From jasperhartline at adelphia.net Tue Nov 8 14:10:52 2005 From: jasperhartline at adelphia.net (Jasper Hartline) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:10:52 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Fedora Community Cohesion Project Message-ID: <4370B1EC.6060705@adelphia.net> A few members of the Fedora community have put together what they call the Fedora Community Cohesion Project. This is also known as the FCCP. It deals with giving an avenue of approach to the folks that are straight out of the woodworks from any previous job or environment where Fedora Linux was not present, that and total newcomers alike. The fedora-websites-list seems like a good place to ask all the website owners that are subscribed here, what they think of an FCCP. Have a look here: http://fedorasolved.com/fccp The site right now seems to be just starting to expand a bit. A few folks from #Fedora on irc.freenode.net absolutely like the idea and so far I've seen a few people offer graphics development, and hardware. Whether this ever comes to be, is beyond me. Take a minute and review the website in it's skeletonial stage, and tell me what you think. I'd contribute content to the site, if I knew it wouldn't be a simple taking up of time. There really is no other place to submit just anything or have an anything Fedora website. A few people have already confused the FCCP website with trying to cover what the fedora-websites-list is doing. This isn't the case in my mind. The Community Cohesion Project is not just about Fedora websites, it is about the Fedora Community. Take a minute and send some critisizm back!!! - Thanks. J. Hartline From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Nov 8 15:48:27 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:48:27 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Fedora Websites Agenda Message-ID: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> First, I'd like to welcome you all to the new Fedora Websites mailing list. The purpose of this list is discussion related to the formal Fedora websites (fedoraproject.org and fedora.redhat.com) and to allow a forum for communication between the contributors and maintainers of these sites and the maintainers of third-party Fedora-related websites. To start off, we have a few items to address. Consider these the early agenda for this list and the group it represents. Additions and suggestions are welcome. 1. The List of Fedora Community Websites Scott Glaser has begun working on a list [1] of Fedora Community Websites that will be added to the Communicate page [2] of the wiki. If you have any suggestions for this list, please contact him. He will also need assistance in deciding what sorts of sites should be included. If you have any remarks to that end, he will be happy to hear them in #fedora-docs on freenode. Look for Sonar_Guy. 2. Deprecation of fedora.redhat.com Ongoing efforts have been underway to place all critical content on the fedoraproject.org wiki and to prepare the wiki to supplant the current fedora.redhat.com website as the primary site for the Project. Much of the content from f.r.c has already been duplicated on the wiki, but there are still many pieces that have yet to be moved. One of the bigger concerns is publishing the documentation produced by the Docs Project on the wiki. Another key concern is tightening security and establishing policies for key wiki pages, such as those which are highest traffic or contain legal information. 3. Technical contacts and maintainers for wiki pages The idea of marking pages on the wiki using comments to list technical contacts/maintainers for those pages has been discussed on fedora-docs-list. The idea is simple: have a maintainer assigned to each page, who is responsible for keeping that page up-to-date and generally taking care of it. For more details, please see the fedora-docs-list archives [3]. 4. Wiki translation Yuan Yijun has jumped ahead of the rest of us and begun working on a zh_CN translation of the wiki. So far, his work has not been in line with the translation ideas discussed so far. We need to decide just how we want to handle the wiki translation, including what kind of structure we want to use, policies regarding translation of sensitive materials, and what parts of the wiki should (not) be translated. Obviously, there is interest in getting this done. We have had individuals interested specifically in Japanese, Chinese, Brazilian Portuguese and French translations all try to get things moving. It's time to figure out how this is going to be done. 5. Usability improvements on the wiki There have been several good suggestions for improvements to the wiki. First, there was the idea of making a more general-purpose FrontPage to better serve visitors. Then, assorted improvements for the wiki's themes. A lot of progress has been made, lets see what else needs to be done. The latest idea, courtesy of Rahul Sundaram, is the restoration of the 'Parent' links provided by MoinMoin's default themes. These links, which allow a visitor to quickly browse to any page's parent in the hierarchy, disappeared during the creation of the kindofblue/sinorca4moin theme. On a final note, if you have not already done so, you might want to consider signing up for the 'web' group in the Fedora Account System and adding yourself to the list on the wiki [4] of people interested in working on the Fedora websites. Elliot Lee was kind enough to start that page as a first step in coordinating work on the Fedora websites. He had an excellent point, and one that is served well by this new mailing list: it is time that all the various efforts to improve Fedora on the web be coordinated so that they may move forward more efficiently. Lets do it! [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScottGlaser - See the bottom of the page [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate [3] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-October/msg00111.html [4] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hballal at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 19:28:37 2005 From: hballal at gmail.com (Hrishikesh Ballal) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 14:28:37 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <20051108170040.8B99B7377A@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20051108170040.8B99B7377A@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131478117.2999.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-11-08 at 12:00 -0500, fedora-websites-list-request at redhat.com wrote: > > 5. Usability improvements on the wiki > There have been several good suggestions for improvements to the wiki. > First, there was the idea of making a more general-purpose FrontPage > to > better serve visitors. Then, assorted improvements for the wiki's > themes. A lot of progress has been made, lets see what else needs to > be > done. The latest idea, courtesy of Rahul Sundaram, is the restoration > of the 'Parent' links provided by MoinMoin's default themes. These > links, which allow a visitor to quickly browse to any page's parent in > the hierarchy, disappeared during the creation of the > kindofblue/sinorca4moin theme. > Hello All, "Kind of Blue" the new Fedoraproject.org theme was designed by Diana (Fong) of Redhat. I think that we should consult Diana with any redesign such as the placement of the 'Parent' links. I am not sure if she is subscribed to the list but can someone check that? I am currently working with Diana to implement a generic front page. A mockup is at http://www.isity.net/temp/reformat.png . We may need to have a different CSS for the front page because I am having a hard time incorporating it in the limited functionality design functionality that wiki gives. I guess any comments on the mockup will be welcome. Since I am familiar with the website and the wiki, I can spend sometime to implement other improvements that may come up. Hrishi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 20:21:51 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 01:51:51 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <1131478117.2999.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20051108170040.8B99B7377A@hormel.redhat.com> <1131478117.2999.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <437108DF.6000206@redhat.com> Hi > Hello All, "Kind of Blue" the new Fedoraproject.org theme was designed > by Diana > (Fong) of Redhat. I think that we should consult Diana with any redesign > such as the placement of the 'Parent' links. I am not sure if she is > subscribed to the list but can someone check that? > I subscribed her to this list precisely for such discussions. > I am currently working with Diana to implement a generic front page. A > mockup is at http://www.isity.net/temp/reformat.png . We may need to > have a different CSS for the front page because I am having a hard time > incorporating it in the limited functionality design functionality that > wiki gives. > Thank you for your work. Having a wiki as frontpage but one that looks elegant is kind of hard but this mockup is a nice start . Dropping the "Get Fedora" title might be good. Patrick Barnes , can we get your patch to hide the sidebar for users not logged in, included in the wiki implementation?. More people relate "Development" to coding. Maybe that can be calling Participating or Community instead to emphasize on other forms of contributions too. If we get the sidebar hidden by default, would it be possible to arrange the links to be something other than a straight list?. Also many links that are present in the current frontpage http://fedoraproject.org seems to be missing in your mockup. Is that intentional? regards Rahul From nman64 at n-man.com Tue Nov 8 21:31:42 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 15:31:42 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <437108DF.6000206@redhat.com> References: <20051108170040.8B99B7377A@hormel.redhat.com> <1131478117.2999.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <437108DF.6000206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4371193E.8030600@n-man.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > >> Hello All, "Kind of Blue" the new Fedoraproject.org theme was >> designed by Diana >> (Fong) of Redhat. I think that we should consult Diana with any redesign >> such as the placement of the 'Parent' links. I am not sure if she is >> subscribed to the list but can someone check that? > I subscribed her to this list precisely for such discussions. > >> I am currently working with Diana to implement a generic front page. A >> mockup is at http://www.isity.net/temp/reformat.png . We may need to >> have a different CSS for the front page because I am having a hard time >> incorporating it in the limited functionality design functionality that >> wiki gives. >> > Thank you for your work. > > Having a wiki as frontpage but one that looks elegant is kind of hard > but this mockup is a nice start . Dropping the "Get Fedora" title > might be good. Overall, that mockup looks good, and does one thing that I wish we could do properly with the wiki and current theme: placing content in columns. This can be done using the wiki. In fact, that entire mockup can be done using wiki markup. The problem comes when the viewport is resized. Due to the way the pages are constructed and the style applied, reducing the viewport below a certain depth invariably breaks the page. The sidebar and page content end up mangled, as the page content leaks into the sidebar. I have been unable to come up with a solution that will work in the current implementation of the wiki. The ability to override styles and use raw HTML has been a barrier. I'm sure a few people on this list remember early experiments with the current FrontPage design. We had used side-by-side content in the "Get Fedora" section, and it broke at a little under 1024x768. > > Patrick Barnes , can we get your patch to hide the sidebar for users > not logged in, included in the wiki implementation?. More people > relate "Development" to coding. Maybe that can be calling > Participating or Community instead to emphasize on other forms of > contributions too. > > If we get the sidebar hidden by default, would it be possible to > arrange the links to be something other than a straight list?. Also > many links that are present in the current frontpage > http://fedoraproject.org seems to be missing in your mockup. Is that > intentional? I have created a new wiki page and uploaded the patch: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/MoinMoin As far as the missing links, placing the same bar that is on the current version at the top of that mockup wouldn't look bad and would provide the necessary links. I agree with changing "Development" to "Participating" or "Contributing", and I'm also concerned with the "Links" header. Those aren't user-centric links, and might be confused for such with that header. > > regards > Rahul > I love the wiki, but sometimes I hate it, too. I hope we can figure out how to make all of these things work the way we want them to. I'd really like to see this wiki provide both a wonderful example of what can be done with a wiki and a brilliant Linux distribution website. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From hballal at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 22:21:49 2005 From: hballal at gmail.com (Hrishikesh Ballal) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:21:49 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Fedora Websites Agenda Message-ID: <1131488509.7213.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> > I have created a new wiki page and uploaded the patch: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/MoinMoin I downloaded it and will try to incorporate this into the current wiki theme. Hrishi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dfong at redhat.com Tue Nov 8 22:36:43 2005 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 17:36:43 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <437108DF.6000206@redhat.com> References: <20051108170040.8B99B7377A@hormel.redhat.com> <1131478117.2999.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <437108DF.6000206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131489403.18174.16.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> The missing links...**Hrishi** I had meant to include directions to leave the current links that appears up top as it currently is. Yea...apologies for the confusion...please keep the links as is. Thanks diana > If we get the sidebar hidden by default, would it be possible to arrange > the links to be something other than a straight list?. Also many links > that are present in the current frontpage http://fedoraproject.org seems > to be missing in your mockup. Is that intentional? > > regards > Rahul From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 07:39:13 2005 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 15:39:13 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: I want to add a zh_CN dict page to wiki but it don't work In-Reply-To: <76e72f800511042139j59d85f1bs@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800511042139j59d85f1bs@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800511092339w51bff5a1q@mail.gmail.com> 2005/11/5, Yuan Yijun : > Hi, > > The dict page is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraDict/zh_CN > and I write the reference like this: [[GetVal(FedoraDict/zh_CN,Fedora)]] > but nothing appears :( > What should I do? I don't know if I'm doing anything bad, sorry~~. > I know the reason now. :( It seems there is no IncVar(), and only FedoraDict is defined as dictionary. http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/macro/IncVar -- bbbush ^_^ From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Thu Nov 10 13:06:24 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:06:24 +0900 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Yum Mirror site update request Message-ID: <437345D0.1090707@yahoo.co.jp> Hi, I am not sure if this list is suitable for this kind of request, but I am wondering if you could help to update yum mirror sites, so it will be in synch with mirror list of download page. For example, yum mirror list for Japan only lists 2 mirrors while download page list 6 mirrors. http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-4.jp http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-4 http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors.html#ASIA I also appreciate it if you could help to add update extras mirror lists. http://ftp.riken.jp/Linux/fedora/extras/ http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/Linux/Fedora/extras/ http://ftp.iij.ad.jp/pub/linux/fedora/extras/ Thank you and Best Regards, Yoshihiro From chitlesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 16:37:35 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:37:35 +0000 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> Hai there, im just follwing the moinmoin wiki http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinMoin/InstallDocs to install it on my localhost. in section : Configure Apache: the path of httpd.conf /etc/httpd/httpd.conf is incorrect for FC4 It should be /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf instead. secondly, you can also add in the troubleshoot section of setting permissions if chown -R www:www mywiki does not work then try chown -R apache mywiki regards, Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 17:12:03 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:42:03 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43737F63.2010900@redhat.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Hai there, > im just follwing the moinmoin wiki > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinMoin/InstallDocs > to install it on my localhost. You are already registered in the wiki and in the edit group. Go ahead and make the corrections. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing regards Rahul From wtogami at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 19:00:22 2005 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:00:22 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Streamline Accounts frontpage Message-ID: <437398C6.7050800@redhat.com> https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts/ I think the entire two paragraphs on top explaining Fedora Extras shouldn't be here. Technically this account system is for more than just Extras. It should instead mention various sub-projects whose accounts are managed by this system. The link to Fedora FAQ on the bottom is out of place and confuses the interface. Keep it simple and streamlined please. I want the line removed. Any objections? Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 19:14:47 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:44:47 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Streamline Accounts frontpage In-Reply-To: <437398C6.7050800@redhat.com> References: <437398C6.7050800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <43739C27.8010506@redhat.com> Warren Togami wrote: > https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts/ > > I think the entire two paragraphs on top explaining Fedora Extras > shouldn't be here. Technically this account system is for more than > just Extras. It should instead mention various sub-projects whose > accounts are managed by this system. > > The link to Fedora FAQ on the bottom is out of place and confuses the > interface. Keep it simple and streamlined please. I want the line > removed. > > Any objections? I guess the explanation about Fedora Extras was added when the accounts system was used only for this purpose. Now that information is outdated, it could be removed. Perhaps a link to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/ would be more appropriate here since it explains various relevant information about the CLA. regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 10 19:23:38 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:53:38 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Fedora Community Cohesion Project In-Reply-To: <4370B1EC.6060705@adelphia.net> References: <4370B1EC.6060705@adelphia.net> Message-ID: <43739E3A.5020904@redhat.com> Hi > A few people have already confused the FCCP website with trying to > cover what the fedora-websites-list is doing. > This isn't the case in my mind. The Community Cohesion Project is not > just about Fedora websites, it is about the Fedora Community. > Take a minute and send some critisizm back!!! - Thanks. > J. Hartline > I understand the agenda of working together in a community but thats a very broad goal.Can you or anyone else involved with the project explain to the list of tasks thats being performed or intended to be done and how people in this list can get involved with it if required and at what level. Currently what we discuss here is only information about the formal Fedora websites (ie) http:/fedora.redhat.com and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki. Other administrators of community Fedora websites can get involved and look at what we can do to enable us to work together if possible. As a reminder the formal websites only deal with information on unencumbered Free and open source software preferably those within the formal Fedora repositories (Core and Extras). regards Rahul From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Nov 10 22:14:19 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:14:19 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4373C63B.50102@n-man.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Hai there, > im just follwing the moinmoin wiki > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinMoin/InstallDocs > to install it on my localhost. > > in section : Configure Apache: > the path of httpd.conf > > /etc/httpd/httpd.conf > is incorrect for FC4 > It should be > > /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf > instead. > > secondly, you can also add in the troubleshoot section of setting > permissions > > if > chown -R www:www mywiki > does not work then try > chown -R apache mywiki > > regards, > Chitlesh GOORAH > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com The installation information and other help sections specific to MoinMoin are part of the MoinMoin distribution. Changes should be made upstream. Please see http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ and contact them about making changes or adding notes for Fedora. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From chitlesh at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 22:30:58 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 22:30:58 +0000 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make In-Reply-To: <4373C63B.50102@n-man.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> <4373C63B.50102@n-man.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511101430n3965dd21t3746e4e424948ce7@mail.gmail.com> when i try to create an account ChitleshGoorah it says : > This email already belongs to somebody else. But when i try to log in it says: Unknown user name: "ChitleshGoorah". Please enter user name and password. Should i need to delete the previous account? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Thu Nov 10 23:50:19 2005 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:50:19 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Daily news feeds Proposal In-Reply-To: <20051111002945.M38876@fedoranews.org> References: <20051110201929.M5483@openwebmail.org> <4373A861.30806@redhat.com> <20051110220822.M98834@fedoranews.org> <4373D68C.8010906@redhat.com> <20051111002945.M38876@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1131666619.16229.18.camel@cutter> On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 16:35 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:53:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote > > .. If news.fedoraproject.org is just > > going to be a redirect to fedoranews.org then it might feasible for you > > to try drupal and others but I think it would better for the formal > > sites to be within the same infrastructure. > > I've already installed it (Dupal) and trying to learn some of its new features. :) > > http://fedoranews.org/cms/ > There are several reasons why we should be converging on a single dynamically typed language and single statically typed language, as much as possible, for fedora infrastructure: 1. conservation of skills 2. consistency of message 3. component interaction Right now we have a buildsystem in python, an accounts system in python a wiki in python and all the major tools for fedora, in python, but we're testing out php-based cms? Am I the only one who thinks that seems kinda dumb? I think we should be looking at some of the python cms implementations and for custom applications looking at turbogears and friends. -sv From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Fri Nov 11 00:03:02 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:03:02 +0900 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Yum Mirror site update request Message-ID: <4373DFB6.40206@yahoo.co.jp> Hi, I am not sure if this list is suitable for this kind of request, but I am wondering if you could help to update yum mirror sites, so it will be in synch with mirror list of download page. For example, yum mirror list for Japan only lists 2 mirrors while download page list 6 mirrors. http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-4.jp http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-4 http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors.html#ASIA I also appreciate it if you could help to add update extras mirror lists. http://ftp.riken.jp/Linux/fedora/extras/ http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/Linux/Fedora/extras/ http://ftp.iij.ad.jp/pub/linux/fedora/extras/ Thank you and Best Regards, Yoshihiro From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Fri Nov 11 00:13:31 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:13:31 +0900 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Yum Mirror site update request Message-ID: <4373E22B.40303@yahoo.co.jp> Hi, I am not sure if this list is suitable for this kind of request, but I am wondering if you could help to update yum mirror sites, so it will be in synch with mirror list of download page. For example, yum mirror list for Japan only lists 2 mirrors while download page list 6 mirrors. http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-4.jp http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-4 http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors.html#ASIA I also appreciate it if you could help to add update extras mirror lists. http://ftp.riken.jp/Linux/fedora/extras/ http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/Linux/Fedora/extras/ http://ftp.iij.ad.jp/pub/linux/fedora/extras/ Thank you and Best Regards, Yoshihiro From chitlesh at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 08:42:43 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:42:43 +0000 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make In-Reply-To: <43737F63.2010900@redhat.