our wiki WILL be defaced by >spammers and bullshit. > > Might be true but are you open to atleast giving this a try for a short duration of say 3 months considering that there are a few people who monitor changes and can revert back anything wrong? >This project is not open to all comers - we require people apply and >get vetted for extras access, for doc-writing access, for everything. > >This should be no different. > > Wiki is different in the sense that it promotes quick edits now and then which is different from the relatively large effort in getting a package into Fedora Extras or writing formal Fedora docs which happens to be one of the reasons that the docs project now accepts content through the wiki. >If getting EditGroup access is so much of a barrier to entry that >someone will not contribute to documenting things then I doubt seriously >they are going to contribute much of use, anyway. > > Let me give you a few specific examples of where I think this is useful. Users can add notes on whatever hardware works on their system to the HCL list or add comments on different specifications. Their contributions may not be large but over time this can be significant. regards Rahul From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Mon Dec 19 16:37:58 2005 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:37:58 -0500 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1135010278.28643.19.camel@cutter> > >If getting EditGroup access is so much of a barrier to entry that > >someone will not contribute to documenting things then I doubt seriously > >they are going to contribute much of use, anyway. > > > > > Let me give you a few specific examples of where I think this is > useful. Users can add notes on whatever hardware works on their system > to the HCL list or add comments on different specifications. Their > contributions may not be large but over time this can be significant. Then we should do it the OTHER way. - allow certain pages or SubPages path to be written to by any-old-person and keep the rest of the site restricted. Deny ALL, Allow some. -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 19 16:38:51 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:08:51 +0530 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <1135010278.28643.19.camel@cutter> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> <1135010278.28643.19.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <43A6E21B.2030904@redhat.com> Hi >Then we should do it the OTHER way. - allow certain pages or SubPages >path to be written to by any-old-person and keep the rest of the site >restricted. > > >Deny ALL, Allow some. > > which is a acceptable compromise for now. I will look into that. regards Rahul From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Mon Dec 19 16:43:25 2005 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:43:25 -0500 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A6E21B.2030904@redhat.com> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> <1135010278.28643.19.camel@cutter> <43A6E21B.2030904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1135010606.28643.23.camel@cutter> On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 22:08 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >Then we should do it the OTHER way. - allow certain pages or SubPages > >path to be written to by any-old-person and keep the rest of the site > >restricted. > > > > > >Deny ALL, Allow some. > > > > > which is a acceptable compromise for now. I will look into that. > Am I the only person here who has had ANY security training at all? There are a lot of people out there who wish to do harm to anything they can - or at the very least send us crap about viagra and cialis. We need to stop being naive and act accordingly. -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Dec 19 16:44:30 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:14:30 +0530 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <1135010606.28643.23.camel@cutter> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> <1135010278.28643.19.camel@cutter> <43A6E21B.2030904@redhat.com> <1135010606.28643.23.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <43A6E36E.8070607@redhat.com> Hi >Am I the only person here who has had ANY security training at all? > >There are a lot of people out there who wish to do harm to anything they >can - or at the very least send us crap about viagra and cialis. > >We need to stop being naive and act accordingly. > If someone happens to deface or spam a few non central wiki pages, how does that affect security? regards Rahul From skvidal at linux.duke.edu Mon Dec 19 16:54:36 2005 From: skvidal at linux.