Meeting Log 26/06/2009

[Hiemanshu Sharma]

* ricky has changed the topic to: Fedora Websites Meeting - Who's Here?
* mchua is here!
* ricky :-)
* hiemanshu is here!
* mchua volunteers to post logs after meeting.
* hiemanshu 's work got stolen by mchua
<mchua> hiemanshu: if you want to do it, be my guest :)
<hiemanshu> Sure
<ricky> nb|away: ping
<mchua> w00t!
<ricky> mizmo doesn't seem to about around either :-/
<ricky> s/about/be/
<hiemanshu> ricky, she is at FUDcon
<ricky> And markg85 couldn't make it today
<hiemanshu> Berlin
<ricky> Oh yeah, she mentioned that last time
* nb|away is a bit here, but has to leave in about 30 mins
<hiemanshu> great nb|away
<ricky> Hopefully she has access to some people to test with there :-)
* Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving")
* ricky has changed the topic to: Fedora Websites Meeting - Task List
<hiemanshu> I think 1)blogs.fp.o
<ricky> mchua: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Tasks is the
most recent URL, right?
<mchua> ricky: right.
<mchua> ricky: though I'd suggest zooming through that very, very
quickly and using http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites#Projects as a
better agenda list instead
<ricky> Ah, cool
<ricky> For the CMS item, docs has been packaging like crazy :-)
<hiemanshu> yeah i heard that yesterday as well
<mchua> my tasks are marked as "got hosed this week," but i'll do
join.fp.o stuff for an hour or so after this meeting
<ricky> They're working closely with upstream to get all the licensing
issues worked out - there may also be a test instance, although I
have'nt seen the URL yet
<ricky> Fedora Community can probably be taken off - that has been
deployed for a while now :-)
* mchua updates list
<ricky> ianweller has written and packaged an extension for the
mediawiki 302 redirects
<hiemanshu> mchua, blogs.fp.o we are working on that as well
<ricky> He might be at lunch now though
<ricky> I've been putting some thought into the decision making process stuff
<mchua> ricky: is that going to hit the list soon?
<ricky> Nothing totally solid yet, but I'd like to try out working
with sending patches to the mailing list and getting comments on them
before committig
<ricky> **committing
<ricky> Sure
<mchua> sweet
<ricky> That way it's easy for even new peple to keep track of what
changes are going on
<hiemanshu> ricky, but as onekopaka said, its a little too messy
<ricky> You all saw that with hiemanshu's get-fedora-all patch earlier
today - please make comments, even if it's just a "this is fine and
ready to push"
<mchua> another thing I've seen come in over the lists are messages to
webmaster@, which ricky seems to mostly be answering... is there
anything we can do to help with that queue?
<ricky> hiemanshu: It gets better once the process is worked out.
Like how you had trouble with sending the patch the first few times
<ricky> Documentation for sending patches will be a first step
<hiemanshu> ricky, cant we have a Trac install like infra does?
<mchua> +1 for a patch-sending howto!
<mchua> hiemanshu: can we use bz? it's already up, docs is (sorta)
using it for a todo list.
<mchua> or they tried a bit, anyway, I haven't checked lately on how
that experiment went.
<ricky> We can have a trac, but it's much easier for contributors to
comment publicly and get their name out to us on the mailing list.
<ricky> It's also nice to have one place to go to find out what's
going on in websites.
<hiemanshu> mchua, ricky, this would be better to talk when he have
more people around
* mchua agrees
<ricky> Sure, and I'll bring it up on list as well.
<ricky> Anyway, next thing
<ricky> I think our priorities kind of got skewed - most people spent
the week working on blogs.fp.o instead of the other stuff we agreed on
:-/
* mchua will tinker with bz for a few minutes for fun, but doesn't
expect anything to come of it - just wanting to see what a websites
task list in bz would look like.
<ricky> But some work is better than nothing, definitely :-)
<mchua> hey, blogs.fp.o is important.
<mchua> should we go through projects and see what the status of each
is, see where we are right now?
