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Re: [K12OSN] Help me fight FUD



Hi Shawn,

I'm using OO 1.1.4 to create presentations.

My wife can open them in Office 97 (because she won't upgrade to Office
2000).

I then take it down to the campus lab and run it under Office Pro 2000.

The only problems I seem to encounter are slight format changes, usually
related to differences in fonts. 
Most of my problems relate to my skill level, I don't generally use
presentation software.

The biggest problem I had was running videos/movie clips. That can be
overcome by running a small bash script that calls MPlayer and the video
clip. I found a couple of message relating to this using Google.

Cheers,
Bert Rolston





> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 15:16:17 -0400
> From: Shawn Powers <spowers inlandlakes org>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Help me fight FUD
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <F70B0A30-9CA8-4F0A-A450-952E8A149BD7 inlandlakes org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> 
> On May 19, 2005, at 2:52 PM, Mark Cockrell wrote:
> 
> > They'd rather hang on to the aging copy of MS
> > Office 97 they know,
> 
> I would have them try OO on those powerpoints...  That's an old  
> enough version of office that I think OO would do nicely displaying  
> them.
> 
> So I guess "try to break it and see what happens" would be a valid  
> starting point.
> 
> -Shawn
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 14:18:42 -0500
> From: Petre Scheie <petre maltzen net>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] yum installs
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <428CE692 8080705 maltzen net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> That works.  Thanks.
> 
> Eric Harrison wrote:
> > 
> > With an older version of yum (such as the one in 3.0.1), I think you
> > need to drop the "all":
> > 
> >     yum list
> > 
> > -Eric
> > 
> > Petre Scheie wrote:
> > 
> >> I should have mentioned that this is on a RH8/K12ltsp 3.0.1 box.  So,
> >> the repositories listed are correct.
> >>
> >> Gavin Chester wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 07:59 -0500, Petre Scheie wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hmmm.  Thinking this sounded like a good idea, I tried 'yum list
> >>>> all', but all I got was
> >>>>
> >>>> Gathering package information from servers
> >>>> Getting headers from: Fedora Linux / stable for Red Hat Linux 8.0 
> >>>> (i386)
> >>>> Getting headers from: K12LTSP for Red Hat Linux 8.0 (i386)
> >>>> Getting headers from: Macromedia Flash Player for Red Hat Linux 8.0
> >>>> Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 8.0 (i386)
> >>>> Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 8.0 (i386) updates
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A couple of things come to mind:
> >>>
> >>> 1/ you could try yumex as a GUI for yum to see all the packages listed
> >>> in front of you in a nice, ummmm, GUI.
> >>>
> >>>     ... but, that will only work if you have the correct repositories
> >>> configured, so ...
> >>>
> >>> 2/ You seem to have the wrong repositories since yours all point to RH8
> >>> instead of FC3 that is the basis of k12ltsp 4.2.0.  Support for RH8
> >>> would only be found in legacy repos - or did you say that already?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > K12OSN mailing list
> > K12OSN redhat com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> > For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 14:20:07 -0500
> From: Bill Bardon <bill computassist com>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Help me fight FUD
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <20050519142007 1994a5bf localhost localdomain>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> On Thursday, May 19 Shawn Powers wrote:
> > I would have them try OO on those powerpoints...  That's an old  
> > enough version of office that I think OO would do nicely displaying  
> > them.
> 
> Also, the latest beta of OOo 2.0 is supposed to have enhanced MS
> compatibility.  It might be worth installing OOo 2.0 beta to see if it
> makes a difference.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bill Bardon
> COMPUTASSIST
> Omaha, Nebraska
> http://www.computassist.com
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:30:10 +0000
> From: dahopkins comcast net
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Help me fight FUD
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<051920051930 6 428CE941000EDC710000000622007347489C0207059F01080E0B comcast net>
> 	
> 
> > Some of these teachers have dozens of PowerPoint
> > presentations they've been using for years and the thought of having to
> > edit and reformat them all to account for the lack of Feature X in
> > OpenOffice is daunting.  They'd rather hang on to the aging copy of MS
> > Office 97 they know, than face the future of a modern office suite they
> > don't know. 
