[K12OSN] LTSP in libraries - HELP!
James P. Kinney III
jkinney at localnetsolutions.com
Fri Nov 23 22:09:53 UTC 2007
On Fri, 2007-11-23 at 14:29 -0500, Conrad Lawes wrote:
> I appreciate all the merits of Open Source. However, if there's no
> comparable open source option that will offer the same, if not better,
> end result then it's counter-productive to suggest an open source
> solution simply because it's not MS.
I think it is counter-productive to continue to use a dangerously
insecure platform that actively promotes destroying the freedom of users
to learn. Regardless of the perceived advantages of application ABC, the
conversion as quickly as possible to a platform that actively encourages
experimentation, growth and knowledge transferal more than makes up for
application XYZ being "different" or even "less advanced" than it's ABC
counterpart. The sooner the conversion happens, the sooner the real,
underlying benefits can be realized. Even if the proprietary platforms
and software were all available legally at no monetary expense, the
"freedom to tinker" aspect of open source would still more than justify
it's near exclusive use in academia.
>
> For instance, suggesting a solution that is going to require replacing
> the current library system back-end just to satisfy the client-side
> requirements, IMHO would be over-kill, if not costly.
When the cash out of pocket for the conversion from a closed,
proprietary system to an open, free system is on the same order as the
annual support cost of the closed system, it is financially prudent to
convert as quickly as possible.
>
>
> It seems to me that Jim is perfectly happy with the XP solution that
> is presently in place. He just doesn't want to upgrade to Vista. So
> again, I ask why not stick just with XP?
As long as XP is running on a machine with no network device, no USB,
floppy, or CD drive for user input, sure, keep XP. At that point, XP
becomes about as easy to maintain as a typical Linux machine. Of course
it doesn't do much but at least you've still got that blessed XP
license.
No XP means no need to track a license code. If the goons from
BSA/Redmond show up on the doorstep, the school gets to give them the
finger and a loud "bugger off". By removing all "must pay license fee"
software from the school systems, the school can save money, real money,
on lawyer fees and legal support. By demanding any new machine be
shipped with NO operating system, the school saves more precious cash by
not shelling out the Microsoft Tax. The school would normally be
installing from a bulk license anyway and paying a SECOND license fee to
the cash vacuum in Redmond. Now there is no reason to not install a
platform that all the kids can also take home with no fear of punishment
for wanting to learn the new platform.
>
>
> On Nov 23, 2007 2:00 PM, "Terrell Prudé Jr."
> <microman at cmosnetworks.com> wrote:
> Hmm...several reasons:
>
> 1.) A system that actually *works* without major care and
> feeding. In short, a much, *MUCH* cheaper maintenance bill.
> 2.) A system with less up-front cost, in most cases, zero.
> Sure, this is small compared to maintenance, but it's still
> there.
> 3.) A system that actually supports truly open standards.
> 4.) A system that is virus free.
> 5.) A system that *you*, the user/sysadmin, can modify as you
> need. Yes, a lot of people actually do this!
> 6.) A system that actually gets updates right away, unlike MS
> ("oh, that WMF report is a feature, not a bug!")
> 7.) Freedom from license audit threats. Just ask Paul Nelson
> and other schools/libraries about that.
> 8.) A guarantee of "no piracy." It's impossible to "pirate"
> something that's Free, as in Freedom.
> 9.) The ability to, without any limitations, share that same
> software with whomever asks ("oh, your computer crashed? No
> prob, here's a Knoppix/Ubuntu/Fedora LiveCD so you can keep
> doing that book report").
>
> Windows XP is a steaming pile of dung, and Vista is yet worse.
> And both are a legal trap, a big one. Thus, my two questions
> to you would be,
>
> 1.) Why would you want to go backwards to MS Windows, instead
> of forward to something actually good like GNU/Linux?
> 2.) Are you *asking* for a license compliance audit, like
> what happened to Portland Public Schools and many others? I
> trust you've read that Microsoft EULA....
>
> --TP
> _______________________________
> Do you GNU?
> Microsoft Free since 2003--the ultimate antivirus protection!
>
>
>
> Conrad Lawes wrote:
> >
> > Dump question: Is there any reason why you can't continue
> > using XP?
> > Many OEMs offer customers the choice of staying with XP.
> > Vista is not mandatory at least not yet.
> > It is apparent (from this thread) that any other solution is
> > going to require significant research time and investment.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 21, 2007 10:42 AM, Jim Anderson <gotthin at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I am in charge of the computers at my local
> > library. We have 18
> > public computers running Windows XP and Envisionware
> > software for
> > session control and printing. The library is
> > beginning an expansion
> > that will increase the number of public computers by
> > 50% plus add a
> > classroom with more computers. As I have a large
> > part in the
> > decision-making in this area I would like to find a
> > Free alternative
> > to having a slew of Vista computers installed. The
> > library has had
> > good results with XP because of the "DeepFreeze"
> > security software
> > that is installed. However an upgrade to Vista will
> > be very costly
> > and I am totally unconvinced that it would be a
> > smooth transition and
> > maintenance will be incessant.
> >
> > I have experience with K12LTSP since helping with a
> > computer lab this
> > past year. I would like to bring the stability,
> > reliability and lower
> > cost of ownership that I have experienced with LTSP
> > to the library.
> > Instead of buying 25+ new Vista computers the
> > library could buy
> > dedicated thin clients and new monitors. The
> > library will see an
> > ongoing cost saving in electricity costs, as well.
> > I had been looking
> > at a Windows-based terminal server solution, but I
> > can't get away from
> > the fear that one user could do something that would
> > require the
> > reboot of the whole system, or worse. In my mind
> > LTSP is the only way
> > to go.
> >
> > As well as using a lighweight locked-down desktop I
> > need to have some
> > way to control session lengths, create reservations
> > (preferably a
> > self-service kiosk) and store print jobs in a queue
> > for release by by
> > the user. The system would have to be able to
> > interface with a
> > payment system, such as Jamex, for payment of print
> > jobs, and it would
> > have to be able to read library card barcodes for
> > making reservations
> > and for print release.
> >
> > So my question is: "Does anyone know of any Linux
> > systems that would
> > work with LTSP and meet these requirements?"
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Jim Anderson
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > K12OSN mailing list
> > K12OSN at redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn
> > For more info see <http://www.k12os.org>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Conrad Lawes
> > PXE Guru
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > _______________________________________________ K12OSN
> > mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info
> > see <http://www.k12os.org>
>
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>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Conrad Lawes
> PXE Guru
> --
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--
James P. Kinney III
CEO & Director of Engineering
Local Net Solutions,LLC
770-493-8244
http://www.localnetsolutions.com
GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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