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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24.11.2016 16:11, Gabe Alford wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAGLxfGwcdg62LTkhx4kMZqB0UNWY6PB1=9DfPGv3pNP=JGOwKA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">On Thu, Nov 24, 2016 at 1:29 AM, Martin Basti <span
          dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:mbasti@redhat.com" target="_blank">mbasti@redhat.com</a>></span>
        wrote:<br>
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                On 24.11.2016 07:06, David Kupka wrote:<br>
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                  On 22/11/16 23:15, Gabe Alford wrote:<br>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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                    I would say that it is worth keeping in FreeIPA. I
                    know myself and some<br>
                    customers use its functionality by having the
                    clients sync to the IPA<br>
                    servers and have the servers sync to the NTP source.
                    This way if the NTP<br>
                    source ever gets disrupted for long periods of time
                    (which has happened in<br>
                    my environment) the client time drifts with the
                    authentication source. This<br>
                    is the way that AD often works and is configured.<br>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br>
                  Hello Gabe,<br>
                  I agree that it's common practice to synchronize all
                  nodes in network with single source in order to have
                  the same time and save bandwidth. Also I understand
                  that it's comfortable to let FreeIPA installer take
                  care of it.<br>
                  But I don't think FreeIPA should do it IMO this is job
                  for Ansible or similar tool. Also the problem is that
                  in some situations FreeIPA installer makes it worse.<br>
                  <br>
                  Example:<br>
                  <br>
                  1. Install FreeIPA server (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://ipa1.example.org" rel="noreferrer"
                    target="_blank">ipa1.example.org</a>)<br>
                  2. Install FreeIPA client on all nodes in network<br>
                  3. Install replica (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://ipa2.example.org" rel="noreferrer"
                    target="_blank">ipa2.example.org</a>) of FreeIPA
                  server to increase redundancy<br>
                </blockquote>
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            </div>
            <div>Why not have NTP look at a _srv_records?<br>
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    <br>
    Do ntpclients support this natively?  I just found some ugly hacks
    for chrony, i.e extra service that is dynamically changing config
    file.<br>
    But yes this may be way too, but dirty.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAGLxfGwcdg62LTkhx4kMZqB0UNWY6PB1=9DfPGv3pNP=JGOwKA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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            <div> </div>
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                class="">
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                  Now all the clients have <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://ipa1.example.org" rel="noreferrer"
                    target="_blank">ipa1.example.org</a> as the only
                  server in /etc/ntp.conf. If the first FreeIPA server
                  becomes unreachable all clients will be able to
                  contact KDC on the other server thanks to DNS
                  autodiscovery in libkrb5 but will be unable to
                  synchronize time.<br>
                  <br>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
              </span>
              This can be resolved by DHCP configured NTP. When NTP
              server changed, you just change DHCPd config and hosts
              conf will be synced.<br>
              We may keep NTP on IPA server side configured, but I'm
              voting for removing it from clients and document+endorse
              people to use DHCP (anyway distros have always enabled
              some time synchronization so it should naturally work
              without even in small deployments)<br>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>If NTP is still configured on the IPA server, this may
              be less of an issue. Not everyone has/is/will be using
              ansible. Also in secure environments, DHCP <br>
            </div>
            <div>is not allowed/used at all. <br>
            </div>
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    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAGLxfGwcdg62LTkhx4kMZqB0UNWY6PB1=9DfPGv3pNP=JGOwKA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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              Also NTP is somehow incompatible with containers, usually
              containers have time synchronized from host, and by
              default IPA client container don't do NTP configuration.<br>
            </blockquote>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Isn't that what the --no-ntp option in the client is
              for anyway? <br>
            </div>
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            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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              <br>
              Let deprecate it in 4.5<br>
              <br>
              Martin^2
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                <div class="h5"><br>
                  <br>
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                      On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 7:05 AM, Jan Cholasta <<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:jcholast@redhat.com"
                        target="_blank">jcholast@redhat.com</a>>
                      wrote:<br>
                      <br>
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                        On 22.11.2016 13:06, Petr Spacek wrote:<br>
                        <br>
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                          On 22.11.2016 12:15, David Kupka wrote:<br>
                          <br>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
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                            Hello everyone!<br>
                            <br>
                            Is it worth to keep configuring NTP in
                            FreeIPA?<br>
                            <br>
                            In usual environment there're no special
                            requirements for time<br>
                            synchronization<br>
                            and the distribution default (be it ntpd,
                            chrony or anything else) will<br>
                            just<br>
                            work. Any tampering with the configuration
                            can't make it any better.<br>
                            <br>
                            In environment with special requirements
                            (network disconnected from<br>
                            public<br>
                            internet, nodes disconnected from topology
                            for longer time, ...) time<br>
                            synchronization must be taken care of
                            accordingly by system<br>
                            administrator and<br>
                            FreeIPA simply can't help here.<br>
                            <br>
                            Also there are problems and weird behavior
                            with the current FreeIPA<br>
                            installers:<br>
                            <br>
                            * ipa-client-install replaces all servers in
                            /etc/ntp.conf with the ones<br>
                            specified by user or resolved from DNS. If
                            none were provided nor<br>
                            resolved the<br>
                            FreeIPA server specified/resolved during
                            installation it used. This<br>
                            leads in<br>
                            just single server in the configuration and
                            no time synchronization when<br>
                            this<br>
                            server is down/decommissioned.<br>
                            <br>
                            * ipa-client-install replaces the NTP
                            configuration. If there was any<br>
                            parts<br>
                            previously edited by system administrator
                            it's lost.<br>
                            <br>
                            * ipa-server-install adds {0-4}.$<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="http://PLATFORM.pool.ntp.org"
                              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">PLATFORM.pool.ntp.org</a>
                            to /etc/ntp.conf.<br>
                            What's the point in doing that? These
                            servers're already in the<br>
                            configuration<br>
                            file installed with ntp package.<br>
                            <br>
                            I have NTP-related WIP patches that solve
                            some of the issues but in<br>
                            general I<br>
                            would prefer to remove the whole thing
                            together with documenting "Please<br>
                            make<br>
                            sure that time on all FreeIPA servers and
                            clients is synchronized. On<br>
                            most<br>
                            distributions this was already done during
                            system installation."<br>
                            <br>
                            Can we mark NTP options deprecated in 4.5
                            and remove them and stop<br>
                            touching<br>
                            any time syncing service in 4.6?<br>
                            <br>
                          </blockquote>
                          <br>
                          Considering that default config is just fine
                          for normal cases, and given<br>
                          how<br>
                          poorly integrated it is into FreeIPA, I agree
                          with David. FreeIPA should<br>
                          get<br>
                          out of configuration management business.<br>
                          <br>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                        +1<br>
                        <br>
                        -- <br>
                        Jan Cholasta<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        -- <br>
                        Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-devel
                        mailing list:<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-devel"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.redhat.com/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/freeipa-devel</a><br>
                        Contribute to FreeIPA: <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.freeipa.org/page/Contribute/Code"
                          rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.freeipa.org/page/Co<wbr>ntribute/Code</a><br>
                        <br>
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