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[K12OSN] up2date



Well,
I ran up2date again.  this time it doesn't seem to have affected any of my configurations, except, it appears to have deleted all of my Mozilla favorites files.  That's not a tragedy, but it is annoying to say the least.
I had bookmarked a numbero f How-Tos and other valuable information which I now must ferret out again.
Why do the updates screw stuff up?  I'm becoming reluctant to use them.

tony

http://www.School-Library.net
Read, Connect, Learn!


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>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Re: K12OSN digest, Vol 1 #215 - 8 msgs (Jonathan Bartlett)
>   2. Re: Vendors (Tom Brown)
>   3. Re: DHCPd help: NT & LTSP on the same network (Steve Wright)
>   4. Re: K12OSN digest, Vol 1 #217 - 7 msgs (anthony baldwin)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 10:30:20 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jonathan Bartlett <johnnyb eskimo com>
>To: k12osn redhat com
>Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Re: K12OSN digest, Vol 1 #215 - 8 msgs
>Reply-To: k12osn redhat com
>
>I don't know if you have been responded to yet or not, but anyway, here is
>how I see it.
>
>1) Your printer is probably broken in some way.  Sorry, tough luck.  There
>is probably some problem that Linux can't recover from, but Windows can.
>The only thing I can think to tell you is to copy the last 1000 lines from
>/var/log/messages 10 minutes after you attempt a print.  Also, send a copy
>of /etc/hosts
>
>2) On installations, are you installing the RPMs?  If you are, then more
>specific examples of what the program was and what the failed dependencies
>were would be helpful.  If you are installing from source, on any missing
>dependencies you need to have both the libraries and the development tools
>for the libraries.  Many libraries have a main RPM and a -devel RPM - to
>build from source you need both.
>
>There is a definite fault in the current packaging systems, at least how I
>view them.  The way that Windows gets by this is that most installations
>also include installations of all dependencies - which is why Windows
>programs have such large installers.  If you've ever upgraded MS Office,
>they basically give you most of the latest operating system.
>Unfortunately, I don't think the current Linux packaging systems allow you
>to include dependencies in the package, although it would be nice.
>
>Linux is currently best when it is set up by a geek.  Once that happens,
>anyone can easily use it.  Setting it up, especially if it involves adding
>packages that don't come with the distribution, is not trivial.  The base
>OS install is usually pretty easy, but adding things afterwards is
>sometimes less than straightforward.  One way around this is by getting a
>distribution that already has just about everything you could possibly
>want loaded onto  one of the 18 bazillion CDs it ships with.  This way,
>you don't have to worry about whether or not you have the dependencies you
>need when you install.
>
>Linux is a different mindset.  It's not harder, but it definitely is
>different - and it gives the user more control.  It is actually more
>straightforward, but being straightforward means that the user has to have
>some knowledge.  On non-straightforward systems, when problems occur, the
>only solution is "reinstall".
>
>Jonathan Bartlett
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Also, I have tried like the dickens to install a number of programs with absolutely no success and am becoming increasingly frustrated with this endeavour.  I have tried over and over with several distros to install kHangman and always get a failed dependencies msg.  I went and acquired the missing libraries AND couldn't install them either!  Have had simliar experiences trying to install and use gnErudite (scrabble clone).  Other products I have tried to install and/or use with no luck include Corel PhotoPaint for Linux, PostgreSQL (for which I paid dough), and Quanta, as well as more edutainment/games from Linux4kids.org .
>> the inability to install and use software built for this OS is maddening.  There is a great deal of awesome software available, it seems, but I can't get half of it to work. A very valid question, I should think, is why don't developers release programs WITH all necessary libraries included?  Perhpas I shouldn't complain if it were simply a matter of finding easily accessible files in one location and readily installing them, but I have spent hours and days trying to find libraries for programs, only to find that I can't install them without other libraries, etc, etc, in an infinite regression, world without end.
>>
>> I can not, for the dickens, play an audio cd, either, although realplayer and xmms will play mp3s and a few other formats and I can mount the CDRom with data/program cds (such as the PostgreSQL that I couldn't install).
>>
>> Okay, perhaps I should harass the PostgreSQL folks about their program, since I paid them for it...There is no install, configure, make, or even readme file on the entire disc they sent, so I'm lost.
>>
>> These kind of things I have more or less accepted for a while as I have played in Linux, but now that I have been using this OS for a while, I expect to be able to do these basic things and I can't.  I NEED to be able to do these things if I am to bring Linux to school as anything more than a curiosity and/or break out of windows.  I would like to have these issues resolved over the summer, at least.  I could install software, play cds and print in Windows within the first hour of using it.  Don't get me wrong, Windows crashes all the time and M$ are a bunch o greedy capitalist pigs to whom I wish to pay no more money, so I want to use Linux, but do I have to get a degree in Computer Science to perform routine functions like print documents?  Ease of use is precisely why Windows has such a monopoly.  I am interested in learning about software development and kernel hacking and all, and I know that those things will require great time and commitment, but printing should no!
t!