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> <43737F63.2010900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511110042t1d89247ej7a1b13be1fed7784@mail.gmail.com> I'm able to log in as ChitleshGOORAH but without any rights to edit. but i think i can delete this account and create a another one :) if i can't then I can count on you :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chitlesh at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 10:03:42 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:03:42 +0000 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511110042t1d89247ej7a1b13be1fed7784@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> <43737F63.2010900@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0511110042t1d89247ej7a1b13be1fed7784@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511110203m436a67a9gc74232cf0869df7e@mail.gmail.com> I have disabled my ChitleshGOORAH but i can't create another ChitleshGoorah please anyone can delete ChitleshGOORAH for me so that i can create ChitleshGoorah thanks Chitlesh GOORAH On 11/11/05, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > I'm able to log in as ChitleshGOORAH but without any rights to edit. > but i think i can delete this account and create a another one :) > if i can't then I can count on you :) -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chitlesh at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 10:21:23 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:21:23 +0000 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511110203m436a67a9gc74232cf0869df7e@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> <43737F63.2010900@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0511110042t1d89247ej7a1b13be1fed7784@mail.gmail.com> <13dbfe4f0511110203m436a67a9gc74232cf0869df7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511110221i415e7f48xf82d1baef87c8ca2@mail.gmail.com> I was able to create an account ChitleshGoorah and edit my page. but i wish if someone can delete the account ChitleshGOORAH for me please :) Chitlesh GOORAH On 11/11/05, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > I have disabled my ChitleshGOORAH > but i can't create another ChitleshGoorah > please anyone can delete ChitleshGOORAH for me > so that i can create ChitleshGoorah > > thanks Chitlesh GOORAH > > On 11/11/05, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > > I'm able to log in as ChitleshGOORAH but without any rights to edit. > > but i think i can delete this account and create a another one :) > > if i can't then I can count on you :) > > > > > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 17:10:32 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:10:32 -0800 Subject: subject identifier removed Message-ID: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> I've removed the annoying [Fedora-websites-list] from the generated Subject line for this list. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chitlesh at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 17:46:06 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:46:06 +0000 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make In-Reply-To: <4373C63B.50102@n-man.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> <4373C63B.50102@n-man.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511110946x561c85cbt5b2e01e0dc4a0e74@mail.gmail.com> On 11/10/05, Patrick Barnes wrote: > > The installation information and other help sections specific to > MoinMoin are part of the MoinMoin distribution. Changes should be made > upstream. Please see http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ and contact them > about making changes or adding notes for Fedora. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > > Hello, so you mean that i should contact http://linuxwiki.org/ThomasWaldmann before making changes to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinMoin/InstallDocs ? Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Fri Nov 11 18:28:44 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:28:44 -0600 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] moinmoin correction to make In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511110946x561c85cbt5b2e01e0dc4a0e74@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511100837m7d9fb6d6n92c2b3227fd7e71@mail.gmail.com> <4373C63B.50102@n-man.com> <13dbfe4f0511110946x561c85cbt5b2e01e0dc4a0e74@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4374E2DC.1060503@n-man.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > On 11/10/05, *Patrick Barnes* > wrote: > > The installation information and other help sections specific to > MoinMoin are part of the MoinMoin distribution. Changes should be > made > upstream. Please see http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ > and contact them > about making changes or adding notes for Fedora. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > > Hello, > so you mean that i should contact http://linuxwiki.org/ThomasWaldmann > before making changes to > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MoinMoin/InstallDocs ? > > Chitlesh GOORAH > -- > http://clunixchit.blogspot.com No changes should be made to fedoraproject.org's MoinMoin master pages. Those changes should be made on the moinmaster.wikiwikiweb.de wiki, and fedoraproject.org will get those updates on subsequent upgrades to the MoinMoin engine. The MoinMoin team will have different processes from fedoraproject.org, so you need to visit their site at http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ and contact them about making those changes. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From gdk at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 19:18:03 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:18:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: subject identifier removed In-Reply-To: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: Could you replace it with a shorter [f-web-l] or something? --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > I've removed the annoying [Fedora-websites-list] from the generated > Subject line for this list. > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Red Hat SELinux Guide > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ > From tchung at fedoranews.org Fri Nov 11 20:26:36 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:26:36 -0800 Subject: subject identifier removed In-Reply-To: References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20051111202559.M3363@fedoranews.org> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:18:03 -0500 (EST), Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote > Could you replace it with a shorter [f-web-l] or something? > > --g > > _____________________ ____________________________________________ > Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have > Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the > Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the > ] [ dumb. --mcluhan +1 -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From gdk at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 19:47:44 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:47:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Interim plan for fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> Message-ID: OK, so. There's a bunch of changes that need to happen on fedora.redhat.com, because it's been decaying for far too long -- and we're going to make these changes in the next two weeks. Basically, here's our plan: 1. Rework all the content, bearing in mind that at some point (soon) we'll move it to fp.o. Most of the new content will be repurposed from the great content that has been written at fp.o recently. For the first few days of next week, Alex and I will be barricading ourselves in a room and writing/editing/checking in new content. That's all we'll be doing. 2. Begin translation efforts in-house for this static content. I expect it'll be mostly Red Hat folks, but this is a decision for Sarah Wang, who runs our translation efforts. The goal will be to have key f.r.c content translated into several of the most popular languages within the next month. This way, once we've worked out the infrastructure issues for the static content on fp.o (drupal? zope? YAcms?), the work of sorting the content *itself* will be mostly done. And it no longer makes sense (and never did, really) to delay this content rewrite until we've got a "better" website to put it on. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Tue, 8 Nov 2005, Patrick Barnes wrote: > First, I'd like to welcome you all to the new Fedora Websites mailing > list. The purpose of this list is discussion related to the formal > Fedora websites (fedoraproject.org and fedora.redhat.com) and to allow a > forum for communication between the contributors and maintainers of > these sites and the maintainers of third-party Fedora-related websites. > > To start off, we have a few items to address. Consider these the early > agenda for this list and the group it represents. Additions and > suggestions are welcome. > > 1. The List of Fedora Community Websites > Scott Glaser has begun working on a list [1] of Fedora Community > Websites that will be added to the Communicate page [2] of the wiki. If > you have any suggestions for this list, please contact him. He will > also need assistance in deciding what sorts of sites should be > included. If you have any remarks to that end, he will be happy to hear > them in #fedora-docs on freenode. Look for Sonar_Guy. > > 2. Deprecation of fedora.redhat.com > Ongoing efforts have been underway to place all critical content on the > fedoraproject.org wiki and to prepare the wiki to supplant the current > fedora.redhat.com website as the primary site for the Project. Much of > the content from f.r.c has already been duplicated on the wiki, but > there are still many pieces that have yet to be moved. One of the > bigger concerns is publishing the documentation produced by the Docs > Project on the wiki. Another key concern is tightening security and > establishing policies for key wiki pages, such as those which are > highest traffic or contain legal information. > > 3. Technical contacts and maintainers for wiki pages > The idea of marking pages on the wiki using comments to list technical > contacts/maintainers for those pages has been discussed on > fedora-docs-list. The idea is simple: have a maintainer assigned to > each page, who is responsible for keeping that page up-to-date and > generally taking care of it. For more details, please see the > fedora-docs-list archives [3]. > > 4. Wiki translation > Yuan Yijun has jumped ahead of the rest of us and begun working on a > zh_CN translation of the wiki. So far, his work has not been in line > with the translation ideas discussed so far. We need to decide just how > we want to handle the wiki translation, including what kind of structure > we want to use, policies regarding translation of sensitive materials, > and what parts of the wiki should (not) be translated. Obviously, there > is interest in getting this done. We have had individuals interested > specifically in Japanese, Chinese, Brazilian Portuguese and French > translations all try to get things moving. It's time to figure out how > this is going to be done. > > 5. Usability improvements on the wiki > There have been several good suggestions for improvements to the wiki. > First, there was the idea of making a more general-purpose FrontPage to > better serve visitors. Then, assorted improvements for the wiki's > themes. A lot of progress has been made, lets see what else needs to be > done. The latest idea, courtesy of Rahul Sundaram, is the restoration > of the 'Parent' links provided by MoinMoin's default themes. These > links, which allow a visitor to quickly browse to any page's parent in > the hierarchy, disappeared during the creation of the > kindofblue/sinorca4moin theme. > > On a final note, if you have not already done so, you might want to > consider signing up for the 'web' group in the Fedora Account System and > adding yourself to the list on the wiki [4] of people > interested in working on the Fedora websites. Elliot Lee was kind > enough to start that page as a first step in coordinating work on the > Fedora websites. He had an excellent point, and one that is served well > by this new mailing list: it is time that all the various efforts to > improve Fedora on the web be coordinated so that they may move forward > more efficiently. Lets do it! > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ScottGlaser - See the bottom of the page > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate > [3] > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-October/msg00111.html > [4] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites > > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > www.n-man.com > -- > > > From tchung at fedoranews.org Fri Nov 11 21:52:31 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:52:31 -0800 Subject: Interim plan for fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20051111213725.M68187@fedoranews.org> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:47:44 -0500 (EST), Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote > OK, so. There's a bunch of changes that need to happen on > fedora.redhat.com, because it's been decaying for far too long -- and > we're going to make these changes in the next two weeks. Basically, > here's our plan: > > 1. Rework all the content, bearing in mind that at some point (soon) we'll > move it to fp.o. Most of the new content will be repurposed from the > great content that has been written at fp.o recently. For the first few > days of next week, Alex and I will be barricading ourselves in a room and > writing/editing/checking in new content. That's all we'll be doing. > > 2. Begin translation efforts in-house for this static content. I expect > it'll be mostly Red Hat folks, but this is a decision for Sarah Wang, who > runs our translation efforts. The goal will be to have key f.r.c content > translated into several of the most popular languages within the next > month. > > This way, once we've worked out the infrastructure issues for the static > content on fp.o (drupal? zope? YAcms?), the work of sorting the content > *itself* will be mostly done. And it no longer makes sense (and never > did, really) to delay this content rewrite until we've got a "better" > website to put it on. > > --g > > _____________________ ____________________________________________ > Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have > Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the > Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the > ] [ dumb. --mcluhan > Hi All, I just joined Fedora "web" group officially approved by Warren Togami. (Thank you again Warren.) Here is my first question as a member. Who's going to decide which CMS will be installed on fedoraproject.org? I understand Seth Vidal prefers Python based CMS and I'm sure everyone has their own favorite CMS. Recently I've been testing Drupal CMS (http://drupal.org) on my own server (http://fedoranews.org/cms) and I must admit I'm very impressed with its features and capabilities. Please let me know if I misunderstood the plan. Otherwise, I hope there is some sort of voting process for us. Regards, -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From kwade at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 21:09:49 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:09:49 -0800 Subject: subject identifier removed In-Reply-To: References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1131743389.5147.22.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-11-11 at 14:18 -0500, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > Could you replace it with a shorter [f-web-l] or something? I could, but it's repetitious. The headers already contain plenty of useful strings to make a regexp against without including one in the Subject. OTOH, not having the entirety of the view in our MUAs be [Fedora- websites-list] and just the first view letters of the real subject, that is quite valuable. So, I give -1 to this and you have to get more consensus to make your change stick. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 21:10:23 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:10:23 -0800 Subject: subject identifier removed In-Reply-To: <20051111190158.M49744@fedoranews.org> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111190158.M49744@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1131743423.5147.24.camel@erato.phig.org> Bouncing to list, as Thomas meant to reply-to-all. On Fri, 2005-11-11 at 11:03 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:10:32 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote > > I've removed the annoying [Fedora-websites-list] from the generated > > Subject line for this list. > > > > - Karsten > > -- > > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > > Red Hat SELinux Guide > > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ > > Actually, it was helpful to identify the mail before moving [Fedora-websites-list] folder. I know, and I'm sorry for messing up anyone's folders. Being able to read the subject in a MUA is more valuable, I think, as there are already other searchable strings in the headers. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tchung at fedoranews.org Fri Nov 11 22:09:08 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:09:08 -0800 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> Hi All, I just noticed that "fedora-websites-list at redhat.com" is not the default reply address for this list. I think it should. Anyone agree with me on this matter? Say "Aye" or "Nay" :) -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 11 21:13:49 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:43:49 +0530 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> Thomas Chung wrote: >Hi All, > >I just noticed that "fedora-websites-list at redhat.com" is not the default reply address >for this list. > >I think it should. > >Anyone agree with me on this matter? Say "Aye" or "Nay" :) > > Aye!, IMO no voting is necessary to do sensible things like this. Just do it regards Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 22:08:17 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:08:17 -0500 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131746897.2925.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 02:43 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >I just noticed that "fedora-websites-list at redhat.com" is not the default reply address > >for this list. > > > >I think it should. > > > >Anyone agree with me on this matter? Say "Aye" or "Nay" :) > > > > > Aye!, IMO no voting is necessary to do sensible things like this. Just do it Disagree here. If this happens, my "Ctrl+R" doesn't let me send a private reply in Evolution. With a normal lits, I can do either that, or "Ctrl+L" to reply to the list (or "Ctrl+Shift+R" to do both). You're going to find just as many people who love changing the reply-to as hate it. Honestly I don't care, but what I *do* care about is that some Fedora lists do it one way, and others do it another way. THAT is really annoying. So whoever's acting like the oddball, do us a favor and cut it out! 1/2 ;-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Nov 12 00:37:22 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:37:22 -0600 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <43753942.2090204@n-man.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Thomas Chung wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> I just noticed that "fedora-websites-list at redhat.com" is not the >> default reply address >> for this list. >> I think it should. >> >> Anyone agree with me on this matter? Say "Aye" or "Nay" :) >> >> > Aye!, IMO no voting is necessary to do sensible things like this. Just > do it > > regards > Rahul > +1 Most of the other key lists modify the Reply-To header, I'm used to it, I say we follow the leaders. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Sat Nov 12 02:58:14 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:58:14 +0900 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Daily news feeds Proposal In-Reply-To: <1131666619.16229.18.camel@cutter> References: <20051110201929.M5483@openwebmail.org> <4373A861.30806@redhat.com> <20051110220822.M98834@fedoranews.org> <4373D68C.8010906@redhat.com> <20051111002945.M38876@fedoranews.org> <1131666619.16229.18.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <43755A46.5060206@yahoo.co.jp> Hi, Will news.fedoraproject.org have translation? If so, apache + zope + plone might be a good choice for cms. I am not interested in maintaining news.fedoraproject.org, but it would be nice to have news site for Japanese as well. Thank you and Best Regards, Yoshihiro seth vidal wrote: > On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 16:35 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > >>On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:53:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote >> >>>.. If news.fedoraproject.org is just >>>going to be a redirect to fedoranews.org then it might feasible for you >>>to try drupal and others but I think it would better for the formal >>>sites to be within the same infrastructure. >> >>I've already installed it (Dupal) and trying to learn some of its new features. :) >> >>http://fedoranews.org/cms/ >> > > > There are several reasons why we should be converging on a single > dynamically typed language and single statically typed language, as much > as possible, for fedora infrastructure: > 1. conservation of skills > 2. consistency of message > 3. component interaction > > Right now we have a buildsystem in python, an accounts system in python > a wiki in python and all the major tools for fedora, in python, but > we're testing out php-based cms? Am I the only one who thinks that seems > kinda dumb? > > I think we should be looking at some of the python cms implementations > and for custom applications looking at turbogears and friends. > > -sv > > From tchung at fedoranews.org Sat Nov 12 04:04:39 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:04:39 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Daily news feeds Proposal In-Reply-To: <43755A46.5060206@yahoo.co.jp> References: <20051110201929.M5483@openwebmail.org> <4373A861.30806@redhat.com> <20051110220822.M98834@fedoranews.org> <4373D68C.8010906@redhat.com> <20051111002945.M38876@fedoranews.org> <1131666619.16229.18.camel@cutter> <43755A46.5060206@yahoo.co.jp> Message-ID: <20051112040408.M36614@fedoranews.org> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:58:14 +0900, Yoshihiro Totaka wrote > Hi, > > Will news.fedoraproject.org have translation? > If so, apache + zope + plone might be a good choice for cms. > I am not interested in maintaining news.fedoraproject.org, but it would > be nice to have news site for Japanese as well. > > Thank you and Best Regards, > Yoshihiro I've been testing drupal on my site and it supports Locale: multi-language module. http://drupal.org/node/290 -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From tchung at fedoranews.org Sat Nov 12 05:05:11 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:05:11 -0800 Subject: Websites running on Drupal Message-ID: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> I just learned that http://spreadfirefox.com is running on Drupal as well as: http://gnomedesktop.org/ http://kerneltrap.org/ I also found videos (ogg in torrent) from Drupal conference: http://drupal.org/drupalcon-2005-media -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Sat Nov 12 18:53:42 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:53:42 +0900 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Daily news feeds Proposal In-Reply-To: <20051112040408.M36614@fedoranews.org> References: <20051110201929.M5483@openwebmail.org> <4373A861.30806@redhat.com> <20051110220822.M98834@fedoranews.org> <4373D68C.8010906@redhat.com> <20051111002945.M38876@fedoranews.org> <1131666619.16229.18.camel@cutter> <43755A46.5060206@yahoo.co.jp> <20051112040408.M36614@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <43763A36.2070602@yahoo.co.jp> Thomas Chung wrote: > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 11:58:14 +0900, Yoshihiro Totaka wrote > >>Hi, >> >>Will news.fedoraproject.org have translation? >>If so, apache + zope + plone might be a good choice for cms. >>I am not interested in maintaining news.fedoraproject.org, but it would >>be nice to have news site for Japanese as well. >> >>Thank you and Best Regards, >>Yoshihiro > > > I've been testing drupal on my site and it supports Locale: multi-language module. > > http://drupal.org/node/290 > That looks good. There seems to be Japanese drupal site too. I hope news.fedoraproject.org will be built with multi-language on mind. Thank you and Best Regards, Yoshihiro From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Sat Nov 12 20:42:51 2005 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 15:42:51 -0500 Subject: Interim plan for fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <20051111213725.M68187@fedoranews.org> References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> <20051111213725.M68187@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1131828171.5370.4.camel@cutter> > I just joined Fedora "web" group officially approved by Warren Togami. (Thank you again > Warren.) > > Here is my first question as a member. > Who's going to decide which CMS will be installed on fedoraproject.org? > > Please let me know if I misunderstood the plan. Otherwise, I hope there is some sort of > voting process for us. voting process on security of the systems we use. That sounds like a fantastic idea -sv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Nov 12 20:59:02 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:59:02 -0600 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> Thomas Chung wrote: > I just learned that http://spreadfirefox.com is running on Drupal as well as: > > http://gnomedesktop.org/ > http://kerneltrap.org/ > > I also found videos (ogg in torrent) from Drupal conference: > > http://drupal.org/drupalcon-2005-media > > -- > Thomas Chung > FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) > "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" > > So, would that be the same spreadfirefox.com that has been compromised three time in the last few months? The same one that required users to keep changing their might-have-been-compromised information? Kind of leaves me curious... Do we have any information on Drupal's security track record? PHP has had its fair share of problems. I'm not meaning to bash on Drupal or PHP, but these are important concerns. I'm not going to pretend that Python and the Python software currently in use are perfect, but security was one of the considerations in their selection. It would be helpful to know how spreadfirefox.com was compromised. If their failures were problems with Drupal or PHP, or if they were problems elsewhere would be nice to know. Assuming we'll not learn that, we need to at least thoroughly investigate the security records of any software we consider. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Nov 12 21:04:18 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 15:04:18 -0600 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <437658D2.7000001@n-man.com> With a 3-1 vote in favor of changing the Reply-To address to the list, I'm making this change. If this sparks enough complaints, we can change it back. For now, this brings us in line with the other key lists. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sat Nov 12 21:16:38 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:16:38 -0500 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> > So, would that be the same spreadfirefox.com that has been compromised > three time in the last few months? The same one that required users to > keep changing their might-have-been-compromised information? Kind of > leaves me curious... > > Do we have any information on Drupal's security track record? PHP has > had its fair share of problems. > Drupal has had a fair share of issues. The xml-rpc issues hit it hard and b/c there are an ever-growing set of modules for drupal, which, of course, we'd want to use ALL of - then we'll have to audit more and more code that is OUTSIDE of the base package. Audits that we have no one to conduct or focus on, in fact. DANGEROUS behavior is what that is. > I'm not meaning to bash on Drupal or PHP, but these are important > concerns. I'm not going to pretend that Python and the Python software > currently in use are perfect, but security was one of the considerations > in their selection. It would be helpful to know how spreadfirefox.com > was compromised. If their failures were problems with Drupal or PHP, or > if they were problems elsewhere would be nice to know. Assuming we'll > not learn that, we need to at least thoroughly investigate the security > records of any software we consider. http://blog.sethdot.org/index.cgi/263.html The ubuntu people have had a good deal of success focusing their efforts on a single dynamic typed and web-interfacing language. for proof of this look at launchpad.net, ubuntulinux.org, their wiki, etc etc etc -sv From tchung at fedoranews.org Sat Nov 12 22:18:55 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:18:55 -0800 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> Message-ID: <20051112221856.M47112@fedoranews.org> (sorry if you're getting a duplicate message) On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:59:02 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote > Do we have any information on Drupal's security track record? PHP has > had its fair share of problems. > > I'm not meaning to bash on Drupal or PHP, but these are important > concerns. I'm not going to pretend that Python and the Python software > currently in use are perfect, but security was one of the considerations > in their selection. It would be helpful to know how spreadfirefox.com > was compromised. If their failures were problems with Drupal or PHP, or > if they were problems elsewhere would be nice to know. Assuming we'll > not learn that, we need to at least thoroughly investigate the security > records of any software we consider. Here is a list of security track records for Drupal 4.x from secunia. http://secunia.com/product/342/ Basically there were 1 security advisory in 2002, 2003 then 5 security advisories in 2005. Also I would suggest to check out the video with title "100% availability, scalability and security with Drupal" from Drupal conference: http://drupal.org/drupalcon-2005-media -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Sat Nov 12 21:23:33 2005 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:23:33 -0500 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <20051112221856.M47112@fedoranews.org> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <20051112221856.M47112@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1131830613.5370.12.camel@cutter> On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 14:18 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > (sorry if you're getting a duplicate message) > > On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:59:02 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote > > Do we have any information on Drupal's security track record? PHP has > > had its fair share of problems. > > > > I'm not meaning to bash on Drupal or PHP, but these are important > > concerns. I'm not going to pretend that Python and the Python software > > currently in use are perfect, but security was one of the considerations > > in their selection. It would be helpful to know how spreadfirefox.com > > was compromised. If their failures were problems with Drupal or PHP, or > > if they were problems elsewhere would be nice to know. Assuming we'll > > not learn that, we need to at least thoroughly investigate the security > > records of any software we consider. > > Here is a list of security track records for Drupal 4.x from secunia. > > http://secunia.com/product/342/ > > Basically there were 1 security advisory in 2002, 2003 then 5 security advisories in 2005. > Thomas, it'd be more interesting to look on the defacement sites and find out how many sites were defaced running drupal - as that metric gives us the more worrisome result. moreover - you need to count every remotely-exploitable issue in php in a module that drupal uses. php-xml-rpc, specifically, should be fun to watch. -sv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tchung at fedoranews.org Sat Nov 12 22:23:35 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:23:35 -0800 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:16:38 -0500, seth vidal wrote > http://blog.sethdot.org/index.cgi/263.html > > The ubuntu people have had a good deal of success focusing their efforts > on a single dynamic typed and web-interfacing language. > > for proof of this look at launchpad.net, ubuntulinux.org, their wiki, > etc etc etc Speaking of ubuntu, their community site called "Fridge" is also running on Drupal. http://fridge.ubuntu.com/ -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Sat Nov 12 21:35:47 2005 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:35:47 -0500 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> > > for proof of this look at launchpad.net, ubuntulinux.org, their wiki, > > etc etc etc > > Speaking of ubuntu, their community site called "Fridge" is also running on Drupal. > > http://fridge.ubuntu.com/ At the risk of sounding like I'm measuring dicks: Thomas, how long have you been a system and/or security administrator? Are you willing to watch drupal, maintain the package, and audit ALL of the modules that we decide to use? Are you a php programmer, even? In other words - who is expecting to do the work here? B/c if the drupal site is going to run on fedoraproject.org and you're expecting me to monitor and watch the drupal devel process for problems or security alerts you have another thing coming. -sv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sat Nov 12 21:42:04 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 03:12:04 +0530 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <437661AC.2050301@redhat.com> Hi >At the risk of sounding like I'm measuring dicks: > >Thomas, how long have you been a system and/or security administrator? > >Are you willing to watch drupal, maintain the package, and audit ALL of >the modules that we decide to use? > >Are you a php programmer, even? > >In other words - who is expecting to do the work here? B/c if the drupal >site is going to run on fedoraproject.org and you're expecting me to >monitor and watch the drupal devel process for problems or security >alerts you have another thing coming. > > > Peace everyone. I am going to repeat the same suggestion. If the cms needs to be run within fedoraproject.org it has already been made clear that Seth doesnt want a PHP based solution due to security concerns from a administrative point of view. Python is generally what Fedora prefers too. So we can look at the python based CMS and check which one fits our needs or just set a redirect from news.fedoraproject.org to fedoranews.org and let Thomas Chung continue to administrate and setup Drupal or anything else that he prefers. Any other suggestions? regards Rahu From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sat Nov 12 21:48:29 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:48:29 -0500 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <437661AC.2050301@redhat.com> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> <437661AC.2050301@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131832109.5370.27.camel@cutter> > Peace everyone. I am going to repeat the same suggestion. If the cms > needs to be run within fedoraproject.org it has already been made clear > that Seth doesnt want a PHP based solution due to security concerns from > a administrative point of view. Python is generally what Fedora prefers > too. So we can look at the python based CMS and check which one fits > our needs or just set a redirect from news.fedoraproject.org to > fedoranews.org and let Thomas Chung continue to administrate and setup > Drupal or anything else that he prefers. > I will quote here what I said to Elliot(sopwith) off list a few weeks ago: Begin Quote: However, if drupal is the "final decision" and you wish to insist on using it then at the very least I want to see: - a drupal and drupal-module packages show up in fedora extras LONG before we implement it. No matter what system is chosen I want to see: - all modules we write for it MUST live in fedora cvs and the developers will NOT have direct write access to the web server running the website and from where the system runs. This is for the system's protection and to enforce rigor among the people maintaining the site. - Programming standards like the process we have implemented for extras packages. So no one person can push through some crack onto the live system. I think we're making a mistake by developing our website using a language which is not the primary development language for applications and utilities we write for the distribution we work on. We're dividing our programming resources and we're sending a mixed message on language use. Not to mention encouraging poor programming practices. End Quote -sv From tchung at fedoranews.org Sat Nov 12 22:54:36 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 14:54:36 -0800 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <20051112223653.M99895@fedoranews.org> On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:35:47 -0500, seth vidal wrote > Thomas, how long have you been a system and/or security administrator? > > Are you willing to watch drupal, maintain the package, and audit ALL of > the modules that we decide to use? > > Are you a php programmer, even? > > In other words - who is expecting to do the work here? B/c if the drupal > site is going to run on fedoraproject.org and you're expecting me to > monitor and watch the drupal devel process for problems or security > alerts you have another thing coming. > > -sv It's not just me and you who will make the decision. I'm just throwing my ideas and recommendation. We should consider *all* recommendations from *all* us then put it on vote as we are living in a democratic world. I don't want to see a *single* individual make all the decisions for *all* of us. As for my website, I'm going with Drupal for next CMS. Yes, I'm going to maintain the package and audit the modules on my server. No, I'm not a PHP programer and I probably don't have as much experience as you do. (breathing a moment) Perhaps, we started in wrong foot. All I wanted and the primary reason to join Fedora WebGroup was to help develop/maintain Fedora Community Website. I'm not really interested in *system administration* of fedoraproject.org I'll step aside for now so *real* system administrators can make the decision. I'll accept whatever CMS as a WebGroup decides. -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Sat Nov 12 21:58:50 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 06:58:50 +0900 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <437661AC.2050301@redhat.com> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> <437661AC.2050301@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4376659A.7030108@yahoo.co.jp> As long as there is multi-lingual support for news.fedoraproject.org, I am very happy. I have been translating fedoranews.org to Japanese, but because of administrating cost of CMS, I have been using static web site. So there was very little contribution from Japanese community members. It seems drupal's multi-language support needs "quite a bit of extra maintenance". From http://fridge.ubuntu.com/about "We really wanted to have deep internationalisation support for The Fridge as soon as it launched, but unfortunately it will have to wait. The i18n support for Drupal requires quite a bit of extra maintenance, but hopefully we can demonstrate a good use case to the Drupal community, and work with them to get it into an upcoming release." -Yoshihiro Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > >> At the risk of sounding like I'm measuring dicks: >> >> Thomas, how long have you been a system and/or security administrator? >> Are you willing to watch drupal, maintain the package, and audit ALL of >> the modules that we decide to use? >> >> Are you a php programmer, even? >> >> In other words - who is expecting to do the work here? B/c if the drupal >> site is going to run on fedoraproject.org and you're expecting me to >> monitor and watch the drupal devel process for problems or security >> alerts you have another thing coming. >> >> >> > Peace everyone. I am going to repeat the same suggestion. If the cms > needs to be run within fedoraproject.org it has already been made clear > that Seth doesnt want a PHP based solution due to security concerns from > a administrative point of view. Python is generally what Fedora prefers > too. So we can look at the python based CMS and check which one fits > our needs or just set a redirect from news.fedoraproject.org to > fedoranews.org and let Thomas Chung continue to administrate and setup > Drupal or anything else that he prefers. > > Any other suggestions? > > regards > Rahu > From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sat Nov 12 22:07:44 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 17:07:44 -0500 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <20051112223653.M99895@fedoranews.org> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> <20051112223653.M99895@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1131833265.5370.36.camel@cutter> > It's not just me and you who will make the decision. I'm just throwing my ideas and > recommendation. We should consider *all* recommendations from *all* us then put it on > vote as we are living in a democratic world. I don't want to see a *single* individual > make all the decisions for *all* of us. We're not a democracy. We never have been one. anyone who thinks fedora has been democratic hasn't been paying attention. Moreover it SHOULD NOT be democratic. It should focus on the merits of the items involved. So let's stop talking about voting on things. That way lies madness. > As for my website, I'm going with Drupal for next CMS. Yes, I'm going to maintain the > package and audit the modules on my server. > > No, I'm not a PHP programer and I probably don't have as much experience as you do. I'm not a php programmer and don't have any desire to learn. After years of php exploits affecting hundreds of programs I did everything I could to disable php everywhere I encountered it. > Perhaps, we started in wrong foot. All I wanted and the primary reason to join Fedora > WebGroup was to help develop/maintain Fedora Community Website. I'm not really > interested in *system administration* of fedoraproject.org Right and that's ALL I'm interested in. The maintenance and the security of the website. > I'll step aside for now so *real* system administrators can make the decision. I'll > accept whatever CMS as a WebGroup decides. I'm not asking anyone to step aside - but I am asking that we try to focus on on languages and packages that have: 1. programmers who use and develop on in the project. 2. some history of a security infrastructure 3. the package in fedora core or extras with an active maintainer. -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Nov 13 02:20:26 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 07:50:26 +0530 Subject: Fedora International community websites Message-ID: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> Hi The dragon arises again. I pointed earlier that there has been a growing number of Fedora related international websites which are completely disconnected from the each other and the formal websites. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-September/msg00203.html Can someone speaking these languages contact the respective website administrators and ask them to sign up in this list and introduce themselves to get them all in the same page. We need to coordinate better on this. What are the major issues to deal with? regards Rahul From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Sun Nov 13 02:53:15 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:53:15 +0900 Subject: Fedora International community websites In-Reply-To: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> References: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4376AA9B.9040707@yahoo.co.jp> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > The dragon arises again. I pointed earlier that there has been a growing > number of Fedora related international websites which are completely > disconnected from the each other and the formal websites. > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-September/msg00203.html > > > Can someone speaking these languages contact the respective website > administrators and ask them to sign up in this list and introduce > themselves to get them all in the same page. We need to coordinate > better on this. What are the major issues to deal with? > > regards > Rahul > Hi, I mailed http://fedora.jp administrators. I am also maintaining translation of fedoranews.org, which I am planning to abolish when news.fedoraproject.org is ready, and fedorafaq.org. If we are making local language web site, we can't just translate web site. It utterly fails, because documents needed to translate is huge and needs ongoing translation. If original article links to other English site for reference, then translated article doesn't really make sense unless we translate those linked sites as well. So if we are making local web site, you probably need to empower administrators of each language site to build a site which makes sense. -Yoshihiro From tchung at fedoranews.org Mon Nov 14 05:54:44 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 21:54:44 -0800 Subject: Fw: Third Party Vendor list modification In-Reply-To: <437815E0.3090403@weesb.com> References: <437815E0.3090403@weesb.com> Message-ID: <20051114054910.M17616@fedoranews.org> ---------- Forwarded Message ----------- From: *** To: vendors+fedora at fedora.redhat.com Cc: vendors at fedora.redhat.com Sent: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:43:12 +0800 Subject: Third Party Vendor list modification Hi, Appreciate if you can include the following website at your third party vendor of Fedora Core at http://fedora.redhat.com/download/vendors.html: *** ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- I've noticed I'm getting a few messages simliar to above ever since I joined Fedora Project WebGroup. I know I have access to fedoraproject.org vendor list. Do I have access to fedora.redhat.com vendor list? Does anyone in our group has direct access to fedora.redhat.com websites? -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Nov 14 05:41:18 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:41:18 -0600 Subject: Fw: Third Party Vendor list modification In-Reply-To: <20051114054910.M17616@fedoranews.org> References: <437815E0.3090403@weesb.com> <20051114054910.M17616@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <4378237E.9070107@n-man.com> Thomas Chung wrote: > ---------- Forwarded Message ----------- > From: *** > To: vendors+fedora at fedora.redhat.com > Cc: vendors at fedora.redhat.com > Sent: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:43:12 +0800 > Subject: Third Party Vendor list modification > > Hi, > > Appreciate if you can include the following website at your third party > vendor of Fedora Core at > http://fedora.redhat.com/download/vendors.html: > > *** > ------- End of Forwarded Message ------- > > I've noticed I'm getting a few messages simliar to above ever since I joined Fedora > Project WebGroup. I know I have access to fedoraproject.org vendor list. Do I have > access to fedora.redhat.com vendor list? Does anyone in our group has direct access to > fedora.redhat.com websites? > -- > Thomas Chung > FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) > "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" > > Unless you explicitly know you have access to fedora.redhat.com, you probably do not. There are members of this group that do, and appropriate action will be taken in response to the messages sent to vendors at fedora.redhat.com. You can safely ignore those messages. As you accurately noted, anyone in the 'web' group in the Fedora Account System will get those messages. As the content of fedora.redhat.com is going to change dramatically, and a lot of information is being moved away from f.r.c and into the wiki, the vendor list on f.r.c may not see many more additions before it is completely obsoleted by the wiki's version. We'll see how things develop. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 09:48:20 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:18:20 +0530 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <20051112223653.M99895@fedoranews.org> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> <20051112222206.M14568@fedoranews.org> <1131831347.5370.22.camel@cutter> <20051112223653.M99895@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <43785D64.50307@redhat.com> Hi >Perhaps, we started in wrong foot. All I wanted and the primary reason to join Fedora >WebGroup was to help develop/maintain Fedora Community Website. I'm not really >interested in *system administration* of fedoraproject.org > >I'll step aside for now so *real* system administrators can make the decision. I'll >accept whatever CMS as a WebGroup decides. > > Would it possible for you to evaluate any python based CMS systems?. If anyone has good ideas or recommendations on this, speak up. regards Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 12:58:36 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:58:36 -0800 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131973116.17318.28.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 02:43 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Thomas Chung wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >I just noticed that "fedora-websites-list at redhat.com" is not the default reply address > >for this list. > > > >I think it should. > > > >Anyone agree with me on this matter? Say "Aye" or "Nay" :) > > > > > Aye!, IMO no voting is necessary to do sensible things like this. Just do it My -1 was implied by the fact that I intentionally set up the list to have no munging. It is more than just MHO that munging is wrong and harmful. I'll leave the googling to you, but many smart and wise people agree that "munging reply-to is considered harmful." I don't like lowering standards of behavior to match stupid practices. The default should be to do no harm. Accidentally sending to one person v. a list is easy to fix. Accidentally sending to a list instead of one person is not so easy to fix. Especially when private thoughts are archived publicly. That said, if no one turns up to back up this position, oh well. I'll let the consensus have enough rope to hang itself with. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:08:03 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:08:03 -0800 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1131973683.17318.39.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 16:16 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > http://blog.sethdot.org/index.cgi/263.html As one of the people who has been the 'person' in this conversation, please allow me to publicly back your position. You are perfectly correct. But ... We have been laboring for months without needed functionality on fedoraproject.org _If_ there is an end in site, then great. But I want to know that our RFEs are not going to sink into a blackhole. Obviously, you have been a one-person show, which explains much of this. So, I'm going to pledge my efforts to find you more resources, probably from within Red Hat. They can work in Python, put up a Python-based CMS, add functionality to Moin Moin, and support whatever packages into FE that we need. If I can do that, can you, Seth, as the fp.o Chief SA, and to everyone else on this list, make this pledge: to make these additional functions a high priority? Provide status updates on when they can be completed? Give us some chances to work with beta versions? Etc. Here is a quick list: * Two-way editing of XML in CVS using the Wiki. * CMS back-end to allow us to have: - More writers and editors of content using a workflow that forces approval before content can be posted. - More Web-based functionality to attract contributors, without compromising on the extreme value of having all in XML * The ability to do more automagic with aggregation and building of content on the fly (RSS feeding into XML templates, or whatever) Anyone else have anything to add here? I think we need a separate thread to discuss the functionality of our CMS, separate from a discussion of specific solutions and languages. This topic may already be going, but I can't tell because all the messages seem to be about "[Fedora-websites-list] Re:..." and I haven't read through them yet. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:16:34 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:16:34 -0800 Subject: Interim plan for fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <20051111213725.M68187@fedoranews.org> References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> <20051111213725.M68187@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1131974194.17318.46.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2005-11-11 at 13:52 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > I just joined Fedora "web" group officially approved by Warren Togami. (Thank you again > Warren.) Welcome. I'm glad to see participation from active community site administrators. We may not be able to match all of our expectations or needs, but it's good that we have a chance and a place to work out our common understanding and goals. > Here is my first question as a member. > Who's going to decide which CMS will be installed on fedoraproject.org? It will be decided on this list. The decision, as all are in Fedora, comes from the project leaders. Ideas drift to the top based on merit. This is why PHP-based solutions are non-starters. They can never drift to the top because the merit of features-over-security is not the Fedora way. > Please let me know if I misunderstood the plan. Otherwise, I hope there is some sort of > voting process for us. As Seth has caustically put it, this is not a democracy. However, your voice has weight in the decision. Please keep thinking of solutions, given the limitations and parameters that the project leadership puts in place. We cannot endlessly debate what is the right solution. We need to pick one that best matches our values and capabilities, and push forward with it. It is better to take our time adding functionality to a good-enough but lacking solution, than to get ourselves stuck with a really-great security nightmare. The two people who have 1000x more merit than the rest of us when it comes to the Fedora infrastructure have put their feet down against PHP and for Python. AFAIC, the decision is made about language, now we just need to decide which Python-based solution to use. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:21:58 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:51:58 +0530 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <1131973116.17318.28.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> <1131973116.17318.28.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <43788F76.1040503@redhat.com> Hi >My -1 was implied by the fact that I intentionally set up the list to >have no munging. > >It is more than just MHO that munging is wrong and harmful. I'll leave >the googling to you, but many smart and wise people agree that "munging >reply-to is considered harmful." > The inconsistency with this is more harmful. Many other Fedora lists change the reply address. Decide on it, one way or the other and stick with it across all the Fedora mailing lists rather than having a individual policy for each and every list which is inconsistent with each other. My vote for +1 implied staying with what others lists have followed. If it's require a debate, its needed to be done at the project level and not here. regards Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:22:29 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:22:29 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1131974549.17318.51.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-11-08 at 09:48 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > One of the > bigger concerns is publishing the documentation produced by the Docs > Project on the wiki. This should be relatively easy. The content is checked into CVS as PHP- wrapped globs of HTML. We can replace this with Python-based wrapping, right? The pages are all statically generated from the PHP pages, using includes to pull in headers, footers, navigation elements, and styling. If we cannot change this to Python in the short-term, perhaps a simple solution is to have the PHP conversion done on the back-end inside of a private network, then rsync'd out to fp.org/docs. > Another key concern is tightening security and > establishing policies for key wiki pages, such as those which are > highest traffic or contain legal information. +1 for page owners. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Mon Nov 14 13:26:28 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:26:28 -0500 Subject: Interim plan for fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <1131974194.17318.46.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> <20051111213725.M68187@fedoranews.org> <1131974194.17318.46.