From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com  Wed Nov  1 01:43:49 2006
From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Patrick Barnes (nman64))
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:43:49 -0700
Subject: web/html index.php,1.20,1.21
Message-ID: <200611010144.kA11iJYS010439@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com>

Author: nman64

Update of /cvs/fedora/web/html
In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv10381/html

Modified Files:
	index.php 
Log Message:
Update fedora.redhat.com for Fedora Core 6
Modify pages to use variable for release version to make this even easier in the future



Index: index.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/html/index.php,v
retrieving revision 1.20
retrieving revision 1.21
diff -u -r1.20 -r1.21
--- index.php	20 Mar 2006 15:39:40 -0000	1.20
+++ index.php	1 Nov 2006 01:43:47 -0000	1.21
@@ -17,7 +17,7 @@
 </p>
 
 <p>
-<strong><a href="Download/">Download</a> Fedora Core 5 now.</strong>
+<strong><a href="Download/">Download</a> <? echo $RELEASE_NAME . " " . $RELEASE_VERSION . ' "' . $CODE_NAME . '"'; ?> now.</strong>
 </p>
 
 <strong><a href="/docs/">Documentation</a></strong> for Fedora is available.



From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com  Wed Nov  1 01:43:50 2006
From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Patrick Barnes (nman64))
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:43:50 -0700
Subject: web/html/Download index.php,1.6,1.7
Message-ID: <200611010144.kA11iKuA010442@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com>

Author: nman64

Update of /cvs/fedora/web/html/Download
In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv10381/html/Download

Modified Files:
	index.php 
Log Message:
Update fedora.redhat.com for Fedora Core 6
Modify pages to use variable for release version to make this even easier in the future



Index: index.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/html/Download/index.php,v
retrieving revision 1.6
retrieving revision 1.7
diff -u -r1.6 -r1.7
--- index.php	23 May 2006 13:34:23 -0000	1.6
+++ index.php	1 Nov 2006 01:43:48 -0000	1.7
@@ -10,11 +10,11 @@
 
 <h1>Download Now</h1>
 <ul>
-  <li>Download Fedora Core 5 images:
+  <li>Download <? echo $RELEASE_NAME . " " . $RELEASE_VERSION; ?> images:
     <ul>
-      <li><strong><a href="http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/i386/iso/">i386</a></strong></li>
-      <li><strong><a href="http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/x86_64/iso/">x86_64</a></strong></li>
-      <li><strong><a href="http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/ppc/iso/">ppc</a></strong></li>
+      <li><strong><a href="http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/<? echo $RELEASE_VERSION; ?>/i386/iso/">i386</a></strong></li>
+      <li><strong><a href="http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/<? echo $RELEASE_VERSION; ?>/x86_64/iso/">x86_64</a></strong></li>
+      <li><strong><a href="http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/core/<? echo $RELEASE_VERSION; ?>/ppc/iso/">ppc</a></strong></li>
     </ul></li>
   <li>Slow downloading?
     <ul>



From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com  Wed Nov  1 01:43:51 2006
From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Patrick Barnes (nman64))
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:43:51 -0700
Subject: web/include site.inc,1.2,1.3
Message-ID: <200611010144.kA11iLrI010445@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com>

Author: nman64

Update of /cvs/fedora/web/include
In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv10381/include

Modified Files:
	site.inc 
Log Message:
Update fedora.redhat.com for Fedora Core 6
Modify pages to use variable for release version to make this even easier in the future



Index: site.inc
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/include/site.inc,v
retrieving revision 1.2
retrieving revision 1.3
diff -u -r1.2 -r1.3
--- site.inc	14 Jun 2005 16:04:56 -0000	1.2
+++ site.inc	1 Nov 2006 01:43:49 -0000	1.3
@@ -17,8 +17,8 @@
 $TRADEMARK_NAME='Fedora&trade;';
 $ALTERNATIVES_NAME='Fedora Alternatives';
 $LEGACY_NAME='Fedora Legacy';
-$RELEASE_VERSION='4';
-$BETA_NAME='Severn';
-$CODE_NAME='Stentz';
+$RELEASE_VERSION='6';
+$BETA_NAME='';
+$CODE_NAME='Zod';
 
