From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 01:55:40 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:55:40 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hello, 2009/1/31 Conrad Lawes : > At some point and time you will have to determine how much is your time and > frustration worth. A network-able laser printer can be bought for about > $150 or less nowadays. Why not just pick a printer that you know will > work? IMHO, usb-only printer as not well suited for more than a couple of > users especially when they attached to Windows machine. I may be forced into this situation sooner than later in fact. This HP Laserjet 1000 is actually HP's low end, personal home printer but thanks to hooking it up to a windows 98 machine (in the previous lab's incarnation) we probably printed close to 1000 pages a month of 5 years! It certainly was far beyond the expected performance of the printer in our 12-computer lab. Now it's starting to show it's age because someone broke (by pulling out a sheet that was jammed I think) one of the rollers that ejects the page and now it doesn't eject the last centimeter or so of each page, causing each sheet to push out the next onto the desk, etc. If I was to look into a new network printer the quick question is -- can you put a network printer on the same switch as the thin client network? If I need to follow this up with more questions I'll probably start a new thread. Thanks, Joseph From sbarar at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 03:00:48 2009 From: sbarar at gmail.com (Sudev Barar) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 08:30:48 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/1 Joseph Bishay : [SNIP] > next onto the desk, etc. If I was to look into a new network printer > the quick question is -- can you put a network printer on the same > switch as the thin client network? If I need to follow this up with > more questions I'll probably start a new thread. Yes. Simply plug it in and use cups to declare it as a jet direct printer. Although I have no figures but I believe that a much larger percentage network printers work under linux. -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, spread the message. From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Feb 1 15:20:11 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:20:11 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4985BDAB.8060401@cmosnetworks.com> Sudev Barar wrote: > 2009/2/1 Joseph Bishay : > [SNIP] > >> next onto the desk, etc. If I was to look into a new network printer >> the quick question is -- can you put a network printer on the same >> switch as the thin client network? If I need to follow this up with >> more questions I'll probably start a new thread. >> > > Yes. Simply plug it in and use cups to declare it as a jet direct > printer. Although I have no figures but I believe that a much larger > percentage network printers work under linux. > This is the definitive resource. http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting Originally "LinuxPrinting", it is now "OpenPrinting" and hosted by the Linux Foundation. Great site. If you're thinking of an HP printer, then any of them are good save for the following models, which require that binary blob (the LaserJet 1000 is one of them). I've gotta give HP credit--they're much more open than in years past! http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/plugin.html --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 17:43:59 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:43:59 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: <4985BDAB.8060401@cmosnetworks.com> References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> <4985BDAB.8060401@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: Can you believe this? It stopped working! The only change I made was to move the computer from the desk to the floor! I even moved it back but it no longer works. Grrr...I started from scratch again. Plugged the printer into the server -- it is recognized automatically and prints no problem. Checked to make sure the thin client is outputting the firmware to the printer -- it is. Made sure the thin client is recognizing the usb printer -- the shell screen on the client shows it is. Power-cycled the thin client and the printer several times. Nothing. SO aggravating to come down off a high of it working to one it is not. I will look into these other printers and will start a thread asking about what is a good inexpensive printer. Joseph From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 17:49:18 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:49:18 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? Message-ID: Hello, I hope everyone is well. As a result of extensive help in another thread, I may be forced to get a new printer for our small network. We have about 15 or so computers on our LTSP server and I'm looking for a printer that: 1) is black and white laser 2) has a paper capacity of at least 250 sheets 3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP 4) Can handle about a thousand pages a month. 5) Not very expensive since everything we buy for the Church is on a budget Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. Thank you. Joseph From reb at taco.com Sun Feb 1 19:09:17 2009 From: reb at taco.com (Phydeaux) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 14:09:17 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090201190919.8863360E183@althea.taco.com> At 12:49 PM 02/01/09, you wrote: >3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a >networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP >... >Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am >in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. I would not pay money for _anything_ that was not networked. It is just not worth the hassle. I have had very good luck with a variety of Brother models. The HL-5250DN looks quite good for your needs. reb From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Feb 1 19:10:12 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 14:10:12 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4985F394.4060605@cmosnetworks.com> Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello, > > I hope everyone is well. > > As a result of extensive help in another thread, I may be forced to > get a new printer for our small network. We have about 15 or so > computers on our LTSP server and I'm looking for a printer that: > > 1) is black and white laser > 2) has a paper capacity of at least 250 sheets > 3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a > networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP > 4) Can handle about a thousand pages a month. > 5) Not very expensive since everything we buy for the Church is on a budget > > Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am > in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. > > Thank you. > Joseph > Yes, you have a plethora of choices. These days I always recommend HP printers to anyone using GNU/Linux. That's because they generally work so damned well...IF you ensure to check the HPLIP page before you purchase! This is very important! All of these are guaranteed to work with K12LTSP 5EL (CentOS 5). Here's the HPLIP supported devices page. Note that you might have to uninstall the stock HPLIP and download/install the latest HPLIP, but that's actually quite an easy process. I've done it on my Dad's and my own CentOS 5 machines. http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/supported_devices/laserjet.html Now, which printer to choose? I'd recommend the LaserJet P2035N for your purposes. It meets your above specifications and is $299 MSRP, so you can probably find it on sale. Another good one would be the P2055DN, which has a little more oomph, can handle PostScript, and has the duplex tray. That one's $399 MSRP. Note that these are USA prices, and yes, both are networked. If neither of these are to your liking, then I'd make sure that anything you choose speaks PCL5 (or later) and/or PostScript as a print language. With either one of these print languages, you're golden. Note that PostScript printers do cost a bit more. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Feb 1 19:18:32 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 14:18:32 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20090201190919.8863360E183@althea.taco.com> References: <20090201190919.8863360E183@althea.taco.com> Message-ID: <4985F588.4030703@cmosnetworks.com> Phydeaux wrote: > At 12:49 PM 02/01/09, you wrote: > >> 3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a >> networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP >> ... >> Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am >> in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. >> > > I would not pay money for _anything_ that was not networked. It is just > not worth the hassle. I have had very good luck with a variety of Brother > models. The HL-5250DN looks quite good for your needs. > Be careful with Brother. They have a very nasty habit of not supporting Free Software platforms. There have been several cases of people running GNU/Linux who've tried dealing with Brother, and the answer was always, "oh, we don't support Linux." You have been warned. --TP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From accessys at smart.net Sun Feb 1 19:25:14 2009 From: accessys at smart.net (Accessys@smart.net) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:25:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4985F588.4030703@cmosnetworks.com> References: <20090201190919.8863360E183@althea.taco.com> <4985F588.4030703@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2009, [ISO-8859-1] "Terrell Prud? Jr." wrote: > Be careful with Brother. They have a very nasty habit of not supporting > Free Software platforms. There have been several cases of people > running GNU/Linux who've tried dealing with Brother, and the answer was > always, "oh, we don't support Linux." You have been warned. > --TP not just Brother, just happened last week, helped someone set up thier ubuntu machine, they have Verizon DSL. called verizon to turn it on and all they ever got was "we don't support linux" so lied and told em wanteed a manual overide setup for a windows machine, the nice person walked em all the way thru it and got it set up nicely and turned on. then they said, "enjoy your experience on Verizon with your ubuntu machine" I guess as long as you don't tell em it is linux, they will help you. Bob - end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From moon at smbis.com Sun Feb 1 19:44:10 2009 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 14:44:10 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1233517450.6216.26.camel@mws.localdomain> For low budget I recommend the HP LaserJet 2100 series (network card installed of course). I have bought and donated these for the church/school that I support. I know these are a little old models, but these printers are very reliable, long lasting, and inexpensive. Several models support postscript and all 100% supported by Linux. You can also buy these on eBay ~$50-100 as well as cartridges (5000-6000 page count) for ~$25 a piece. These printers are low maintenance as well. On Sun, 2009-02-01 at 12:49 -0500, Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello, > > I hope everyone is well. > > As a result of extensive help in another thread, I may be forced to > get a new printer for our small network. We have about 15 or so > computers on our LTSP server and I'm looking for a printer that: > > 1) is black and white laser > 2) has a paper capacity of at least 250 sheets > 3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a > networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP > 4) Can handle about a thousand pages a month. > 5) Not very expensive since everything we buy for the Church is on a budget > > Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am > in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. > > Thank you. > Joseph > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Feb 1 19:48:52 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?UTF-8?B?IlRlcnJlbGwgUHJ1ZMOpIEpyLiI=?=) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 14:48:52 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <1233517450.6216.26.camel@mws.localdomain> References: <1233517450.6216.26.camel@mws.localdomain> Message-ID: <4985FCA4.7070205@cmosnetworks.com> If we're talking older printers, then yep, 2100's are very good. If you can't get one of those where you are, then a LaserJet 4000N will also serve you very well. That's what we use at the office. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Moon wrote: > For low budget I recommend the HP LaserJet 2100 series (network card > installed of course). I have bought and donated these for the > church/school that I support. I know these are a little old models, > but these printers are very reliable, long lasting, and inexpensive. > Several models support postscript and all 100% supported by Linux. > You can also buy these on eBay ~$50-100 as well as cartridges > (5000-6000 page count) for ~$25 a piece. These printers are low > maintenance as well. > > On Sun, 2009-02-01 at 12:49 -0500, Joseph Bishay wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I hope everyone is well. >> >> As a result of extensive help in another thread, I may be forced to >> get a new printer for our small network. We have about 15 or so >> computers on our LTSP server and I'm looking for a printer that: >> >> 1) is black and white laser >> 2) has a paper capacity of at least 250 sheets >> 3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a >> networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP >> 4) Can handle about a thousand pages a month. >> 5) Not very expensive since everything we buy for the Church is on a budget >> >> Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am >> in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. >> >> Thank you. >> Joseph >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rowens at ptd.net Sun Feb 1 19:57:53 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:57:53 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4985FCA4.7070205@cmosnetworks.com> References: <1233517450.6216.