[K12OSN] Release cycle too fast

Fri Apr 1 19:32:16 UTC 2005

Rob,

I really can't answer about Fedora, because I don't use it.  But I know
you can do that with Debian.  Unfortunately, the release cycle for
debian is so long :(

Jim McQuillan
jam at Ltsp.org

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005, Rob Owens wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Just to be clear, are you saying that I can apt or yum
> from one release version and end up with the latest
> release version?  for example, using yum to upgrade
> from FC2 to FC3.
>
> -Rob
>
> --- Jim McQuillan <jam at mcquil.com> wrote:
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > What you've described below is exactly how apt works
> > with debian.
> >
> > and I think that's how yum works on fedora.
> >
> > Jim McQuillan
> > jam at Ltsp.org
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 1 Apr 2005, Rob Owens wrote:
> >
> > > I realize that I'm asking for a lot, and I don't
> > want
> > > it interpreted as me being ungrateful.  I'm just
> > > trying to give input from the point of view of
> > > somebody who is primarily a user, and not an
> > > administrator.
> > >
> > > I realize that I can manually install packages,
> > and
> > > even source if I need to.  I've done it before,
> > but
> > > one of the really great things about linux is the
> > > automatic dependency-checking installers like apt,
> > > yum, urpmi (for Mandrake).  But keeping an old
> > system
> > > up to date without that would mean being on an
> > email
> > > list for every application that the old system
> > runs so
> > > I could keep informed of security updates.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the explanation of applications,
> > libraries,
> > > etc.  I'm still a bit confused about it.  I don't
> > > understand why this situation is not possible:
> > I'm
> > > running FC1.  Application "xyz" needs updating,
> > but no
> > > packages are available because FC1 is unsupported.
> > > yum xyz2 to get the updated package from the FC2
> > > repository.  But xyz2 requires abc version 2.  My
> > > system has abc version 1.  yum uninstalls xyz1,
> > > uninstalls abc version 1, installs abc version 2,
> > and
> > > installs xyz.  Of course, it also has to take into
> > > account what else depends on abc version 1 and
> > upgrade
> > > that to a version that can use abc version 2.  It
> > gets
> > > complicated, but isn't that what these packaging
> > > systems are supposed to do?  Conceivably, with
> > enough
> > > updates, my FC1 system could become FC2.  At least
> > > that's the way it seems to me, so tell me why I'm
> > > wrong.  (I'm sure I am, otherwise we'd already be
> > > doing it that way).
> > >
> > > -Rob
> > >
> > > --- Petre Scheie <petre at maltzen.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > When you consider that "an application" isn't
> > really
> > > > a single entity but rather  a
> > > > collection of files--the main executables,
> > myriad
> > > > support libraries, drivers,
> > > > etc.--updating even just one application isn't
> > > > updating just one thing.  And very often,
> > > > those support libraries and drivers are used by
> > more
> > > > than one application--that's the
> > > > point of an operating system.  So, a problem is
> > > > found in one of the libraries, and a new
> > > > version is created that fixes the problem.  But
> > that
> > > > change may mean that some
> > > > applications have to also be changed to work
> > with
> > > > the new library.  Most distros come
> > > > with more than 2000 applications, many
> > > > inter-related. And many/most of those
> > > > applications are being further developed. In
> > some
> > > > ways, it's amazing they don't release
> > > > new versions more often than they do.
> > > >
> > > > Having said that, you don't need to upgrade the
> > > > whole OS just to keep, for example, SSH
> > > > current.  You DO have to step outside the
> > automated
> > > > tools the Distro vendor provides,
> > > > and go to installing the packages manually, but
> > on a
> > > > 'older' system that is relatively
> > > > static--that is, you're not adding additional
> > > > functionality--that's not that hard.  I
> > > > have some RH 8 boxes in which we just upgrade
> > the
> > > > SSH package as necessary.
> > > >
> > > > If you want to buy 'tires' for your
> > > > more-than-two-year-old system, and 'buy' is the
> > key
> > > > word here, check out progeny.com.  For $60 per
> > year
> > > > per box, they will provide patches
> > > > for your Red Hat 7.2, 7.3, 8.0, systems, and
> > other
> > > > custom platforms for a fee.  For a
> > > > business, it's a pretty good deal.  If you want
> > FREE
> > > > updates you have to go where free
> > > > stuff is available, and that means things like
> > > > Fedora.  Perhaps linux usage will some
> > > > day reach a critical mass such that there will
> > be
> > > > enough people involved that there will
> > > > be some interested in continually maintaining
> > older
> > > > distributions for free.  But I
> > > > suspect that day is a ways off yet.
> > > >
> > > > Petre
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
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> > >
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