 ?>



From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com  Wed Nov  1 01:54:35 2006
From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Patrick Barnes (nman64))
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:54:35 -0700
Subject: web/include template.inc,1.10,1.11
Message-ID: <200611010154.kA11sZvo010490@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com>

Author: nman64

Update of /cvs/fedora/web/include
In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv10472/include

Modified Files:
	template.inc 
Log Message:
Update copyright year



Index: template.inc
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/include/template.inc,v
retrieving revision 1.10
retrieving revision 1.11
diff -u -r1.10 -r1.11
--- template.inc	21 Mar 2006 21:53:25 -0000	1.10
+++ template.inc	1 Nov 2006 01:54:33 -0000	1.11
@@ -126,7 +126,7 @@
 		print '
 		<!-- footer BEGIN -->
 		<div id="fedora-footer">
-			Copyright &copy; 2003-2005 Red Hat, Inc. All rights reserved.
+			Copyright &copy; 2003-'. date('Y') .' Red Hat, Inc. All rights reserved.
 			<br>';
 		if ($front) {
 			print 'Fedora is a trademark of Red Hat, Inc. 



From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com  Wed Nov  1 04:23:19 2006
From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Patrick Barnes (nman64))
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:23:19 -0700
Subject: web/html index.php,1.21,1.22
Message-ID: <200611010423.kA14NJ0L020645@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com>

Author: nman64

Update of /cvs/fedora/web/html
In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv20627/html

Modified Files:
	index.php 
Log Message:
Highlight links in transition note



Index: index.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/html/index.php,v
retrieving revision 1.21
retrieving revision 1.22
diff -u -r1.21 -r1.22
--- index.php	1 Nov 2006 01:43:47 -0000	1.21
+++ index.php	1 Nov 2006 04:23:17 -0000	1.22
@@ -32,7 +32,7 @@
 </p>
 
 <p>
-We are currently in the process of evaluating a transition of this website to <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/">fedoraproject.org</a>. fedoraproject.org is a community website that is being revamped and has more content being actively added to it on a regular basis. Users and developers are encouraged to visit this website for information and regular updates. The <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites">Fedora Websites Team</a> is discussing the transition and a new content management system to host our updated infrastructure. Anyone is welcome to join those discussions. Thank you for your interest in the Fedora Project.
+We are currently in the process of evaluating a transition of this website to <strong><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/">fedoraproject.org</a></strong>. fedoraproject.org is a community website that is being revamped and has more content being actively added to it on a regular basis. Users and developers are encouraged to visit this website for information and regular updates. The <strong><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites">Fedora Websites Team</a></strong> is discussing the transition and a new content management system to host our updated infrastructure. Anyone is welcome to join those discussions. Thank you for your interest in the Fedora Project.
 </p>
 </div>
 



From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com  Wed Nov  1 04:26:09 2006
From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Patrick Barnes (nman64))
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:26:09 -0700
Subject: web/include template.inc,1.11,1.12
Message-ID: <200611010426.kA14Q9tt020678@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com>

Author: nman64

Update of /cvs/fedora/web/include
In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv20660/include

Modified Files:
	template.inc 
Log Message:
Labelled timestamp as UTC



Index: template.inc
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/include/template.inc,v
retrieving revision 1.11
retrieving revision 1.12
diff -u -r1.11 -r1.12
--- template.inc	1 Nov 2006 01:54:33 -0000	1.11
+++ template.inc	1 Nov 2006 04:26:07 -0000	1.12
@@ -142,7 +142,7 @@
 			<br>';
 		if (!empty($date)) {
 			print '
-			This page last modified at: '.ereg_replace('\\$Da'.'te: (.*)\\$', '\\1', $date).'
+			This page last modified at: '.ereg_replace('\\$Da'.'te: (.*)\\$', '\\1', $date).' UTC
 			<br>';
 		}
 ?>