<ricky> Sure, but for pretty much everything other than blogs.fp.o,
it'll be "same as last week"
<hiemanshu> mizmo and markg85 are not here
<mchua> well, blogs.fp.o isn't even on
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites#Projects, so that should at
least go up
<ricky> I was hoping that mizmo would be around to clarify what she
meant user gallery
<ricky> **meant by
<hiemanshu> ricky, thats what i have been waiting for before i can start
<nb|away> ricky, well, fwiw, i dont think I had anything else that I
was supposed to do, then hiemanshu and onekopaka ended up helping
<ricky> hiemanshu started looking at that a bit, but we wanted to be
clear on some technical details first
<ricky> nb|away: Yup, that's definitely fine
<nb|away> mchua, depends on if it is being considered a websites
project or a infrastructure project
<ricky> I'd consider it more of an infrastructure thing, but since
websites people working on it and are excited by it, it might as well
be added
<nb|away> yeah true
* hiemanshu agrees
<ricky> So are there any concrete goals that we should set for next
week on any of these tasks?
<mchua> I've got some for join.fp.o that I'm typing up right now
<mchua> for a lot of the projects, I'm just not sure what the next action is
<ricky> OK, that we can discuss.
<mchua> for instance, maybe on the decision making process it's "
ricky will be sending a draft
here's-how-to-present-your-patch-to-the-list checklist to the mailing
list " or... I'm not sure.
<ricky> For get.fp.o, the things I'd personally like to see a solution
to the x86_64 problem and the "experienced users need the DVD" issue.
<hiemanshu> ricky, no concrete goals i think
<mchua> ricky: get.fp.o goals++
<mchua> ricky: what's the "and for next week, towards this goal, we
should probably do X" thing?
* J5 (n=quintice at c-65-96-175-112.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined
#fedora-websites
<ricky> Hm, on one hand I don't want to rush things as important as
get-fedora, and on the other hand, I don't want it to get stuck on
inaction.
<hiemanshu> ricky, i ll make a few patched for get.fp.o and send it
over to the list with some screenshots
<ricky> One thing I'm wondering about is how x86_64 can be presented
in a way that doesn't hide KDE x86_64.
<hiemanshu> patches*
<ricky> hiemanshu: What is your proposed solution to presenting x86_64
KDE though?
<hiemanshu> ricky, have a bracket saying (x86_64 version)
<ricky> I think we generally agree that for now at least, x86 on the
front page is the friendliest choice, so x86_64 would need to be on a
differnt page
<ricky> Uh-oh, I'm sure the brackets will be highly debated, but send
in a patch and hopefully something good will come out of it
<hiemanshu> ricky, yes but we need to make it a little more obvious to
point to get-fedora-all
<ricky> Some good discussion, at the very least
<ricky> mizmo had a great idea for that - insert some keywords into
the get-fedora-all link
<ricky> So people scanning the page for x86_64 will know where to go,
for example.
<ricky> How to do that in a non-confusing way is still up for discussion though.
<ricky> Anyway, let's move on
<hiemanshu> ricky, i ll work out something and send over the pathces
<ricky> What is the next step to move fp.o forward?
<hiemanshu> patches*
<ricky> We came out with a list of things that users should be able to
do at fp.o
<hiemanshu> ricky, markg85 told me there is near to nil feedback on the site
<ricky> The last I heard of it markg85 was trying to get feedback on
fedora-websites-list.
<hiemanshu> <markg85> hiemanshu, just that i'm disappointed at the
feedback for fedoraproject.org from the websites mailinglist. To be
precise: 0 feedback. mizmo, you where right like you said.
* mchua updating
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites#get.fedoraproject.org to
reflect this convo - holle if I'm wrong
<ricky> OK, so maybe we should be trying other ways to get feedback then.
<ricky> Like people in real life are always good :-)
<hiemanshu> Yes
<mchua> well, maybe one action item for each of us would be to take
10-15 min and write up feedback that mark asked for
* kital has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<ricky> Hopefully mizmo will also have some feedback from FUDCon, so
this cna probably wait until she comes back
* mchua nods
* hiemanshu follows
<ricky> I'm kind of with mizmo on the "my feedback is pointless
without context" though.
<ricky> docs.fedoraproject.org
* onekopaka_ipod (n=onekopak at c-98-237-235-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has
joined #fedora-websites
<ricky> My action for that will be to bring my critiques to the docs
team - I haven't actually done that yet, and that's the obvious first
step
<ricky> join.fp.o - we can have plenty of good actions for that
<mchua> freshly added. I'll get crackin' on them. ;)
<ricky> for new and old contributors alike, it might be good to write
up your experiences getting involved and what hurdles there were
<ricky> Another thing to do is go to various group within Fedora and
map out their join processes
<ricky> If you can't map them out based on documentation on the wiki,
then that's definitely an area for improvement
<mchua> yep. oh, the process, not just the websites people go to?
<mchua> good call.