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1131974788.18848.2.camel@ignacio.lan> On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 05:16 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > AFAIC, the decision is made about language, now we just > need to decide which Python-based solution to use. We have both Plone and Zope in Extras, so those are certainly decent options. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:28:32 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:28:32 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <4371193E.8030600@n-man.com> References: <20051108170040.8B99B7377A@hormel.redhat.com> <1131478117.2999.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <437108DF.6000206@redhat.com> <4371193E.8030600@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1131974912.17318.56.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-11-08 at 15:31 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > I love the wiki, but sometimes I hate it, too. I hope we can figure out > how to make all of these things work the way we want them to. I'd > really like to see this wiki provide both a wonderful example of what > can be done with a wiki and a brilliant Linux distribution website. Let's be careful about trying to make a Wiki into what it is not. It is an OK way to edit content. It is a great way to spur contribution. It is a very easy way to make changes to content. What it is not is a CMS. Once we add the functions of a CMS, it is now a CMS with Wiki-editing functionality. That is not necessarily a bad thing, IMO. Where it makes sense to _not_ use a Wiki, let's not. I think the front page for the project is just such a location: * It does not need regular editing by the community. * It does not need to be hampered by tool functionality. * It does need to be visually appealing. * It does need to be easily changeable by specific editors. A CMS can handle all this. In the meantime, how about using good ol' XHTML and CSS that we check into CVS and is pulled into index.html on an hourly basis? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:30:07 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:30:07 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Yum Mirror site update request In-Reply-To: <437345D0.1090707@yahoo.co.jp> References: <437345D0.1090707@yahoo.co.jp> Message-ID: <1131975008.17318.59.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 22:06 +0900, Yoshihiro Totaka wrote: > Hi, > > I am not sure if this list is suitable for this kind of request, but I > am wondering if you could help to update yum mirror sites, so it will be > in synch with mirror list of download page. > > For example, yum mirror list for Japan only lists 2 mirrors while > download page list 6 mirrors. > http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-4.jp > http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-4 > http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors.html#ASIA > > I also appreciate it if you could help to add update extras mirror lists. > http://ftp.riken.jp/Linux/fedora/extras/ > http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/Linux/Fedora/extras/ > http://ftp.iij.ad.jp/pub/linux/fedora/extras/ You can file bugs under Fedora Documentation > fedora-websites for these changes. Here is what this list is really for: How do we test or prove that a mirror should be on our list of mirrors? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:32:35 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:02:35 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Yum Mirror site update request In-Reply-To: <1131975008.17318.59.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <437345D0.1090707@yahoo.co.jp> <1131975008.17318.59.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <437891F3.6010200@redhat.com> Hi >Here is what this list is really for: > >How do we test or prove that a mirror should be on our list of mirrors? > >- Karsten > > Have you looked at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora/MirrorManagement ? regards Rahul From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Mon Nov 14 13:33:50 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <1131974549.17318.51.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> <1131974549.17318.51.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1131975230.18848.3.camel@ignacio.lan> On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 05:22 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > This should be relatively easy. The content is checked into CVS as PHP- > wrapped globs of HTML. We can replace this with Python-based wrapping, > right? There are multiple Python-based templating engines in Extras. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:35:45 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:05:45 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <1131975230.18848.3.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> <1131974549.17318.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1131975230.18848.3.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <437892B1.9040801@redhat.com> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: >On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 05:22 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >>This should be relatively easy. The content is checked into CVS as PHP- >>wrapped globs of HTML. We can replace this with Python-based wrapping, >>right? >> >> > >There are multiple Python-based templating engines in Extras. > > > Can you provide a list that would serve the purpose defined above? regards Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:44:19 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:44:19 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Streamline Accounts frontpage In-Reply-To: <437398C6.7050800@redhat.com> References: <437398C6.7050800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131975859.17318.62.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 14:00 -0500, Warren Togami wrote: > https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts/ > > I think the entire two paragraphs on top explaining Fedora Extras > shouldn't be here. Technically this account system is for more than > just Extras. It should instead mention various sub-projects whose > accounts are managed by this system. > > The link to Fedora FAQ on the bottom is out of place and confuses the > interface. Keep it simple and streamlined please. I want the line removed. > > Any objections? None from me, makes sense. Please file a bug in Fedora Documentation > fedora-websites, and we will work up some replacement text and push the bug to Elliot to finish with. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Mon Nov 14 13:46:15 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:46:15 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Fedora Websites Agenda In-Reply-To: <437892B1.9040801@redhat.com> References: <4370C8CB.4030901@n-man.com> <1131974549.17318.51.camel@erato.phig.org> <1131975230.18848.3.camel@ignacio.lan> <437892B1.9040801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131975975.18848.7.camel@ignacio.lan> On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 19:05 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > >On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 05:22 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > > > >>This should be relatively easy. The content is checked into CVS as PHP- > >>wrapped globs of HTML. We can replace this with Python-based wrapping, > >>right? > >> > >> > > > >There are multiple Python-based templating engines in Extras. > > > > > > > Can you provide a list that would serve the purpose defined above? Off the top of my head I believe that Kid (http://kid.lesscode.org/) can do it. I'd need to actually look at the others in order to know about them, and unfortunately I don't have the time right this minute to do so. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:48:54 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:48:54 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Daily news feeds Proposal In-Reply-To: <1131666619.16229.18.camel@cutter> References: <20051110201929.M5483@openwebmail.org> <4373A861.30806@redhat.com> <20051110220822.M98834@fedoranews.org> <4373D68C.8010906@redhat.com> <20051111002945.M38876@fedoranews.org> <1131666619.16229.18.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1131976134.17318.66.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 18:50 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 16:35 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:53:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote > > > .. If news.fedoraproject.org is just > > > going to be a redirect to fedoranews.org then it might feasible for you > > > to try drupal and others but I think it would better for the formal > > > sites to be within the same infrastructure. > > > > I've already installed it (Dupal) and trying to learn some of its new features. :) > > > > http://fedoranews.org/cms/ > > > > There are several reasons why we should be converging on a single > dynamically typed language and single statically typed language, as much > as possible, for fedora infrastructure: > 1. conservation of skills > 2. consistency of message > 3. component interaction Sure, but the various informal Fedora sites can use whatever they want, right? Why cannot Thomas et al use whatever they want and get news from us via RSS feeds? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 13:54:39 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:54:39 -0800 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <43788F76.1040503@redhat.com> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> <1131973116.17318.28.camel@erato.phig.org> <43788F76.1040503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131976480.17318.71.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 18:51 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >My -1 was implied by the fact that I intentionally set up the list to > >have no munging. > > > >It is more than just MHO that munging is wrong and harmful. I'll leave > >the googling to you, but many smart and wise people agree that "munging > >reply-to is considered harmful." > > > The inconsistency with this is more harmful. Many other Fedora lists > change the reply address. Decide on it, one way or the other and stick > with it across all the Fedora mailing lists rather than having a > individual policy for each and every list which is inconsistent with > each other. My vote for +1 implied staying with what others lists have > followed. If it's require a debate, its needed to be done at the project > level and not here. I disagree. The project-level decision was made outside of our control, long before I was involved. I think it was an incorrect decision to make. Fedora is about leading with smart standards, not doing the same things others do because it is comfie. If we are to make a project-level change, it has to start somewhere. But really, much better people than me have debated reply-to munging endlessly. I happen to fall on one side of that debate, but whatever. There are more important things to worry about than the fact that we make every person fend for themselves on mailing lists by enabling them to accidentally send private thoughts to world. I, for one, always check my headers before I send. Which is why I'm not usually caught by munging or lack of munging. My email goes where I want it to go because I sent it that way, not because of some munging. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 14:00:27 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 06:00:27 -0800 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Yum Mirror site update request In-Reply-To: <437891F3.6010200@redhat.com> References: <437345D0.1090707@yahoo.co.jp> <1131975008.17318.59.camel@erato.phig.org> <437891F3.6010200@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1131976827.17318.74.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 19:02 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >Here is what this list is really for: > > > >How do we test or prove that a mirror should be on our list of mirrors? > > > >- Karsten > > > > > Have you looked at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora/MirrorManagement ? Sweet. Any idea what the status on this is? Luke last edited that page on 01 August. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 14:08:33 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:38:33 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Yum Mirror site update request In-Reply-To: <1131976827.17318.74.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <437345D0.1090707@yahoo.co.jp> <1131975008.17318.59.camel@erato.phig.org> <437891F3.6010200@redhat.com> <1131976827.17318.74.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <43789A61.3090508@redhat.com> Hi >>> >>> >>Have you looked at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora/MirrorManagement ? >> >> > >Sweet. Any idea what the status on this is? Luke last edited that page >on 01 August. > >thx - Karsten > > Not a clue. Kindly do a status check and invite him to this list. regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 14 14:16:38 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 19:46:38 +0530 Subject: fedora-websites-list reply address In-Reply-To: <1131976480.17318.71.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1131729032.20949.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111192400.M33000@fedoranews.org> <1131742949.5147.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051111220230.M58398@fedoranews.org> <4375098D.6090508@redhat.com> <1131973116.17318.28.camel@erato.phig.org> <43788F76.1040503@redhat.com> <1131976480.17318.71.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <43789C46.1000706@redhat.com> Hi >I disagree. The project-level decision was made outside of our control, >long before I was involved. I think it was an incorrect decision to >make. Fedora is about leading with smart standards, not doing the same >things others do because it is comfie. > >If we are to make a project-level change, it has to start somewhere. > > I am not sure every list having a different policy is a smart standard for Fedora to be leading. Doing these changes on a per list basis in a inconsistent way will likely screw up anyone like me who is interested in participating in various Fedora lists. Sure, anyone could workaround that by cross checking the list headers but thats not necessarily best practice. My 2 paise regards Rahul From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Mon Nov 14 22:30:33 2005 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:30:33 +0100 Subject: Fedora International community websites Message-ID: <1132007433.2921.33.camel@MrTomLinux.workstation> Hello, No need to contact fedora-france.org because i am the website adminsitrator. I reading regularly the fedoranews issue and translate it in french every week. We are rather disconnected with the community as our website is being reorganized for the moment. We will perform some changes very soon, with a wiki for example and a french fedora blogging planet. There is also a project to translate howto in the future. -- Thomas Canniot www.fedora-france.org From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Nov 15 02:16:40 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:16:40 -0500 Subject: Websites running on Drupal In-Reply-To: <1131973683.17318.39.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20051112045535.M48301@fedoranews.org> <43765796.3030708@n-man.com> <1131830198.5370.9.camel@cutter> <1131973683.17318.39.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132021000.4057.30.camel@cutter> On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 05:08 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2005-11-12 at 16:16 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > http://blog.sethdot.org/index.cgi/263.html > > As one of the people who has been the 'person' in this conversation, > please allow me to publicly back your position. You are perfectly > correct. > > But ... > > We have been laboring for months without needed functionality on > fedoraproject.org > > _If_ there is an end in site, then great. But I want to know that our > RFEs are not going to sink into a blackhole. > > Obviously, you have been a one-person show, which explains much of this. > > So, I'm going to pledge my efforts to find you more resources, probably > from within Red Hat. They can work in Python, put up a Python-based > CMS, add functionality to Moin Moin, and support whatever packages into > FE that we need. > If I can do that, can you, Seth, as the fp.o Chief SA, and to everyone > else on this list, make this pledge: to make these additional functions > a high priority? Provide status updates on when they can be completed? > Give us some chances to work with beta versions? Etc. Yes. And as we did with the buildsystem systems those people who are willing to be security-minded and consistent with their application of that should and will have access to all aspects of the system. > Here is a quick list: > > * Two-way editing of XML in CVS using the Wiki. > * CMS back-end to allow us to have: > - More writers and editors of content using a workflow that forces > approval before content can be posted. > - More Web-based functionality to attract contributors, without > compromising on the extreme value of having all in XML > * The ability to do more automagic with aggregation and building of > content on the fly (RSS feeding into XML templates, or whatever) I was contacted by the lead of the django project (djangoproject.com) as a result of my rant in my blog. He's a fedora user and he says he's interested in helping out. Django is one of the python web toolkits that is rapidly advancing up the stack of things. I responded to him to join this list and let's start figuring out what to implement. -sv From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Tue Nov 15 02:43:12 2005 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:43:12 -0500 Subject: [Fedora-websites-list] Re: Daily news feeds Proposal In-Reply-To: <1131976134.17318.66.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20051110201929.M5483@openwebmail.org> <4373A861.30806@redhat.com> <20051110220822.M98834@fedoranews.org> <4373D68C.8010906@redhat.com> <20051111002945.M38876@fedoranews.org> <1131666619.16229.18.camel@cutter> <1131976134.17318.66.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132022592.4057.47.camel@cutter> > Sure, but the various informal Fedora sites can use whatever they want, > right? of course. But Thomas was talking about it for the primary site. > Why cannot Thomas et al use whatever they want and get news from us via > RSS feeds? indeed. Just to clarify my position: I think php is generally dangerous. I think drupal is provenly unsafe. I don't think we have the necessary rigor in place yet to support the infrastructure we want on the fedoraproject.org site. I think your sysadmins at red hat agree about php in large part b/c of the pain that is updating fedora.redhat.com I think we can do two things to make this get better: 1. start by targeting a specific subset of functionality we need and either finding it or writing it. 2. work on using some of the templating systems that already exist for rendering the website. 3. upgrade the current site onto the new hardware so we can begin playing with options. The network pieces that I needed in order to move the new fedoraproject.org hardware to the correct place are coming to pass this wednesday. (We're moving buildsys.fedoraproject.org and mirror.linux.duke.edu, too). Once that happens the new system will be setup and running. The things I intend to do on the new system: 1. setup moinmoin 1.3.5 - including the docbook renderable pages: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnXmlPages we've been kept from doing that b/c fedoraproject.org was running rhel3(ish) and the version of python was not new enough. 2. setup planet-plus for the feed aggregators so we can make our planet interface a little bit cooler. I'm also going to setup another, test box to let people start working on cgis and web interfaces. This will be a box we can blow up at a moments notice so the point here is only to let people work together on things. A lot of this stuff has been waiting on things to happen since my job changed at duke. I'll be grabbing account info and ssh keys from the fedora accounts system so hopefully anyone who wants to test things out there will be able to. -sv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From htaira at fedora.jp Tue Nov 15 14:57:59 2005 From: htaira at fedora.jp (TAIRA Hajime) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:57:59 +0900 Subject: Fedora International community websites In-Reply-To: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> References: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> Message-ID: <50A5B728-9156-421A-BD6E-AC62D08418D8@fedora.jp> Hi there! My name is TAIRA. I am one of the fedora.jp website administrators. TOTAKA san mailed us about this ML. Thanks! I wrote book about Fedora Core. Very well. Recently, the written book is "Fedora Core Expert". (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/ 4774124257/249-6199271-6805120) This book is like a "LINUX MAGAZINE". I wrote about LVM and Troubleshooting. I have only a few time. I read here as much as possible for Fedora. My best regards. .::.:... .::....: .::...:: .::.:.:: .::..:.: .:::..:. TAIRA Hajime (for fedora) web: http://pantora.net/ From kwade at redhat.com Tue Nov 15 23:57:34 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:57:34 -0800 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? Message-ID: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> We've touched upon the idea of retiring fedora.redhat.com and putting all of our content work on fedoraproject.org. Here are the salient points, as I grok them: * f.r.c is a static page or three that gives an appropriate message and/or redirect to fp.o * The build system that makes the /docs portion work needs to be i) ported over or ii) rewritten in Python. * Could we have the PHP building done inside a firewall and content grabbed from another CVS repo by fp.o/docs? As an interim solution until the includes are Pythonified. * Rewriting of content on f.r.c can happen concurrently with figuring out how to move over to fp.o. * What about _not_ having the Wiki be the front page to fp.o? Then we could have free reign with design. It can have a newsfeed section or two to keep things lively, but even a better splash page than what we have until the $PYTHON_CMS arrives from the sky. Ready or not ... - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 02:37:21 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:37:21 -0500 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> > * The build system that makes the /docs portion work needs to be i) > ported over or ii) rewritten in Python. Where is it right now? Can I get a look at it? > * Could we have the PHP building done inside a firewall and content > grabbed from another CVS repo by fp.o/docs? As an interim solution > until the includes are Pythonified. yes. > * What about _not_ having the Wiki be the front page to fp.o? Then we > could have free reign with design. It can have a newsfeed section or > two to keep things lively, but even a better splash page than what we > have until the $PYTHON_CMS arrives from the sky. hehe. So about a month ago gdk pinged me on irc and said 'we need to make the front page of fedoraproject.org the wiki frontpage.' So I said 'okay, lemme make an edit'. Then I did that and it was done. So you want it put back the other way? :) As an alternative I could include: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ParserMarket?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=html.py in our wiki which would allow whomever wants to edit the wiki front page to make it raw html instead of wiki language. lemme know what you'd rather have. -sv From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 07:40:49 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:40:49 -0800 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 21:37 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > * The build system that makes the /docs portion work needs to be i) > > ported over or ii) rewritten in Python. > > Where is it right now? Can I get a look at it? cvs.fedora:/cvs/fedora/web/ html --> HTML, head replaced w/ PHP includes include --> included bits config --> tells how to setup a sandbox scripts --> where the magic happens, including: /docbookhtml2php.py /dotphp2dothtml.sh > > * Could we have the PHP building done inside a firewall and content > > grabbed from another CVS repo by fp.o/docs? As an interim solution > > until the includes are Pythonified. > > yes. OK, you can actually just use the existing system and rsync off the built content. It is rendered into static pages hourly. PHP is not used to deliver dynamic content in real time. > > * What about _not_ having the Wiki be the front page to fp.o? Then we > > could have free reign with design. It can have a newsfeed section or > > two to keep things lively, but even a better splash page than what we > > have until the $PYTHON_CMS arrives from the sky. > > hehe. So about a month ago gdk pinged me on irc and said 'we need to > make the front page of fedoraproject.org the wiki frontpage.' So I said > 'okay, lemme make an edit'. Then I did that and it was done. So you want > it put back the other way? :) > > As an alternative I could include: > http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ParserMarket?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=html.py > in our wiki which would allow whomever wants to edit the wiki front page > to make it raw html instead of wiki language. > > lemme know what you'd rather have. Well, I wanted to bring this back up because of the problems we've had using the Wiki as the front page, in terms of layout. It was definitely the right move to make it the front page. It keeps it within the engine of content delivery, which is not a CMS but is starting smell like one. The html.py could also be a good idea, same idea of all-one back-end with more flexibility. I'll let Patrick weigh in here, as one person who has been feeling this pain. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 07:42:53 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:12:53 +0530 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <437AE2FD.3070702@redhat.com> Hi >It was definitely the right move to make it the front page. It keeps it >within the engine of content delivery, which is not a CMS but is >starting smell like one. The html.py could also be a good idea, same >idea of all-one back-end with more flexibility. > >I'll let Patrick weigh in here, as one person who has been feeling this >pain. > > We talked about this on #fedora-wiki before and Patrick wanted the html plugin available in fedoraproject.org to design the frontpage in html if necessary. So thats the solution preferred now. regards Rahul From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 08:00:40 2005 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:00:40 +0800 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <437AE2FD.3070702@redhat.com> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <437AE2FD.3070702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800511160000y4fd82867q@mail.gmail.com> 2005/11/16, Rahul Sundaram : > We talked about this on #fedora-wiki before and Patrick wanted the html > plugin available in fedoraproject.org to design the frontpage in html if > necessary. So thats the solution preferred now. > Can I assume that this static html page doesn't need translation? -- bbbush ^_^ From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 08:16:20 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:46:20 +0530 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <76e72f800511160000y4fd82867q@mail.gmail.com> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <437AE2FD.3070702@redhat.com> <76e72f800511160000y4fd82867q@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <437AEAD4.2070100@redhat.com> Yuan Yijun wrote: >2005/11/16, Rahul Sundaram : > > >>We talked about this on #fedora-wiki before and Patrick wanted the html >>plugin available in fedoraproject.org to design the frontpage in html if >>necessary. So thats the solution preferred now. >> >> >> > >Can I assume that this static html page doesn't need translation? > >-- >bbbush ^_^ > > > I dont see any reason to assume that. Translation of all the information provided within the fedoraproject.org would be ideal. regards Rahul From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Nov 16 10:58:35 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 04:58:35 -0600 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <437B10DB.3080907@n-man.