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:54:36 -0500 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A6E36E.8070607@redhat.com> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> <1135010278.28643.19.camel@cutter> <43A6E21B.2030904@redhat.com> <1135010606.28643.23.camel@cutter> <43A6E36E.8070607@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1135011276.28643.26.camel@cutter> On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 22:14 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >Am I the only person here who has had ANY security training at all? > > > >There are a lot of people out there who wish to do harm to anything they > >can - or at the very least send us crap about viagra and cialis. > > > >We need to stop being naive and act accordingly. > > > If someone happens to deface or spam a few non central wiki pages, how > does that affect security? That depends. If they deface it with kiddie porn it means we immediately go offline as our servers are confiscated by the federal authorities pending an investigation. I'd say that's a pretty serious Denial-of-service vulnerability. If the service provided by the wiki is providing valid and trustworthy information than any thing that maliciously degrades that is a Denial-of-service attack. That's a security vulnerability. -sv From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Dec 19 17:06:26 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:06:26 -0600 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <43A6E892.6080502@n-man.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > I have been thinking about this but it doesnt make much sense to me to > have ACL's over all wiki content in Fedora. Wiki has a large edit > group now that they might still make accidental changes which we need > to monitor. I am not sure spam is enough of a problem to warrant this. > what we can do is have a very limited acl for all the sensitive pages > and a free run on the rest to encourage more active participation. > There are a few people who monitor all changes to the wiki and I can > do my share too. > > Comments? > > regards > Rahul > I don't see a need to reduce the access limitations. The system we have now works well, and requiring registration give us a point of contact for every wiki contributor. They must be able to contact us, and us contact them, before they are able to make changes and contribute. I think this is extremely valuable. The fact that they have to make human contact also ensures that no bots can register and muck things up. Since there is nothing wrong with the current system, I also don't see why we would want to open up significant portions of the site to defacement. It wouldn't take much for the site to be horribly mangled by a bot if it is so open. The method we have now is quite open, someone only needs to make contact before they are allowed to make changes. If anything, I would suggest we further tighten restrictions on key pages. There are certain sections of the site I could agree to opening up further, but I would still want to require registration. This was our idea with the drafts section for the FDP. It's standard security practice: you start with no access and allow only what is needed. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From icon at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 19 17:36:55 2005 From: icon at fedoraproject.org (Konstantin Ryabitsev) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:36:55 -0500 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A6E36E.8070607@redhat.com> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> <1135010278.28643.19.camel@cutter> <43A6E21B.2030904@redhat.com> <1135010606.28643.23.camel@cutter> <43A6E36E.8070607@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1135013815.9435.33.camel@rakta.wsg.mcgill.ca> On Mon, 2005-19-12 at 22:14 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >Am I the only person here who has had ANY security training at all? > > > >There are a lot of people out there who wish to do harm to anything they > >can - or at the very least send us crap about viagra and cialis. > > > >We need to stop being naive and act accordingly. > > > If someone happens to deface or spam a few non central wiki pages, how > does that affect security? * Any system that is world-writable is implicitly less secure than a system that isn't. * Generally, you have to have the visibility and dedication of a project the size of the Wikipedia to achieve the level where noise to contribution ratio reaches sensible levels. I've seen a number of open-source projects where wikis were completely unusable due to spam and defacements. * Nobody perusing a project like Wikipedia is going to use it for something other than for the purposes of trivia and personal curiosity -- your doctor is not going to print out the article on Gall_bladder before your surgery appointment. On the other hand, Fedora's wiki /must/ be a repository of documents that are reliable enough for a panicking sysadmin to refer to in the case of time-pressing system failure. When your system doesn't boot, you don't want to have to worry if the advice proffered on the documentation site was put there by a bored joker, or whether "cat /dev/zero > /dev/hda" is really going to fix your bootloader issues (professional driver on a closed course, don't try this at home, etc, etc). * Lastly, is there a problem in the first place? Or are we just idly mulling over potential benefits of an all-open system vs. selective system? Is the current solution not working? Regards, -- Konstantin Ryabitsev McGill University WSG Mal: (to Simon) "If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed." From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Dec 19 19:13:34 2005 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:13:34 -0600 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A6E892.6080502@n-man.com> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <43A6E892.6080502@n-man.com> Message-ID: <43A7065E.6080809@adelphia.net> Patrick Barnes wrote: > >The method we have now is quite open, >someone only needs to make contact before