<ricky> (Same if you can't *find* the documentation on the wiki :-))
* mchua changes item
<mchua> *grin*
<ricky> Once we have a bunch of these mapped out, we can find the
common parts and ideally break it down into almost a howto format.
<mchua> yep.
<hiemanshu> yeah
<ricky> So that's one action - write up your experience/difficulties
and map out groups.
<mchua> when I get back from washington DC I'm going to ask mizmo and
eve and some designers to help go through these notes and make a "join
process heuristic"
<hiemanshu> ricky, the writing part is what mizmo meant by user gallery i think
<ricky> I'd be happy to write out my experiences with
packaging/infrastructure/web
* onekopaka_laptop (n=onekopak at c-98-237-235-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
has joined #fedora-websites
<mchua> (what makes a good join process, basically)
<mchua> ricky: awesome!
<ricky> hiemanshu: Well, I mean write out not as in to put up on a
site, but as something for us to analyze for ways to improve
* onekopaka_ipod has quit (Client Quit)
<ricky> So feel free to be critical and say "getting into websites was
not as easy as it could be because if XYZ"
<hiemanshu> ricky, yeah great idea, you mean something like feedback
<mchua> +1
<ricky> OK, so just for the record, can I ask which groups people will
be writing up their experiences on?
<mchua> I will do websites and packaging
<mchua> (actually, I'm already doing packaging:
http://blog.melchua.com/2009/06/21/n00bthoughts-producing-my-first-rpm/)
<hiemanshu> web/sysadmin/sysadmin-test
<ricky> Nice :-)
<mchua> I'll also look around the other groups and try to get the
newest members to write about their experiences
<ricky> Much appreciated, thanks!
<hiemanshu> great mccann
<hiemanshu> great mchua*
<ricky> OK, now...
* ricky has changed the topic to: Fedora Websites Meeting - Open Floor
<ricky> Does anybody have anything else they want to discuss before we close up?
<onekopaka_laptop> what did I miss?
<hiemanshu> onekopaka_laptop, just about everything
<onekopaka_laptop> I noticed
* onekopaka_laptop hates oversleeping
<mchua> onekopaka_laptop:  we'll mail out logs, no worries.
<ricky> onekopaka_laptop: We got some tasks for people to work on -
writing up their join processes to Fedora and what their
difficulties/thoughs on it were
<ricky> Any groups you'd want to write about for next week?
<onekopaka_laptop> yeah, I saw that on my iPOd
<mchua> ricky: open floor - do we need to worry about not having
anyone on translation?
<hiemanshu> ricky, the decision making process, do we have a general
opinion or we have heads on top, taking final decisions?
<nb|away> ricky, im a member of sysadmin/sysadmin-devel/sysadmin-test
<onekopaka_laptop> iPod*
<nb|away> and web
<nb|away> so i can write up those too
* mchua writes nb down
* mchua will send reminders to the list
<ricky> hiemanshu: That's one part I haven't fully thought out yet -
my first step was to get decisions in the open (posted to the mailing
list)
* mchua has also done irc interviews quite a bit before, if people
find it easier to schedule 30m to talk rather than "egh, a task I have
to do at some undefined point"
<ricky> But actually deciding yes or no...  I don't have a set of
rules for that yet.
<hiemanshu> ricky, we might have to work on that as well when you are
done with the infra work
<ricky> mchua: No for the translation question - translation is
something that happens thoughout, so it's not really its own task
<ricky> Yeah.  The decision making process is a hard one.
<hiemanshu> what i plan is to have a jury, say about N people whose
votes will count
<ricky> On one hand, we don't want good work to get lost, on the other
hand, we don't want bad work to go through, and on the other other
hand, we don't want to ever discourage people from doing work whether
it's used or not :-/
<ricky> I'm not crazy about voting for this sort of thing.  Showing
support is good, but if somebody is against a patch, for example, I'd
like to see a reasoned case for why the change doesn't benefit users
instead of just a "-1"
<mchua> ricky: thanks - i figure if by mid july we have no movement on
translation, then start panicking a little more, but that sounds good.
:)
<ricky> mchua: As long as the site stays translated, I'm happy :-)
<onekopaka_laptop> yep
<ricky> OK, so anybody else have anything they want to bring up?
<mchua> not me.
<hiemanshu> nothing for now
<ricky> All right then
<onekopaka_laptop> nope
* ricky has changed the topic to: Fedora Websites Meeting - Meeting Close
<ricky> Thanks for coming, everybody
<ianweller> whee

-- 
Regards,

Hiemanshu Sharma.