>, !
>!
>> nor should installing a program, in my estimation.  I suspect more reading might be helpful, but as a teacher, grad student and  single parent I get aobut 4 hours of sleep a night as it is.  No more time for reading...
>> Everytime I do up2date it seems I have to reconfigure the entire desktop and half the ui tools (mouse, etc), too.
>>
>> Am I just too stupid for Linux?  Too impatient?  I fear that my frustration is more apparent than suits me, but how can I hide it?  I have always been candid.
>> I do not expect everyone of these issues to be solved immediately, of course, but wish to make some major progress, now.  I have received some excellent assistance here on other issues, so submit this request with all respect and hope of meeting with similar success.  Please keep in mind that I am an English teacher whose only real programming experience (accepting Basic on an Atari 400 back in the dark ages) is writing web pages in html.  Over half of what I have read on this list might as well have been Chinese to me.
>>
>> I can not impress upon you well enough how much your efforts are appreciated.
>>
>> tony
>>
>>
>> http://www.School-Library.net
>> Read, Connect, Learn!
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email yourgroup org by Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> K12OSN mailing list
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>>
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 20:09:44 -0500
>To: k12osn redhat com
>From: Tom Brown <tbrown michiana org>
>Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Vendors
>Reply-To: k12osn redhat com
>
>Coast to Coast Memory has proven reliable and inexpensive.
>- http://www.18004memory.com/
>
>Tom
>
>At 06:05 PM 06/07/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>>What online vendors do you use to buy RAM and other hardware? (Not in
>>large quantities, I don't need much)
>>
>>I'm looking to purchase some RAM and two 40 to 80 Gigabyte IDE hard
>>drives for some web servers.
>>
>>Anyone have any recommendations out there on reliable and speedy online
>>shops that don't have any problem dealing with school districts?
>>
>>- James
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>K12OSN mailing list
>>K12OSN redhat com
>>https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
>>For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
>> 
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:34:02 +1200
>From: Steve Wright <paua quicksilver net nz>
>To: k12osn redhat com
>Subject: Re: [K12OSN] DHCPd help: NT & LTSP on the same network
>Reply-To: k12osn redhat com
>
>jam McQuil com wrote:
>
>>Steve,
>>
>>I'm not sure if the 'deny booting' will just ignore those
>>clients, or if it will send a 'DHCPNAK' reply to the client.
>>
>er, I wondered about that.  /var/log/messages mentioned the 
>DHCPDISCOVER, but
>not what my DHCPd replied with.   /var/lib/dhcp/dhcpd.leases indicates 
>NO leases
>were issued.  The win98 client seemed to be re-using an old address.
>
>What DID happen, was the DHCPd on the NT box spoke up immediately and said
>"DHCPINFORM from n.n.n.n not via eth0: not authoritative for subnet 
>192.168.0.0"
>Linux'  DHCPd then gave a little spiel about adding an 'authoritative' 
>directive.
>(all this in /var/log/messages)
>
>>
>>The difference is, that if it sends a DHCPNAK reply to the client,
>>then the client may just sit there and not do anything.
>>
>
>yup.  All booting clients on their network did that.  8-/  Not good.
>
>>
>>What you want to have happen is the dhcpd should completely
>>ignore those MSFT clients, and not reply in any way.
>>
>>I think you can force this by adding:
>>
>>   not authoritative;
>>
>>To the top of your dhcpd.conf file.  Read the manpage for
>>dhcpd.conf, and see what else it says about the use
>>of the authoritative statement.
>>
>
>Riiteeo.  I'll try the combination, and report back.
>
>Does anyone know what the vendor-class-ID is for Linux' DHCPClient (the 
>one that
>runs *after* the kernel has loaded.  (screen says "running dhclient" - 
>that bit.)
>
>Thanks Jim, Others.
>
>
>regards,
>Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 04:09:49 -0700 (PDT)
>From: anthony baldwin <mrbaldwin school-library net>
>To: k12osn redhat com
>Subject: [K12OSN] Re: K12OSN digest, Vol 1 #217 - 7 msgs
>Reply-To: k12osn redhat com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: yan seiner <yan cardinalengineering com>
>>To: k12osn redhat com
>>Date: 07 Jun 2002 07:03:03 -0400
>>Subject: [K12OSN] Install problems (was: Re: K12OSN digest, Vol 1 #216 - 12 msgs)
>>Reply-To: k12osn redhat com
>>
>>Tony:
>>
>>It sounds like you have some permissions problems.  Sorry if this is at
>>a too-basic level; I don't know enough about your background.