they are allowed to make >changes. > Thats strange. I remember having a 3 hour argument just to get the fedora-livecd-list added to teh list of mailing lists. I didn't even *want* EditGroup access, I was told I had that access, then I was told I didn't. Very unprofessional. Either way it was added, by a member of the wiki already. Which is great, thanks. I personally haven't recieved any info on being put in any EditGroup, and I registered a long time ago. I just thought I would make a comment since this message makes it sound like it is a mundane operation to get into the EditGroup. Hell, if you are an outsider you'll be lucky if you can even get something put on the wiki with a *request* only.. much less be put in an EditGroup by "only needs to make contact before they are allowed to make changes". Ha! What a joke. From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Dec 19 19:47:45 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:47:45 -0600 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A7065E.6080809@adelphia.net> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <43A6E892.6080502@n-man.com> <43A7065E.6080809@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <43A70E61.8010004@n-man.com> J. Hartline wrote: > Patrick Barnes wrote: > >> >> The method we have now is quite open, >> someone only needs to make contact before they are allowed to make >> changes. > Thats strange. > I remember having a 3 hour argument just to get the fedora-livecd-list > added to teh list of mailing lists. > I didn't even *want* EditGroup access, I was told I had that access, > then I was told I didn't. > > Very unprofessional. > > Either way it was added, by a member of the wiki already. Which is > great, thanks. > I personally haven't recieved any info on being put in any EditGroup, > and I registered a long time ago. > > I just thought I would make a comment since this message makes it > sound like it is a mundane operation to get into the EditGroup. > Hell, if you are an outsider you'll be lucky if you can even get > something put on the wiki with a *request* only.. > much less be put in an EditGroup by "only needs to make contact before > they are allowed to make changes". > Ha! What a joke. > I'm sorry you faced such confusion. We /have/ been working to make it easier for people to get in touch with others who can quickly add them to the EditGroup. At current, the WikiEditing page suggests talking to whoever may have referred you to edit the wiki. It suggests that if you were not referred, you visit the #fedora-websites channel on freenode, which is now usually well-staffed. Feedback on the process would certainly help us improve it, but that doesn't mean we need to reduce our security measures. If you would still like EditGroup access, I'd be happy to add you. Is your wiki name JasperHartline? -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Mon Dec 19 20:04:14 2005 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (J. Hartline) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:04:14 -0600 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A70E61.8010004@n-man.com> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <43A6E892.6080502@n-man.com> <43A7065E.6080809@adelphia.net> <43A70E61.8010004@n-man.com> Message-ID: <43A7123E.9010004@adelphia.net> Patrick Barnes wrote: >If you would still like EditGroup access, I'd be happy to add you. Is >your wiki name JasperHartline? > > > Yes, that is in fact my Fedora Project's Wiki name. I would absolutely enjoy being added to the EditGroup. Thanks. J. Hartline From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Dec 19 20:11:13 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:11:13 -0600 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <43A7123E.9010004@adelphia.net> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <43A6E892.6080502@n-man.com> <43A7065E.6080809@adelphia.net> <43A70E61.8010004@n-man.com> <43A7123E.9010004@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <43A713E1.1080000@n-man.com> J. Hartline wrote: > Patrick Barnes wrote: > >> If you would still like EditGroup access, I'd be happy to add you. Is >> your wiki name JasperHartline? >> >> >> > Yes, that is in fact my Fedora Project's Wiki name. > I would absolutely enjoy being added to the EditGroup. > Thanks. > J. Hartline > Done! Enjoy! :-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 20 19:50:13 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:50:13 -0800 Subject: Wiki ACL's In-Reply-To: <1135013815.9435.33.camel@rakta.wsg.mcgill.ca> References: <43A6DCA0.6080302@redhat.com> <1135009251.28643.12.camel@cutter> <43A6E02C.5050008@redhat.com> <1135010278.28643.19.camel@cutter> <43A6E21B.2030904@redhat.com> <1135010606.28643.23.camel@cutter> <43A6E36E.8070607@redhat.com> <1135013815.9435.33.camel@rakta.wsg.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: <1135108213.30772.177.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 12:36 -0500, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote: > * Lastly, is there a problem in the first place? Or are we just > idly mulling over potential benefits of an all-open system vs. > selective system? Is the current solution not working? The only problem, I think, is that people don't know they are not allowed to edit until they try, then they can't figure out what is going wrong. I just had a user to whom it was not obvious what to do to get edit access. This was because the page he read said, "To be on the Ambassadors page, edit it and add yourself." The content didn't tell him how to gain edit access, or even that it was needed. It's hard, because there are myriad locations that tell people to edit the page, and it's a darn hassle to make each of those locations tell people _how_ to get edit access. Ideas: 1. wiki/HowToGetEditAccess is created and #included in any number of locations; using it becomes a process that people have to remember. 