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 21:37 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > >>> * The build system that makes the /docs portion work needs to be i) >>> ported over or ii) rewritten in Python. >>> >> Where is it right now? Can I get a look at it? >> > > cvs.fedora:/cvs/fedora/web/ > html --> HTML, head replaced w/ PHP includes > include --> included bits > config --> tells how to setup a sandbox > scripts --> where the magic happens, including: > /docbookhtml2php.py > /dotphp2dothtml.sh > > >>> * Could we have the PHP building done inside a firewall and content >>> grabbed from another CVS repo by fp.o/docs? As an interim solution >>> until the includes are Pythonified. >>> >> yes. >> > > OK, you can actually just use the existing system and rsync off the > built content. It is rendered into static pages hourly. PHP is not > used to deliver dynamic content in real time. > > >>> * What about _not_ having the Wiki be the front page to fp.o? Then we >>> could have free reign with design. It can have a newsfeed section or >>> two to keep things lively, but even a better splash page than what we >>> have until the $PYTHON_CMS arrives from the sky. >>> >> hehe. So about a month ago gdk pinged me on irc and said 'we need to >> make the front page of fedoraproject.org the wiki frontpage.' So I said >> 'okay, lemme make an edit'. Then I did that and it was done. So you want >> it put back the other way? :) >> >> As an alternative I could include: >> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ParserMarket?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=html.py >> in our wiki which would allow whomever wants to edit the wiki front page >> to make it raw html instead of wiki language. >> >> lemme know what you'd rather have. >> > > Well, I wanted to bring this back up because of the problems we've had > using the Wiki as the front page, in terms of layout. > > It was definitely the right move to make it the front page. It keeps it > within the engine of content delivery, which is not a CMS but is > starting smell like one. The html.py could also be a good idea, same > idea of all-one back-end with more flexibility. > > I'll let Patrick weigh in here, as one person who has been feeling this > pain. > > - Karsten > Yes, having raw HTML abilities would probably give us most of what we need to make a nicer FrontPage. My other concern has been some of the issues created by the layout when the viewport is resized. Along with raw HTML, some edits to the CSS might be needed to solve those. If that is the case, I can work with Hrishi to resolve those as we find them. It might take a little bit of work, but I'm sure we can get the wiki to do the kind of FrontPage we're looking for. It would be nice to keep the front page on the wiki for the sake of consistency and management. If we are unable to produce an adequate front page using the wiki, then I would of course have no objections to an alternative solution. Really, I favor keeping the number of different technologies we are using to a minimum, but we will probably not be able to get everything in the wiki. As we start wanting to add more dynamic capabilities to the front page, we will either have to start producing modules for MoinMoin or we'll have to use an alternative technology. Since MoinMoin has most of fedoraproject.org's content, it makes sense to try first to make it do what we need, and only fall back to other options where required. I don't think it is a good idea to apply too many patches to MoinMoin for manageability reasons, but producing modules that can be dropped in makes sense. See the bottom of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpOnMacros for more on adding plugins to MoinMoin. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 13:13:06 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:13:06 -0500 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <437AE2FD.3070702@redhat.com> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <437AE2FD.3070702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132146786.11169.64.camel@cutter> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 13:12 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >It was definitely the right move to make it the front page. It keeps it > >within the engine of content delivery, which is not a CMS but is > >starting smell like one. The html.py could also be a good idea, same > >idea of all-one back-end with more flexibility. > > > >I'll let Patrick weigh in here, as one person who has been feeling this > >pain. > > > > > We talked about this on #fedora-wiki before and Patrick wanted the html > plugin available in fedoraproject.org to design the frontpage in html if > necessary. So thats the solution preferred now. Did anyone ever ask me about adding the html plugin to moin? It's funny reading about these desired items for moin that no one mentioned. -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 13:18:36 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:48:36 +0530 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <1132146786.11169.64.camel@cutter> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <437AE2FD.3070702@redhat.com> <1132146786.11169.64.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <437B31AC.2050605@redhat.com> Hi >Did anyone ever ask me about adding the html plugin to moin? > >It's funny reading about these desired items for moin that no one >mentioned. > > Well now you know! but seriously this list was created for such discussions to be communicated and discussed in a more open manner. regards Rahul From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 13:21:54 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:21:54 -0500 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <437B10DB.3080907@n-man.com> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <437B10DB.3080907@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1132147314.11169.71.camel@cutter> > Yes, having raw HTML abilities would probably give us most of what we > need to make a nicer FrontPage. My other concern has been some of the > issues created by the layout when the viewport is resized. Along with > raw HTML, some edits to the CSS might be needed to solve those. If that > is the case, I can work with Hrishi to resolve those as we find them. > It might take a little bit of work, but I'm sure we can get the wiki to > do the kind of FrontPage we're looking for. Then why all the discussion? Get the page designed and written in html that you like and just ask for the html parser module. > As we start wanting to add more dynamic capabilities to the front page, > we will either have to start producing modules for MoinMoin or we'll > have to use an alternative technology. Since MoinMoin has most of > fedoraproject.org's content, it makes sense to try first to make it do > what we need, and only fall back to other options where required. I > don't think it is a good idea to apply too many patches to MoinMoin for > manageability reasons, but producing modules that can be dropped in > makes sense. See the bottom of > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpOnMacros for more on adding plugins to > MoinMoin. What are these other features that will be needed? And what dynamic capabilities do you want to add to the front page? Maybe I've missed something but has all this been discussed somewhere else? -sv From hballal at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 13:22:27 2005 From: hballal at gmail.com (Hrishikesh Ballal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:22:27 -0500 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? Message-ID: <87d5f0430511160522o776a2422gaa5e796359130a60@mail.gmail.com> > > * What about _not_ having the Wiki be the front page to fp.o? Then we > could have free reign with design. It can have a newsfeed section or > two to keep things lively, but even a better splash page than what we > have until the $PYTHON_CMS arrives from the sky. > > Ready or not ... > +1. I am helping Diana with the new front page and it would really help if we did not have the wiki as a front page. Design prototype here http://www.isity.net/temp/reformat.png Hrishi From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 13:31:07 2005 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:31:07 +0800 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <87d5f0430511160522o776a2422gaa5e796359130a60@mail.gmail.com> References: <87d5f0430511160522o776a2422gaa5e796359130a60@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800511160531t1fd60e44h@mail.gmail.com> 2005/11/16, Hrishikesh Ballal : > > http://www.isity.net/temp/reformat.png > Avoid punctuation in titles, except for commas only where demanded, please refer to documentation guide section #X, para #Y.... :) -- bbbush ^_^ From chitlesh at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 14:15:37 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:15:37 +0000 Subject: Can anyone implement a web based irc for us? Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511160615r52bbfef8rfa2b02ab580a1567@mail.gmail.com> Hello there, being fedora ambassadors (Im talking in the name of others too), as from this thursday we will occasionally hold meetings on irc. see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings But meetings time coincide with working hours and irc access is restricted. however there is a solution for us to connect and share ideas. it is http://www.linux-quebec.org/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi if anyone could host something similar it would be nice :) hoping that this is the best place to ask, Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 14:21:15 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:21:15 -0500 Subject: Can anyone implement a web based irc for us? In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511160615r52bbfef8rfa2b02ab580a1567@mail.gmail.com> References: <13dbfe4f0511160615r52bbfef8rfa2b02ab580a1567@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1132150875.14086.4.camel@cutter> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 14:15 +0000, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > Hello there, > being fedora ambassadors (Im talking in the name of others too), as > from this thursday we will occasionally hold meetings on irc. > see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings > But meetings time coincide with working hours and irc access is > restricted. > however there is a solution for us to connect and share ideas. > it is http://www.linux-quebec.org/cgi-bin/cgiirc/irc.cgi > if anyone could host something similar it would be nice :) > hoping that this is the best place to ask, If there are policies in place at your place of work to restrict access to irc then I do not think it is an act of good faith for the fedora project to provide you with a mechanism to circumvent those policies and/or break those rules. -sv From chitlesh at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 14:56:29 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:56:29 +0000 Subject: Can anyone implement a web based irc for us? In-Reply-To: <1132150875.14086.4.camel@cutter> References: <13dbfe4f0511160615r52bbfef8rfa2b02ab580a1567@mail.gmail.com> <1132150875.14086.4.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511160656i6e4cb40ejdbf315eb1197abdd@mail.gmail.com> Thank you Seth. you are right about it! Let's us be objective :) Chitlesh GOORAH -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 16:21:11 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:21:11 -0500 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132158071.16440.0.camel@cutter> > Well, I wanted to bring this back up because of the problems we've had > using the Wiki as the front page, in terms of layout. > > It was definitely the right move to make it the front page. It keeps it > within the engine of content delivery, which is not a CMS but is > starting smell like one. The html.py could also be a good idea, same > idea of all-one back-end with more flexibility. > > I'll let Patrick weigh in here, as one person who has been feeling this > pain. So are we decided we want html.py as a parser module and then the front page can be whatever? -sv From nman64 at n-man.com Wed Nov 16 16:46:01 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:46:01 -0600 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <1132158071.16440.0.camel@cutter> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132158071.16440.0.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <437B6249.1030300@n-man.com> seth vidal wrote: >> Well, I wanted to bring this back up because of the problems we've had >> using the Wiki as the front page, in terms of layout. >> >> It was definitely the right move to make it the front page. It keeps it >> within the engine of content delivery, which is not a CMS but is >> starting smell like one. The html.py could also be a good idea, same >> idea of all-one back-end with more flexibility. >> >> I'll let Patrick weigh in here, as one person who has been feeling this >> pain. >> > > So are we decided we want html.py as a parser module and then the front > page can be whatever? > > -sv > > > I think that's the idea. HTML will allow quite a bit more flexibility than what we have now. It would also be nice if we could get the sidebar-hiding patch in. As we prepare to add external news feeds or other dynamic information, we may need to add other small plugins to get the job done, but hopefully we can avoid using too many other patches. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From gdk at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 17:25:27 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:25:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <437B6249.1030300@n-man.com> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132158071.16440.0.camel@cutter> <437B6249.1030300@n-man.com> Message-ID: I think it's a given at some point that we're retiring f.r.c. But there's still work to be done maintaining it, for now. What we MUST do: 1. Identify static content that should not change much. Why? Because we need to translate it into every language on Earth. The more this content changes, the more difficult that will be to achieve realistically. 2. Actually translate it. These first two items needed to happen a long time ago. They're happening now. For right now, they're happening on f.r.c. Long-term, I don't care where this content goes, or what form it's maintained in -- so long as it's fairly static and easily translatable. And then: 3. Better design. 4. Figure out where this content will live. The problem we've been having is that we've been waiting for 4. to be resolved before working on 1. and 2. We're not doing that anymore. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Patrick Barnes wrote: > seth vidal wrote: > >> Well, I wanted to bring this back up because of the problems we've had > >> using the Wiki as the front page, in terms of layout. > >> > >> It was definitely the right move to make it the front page. It keeps it > >> within the engine of content delivery, which is not a CMS but is > >> starting smell like one. The html.py could also be a good idea, same > >> idea of all-one back-end with more flexibility. > >> > >> I'll let Patrick weigh in here, as one person who has been feeling this > >> pain. > >> > > > > So are we decided we want html.py as a parser module and then the front > > page can be whatever? > > > > -sv > > > > > > > I think that's the idea. HTML will allow quite a bit more flexibility > than what we have now. It would also be nice if we could get the > sidebar-hiding patch in. As we prepare to add external news feeds or > other dynamic information, we may need to add other small plugins to get > the job done, but hopefully we can avoid using too many other patches. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > www.n-man.com > -- > > > > From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 18:18:08 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:18:08 -0800 Subject: time to retire f.r.c? In-Reply-To: <1132147314.11169.71.camel@cutter> References: <1132099054.10509.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132108641.11169.4.camel@cutter> <1132126849.3572.39.camel@erato.phig.org> <437B10DB.3080907@n-man.com> <1132147314.11169.71.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1132165088.3572.50.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 08:21 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > What are these other features that will be needed? And what dynamic > capabilities do you want to add to the front page? > > Maybe I've missed something but has all this been discussed somewhere > else? Mainly IRC or various fedora-*-lists, as side bar discussions. As Rahul said, we knew we were doing it the wrong way. Now we can discuss, decide, and get stuff in your queue v. tackling you on IRC. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 20:02:39 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:02:39 -0800 Subject: moving Mailman Message-ID: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> What do you think about hosting Mailman through fp.org? Maybe a separate host at lists.fedoraproject.org, but have the MX forward from fp.org proper. This way we could open the process of creating new lists to people who do not have @redhat.com addresses. We could migrate over the current lists and have everything redirect through www.redhat.com? Or just have new lists come up there? It will be painful to change people's habits. Is it worth it at this point? Or better now than later? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tchung at fedoranews.org Wed Nov 16 21:11:24 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:11:24 -0800 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20051116210720.M10678@fedoranews.org> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 12:02:39 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote > What do you think about hosting Mailman through fp.org? Maybe a > separate host at lists.fedoraproject.org, but have the MX forward from > fp.org proper. > > This way we could open the process of creating new lists to people who > do not have @redhat.com addresses. > > We could migrate over the current lists and have everything redirect > through www.redhat.com? Or just have new lists come up there? > > It will be painful to change people's habits. Is it worth it at this > point? Or better now than later? > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Content Services Fedora Documentation Project > http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject I agree with the idea of having our own list server at fedoraproject.org. Redirecting from redhat.com is also good idea but I don't mind creating a new account on a new list server either. -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From chitlesh at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 20:14:18 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:14:18 +0000 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511161214qd5cc217p9aa858ecb42c5a35@mail.gmail.com> On 11/16/05, Karsten Wade wrote: > > This way we could open the process of creating new lists to people who > do not have @redhat.com addresses. > talking about this, it would be nice if fedora ambassadors could receive XXX at fedoracore.com or XXX at fedoraproject.org Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart at elsn.org Wed Nov 16 20:15:25 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:15:25 +0000 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132172125.2827.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 12:02 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > What do you think about hosting Mailman through fp.org? Maybe a > separate host at lists.fedoraproject.org, but have the MX forward from > fp.org proper. > > This way we could open the process of creating new lists to people who > do not have @redhat.com addresses. > > We could migrate over the current lists and have everything redirect > through www.redhat.com? Or just have new lists come up there? > > It will be painful to change people's habits. Is it worth it at this > point? Or better now than later? > > - Karsten It may break people's mail filters, so if it is going to be done I think it would be best to announce it widely, and then do it. The number of lists is only likely to get bigger... (I now have 8 Fedora lists on my filter setup, and other people probably have more). -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 20:24:40 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:24:40 -0500 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511161214qd5cc217p9aa858ecb42c5a35@mail.gmail.com> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <13dbfe4f0511161214qd5cc217p9aa858ecb42c5a35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1132172680.17438.8.camel@cutter> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 20:14 +0000, Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > On 11/16/05, Karsten Wade wrote: > This way we could open the process of creating new lists to > people who > do not have @redhat.com addresses. > > talking about this, it would be nice if fedora ambassadors could > receive > XXX at fedoracore.com or > XXX at fedoraproject.org 1. we don't house fedoracore.com that I know of and I, for one, don't want a .com address at all if I can avoid it. :) 2. I don't see why ambassadors and other contributors can't have fedoraproject.org addresses. Ask Alex about it. -sv From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 20:25:22 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:25:22 -0500 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <20051116210720.M10678@fedoranews.org> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051116210720.M10678@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1132172722.17438.10.camel@cutter> > I agree with the idea of having our own list server at fedoraproject.org. > > Redirecting from redhat.com is also good idea but I don't mind creating > a new account on a new list server either. What do we get from having another mailman instance at fedoraproject.org? Just the domain on the lists? -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 20:28:34 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:58:34 +0530 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511161214qd5cc217p9aa858ecb42c5a35@mail.gmail.com> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <13dbfe4f0511161214qd5cc217p9aa858ecb42c5a35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <437B9672.90808@redhat.com> Chitlesh GOORAH wrote: > > > On 11/16/05, *Karsten Wade* > wrote: > > This way we could open the process of creating new lists to people who > do not have @redhat.com addresses. > > > talking about this, it would be nice if fedora ambassadors could receive > XXX at fedoracore.com or > XXX at fedoraproject.org For fedoraproject.org, this is up for discussing in the next ambassadors meeting. We dont own fedoracore.com. regards Rahul From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 20:31:58 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:31:58 -0500 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132173118.17438.14.camel@cutter> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 12:02 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > What do you think about hosting Mailman through fp.org? Maybe a > separate host at lists.fedoraproject.org, but have the MX forward from > fp.org proper. > > This way we could open the process of creating new lists to people who > do not have @redhat.com addresses. > Do we need a lot more lists? Is it difficult to get lists made now? I know if I find a strong need for a fedora-project list I can just ask someone @redhat.com to request it. > It will be painful to change people's habits. Is it worth it at this > point? Or better now than later? I'm still not sure we get enough out of it to justify doing it at all. -sv From chitlesh at gmail.com Wed Nov 16 20:30:59 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:30:59 +0000 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <437B9672.90808@redhat.com> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <13dbfe4f0511161214qd5cc217p9aa858ecb42c5a35@mail.gmail.com> <437B9672.90808@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511161230l5cea8ec5sbbb70d5cd54a686a@mail.gmail.com> On 11/16/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > For fedoraproject.org , this is up for > discussing in the next ambassadors > meeting. We dont own fedoracore.com . > lol i used it as an example :) Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 20:45:12 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:15:12 +0530 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132173118.17438.14.camel@cutter> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132173118.17438.14.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <437B9A58.4020707@redhat.com> Hi >Do we need a lot more lists? >Is it difficult to get lists made now? I know if I find a strong need >for a fedora-project list I can just ask someone @redhat.com to request >it. > > With the content moving over, the more important point is probably the difference in perception with hosting Fedora related mailings lists in fedoraproject.org as opposed to redhat.com. Now to tackle bugzilla! regards Rahul From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Wed Nov 16 20:54:49 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:54:49 -0500 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <437B9A58.4020707@redhat.com> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132173118.17438.14.camel@cutter> <437B9A58.4020707@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132174489.17438.22.camel@cutter> On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 02:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >Do we need a lot more lists? > >Is it difficult to get lists made now? I know if I find a strong need > >for a fedora-project list I can just ask someone @redhat.com to request > >it. > > > > > With the content moving over, the more important point is probably the > difference in perception with hosting Fedora related mailings lists in > fedoraproject.org as opposed to redhat.com. Now to tackle bugzilla! umm, no. let's not mess with moving bugzilla. -sv From sundaram at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 21:02:30 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:32:30 +0530 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132174489.17438.22.camel@cutter> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <1132173118.17438.14.camel@cutter> <437B9A58.4020707@redhat.com> <1132174489.17438.22.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <437B9E66.6080303@redhat.com> Hi >>With the content moving over, the more important point is probably the >>difference in perception with hosting Fedora related mailings lists in >>fedoraproject.org as opposed to redhat.com. Now to tackle bugzilla! >> >> > >umm, no. > >let's not mess with moving bugzilla. > > That was more of a tongue in cheek comment. regards Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 16 21:39:11 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 13:39:11 -0800 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132172722.17438.10.camel@cutter> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> <20051116210720.M10678@fedoranews.org> <1132172722.17438.10.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1132177151.3572.103.