> 
> You don't say if this is a K12LTSP environ, or OO.o on WinXX. So ...
> What about  leaving that aging copy of Office 97 on the system.  Then, if Feature X is missing, they can use MS Office for that presentation, and someone else (you?) could edit the presentation to be OO.o compatible if necessary?  Also SO8 (OO.o 2?) has much better filters so it becomes less of an issue.  Of course, human nature being what it is, they probably would not switch to OO.o if MS 97 is still available.  If using LTSP, just put MS 97 on the server (under Wine) and restrict access to get same effect.
> 
> You can't ever guarantee that there will be 100% compatibility.  This is a very good example of the vendor lock-in issue and could be used as a case to actually move to OO.o even if issues will arise (look at the long term benefit vs short term pain).  If the district can accept that there will be some issues, then just be sure to have a plan to address them as they arise.  The teachers at NCS haven't had any real issues with SO7/OO.o.  Also, some now have OO.o at home as well because it was just simpler than worrying about potential incompatibilities.
> 
> > Have any of you fought this battle?  
> 
> I phased it in.
> Year 1-2) All students using OO.o without issues.
> Summer 2) School Director uses SO7 exclusively (removed MS Office from his system) for all needs.  Notices a few issues, but nothing major.
> Year 3) School Director announces at initial beginning-of-year teacher orientation that SO7 is the Office suite, and that it is his only suite, both at school and at home. Kind of short circuited teachers/staff saying they couldn't use it. ;)
> Coming Year) Moving to SO8.
> 
> Front Office staff systems) Left with a copy MS Office for 100% guaranteed compatibility with state DOE, but also have SO7 available.
> 
> > Does anyone have any references that I can point these people to in order to 
> > alleviate their  fears?  
> 
> I am sure you could contact the school director if desired, I would just need to provide him a heads-up.  Hesitant to publicly broadcast the number, so let me know if you want the number.
> 
> > I don't want to waste the backing of the administration 
> > on this,  but I don't want to be lynched by a frightened mob either.  Any 
> > (useful)  comments are welcome.
> 
> thanks for reading.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Dave Hopkins
> Newark Charter School
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:33:16 -0600
> From: Casey Woods <casey woods gmail com>
> Subject: [K12OSN] Multimedia
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <428CE9FC 6000102 gmail com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> The administration at my school is really keen on going big time with 
> LTSP technology.  We have a great network (Gbit backbone with 100 Mbit 
> to every desktop) so we have lots of bandwidth.  I also have a pretty 
> decent budget for buying a bunch of dual Opteron servers.
> 
> Here's my problem:  The students aren't just using the current Windows 
> 2000 PCs for Word and email (mostly P3s with 128MB ram).  The school has 
> access to a bunch of web-based multimedia resources (streaming video and 
> audio).  The concern is that we'll have to take that away if we move to 
> thin clients.
> 
> Suggestions?  Would a NoMachine client running locally do the trick?  If 
> I have tons of bandwidth will this run okay if I'm running rdesktop 
> locally and run everything off my MS terminal server?  Could I run 
> Firefox and the required media player(s) as local apps?  Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks,
> Casey Woods
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 15:38:47 -0400
> From: Dimitri Yioulos <dyioulos firstbhph com>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Help me fight FUD
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <200505191538 47439 dyioulos firstbhph com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Thursday May 19 2005 2:52 pm, Mark Cockrell wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >     We're looking at tossing MS Office entirely at our district in favor
> > of OpenOffice/StarOffice.  The administration recognizes the cost
> > benefit and the more technically savvy teachers are ok with the change.
> > So far no on has questioned the ability of OO.o to meet our future
> > needs.  The Fear Uncertainty and Doubt exist in relation our current
> > body of work.  Some of these teachers have dozens of PowerPoint
> > presentations they've been using for years and the thought of having to
> > edit and reformat them all to account for the lack of Feature X in
> > OpenOffice is daunting.  They'd rather hang on to the aging copy of MS
> > Office 97 they know, than face the future of a modern office suite they
> > don't know.  Have any of you fought this battle?  Does anyone have any
> > references that I can point these people to in order to alleviate their
> > fears?  I don't want to waste the backing of the administration on this,
> > but I don't want to be lynched by a frightened mob either.  Any (useful)
> > comments are welcome.
> 
> I may be wrong on this, as it was once an issue, but now...  Might try running 
> Powerpoint via Wine.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:00:05 +0000
> From: Tim Kaldahl <tkaldahl maplewoodacademy org>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Help me fight FUD
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <200505191800 05706 tkaldahl maplewoodacademy org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> On Thursday 19 May 2005 07:38 pm, Dimitri Yioulos wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > >   We're looking at tossing MS Office entirely at our district in favor
> > > of OpenOffice/StarOffice. The administration recognizes the cost
> > > benefit and the more technically savvy teachers are ok with the change.
> > > So far no on has questioned the ability of OO.o to meet our future
> > > needs. The Fear Uncertainty and Doubt exist in relation our current
> > > body of work.
> 
> Remind everyone about the change from Word Perfect to Word. That was supposed 
> to be the end of the world too. 
> 
> Tim Kaldahl
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 16:10:05 -0700
> From: "Sean Harbour" <SHarbour nwresd k12 or us>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] What hardware for Squid/Dansguardian?
> To: <k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<646574B39C491E4D8573C54D35FFE52CA01F5E wsc-mail-01 intra nwresd k12 or us>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> A P3-700 will typically handle at least 400 students, correctly configured. It may choke if there is a lot of multimedia going through it.
> 
> A dual Xeon 2.8Ghz will handle several thousand, given enough RAM and fast SCSI drives.
> 
> Memory is the most important, followed closely by CPU then disk speed.
> 
> An adequate system that is crippled by low memory and slow hard drives will not perform acceptably.
> 
> An adequate system with enough ram and a slow hard drive will work okay.
> 
> Given a choice, I would put more RAM in a proxy cache vs faster hard drives.
> 
> 128 MB is not enough for over 50 users, 256 MB over 200 users, 512 MB over 400 users typically. YMMV, but this is a good rule of thumb.
> 
> The top and sar commands are your friends. Make sure that the maximum memory in use is not maxed out within minutes. If the system load
> is staying consistently over 3, you definitely need more CPU or to reconfigure your filter settings. I like to see the CPU load stay under .7 except during heavy load spikes, then I don't want it going over 1.5 if possible. 
> 
> There are some performance tweaks you can do to the system to optimize it.
> 
> You can adjust the cache to hold more/larger objects in memory to reduce disk load, or less/smaller to reduce memory footprint.
> 
> You can use a fast lookup optimized file system such as reiserfs for a small disk performance boost.
> 
> You can change the filtering parameters. Just changing the phrasefiltermode setting in dansguardian.conf can half the cpu usage with very few downsides.
> 
> In short, a 500 Mhz PC, with 256 MB RAM and a 10 GB IDE hard drive should perform adequately as an internet filter for a facility with around a 100 students total on a 512Kb Dsl circuit . A 1 Ghz PC with 512 MB RAM and a 40 GB IDE hard drive should handle around 400 students adequately on a 1.5 Mb T1 circuit . A dual 3 Ghz Xeon with 2 GB RAM and several 10000 rpm SCSI drives should be able to handle several thousand students with a 10 Mb circuit fairly well.
> 
> For home use with dansguardian, I have seen acceptable performance with a dedicated Pentium 200 with 180 MB RAM on a cable modem, but some latency was noticeable. Latency was almost unnoticeable with an AMD 500 and 256 MB ram.
> 
> Of course, these parameters can vary widely from situation to situation, but they should at least get you into the ballpark.
> 
> Sean Harbour
> sharbour nwresd k12 or us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >Fortunately we have a local vendor who gave us an excellent ($1700)
> >price on a dual 2.8Ghz Xeon small server/graphics workstation box that
> >they had, which has worked out great for us.
> 
> >My hypothesis is that the single processor setup simply couldn't keep up
> >with the heat generated by doing so much work on the single unit, where
> >the dual processor setup spreads the load/heat around enough that the
> >fans can keep up.
> 
> >Of course I don't have any "technical data" to back this hypothesis up
> >(besides the fact that the new proxy hasn't had a problem since we put
> >it in), so your mileage most likely will vary.
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 00:07, Robert Arkiletian wrote:
> > What hardware is more important for a caching/filtering proxy server
> > that runs Squid/Dansguardian for a school of ~300 internet
> > connections.
> >
> > I'm thinking from most important to least
> >
> > 1) hard disks
> > 2) memory
> > 3) cpu
> >
> > Anyone agree/disagree? What min. sys. req. would people recommend?
> --
> Jonathan S. White
> Computer Technician
> Shaker Regional School District
> jwhite shaker k12 nh us
> (603) 267-9223
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:51:04 -0500
> From: "Dr. Daniel Loomis" <drloomis cox-internet com>
> Subject: [K12OSN] Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
> To: k12osn redhat com
> Message-ID: <1116550264 5468 15 camel harpo curmudgeon not>
> Content-Type: text/plain
> 
> I just updated my server from k12ltsp4.2 to 4.2.1 using CDROMs and now I
> get:
> 
> kernel panic - not syncing: Attempting to kill init
> 
> The error occurs when switching from the initrd to hd root.
> 
> The grub file looks ok and the kernel is 2.6.11-1.14_FC3smb
> 
> The root directory is on /dev/sda6 so I tried changing from 
>   root=LABEL=/1 to root=/dev/sda6, but get the same error message.  
> 
> The server is a Tyan 2460 with dual Athlon MP 1600, 29160 Adaptec scsi
> card and IBM 34gb scsi drive. Partitioning is as follows:
> 
> boot = /dev/sda1
> home = /dev/sda2
> var  = /dev/sda3
> usr  = /dev/sda5
> /    = /dev/sda6
> swap = /dev/sda7
> 
> I understand there were problems of the type reported above with kernel
> 2.6.9, but have not run across anyone having that problem in the 2.6.11
> kernels. I suppose it could be a problem with smp and acpi, but that has
> not been a problem in the past on this machine.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 20:02:37 -0500
> From: "Barry R Cisna" <brcisna frontiernet net>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill
> 	init!
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <009101c55cd7$9dbb29a0$01fea8c0 brcHOST>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Daniel..
> 
>     I had same prob with an clean install of  4.2.0. a few months back.
> 
>     It is your IPv6 "services"///settings,,
> 
>     I had to reformat several times,,on 4 differnet machines,, before i
> figured out,,what it was,actually was causing it..
> 
>     I'll put a list of things you need to disable in services[not
> needed],( that are enabled by default).,tomorow,FRI,after i can see what the
> services listings are.,
> 
>     You'll need to make sure your network wires are unplugged from both
> nics,, before you start to reformat!:(..
>     Then you have to disable some network services:>.then plug in your
> network wires,,AFTER disabling some services.
>     I would bet money that this happend to your servers >after< you
> rebooted,,one or two times.( This is how it happend on ours).
> 
>     I know this doesnt sound logical but Im sure this is your prob( I
> think)...:)..
>     Hope this gives some "hope" for figuring your prob.
> 
>     Barry
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dr. Daniel Loomis" <drloomis cox-internet com>
> To: <k12osn redhat com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:51 PM
> Subject: [K12OSN] Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init!
> 
> 
> > I just updated my server from k12ltsp4.2 to 4.2.1 using CDROMs and now I
> > get:
> >
> > kernel panic - not syncing: Attempting to kill init
> >
> > The error occurs when switching from the initrd to hd root.
> >
> > The grub file looks ok and the kernel is 2.6.11-1.14_FC3smb
> >
> > The root directory is on /dev/sda6 so I tried changing from
> >   root=LABEL=/1 to root=/dev/sda6, but get the same error message.
> >
> > The server is a Tyan 2460 with dual Athlon MP 1600, 29160 Adaptec scsi
> > card and IBM 34gb scsi drive. Partitioning is as follows:
> >
> > boot = /dev/sda1
> > home = /dev/sda2
> > var  = /dev/sda3
> > usr  = /dev/sda5
> > /    = /dev/sda6
> > swap = /dev/sda7
> >
> > I understand there were problems of the type reported above with kernel
> > 2.6.9, but have not run across anyone having that problem in the 2.6.11
> > kernels. I suppose it could be a problem with smp and acpi, but that has
> > not been a problem in the past on this machine.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > K12OSN mailing list
> > K12OSN redhat com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> > For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 20:59:05 +0000
> From: Ken Grant <kmgrant actaccess net>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] DHCP Questions - Putting a Windows client in FC3
> 	lab
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <428CFE19 6040604 actaccess net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Is the Windows client pulling an IP address?
> 
> If you run ipconfig /all you should get your IP address and gateway 
> information.
> 
> You can set both Firefox and IE to automatically detect proxy 
> settitngs.  This may be a good idea just in case your proxy server is 
> using a port other that 8080.  In Firefox go to Tool > Options and click 
> on the "Connection Settings" button.  In IE go to Tool > Options and 
> select Lan.
> 
> HTH,
> Ken
> 
> richard ingalls wrote:
> 
> >I have an existing FC3 classroom lab with one server a
> >just a few clients.  I need to add just one Windows
> >client into this room & it needs to have internet
> >access.  What are the settings I need to adjust on
> >either the client or the server to make this happen? 
> >The server goes through a squid/DG proxy server in my
> >bldg.
> >
> >I tried adjusting the TCP/IP settings on the Windows
> >client to obtain it's IP address automatically, but
> >couldn't get online with Firefox or IE.
> >
> >Any help is appreciated!  Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >		
> >Yahoo! Mail
> >Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> >http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >K12OSN mailing list
> >K12OSN redhat com
> >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> >For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 22:17:56 +0000
> From: Ken Grant <kmgrant actaccess net>
> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Installations in Tucson, AZ?
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <428D1094 1070501 actaccess net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hi Rita:
> 
> I'm in Wyoming, a fair bit away from you, but would gladly help you in 
> any way I can.
> 
> Ken
> ken hncswy org
> 
> Rita Gibson wrote:
> 
> >
> > I have been contacted by someone interested in k12ltsp and am 
> > wondering if there is anyone on this list that is in Arizona, or more 
> > precisely Tucson, AZ, that might be able to assist this school if they 
> > are interested in implementing a Linux based network?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Rita Gibson
> > RMSEL
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > K12OSN mailing list
> > K12OSN redhat com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> > For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 27
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 01:05:49 -0400
> From: Tom Hoffman <tom hoffman gmail com>
> Subject: [K12OSN] CoSN Primer
> To: "Support list for opensource software in schools."
> 	<k12osn redhat com>
> Message-ID: <92de6c8805051922052960d957 mail gmail com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On the subject of advocacy, I don't know if anyone has mentioned a
> recent report sponsored by CoSN (Consortium for School Networking
> http://cosn.org) called "Primer on Open Technologies in K-12
> Education."  It's short, about 5 pages, and covers open source
> software, open standards and interop (i.e., SIF).  It is quite well
> written.  The catch is that if you're not a member of CoSN it is $25
> to download it.  On the other hand, if we're talking about making
> suits feel impressed by something, giving them a report you had to pay
> for may be perversely effective.   On the third hand, there's nothing
> in there you haven't heard before, so don't get your panties in a
> bunch about their decision to charge for it.  It's their loss.
> 
> --Tom
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 28
> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:13:11 +0530
> From: "info" <info proex-india com>
> Subject: [K12OSN] No luck with ssh key storing for users
> To: k12osn redhat com
> Message-ID: <E1DZ2zM-0002Ut-00 smtp net4india com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hello, Everyone
> please let me know which public key i need to copy in which directory??
> I have generated the keys as per the documents and local apps are
> working perfectly.
> Only thing is i have to enter password everytime.
> 
> Which public key i need to copy in which file?
> please let me know the file names also.
> 
> thanks Sudev for help
> 
> 
> Regards
> K.dinesh
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