From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com  Mon Nov  6 03:05:50 2006
From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Karsten Wade (kwade))
Date: Sun,  5 Nov 2006 20:05:50 -0700
Subject: web/html/docs/release-notes index.php,1.26,1.27
Message-ID: <200611060305.kA635otI011545@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com>

Author: kwade

Update of /cvs/fedora/web/html/docs/release-notes
In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv11527

Modified Files:
	index.php 
Log Message:
making a more prominent and early link to the common bugs


Index: index.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/html/docs/release-notes/index.php,v
retrieving revision 1.26
retrieving revision 1.27
diff -u -r1.26 -r1.27
--- index.php	24 Oct 2006 14:08:56 -0000	1.26
+++ index.php	6 Nov 2006 03:05:47 -0000	1.27
@@ -34,6 +34,12 @@
 </td></tr>
 </table>
 </div>
+<p>
+For a list of common known bugs in the FC6 release, refer to:
+</p>
+<p>
+<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/FC6Common">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/FC6Common</a>
+</p>
 <!--
 <div class="tip" style="margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0.5in;">
 <table border="0" summary="Tip: Latest Test Release Notes on the Web">



From fedora-websites-list at redhat.com  Mon Nov  6 04:59:41 2006
From: fedora-websites-list at redhat.com (Karsten Wade (kwade))
Date: Sun,  5 Nov 2006 21:59:41 -0700
Subject: web/html/docs/release-notes index.php,1.27,1.28
Message-ID: <200611060459.kA64xfCK016094@cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com>

Author: kwade

Update of /cvs/fedora/web/html/docs/release-notes
In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv16076

Modified Files:
	index.php 
Log Message:
thought I had taken the second ru link out, but I guess I didn't


Index: index.php
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/fedora/web/html/docs/release-notes/index.php,v
retrieving revision 1.27
retrieving revision 1.28
diff -u -r1.27 -r1.28
--- index.php	6 Nov 2006 03:05:47 -0000	1.27
+++ index.php	6 Nov 2006 04:59:39 -0000	1.28
@@ -27,7 +27,6 @@
     <a href="/docs/release-notes/fc6/pt/">pt</a> |
     <a href="/docs/release-notes/fc6/pt_BR/">pt_BR</a> |
     <a href="/docs/release-notes/fc6/ru/">ru</a> |
-    <a href="/docs/release-notes/fc6/ru/">ru</a> |
     <a href="/docs/release-notes/fc6/sv/">sv</a> |
     <a href="/docs/release-notes/fc6/zh_CN/">zh_CN</a> (24-Oct-2006)
 </p>



From benny1990 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  8 15:00:25 2006
From: benny1990 at gmail.com (Benjamin Weber)
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 16:00:25 +0100
Subject: Fedora Wiki (moinmoin) Theme.
Message-ID: <1162998025.5175.5.camel@ubuntu>

Hi at all!

Concerning to
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2005-November/msg00142.html I ask this list if I can get the theme, too.
It will be used by me on my private website with no comercial thougts.
Is it possible that anyone can send me it?
I searched for hrishi and dfong but without any result.

Many thanks!

Benny




From dimitris at glezos.com  Mon Nov 20 01:45:57 2006
From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 01:45:57 +0000
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
Message-ID: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>

(CCing art-list)

Hi all.

I've made some CSS/foo for the wiki. Here are some screenshots:

  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/WikiDesignTuning

There have been some comments for improving the design of the wiki in the past
[1] but unfortunately they went uncommitted. It is sad to see contributions and
ideas not receiving the attention they require.

The design of the wiki is a *major* marketing issue and the artwork team should
have the opportunity to tune and increase the wiki's usability. It would be
great if *tomorrow* we could make the website more usable and accessible,
wouldn't it? :)

It is a good idea (tm) to always document somewhere the names of the people in
charge of stuff; it seems many pieces of the websites items don't have real
maintainers but just good hackers that just don't have enough time to do
everything. On the other hand, if no-one is in charge, we should put
*Maintainer/moderator needed* at the place where the name should appear, so that
someone steps up, who could be just the person in charge of poking in turn the
right people. So, it would be a great idea IMO to have a `Websites/Contact
points` wiki page.

Awaiting comments. I'll try to produce a reasonable `diff` soon.