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 15:25 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > > I agree with the idea of having our own list server at fedoraproject.org. > > > > Redirecting from redhat.com is also good idea but I don't mind creating > > a new account on a new list server either. > > What do we get from having another mailman instance at > fedoraproject.org? Just the domain on the lists? i) Distinct domain, better branding, separation of secular and corporate. ii) Ability to control lists from within the project, instead of being beholden to a sponsor's overworked IS team[1] iii) Creating a public website request methodology to allow people to form e.g. international, language, or other topic based lists more easily. There still needs to be a level of IS-type control from within Fedora, we don't want to be the SourceForge of any-mailing-list-you-can-dream- of. This idea was in response to seeing people wanting to open new mailing lists but not knowing what to do. I'll bet that I'm one of about 15% of Fedora involved Red Hat employees who knows how to request a mailing list. Why should I be the gateway to mailing lists? Anyway, it's an idea that I am still mulling over, I'm not all decided or nothing. - Karsten [1] By this I mean, _every_ IS team is overworked. :) -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From toshio at tiki-lounge.com Thu Nov 17 01:34:06 2005 From: toshio at tiki-lounge.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:34:06 -0800 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1132191246.23962.28.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 12:02 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > What do you think about hosting Mailman through fp.org? Maybe a > separate host at lists.fedoraproject.org, but have the MX forward from > fp.org proper. > > This way we could open the process of creating new lists to people who > do not have @redhat.com addresses. > > We could migrate over the current lists and have everything redirect > through www.redhat.com? Or just have new lists come up there? > > It will be painful to change people's habits. Is it worth it at this > point? Or better now than later? > I find it very convenient to have them all hosted on redhat. This allows setting passwords and other mailman administrivia (changing email addresses if my mail server goes down, etc) in a single location. Changing to fedoraproject.org would only be one more mailman server I'd have to work with but still, every little bit helps :-) -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Thu Nov 17 01:47:39 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:47:39 -0600 Subject: moving Mailman In-Reply-To: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1132171359.3572.95.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <437BE13B.3010505@n-man.com> I think that our long term goal should be to get as much as possible (including mailing lists) off of the redhat.com namespace. I'm sure that no matter what it will be quite a headache to move so much, but if we are going to do it, now is the time. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 17 06:22:57 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 11:52:57 +0530 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination Message-ID: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> Hi I heard there is a need to set specific agenda to do this better. So here is my ideas. * If you speak a language not represented well in Fedora, Introduce yourself and get involved. * If you are running a Fedora i18n website. Introduce yourself * If you speak the language where a Fedora i18n website, already exists, contact the web administrators, ask them to sign up in this list and introduce themselves. Getting everyone running the several different Fedora related community websites in the same page is the primary goal at this point. We are looking for ideas on how to coordinate efficiently with the various community websites. I would like to hear your suggestions and opinions on this. Things you can do: * There is a need for the Fedora related content - website, documentation, announcements etc to be translated and made available in as much as languages as possible to reach the widest amount of audience. * You can also be a Fedora Ambassador for your country or region to represent or organize Fedora related events, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Ambassadors for details. regards Rahul From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Fri Nov 18 12:23:29 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:23:29 +0900 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination In-Reply-To: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> References: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> Message-ID: <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> Hi, Since this list is not listed in http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/ and fedoraproject.org doesn't support localised web browsers https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=170892 people finding this list is, I believe, slim. http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list may be more appropriate. I believe what we really need to focus now is i18nize a way to participate in fedora and let fedora's message reach everyone in this world. To achieve this, we need ambassadors who can be contacted by local community and set up i18ned news.fedoraproject.org. (I believe news.fedoraproject.org really needs to be build with i18n in mind.) English guide of joining fedora is already very confusing, i18nizing this will be hard. We need to make this part of information modularized and separate from each project. I believe this also helps English speaking people find out joining information more easily as well. Setting up information of fedora information for local community should be handled by local community web site. There are materials in fedoraproject.org usefull for local community, but not all of them are necessary. Local people know where informations are, and they are much better at building local web sites. -Yoshihior Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > I heard there is a need to set specific agenda to do this better. So > here is my ideas. > > * If you speak a language not represented well in Fedora, Introduce > yourself and get involved. > * If you are running a Fedora i18n website. Introduce yourself > * If you speak the language where a Fedora i18n website, already exists, > contact the web administrators, ask them to sign up in this list and > introduce themselves. > > Getting everyone running the several different Fedora related community > websites in the same page is the primary goal at this point. We are > looking for ideas on how to coordinate efficiently with the various > community websites. I would like to hear your suggestions and opinions > on this. > > Things you can do: > > * There is a need for the Fedora related content - website, > documentation, announcements etc to be translated and made available in > as much as languages as possible to reach the widest amount of audience. > > * You can also be a Fedora Ambassador for your country or region to > represent or organize Fedora related events, see > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Ambassadors for details. > > > regards > Rahul > From nman64 at n-man.com Fri Nov 18 15:31:06 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:31:06 -0600 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination In-Reply-To: <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> References: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> Message-ID: <437DF3BA.4030203@n-man.com> Yoshihiro Totaka wrote: > Hi, > > Since this list is not listed in > http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/ It is now. :-) > and fedoraproject.org doesn't support localised web browsers > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=170892 I don't see how this is specifically related to this matter. > people finding this list is, I believe, slim. > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list may be more > appropriate. This list has a different scope, and serves a slightly different role in i18n. It is more appropriate for coordinating international website development. > > I believe what we really need to focus now is i18nize a way to > participate in fedora and let fedora's message reach everyone in this > world. To achieve this, we need ambassadors who can be contacted by > local community and set up i18ned news.fedoraproject.org. (I believe > news.fedoraproject.org really needs to be build with i18n in mind.) > English guide of joining fedora is already very confusing, i18nizing > this will be hard. We need to make this part of information > modularized and separate from each project. I believe this also helps > English speaking people find out joining information more easily as well. While i18n can be summarized as a single goal across many projects, these are smaller projects that must be tackled individually. While we build an international community of Ambassadors, we also need to provide consistent material and a uniform message through community websites. That is one of the primary goals in this list. As we move forward, these many important aspects of i18n will be dealt with, but we can't get hung up on each one due to the desire to work on the others. > > Setting up information of fedora information for local community > should be handled by local community web site. There are materials in > fedoraproject.org usefull for local community, but not all of them are > necessary. Local people know where informations are, and they are much > better at building local web sites. > > -Yoshihior > We should only compartmentalize as needed. We need to keep our focus on providing everything we can through formal websites, relying on local websites to provide only the local information that the formal sites cannot. We must work with the community to present a united front, bringing a consistent message and appearance to the best of our abilities. Avoiding duplication and confusion are important, and scattering information about needlessly can create problems. That is the point here: coordination and focus. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Fri Nov 18 19:33:59 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:33:59 +0900 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination In-Reply-To: <437DF3BA.4030203@n-man.com> References: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> <437DF3BA.4030203@n-man.com> Message-ID: <437E2CA7.5000300@yahoo.co.jp> Patrick Barnes wrote: > Yoshihiro Totaka wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>Since this list is not listed in >>http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/communicate/ > > It is now. :-) > Thanx. >>and fedoraproject.org doesn't support localised web browsers >>https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=170892 > > I don't see how this is specifically related to this matter. > Since the list was listed only in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate and I believe front page is the page links to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate If someone can not access the front page, then s/he probably will not be able find this list. >>people finding this list is, I believe, slim. >>http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list may be more >>appropriate. > > This list has a different scope, and serves a slightly different role in > i18n. It is more appropriate for coordinating international website > development. > >>I believe what we really need to focus now is i18nize a way to >>participate in fedora and let fedora's message reach everyone in this >>world. To achieve this, we need ambassadors who can be contacted by >>local community and set up i18ned news.fedoraproject.org. (I believe >>news.fedoraproject.org really needs to be build with i18n in mind.) >>English guide of joining fedora is already very confusing, i18nizing >>this will be hard. We need to make this part of information >>modularized and separate from each project. I believe this also helps >>English speaking people find out joining information more easily as well. > > While i18n can be summarized as a single goal across many projects, > these are smaller projects that must be tackled individually. While we > build an international community of Ambassadors, we also need to provide > consistent material and a uniform message through community websites. > That is one of the primary goals in this list. As we move forward, > these many important aspects of i18n will be dealt with, but we can't > get hung up on each one due to the desire to work on the others. > Yes, I agree with you that consistent message is very important. However we probably need to share the perception that i18n resource is unfortunately limited. We will have FC5T1 very soon, but I have to wonder how many languages will have proper release notes. We also have documentation project creating very high quality documents such as SELinux FAQ, RPM guide etc etc. Since Fedora embraces many poorly documented breeding edge technologies such as SELinux and Xen, many other distributions' Linux users are relying on Fedora's documentation. We need to focus our translator's resources on these quality documents. Being said that, what i18n can help fedora project as whole at this level is to keep local talents well informed and help locals involved in projects. Involvement of locals will ultimately result in i18n of the project. However fedora's way for seeking people to participate has actually been very confusing. Since fedora is a community project and we are looking for community participation, keep community well informed and helping them to involved is one of the key area fedora needs to focus on. Each project writing a guide how to get involved and how we can help on wiki or announcing in the list is not really effective. I believe http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpWanted could be separate web site or expanded. Each fedora project could have "human resource manager" to write and update "how to get involved", what sort of things they are working on, and what kind of talents or tests they are looking for on the page or site. (This could be part of news.fedoraproject.org as well, since this way news and each project will be connected more strongly.) >>Setting up information of fedora information for local community >>should be handled by local community web site. There are materials in >>fedoraproject.org usefull for local community, but not all of them are >>necessary. Local people know where informations are, and they are much >>better at building local web sites. >> >>-Yoshihior >> > > We should only compartmentalize as needed. We need to keep our focus on > providing everything we can through formal websites, relying on local > websites to provide only the local information that the formal sites > cannot. We must work with the community to present a united front, > bringing a consistent message and appearance to the best of our > abilities. Avoiding duplication and confusion are important, and > scattering information about needlessly can create problems. That is > the point here: coordination and focus. > > Yes, I agree that coordination and focus is really required here. If i18n of the formal site can be done, I believe that is wonderful thing. If fedoraproject.org could be translated automatically by google, I think having i18n of formal web site is the right idea. However reality is not like that yet, and we do not have many resources to i18n. Keeping web site translation up-to-date really requires huge resource. We really need to focus our i18n resource here. Could-be-outdated, partly-translated formal web site is not what I want. I am willing to help build formal web site, but I don't think we have enough resource. To help fedora ambassadors, I believe we could focus our i18n effort on 3 areas. (i.e., Fedora Doc translation, news, and helpwanted.) Afterall, what could fedora ambassadors do with broken formal web site? At least, currect local community site is not broken. -Yoshihiro From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 18 19:48:09 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 01:18:09 +0530 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination In-Reply-To: <437E2CA7.5000300@yahoo.co.jp> References: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> <437DF3BA.4030203@n-man.com> <437E2CA7.5000300@yahoo.co.jp> Message-ID: <437E2FF9.6040005@redhat.com> Hi > Since Fedora embraces many poorly documented breeding edge > technologies such as SELinux and Xen, many other distributions' Linux > users are relying on Fedora's documentation. We need to focus our > translator's resources on these quality documents. Xen, I might agree with you. SELinux is neither bleeding edge nor poorly documented now. regards Rahul From tchung at fedoranews.org Fri Nov 18 22:55:58 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:55:58 -0800 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki Message-ID: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> Did you know our MoinMoin Wiki supports RSS? According to HelpOnActions at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpOnActions "rss_rc: generate a RSS feed of RecentChanges." That's good. We can now monitor RecentChanges via RSS. But did you also know you can target certain pages with following extension? http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ExtensionProposals/RssLocalFilter "The current MoinMoin RSS feeds all the changes in the target site. But someone has interests on a part of pages only, and does not want to get feeds for the entire changes in the site." "Using this modification, you can limit the RSS feed for a target page and its subpages only." How about it? Can we implement this on fedoraproject.org? -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Nov 18 22:18:25 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:18:25 -0500 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki In-Reply-To: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> References: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 14:55 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > Did you know our MoinMoin Wiki supports RSS? > > According to HelpOnActions at: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpOnActions > "rss_rc: generate a RSS feed of RecentChanges." > > That's good. We can now monitor RecentChanges via RSS. > But did you also know you can target certain pages with following extension? > http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ExtensionProposals/RssLocalFilter > > "The current MoinMoin RSS feeds all the changes in the target site. But someone has > interests on a part of pages only, and does not want to get feeds for the entire changes > in the site." > > "Using this modification, you can limit the RSS feed for a target page and its subpages > only." > > How about it? Can we implement this on fedoraproject.org? Multiple questions: Is there a large demand for this option? What's the demand we're meeting with this change? I guess I'm mostly concerned about patching moin core for this item if it is not being considered for mainstream use. The nice thing about the html parser add-on is that it is just that - an add-on - not directly affecting anything in the core. Alternatively, maybe you could take those changes out to a separate extension so that we could package it as an add-on extension only. something like action=page_rss I've pinged some folks around moin devel to see if there's going to be a 1.3.6 and if that patch will be included or could be included in core. -sv From tchung at fedoranews.org Fri Nov 18 23:27:40 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:27:40 -0800 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki In-Reply-To: <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> References: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <20051118231841.M48270@fedoranews.org> On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:18:25 -0500, seth vidal wrote > Multiple questions: > Is there a large demand for this option? What's the demand we're meeting > with this change? > > I guess I'm mostly concerned about patching moin core for this item if > it is not being considered for mainstream use. > > The nice thing about the html parser add-on is that it is just that - an > add-on - not directly affecting anything in the core. > > Alternatively, maybe you could take those changes out to a separate > extension so that we could package it as an add-on extension only. > > something like action=page_rss > > I've pinged some folks around moin devel to see if there's going to be a > 1.3.6 and if that patch will be included or could be included in core. > > -sv Here is my goal for this feature. I'm not sure how far we're at for news.fedoraproject.org proposal but, if we could enable "RSS Local" extension, we could start creating wiki pages with some contents including the latest news and security updates then we could start instruct users how to add RSS for our news.fedoraproject.org for their news aggregator. -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Nov 18 23:25:34 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:25:34 -0500 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki In-Reply-To: <20051118231841.M48270@fedoranews.org> References: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> <20051118231841.M48270@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1132356334.31873.1.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 15:27 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:18:25 -0500, seth vidal wrote > > Multiple questions: > > Is there a large demand for this option? What's the demand we're meeting > > with this change? > > > > I guess I'm mostly concerned about patching moin core for this item if > > it is not being considered for mainstream use. > > > > The nice thing about the html parser add-on is that it is just that - an > > add-on - not directly affecting anything in the core. > > > > Alternatively, maybe you could take those changes out to a separate > > extension so that we could package it as an add-on extension only. > > > > something like action=page_rss > > > > I've pinged some folks around moin devel to see if there's going to be a > > 1.3.6 and if that patch will be included or could be included in core. > > > > -sv > > Here is my goal for this feature. > > I'm not sure how far we're at for news.fedoraproject.org proposal but, > if we could enable "RSS Local" extension, we could start creating wiki pages with some > contents including the latest news and security updates then we could start instruct > users how to add RSS for our news.fedoraproject.org for their news aggregator. > two ideas: 1. http://labix.org/irss addon to moin to do in-line rss for any given page 2. setup planet plus http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/ to start making the planet aggregates more searchable and draw things out from more feeds more easily. thoughts? -sv > -- > Thomas Chung > FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) > "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" > From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Nov 18 23:27:24 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:27:24 -0500 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki In-Reply-To: <1132356334.31873.1.camel@cutter> References: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> <20051118231841.M48270@fedoranews.org> <1132356334.31873.1.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1132356444.31873.4.camel@cutter> > two ideas: > > 1. http://labix.org/irss addon to moin to do in-line rss for any given > page > 2. setup planet plus http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/ to start > making the planet aggregates more searchable and draw things out from > more feeds more easily. > > thoughts? > -sv > one more thing - I've been talking with the lead developer on the django project who happens to also be a fedora user. Take a look at djangoproject.com - but not necessarily at what django is - look at the structure of the site, the features it has, etc. then look at: http://code.djangoproject.com/browser/djangoproject.com that might be a place to work from. -sv From tchung at fedoranews.org Sat Nov 19 00:31:20 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:31:20 -0800 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki In-Reply-To: <1132356334.31873.1.camel@cutter> References: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> <20051118231841.M48270@fedoranews.org> <1132356334.31873.1.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <20051119002934.M9142@fedoranews.org> On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:25:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote > two ideas: > > 1. http://labix.org/irss addon to moin to do in-line rss for any given > page > 2. setup planet plus http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/ to start > making the planet aggregates more searchable and draw things out from > more feeds more easily. > > thoughts? > -sv Planet Plus sounds interesting. Is that what Planet Gentoo[1] is using? [1] http://planet.gentoo.org/ -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Nov 18 23:37:16 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:37:16 -0500 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki In-Reply-To: <20051119002934.M9142@fedoranews.org> References: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> <20051118231841.M48270@fedoranews.org> <1132356334.31873.1.camel@cutter> <20051119002934.M9142@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1132357036.31873.7.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 16:31 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:25:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote > > two ideas: > > > > 1. http://labix.org/irss addon to moin to do in-line rss for any given > > page > > 2. setup planet plus http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/ to start > > making the planet aggregates more searchable and draw things out from > > more feeds more easily. > > > > thoughts? > > -sv > > Planet Plus sounds interesting. > > Is that what Planet Gentoo[1] is using? > > [1] http://planet.gentoo.org/ > no, I think the mainline planet code is what most all of the planet* sites are using. Heck, they even link to the planetplanet.org website from that page. What made you think it was planet plus? Planet plus was just recently announced and it will hopefully be merged into the mainline planet code before long. -sv From tchung at fedoranews.org Sat Nov 19 00:37:35 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:37:35 -0800 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki In-Reply-To: <1132357036.31873.7.camel@cutter> References: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> <20051118231841.M48270@fedoranews.org> <1132356334.31873.1.camel@cutter> <20051119002934.M9142@fedoranews.org> <1132357036.31873.7.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <20051119003619.M32906@fedoranews.org> On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:37:16 -0500, seth vidal wrote > On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 16:31 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:25:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote > > > two ideas: > > > > > > 1. http://labix.org/irss addon to moin to do in-line rss for any given > > > page > > > 2. setup planet plus http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/ to start > > > making the planet aggregates more searchable and draw things out from > > > more feeds more easily. > > > > > > thoughts? > > > -sv > > > > Planet Plus sounds interesting. > > > > Is that what Planet Gentoo[1] is using? > > > > [1] http://planet.gentoo.org/ > > > > no, I think the mainline planet code is what most all of the planet* > sites are using. Heck, they even link to the planetplanet.org website > from that page. What made you think it was planet plus? > > Planet plus was just recently announced and it will hopefully be merged > into the mainline planet code before long. > > -sv There is a link for "live demo" at http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/ points to http://gentooexperimental.org:9898/ -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From covex at ahoj.fsik.cvut.cz Fri Nov 18 23:52:42 2005 From: covex at ahoj.fsik.cvut.cz (Adam Pribyl) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:52:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: fedora.cz Message-ID: I am maintaining small fedora site on http://www.fedora.cz/ for Czech fedora comunity. I missed any global attemp for internationalized content of web sites, so we started on our own. I welcome any general activity in this direction. Adam Pribyl From tchung at fedoranews.org Sat Nov 19 00:56:07 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:56:07 -0800 Subject: fedora.cz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051119005528.M9223@fedoranews.org> On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 00:52:42 +0100 (CET), Adam Pribyl wrote > I am maintaining small fedora site on http://www.fedora.cz/ for Czech > fedora comunity. I missed any global attemp for internationalized content > of web sites, so we started on our own. I welcome any general activity in > this direction. > > Adam Pribyl > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list Thank you Adam, Czech Fedora Community Site has been added. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sat Nov 19 02:59:04 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:59:04 -0500 Subject: RSS feeds for MoinMoin Wiki In-Reply-To: <20051119003619.M32906@fedoranews.org> References: <20051118224926.M51626@fedoranews.org> <1132352306.29189.68.camel@cutter> <20051118231841.M48270@fedoranews.org> <1132356334.31873.1.camel@cutter> <20051119002934.M9142@fedoranews.org> <1132357036.31873.7.camel@cutter> <20051119003619.M32906@fedoranews.org> Message-ID: <1132369144.31873.9.camel@cutter> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 16:37 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:37:16 -0500, seth vidal wrote > > On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 16:31 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > > > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:25:34 -0500, seth vidal wrote > > > > two ideas: > > > > > > > > 1. http://labix.org/irss addon to moin to do in-line rss for any given > > > > page > > > > 2. setup planet plus http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/ to start > > > > making the planet aggregates more searchable and draw things out from > > > > more feeds more easily. > > > > > > > > thoughts? > > > > -sv > > > > > > Planet Plus sounds interesting. > > > > > > Is that what Planet Gentoo[1] is using? > > > > > > [1] http://planet.gentoo.org/ > > > > > > > no, I think the mainline planet code is what most all of the planet* > > sites are using. Heck, they even link to the planetplanet.org website > > from that page. What made you think it was planet plus? > > > > Planet plus was just recently announced and it will hopefully be merged > > into the mainline planet code before long. > > > > -sv > > There is a link for "live demo" at http://planetplus.python-hosting.com/ > points to http://gentooexperimental.org:9898/ > which, you'll note, is not planet.gentoo.org :) but yes, it looks like they're testing it out. -sv From fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp Sat Nov 19 03:34:08 2005 From: fedoradesktop at yahoo.co.jp (Yoshihiro Totaka) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:34:08 +0900 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination In-Reply-To: <437E2FF9.6040005@redhat.com> References: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> <437DF3BA.4030203@n-man.com> <437E2CA7.5000300@yahoo.co.jp> <437E2FF9.6040005@redhat.com> Message-ID: <437E9D30.9000703@yahoo.co.jp> Hi Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > >> Since Fedora embraces many poorly documented breeding edge >> technologies such as SELinux and Xen, many other distributions' Linux >> users are relying on Fedora's documentation. We need to focus our >> translator's resources on these quality documents. > > > Xen, I might agree with you. SELinux is neither bleeding edge nor poorly > documented now. > Yes, FC3 SELinux is now well documented. FC4's SELinux is not really different from FC3. However with FC5, MCS and MLS stuffs might be implemented. It seems FC5 SELinux will have reference-policy instead of targeted-policy. (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-selinux-list/2005-November/msg00111.html) Existing documents won't be able to cope with FC5 or FC6 SELinux. People will be looking Fedora for documentation again. Fedora is on breeding edge and fedora's documentation really helps people adopt new technologies. Technology might be mature when Fedora implement the technology, but it often lacks documentation. As long as Fedora is the distribution which introduce new technologies to mass, fedora documentation's importance will never go away. -Yoshihiro From stuart at elsn.org Sat Nov 19 12:05:04 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:05:04 +0000 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination In-Reply-To: <437E9D30.9000703@yahoo.co.jp> References: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> <437DF3BA.4030203@n-man.com> <437E2CA7.5000300@yahoo.co.jp> <437E2FF9.6040005@redhat.com> <437E9D30.9000703@yahoo.co.jp> Message-ID: <1132401904.2870.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-11-19 at 12:34 +0900, Yoshihiro Totaka wrote: > Hi > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > >> Since Fedora embraces many poorly documented breeding edge > >> technologies such as SELinux and Xen, many other distributions' Linux > >> users are relying on Fedora's documentation. We need to focus our > >> translator's resources on these quality documents. Sidenote: We don't get much feedback from users on documents, beyond a very small number of bug reports, and a few private e-mails. I personally don't have a clear picture of how the material is being used, or how useful it is, because data points are too few. The only generalisations I'd make are that the feedback items that I've seen are typically from people with some level of Linux experience, and a fair proportion seem to work in institutions (academia, research, military), but that probably partly reflects the types of people most likely to give feedback. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 12:25:30 2005 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:25:30 +0800 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination In-Reply-To: <1132401904.2870.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> <437DF3BA.4030203@n-man.com> <437E2CA7.5000300@yahoo.co.jp> <437E2FF9.6040005@redhat.com> <437E9D30.9000703@yahoo.co.jp> <1132401904.2870.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <76e72f800511190425m374e8cd8y@mail.gmail.com> 2005/11/19, Stuart Ellis : > Sidenote: We don't get much feedback from users on documents, beyond a > very small number of bug reports, and a few private e-mails. I > personally don't have a clear picture of how the material is being used, > or how useful it is, because data points are too few. The only > generalisations I'd make are that the feedback items that I've seen are > typically from people with some level of Linux experience, and a fair > proportion seem to work in institutions (academia, research, military), > but that probably partly reflects the types of people most likely to > give feedback. > When I'm translating the document I do see a lot of places that need to be fixed or modified, but after I have translated them I'm tired of go back and create a patch, because there are more in the translated work. I think I need some push, :p Talking about users, readers, "users don't read." and they are more interested in finishing their works insteaded of commit bugs. Part of the reason that I do translations is because I want to be more familiar with the documents. If I just "read" them, I can easily ignore any thing important, and I won't do carefully reviews or spellchecks at all. In fact I'm not a good student :) I think there should be another group called re-viewers or so. When I have posted my translation, I have to require (or force) my best friend Storm Lee to do the reviews. I don't expect to receive any review idea from the others. Readers may not have spare time to do reviews or don't want to bother to commit bugs, who knows. -- bbbush ^_^ From stuart at elsn.org Sat Nov 19 13:57:11 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:57:11 +0000 Subject: Fedora i18n coordination In-Reply-To: <76e72f800511190425m374e8cd8y@mail.gmail.com> References: <437C21C1.7090001@redhat.com> <437DC7C1.6070200@yahoo.co.jp> <437DF3BA.4030203@n-man.com> <437E2CA7.5000300@yahoo.co.jp> <437E2FF9.6040005@redhat.com> <437E9D30.9000703@yahoo.co.jp> <1132401904.2870.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <76e72f800511190425m374e8cd8y@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1132408631.2870.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-11-19 at 20:25 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > When I'm translating the document I do see a lot of places that need > to be fixed or modified, but after I have translated them I'm tired of > go back and create a patch, because there are more in the translated > work. I think I need some push, :p For both docs and Wiki pages, I'm actually happy with a one line "this looks wrong", and suggested text is a bonus. Bugzilla and patches are developer tools, and IMO they are not a perfect fit for docs and web sites as they require too much of the reader/user. > Talking about users, readers, "users don't read." and they are more > interested in finishing their works insteaded of commit bugs. Part of > the reason that I do translations is because I want to be more > familiar with the documents. If I just "read" them, I can easily > ignore any thing important, and I won't do carefully reviews or > spellchecks at all. In fact I'm not a good student :) I write for a similar reason :) ...to learn how something works. > I think there should be another group called re-viewers or so. When I > have posted my translation, I have to require (or force) my best > friend Storm Lee to do the reviews. I don't expect to receive any > review idea from the others. Readers may not have spare time to do > reviews or don't want to bother to commit bugs, who knows. This probably ought to be discussed further on the docs or translation lists - please do post your ideas. More reviewing would definitely be good. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Sat Nov 19 19:37:41 2005 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (seth vidal) Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:37:41 -0500 Subject: new features coming in moin 1.5 Message-ID: <1132429061.1843.12.camel@cutter> hi folks, the moin developers are working on a 1.5.0 final. The betas have been out for a little while now and they appear to be stabilizing. It's not ready yet and probably won't be until well after the holidays but I wanted people to start looking at things for it: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinTodo/Release_1.5 The most interesting features, to me, is the new editor and a couple of new parsers - specifically an irssi log parser. Could be useful for posting meeting texts, etc. I'm going to do some spelunking into how we might be able to tie into the fedora accounts system, even if we just maintain an account->wikiname map and authN to the FAS that would be a help. If anyone else wants to hunt around a bit, please do. -sv -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chitlesh at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 14:54:55 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:54:55 +0000 Subject: Fedora International community websites In-Reply-To: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> References: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511200654u3895ec53w91f3567f1c64d474@mail.gmail.com> On 11/13/05, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > The dragon arises again. I pointed earlier that there has been a growing > number of Fedora related international websites which are completely > disconnected from the each other and the formal websites. > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-September/msg00203.html > > Can someone speaking these languages contact the respective website > administrators and ask them to sign up in this list and introduce > themselves to get them all in the same page. We need to coordinate > better on this. What are the major issues to deal with? > > regards > Rahul > > Hello there, Ive designed a wallpaper for 1024x768 screen and included most of the international sites mentioned on the give link. This wallpaper can be found at http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31557 regards, Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Sun Nov 20 15:06:25 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:36:25 +0530 Subject: Fedora International community websites In-Reply-To: <13dbfe4f0511200654u3895ec53w91f3567f1c64d474@mail.gmail.com> References: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0511200654u3895ec53w91f3567f1c64d474@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <438090F1.2070800@redhat.com> Hi > > Hello there, > Ive designed a wallpaper for 1024x768 screen and included most of the > international sites mentioned on the give link. > This wallpaper can be found at > http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=31557 Saw your post to the Fedora Forum. If you find any not yet added to the list, feel free to do so http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate Administrators of these websites are requested to add their contact details briefly to the above wiki. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing regards Rahul From chitlesh at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 15:33:50 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:33:50 +0000 Subject: Fedora International community websites In-Reply-To: <438090F1.2070800@redhat.com> References: <4376A2EA.8040100@redhat.com> <13dbfe4f0511200654u3895ec53w91f3567f1c64d474@mail.gmail.com> <438090F1.2070800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511200733r497705c5yeee570e28d094ae8@mail.gmail.com> > > Saw your post to the Fedora Forum. If you find any not yet added to the > list, feel free to do so > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate > After visiting the above link, ive noticed there are some which are not included in my wallpaper. I will include then in my next "release" :p Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Nov 20 21:06:19 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:06:19 -0500 Subject: wiki frontpage Message-ID: <1132520780.4340.15.camel@cutter> Hi All, I made the change suggested in this bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=170892 so people coming to this page from other languages wouldn't get a useless page. The new front page is named FedoraMain. Let me know if you see any problems with this. I've not removed any data from anywhere so we should be quite safe. -sv From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 02:29:42 2005 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:29:42 +0800 Subject: Where can I get a 100x100 transparent PNG or EPS version of fedora logo? Message-ID: <76e72f800511211829p64bd6543n@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Where can I get a 100x100 transparent PNG or EPS version of fedora logo? Thanks! -- bbbush ^_^ From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Tue Nov 22 07:55:55 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:55:55 -0500 Subject: Where can I get a 100x100 transparent PNG or EPS version of fedora logo? In-Reply-To: <76e72f800511211829p64bd6543n@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800511211829p64bd6543n@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1132646155.1913.1.camel@ignacio.lan> On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 10:29 +0800, Yuan Yijun wrote: > Where can I get a 100x100 transparent PNG or EPS version of fedora logo? Thanks! You can get a 96x96 transparent PNG in the fedora-logos package in Rawhide. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gdk at redhat.com Tue Nov 22 15:30:59 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:30:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Where can I get a 100x100 transparent PNG or EPS version of fedora logo? In-Reply-To: <76e72f800511211829p64bd6543n@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800511211829p64bd6543n@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Please hold off on use of the new Fedora Logo until it clears legal sometime in early December. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Tue, 22 Nov 2005, Yuan Yijun wrote: > Hi, > > Where can I get a 100x100 transparent PNG or EPS version of fedora logo? Thanks! > > > -- > bbbush ^_^ > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > From stratus at acm.org Wed Nov 23 19:05:01 2005 From: stratus at acm.org (Gustavo Franco) Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:05:01 -0200 Subject: Fedora Wiki (moinmoin) Theme. Message-ID: <4384BD5D.4060307@acm.org> Hi list, I would like to ask if there's a way to download the wiki theme ? FYI, #fedora-wiki at freenode: Is there a way to download the fedora wiki theme? stratus, its not available for download but could be. post to the fedora-websites-list mether, i'll do thank you. Thanks in advance, Gustavo Franco - ps: Please Cc: me, i'm not subscribed to fedora-websites-list From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Thu Nov 24 07:17:16 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 02:17:16 -0500 Subject: Fedora Wiki (moinmoin) Theme. In-Reply-To: <4384BD5D.4060307@acm.org> References: <4384BD5D.4060307@acm.org> Message-ID: <1132816636.9904.0.camel@cutter> On Wed, 2005-11-23 at 17:05 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote: > Hi list, > > I would like to ask if there's a way to download the wiki theme ? > > FYI, #fedora-wiki at freenode: > Is there a way to download the fedora wiki theme? > stratus, its not available for download but could be. post to > the fedora-websites-list > mether, i'll do thank you. > > Thanks in advance, > Gustavo Franco - > ps: Please Cc: me, i'm not subscribed to fedora-websites-list hrishi and dfong have it either of them should be able to send you the zip. -sv From hballal at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 18:13:32 2005 From: hballal at gmail.com (Hrishikesh Ballal) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:13:32 -0500 Subject: Fedora front page Message-ID: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> All, Following is a URL for the prototype front page: http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-tables/ It is based off a design by Diana. I am working on a different design too but we dont think that it will work out as well as this one. I am not sure if we have decided about removing the wiki off the front page. I support that idea. I think It will give us a lot of flexibility. I also had a conversation with Diana about adding "Site Navigation" in the wiki (FedoraMain > Marketing > YouAreHere) . Diana feels that it should be on top of the site. I am going to try to put it right after the "search" box, to the left. I will modify the template and mail it to Seth. If you want to request a screenshot before we commit these changes, please let me know. If we decide to get rid of the wiki as a front page, and if there are no changes on the prototype above, we can use it the way it is. If we decide to use the wiki as the front page, I will need to investigate how we can implement this on the wiki and will need some help. I mailed one of the MoinMoin developers and asked if we can have individual CSS for pages. If anyone knows / has experience with it please let me know. Hrishi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ivazquez at ivazquez.net Thu Nov 24 18:18:15 2005 From: ivazquez at ivazquez.net (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:18:15 -0500 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1132856295.3602.12.camel@ignacio.lan> On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 13:13 -0500, Hrishikesh Ballal wrote: > All, > Following is a URL for the prototype front page: > > http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-tables/ Very nice. The main thing that pops out is that the third column has "Links" and the right-hand side has "Fedora Links". Perhaps they should be unified. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams http://fedora.ivazquez.net/ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 38028b72 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tchung at fedoranews.org Thu Nov 24 18:23:49 2005 From: tchung at fedoranews.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 10:23:49 -0800 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051124181724.M81031@fedoranews.org> On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:13:32 -0500, Hrishikesh Ballal wrote > All, > Following is a URL for the prototype front page: > > http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-tables/ > > It is based off a design by Diana. I am working on a different design > too but we dont think that it will work out as well as this one. I am > not sure if we have decided about removing the wiki off the front page. > I support that idea. I think It will give us a lot of flexibility. > > I also had a conversation with Diana about adding "Site Navigation" in > the wiki (FedoraMain > Marketing > YouAreHere) . Diana feels that it > should be on top of the site. I am going to try to put it right after > the "search" box, to the left. I will modify the template and mail it to > Seth. If you want to request a screenshot before we commit these > changes, please let me know. > > If we decide to get rid of the wiki as a front page, and if there are no > changes on the prototype above, we can use it the way it is. If we > decide to use the wiki as the front page, I will need to investigate how > we can implement this on the wiki and will need some help. I mailed one > of the MoinMoin developers and asked if we can have individual CSS for > pages. If anyone knows / has experience with it please let me know. > > Hrishi Hi Hrishi, Many people in US are the road due to Thanksgiving Holidays. I myself will be moving to a new home this weekend. I would suggest to bring this subject next week. In fact, we should have our own regular meeting on #fedora-wiki -- Thomas Chung FedoraNEWS.ORG (http://fedoranews.org) "..where you can free your knowledge for your free community!" From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 24 18:23:50 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:53:50 +0530 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> Hrishikesh Ballal wrote: >All, >Following is a URL for the prototype front page: > >http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-tables/ > >It is based off a design by Diana. I am working on a different design >too but we dont think that it will work out as well as this one. I am >not sure if we have decided about removing the wiki off the front page. >I support that idea. I think It will give us a lot of flexibility. > > Thank you for working on this. My suggestins: * Drop the "Get Fedora" title. * Move the links to the side. Split it up into places vs projects. * Split the screen below into news and development. * Search should be available on top. >I also had a conversation with Diana about adding "Site Navigation" in >the wiki (FedoraMain > Marketing > YouAreHere) . Diana feels that it >should be on top of the site. I am going to try to put it right after >the "search" box, to the left. I will modify the template and mail it to >Seth. If you want to request a screenshot before we commit these >changes, please let me know. > > Prefer to see a screenshot if it isnt too much trouble. >If we decide to get rid of the wiki as a front page, and if there are no >changes on the prototype above, we can use it the way it is. If we >decide to use the wiki as the front page, I will need to investigate how >we can implement this on the wiki and will need some help. I mailed one >of the MoinMoin developers and asked if we can have individual CSS for >pages. If anyone knows / has experience with it please let me know. > > There is a html plugin for moinmoin which does that. I think Seth agreed to enable it in the site. Go ahead and use it if the wiki markup is a constraint. regards Rahul Ps: How is the revamp of http://fedora.redhat.com progressing Greg? From stickster at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 19:05:10 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 14:05:10 -0500 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132859110.10967.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 23:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hrishikesh Ballal wrote: > > >All, > >Following is a URL for the prototype front page: > > > >http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/fedoratstsite/fedora-main-tables/ > > > >It is based off a design by Diana. I am working on a different design > >too but we dont think that it will work out as well as this one. I am > >not sure if we have decided about removing the wiki off the front page. > >I support that idea. I think It will give us a lot of flexibility. > > > > > Thank you for working on this. My suggestins: > > * Drop the "Get Fedora" title. > * Move the links to the side. Split it up into places vs projects. > * Split the screen below into news and development. > * Search should be available on top. As for your first point, I think the "Get Fedora" was a direct response to the excellent success achieved by GetFirefox.com. It is a good way to implement the ideas that Alex Maier has championed in Fedora Marketing. If you look back to that list's archives for this issue, you'll find the source for this design element. I find the justification of both margins in the columns makes for very odd text spacing at different browser sizes. I would suggest going to plain left justification for better readability. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Thu Nov 24 19:16:37 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:46:37 +0530 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1132859110.10967.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1132859110.10967.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43861195.3050405@redhat.com> Hi >As for your first point, I think the "Get Fedora" was a direct response >to the excellent success achieved by GetFirefox.com. > getfirefox.com to my understanding exists to redirect to the appropriate place in a Mozilla website which includes several other products including the Mozilla suite and Bugzilla. Not sure that applies to Fedora very well. Many users would only expect a download link (which should be much more prominent) with a "Get Fedora" title. While releases notes and FAQ's does fall into it in a abstract way I dont think thats being conveyed very well. If its a title, it should be just the Fedora wordmark and logo and maybe a slogan. regards Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 20:16:26 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:16:26 -0500 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <43861195.3050405@redhat.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1132859110.10967.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43861195.3050405@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1132863387.10967.