2. When a person is not logged in _or_ has an account without EditGroup privileges, one of these things occur: - Their WUI is different and has big red letters "WIKI IS READ-ONLY, to gain edit permissions ..." - When they get a perm denial, they are explicitly directed to HowToGetEditAccess FWIW, I don't think we should open up the whole Wiki. We are doing our job to be open, and some minimal hurdles are not unreasonable. Also FWIW, Docs/Beats has -no- ACLs to encourage content additions. AFAICT, no one has taken advantage of that in the four months it has been implemented (which more than covers Rahul's three month request). Docs/ and Docs/Drafts require DocWritersGroup to write and DocEditorsGroup to edit/change. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Dec 24 04:31:06 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 22:31:06 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fedora community (Was: Revised Fedora Core website - Where are the links?)] Message-ID: <43ACCF0A.3080306@n-man.com> Websites Team, There's been a thread going on in fedora-list regarding our transition to fedoraproject.org. It brings up an excellent point. Except among ourselves, we have done a poor job of advertising what we are doing to the rest of the community. Although more and more resources are becoming available on fedoraproject.org, and more links are pointing to it, we haven't done much to tell people that we are now focusing on fedoraproject.org. With our recent revamp of fedora.redhat.com, we removed a great deal of content and left little more than a basic set of pages in place, but we didn't directly tell users where the information had gone. Many of the links there do now point to fedoraproject.org, but there's no explicit declaration of what is happening. I'd love to hear suggestions about how we can best remedy this oversight. I also know that a lot of people have asked why we don't have more content on the front page of fedora.redhat.com. I've been trying to find a reasonable way to publish news there that is synchronized with the news from fedoraproject.org. Beyond that, I'd love to hear suggestions for other valuable content that could go on the front page. Karsten, Greg and I haven't really heard a whole lot of feedback on the new fedora.redhat.com, so if each of you would take a few minutes to browse the site and return to the list with your insight, that would be great. Even if we are going to finish moving content away from fedora.redhat.com, we need to come up with key content to remain there, and the main content will likely be moved to fedoraproject.org (which we will need to advertise better). Whatever CMS (or non-CMS) solution we choose, we need to maintain our static content, and we need to tell our userbase what we are doing. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Kam Leo Subject: Re: Fedora community (Was: Revised Fedora Core website - Where are the links?) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:33:41 -0800 Size: 9817 URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tchung at fedora.redhat.com Sat Dec 24 04:51:29 2005 From: tchung at fedora.redhat.com (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:51:29 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fedora community (Was: Revised Fedora Core website - Where are the links?)] In-Reply-To: <43ACCF0A.3080306@n-man.com> References: <43ACCF0A.3080306@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20051224044518.M21472@fedora.redhat.com> On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 22:31:06 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote > Websites Team, > > There's been a thread going on in fedora-list regarding our transition > to fedoraproject.org. It brings up an excellent point. Except among > ourselves, we have done a poor job of advertising what we are doing to > the rest of the community. Although more and more resources are > becoming available on fedoraproject.org, and more links are pointing to > it, we haven't done much to tell people that we are now focusing on > fedoraproject.org. With our recent revamp of fedora.redhat.com, we > removed a great deal of content and left little more than a basic set of > pages in place, but we didn't directly tell users where the information > had gone. Many of the links there do now point to fedoraproject.org, > but there's no explicit declaration of what is happening. I'd love to > hear suggestions about how we can best remedy this oversight. > > I also know that a lot of people have asked why we don't have more > content on the front page of fedora.redhat.com. I've been trying to > find a reasonable way to publish news there that is synchronized with > the news from fedoraproject.org. Beyond that, I'd love to hear > suggestions for other valuable content that could go on the front page. > Karsten, Greg and I haven't really heard a whole lot of feedback on the > new fedora.redhat.com, so if each of you would take a few minutes to > browse the site and return to the list with your insight, that would be > great. > > Even if we are going to finish moving content away from > fedora.redhat.com, we need to come up with key content to remain there, > and the main content will likely be moved to fedoraproject.org (which we > will need to advertise better). Whatever CMS (or non-CMS) solution we > choose, we need to maintain our static content, and we need to tell our > userbase what we are doing. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > http://www.n-man.com/ > -- > Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ Here is my feedback. Now that we have an official approval from Greg to use new fedora logo, let's actively put it in use. As a start, I would like to see "Fedora Logo Design" image right on the main page. Then, we could point to following useful sites: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ Merry Christmas and Happy *Fedora* New Year! :) -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Dec 24 06:27:46 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:27:46 -0600 Subject: Time to plan the first meeting Message-ID: <43ACEA62.1030806@n-man.com> I'd like to get started on planning our first meeting. I need opinions and suggestions from all of you. First, the meeting time. I'd like to shoot for the second week of January. At present, we already have Fedora meetings on Tuesday and Thursday. I'd kind of like to plan our meeting time in close proximity to the existing meetings, but I'm open to alternative suggestions. Second, the meeting agenda. We have a page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Schedule to track our agenda, but there isn't much there right now. I know that some of you have ideas that could be added. You can either send your suggestions on list or add them to that page on your own. Third, I'd like to know if any of you have any questions or problems that might affect your ability to contribute. I'd like to make sure that everyone is properly equipped to take on the tasks they choose, and I think having everyone on the same page before the meeting will allow us to get right to work after the meeting. Remember, though, that you don't have to wait until after the meeting to start working. There's a lot we already know needs to be done. For those of you who have been following our CMS discussions, we now have a new page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/CMS to track our efforts. All constructive additions and suggestions are welcome. We can also use accurate reviews of the posted solutions and others that you might think are valuable. I look forward to hearing from you! -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From tchung at fedora.redhat.com Sat Dec 24 08:34:28 2005 From: tchung at fedora.redhat.com (Thomas Chung) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:34:28 -0800 Subject: Time to plan the first meeting In-Reply-To: <43ACEA62.1030806@n-man.com> References: <43ACEA62.1030806@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20051224081836.M14876@fedora.redhat.com> On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 00:27:46 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote > I'd like to get started on planning our first meeting. I need opinions > and suggestions from all of you. > > First, the meeting time. I'd like to shoot for the second week of > January. At present, we already have Fedora meetings on Tuesday and > Thursday. I'd kind of like to plan our meeting time in close proximity > to the existing meetings, but I'm open to alternative suggestions. Yes, we should definitely have our own meeting. A decision needs to be made to go forward. Please note I'll be on vacation from 12/25/05 until 1/15/06 and I really want to attend our first meeting. :) I would very much appreciated if we could schedule it after 1/17/06. (I believe Jan 17th is a holiday in US) Also, we need to decide how often want this meeting. Do we want a weekly meeting? A bi-weekly meeting? Or a monthly meeting? Please note many of our members in WebGroup are already on IRC channel (#fedora-websites) on regular basis. Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Dec 25 18:15:00 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:45:00 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fedora community (Was: Revised Fedora Core website - Where are the links?)] In-Reply-To: <43ACCF0A.3080306@n-man.com> References: <43ACCF0A.3080306@n-man.com> Message-ID: <43AEE1A4.8030205@redhat.com> Patrick Barnes wrote: >Websites Team, > >There's been a thread going on in fedora-list regarding our transition >to fedoraproject.org. It brings up an excellent point. Except among >ourselves, we have done a poor job of advertising what we are doing to >the rest of the community. Although more and more resources are >becoming available on fedoraproject.org, and more links are pointing to >it, we haven't done much to tell people that we are now focusing on >fedoraproject.org. With our recent revamp of fedora.redhat.com, we >removed a great deal of content and left little more than a basic set of >pages in place, but we didn't directly tell users where the information >had gone. Many of the links there do now point to fedoraproject.org, >but there's no explicit declaration of what is happening. I'd love to >hear suggestions