-d


[1]:http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2006-June/thread.html#00051


-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
-- 




From tchung at fedoraproject.org  Mon Nov 20 07:00:13 2006
From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung)
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:00:13 -0800
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>
Message-ID: <369bce3b0611192300k33abd4a4j45647ce09f72f832@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/19/06, Dimitris Glezos <dimitris at glezos.com> wrote:
> (CCing art-list)
>
> Hi all.
>
> I've made some CSS/foo for the wiki. Here are some screenshots:
>
>   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/WikiDesignTuning

I like the new design. You have my vote.
Regards,
-- 
Thomas Chung
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung



From jmbabich at gmail.com  Mon Nov 20 07:52:52 2006
From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich)
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:52:52 +0300
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0611192300k33abd4a4j45647ce09f72f832@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>
	<369bce3b0611192300k33abd4a4j45647ce09f72f832@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9d2c731f0611192352r43be2beak377271b0a2a23b4e@mail.gmail.com>

Dimitris:

> On 11/19/06, Dimitris Glezos <dimitris at glezos.com> wrote:
> The design of the wiki is a *major* marketing issue and the artwork team should
> have the opportunity to tune and increase the wiki's usability. It would be
> great if *tomorrow* we could make the website more usable and accessible,
> wouldn't it? :)

I second the vote.

Since I'm brand new to fedora-websites, let me just say that I have
been active in
the fedora-docs team for the the past 3 months. I couldn't agree more
that the wiki
(with all of its flaws) is one of the primary "public faces" for the
Fedora Project.

There's a lot of discussion and effort in the Fedora Docs team working
towards the
same goals of making "the website more usable and accessible".

John Babich
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich



From dimitris at glezos.com  Tue Nov 21 13:28:29 2006
From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:28:29 +0000
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0611192300k33abd4a4j45647ce09f72f832@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>
	<369bce3b0611192300k33abd4a4j45647ce09f72f832@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4562FEFD.2070005@glezos.com>

O/H Thomas Chung ??????:
> On 11/19/06, Dimitris Glezos <dimitris at glezos.com> wrote:
>> (CCing art-list)
>>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I've made some CSS/foo for the wiki. Here are some screenshots:
>>
>>   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/WikiDesignTuning
> 
> I like the new design. You have my vote.

Thanks Thomas.

Since no-one had any objections, maybe we should go forward with this.

Here is an action plan:

 1. Make some further improvements and upload an HTML version (22/11)

 2. Get some test/feedback from `fedora-websites-list` members (24/11)

 3. Notify mailing lists about the action (when it will happen and where to send
comments/bugs)

 4. Just do it (tm) :)

-d


-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/


"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--



From duffy at redhat.com  Tue Nov 21 14:36:10 2006
From: duffy at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TcOhaXLDrW4gRHVmZnk=?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:36:10 -0500
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <4562FEFD.2070005@glezos.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>	<369bce3b0611192300k33abd4a4j45647ce09f72f832@mail.gmail.com>
	<4562FEFD.2070005@glezos.com>
Message-ID: <45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>

Hi Dimitris,

Dimitris Glezos wrote:
> O/H Thomas Chung ??????:
>> On 11/19/06, Dimitris Glezos <dimitris at glezos.com> wrote:
>>> I've made some CSS/foo for the wiki. Here are some screenshots:
>>>
>>>   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/WikiDesignTuning
>> I like the new design. You have my vote.
> 
> Thanks Thomas.
> 
> Since no-one had any objections, maybe we should go forward with this.

For what it's worth, I think these proposed modifications look fabulous! 
It's very clean and makes the level of hierarchy each piece of 
information is in on the page much more clearer.

One additional thing I would suggest - if you can do it and think it is 
a good idea - is to add a spot in the right nav on the wiki for little 
banners to advertise Fedora subprojects and events, etc. This is 
something we had talked about on the marketing list I think a long time 
ago - http://people.redhat.com/duffy/misc/fedoramentor-banner.png 
(although might be better on the top).

