[K12OSN] ummmm...RHPWS?

Jim Kronebusch jim at winonacotter.org
Mon Mar 1 13:03:06 UTC 2004


I wholeheartedly agree and will try to keep such debate off of this
list.  Thanks for brining us into check :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: k12osn-admin at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-admin at redhat.com] On Behalf
Of Jim Hays
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 12:01 PM
To: k12osn at redhat.com
Subject: Re: [K12OSN] ummmm...RHPWS?


Please play nice.  If you feel that you must engage in a Linux/MS 
debate, find another forum.  The people here are trying to get K12LTSP 
to work and use this forum for that purpose.  Since most of us here are 
educators who are trying to incorporate K12LTSP into schools - where 
Windows and Macs live - the subject of moving from Windows to Linux will

come up often.  What we don't need when that issue comes up is someone 
making comments about how bad Windows is or how easy Linux is to use. 

I belong to another list where this topic almost destroyed an otherwise 
wonderful list.  There was name calling and it got pretty ugly.  We 
ended up banning one person from the list because of it.  Please, let's 
not let that happen here.

Many of us are working in an environment where Windows not only exists, 
but will exist for years to come.  It will not "go away".  We are 
working to incorporate Linux into this environment and to educate our 
users to think about applicatons and needs and not about brand names and

software titles.  This is a very difficult chore indeed.  (I know.  I 
have been fighting this battle on several fronts for 7 years.) 

Name calling and sarcasm will not accomplish anything. 

Take it outside.


Jim Kronebusch wrote:

>-----Original Message-----
>From: k12osn-admin at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-admin at redhat.com] On 
>Behalf Of Les Mikesell
>Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:18 AM
>To: k12osn at redhat.com
>Subject: RE: [K12OSN] ummmm...RHPWS?
>
>
>On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 08:02, Jim Kronebusch wrote:
>
>  
>
>>No offense to Linux, I do think it is awesome, especially from where
>>it was a few years ago.  But I still don't think I could throw it in 
>>front of my Mom for a everyday home computer and not get some calls 
>>the first time she tries to install an application (missing 
>>dependancies, how to add shorcuts, etc.).
>>    
>>
>
>Is your Mom available for help with windows problems?  I need to 
>reinstall a box that originally came with 21 CDs and I've added several

>new devices and programs so I know it is going to involve inserting 30 
>cd's in exactly the right order, looking up about 10 installation key 
>codes, and rebooting at least 50 times.
>
>  
>
>>That is the "polish" to which I refer.  Microsoft
>>has made it very easy for stupid people to own a computer (of course
>>maybe we would all be better off if they didn't), it still would be 
>>tough for those people to switch.
>>    
>>
>
>They made it easy by forcing the PC vendors to pre-install so the end 
>users aren't exposed to the horrors.
>
>  
>
>>  A couple examples are setting up dual
>>monitors or loading a DVD player, I will bet that with both of those
>>tasks you will have the better part of an afternoon shot with Linux, 
>>MS about 20 minutes (A beginner, not savvy Linux user).
>>    
>>
>
>That depends on how long it takes you to find the checkbox that says 
>you want dual monitors in the fedora X setup.  With DVD's a better 
>comparison would be when you add the second one or trade brands when 
>the crippled software that comes with it only supports the brand it is 
>supplied with as a ploy to force you to buy the full version.
>
>'yum install ...' seems pretty nice by comparison.
>
>---
>  Les Mikesell
>   les at futuresource.com
>
>I appreciate your argument and again, I love Linux. But the Fedora dual

>monitor checkbox doesn't work very well, and I was lucky enough to run 
>yum install to load a DVD player and found that it hung all the time, 
>then had to go down the road of trying to rebuild a bad database.  
>There are still issues.  Microsoft isn't perfect, I hate their 
>practices, I am working toward switching everything I run into to 
>Linux, but useability for dummies has a way to go.  I can see we don't 
>agree here so lets just leave our opinions at that.
>
>Again I love Linux and appreciate all the help I have been getting from

>this list and am doing my best to learn how to switch MS users to the 
>Linux world.  From what I have seen most of the issues I run into will 
>be resolved by this time next year and I will no longer have an 
>argument (nor will anyone else).
>
>
>
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>  
>


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