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Re: meeting minutes from last night



Asgeir Frimannsson wrote:
Overwhelming the user is my main concern, yes. Using the extra 200 px for an application-based menu/toolbox/help-view, rather than cramming it in the remaining 80%, would be much more favorable than 'wasting' it on a sub-optimal global navigation.

You know, this all sounds well and good, but means absolutely nothing without user feedback and testing of the specific designs we are discussing. Of which we have nothing to back either of our claims as mentioned earlier.

You wouldn't worry more about having 8 tabs horizontally across the top,
their German translations making the last two or three tabs scroll
horizotnally or jump down the next row? I don't think i18n is really a
good justification for your stance here.

That depends on how dominant this menu is on the page. To me, a global navigation on a site like fpo should be clearly visible, but also easily 'ignorable' when working within a specific application. For example, google.com has 12 Items in its' global menu (7 navigation, 5 other) when logged in, and is localised in many languages, including German (which naturally takes more space).

The Google.com bar you mention is for global naviation between separate Google.com applications, not for navigation within a single application.

Remember that this navigation bar is not meant for global navigation between sites or even between separate applications, as I said before it is for navigation within a single application. I know quite well the arguments against global navigation and I also do not think they apply here as this is not a global navigation bar. To navigation between various Fedora applications and sites it's been proposed to have a customizable, very small bar (~40px tall) at the top or even bottom of the screen to point to other applications very much in the style of the Google.com bar you mentioned.

If the target is a site where the global navigation is a dominant element of the page, then yes, I see your point, and having these tabs horizontally wouldn't be feasible. But if the target is a Fedora themed 'frame' for applications to inherit, with a non-intrusive global navigation, then I think the proposal is a bit off target, and a smaller horizontal global navigation would be a better option. That's my 2 cents.

I think you've made an incorrect assumption about how the navigation bar is meant to be used. It's not global navigation, as I mentioned earlier in the thread it's for various areas within a single application. There is no global naviation in the mockups I've posted.

Re your 2 cents, you seem extremely interested in this. Would you mind making some mockups and designs as alternative proposals? I think that might be a lot more helpful than a long mailing list thread. I've spent the past month or so making mine. Can you invest that kind of time into this project? Because we are always looking for new websites team contributors. Our meetings are every Monday evening Eastern time, depending on the week 4 pm ET (next week) or 6 PM et (week after... it alternates)

I am happy that we are having discussions about the design on the list but at the same time I have seen time and time again discussions like this to put a destructive stop to a project making forward progress, and I would prefer to see this project get to the first major milestone and improve it from that point based on actual user feedback rather than just talk about design decisions that were made two months ago because I think that's a better way to make sure that this project doesn't get abandoned.

~m



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