> Here is an action plan:
> 
>  1. Make some further improvements and upload an HTML version (22/11)
> 
>  2. Get some test/feedback from `fedora-websites-list` members (24/11)

If you want to do a formal usability test let me know and I can help out 
with that. I'll be on vacation these 22/11 - 26/11 so I'll have time! :)

Thanks for taking charge on this Dimitris! We've needed this for a long 
time. :)

~m



From nman64 at n-man.com  Wed Nov 22 15:15:09 2006
From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:15:09 -0600
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com> <4562FEFD.2070005@glezos.com>
	<45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <200611220915.13581.nman64@n-man.com>

On Tuesday 21 November 2006 08:36, M?ir?n Duffy wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, I think these proposed modifications look fabulous!
> It's very clean and makes the level of hierarchy each piece of
> information is in on the page much more clearer.

My one suggestion would be to keep the original default font size.  I've not 
heard any complaints about the font size in the past, and increasing it could 
break some of the less-proper design elements used in the wiki and wouldn't 
allow as much information to fit on any given screen.

>
> One additional thing I would suggest - if you can do it and think it is
> a good idea - is to add a spot in the right nav on the wiki for little
> banners to advertise Fedora subprojects and events, etc. This is
> something we had talked about on the marketing list I think a long time
> ago - http://people.redhat.com/duffy/misc/fedoramentor-banner.png
> (although might be better on the top).

Design elements like that require alterations to the Python part of the theme.  
That's something that we're reluctant to play with too much.  If someone 
really wanted to take the time to produce such elements that could then be 
further edited without playing with the Python code, more power to them.

Something else to be aware of is that we still plan on upgrading the wiki 
soon, which would mean forward-porting theme changes.  It might be easier to 
wait until after the upgrade to apply changes.

>
> > Here is an action plan:
> >
> >  1. Make some further improvements and upload an HTML version (22/11)
> >
> >  2. Get some test/feedback from `fedora-websites-list` members (24/11)

You'll need to push your dates back a little, as we're upon an American 
holiday (Thanksgiving) tomorrow, and I'm sure many contributors will be 
preoccupied for the next several days.

-- 
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64 at n-man.com

http://n-man.com/

LinkedIn:
http://linkedin.com/in/nman64

Have I been helpful?  Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
-- 

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From jkeating at redhat.com  Wed Nov 22 15:46:21 2006
From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:46:21 -0500
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <200611220915.13581.nman64@n-man.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com> <45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>
	<200611220915.13581.nman64@n-man.com>
Message-ID: <200611221046.21628.jkeating@redhat.com>

On Wednesday 22 November 2006 10:15, Patrick W. Barnes wrote:
> My one suggestion would be to keep the original default font size. ?I've
> not heard any complaints about the font size in the past, and increasing it
> could break some of the less-proper design elements used in the wiki and
> wouldn't allow as much information to fit on any given screen.

Well I usually have to bump up the text size when I read wiki pages.  Maybe my 
eyes are too sucky and my resolution too great, but I always find the default 
wiki font sizes to be too small and I bump them.

-- 
Jesse Keating
Release Engineer: Fedora
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From stickster at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 15:35:16 2006
From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 10:35:16 -0500
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>
	<369bce3b0611192300k33abd4a4j45647ce09f72f832@mail.gmail.com>
	<4562FEFD.2070005@glezos.com>  <45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1164382516.18400.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2006-11-21 at 09:36 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote:
> Hi Dimitris,
> 
> Dimitris Glezos wrote:
> > O/H Thomas Chung ??????:
> >> On 11/19/06, Dimitris Glezos <dimitris at glezos.com> wrote:
> >>> I've made some CSS/foo for the wiki. Here are some screenshots:
> >>>
> >>>   http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/WikiDesignTuning
> >> I like the new design. You have my vote.
> > 
> > Thanks Thomas.
> > 
> > Since no-one had any objections, maybe we should go forward with this.
> 
> For what it's worth, I think these proposed modifications look fabulous! 
> It's very clean and makes the level of hierarchy each piece of 
> information is in on the page much more clearer.

+1.  Nice, simple, understated, but very clear to the eye.  Great job
Dimitris!

> One additional thing I would suggest - if you can do it and think it is 
> a good idea - is to add a spot in the right nav on the wiki for little 
> banners to advertise Fedora subprojects and events, etc. This is 
> something we had talked about on the marketing list I think a long time 
> ago - http://people.redhat.com/duffy/misc/fedoramentor-banner.png 
> (although might be better on the top).

+1 again.  That would help give the Mentors program a much-needed kick
in the hindparts.  I've observed lots of willingness but very little
connectivity to the community; with the number of daily hits on our
wiki, surely this would result in an increase of activity.

> > Here is an action plan:
> > 
> >  1. Make some further improvements and upload an HTML version (22/11)
> > 
> >  2. Get some test/feedback from `fedora-websites-list` members (24/11)
> 
> If you want to do a formal usability test let me know and I can help out 
> with that. I'll be on vacation these 22/11 - 26/11 so I'll have time! :)
> 
> Thanks for taking charge on this Dimitris! We've needed this for a long 
> time. :)

Maybe Dimitris could also lead an overhaul on the front page! ;-)

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
       Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
    Fedora Docs Project:  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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From stickster at gmail.com  Fri Nov 24 17:55:56 2006
From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:55:56 -0500
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <200611221046.21628.jkeating@redhat.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com> <45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>
	<200611220915.13581.nman64@n-man.com>
	<200611221046.21628.jkeating@redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1164390956.18400.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2006-11-22 at 10:46 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On Wednesday 22 November 2006 10:15, Patrick W. Barnes wrote:
> > My one suggestion would be to keep the original default font size.  I've
> > not heard any complaints about the font size in the past, and increasing it
> > could break some of the less-proper design elements used in the wiki and
> > wouldn't allow as much information to fit on any given screen.
> 
> Well I usually have to bump up the text size when I read wiki pages.  Maybe my 
> eyes are too sucky and my resolution too great, but I always find the default 
> wiki font sizes to be too small and I bump them.

I absolutely agree.  With the resolution on affordable monitors and LCD
panels increasing, these tiny fonts are definitely hard to read.  I use
a user CSS page to fix that problem, but requiring new users to do that
is silly.  A better solution would be a cookie and at least a simple
"small, medium, large" selector on the screen.

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
       Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
    Fedora Docs Project:  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
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From nman64 at n-man.com  Fri Nov 24 22:11:40 2006
From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 16:11:40 -0600
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <1164390956.18400.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>
	<200611221046.21628.jkeating@redhat.com>
	<1164390956.18400.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200611241611.43250.nman64@n-man.com>

On Friday 24 November 2006 11:55, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-11-22 at 10:46 -0500, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > On Wednesday 22 November 2006 10:15, Patrick W. Barnes wrote:
> > > My one suggestion would be to keep the original default font size. 
> > > I've not heard any complaints about the font size in the past, and
> > > increasing it could break some of the less-proper design elements used
> > > in the wiki and wouldn't allow as much information to fit on any given
> > > screen.
> >
> > Well I usually have to bump up the text size when I read wiki pages. 
> > Maybe my eyes are too sucky and my resolution too great, but I always
> > find the default wiki font sizes to be too small and I bump them.
>
> I absolutely agree.  With the resolution on affordable monitors and LCD
> panels increasing, these tiny fonts are definitely hard to read.  I use
> a user CSS page to fix that problem, but requiring new users to do that
> is silly.  A better solution would be a cookie and at least a simple
> "small, medium, large" selector on the screen.

While it would be great to have an option for changing the font size on the 
fly, that would be complex to add to the wiki.  Most browsers already have 
features to easily adjust font sizes, so we just need to set a reasonable 
default.  Keep in mind that the majority of viewers are still going to be 
using 1024x768 or even 800x600.

The problem I see in the current stylesheets is the use of fixed font sizing 
(".75em"), which results in extremely small fonts in some browsers with 
certain configurations.  Using relative sizing ("small") instead of fixed 
sizing should allow browser configurations to determine what a comfortable 
font size should be.  A properly-configured browser should then alleviate the 
need to make per-site or per-visit adjustments.