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 00:46 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > >As for your first point, I think the "Get Fedora" was a direct response > >to the excellent success achieved by GetFirefox.com. > > > getfirefox.com to my understanding exists to redirect to the > appropriate place in a Mozilla website which includes several other > products including the Mozilla suite and Bugzilla. Not sure that applies > to Fedora very well. Many users would only expect a download link (which > should be much more prominent) with a "Get Fedora" title. While releases > notes and FAQ's does fall into it in a abstract way I dont think thats > being conveyed very well. If its a title, it should be just the Fedora > wordmark and logo and maybe a slogan. Perhaps the idea then should be to have a shorter, punchier description of Fedora, then a large appropriately-colored "Get Fedora" link that arrives at an easy-to understand download page -- better than what the Wiki currently has, which is mind-boggling to people new to Linux. (I like the idea of the link saying "Get Fedora. Get [Infinite] Freedom." -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 25 12:45:29 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:15:29 +0530 Subject: Wiki format conversion Message-ID: <43870769.7070204@redhat.com> Hi Is there a way to save a page in the Fedora Project as a PDF, ODF and html file formats. Currently if we use copy over text from the wiki, we need to reformat it to include full URLs or nice bulletin lists for example. Would love to just prototype and collaborate on Fedora content using the wiki and then save the final versio as PDF for hands outs. regards Rahul From sundaram at redhat.com Fri Nov 25 20:25:17 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:55:17 +0530 Subject: Fedora task list manager Message-ID: <4387732D.4070202@redhat.com> Hi We currently maintain several task lists and agenda times within the wiki. This however seems a job thats better done by some sort of a web based task list manager that allows you to set milestones, status, owner etc. Anyone have ideas on what would be more efficient? Some of the task lists for a example of the current method we have been following to do this. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraExtrasSchedule http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule regards Rahul From gdk at redhat.com Fri Nov 25 21:14:08 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:14:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora task list manager In-Reply-To: <4387732D.4070202@redhat.com> References: <4387732D.4070202@redhat.com> Message-ID: Yes, I'd like to see this in a tasklist-based application of some sort. That gives us a bunch of wins -- but it also incurs some overhead. I'd love to see some examples of high-value, low-overhead alternatives. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > We currently maintain several task lists and agenda times within the > wiki. This however seems a job thats better done by some sort of a web > based task list manager that allows you to set milestones, status, owner > etc. Anyone have ideas on what would be more efficient? > > Some of the task lists for a example of the current method we have been > following to do this. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraExtrasSchedule > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule > > > regards > Rahul > > -- > Fedora-websites-list mailing list > Fedora-websites-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list > From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Nov 26 07:56:27 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 01:56:27 -0600 Subject: Updated sidebar-hiding patch Message-ID: <4388152B.3090504@n-man.com> I've update my sidebar-hiding patch to correct some issues in certain browsers. Some of these issues are also present in the stock rightsidebar theme that this patch is based upon. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/MoinMoin -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nman64 at n-man.com Sat Nov 26 09:25:14 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 03:25:14 -0600 Subject: Wiki format conversion In-Reply-To: <43870769.7070204@redhat.com> References: <43870769.7070204@redhat.com> Message-ID: <438829FA.8000300@n-man.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Is there a way to save a page in the Fedora Project as a PDF, ODF and > html file formats. Currently if we use copy over text from the wiki, > we need to reformat it to include full URLs or nice bulletin lists for > example. Would love to just prototype and collaborate on Fedora > content using the wiki and then save the final versio as PDF for hands > outs. > > regards > Rahul > > Under the 'More Actions' menu, select 'Show Print View'. You can then print to whatever formats your browser and print system support, or you can save it in HTML form and open it in another program (OpenOffice.org) and export it to other formats from there. If you think the theme/CSS for the print view needs improvement, write to this list. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Nov 27 16:45:12 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 08:45:12 -0800 Subject: which bug to bug? Message-ID: <1133109913.935.258.camel@erato.phig.org> Which bugzilla component should receive bugs for formal Fedora websites? FDP created the 'fedora-websites' component in response to a need to receive and channel such bugs. However, the Fedora Infrastructure group already existed. Should that have the component that receives website bug traffic? My main desire is to reduce confusion.[1] We've had some good beginnings using the FDP-based component, but I'm happy to move our group of bug responders over to the FI-based component. Thoughts? - Karsten [1] Speaking of which, anyone know how to remove or deprecate the 'fedora-docs' component in the 'Fedora Core' category? -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Nov 27 17:09:39 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:09:39 -0800 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1133111379.935.263.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 23:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hrishikesh Ballal wrote: > > > Thank you for working on this. My suggestins: > > * Drop the "Get Fedora" title. I'm OK with this staying _and_ being a direct link to a download page, which maybe gives individual instructions on e.g. using sha5 by detecting what browser and platform is hitting the page. If it stays, the period must be dropped from "Get Fedora.", as Rahul pointed out previously. > Ps: How is the revamp of http://fedora.redhat.com progressing Greg? Greg and Alex finished their run over the content, hope to see the changes in CVS soon. You'll hear/see when they hit. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Nov 27 17:16:27 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:16:27 -0800 Subject: Fedora task list manager In-Reply-To: <4387732D.4070202@redhat.com> References: <4387732D.4070202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1133111787.935.270.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2005-11-26 at 01:55 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > We currently maintain several task lists and agenda times within the > wiki. This however seems a job thats better done by some sort of a web > based task list manager that allows you to set milestones, status, owner > etc. Anyone have ideas on what would be more efficient? Although normally, I'm in favor of improving tools, I try to pay attention when I get internal warnings such as these: * If it ain't broke, don't fix it. * If it's easy enough as-is, don't make it more complex without an extremely clear benefit. These jumped to my stomach immediately, so here is the benefit of my instinct on the matter. The project manager in me says that this is pretty far down the list of infrastructure work that needs to be done. We have at least a dozen projects that have minimal functionality I'd like to see improved before I'd like to see YAWeb-based project management tool. _If_ we were to roll out a larger project management infrastructure to manage the whole project, and were to roll up all project committee's task lists into it, that would possible be worth it. But only if we had some people who were committed to using the PM software in a proper fashion. I'm not interested in more tools that won't be used. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 17:34:51 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:34:51 -0500 Subject: which bug to bug? In-Reply-To: <1133109913.935.258.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1133109913.935.258.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1133112891.7543.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 08:45 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > Which bugzilla component should receive bugs for formal Fedora websites? > > FDP created the 'fedora-websites' component in response to a need to > receive and channel such bugs. > > However, the Fedora Infrastructure group already existed. Should that > have the component that receives website bug traffic? Thanks for bringing this to the list where it belonged... I pinged Karsten in a Bugzilla entry earlier today about this issue. My feeling is that we don't want to make it harder for users to tell us about website problems, but we also want to help them put bugs in the right place when possible. > My main desire is to reduce confusion.[1] We've had some good > beginnings using the FDP-based component, but I'm happy to move our > group of bug responders over to the FI-based component. > [1] Speaking of which, anyone know how to remove or deprecate the > 'fedora-docs' component in the 'Fedora Core' category? I cc'd this to Dan Williams because I think I remember somebody saying he was the King of All Bugzilla. Certainly that odd component needs to vanish now that we have our own product category. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Nov 27 19:07:41 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:07:41 -0500 Subject: which bug to bug? In-Reply-To: <1133112891.7543.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1133109913.935.258.camel@erato.phig.org> <1133112891.7543.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1133118462.21208.37.camel@cutter> On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 12:34 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 08:45 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Which bugzilla component should receive bugs for formal Fedora websites? > > > > FDP created the 'fedora-websites' component in response to a need to > > receive and channel such bugs. > > > > However, the Fedora Infrastructure group already existed. Should that > > have the component that receives website bug traffic? > > Thanks for bringing this to the list where it belonged... I pinged > Karsten in a Bugzilla entry earlier today about this issue. My feeling > is that we don't want to make it harder for users to tell us about > website problems, but we also want to help them put bugs in the right > place when possible. > > > My main desire is to reduce confusion.[1] We've had some good > > beginnings using the FDP-based component, but I'm happy to move our > > group of bug responders over to the FI-based component. > > [1] Speaking of which, anyone know how to remove or deprecate the > > 'fedora-docs' component in the 'Fedora Core' category? > > I cc'd this to Dan Williams because I think I remember somebody saying > he was the King of All Bugzilla. Certainly that odd component needs to > vanish now that we have our own product category. not dcbw dkl == bugzilla master. Dave Lawrence -sv From stickster at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 23:31:11 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:31:11 -0500 Subject: which bug to bug? In-Reply-To: <1133118462.21208.37.camel@cutter> References: <1133109913.935.258.camel@erato.phig.org> <1133112891.7543.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1133118462.21208.37.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <1133134271.3664.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 14:07 -0500, seth vidal wrote: > On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 12:34 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sun, 2005-11-27 at 08:45 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Which bugzilla component should receive bugs for formal Fedora websites? > > > > > > FDP created the 'fedora-websites' component in response to a need to > > > receive and channel such bugs. > > > > > > However, the Fedora Infrastructure group already existed. Should that > > > have the component that receives website bug traffic? > > > > Thanks for bringing this to the list where it belonged... I pinged > > Karsten in a Bugzilla entry earlier today about this issue. My feeling > > is that we don't want to make it harder for users to tell us about > > website problems, but we also want to help them put bugs in the right > > place when possible. > > > > > My main desire is to reduce confusion.[1] We've had some good > > > beginnings using the FDP-based component, but I'm happy to move our > > > group of bug responders over to the FI-based component. > > > [1] Speaking of which, anyone know how to remove or deprecate the > > > 'fedora-docs' component in the 'Fedora Core' category? > > > > I cc'd this to Dan Williams because I think I remember somebody saying > > he was the King of All Bugzilla. Certainly that odd component needs to > > vanish now that we have our own product category. > > not dcbw > > dkl == bugzilla master. > > Dave Lawrence Thanks Seth, set new Cc accordingly. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From hballal at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 01:33:58 2005 From: hballal at gmail.com (Hrishikesh Ballal) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:33:58 -0500 Subject: Fedora Front Page Message-ID: <1133141639.3826.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> > >I also had a conversation with Diana about adding "Site Navigation" in > >the wiki (FedoraMain > Marketing > YouAreHere) . Diana feels that it > >should be on top of the site. I am going to try to put it right after > >the "search" box, to the left. I will modify the template and mail it to > >Seth. If you want to request a screenshot before we commit these > >changes, please let me know. > > > > > Prefer to see a screenshot if it isnt too much trouble. > http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/with_site_nav.png Please let me know if it looks OK, I will try to commit on the website. Hrishi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 04:44:36 2005 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:14:36 +0530 Subject: Fedora Front Page In-Reply-To: <1133141639.3826.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1133141639.3826.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <438A8B34.6040803@redhat.com> Hi >http://www.hrishikeshballal.net/other/fedora/with_site_nav.png > >Please let me know if it looks OK, I will try to commit on the website. > > Looks OK to me. Thanks regards Rahul From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Nov 28 06:21:16 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:21:16 -0600 Subject: Introducing #fedora-websites on freenode Message-ID: <438AA1DC.4060508@n-man.com> The new #fedora-websites channel on freenode is registered and running. Stop in and drop a line! irc://irc.freenode.net/fedora-websites (Your client may not support the above URL.) This channel obsoletes #fedora-wiki, which now forwards to this new channel. After the holiday season is over, we may start holding regular meetings in this channel, much like the meetings held for FESCo, FDSCo, and Marketing/Ambassadors. The floor is open for suggestions regarding meeting times, regularity, agenda, etc. Very shortly, I'll be starting a schedule page similar to those of the other projects for us to start tracking our agenda. If you have an item of importance, please take a moment to add it. I should have this page ready within 30 minutes. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Schedule Thanks for your participation in the Fedora Websites effort! I hope to chat with you all in this new channel! -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- From dfong at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 18:52:06 2005 From: dfong at redhat.com (Diana Fong) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:52:06 -0500 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> The following are my responses (with modified mockup) to the suggestions made on this list during the last few days. - "Get Fedora" should remain...it could link to the downloads page. It can also do with or without the period. I was trying to find the email with the argument against having the "." but can't seem to locate it. I like it with "." It's also a statement/sentence and so the "." is not too unreasonable...but it's not a major point and I can compromise to leave it out...the important thing is to keep the title. The "Get Fedora" focuses the visitor's attention and is a clear "call to action" of a good starting point. - Move links to side...sure...if someone wants to come up with what the groupings should be named. - split screen below to news and development...*see mockup* - search up top...yup - "site navigation"...*see mockup for suggestion* - justified text...i think we should continue to justify text. - i had not included the top links in my previous mockup because I thought they would just carry over to this iteration...however, if we are to consolidate all the links to the right...what should we do with those?...move them as well? and should we have a new category for those links? *see mockup* *mockup: http://www.isity.net/temp/FrontPageMod01.png Diana On Thu, 2005-11-24 at 23:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Thank you for working on this. My suggestins: > > * Drop the "Get Fedora" title. > * Move the links to the side. Split it up into places vs projects. > * Split the screen below into news and development. > * Search should be available on top. From chitlesh at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 19:04:02 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:04:02 +0000 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511281104g342af488haf414d4d96f051bf@mail.gmail.com> On 11/28/05, Diana Fong wrote: > The following are my responses (with modified mockup) to the suggestions > made on this list during the last few days. > > - "Get Fedora" should remain...it could link to the downloads page. It > can also do with or without the period. I was trying to find the email > with the argument against having the "." but can't seem to locate it. I > like it with "." It's also a statement/sentence and so the "." is not > too unreasonable...but it's not a major point and I can compromise to > leave it out...the important thing is to keep the title. The "Get > Fedora" focuses the visitor's attention and is a clear "call to action" > of a good starting point. > 1. I will vote for the "With Period". 2. In the previous mockups and in this one too, there is a space between in the images in the first row. This should not be hard to correct. 3. I personnally shall align the "Get Fedora" Title with the following paragraph. 4. Please forgive my ignorance. Why haven't we use "Get Fedora Core." as title? Anyway this question/answer can be added in the FAQ. regards Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Mon Nov 28 19:32:52 2005 From: skvidal at phy.duke.edu (seth vidal) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:32:52 -0500 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1133206372.6952.23.camel@cutter> > *mockup: http://www.isity.net/temp/FrontPageMod01.png > hey - why don't y'all work on trying one out like a "TestFrontPage" Page. just add #format html to the top and see how well it works. I added the html parser to our wiki instance. I used it on my personal page there: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SethVidal -sv From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Nov 28 20:03:28 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:03:28 -0600 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1133206372.6952.23.camel@cutter> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> <1133206372.6952.23.camel@cutter> Message-ID: <438B6290.2020700@n-man.com> seth vidal wrote: >> *mockup: http://www.isity.net/temp/FrontPageMod01.png >> >> > > > hey - why don't y'all work on trying one out like a "TestFrontPage" > Page. > > just add #format html to the top and see how well it works. > > I added the html parser to our wiki instance. > > I used it on my personal page there: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SethVidal > > -sv > > > Sweet! Thanks! Now we can really get moving on prototyping this stuff. If we do decide to change up the links in the sidebar, that will require a separate patch to the theme, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it. :-) -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- From chitlesh at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 21:02:46 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:02:46 +0000 Subject: fedoraproject/people Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511281302t495ce2b2yc219e94fd1e88fd9@mail.gmail.com> The following is my mail sent to Seth vidal. >Hello Seth, >Whenever I blockquote a text in my blog, the output on the fedoraproject/people is incorrect. >If you have ever got across this issue please guide me :) if there are guidelines to follow before posting on my post, please do pop it quick. meanwhile i will remove the blockquotes regards Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Nov 28 21:33:42 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:33:42 -0600 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <438B6290.2020700@n-man.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> <1133206372.6952.23.camel@cutter> <438B6290.2020700@n-man.com> Message-ID: <438B77B6.3080406@n-man.com> My first draft is up! I encourage anyone who is interested to check it out and hack on it! http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FedoraMain It is a bit rough around the edges, but it demonstrates some of the basic ideas we've gone over. It is roughly based upon Diana's mockup. I haven't played with the styles too much. If you want to play, remember two things: you can copy the markup of this page to another location to play with, and you can use 'Preview' to check out changes before you commit them. Please report new revisions and thoughts back to this thread. -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- From nman64 at n-man.com Mon Nov 28 21:50:50 2005 From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick Barnes) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:50:50 -0600 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <438B77B6.3080406@n-man.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> <1133206372.6952.23.camel@cutter> <438B6290.2020700@n-man.com> <438B77B6.3080406@n-man.com> Message-ID: <438B7BBA.7070600@n-man.com> I would really like to see the sidebar go away or become something else. As-is, it will always be in the way when the window is sized down. Moving it to the top in an abbreviated form or perhaps moving it to the left side would help a lot. I like it when the browser window is at 1024x768 or better, but at lower resolutions it conflicts with the page content. Other opinions? -- Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes nman64 at n-man.com www.n-man.com -- From sopwith at redhat.com Mon Nov 28 21:58:24 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:58:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <438B77B6.3080406@n-man.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> <1133206372.6952.23.camel@cutter> <438B6290.2020700@n-man.com> <438B77B6.3080406@n-man.com> Message-ID: It's neat to see all the designs flying by on the list! There's just one point I'd like to make: simplicity is the essence of a good design, and plentiful whitespace is the best indicator of simplicity. Right now the page looks awefully crowded and complex. The whole art of web design revolves around taking complex information and organizing it in a manner that is simple to absorb. I seem to remember reading once about a rule in user interface design that said that you should never have more than 7 items on any level of a menu, and never more than two levels of menus. I think we should try to imagine applying a similar rule to the web site, and perhaps add some navigational cues to help people understand where they are within the site. Some $0.02 to think about, -- Elliot Unanswered questions in The Matrix: What happens if you take both the red pill AND the blue pill? From chitlesh at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 23:52:46 2005 From: chitlesh at gmail.com (Chitlesh GOORAH) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:52:46 +0000 Subject: Brazilian LiveCD In-Reply-To: <438C8CAE.3070607@sagraluzzatto.com.br> References: <438C8CAE.3070607@sagraluzzatto.com.br> Message-ID: <13dbfe4f0511291552i2871015i4105c66883373eb@mail.gmail.com> > Fedora Core 4 LiveCD > > Created by SERPRO ( Company of Technology - Brazilian Government ) > > Download: > http://www.serpro.gov.br/arquivosdownload/Fedora4-LiveCD.iso > Hai Rodrigo, good job. I have just downloaded and burned it. There are things you need to specify, 1. by default its in spanish i guess 2. secondly it is with kde I wanted to change the language to EN and finally logout and login (just like with knoppix) but finally ended with a login screen asking a username and a password. Its 00:48 now. Im going to sleep. I will look at it tomorrow. last thing. I would be good if its tweaked to fit fedora core. by tweaking i mean, removing the linux-live text. plus the very last thing. It detected my hda1 as wrong fs. good job +1 you can include it here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LiveCD or here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DerivedDistributions/LiveCDs depending whether it is derived or not. one word (or a touch for perfection) for the liveCD wiki pages, I woould be nice if kde or gnome is stated next to the live distro. Chitlesh GOORAH -- http://clunixchit.blogspot.com From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 30 19:59:40 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:59:40 -0800 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1133380781.19569.85.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 13:52 -0500, Diana Fong wrote: > - "Get Fedora" ... can also do with or without the period. It was Paul who made the point originally, and I was certain that it was a specific GNOME documentation style guide. You may not know, but in FDP we specify this order for deciding style: 1. Chicago Manual of Style 2. GNOME Documentation Style Guide 3. Fedora Documentation Guide That is, we default to 1, then 2, and note exceptions in 3. This is typical of writing projects, having a canonical reference outside of the project, and noting project rules and exceptions in a style guide. So, it may be a CMS recommendation that I can't look up. It is not, unfortunately, specified in the GNOME guide ... but, if you look at the ToC for that guide, you won't see a title or heading with a period in it: http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/index.html We will be sure to include this rule in the next version of the Fedora Documentation Guide. For now, I'll just ask all to remember that we don't put periods in titles. FWIW, Mozilla didn't either with "Get Firefox". - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Nov 30 20:01:11 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:01:11 -0800 Subject: Fedora front page In-Reply-To: <438B7BBA.7070600@n-man.com> References: <1132856013.4409.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43860536.5030500@redhat.com> <1133203926.10236.27.camel@marshall.boston.redhat.com> <1133206372.6952.23.camel@cutter> <438B6290.2020700@n-man.com> <438B77B6.3080406@n-man.com> <438B7BBA.7070600@n-man.com> Message-ID: <1133380872.19569.87.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-11-28 at 15:50 -0600, Patrick Barnes wrote: > I would really like to see the sidebar go away or become something > else. As-is, it will always be in the way when the window is sized > down. Moving it to the top in an abbreviated form or perhaps moving it > to the left side would help a lot. I like it when the browser window is > at 1024x768 or better, but at lower resolutions it conflicts with the > page content. Other opinions? Maybe to the left. Content that needs to expand always expand going to the right, where it jams up against or is hidden by the right-side navigation. Right-side nav has been trendy in the past few years, but whatever. Let's go back to what works. - Karsten, who has a 1024x768 laptop screen with panels, gkrellm, and widgets that make it a bit smaller than that. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > nman64 at n-man.com > > www.n-man.com > -- > > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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