>
>Don't apologize, be as basic as possible.  I'd rather you insulted my intellegence and I was able to use the information than for you to assume I  know stuff I don't.  This was good:
>
>
>>
>>Linux has much, much tighter security than Windows.  In Windows (at
>>least the 9x/me variety) there really is no concept of security; anyone
>>can do anything.
>>
>>In Linux, ordinary users have very, very limited permissions to mess
>>with the OS itself.  'root' is the 'superuser' - the one who can do
>>anything.  Normally, you should run as an ordinary user, and only login
>>as root to do specific tasks like installing new system-software.  You
>>can install 'personal' software in your /home/user directory, including
>>any libraries you need, but then they'd only be available to you and not
>>to other users.
>
>Okay, I have generally been doing omst config stuff as root, including installation of software.
>
>>
>>There are a few tools you can use.  There is extensive logging
>>available; /var/log/messages is the main file for system messages.  You
>>can read the file as root only.  I usually use 'tail -f
>>/var/log/messages' - this will echo all messages to the terminal window.
>>
>>Most *nix apps have a 'debug' mode. For printing, for example. you can
>>run lpd (the printer service daemon) with the -D option; this will give
>>you debugging messages in /var/log/messages.
>
>Okay, you mena open the terminal and type #: run lpd -D  
>right?
>
>
>>> As a teacher one of the things I primarily need from a computer is the ability to produce and PRINT documents.  I still have not been able to get my printer to work.  It is a Compaq IJ1200/Lexmark z42 and the driver was included in the K12os.  I get a "localhost/localdomain bad" msg.  What does this mean and how do I fix it?  
>>
>>You can set the hostname using the /bin/hostname command.  Each NIC can
>>(and does) have its own hostname, as it is tied to the IP address.  You
>>can also set the hostname.domainname via DNS or /etc/hosts.
>>
>>For starters, make sure you have an /etc/hosts files; it *must* contain
>>the line
>>
>>127.0.0.1 localhost localhost.localdomain
>>
>>Unless you are running DNS, it should also contain a line setting the
>>name of the NIC on the local machine:
>>
>>my.ip.add.ress mymachine.name.com
>>
>>This should make your localhost errors go away.
>
>Okay, there were several "host" files, a host a host.conf.host.allow, and hosts.deny. and hosts.bak
>
>hosts.bak includes this:
>127.0.0.1      .      localhost.localdomain localhost
>
>I notice there is a period and the localhost.localdomain  localhost is inverted from what you've sent.  Shall I alter that?  Will that fix it?
>There is not my.ip.address...etc, is this because my IP is server assigned/dynamic?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>> Someone asked if I set the domain during installation, but I don't know what that's all about.  When it asked for a domain I though it was asking for an IP, and my IP is server assigned.  In using other distros I found that I could install the driver for this printer, but still could not print.  The printer dialogue box would come up and jobs were even sent to the queu and then dissipated as though the machine really believed it had printed them, but the printer never even burped. Now, with RH7.2 based k12os, it simply gives the localdomain/localhost bad msg and no further response. (admittedly, this printer gives me trouble in windows, too, occassionally--no dough to upgrade or replace presently)
>>
>>*nix uses name resolution as part of its security.  Basically, it takes
>>the name you give it and resolves to an address.  It then takes the
>>address and resolves it back to a name.  If the names don't match, you
>>either have a misconfiguration, or you have a possible security
>>violation.  In either case, apps will break.
>
>I didn't give it a name and don't know how or where to do so.  Is that what the hosts.bak file is about?
>
>I am not on a network here (just the adsl conection to internet).  I am talking about m desktop at home.
>
>
>>
>>> 
>>> Also, I have tried like the dickens to install a number of programs with absolutely no success and am becoming increasingly frustrated with this endeavour.  I have tried over and over with several distros to install kHangman and always get a failed dependencies msg.  I went and acquired the missing libraries AND couldn't install them either!  Have had simliar experiences trying to install and use gnErudite (scrabble clone).  Other products I have tried to install and/or use with no luck include Corel PhotoPaint for Linux, PostgreSQL (for which I paid dough), and Quanta, as well as more edutainment/games from Linux4kids.org .
>>
>>Without some detailed errors, it's hard to tell what's going on, but it
>>sounds like you may be trying to install as user instead of 'root'.
>>
>>> the inability to install and use software built for this OS is maddening.  There is a great deal of awesome software available, it seems, but I can't get half of it to work. A very valid question, I should think, is why don't developers release programs WITH all necessary libraries included?  
>>
>>Windows does this; this is IMHO one of the main reasons for its famed
>>instability.  Every app installation messes with the OS; so a single bad
>>isntallation can trash your entire system.  Pick your poison;
>>installation problems or broken systems.
>
>A friend, and huge M$ fan (does beta test for them), running XP and constantly spouting about how great it is just receieved a virus that wiped out his entire BIOS and destroyed his machine.
>I feel really bad, he's really my best friend and had put a lot of owork in to the machine, but, at the same time, I had to say, "Well, Bill, maybe you should give Linux a shot..."
>I will say that I do about 95% of all business I do on-line, whether working on my sites or reading mail or whatever, using my Linux OS for that particular reason.  Too many viruses going around for Windows.
>
>
>>
>>That being said, I've had good luck with most of the stuff from
>>linux4kids.org.
>
>I have ont been able to install a single game fro the CD I ordered from them...not a single one.
>
>>
>>> Perhpas I shouldn't complain if it were simply a matter of finding easily accessible files in one location and readily installing them, but I have spent hours and days trying to find libraries for programs, only to find that I can't install them without other libraries, etc, etc, in an infinite regression, world without end.
>>
>>www.rpmfind.net is usually a good source.
>>
>>>   
>>> I can not, for the dickens, play an audio cd, either, although realplayer and xmms will play mp3s and a few other formats and I can mount the CDRom with data/program cds (such as the PostgreSQL that I couldn't install).
>>
>>At least with RedHat, audio CDs should play out of the box.  I can't
>>speak for other distros, but I've not had any problems in many installs
>>since the 7.x series came out.
>
>I am using the Red Hat 7.2 based K12os.
>
>
>>
>>> 
>>> Okay, perhaps I should harass the PostgreSQL folks about their program, since I paid them for it...There is no install, configure, make, or even readme file on the entire disc they sent, so I'm lost.
>>> 
>
>>
>>Perhaps a good book on linux administration might help...
>
>I have several:  the Sybek Linux Complette (I love these sybek complete books) Linux Desk Reference (Hawkins), Running Linux (O'Reilly), Linux Network Admin Guide (O'Reilly) and Linux Programming A beginner's guide>
>I confess that I have mostly onely flipped throught them.  I have not found the time to thoroughly RTFM.
>
>
>.  I suspect more reading might be helpful, but as a teacher, grad student and  single parent I get aobut 4 hours of sleep a night as it is.  No more time for reading...
>>> Everytime I do up2date it seems I have to reconfigure the entire desktop and half the ui tools (mouse, etc), too.
>
>Nope. did up2date two days ago just fine, this time.  Probably had an issue last time becuase it updated some Xfreeconf files.
>
>I use the KDE, which gives me access to gnome apps, but has more stuff.
>
>>
>>Something is definitely broken.... I just installed RH 7.3 on top of
>>7.0, updated *all* of gnome from RH to Ximian, and lost *none* of my
>>settings (and they are extensive - multi-lingual support, etc).
>>
>>> 
>>> Am I just too stupid for Linux?  Too impatient?  I fear that my frustration is more apparent than suits me, but how can I hide it?  I have always been candid.
>>
>>The learning curve is steep.  There are basic books on *nix and linux in
>>particular.
>>
>>> I do not expect everyone of these issues to be solved immediately, of course, but wish to make some major progress, now.  I have received some excellent assistance here on other issues, so submit this request with all respect and hope of meeting with similar success.  Please keep in mind that I am an English teacher whose only real programming experience (accepting Basic on an Atari 400 back in the dark ages) is writing web pages in html.  Over half of what I have read on this list might as well have been Chinese to me.
>>
>>Again, the learning curve is steep.  *nix is not easy to administer;
>>there are many disparate parts that need to work together.  The good
>>thing is that *nix is modular; you can learn about each part in relative
>>isolation.  The trick is to isolate the problems.
>>
>>printing, for example, is (usually) run by a program called lpd.  'man
>>lpd' will bring up a basic help page.  At the bottom of the page is a
>>list of references, including a link to a mailing list and a web site. 
>>The web site will provide *tons* of information.  So you can break it
>>down:
>>
>>1) read the man page
>>2) visit the web site
>>3) read the maillist archives
>>4) if that doesn't help, join the mailling list and post your questions
>>
>>This process can be used for almost anything.
>>
>>Let's say you need help with 'hostname':
>>man -k hostname will bring up all of *nix commands that have anything to
>>do with hostname.
>>
>>'man man' will tell you how to use the manual.
>>
>>HTH,
>>
>
>
>Thanks for all of this assistance.
>
>tony
>_____________________________________________________________
>Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email yourgroup org by Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag
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>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
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>_______________________________________________
>K12OSN mailing list
>K12OSN redhat com
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>
>End of K12OSN Digest
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