-- 
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64 at n-man.com

http://n-man.com/

LinkedIn:
http://linkedin.com/in/nman64

Have I been helpful?  Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
-- 

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From nman64 at n-man.com  Tue Nov 28 14:26:03 2006
From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:26:03 -0600
Subject: moin 1.5.6 + squid = new wiki
In-Reply-To: <3237e4410611280614s55a247dfy24299475582fbae8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3237e4410611280614s55a247dfy24299475582fbae8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200611280826.10941.nman64@n-man.com>

On Tuesday 28 November 2006 08:14, Mike McGrath wrote:
> So Paulobanon and kim0 have been working on getting the squid servers
> ready and upgrading the wiki.  Here's what they have so far
>
> http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/wiki
>
> Who else should we be notifying about this for testing before we do
> the final conversion?
>

At least the folks I've CC'd.  Anyone else who works heavily on the wiki or 
who is responsible for large chunks of it should be "in the loop", both for 
the sake of testing and to be prepared after the final conversion.

-- 
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64 at n-man.com

http://n-man.com/

LinkedIn:
http://linkedin.com/in/nman64

Have I been helpful?  Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
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From dimitris at glezos.com  Wed Nov 29 01:58:33 2006
From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:58:33 +0000
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <200611220915.13581.nman64@n-man.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>
	<4562FEFD.2070005@glezos.com>	<45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>
	<200611220915.13581.nman64@n-man.com>
Message-ID: <456CE949.9030109@glezos.com>


O/H Patrick W. Barnes ??????:
> On Tuesday 21 November 2006 08:36, M?ir?n Duffy wrote:
>> For what it's worth, I think these proposed modifications look fabulous!
>> It's very clean and makes the level of hierarchy each piece of
>> information is in on the page much more clearer.

Since most of the comments were positive, I went on and produced a CSS that
overrides the default theme values.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/WikiDesignTuning/CSS?action=raw

To test it, go to `UserPreferences` and put the above in the "User CSS URL" box.

> My one suggestion would be to keep the original default font size.  I've not 
> heard any complaints about the font size in the past, and increasing it could 
> break some of the less-proper design elements used in the wiki and wouldn't 
> allow as much information to fit on any given screen.

The font size is very small and should be increased, this is the conscious I got
from some people. Even if it means we will have less content on a page.

The content on the page is already more than what it should be: the paragraphs
are very wide in high resolutions and the text is very small (there is a certain
ratio of letters per row that makes a paragraph more readable but even the newer
font size exceeds that).

Although we should really use something close to 1em and let the user choose the
zooming, the current proposal (0.85em) is relatively small to fit a lot of text
in the page. For reference, one could check out the mozilla, gnome and ubuntu wikis.

>> One additional thing I would suggest - if you can do it and think it is
>> a good idea - is to add a spot in the right nav on the wiki for little
>> banners to advertise Fedora subprojects and events, etc. This is
>> something we had talked about on the marketing list I think a long time
>> ago - http://people.redhat.com/duffy/misc/fedoramentor-banner.png
>> (although might be better on the top).
> 
> Design elements like that require alterations to the Python part of the theme.  
> That's something that we're reluctant to play with too much.  If someone 
> really wanted to take the time to produce such elements that could then be 
> further edited without playing with the Python code, more power to them.
> 
> Something else to be aware of is that we still plan on upgrading the wiki 
> soon, which would mean forward-porting theme changes.  It might be easier to 
> wait until after the upgrade to apply changes.

When is the update scheduled? If we do need to tweak the code to make the wiki
more usable, we should. Of course, we should do it in a way that we can apply it
for every update.

We might need some more changes, like putting a <div> around the table of
contents to manipulate it through CSS.