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <4985FCA4.7070205@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <20090201195753.GE28068@junker.owens.net> I usually go to newegg.com and look at the reviews. I do a search for either "linux" or "ubuntu" since those terms show up in the reviews fairly often. Personally I've had good luck with both HP and Samsung. On my K12LTSP 5.0EL system I have used an HP 2100, HP 2300, and whatever the cheapest current model HP and Samsung networked printers are (can't remember the model, but I bought them about 6 months ago). -Rob On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 02:48:52PM -0500, "Terrell Prud? Jr." wrote: > If we're talking older printers, then yep, 2100's are very good. If you > can't get one of those where you are, then a LaserJet 4000N will also > serve you very well. That's what we use at the office. > > --TP > _______________________________ > Do you GNU ? > Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate > antivirus protection! > > > Moon wrote: > >For low budget I recommend the HP LaserJet 2100 series (network card > >installed of course). I have bought and donated these for the > >church/school that I support. I know these are a little old models, > >but these printers are very reliable, long lasting, and inexpensive. > >Several models support postscript and all 100% supported by Linux. > >You can also buy these on eBay ~$50-100 as well as cartridges > >(5000-6000 page count) for ~$25 a piece. These printers are low > >maintenance as well. > > > >On Sun, 2009-02-01 at 12:49 -0500, Joseph Bishay wrote: > >>Hello, > >> > >>I hope everyone is well. > >> > >>As a result of extensive help in another thread, I may be forced to > >>get a new printer for our small network. We have about 15 or so > >>computers on our LTSP server and I'm looking for a printer that: > >> > >>1) is black and white laser > >>2) has a paper capacity of at least 250 sheets > >>3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a > >>networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP > >>4) Can handle about a thousand pages a month. > >>5) Not very expensive since everything we buy for the Church is on a > >>budget > >> > >>Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am > >>in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. > >> > >>Thank you. > >>Joseph > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>K12OSN mailing list > >>K12OSN at redhat.com > >>https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > >>For more info see > >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >K12OSN mailing list > >K12OSN at redhat.com > >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > >For more info see > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From fastxr at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 20:21:22 2009 From: fastxr at gmail.com (Vince Callaway) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:21:22 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1233519683.7651.6.camel@dell2> I've actually been pretty happy with brother printers. My business uses the heck out of them. We bought a bunch of the cheap inkjet all-in-ones for scanning documents. I probably scan a couple of hundred pages a week. Hard to find a scanner with document feeder that works properly with linux for less than $100. If you use them with Ubuntu you have to install tcsh for the install. Other than that it is pretty straight forward. Brother has all the drivers for download. The drum units are a little pricey. Check ebay for drum kits where you just replace the drum in the unit yourself. Saves big bucks. From accessys at smart.net Sun Feb 1 20:27:37 2009 From: accessys at smart.net (Accessys@smart.net) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:27:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4985FCA4.7070205@cmosnetworks.com> References: <1233517450.6216.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <4985FCA4.7070205@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: we've been beating the heck out of a HP laserjet 5 for many years, it just keeps going and going and going. but we have been given a little money for a color laserjet, now it will have low usage since I will restrict it's use, but any one have any recomendations. I do hope to stick with HP since we have had such good results with em. I know a laser is no where near as good as an inkjet for photos but decent looking photos would be nice plus. any suggestions Bob On Sun, 1 Feb 2009, [UTF-8] "Terrell Prud?? Jr." wrote: > If we're talking older printers, then yep, 2100's are very good. If you > can't get one of those where you are, then a LaserJet 4000N will also > serve you very well. That's what we use at the office. > > --TP > _______________________________ > Do you GNU ? > Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate > antivirus protection! > > > Moon wrote: > > For low budget I recommend the HP LaserJet 2100 series (network card > > installed of course). I have bought and donated these for the > > church/school that I support. I know these are a little old models, > > but these printers are very reliable, long lasting, and inexpensive. > > Several models support postscript and all 100% supported by Linux. > > You can also buy these on eBay ~$50-100 as well as cartridges > > (5000-6000 page count) for ~$25 a piece. These printers are low > > maintenance as well. > > > > On Sun, 2009-02-01 at 12:49 -0500, Joseph Bishay wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> I hope everyone is well. > >> > >> As a result of extensive help in another thread, I may be forced to > >> get a new printer for our small network. We have about 15 or so > >> computers on our LTSP server and I'm looking for a printer that: > >> > >> 1) is black and white laser > >> 2) has a paper capacity of at least 250 sheets > >> 3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a > >> networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP > >> 4) Can handle about a thousand pages a month. > >> 5) Not very expensive since everything we buy for the Church is on a budget > >> > >> Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am > >> in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. > >> > >> Thank you. > >> Joseph > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> K12OSN mailing list > >> K12OSN at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > >> For more info see > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > - end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Feb 1 23:35:38 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 18:35:38 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <1233517450.6216.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <4985FCA4.7070205@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <498631CA.7060206@cmosnetworks.com> Last year we started using HP Color LaserJet 4700's, and they do really well. Every recent distro I've tried (including CentOS 5) supports them. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Accessys at smart.net wrote: > we've been beating the heck out of a HP laserjet 5 for many years, it > just keeps going and going and going. > > but we have been given a little money for a color laserjet, now it > will have low usage since I will restrict it's use, but any one have > any recomendations. > > I do hope to stick with HP since we have had such good results with > em. I know a laser is no where near as good as an inkjet for photos > but decent looking photos would be nice plus. > > any suggestions > > Bob > > > > > On Sun, 1 Feb 2009, [UTF-8] "Terrell Prud? Jr." wrote: > > >> If we're talking older printers, then yep, 2100's are very good. If you >> can't get one of those where you are, then a LaserJet 4000N will also >> serve you very well. That's what we use at the office. >> >> --TP >> _______________________________ >> Do you GNU ? >> Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate >> antivirus protection! >> >> >> Moon wrote: >> >>> For low budget I recommend the HP LaserJet 2100 series (network card >>> installed of course). I have bought and donated these for the >>> church/school that I support. I know these are a little old models, >>> but these printers are very reliable, long lasting, and inexpensive. >>> Several models support postscript and all 100% supported by Linux. >>> You can also buy these on eBay ~$50-100 as well as cartridges >>> (5000-6000 page count) for ~$25 a piece. These printers are low >>> maintenance as well. >>> >>> On Sun, 2009-02-01 at 12:49 -0500, Joseph Bishay wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I hope everyone is well. >>>> >>>> As a result of extensive help in another thread, I may be forced to >>>> get a new printer for our small network. We have about 15 or so >>>> computers on our LTSP server and I'm looking for a printer that: >>>> >>>> 1) is black and white laser >>>> 2) has a paper capacity of at least 250 sheets >>>> 3) can be plugged into a thin client and works FOR SURE or is a >>>> networked printer and works FOR SURE with LTSP >>>> 4) Can handle about a thousand pages a month. >>>> 5) Not very expensive since everything we buy for the Church is on a budget >>>> >>>> Brand-wise I am pretty agnostic, so what have you found works? I am >>>> in Toronto, Canada if that makes a difference. >>>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> K12OSN mailing list >>>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>>> For more info see >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> > > - > end > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob > .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net > .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers > .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right > *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# > THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be > privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brcisna at eazylivin.net Mon Feb 2 01:30:42 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 19:30:42 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? Message-ID: <1233538242.16801.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Joseph, Have a look at newegg.com. They have many make/model printers that are "open box" items. They have full warranty. Some are free shipping. Not sure if that would include Canada? I doubt it. At this point don't even think about anything but a network/ethernet printer regardless of make/model. The manageability of the networked/ethernet printer is so much easier for you "the network guy", in the trenches having to keep the printer functional versus a usb attached printer. Here is an example of a nice Xerox Phaser 6130N Color Network printer for $225 open box. This is probably overkill for the specs you gave. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828118493R We buy several items from Newegg in a years time and can say nothing but good about Newegg. Take Care, Barry Cisna From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 11:33:39 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 06:33:39 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Printer recommendations? In-Reply-To: <1233538242.16801.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1233538242.16801.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: We've used Brother printers exclusively for a few years now. The 5250DN works fine. We have about 80 of them at the present time. We actually don't use the network feature on most of them since they are connected to the thin clients via the parallel port. Only issue is that to it appears to manage them if you do use the network port you'll need a Windows-based system. HP does have an edge there. But either the HP or Brother should work well. Sincerely, David Hopkins From simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us Mon Feb 2 19:52:35 2009 From: simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us (Doug Simpson) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:52:35 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> These are not thin clients. . . It is a lab of computers. An E.A.S.T. lab to be specific, so they pretty much have full reign over them. I put the NAT in there so that when they get virus innfected, I can shell into the server that runs NAT and stop NAT and they are isolated. . . jsut that fast. Now, I need to be able to let them talk to a virus server out on the rest of the network for updates and etc. . . Thanks for the reply! Doug Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" >>> Almquist Burke 1/29/2009 5:55 PM >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jan 28, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Doug Simpson wrote: > I need some assistance. We have a computer lab that has 192.168.x.x > ips running from a linux box with two NICs in it. The lab is > conencted to one NIC. the other NIC is connected to the rest of the > network on a 10.40.x.x address. > > How do I configure NAT to allow a connection to a specific computer > on the 10.40.x.x network using NAT? Are the computers in the lab thin clients? If they are your shouldn't even need NAT. If they aren't, the NAT service should allow connections to be established from the lab to computers outside the lab. If you want computers outside the lab to initiate a connection, you need to manually forward addresses. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkmCQgEACgkQxWV7OPa/g5Gl6wCeKnBJjEHigb9T2k4/CQ7uFpZC cesAnjbcqu2gZ+A9Zxuba8FqEU8XnRXI =fbsS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us Mon Feb 2 19:55:38 2009 From: simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us (Doug Simpson) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:55:38 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] remote X problem. . . Message-ID: <4986FB5A.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Hello! Last week, I was able to login to a remote server using: ssh -X username at server and once logged in, I could run X applications and display them locally. An example is the graphical system-config-network. Today, when I do the same thing I get the following error: _X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6010: Name or service not known ERROR: Unable to initialize graphical environment. Most likely cause of failure is that the tool was not run using a graphical environment. Please either start your graphical user interface or set your DISPLAY variable. What could cause this and how can I fix it? This computer is Debian and the remote one is FC3(likely), but as I said this worked last week and I haven't change d anything that I know of. Thanks in advance! Doug Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" From lesmikesell at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 20:28:00 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 14:28:00 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <49875750.60303@gmail.com> Doug Simpson wrote: > These are not thin clients. . . > It is a lab of computers. An E.A.S.T. lab to be specific, so they pretty much have full reign over them. I put the NAT in there so that when they get virus innfected, I can shell into the server that runs NAT and stop NAT and they are isolated. . . jsut that fast. > > Now, I need to be able to let them talk to a virus server out on the rest of the network for updates and etc. . . > > Thanks for the reply! > If you are running the old k12ltsp you should have an init script in /etc/init.d/nat so that service nat start will enable nat, service nat stop will stop it. If you don't have this file, it basically does: modprobe iptable_nat iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o $PUBLIC_ETHERNET -j MASQUERADE echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward $PUBLIC_ETHERNET is set somewhere as the 'outside' interface and normally would be eth1. If you want to restrict it to a specific outside address, you could add a -d nn.nn.nn.nn to the iptables line. Or, you could configure the clients to use a squid proxy instead of giving them any direct access. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From rowens at ptd.net Tue Feb 3 00:21:22 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:21:22 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] remote X problem. . . In-Reply-To: <4986FB5A.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <4986FB5A.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <20090203002122.GB5242@junker.owens.net> I'm assuming you are using sudo in your command. Try using gksudo instead. Some distros are more picky about that than others. -Rob On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 01:55:38PM -0600, Doug Simpson wrote: > Hello! > > Last week, I was able to login to a remote server using: > ssh -X username at server > and once logged in, I could run X applications and display them locally. > An example is the graphical system-config-network. > > Today, when I do the same thing I get the following error: > > _X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6010: Name or service not known > ERROR: Unable to initialize graphical environment. Most likely cause of failure is that the tool was not run using a graphical environment. Please either start your graphical user interface or set your DISPLAY variable. > > What could cause this and how can I fix it? > > This computer is Debian and the remote one is FC3(likely), but as I said this worked last week and I haven't change d anything that I know of. > > Thanks in advance! > > Doug > > Doug Simpson > Technology Specialist > De Queen Public Schools > De Queen, AR > simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us > > > Doug Simpson > Technology Specialist > De Queen Public Schools > De Queen, AR > simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us > "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Feb 3 02:08:26 2009 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:08:26 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sound volume fixed Message-ID: <4987A71A.9030507@redhat.com> ltsp-5.1.56 is now being pushed to updates. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=483153 This includes a fix that allows the VOLUME options in lts.conf to work again. It was working a few versions ago, but then we added alsa-plugins-pulseaudio to the chroot to allow localapps to use pulseaudio. This had the unexpected side-effect of breaking sound volume setting. This is now fixed. You need to either rebuild your /opt/ltsp/i386 chroot or yum update in your chroot to pick up this update of ltsp-client. https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/LiveServer In other news, K12Linux F10 Live Server Stable 3 is out. This release has several bug fixes over Stable 2. I believe this release to be VERY STABLE. I am now writing up a big announcement for fedora-announce-list. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From sbarar at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 07:54:03 2009 From: sbarar at gmail.com (Sudev Barar) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:24:03 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> <4985BDAB.8060401@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <774593a20902022354p5486f5aat3c5997cf64d6894b@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/1 Joseph Bishay : > Can you believe this? It stopped working! > Is the terminal getting same IP that has been defined under CUPS? I suspect you are getting different IP now and that is why you need to fix IP for all thin clients that are connected to printer/scanner etc. -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, spread the message. From simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us Tue Feb 3 12:56:53 2009 From: simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us (Doug Simpson) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 06:56:53 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] remote X problem. . . In-Reply-To: <20090203002122.GB5242@junker.owens.net> References: <4986FB5A.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <20090203002122.GB5242@junker.owens.net> Message-ID: <4987EAB3.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Wouldn't logging in as root actually be higher-level than just sudo the command? I was logged into the remote as root. . . Thanks. . . will try it anyway. . . DS Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" >>> Rob Owens 2/2/2009 6:21 PM >>> I'm assuming you are using sudo in your command. Try using gksudo instead. Some distros are more picky about that than others. -Rob On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 01:55:38PM -0600, Doug Simpson wrote: > Hello! > > Last week, I was able to login to a remote server using: > ssh -X username at server > and once logged in, I could run X applications and display them locally. > An example is the graphical system-config-network. > > Today, when I do the same thing I get the following error: > > _X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6010: Name or service not known > ERROR: Unable to initialize graphical environment. Most likely cause of failure is that the tool was not run using a graphical environment. Please either start your graphical user interface or set your DISPLAY variable. > > What could cause this and how can I fix it? > > This computer is Debian and the remote one is FC3(likely), but as I said this worked last week and I haven't change d anything that I know of. > > Thanks in advance! > > Doug > > Doug Simpson > Technology Specialist > De Queen Public Schools > De Queen, AR > simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us > > > Doug Simpson > Technology Specialist > De Queen Public Schools > De Queen, AR > simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us > "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us Tue Feb 3 13:01:28 2009 From: simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us (Doug Simpson) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:01:28 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <49875750.60303@gmail.com> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Thanks for your reply. . . I know how to turn nat on and off. . . my question is how to let them access a computer outside the NAT. Will read over what you sent again and see if I can make heads or tails out of it. . . Squid didn't do it. . . unless I didn't do it right. . . Doesn't squid only to web proxying? Thanks again for your reply. Doug Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" >>> Les Mikesell 2/2/2009 2:28 PM >>> Doug Simpson wrote: > These are not thin clients. . . > It is a lab of computers. An E.A.S.T. lab to be specific, so they pretty much have full reign over them. I put the NAT in there so that when they get virus innfected, I can shell into the server that runs NAT and stop NAT and they are isolated. . . jsut that fast. > > Now, I need to be able to let them talk to a virus server out on the rest of the network for updates and etc. . . > > Thanks for the reply! > If you are running the old k12ltsp you should have an init script in /etc/init.d/nat so that service nat start will enable nat, service nat stop will stop it. If you don't have this file, it basically does: modprobe iptable_nat iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o $PUBLIC_ETHERNET -j MASQUERADE echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward $PUBLIC_ETHERNET is set somewhere as the 'outside' interface and normally would be eth1. If you want to restrict it to a specific outside address, you could add a -d nn.nn.nn.nn to the iptables line. Or, you could configure the clients to use a squid proxy instead of giving them any direct access. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From k12ltsp at rwcinc.net Tue Feb 3 13:19:21 2009 From: k12ltsp at rwcinc.net (Patrick Fleming) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 06:19:21 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <49884459.5070106@rwcinc.net> Doug Simpson wrote: > Thanks for your reply. . . > > I know how to turn nat on and off. . . my question is how to let them > access a computer outside the NAT. > > Will read over what you sent again and see if I can make heads or > tails out of it. . . > > Squid didn't do it. . . unless I didn't do it right. . . > > Doesn't squid only to web proxying? > > Thanks again for your reply. > > Doug Are you sure that you need NAT for this? If this is a different private space network then you probably need to set up a static route on whichever machine is running your gateway - which is probably also the NAT machine. What is the output of: route -n > > Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, > AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" > > >>>> Les Mikesell 2/2/2009 2:28 PM >>> > Doug Simpson wrote: >> These are not thin clients. . . It is a lab of computers. An >> E.A.S.T. lab to be specific, so they pretty much have full reign >> over them. I put the NAT in there so that when they get virus >> innfected, I can shell into the server that runs NAT and stop NAT >> and they are isolated. . . jsut that fast. >> >> Now, I need to be able to let them talk to a virus server out on >> the rest of the network for updates and etc. . . >> >> Thanks for the reply! From lesmikesell at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 13:27:44 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:27:44 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <49884650.4030501@gmail.com> Doug Simpson wrote: > Thanks for your reply. . . > > I know how to turn nat on and off. . . my question is how to let them access a computer outside the NAT. What do you mean by 'outside the NAT'? NAT should let machines on the inside subnet access anything the server itself can. > Will read over what you sent again and see if I can make heads or tails out of it. . . I thought you wanted to limit then NAT to one destination. Maybe you have some other problem. > Squid didn't do it. . . unless I didn't do it right. . . > > Doesn't squid only to web proxying? Squid handles http and ftp protcols - which is what most virus scanners would use to download updates. Can the server itself access the address you want to reach? -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From reb at taco.com Tue Feb 3 13:30:54 2009 From: reb at taco.com (Phydeaux) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:30:54 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Sound volume fixed In-Reply-To: <4987A71A.9030507@redhat.com> References: <4987A71A.9030507@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090203133057.482F160E213@althea.taco.com> At 09:08 PM 02/02/09, Warren Togami wrote: >ltsp-5.1.56 is now being pushed to updates. > >https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=483153 >This includes a fix that allows the VOLUME options in lts.conf to work again. It was working a few versions ago, but then we added alsa-plugins-pulseaudio to the chroot to allow localapps to use pulseaudio. This had the unexpected side-effect of breaking sound volume setting. This is now fixed. That appears to have done the trick in our case. We now have sound! Thanks!!! reb From simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us Tue Feb 3 13:38:33 2009 From: simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us (Doug Simpson) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:38:33 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <49884650.4030501@gmail.com> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49884650.4030501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Thanks again for your reply. . .read on. . . Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" >>> Les Mikesell 2/3/2009 7:27 AM >>> Doug Simpson wrote: > Thanks for your reply. . . > > I know how to turn nat on and off. . . my question is how to let them access a computer outside the NAT. What do you mean by 'outside the NAT'? NAT should let machines on the inside subnet access anything the server itself can. computers in the lab need to access a single computer outside the lab (outside the nat) > Will read over what you sent again and see if I can make heads or tails out of it. . . I thought you wanted to limit then NAT to one destination. Maybe you have some other problem. This is what I want. > Squid didn't do it. . . unless I didn't do it right. . . > > Doesn't squid only to web proxying? Squid handles http and ftp protcols - which is what most virus scanners would use to download updates. Can the server itself access the address you want to reach? The virus updater runs on a computer on the 10.40.x.x network, and I think either http or windows UNC paths will work, but I couldn't get the http to go using squid. Yes the server itself can reach the destination. It is on the 10.40.x.x network. The computers in the lab are on a 192.168.100.x network. On a side note, when I did get into it (now I can't and that is a different discussion) I was told to add a route and after I did that, it brought the rest of the Internet traffic to a screeching halt whenever NAT was running. As a result, I had to completely take the NAT server out of the equation until I can get that fixed, but I can't get back into the system-config-network with a GUI so I have the route add options. (do you know of a way to do that from a text console?) I may just rebuild that server from scratch. . . it has been running fine until a few days ago when I started mucking with it to get those computers to see out.. . But that is another day's project. . . I would like to get it working anyway, though. . . Doug -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From lesmikesell at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 13:55:07 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:55:07 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <49884459.5070106@rwcinc.net> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49884459.5070106@rwcinc.net> Message-ID: <49884CBB.1000304@gmail.com> Patrick Fleming wrote: > >> Squid didn't do it. . . unless I didn't do it right. . . >> >> Doesn't squid only to web proxying? >> >> Thanks again for your reply. >> >> Doug > > > Are you sure that you need NAT for this? If this is a different private > space network then you probably need to set up a static route on > whichever machine is running your gateway - which is probably also the > NAT machine. What is the output of: route -n That can work, but the 'inside' ltsp subnets need to be unique, and the rest of the network needs to know the routes back through the outside interfaces. With NAT the rest of the network only needs to know the outside interface itself, which is usually already the case. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From k12ltsp at rwcinc.net Tue Feb 3 14:24:35 2009 From: k12ltsp at rwcinc.net (Patrick Fleming) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:24:35 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49884650.4030501@gmail.com> <4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <498853A3.2070501@rwcinc.net> Doug Simpson wrote: > > Yes the server itself can reach the destination. It is on the > 10.40.x.x network. The computers in the lab are on a 192.168.100.x > network. Can you run a traceroute to the IP in question? I think we need a little more on the layout of your network. eg. LTSP server 10.40.x.1, how many interfaces? > > On a side note, when I did get into it (now I can't and that is a > different discussion) I was told to add a route and after I did that, > it brought the rest of the Internet traffic to a screeching halt > whenever NAT was running. As a result, I had to completely take the > NAT server out of the equation until I can get that fixed, but I > can't get back into the system-config-network with a GUI so I have > the route add options. (do you know of a way to do that from a text > console?) route -n will show the routes numerically route add -net 192.168.100.0 gw (IP address of a machine/router reachable by the 10.40.x server) will add the 192.168.100.0 network and should only route hosts based upon that network - note that you can also use the netmask option to limit which hosts appear in the range. route will also take the host as a parameter, eg. route add -host 192.168.100.45 (the machine hosting the files that you want) gw 10.40.x > > I may just rebuild that server from scratch. . . it has been running > fine until a few days ago when I started mucking with it to get those > computers to see out.. . > > But that is another day's project. . . I would like to get it > working anyway, though. . . > > Doug From lesmikesell at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 14:42:06 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:42:06 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49884650.4030501@gmail.com> <4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <498857BE.7020509@gmail.com> Doug Simpson wrote: > >>> I know how to turn nat on and off. . . my question is how to let them access a computer outside the NAT. > >> What do you mean by 'outside the NAT'? NAT should let machines on the >> inside subnet access anything the server itself can. > > computers in the lab need to access a single computer outside the lab (outside the nat) NAT (in this case) refers to rewriting the packet source address to appear to be from the outside interface of the server. You should able to reach anything the server itself can reach, and get reply packets from anything that can reach the server. >>> Will read over what you sent again and see if I can make heads or tails out of it. . . > >> I thought you wanted to limit then NAT to one destination. Maybe you >> have some other problem. > > This is what I want. Then turning on NAT should allow this connection, and you can restrict it to this connection only by adding a -d ip_address to the iptables entry in the nat script. > >>> Squid didn't do it. . . unless I didn't do it right. . . >>> >>> Doesn't squid only to web proxying? > >> Squid handles http and ftp protcols - which is what most virus scanners >> would use to download updates. Can the server itself access the >> address you want to reach? > > The virus updater runs on a computer on the 10.40.x.x network, and I think either http or windows UNC paths will work, but I couldn't get the http to go using squid. > > Yes the server itself can reach the destination. It is on the 10.40.x.x network. The computers in the lab are on a 192.168.100.x network. Squid has a large configuration file that has to be set up properly to permit connection. You can see if it is blocking access by looking in the logfile under /var/log/squid. Normally you would have to explicitly set the proxy up on the clients, but it is also possible to intercept port 80 transparently and let squid handle it. > On a side note, when I did get into it (now I can't and that is a different discussion) I was told to add a route and after I did that, it brought the rest of the Internet traffic to a screeching halt whenever NAT was running. As a result, I had to completely take the NAT server out of the equation until I can get that fixed, but I can't get back into the system-config-network with a GUI so I have the route add options. (do you know of a way to do that from a text console?) > > I may just rebuild that server from scratch. . . it has been running fine until a few days ago when I started mucking with it to get those computers to see out.. . > > But that is another day's project. . . I would like to get it working anyway, though. . . It should have already worked, with the only problem being that you can access the rest of the world as well - if that is a problem in this situation. -- Les Mikesell From simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us Tue Feb 3 15:02:39 2009 From: simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us (Doug Simpson) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:02:39 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <498853A3.2070501@rwcinc.net> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49884650.4030501@gmail.com> <4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <498853A3.2070501@rwcinc.net> Message-ID: <4988082E.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> ltsp server: 2 nics. eth0: 192.168.0.254 eth1: 10.40.12.22 I will have to go get it re-connected to get the traceroute done. . .I had to completely pull it out of the network since it was killing all Internet traffic for all computers on both networks. I may just re-install that one to a different version (that one is real old anyway). We'll see what happens after that. . . More later. . . I'll quit wasting your time with this for now. . .may be abck with it. . . Thanks for all the replies and assistance! Doug Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" >>> Patrick Fleming 2/3/2009 8:24 AM >>> Doug Simpson wrote: > > Yes the server itself can reach the destination. It is on the > 10.40.x.x network. The computers in the lab are on a 192.168.100.x > network. Can you run a traceroute to the IP in question? I think we need a little more on the layout of your network. eg. LTSP server 10.40.x.1, how many interfaces? > > On a side note, when I did get into it (now I can't and that is a > different discussion) I was told to add a route and after I did that, > it brought the rest of the Internet traffic to a screeching halt > whenever NAT was running. As a result, I had to completely take the > NAT server out of the equation until I can get that fixed, but I > can't get back into the system-config-network with a GUI so I have > the route add options. (do you know of a way to do that from a text > console?) route -n will show the routes numerically route add -net 192.168.100.0 gw (IP address of a machine/router reachable by the 10.40.x server) will add the 192.168.100.0 network and should only route hosts based upon that network - note that you can also use the netmask option to limit which hosts appear in the range. route will also take the host as a parameter, eg. route add -host 192.168.100.45 (the machine hosting the files that you want) gw 10.40.x > > I may just rebuild that server from scratch. . . it has been running > fine until a few days ago when I started mucking with it to get those > computers to see out.. . > > But that is another day's project. . . I would like to get it > working anyway, though. . . > > Doug _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 15:20:44 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:20:44 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: <774593a20902022354p5486f5aat3c5997cf64d6894b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> <4985BDAB.8060401@cmosnetworks.com> <774593a20902022354p5486f5aat3c5997cf64d6894b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It is getting the same IP as before -- I checked it by running ifconfig on the thin client shell. It seems there are so many small issues here and there that on IRC it was strongly recommended that I upgrade to K12Linux, which uses LTSP 5.x as LTSP 4.x is far too old. Just looking into that now. One of them problems of doing that is none of our thin clients now will work with it as they are too old -- Pentium 1 with 1 or 2 mb video cards (S3 trio). Hopefully the positives outway the negatives. Joseph On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Sudev Barar wrote: > 2009/2/1 Joseph Bishay : >> Can you believe this? It stopped working! >> > > Is the terminal getting same IP that has been defined under CUPS? I > suspect you are getting different IP now and that is why you need to > fix IP for all thin clients that are connected to printer/scanner etc. > > -- > Regards, > Sudev Barar > Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. > > PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they > are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of > email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on > meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. > Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message > appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and > persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, > spread the message. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From sbarar at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 15:28:27 2009 From: sbarar at gmail.com (Sudev Barar) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:58:27 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> <4985BDAB.8060401@cmosnetworks.com> <774593a20902022354p5486f5aat3c5997cf64d6894b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <774593a20902030728h76384b71x5def14d3b14c8273@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/3 Joseph Bishay : > It is getting the same IP as before -- I checked it by running > ifconfig on the thin client shell. > > It seems there are so many small issues here and there that on IRC it > was strongly recommended that I upgrade to K12Linux, which uses LTSP > 5.x as LTSP 4.x is far too old. > I also found that 5.x is too intensive for older computers and have remained with 4.x One thing that worked in many cases is that a[art from fixing Ip through dhcpd define the client section with MAC address in the configuration file /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf So if your section is some thing like [ws250] ....... ...... Change this to something like [ 00:1a:73:3b:01:ed] .... ..... Hope this helps. -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, spread the message. From lesmikesell at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 15:57:28 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:57:28 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] NAT and connections through it. In-Reply-To: <4988082E.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <4980051F.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4986FAA2.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49875750.60303@gmail.com> <4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4987EBC6.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <49884650.4030501@gmail.com> <4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us><4987F478.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> <498853A3.2070501@rwcinc.net> <4988082E.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <49886968.9030408@gmail.com> Doug Simpson wrote: > ltsp server: > 2 nics. > > eth0: 192.168.0.254 > eth1: 10.40.12.22 > > I will have to go get it re-connected to get the traceroute done. . .I had to completely pull it out of the network since it was killing all Internet traffic for all computers on both networks. > > I may just re-install that one to a different version (that one is real old anyway). > > We'll see what happens after that. . . > > More later. . . I'll quit wasting your time with this for now. . .may be abck with it. . . > It sounds like you are swatting mosquitoes with a sledgehammer... Getting packets back and forth between any two points isn't really that complicated. However, if you are still running the old k12ltsp, it should be the EL5 version, with updates, so if you have anything else a re-install isn't a waste of time. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From microman at cmosnetworks.com Tue Feb 3 16:09:10 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:09:10 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> <4985BDAB.8060401@cmosnetworks.com> <774593a20902022354p5486f5aat3c5997cf64d6894b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49886C26.6020808@cmosnetworks.com> There's nothing wrong with those "old" thin clients. I use LTSP 4.x as well with K12LTSP 5.0EL., and it works great for me. And yep, one of my clients is a Pentium-MMX 166 with an S3 Trio64+ video card. As for that printer, sure, I can believe it stopped working. This "hang the printer off the thin client" bit is a hack. Seriously, just pick up a cheapie print server for that printer, have the K12LTSP server itself talk to it (via the network), and be done with it. You're spending way too much time on this. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Joseph Bishay wrote: > It is getting the same IP as before -- I checked it by running > ifconfig on the thin client shell. > > It seems there are so many small issues here and there that on IRC it > was strongly recommended that I upgrade to K12Linux, which uses LTSP > 5.x as LTSP 4.x is far too old. > > Just looking into that now. One of them problems of doing that is > none of our thin clients now will work with it as they are too old -- > Pentium 1 with 1 or 2 mb video cards (S3 trio). > > Hopefully the positives outway the negatives. > > Joseph > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Sudev Barar wrote: > >> 2009/2/1 Joseph Bishay : >> >>> Can you believe this? It stopped working! >>> >>> >> Is the terminal getting same IP that has been defined under CUPS? I >> suspect you are getting different IP now and that is why you need to >> fix IP for all thin clients that are connected to printer/scanner etc. >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Sudev Barar >> Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. >> >> PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they >> are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of >> email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on >> meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. >> Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message >> appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and >> persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, >> spread the message. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rowens at ptd.net Tue Feb 3 18:13:15 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:13:15 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Very frustrating! In-Reply-To: References: <1233414427.9590.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <774593a20901311900j1c0f1937jcb955c06582e12fe@mail.gmail.com> <4985BDAB.8060401@cmosnetworks.com> <774593a20902022354p5486f5aat3c5997cf64d6894b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090203181315.GF10296@junker.owens.net> In my opinion, the biggest reason to go to LTSP 5 is for newer video drivers and for easier local applications. I wouldn't switch for a printer, especially your printer since it is cheap to replace and has already outlasted its expected life. I do recommend you start experimenting w/ LTSP 5 so that you'll be ready someday when you need it. But right now it doesn't sound like you really need it. -Rob On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 10:20:44AM -0500, Joseph Bishay wrote: > It is getting the same IP as before -- I checked it by running > ifconfig on the thin client shell. > > It seems there are so many small issues here and there that on IRC it > was strongly recommended that I upgrade to K12Linux, which uses LTSP > 5.x as LTSP 4.x is far too old. > > Just looking into that now. One of them problems of doing that is > none of our thin clients now will work with it as they are too old -- > Pentium 1 with 1 or 2 mb video cards (S3 trio). > > Hopefully the positives outway the negatives. > > Joseph > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Sudev Barar wrote: > > 2009/2/1 Joseph Bishay : > >> Can you believe this? It stopped working! > >> > > > > Is the terminal getting same IP that has been defined under CUPS? I > > suspect you are getting different IP now and that is why you need to > > fix IP for all thin clients that are connected to printer/scanner etc. > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Sudev Barar > > Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. > > > > PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they > > are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of > > email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on > > meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. > > Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message > > appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and > > persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, > > spread the message. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Feb 3 18:25:15 2009 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 13:25:15 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Announcing K12Linux F10 Live Server Message-ID: <49888C0B.3020008@redhat.com> The K12Linux team is proud to announce the release of K12Linux F10 Live Server. K12Linux is Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP.org) integrated with Fedora 10, in a convenient LiveUSB or DVD media installer. Since 1999 LTSP has empowered many schools and businesses with Linux-based terminal servers and thin clients, allowing low-cost clients or recycled computers to become powerful Linux desktop machines. K12Linux allows easy deployment of a Linux terminal server, capable of serving entire networks of netboot diskless clients. Clients login to the central terminal server, where they can use any Linux desktop environment (GNOME, KDE, XFCE, etc.) and most desktop applications. Significant long-term cost savings are made possible by central management of software and accounts. The clients are stateless, making them easy to maintain and replace by on-site staff with minimal training. https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/LiveServer The important feature of K12Linux is the Live Server media. With K12Linux Live Server, you can boot a terminal server from USB stick and demo K12Linux server without touching your hard drive. With this demo mode, you can network boot an entire network of diskless thin clients within minutes. This same media can install a preconfigured LTSP server upon your hard drive within a few minutes. Features ======== * Auto-configuration of diskless thin clients. Just plug in hardware and set the BIOS to PXE boot, no configuration necessary to add or replace clients. Same hardware support capability as Fedora 10 kernel and X.org. * Applications like OpenOffice.org or Firefox are typically faster than a standalone Linux desktop because they are already in memory in use by other users. * Sound is automatically forwarded over the network via pulseaudio. Composite capable hardware can use compiz over the network. * Local Application Support Certain multimedia apps like Firefox, movie players, 3D applications can be configured to run as locally on the client hardware. K12Linux enables seemless integration of these local applications with automatic remote home directory mounting and XDG menu integration. (Recommended minimum 1GB RAM on the client.) * Local Storage Devices Support Floppy, CD/DVD and USB storage plugged into thin clients appear on your remote desktop. Hotplug events and the filesystem mounts are forwarded over the network. Remote or local applications can seamlessly use your local storage device. Home Page ========= http://k12linux.org Find downloads and documentation at the K12Linux Home Page. Mailing Lists ============= https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-announce-list Announcements Only https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn/ User Discussion https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12linux-devel-list Development Discussion Acknowledgements ================ Special thanks to Ryan Niebur and Peter Scheie for their work on Fedora LTSP. Also thanks to Eric Harrison, Vagrant Cascadian, Gideon Romm, Oliver Grawert, Jim McQuillan and DisklessWorkstations.com for making LTSP possible all these years. Inquiries ========= https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn/ All inquiries should go to this list, which requires subscription before you post. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From moon at smbis.com Tue Feb 3 22:53:49 2009 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:53:49 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients Message-ID: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> Given Red Hat's limited at best interest in Thin Client computing technology, I can bet they won't be looking at growth this year or next like they have had given the current economic downturn and the business sector looking to reduce costs. Especially given the degree of partnering going on among vendors to address the issues. Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=86078 http://www.novell.com/products/thinclient/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 01:55:42 2009 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:55:42 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Announcing K12Linux F10 Live Server In-Reply-To: <49888C0B.3020008@redhat.com> References: <49888C0B.3020008@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4988F59E.7010003@redhat.com> http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/ltsp/5.1.58/1.fc10/ Doh! Local apps was broken. This is a must fix if we want a stable version for the next few months. http://delphi.bos.redhat.com/images/released/stable4/ The ISO is respun here. Only change is fixing local apps. We are verifying that this has no regressions since Stable 3 before updating the download links on k12linux.org. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 02:14:42 2009 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:14:42 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Announcing K12Linux F10 Live Server In-Reply-To: <4988F59E.7010003@redhat.com> References: <49888C0B.3020008@redhat.com> <4988F59E.7010003@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4988FA12.5080504@redhat.com> Warren Togami wrote: > http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/ltsp/5.1.58/1.fc10/ > Doh! Local apps was broken. This is a must fix if we want a stable > version for the next few months. > > http://delphi.bos.redhat.com/images/released/stable4/ > The ISO is respun here. Only change is fixing local apps. We are > verifying that this has no regressions since Stable 3 before updating > the download links on k12linux.org. > Doh! http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/k12linux/f10/stable4/ Here is the correct URL. Warren From robark at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 04:48:03 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:48:03 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> Message-ID: 2009/2/3 Moon : > Given Red Hat's limited at best interest in Thin Client computing > technology, I can bet they won't be looking at growth this year or next like > they have had given the current economic downturn and the business sector > looking to reduce costs. Especially given the degree of partnering going on > among vendors to address the issues. Moon, Making antagonistic and punitive statements are not constructive. Fedora and K12Linux are sponsored by Red Hat, as is this list. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From moon at smbis.com Wed Feb 4 05:26:35 2009 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:26:35 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> Message-ID: <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> Sorry, wasn't intended to be. I'm well aware that Red Hat supports the Fedora and K12Linux projects, and not without significant return on investment mind you. I was just pointing out that Red Hat seems to keep slipping in key growth areas, like workstation, Thin Client, and other small-medium business solutions. Novell is making choosing SUSE a no brainer choice by focusing on small-medium business solutions. I would really hate to see Novell overtake Red Hat in this Linux market. Hopefully Red Hat reads these posts and takes notice... On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 20:48 -0800, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > 2009/2/3 Moon : > > Given Red Hat's limited at best interest in Thin Client computing > > technology, I can bet they won't be looking at growth this year or next like > > they have had given the current economic downturn and the business sector > > looking to reduce costs. Especially given the degree of partnering going on > > among vendors to address the issues. > > Moon, > Making antagonistic and punitive statements are not constructive. > Fedora and K12Linux are sponsored by Red Hat, as is this list. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robark at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 05:41:38 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:41:38 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] Fwd: A new way to learn the piano - a useful Edubuntu program? In-Reply-To: <21820856.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <21820856.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Louis B. Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:28 PM Subject: A new way to learn the piano - a useful Edubuntu program? To: edubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com Hi All, I am the author of Piano Booster and I though it might be a useful educational program to include with Edubuntu. Piano Booster is a new free Open Source Application that makes sight reading music fun. It takes elements of the game Guitar Hero but now it uses a real Piano Keyboard and the game has been turned sideways so the notes scroll along a musical stave. So instead of pressing buttons on a fake guitar you end up learning to play a real musical instrument -- the piano. To find out what it is all about take a look at the YouTube video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UGbfm8Tv-20 or look at the screen shot: http://pianobooster.sourceforge.net/images/LinuxScreenShot.png First choose a MIDI file then select the "left" hand or the "right" hand or if you are feeling really brave choose "both hands" and try to play along. The "Follow You" mode make it really easy to sight read the scrolling notes as the whole accompaniment will stop and wait for you to find and play the right notes. The accuracy bar monitors how well you are playing. The software is available for free (Open Source GPL) for both Linux and Windows from this site: http://pianobooster.sourceforge.net/ I am not sure how to get this program considered for inclusion with Edubuntu. Thanks L o u i s B a r m a n -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/A-new-way-to-learn-the-piano---a-useful-Edubuntu-program--tp21820856p21820856.html Sent from the edubuntu-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- edubuntu-users mailing list edubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From microman at cmosnetworks.com Wed Feb 4 09:06:11 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?UTF-8?B?IlRlcnJlbGwgUHJ1ZMOpIEpyLiI=?=) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:06:11 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> Message-ID: <49895A83.8090309@cmosnetworks.com> Not a good way to do that, Moon. Where do you think Warren Togami comes from? You did notice that his email address ends in "@redhat.com", right? The fact that Red Hat has stayed true to its Free Software roots (thus making CentOS possible) makes choosing Red Hat a no-brainer for me. I don't see Novell sponsoring this list. I don't see an educational/LTSP-ifyed version of SuSE Linux that is totally Free Software. But I sure do see a Red Hat version of it. It's called K12LTSP/K12Linux, specifically designed for--that's right--thin clients. And Canonical's doing the same with Edubuntu. Please remember to give credit where it's due. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Moon wrote: > Sorry, wasn't intended to be. I'm well aware that Red Hat supports the > Fedora and K12Linux projects, and not without significant return on > investment mind you. I was just pointing out that Red Hat seems to > keep slipping in key growth areas, like workstation, Thin Client, and > other small-medium business solutions. Novell is making choosing SUSE > a no brainer choice by focusing on small-medium business solutions. I > would really hate to see Novell overtake Red Hat in this Linux market. > Hopefully Red Hat reads these posts and takes notice... > > > On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 20:48 -0800, Robert Arkiletian wrote: >> 2009/2/3 Moon >: >> > Given Red Hat's limited at best interest in Thin Client computing >> > technology, I can bet they won't be looking at growth this year or next like >> > they have had given the current economic downturn and the business sector >> > looking to reduce costs. Especially given the degree of partnering going on >> > among vendors to address the issues. >> >> Moon, >> Making antagonistic and punitive statements are not constructive. >> Fedora and K12Linux are sponsored by Red Hat, as is this list. >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott at hosef.org Wed Feb 4 09:53:19 2009 From: scott at hosef.org (R. Scott Belford) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:53:19 -1000 Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <49895A83.8090309@cmosnetworks.com> References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> <49895A83.8090309@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: I believe that the point Moon has made is that the Company, Novell, with its sponsored gnu/linux distribution called SuSE, as well as its free, community alternative, OpenSuse(1), has made a commitment to thin client computing. This means that you have enterprise support, marketing, and a completely free alternative. The OEM deals, while not appealing to me, make it more palatable to those with budgets and OPM. If Red Hat puts a team behind the Desktop and Thin Clients, then they, too, can be said to be making a Company commitment to said technologies. Warren, while an employee, is not bringing forth a Red Hat branded and supported thin client solution. He is performing an extraordinary act of community contribution, as a Red Hat employee, and we all hope that it succeeds to the point that it makes its way into the RHEL stack. This is still an important (and arguably tragic) distinction when the part of the adoption curve you are pushing is not at the level of the early adopters but rather at the level of the check writers. --scott 1 http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP 2009/2/3 "Terrell Prud? Jr." : > Not a good way to do that, Moon. Where do you think Warren Togami comes > from? You did notice that his email address ends in "@redhat.com", right? > > The fact that Red Hat has stayed true to its Free Software roots (thus > making CentOS possible) makes choosing Red Hat a no-brainer for me. I don't > see Novell sponsoring this list. I don't see an educational/LTSP-ifyed > version of SuSE Linux that is totally Free Software. But I sure do see a > Red Hat version of it. It's called K12LTSP/K12Linux, specifically designed > for--that's right--thin clients. And Canonical's doing the same with > Edubuntu. > > Please remember to give credit where it's due. > > --TP > _______________________________ > Do you GNU? > Microsoft Free since 2003--the ultimate antivirus protection! > > > Moon wrote: > > Sorry, wasn't intended to be. I'm well aware that Red Hat supports the > Fedora and K12Linux projects, and not without significant return on > investment mind you. I was just pointing out that Red Hat seems to keep > slipping in key growth areas, like workstation, Thin Client, and other > small-medium business solutions. Novell is making choosing SUSE a no > brainer choice by focusing on small-medium business solutions. I would > really hate to see Novell overtake Red Hat in this Linux market. Hopefully > Red Hat reads these posts and takes notice... > > > On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 20:48 -0800, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > > 2009/2/3 Moon : >> Given Red Hat's limited at best interest in Thin Client computing >> technology, I can bet they won't be looking at growth this year or next >> like >> they have had given the current economic downturn and the business sector >> looking to reduce costs. Especially given the degree of partnering going >> on >> among vendors to address the issues. > > Moon, > Making antagonistic and punitive statements are not constructive. > Fedora and K12Linux are sponsored by Red Hat, as is this list. > > > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk Wed Feb 4 12:02:34 2009 From: brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk (Brian Chivers) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:02:34 +0000 Subject: [K12OSN] Help with php / mysql Message-ID: <498983DA.7010607@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> I'm trying to insert the text below into a mysql table but it's complaining, I think it's the ' that's causing the problem. childrens's/youth program (general) The table is called stream and the field I'm trying to insert into is called genre and it's a varchar(200) collation utf_general_ci This is the command I'm using mysql_query(INSERT INTO stream (channel, starttime, title, description, genre, filename) VALUES ('$channel','$starttime','$title','$description','$genre','$filename')); All the other fields work OK & if I remove the ' from $genre it works OK. Did think about doing a search & replace before I insert but I'd have to do it on the other fields as well so I'd like to be able to solve it another way :-) Thanks Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily the views of Portsmouth College From k12ltsp at rwcinc.net Wed Feb 4 12:50:46 2009 From: k12ltsp at rwcinc.net (Patrick Fleming) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 05:50:46 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Help with php / mysql In-Reply-To: <498983DA.7010607@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> References: <498983DA.7010607@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49898F26.2070205@rwcinc.net> Brian Chivers wrote: > I'm trying to insert the text below into a mysql table but it's > complaining, I think it's the ' that's causing the problem. > > childrens's/youth program (general) > > The table is called stream and the field I'm trying to insert into is > called genre and it's a varchar(200) collation utf_general_ci > > This is the command I'm using > > mysql_query(INSERT INTO stream (channel, starttime, title, description, > genre, filename) VALUES > ('$channel','$starttime','$title','$description','$genre','$filename')); > > All the other fields work OK & if I remove the ' from $genre it works OK. Check out addslashes(), stripslashes() also look up mysql escape strings. You are apparently not cleaning up and sanitizing your data - which opens up you application for SQL Injection attacks. You want to start with $channel = addslashes($channel); $starttime = addslashes($starttime); even better - $channel = addslashes($_POST['channel']); mysql_query(INSERT INTO stream (channel, starttime, title, description, genre, filename) VALUES ('$channel','$starttime','$title','$description','$genre','$filename')); > > Did think about doing a search & replace before I insert but I'd have to > do it on the other fields as well so I'd like to be able to solve it > another way :-) > > Thanks > Brian > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily > > the views of Portsmouth College > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From henryhartley at westat.com Wed Feb 4 14:32:54 2009 From: henryhartley at westat.com (Henry Hartley) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 09:32:54 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Help with php / mysql In-Reply-To: <49898F26.2070205@rwcinc.net> Message-ID: <62432006F5965C42BAEC4EA29286EE0507B4C33BEB@EX-CMS01.westat.com> Patrick Fleming wrote: >> >> Brian Chivers wrote: >> > mysql_query(INSERT INTO stream (channel, starttime, title, description, >> > genre, filename) VALUES >> > ('$channel','$starttime','$title','$description','$genre','$filename')); >> >> even better - >> $channel = addslashes($_POST['channel']); >> >> mysql_query(INSERT INTO stream (channel, starttime, title, description, >> genre, filename) VALUES >> ('$channel','$starttime','$title','$description','$genre','$filename')); Or even better still: $query = sprintf("INSERT INTO (channel, starttime, title, description, genre, filename) VALUES ( '%s', '%s', '%s', '%s', '%s', '%s' )"), mysql_real_escape_string($channel), mysql_real_escape_string($starttime), mysql_real_escape_string($title), mysql_real_escape_string($description), mysql_real_escape_string($genre), mysql_real_escape_string($filename')); mysql_query($query); Read this page: http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.mysql-real-escape-string.php If you aren't familiar with SQL Injection, you really (REALLY) need to read up on it. In particular, don't get the idea that only strings need to be managed. Here's a good place to start: http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=5416 -- Henry From accessys at smart.net Wed Feb 4 14:47:58 2009 From: accessys at smart.net (Accessys@smart.net) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 09:47:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> Message-ID: I wouldn't worry about it, Dell may offer Linux operating systems but try actually getting one. I have one on order from Dell and I've already had the ship date pushed back 4 times by Dell now over 6 weeks and still waiting to actually see the dang thing. Bob On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Moon wrote: > Sorry, wasn't intended to be. I'm well aware that Red Hat supports the > Fedora and K12Linux projects, and not without significant return on > investment mind you. I was just pointing out that Red Hat seems to keep > slipping in key growth areas, like workstation, Thin Client, and other > small-medium business solutions. Novell is making choosing SUSE a no > brainer choice by focusing on small-medium business solutions. I would > really hate to see Novell overtake Red Hat in this Linux market. > Hopefully Red Hat reads these posts and takes notice... > > > On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 20:48 -0800, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > > > 2009/2/3 Moon : > > > Given Red Hat's limited at best interest in Thin Client computing > > > technology, I can bet they won't be looking at growth this year or next like > > > they have had given the current economic downturn and the business sector > > > looking to reduce costs. Especially given the degree of partnering going on > > > among vendors to address the issues. > > > > Moon, > > Making antagonistic and punitive statements are not constructive. > > Fedora and K12Linux are sponsored by Red Hat, as is this list. > > > - end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From rbachelier at aesis-conseil.com Wed Feb 4 15:26:11 2009 From: rbachelier at aesis-conseil.com (Richard Bachelier) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:26:11 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] client hostname In-Reply-To: References: <200901291655.15334.rbachelier@aesis-conseil.com> Message-ID: <200902041626.11826.rbachelier@aesis-conseil.com> Hi, no change. I only use the get-lease-host-names option in my dhcpd.conf My hosts file is right my thin client always have a default hostaname (client-XXXXXX) no idea ? thanks Richard Le Friday 30 January 2009 00:21:29 Almquist Burke, vous avez ?crit?: > You want to use "get-lease-host-names". You also need to make sure > your DNS or hosts file has a hostname for each IP. If you want to > assign specific IPs to specific machines, you need to tell DHCP to > assign specific IPs to MAC addresses. > > On Jan 29, 2009, at 9:55 AM, Richard Bachelier wrote: > > Hi, > > > > How to set the hostname for client ? always client-XX.XX.XX.XX in > > my login > > screen > > > > I tried 'use-host-decl-names' or 'get-lease-hostnames' in > > dhcpd.conf without > > change > > > > conf : > > Fedora 10 > > ltsp-server 5.1.44 > > > > thanks a lot > > > > Richard > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 15:59:53 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:59:53 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? Message-ID: Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). The webmail packages I have seen online are: 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via the smartphone's IMAP... Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? Thank you Joseph P.S. One last thing I'm thinking about is using the built-in email client that OpenGoo has (http://www.opengoo.org/) but I'm not sure if it's suppose to be ready for prime-time yet. From brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk Wed Feb 4 16:04:18 2009 From: brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk (Brian Chivers) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:04:18 +0000 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4989BC82.4080102@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> Can I add one www.atmail.com We use it and it's quite nice & the do an open source version as well :-) Brian Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, > > I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a > pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's > connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. > I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should > install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will > have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most > of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be > moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well > as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). > > The webmail packages I have seen online are: > > 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) > 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) > 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) > 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) > 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) > 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) > > Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program > allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via > the smartphone's IMAP... > > Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? > > Thank you > Joseph > > P.S. One last thing I'm thinking about is using the built-in email > client that OpenGoo has (http://www.opengoo.org/) but I'm not sure if > it's suppose to be ready for prime-time yet. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily the views of Portsmouth College From dyioulos at firstbhph.com Wed Feb 4 16:05:34 2009 From: dyioulos at firstbhph.com (Dimitri Yioulos) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:05:34 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200902041105.35187.dyioulos@firstbhph.com> On Wednesday 04 February 2009 10:59 am, Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, > > I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a > pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's > connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. > I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should > install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will > have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most > of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be > moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well > as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). > > The webmail packages I have seen online are: > > 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) > 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) > 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) > 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) > 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) > 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) > > Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program > allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via > the smartphone's IMAP... > > Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? > > Thank you > Joseph > > P.S. One last thing I'm thinking about is using the built-in email > client that OpenGoo has (http://www.opengoo.org/) but I'm not sure if > it's suppose to be ready for prime-time yet. > We've used OpenWebmail in our shop for the last three or four years. It works extremely well, and is easy on the end user. Dimitri -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From tnelson at rockbochs.com Wed Feb 4 16:09:52 2009 From: tnelson at rockbochs.com (Tim Nelson) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:09:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: <12618084.421233763697971.JavaMail.root@zmail.rockbochs.com> Message-ID: <14820610.441233763792253.JavaMail.root@zmail.rockbochs.com> ----- "Joseph Bishay" wrote: > Hello > People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, Greetings! > <...details...> > > The webmail packages I have seen online are: > 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) > 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) > 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) > 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) > 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) > 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) If you're looking for ease of use combined with the best feature set, I'd whole-heartedly recommend Horde. If you want super-duper shiny things, Roundcube is nice but still a little TOO beta for my tastes. Squirrelmail works but doesn't have the featureset Horde has. As long as you're comfortable working with the backend daemons (qmail/postfix/dovecot/etc) then the above options are looking good for you. If you'd like something thats quite a bit easier to administer, I highly recommend Zimbra. It handles all of the backend setup/configuration and has the *BEST* user experience of any. You can of course choose to dive into the 'guts' of it but typically it isn't needed. > > Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail > program > allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it > via > the smartphone's IMAP... IMAP would work. Zimbra has some sort of smartphone connectivity option I believe. Tim Nelson Systems/Network Support Rockbochs Inc. (218)727-4332 x105 From moon at smbis.com Wed Feb 4 16:24:07 2009 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:24:07 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> <49895A83.8090309@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <1233764647.6304.18.camel@mws.localdomain> I am well aware of who Warren is and his contributions, for which I am grateful. But as Scott noted, without 100% commitment by Red Hat to the SMB (Small and Medium Business) market sector for their business needs, Red Hat's thunder may be stolen by companies that are more SMB market focused. The SMB market will be the area where Linux is successful or not. I've been around long enough and have seen many companies come and go that kept their focus on the big prize, the enterprise business sector. Even Cisco has made changes to their business strategy to now put more focus on the SMB market sector, as they have noted that it is the area where there is greater growth. Even Microsoft with their product line knows you have to give customers what they want and need or they'll not buy, look at their Vista snafu because they didn't pay attention to the SMB market needs. BTW, I am 100% pro Red Hat and would love to expand my business opportunities with them, but I have to have what the customer wants and needs to make a living at it... On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 23:53 -1000, R. Scott Belford wrote: > I believe that the point Moon has made is that the Company, Novell, > with its sponsored gnu/linux distribution called SuSE, as well as its > free, community alternative, OpenSuse(1), has made a commitment to > thin client computing. This means that you have enterprise support, > marketing, and a completely free alternative. The OEM deals, while > not appealing to me, make it more palatable to those with budgets and > OPM. > > If Red Hat puts a team behind the Desktop and Thin Clients, then they, > too, can be said to be making a Company commitment to said > technologies. Warren, while an employee, is not bringing forth a Red > Hat branded and supported thin client solution. He is performing an > extraordinary act of community contribution, as a Red Hat employee, > and we all hope that it succeeds to the point that it makes its way > into the RHEL stack. > > This is still an important (and arguably tragic) distinction when the > part of the adoption curve you are pushing is not at the level of the > early adopters but rather at the level of the check writers. > > --scott > > 1 http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP > > 2009/2/3 "Terrell Prud? Jr." : > > Not a good way to do that, Moon. Where do you think Warren Togami comes > > from? You did notice that his email address ends in "@redhat.com", right? > > > > The fact that Red Hat has stayed true to its Free Software roots (thus > > making CentOS possible) makes choosing Red Hat a no-brainer for me. I don't > > see Novell sponsoring this list. I don't see an educational/LTSP-ifyed > > version of SuSE Linux that is totally Free Software. But I sure do see a > > Red Hat version of it. It's called K12LTSP/K12Linux, specifically designed > > for--that's right--thin clients. And Canonical's doing the same with > > Edubuntu. > > > > Please remember to give credit where it's due. > > > > --TP > > _______________________________ > > Do you GNU? > > Microsoft Free since 2003--the ultimate antivirus protection! > > > > > > Moon wrote: > > > > Sorry, wasn't intended to be. I'm well aware that Red Hat supports the > > Fedora and K12Linux projects, and not without significant return on > > investment mind you. I was just pointing out that Red Hat seems to keep > > slipping in key growth areas, like workstation, Thin Client, and other > > small-medium business solutions. Novell is making choosing SUSE a no > > brainer choice by focusing on small-medium business solutions. I would > > really hate to see Novell overtake Red Hat in this Linux market. Hopefully > > Red Hat reads these posts and takes notice... > > > > > > On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 20:48 -0800, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > > > > 2009/2/3 Moon : > >> Given Red Hat's limited at best interest in Thin Client computing > >> technology, I can bet they won't be looking at growth this year or next > >> like > >> they have had given the current economic downturn and the business sector > >> looking to reduce costs. Especially given the degree of partnering going > >> on > >> among vendors to address the issues. > > > > Moon, > > Making antagonistic and punitive statements are not constructive. > > Fedora and K12Linux are sponsored by Red Hat, as is this list. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lesmikesell at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 16:24:37 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:24:37 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4989C145.6000402@gmail.com> Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, > > I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a > pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's > connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. > I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should > install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will > have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most > of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be > moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well > as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). > > The webmail packages I have seen online are: > > 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) > 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) > 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) > 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) > 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) > 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) > > Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program > allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via > the smartphone's IMAP... > > Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? If you really want ease-of-administration, look at the free SME server distribution from http://www.contribs.org. You'll have to reinstall, but everything will come up working out of the box and it will still be mostly centos code under the covers. It will include pop and imap email plus the hoard webmail interface plus a lot of other stuff that you may or may not care about - all managed with a simple web interface. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From nils at breun.nl Wed Feb 4 16:25:54 2009 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 17:25:54 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1CD57D36-DD6A-4AAB-8936-0F9DFAD423D4@breun.nl> Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google- > results, > > I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a > pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's > connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. > I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should > install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will > have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most > of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be > moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well > as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). Do you know about Google Apps? It will let you use Gmail and the other Google services on your own domain. > The webmail packages I have seen online are: > > 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) > 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) > 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) > 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) > 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) > 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) > > Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program > allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via > the smartphone's IMAP... SquirrelMail is available as an RPM in CentOS. I don't think the others are. SquirrelMail uses frames though, which doesn't work very well on mobile devices. Gmail does have a nice mobile interface AFAIK. > Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? SquirrelMail has been around for quite some time and is pretty stable in my opinion. There are also lots of plugins available for it. I don't like Horde's interface myself (way too cluttered), but there is also a mobile interface for that, although I'm not sure if it's done yet. I believe it's called MIMP. Roundcube looks nice, but doesn't feel very finished to me. Personally I think I might just go with Google Apps in this case, unless you really want 100% control yourself. Nils Breunese. From CSYPERSKI at dupage88.net Wed Feb 4 16:03:53 2009 From: CSYPERSKI at dupage88.net (CHUCK SYPERSKI) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:03:53 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49896806.E4A8.0041.0@dupage88.net> I would recommend zimbra, we are running the open source edition with over 4000 students on it. >>> Joseph Bishay 2/4/2009 9:59 AM >>> Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). The webmail packages I have seen online are: 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via the smartphone's IMAP... Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? Thank you Joseph P.S. One last thing I'm thinking about is using the built-in email client that OpenGoo has (http://www.opengoo.org/) but I'm not sure if it's suppose to be ready for prime-time yet. _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From accessys at smart.net Wed Feb 4 16:49:06 2009 From: accessys at smart.net (Accessys@smart.net) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:49:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: <1233764647.6304.18.camel@mws.localdomain> References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> <49895A83.8090309@cmosnetworks.com> <1233764647.6304.18.camel@mws.localdomain> Message-ID: I own a small business and ran Red Hat from about 4.1 or so up to RH10 and then found FC less than usefull and RH enterprise way over our heads technically and financiallly and switched to SUSE. Am now looking real close at Ubuntu but haven't made that commitment, yet. it almost seemed like Red Hat didn't want my business and yes we bought full versions with support. just one persons experience, I appreciate everything Red Hat does to support linux, I probably would not be using Linux today if it were not for the efforts of Red Hat years ago, but since RH 10 it seems they don't want my business anymore. Bob On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Moon wrote: > I am well aware of who Warren is and his contributions, for which I am > grateful. But as Scott noted, without 100% commitment by Red Hat to the > SMB (Small and Medium Business) market sector for their business needs, > Red Hat's thunder may be stolen by companies that are more SMB market > focused. The SMB market will be the area where Linux is successful or > not. I've been around long enough and have seen many companies come and > go that kept their focus on the big prize, the enterprise business > sector. Even Cisco has made changes to their business strategy to now > put more focus on the SMB market sector, as they have noted that it is > the area where there is greater growth. Even Microsoft with their > product line knows you have to give customers what they want and need or > they'll not buy, look at their Vista snafu because they didn't pay > attention to the SMB market needs. BTW, I am 100% pro Red Hat and would > love to expand my business opportunities with them, but I have to have > what the customer wants and needs to make a living at