about how we can best remedy this oversight. > The immediate thing to do is to add a highlighted note to the frontpage of http://fedora.redhat.com . It can read as " We are currently in the process of evaluating a transition of this website into http://fedoraproject.org. http://fedoraproject.org is a community website thats being revamped and more content is being actively added to it on a regular basis. Users are recommended to visit this website for other regular updates. Discussions about a new content management system to host our updated infrastructure among other details is in progress in fedora-websites-list [link] and #fedora-websites freenode IRC channel [link]. If you are interested in taking part in these discussions take a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites, subscribe and post to the fedora-websites mailing list{link]. Thank you for your interest in the Fedora Project " I suppose this accurately reflects our position now. Other than that there has been a few missing links and some content that could be added or modified. I will provide a list or file bugs appropriately -- Rahul Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Dec 25 18:56:02 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:26:02 +0530 Subject: Page hit counter? Message-ID: <43AEEB42.5030901@redhat.com> Hi I was wondering if the page hits information is available on the wiki pages and it seems there is a provision for this feature which is not enabled somehow. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ?action=info Anyone want to take a look at this? -- Rahul Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Dec 29 00:38:03 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:08:03 +0530 Subject: Fedora Art gallery Message-ID: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> Hi A few ages back there was a discussion on setting up a gallery for Fedora based on community or fan artwork. http://pygallery.sourceforge.net/ was suggested as one of the Python based solutions. Not sure if there are others we can take a look. It would be good to provide a place for the community to submit, rate etc at http://art.fedoraproject.org. It can provide custom designed and branded wallpapers, themes, sound themes, GDM/KDM login screen themes, Icons and so on. -- Rahul Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 02:52:32 2005 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:52:32 -0600 Subject: Willing to help . . . Message-ID: <16de708d0512291852v4a1352b1kf6c58aef82e9fe84@mail.gmail.com> I see you guys need more hands on deck with the website development. What tasks might I assist with? -- As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dfong at redhat.com Fri Dec 30 03:31:24 2005 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:31:24 -0500 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> Message-ID: I have been trying to get one started for some time now. Alas, I do not possess the skills needed to get one up and running. However, I have talked with Thos...the maintainer of art.gnome.org...and he said he would try and help whomever decides to take on this task. I think it would be great to have a place where graphical contributions from the community can reside and be viewed/downloaded/ranked/discussed. It would be awesome if someone with more technical know-how would like to take on this task. I'd like to help with the organization and layout of the gallery. Diana On Dec 28, 2005, at 7:38 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > A few ages back there was a discussion on setting up a gallery for > Fedora based on community or fan artwork. > http://pygallery.sourceforge.net/ was suggested as one of the Python > based solutions. Not sure if there are others we can take a look. It > would be good to provide a place for the community to submit, rate etc > at http://art.fedoraproject.org. It can provide custom designed and > branded wallpapers, themes, sound themes, GDM/KDM login screen themes, > Icons and so on. > > > -- > Rahul > Learn. Network. Experience open source. > Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 > Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list From nman64 at n-man.com Fri Dec 30 03:39:18 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:39:18 -0600 Subject: Willing to help . . . In-Reply-To: <16de708d0512291852v4a1352b1kf6c58aef82e9fe84@mail.gmail.com> References: <16de708d0512291852v4a1352b1kf6c58aef82e9fe84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43B4ABE6.1020103@n-man.com> Arthur Pemberton wrote: > I see you guys need more hands on deck with the website development. > What tasks might I assist with? > > -- > As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins. Have you taken a look over http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites ? That will give you some pointers on getting started. Our agenda can also be found there. Just let us know what you'd like to help with, or suggest a new project to work on. :-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com http://www.n-man.com/ -- Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 07:03:07 2005 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 01:03:07 -0600 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> On 12/29/05, Diana Fong wrote: > > I have been trying to get one started for some time now. Alas, I do > not possess the skills needed to get one up