[K12OSN] Frameworks for Web based Student Information Systems

Wed Jan 17 04:44:38 UTC 2007

On 1/16/07, Tom Hoffman <tom.hoffman at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/16/07, Robert Arkiletian <robark at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Not sure how many developers are on this list but here goes.
> >
> > What types of frameworks would be best suited for developing a full
> > featured large scale (district level) Student Information System?
> >
> > The ones which I know exist are
> > J2EE
> > JBoss
> > Zope (Python)
> > Django (Python)
> > Ruby on Rails
> > PHP
> >
> > I'm assuming the database backend would be PostgreSQL, MySQL or Oracle.
> >
> > The real question is if one (or more) district(s) was to hire a team
> > of developers to write a GPLed SIS, how long would this take and cost?
> > (Approx.)
> >
> > I realize this is probably not the best place to ask this question.
> > Where should this question be asked?
>
> This is as good a place as any to ask the question.  Having managed
> the development of a GPL-ed SIS for the past couple years, I've got
> some experience with the matter.
>
> A student information system for one school, or for one type of school
> isn't a very complicated operation.  I know of plenty of anecdotal
> cases of a team of two or three reasonably competent developers
> writing a system for their school in a year or less.  In the past,
> this usually meant FileMaker or FoxPro, but agile frameworks like
> Django or Rails provide equally rapid development.
>
> I'm not sure what the difference in cost to scale up to a whole
> district would be.  The Providence School Department still runs off a
> FoxPro database, as far as I know.  I think it is fair to say that the
> knee-jerk reaction by most folks is to jump up to a big Java solution,
> but it is probably not necessary.
>
> Anyhow, the big question becomes your ambitions beyond simply making
> an application for your district.  I've found that the numbers in the
> first chapter of the classic Mythical Man-Month are pretty accurate.
> That is, if just writing the application for your own use takes X
> amount of time.  Getting it to the point where it is sufficiently
> robust, documented, packaged, tested so that anyone can use it will
> take 3X.  If you want it to be easily modified and extensible in a
> systematic way by third parties, that'll take 3X.  If you want both,
> you're looking at 9X.
>
> This is, generally speaking, why there are so few open source SIS's,
> despite the fact that a number of people have written systems for
> their own schools using open source frameworks.  The one or two
> developers who wrote the application can't then devote the necessary
> time to turn it into an ongoing open source project.
>
> Regarding a choice of frameworks...
>
> I do think the first question is PHP or not PHP.  Among people
> actually working in schools, and thus who are more likely to
> understand the requirements of the application well, PHP seems to be
> far and away the most commonly known and used language.  Also, Moodle,
> Drupal, MediaWiki and other similar, popular apps are written in PHP.
> And it is supported by just about every web host, etc.
>
> On the other hand, it is probably the option most likely to cause you
> security issues, if not because of the inherent properties of the
> language, because lots of those PHP programmers know exactly enough to
> be dangerous, and the language itself makes no effort to keep them
> from hanging themselves.
>
> I'm generally a not-PHP person.
>
> Whether or not you'd use Java pretty much depends on if you have Java
> programmers handy and money to pay them.  Just using Web2School
> (written in Java) will become an option if Wicked Good software open
> sources it.  They've stated their intention to do so, but they may
> find it is a longer, more complicated process than it appears to be.
> They seem like nice guys, but I'll believe it when I see it.
>
> Rails, Django, etc., seem like good options.  The weird thing about
> designing an SIS based on one of these is how do you handle
> customization?  Not that they are difficult to customize; they're easy
> to customize.  In fact, it is so easy to customize them, it isn't
> clear exactly what a general purpose Rails or Django SIS is.
>
> For example, if I had a Rails SIS, and I needed to modify the
> demographic form for our students, would I do it the Rails way, and
> modify the tables and run generate scripts?  Or would I modify the
> form through some administrative screens in the web interface like a
> normal SIS?  If the answer is the latter, we've immediately ditched
> some of the basic assumptions that make Rails development so fast and
> efficient.
>
> As you may know, SchoolTool is written in Python using Zope 3, which
> on its technical merits is extremely well suited to the task.  The
> problem is that Zope 3 is not very well known and has a somewhat
> idiosyncratic design, so it is hard to find developers, particularly
> in the US.  Although... now that I think about it, Vancouver is
> actually a hotbed of Zope development, and I even know some Zope 3
> developers there.  So building on SchoolTool would actually be a
> possibility for you.
>
> What's your hypothetical timeframe?

Thanks for the excellent reply Tom. I don't really have a timeframe. I
just want to know what's possible and others experiences. Centre is
built with PHP, Web2School uses Java, SchoolTool uses Zope3 and Open
Admin uses Perl. Interesting to see which will thrive.

>
> --Tom
>
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-- 
Robert Arkiletian
Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada
Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/
C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/