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Re: Fedora-websites-list Digest, Vol 34, Issue 14



My experience as a web architect in a similar CMS interactive environment like this was to first implement a bug tracker system, and then work in priority sequence to what the site structure needed through out the ongoing development cycle. Since the people are the voice of Fedora it only makes sense to add a secure API that users can easily add in their concerns with out making it too difficult.The best thing I've seen yet is a page that users could submit their errors, or suggestions to the bottom of the page to be submitted to the DB for review into the bug tracker.

For the versatile structure requirements of the Fedora CMS I am definitely also leaning towards Drupal.org. It has an open enough infrastructure to add in a number of great features and is ported for easy adoption of new technologies as they come rather than being locked down. Being able to adapt easily is a big concern as we're facing the movement of the entire infrastructure onto a new base. I would naturally encourage everyone to keep looking as there's tons of amazing CMS out there but this one seems to be the best fit I've seen so far. Adopting ajax menu's for suggestions as people entered in key words would be an asset to keeping the system more efficient, and  getting results simple for users. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that keeping things organized is the easiest way to maintain the site.

Adam J. Humphreys

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 7:44 PM, <fedora-websites-list-request redhat com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: one CMS (Ricky Zhou)
  2. Re: need help (Karsten 'quaid' Wade)
  3. CMS eliminators (Stephen John Smoogen)
  4. Re: CMS eliminators (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams)
  5. Re: one CMS (Karsten 'quaid' Wade)
  6. Re: one CMS (Karsten 'quaid' Wade)
  7. Re: CMS eliminators (Karsten 'quaid' Wade)
  8. Re: one CMS (Ricky Zhou)
  9. Re: Websites Meetings (Craig Thomas)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:34:55 -0400
From: Ricky Zhou <ricky fedoraproject org>
Subject: Re: one CMS
To: fedora-websites-list redhat com
Message-ID: <20080814173455 GA19863 Max>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On 2008-08-13 04:01:35 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
> We need one CMS solution (for sanity sake), although >1 install might be
> OK(?), to cover:
>
> * fedoraproject.org
> * docs.fedoraproject.org
If you don't mind, I'd like to focus this discussion on
docs.fedoraproject.org first - the way I see it, if a CMS won't work for
docs, then it's not worth using it on fp.o (plus maintaining a
completely separate setup for docs).

The one main requirement (featurewise) from fp.o would be not breaking
translator workflows.  What features/use cases does docs need/want?

Thanks,
Ricky
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 11:43:15 -0700
From: "Karsten 'quaid' Wade" <kwade redhat com>
Subject: Re: need help
To: Sean <kilpatms speakeasy net>, webmaster
       <webmaster fedoraproject org>
Message-ID: <1218739395 31796 6 camel calliope phig org>
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On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 14:19 -0400, Sean wrote:

> I have tried the FAQs and the FEdora Project wiki without success.

Recommend you try fedora-list or #fedora:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate#User_Mailing_Lists
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate#IRC

- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:48:46 -0600
From: "Stephen John Smoogen" <smooge gmail com>
Subject: CMS eliminators
To: fedora-websites-list redhat com
Message-ID:
       <80d7e4090808141248l26939d5dn6d43b19d74b34c14 mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sadly, one of the first issues in choosing a CMS will be what
'language' it is written in. I say sadly because this can also be the
first of a long seige war where people who believe that embedded COBOL
is the only way to write a CMS [isn't that what the C stands for] will
bring it up every couple of weeks. In looking at a CMS, are there
going to be certain 'languages' that are off the table from the
beginning? (mod_cobol is probably one).

A year ago, I would have said any CMS written in PHP would have had a
tough slog onto Fedora infrastructure, but with Mediawiki I think that
has been put to rest. But it would probably have to be shown that any
PHP CMS could work with various known to be bad or tough to secure
features turned off.


--
Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux
How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed
in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:38:31 -0400
From: Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ivazqueznet gmail com>
Subject: Re: CMS eliminators
To: fedora-websites-list redhat com
Message-ID: <1218749911 11246 57 camel ignacio lan>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 13:48 -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> A year ago, I would have said any CMS written in PHP would have had a
> tough slog onto Fedora infrastructure, but with Mediawiki I think that
> has been put to rest. But it would probably have to be shown that any
> PHP CMS could work with various known to be bad or tough to secure
> features turned off.

There is drupy, but I don't know if it's in a usable state yet.

http://drupy.net/

--
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ivazqueznet gmail com>

PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:19:44 -0700
From: "Karsten 'quaid' Wade" <kwade redhat com>
Subject: Re: one CMS
To: fedora-websites-list redhat com
Message-ID: <1218752384 31796 14 camel calliope phig org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 13:34 -0400, Ricky Zhou wrote:
> On 2008-08-13 04:01:35 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
> > We need one CMS solution (for sanity sake), although >1 install might be
> > OK(?), to cover:
> >
> > * fedoraproject.org
> > * docs.fedoraproject.org
> If you don't mind, I'd like to focus this discussion on
> docs.fedoraproject.org first - the way I see it, if a CMS won't work for
> docs, then it's not worth using it on fp.o (plus maintaining a
> completely separate setup for docs).
>
> The one main requirement (featurewise) from fp.o would be not breaking
> translator workflows.  What features/use cases does docs need/want?

You are totally correct.  My reason for jamming it together was to
capture and move one-time the various ACL'd pages in the wiki.  Another
option we've discussed previously is to move them to e.g. Packaging:
namespace.  Then we have to re-jiggle the default search, etc.  But it
is far less disruptive.

Ideally we'd match or improve the l10n workflow, such as by kicking out
PO files from the CMS in to Transifex.

- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:30:17 -0700
From: "Karsten 'quaid' Wade" <kwade redhat com>
Subject: Re: one CMS
To: fedora-websites-list redhat com
Message-ID: <1218753017 31796 19 camel calliope phig org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 09:49 -0500, Yannick Lyn Fatt wrote:

>
> What about Drupal? http://www.drupal.org

Drupal is certainly a fine CMS, filled with features, and has a strong
community as well as commercial presence.

In this discussion, we want to be careful of putting the cart before the
horse, an _expression_ that means in this context, "Let's first figure out
what features we need and don't need, then we'll work on which tool fits
those features best."

- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:35:44 -0700
From: "Karsten 'quaid' Wade" <kwade redhat com>
Subject: Re: CMS eliminators
To: fedora-websites-list redhat com
Message-ID: <1218753344 31796 25 camel calliope phig org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 13:48 -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> Sadly, one of the first issues in choosing a CMS will be what
> 'language' it is written in. I say sadly because this can also be the
> first of a long seige war where people who believe that embedded COBOL
> is the only way to write a CMS [isn't that what the C stands for] will
> bring it up every couple of weeks. In looking at a CMS, are there
> going to be certain 'languages' that are off the table from the
> beginning? (mod_cobol is probably one).
>
> A year ago, I would have said any CMS written in PHP would have had a
> tough slog onto Fedora infrastructure, but with Mediawiki I think that
> has been put to rest. But it would probably have to be shown that any
> PHP CMS could work with various known to be bad or tough to secure
> features turned off.

Security history and responsiveness is pretty high on the list.  I
presume we can express that to cover language, if needed.  We can put up
features such as, "Written on modern technology with a vibrant community
and likelihood of being popular beyond the next twelve months."

But, yes, I think the days of something being off the list entirely
because of language should be over.

One reason is the way popular tools and languages draw in more
contributors to Infrastructure and Websites.  By my count, we picked up
a couple of kick-ass contributors just in moving to MediaWiki.  I expect
if we pick another popular CMS, even PHP based :D, we'll see a similar
intake of new talent who are passionate about the $CMS and are ready to
be part of the larger Fedoraverse.

- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:09:39 -0400
From: Ricky Zhou <ricky fedoraproject org>
Subject: Re: one CMS
To: fedora-websites-list redhat com
Message-ID: <20080814230939 GA4264 Max>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On 2008-08-14 03:19:44 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
> You are totally correct.  My reason for jamming it together was to
> capture and move one-time the various ACL'd pages in the wiki.  Another
> option we've discussed previously is to move them to e.g. Packaging:
> namespace.  Then we have to re-jiggle the default search, etc.  But it
> is far less disruptive.
Ah, that makes sense - so we can add fine-grained ACLs to the list of
stuff to want, then hopefully focus on docs's publishing workflow needs.
I don't know if we want to move both at the same time, though.  I'd
*hate* to end up using anything for the website that docs would not end
up using long term as well.

Either way, I'm just bringing this up in the context of finding good
candidates.  Just something to keep in mind when listing features that
we'd want in a CMS.

Thanks,
Ricky
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 19:44:22 -0400
From: "Craig Thomas" <bicycle nutz gmail com>
Subject: Re: Websites Meetings
To: fedora-websites-list redhat com
Message-ID:
       <dcfb610d0808141644x35c5372fw131803da37e05044 mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Max Spevack <mspevack redhat com> wrote:
> I'm taking my summer vacation starting tonight, and I won't be back until
> next Wednesday, so I'll be missing both of these meetings.

Hi all,

I have recently returned to the world from same :)

>
> Which brings me to a larger topic:
>
> A couple of months ago when Mike McGrath asked someone to start holding
> Websites meetings regularly, I volunteered because I wanted to step in and
> fill a need.  But as you all know, I am not deeply active in the day to day
> coding or design that goes on in Fedora Websites.  It was always the
> objective that once some momentum had been built up, and there were a number
> of tasks being worked through, that "leadership" of the Websites project
> could transfer to someone in the community who wanted to step into that
> role.
>
> Are we ready for that yet?  Is anyone feeling inspired?

I am surprised no one responded to this post, and I don't think we are
there yet. Inspiration is only part of the puzzle for me, time is the
major factor ( i can barley make the meetings you are running :), and
I am sure that is true of others.  Growing a bit more couldn't hurt.
Anyway, to your plan...

> Here's the critical path, IMHO:
>
> (1) get-fedora into F10 shape, and incorporating a link to (2), below.

My name is next to this one and I am not sure what our plan is? what
are we planning to do to improve this? I am happy to work on anything
we decide on/want to see, offer opinions or do mockups...Let's make
'getting fedora' better. I have read this, but I am not sure what we
want to do for the user to make it better:

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2008-June/msg00231.html

> (2) spins.fp.o into small, achievable milestones.  The first milestone,
> IMHO, needs to be a "spin information page" which contains basic information
> about the spin, a .ks and a link to torrents, ISOs (wherever they are
> hosted), or other download mechanisms.  The second milestone is a basic
> index of all spins.  The third milestone is workflow to automate the
> addition and deletion of spins from the index.

> (3) Finding, developing, and recruiting people who are interested in web
> application development.  Making it as SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE for someone to
> have a turbogears application, with Fedora look and feel, up and running on
> a test instance somewhere in our infrastructure.
>
> (4) Respond to whatever comes up on a weekly basis that needs attention.
>
> That's my little roadmap.  What do y'all think?

I think it's the right path, and I think we still need you to bust
trail :)  I will bring up item 1 in the next meeting, but don't know
anything about 2 other than it was to be a web app of sorts, and not
just a set of static pages.

my $.02

--
Craig

>
> --Max
>



------------------------------

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