and running. However, I > have talked with Thos...the maintainer of art.gnome.org...and he said > he would try and help whomever decides to take on this task. > > I think it would be great to have a place where graphical contributions > from the community can reside and be > viewed/downloaded/ranked/discussed. It would be awesome if someone > with more technical know-how would like to take on this task. I'd like > to help with the organization and layout of the gallery. > > Diana I have looked at art.gnome.org and while I very much appreciate the concept I find the http://kde-look.org/ | http://www.gnome-look.org/ executes the idea much better. Or simply put, navigating those websites seems easier. Of course this is subjective. I am willing to take on the task, as long as I don't have to implement the system from scratch. -- As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Dec 30 07:06:47 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:36:47 +0530 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> Hi > > I have looked at art.gnome.org and while I > very much appreciate the concept I find the http://kde-look.org/ | > http://www.gnome-look.org/ executes the idea much better. Or simply > put, navigating those websites seems easier. Of course this is subjective. > > I am willing to take on the task, as long as I don't have to implement > the system from scratch. You dont have to implement it from scratch. We have settled up on python as the preferred language in fedoraproject.org. So any of the python based solutions that we can use or modify to suit our needs is fine. What we need is a centralized place for the community to submit artwork, rate them and perhaps include some of the best ones into Fedora Core itself. -- Rahul Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 07:55:54 2005 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 01:55:54 -0600 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> On 12/30/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > > I have looked at art.gnome.org and while I > > very much appreciate the concept I find the http://kde-look.org/ | > > http://www.gnome-look.org/ executes the idea much better. Or simply > > put, navigating those websites seems easier. Of course this is > subjective. > > > > I am willing to take on the task, as long as I don't have to implement > > the system from scratch. > > You dont have to implement it from scratch. We have settled up on python > as the preferred language in fedoraproject.org. So any of the python > based solutions that we can use or modify to suit our needs is fine. > What we need is a centralized place for the community to submit artwork, > rate them and perhaps include some of the best ones into Fedora Core > itself. > > Fair enough, one less language to concentrate on for me at this time. Point me in the right direction, and I will get started asap. -- As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Dec 30 07:59:55 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:29:55 +0530 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43B4E8FB.9090801@redhat.com> Hi > > Fair enough, one less language to concentrate on for me at this time. > Point me in the right direction, and I will get started asap. > -- One of the things to get started with that is look at the existing python based gallery solutions, set them up and evaluate it similar to what we are doing for the CMS system. So there in lies your direction. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/CMS -- Rahul Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 08:23:07 2005 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:23:07 -0600 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <43B4E8FB.9090801@redhat.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> <43B4E8FB.9090801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0512300023w79280871tece4c6ffc733ff28@mail.gmail.com> On 12/30/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > > Fair enough, one less language to concentrate on for me at this time. > > Point me in the right direction, and I will get started asap. > > -- > > One of the things to get started with that is look at the existing > python based gallery solutions, set them up and evaluate it similar to > what we are doing for the CMS system. So there in lies your direction. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/CMS > Fair enough. I will get on that. I have already check hotscripts.com, there didn't have anything of interest. -- As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Dec 30 08:26:09 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:56:09 +0530 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <16de708d0512300023w79280871tece4c6ffc733ff28@mail.gmail.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> <43B4E8FB.9090801@redhat.com> <16de708d0512300023w79280871tece4c6ffc733ff28@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43B4EF21.6020103@redhat.com> HI > > > One of the things to get started with that is look at the existing > python based gallery solutions, set them up and evaluate it similar to > what we are doing for the CMS system. So there in lies your direction. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/CMS > > > > Fair enough. I will get on that. I have already check hotscripts.com > , there didn't have anything of interest. There are others like sf.net and freshmeat.net. You can look at art.gnome.org, kde-look.org, gnome-look.org to see what they have implemented. -- Rahul Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ From pemboa at gmail.com Fri Dec 30 08:49:40 2005 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:49:40 -0600 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <43B4EF21.6020103@redhat.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> <43B4E8FB.9090801@redhat.com> <16de708d0512300023w79280871tece4c6ffc733ff28@mail.gmail.com> <43B4EF21.6020103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0512300049t3b5a8375rda6bce6868d5c63b@mail.gmail.com> On 12/30/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > There are others like sf.net and freshmeat.net. You can look at > art.gnome.org, kde-look.org, gnome-look.org to see what they have > implemented. I particularly like the kde-look | gnome-look setup, however the implementation seems to be in php. -- As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pemboa at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 06:53:30 2005 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 00:53:30 -0600 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <16de708d0512300049t3b5a8375rda6bce6868d5c63b@mail.gmail.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> <43B4E8FB.9090801@redhat.com> <16de708d0512300023w79280871tece4c6ffc733ff28@mail.gmail.com> <43B4EF21.6020103@redhat.com> <16de708d0512300049t3b5a8375rda6bce6868d5c63b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0512302253n681f03a1m571886780a270194@mail.gmail.com> Without trying to seem negative, I'd like to give my initial report on the gallery aspect. I have searched sourceforge, freshmeat and google: I have come up with no photogallery projects written in python, let alone one as versatile as needed. Currently I see there to be two solutions: 1) Bite the bullet and use an PHP implementation 2) Code implementation from scratch in Python (I can get a fellow Fedora user and LUG member to help, but can make no promises in regard to time) Please advise. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From giallu at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 13:08:54 2005 From: giallu at gmail.com (Gianluca Sforna) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:08:54 +0100 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: <16de708d0512302253n681f03a1m571886780a270194@mail.gmail.com> References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> <43B4E8FB.9090801@redhat.com> <16de708d0512300023w79280871tece4c6ffc733ff28@mail.gmail.com> <43B4EF21.6020103@redhat.com> <16de708d0512300049t3b5a8375rda6bce6868d5c63b@mail.gmail.com> <16de708d0512302253n681f03a1m571886780a270194@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 12/31/05, Arthur Pemberton wrote: > Without trying to seem negative, I'd like to give my initial report on the > gallery aspect. I have searched sourceforge, freshmeat and google: I have > come up with no photogallery projects written in python, let alone one as > versatile as needed. The point is, while there are very good python based web applications, python is much less used than php in this area. I believe you will face this problem again and again in the future if you strictly require pyhton based solutions. That said (I am _not_ against python at all), I saw in the CMS decision thread a proposal for a zope/plone solution. This has the advantage of being really flexible, and every possible extension/application you may think has alreay one or more implementations. For example, googling for "zope photo gallery" the first two results are: http://www.contentmanagementsoftware.info/zope/photo-gallery http://www.contentmanagementsoftware.info/plone/photo-gallery which may fit your bill... Cheers Gianluca From pemboa at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 20:04:36 2005 From: pemboa at gmail.com (Arthur Pemberton) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:04:36 -0600 Subject: Fedora Art gallery In-Reply-To: References: <43B32FEB.4010904@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292303j5a090ef0o8a257804f6051bc1@mail.gmail.com> <43B4DC87.7040006@redhat.com> <16de708d0512292355s420031c2v2aca7cd3eaed35db@mail.gmail.com> <43B4E8FB.9090801@redhat.com> <16de708d0512300023w79280871tece4c6ffc733ff28@mail.gmail.com> <43B4EF21.6020103@redhat.com> <16de708d0512300049t3b5a8375rda6bce6868d5c63b@mail.gmail.com> <16de708d0512302253n681f03a1m571886780a270194@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <16de708d0512311204s15a34505u73fcb2650b33a063@mail.gmail.com> On 12/31/05, Gianluca Sforna wrote: > > [snip] > For example, googling for "zope photo gallery" the first two results are: > http://www.contentmanagementsoftware.info/zope/photo-gallery > http://www.contentmanagementsoftware.info/plone/photo-gallery > > which may fit your bill... Thanks for the link. I was unaware of he zope thread as I just joined the list. Unfortunately, none of the apps from those links properly fit the bill, as things like searching, rating, etc. would certainlty be needed. The project seems is to be more along the line of kde-look.org or art.gnome.org(I am not sure of these systems have a particular name/category, please tell me if they do). I await advice from those senior to the list/project. -- As a boy I jumped through Windows, as a man I play with Penguins. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: