[K12OSN] My vision needs feedback.

Fri Sep 23 03:26:14 UTC 2005

Hi Steve,

It's good that you've become a proponent of Free/Open Source Software.
I think we all wish more would.  However, as a former high school
student not so long ago, I must ask why kids need laptops to learn
readin', ritin', and 'rithmetic.  Since you bring up precalculus, I
learned all of my mathematics, up to and including that needed for
undergraduate quantum mechanics, with pencil and paper.  I took precalc
and the calculus in high school, and I can attest that the only time
that you need a computer for math teaching is when you're taking
logarithms, and that computer can be a $10 solar-powered scientific
calculator.  To this day, I still know how to take derivatives and
integrals because I had to actually write it down back then, so I
learned it really well (thank you, Mr. Madden!).  All the function
graphing can be done either in class or in the computer lab.

If you're just set on having laptops for all incoming freshmen (a
mistake that we made with our faculty, BTW), then while you certainly
*can* use K12LTSP as a thick client, and folks--including myself--
certainly do, you don't *have* to.  You could just as easily use Ubuntu,
CentOS, straight FC4, or any other distro that supports PAM.  But I
wouldn't recommend it; today, I have to support teachers with wireless
laptops.  It is *not* fun, and they don't need them.  It's yet another
expensive thing to break or get ripped off, and I can assure you that
both will happen.

Now, on to your computer labs.  I would definitely go with K12LTSP
there.  Heck, I'd go with LTSP *everywhere* in a school; very, very few
people in a school actually *need* a fat client at work.  If you set up
a LDAP infrastructure, then everyone running GNU/Linux or any other
LDAP-supporting platform can authenticate at any terminal in the school
with single-sign-on.  What's more, you can gradually migrate the users
over from Windows to GNU/Linux gradually if you use David Trask's Samba-
LDAP document.  You can essentially replace any NT domain controller
infrastructure with a Samba-based one, and with Samba 3.x, you now get
both PDC and BDC functionality if you have a LDAP back-end.

Hope this helps some.

--TP

On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 22:56 -0400, Steve Hampton wrote:

> Hi List,
> 
> I want to ask for some feedback on a vision (dream at this stage) that
> I have.  I need two types of feedback. First if anyone has the type of
> setup that I envision and would be willing to let me visit their site
> to document, take photos and notes it would greatly help me in my
> struggle to get my vision implemented.  Secondly, if the people on
> this list that know WAY MORE than me about linux and computer
> technology, know of any reason that what I am envisioning would not
> work please point out the errors in my thinking.  So here goes with my
> vision.
> 
> This is what I envision for the high school where I teach computer
> engineering. It is a small high school only about 550 students in a
> rural area.  I found out that some students were not able to take a
> pre-calculus course that is offered through the school collaborating
> with an online educational service because the students did not have
> computers at home and that really burned me up.  After all I have seen
> within the open source community about increasing access to technology
> I figure now is the time for me to start fighting that battle locally.
> 
> I loved a slide I saw in a presentation I downloaded from somewhere by
> David Trask that said something about access for everyone being more
> important than a few people being able to use reader rabbit and I
> apologize David if I twisted your words but I believe that was the
> general idea.  Ok, on with my vision.  I would like for our school to
> do the following:
> 
> 1.  I would like for them to abandon the proprietary software
> addiction (Paying more does NOT equal Getting more)
> 
> 2.  I would like for them to purchase laptops without OSes for every
> freshman when they enter high school. They would take them to every
> class, home and  then allowed to take them with them whenever they
> graduate.  The students would have more incentive to take care of
> something they knew would become theirs.
> 
> 3.  Since the laptops would be purchased without OSes I would like for
> them to all get K12LTSP installed and for them to be setup as Thick
> clients to authenticate to K12servers using Samba/Ldap throughout the
> school on a wireless network.
> 
> 4.  I would like it if the students laptops worked in this fashion. 
> When they took them home and turned them on they could log in as a
> local user and access their home folder and even save documents there.
> Then when they came into the school and logged into the network their
> home folder would be synchronized with their home folder on the k12
> file server(s).  This might be possible with an rsync configuration of
> some sort I am not sure.  This is the kind of convenience I have with
> OSX and iSync but I am trying to build a vision for my school based on
> inexpensive open source solutions.
> 
> I have crunched the numbers for the hardware and I know it would cost
> less to equip the incoming freshman each year with a new laptop fully
> loaded with k12ltsp than what the system currently spends on computer
> equipment and proprietary licenses.  Not to mention that since the
> students would be able to take their laptops to class the math
> teachers could stop paying thousands of dollars for graphing
> calculators and use the graphing tools included in the edutainment
> package of k12.
> 
> I know what we are doing now is very expensive and only provides
> computer labs that the students realistically only have access to
> maybe an average of 2 hours per day.  And the labs are setup so that
> they only have certain types of software depending on which lab it is.
> For example, the computers in the drafting classroom that COST 2000
> dollars for a 10 station AutoCAD license are worthless for chemistry
> students they need access to the Math and Science lab.  The great
> thing about k12 is that it is all there together, Qcad, Kalzium, and
> you know I could go on and on.  The thing is we can't keep doing what
> we are doing and expect to get better results, on test scores (which
> administration dwells on) or student knowledge and comprehension which
> is what is really important.  Changes need to be made.  Access to
> technology for everyone, and the right types of technology that help
> develop high level conceptualization and abstract thinking are vital.
> 
> My main concerns before I try to work up a proposal and then really
> work to push it hard is making sure what I want to do is possible.  I
> have a feeling that network administration would be easier since I
> know from administering the network in my classroom, with linux once
> you get all the configurations setup and working right you pretty much
> just set back and leave it alone and everything just seems to keep
> working right.
> 
> PLUS, PLEASE if anyone has .sxi presentations (or even .ppt) that they
> would be willing to share that they have used to successfully
> influence others I would love to receive links to them if you have
> them posted online.  Or if you have great articles, papers, any type
> of documentation that you think would be great in promoting the linux
> cause please spam me with them. You can send them to me off the list
> at steve_hampton28702 at yahoo.com.  I really do appreciate any help and
> feedback I can get in this. I think that promoting open source in the
> area in which I live has kinda become a passion in my life. GO
> PENGUINS, hehe
> 
> Steve Hampton
> Technology Instructor
> Swain County High School
> North Carolina, USA
> --
> Open Source, The Right Thing To Do!
> 
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