-d


-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
-- 



From dimitris at glezos.com  Wed Nov 29 02:02:45 2006
From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:02:45 +0000
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <456CE949.9030109@glezos.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com>	<4562FEFD.2070005@glezos.com>	<45630EDA.6020206@redhat.com>	<200611220915.13581.nman64@n-man.com>
	<456CE949.9030109@glezos.com>
Message-ID: <456CEA45.5050505@glezos.com>



O/H Dimitris Glezos ??????:
> O/H Patrick W. Barnes ??????:
>> On Tuesday 21 November 2006 08:36, M?ir?n Duffy wrote:
>>> For what it's worth, I think these proposed modifications look fabulous!
>>> It's very clean and makes the level of hierarchy each piece of
>>> information is in on the page much more clearer.
> 
> Since most of the comments were positive, I went on and produced a CSS that
> overrides the default theme values.
> 
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DimitrisGlezos/WikiDesignTuning/CSS?action=raw
> 
> To test it, go to `UserPreferences` and put the above in the "User CSS URL" box.

Don't know why, but the above URL doesn't always work. If you don't see any
difference, use the following URL:

  http://dimitris.glezos.com/box/foss/fedora/custom.css

Sorry for the second email.

-d



-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
-- 



From nman64 at n-man.com  Wed Nov 29 18:28:59 2006
From: nman64 at n-man.com (Patrick W. Barnes)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:28:59 -0600
Subject: Tweaking the design of the wiki
In-Reply-To: <456CE949.9030109@glezos.com>
References: <456108D5.2080807@glezos.com> <200611220915.13581.nman64@n-man.com>
	<456CE949.9030109@glezos.com>
Message-ID: <200611291229.03669.nman64@n-man.com>

On Tuesday 28 November 2006 19:58, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
> O/H Patrick W. Barnes ??????:
>
> > My one suggestion would be to keep the original default font size.  I've
> > not heard any complaints about the font size in the past, and increasing
> > it could break some of the less-proper design elements used in the wiki
> > and wouldn't allow as much information to fit on any given screen.
>
> The font size is very small and should be increased, this is the conscious
> I got from some people. Even if it means we will have less content on a
> page.
>
> The content on the page is already more than what it should be: the
> paragraphs are very wide in high resolutions and the text is very small
> (there is a certain ratio of letters per row that makes a paragraph more
> readable but even the newer font size exceeds that).

Don't design to high resolutions.

Design pages that are as generic as possible, but where something must be 
specific to a resolution, stick to the range where the majority sits: 800x600 
to 1024x768.  It may seem callous, but it's not a web designer's job to 
accommodate people that use high resolutions beyond their eyesight without 
properly configuring their systems, especially to the detriment of the 
majority of viewers.  I personally use 1920x1440 on my primary workstation, 
and I find the current appearance of the wiki to be about perfect, without 
any zoom or configuration changes, and it still looks great on my 1024x768 
laptop.  Since I'm nearly blind, I have to wonder what other people are 
seeing that is causing them to complain.  I know that the static "*em" size 
attributes are interpreted differently by different systems and browsers, as 
are most sizing specifications, but I guess I haven't seen the full extent of 
the differences.  I'm not saying we can't adjust the CSS to increase the font 
size a little, but be careful about what you're targetting.

As for "letters per row", that's really not something we can or should attempt 
to plan for in HTML/CSS design.  It is beyond the scope of markup and totally 
irrelevant for dynamically sized elements.

>
> Although we should really use something close to 1em and let the user
> choose the zooming, the current proposal (0.85em) is relatively small to
> fit a lot of text in the page. For reference, one could check out the
> mozilla, gnome and ubuntu wikis.
>

> >
> > Something else to be aware of is that we still plan on upgrading the wiki
> > soon, which would mean forward-porting theme changes.  It might be easier
> > to wait until after the upgrade to apply changes.
>
> When is the update scheduled? If we do need to tweak the code to make the
> wiki more usable, we should. Of course, we should do it in a way that we
> can apply it for every update.

It is actively being worked on right now.  A test site is already up and 
running, and it won't take long for the team that's handling it to work out 
the last few problems.

>
> We might need some more changes, like putting a <div> around the table of
> contents to manipulate it through CSS.
>

That would require patching the MoinMoin core.  Changes like that should be 
submitted upstream and given a chance to filter down, because we really don't 
want to commit to that sort of maintenance.

-- 
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64 at n-man.com

http://n-man.com/

LinkedIn:
http://linkedin.com/in/nman64

Have I been helpful?  Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
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