it... > > On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 23:53 -1000, R. Scott Belford wrote: > > > I believe that the point Moon has made is that the Company, Novell, > > with its sponsored gnu/linux distribution called SuSE, as well as its > > free, community alternative, OpenSuse(1), has made a commitment to > > thin client computing. This means that you have enterprise support, > > marketing, and a completely free alternative. The OEM deals, while > > not appealing to me, make it more palatable to those with budgets and > > OPM. > > > > If Red Hat puts a team behind the Desktop and Thin Clients, then they, > > too, can be said to be making a Company commitment to said > > technologies. Warren, while an employee, is not bringing forth a Red > > Hat branded and supported thin client solution. He is performing an > > extraordinary act of community contribution, as a Red Hat employee, > > and we all hope that it succeeds to the point that it makes its way > > into the RHEL stack. > > > > This is still an important (and arguably tragic) distinction when the > > part of the adoption curve you are pushing is not at the level of the > > early adopters but rather at the level of the check writers. > > > > --scott > > > > 1 http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP > > > > 2009/2/3 "Terrell Prud?? Jr." : > > > Not a good way to do that, Moon. Where do you think Warren Togami comes > > > from? You did notice that his email address ends in "@redhat.com", right? > > > > > > The fact that Red Hat has stayed true to its Free Software roots (thus > > > making CentOS possible) makes choosing Red Hat a no-brainer for me. I don't > > > see Novell sponsoring this list. I don't see an educational/LTSP-ifyed > > > version of SuSE Linux that is totally Free Software. But I sure do see a > > > Red Hat version of it. It's called K12LTSP/K12Linux, specifically designed > > > for--that's right--thin clients. And Canonical's doing the same with > > > Edubuntu. > > > > > > Please remember to give credit where it's due. > > > > > > --TP > > > _______________________________ > > > Do you GNU? > > > Microsoft Free since 2003--the ultimate antivirus protection! > > > > > > > > > Moon wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, wasn't intended to be. I'm well aware that Red Hat supports the > > > Fedora and K12Linux projects, and not without significant return on > > > investment mind you. I was just pointing out that Red Hat seems to keep > > > slipping in key growth areas, like workstation, Thin Client, and other > > > small-medium business solutions. Novell is making choosing SUSE a no > > > brainer choice by focusing on small-medium business solutions. I would > > > really hate to see Novell overtake Red Hat in this Linux market. Hopefully > > > Red Hat reads these posts and takes notice... > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 20:48 -0800, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > > > > > > 2009/2/3 Moon : > > >> Given Red Hat's limited at best interest in Thin Client computing > > >> technology, I can bet they won't be looking at growth this year or next > > >> like > > >> they have had given the current economic downturn and the business sector > > >> looking to reduce costs. Especially given the degree of partnering going > > >> on > > >> among vendors to address the issues. > > > > > > Moon, > > > Making antagonistic and punitive statements are not constructive. > > > Fedora and K12Linux are sponsored by Red Hat, as is this list. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > K12OSN mailing list > > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > > For more info see > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > K12OSN mailing list > > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > > For more info see > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > - end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From rowens at ptd.net Wed Feb 4 16:58:18 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:58:18 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4989C145.6000402@gmail.com> References: <4989C145.6000402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090204165818.GB9260@junker.owens.net> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:24:37AM -0600, Les Mikesell wrote: > Joseph Bishay wrote: > >Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, > > > >I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a > >pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's > >connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. > >I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should > >install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will > >have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most > >of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be > >moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well > >as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). > > > >The webmail packages I have seen online are: > > > >1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) > >2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) > >3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) > >4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) > >5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) > >6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) > > > >Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program > >allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via > >the smartphone's IMAP... > > > >Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? > > If you really want ease-of-administration, look at the free SME server > distribution from http://www.contribs.org. You'll have to reinstall, > but everything will come up working out of the box and it will still be > mostly centos code under the covers. It will include pop and imap email > plus the hoard webmail interface plus a lot of other stuff that you may > or may not care about - all managed with a simple web interface. > I tried out the latest SME Server a few days ago, and I was pretty impressed by the ease of setup and the features it provided. I suggest you at least give it a look. -Rob From julius at turtle.com Wed Feb 4 18:09:35 2009 From: julius at turtle.com (Julius Szelagiewicz) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 13:09:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, > > I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a > pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's > connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. > I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should > install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will > have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most > of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be > moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well > as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). > > The webmail packages I have seen online are: > > 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) > 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) > 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) > 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) > 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) > 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) > > Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program > allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via > the smartphone's IMAP... > > Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? > squirrellmail doesn't do phones. you may want to take a look at julius From wtogami at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 19:04:30 2009 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:04:30 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Re: Announcing K12Linux F10 Live Server In-Reply-To: <1304.71.58.197.201.1233768483.squirrel@webmail.taco.com> References: <1304.71.58.197.201.1233768483.squirrel@webmail.taco.com> Message-ID: <4989E6BE.8030102@redhat.com> Phydeaux wrote: >> I also had problems with booting from usb. Did you use the liveusb-creator >> on linux or window$? >> >> I used it on window$ many times without success, and finally gave up and >> burned it to dvd. Then it worked flawlessly. > > I used liveusb-creator on Windoze to with no problems. Will your > machine boot from USB keys programmed from other .iso images? > There seems to be a problem with liveusb-creator. I do not know for sure because I cannot reproduce these problems, but I suspect that it is not successfully installing the boot loader when run from Windows. http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/ltsp/k12linux/f10/stable4/livecd-iso-to-disk This script that should work on most Linux distributions with option --reset-mbr is sometimes necessary to make a USB stick bootable. What is the equivalent on Windows? I don't know. Most machines boot from USB stick if it is installed on the first partition, with the first partition marked bootable. (Example: /dev/sdb1) Some machines however are only able to boot from USB if you format the drive directly without partitions and install directly (Example: /dev/sdb). You can try these things if Live USB. If that doesn't work, then your only option is to burn it on a DVD. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk Wed Feb 4 20:15:16 2009 From: brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk (Brian Chivers) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:15:16 +0000 Subject: [K12OSN] Help with php / mysql In-Reply-To: <62432006F5965C42BAEC4EA29286EE0507B4C33BEB@EX-CMS01.westat.com> References: <62432006F5965C42BAEC4EA29286EE0507B4C33BEB@EX-CMS01.westat.com> Message-ID: <4989F754.6010001@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> Henry Hartley wrote: > Patrick Fleming wrote: > >>> Brian Chivers wrote: >>> >>>> mysql_query(INSERT INTO stream (channel, starttime, title, description, >>>> genre, filename) VALUES >>>> ('$channel','$starttime','$title','$description','$genre','$filename')); >>>> >>> even better - >>> $channel = addslashes($_POST['channel']); >>> >>> mysql_query(INSERT INTO stream (channel, starttime, title, description, >>> genre, filename) VALUES >>> ('$channel','$starttime','$title','$description','$genre','$filename')); >>> > > Or even better still: > > $query = sprintf("INSERT > INTO (channel, starttime, title, description, genre, filename) > VALUES ( '%s', '%s', '%s', '%s', '%s', '%s' )"), > mysql_real_escape_string($channel), > mysql_real_escape_string($starttime), > mysql_real_escape_string($title), > mysql_real_escape_string($description), > mysql_real_escape_string($genre), > mysql_real_escape_string($filename')); > > mysql_query($query); > > Read this page: > http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.mysql-real-escape-string.php > > If you aren't familiar with SQL Injection, you really (REALLY) need to read up on it. In particular, don't get the idea that only strings need to be managed. Here's a good place to start: > > http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=5416 > > -- > Henry > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > After a bit of head scratching as to why this would work I figured out that you had deliberately left out the table to insert the data too so it should be $insert_query = sprintf("INSERT INTO stream (channel, starttime, title, description, genre, filename) VALUES ('%s','%s','%s','%s','%s','%s')", mysql_real_escape_string($channel), mysql_real_escape_string($starttime), mysql_real_escape_string($title), mysql_real_escape_string($description), mysql_real_escape_string($genre), mysql_real_escape_string($filename)); Did I base the test :-) Seriously thanks for this it works a treat. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily the views of Portsmouth College From jbaillie at stmarys-school.org Wed Feb 4 20:58:11 2009 From: jbaillie at stmarys-school.org (John Baillie) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:58:11 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem Message-ID: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> Hello, We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus years. I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the lab terminals with mixed results. We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few months back. I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some manual adjustments to the display properties. I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I should make changes. John From reb at taco.com Wed Feb 4 21:13:27 2009 From: reb at taco.com (Phydeaux) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:13:27 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> Message-ID: <20090204211333.D74C860E28B@althea.taco.com> At 03:58 PM 02/04/09, John Baillie wrote: >We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 >2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. >This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus years. > >I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the lab terminals with mixed results. >We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. >The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S >We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few months back. >I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some manual adjustments to the display properties. >I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I should make changes. I believe the problems have to do with autodetection of the display adapter. I found that root of our problem was that the resolution of VGA monitors that were connected with analog cables was not being properly detected. This caused issues mainly with the startup login screen. The right hand part of the screen was stretched across the whole monitor so that the login box was barely visible. Some users also experienced resolution problems after login. For newer monitors and motherboards (x86_64), replacing the analog VGA cable with a DVI cable solved the problem. For our older i386 machines (mainly with Intel 810 hardware on the motherboard), swapping out the ancient CRTs for new flat panel displays (which was scheduled anyway) solved the problem. I'm not suggesting you obtain new hardware, just trying to provide a data point regarding what and where the problem is. reb From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com Wed Feb 4 22:44:08 2009 From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:44:08 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Fwd: A new way to learn the piano - a useful Edubuntu program? In-Reply-To: References: <21820856.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1233787448.10969.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Oh Wow! Oh Wow! Oh Wow!!!!! What a fantastic use of computers in a music environment!!!! Many thanks for sending this to the list, Robert. Finally a _good_ use for midi music :-) On Tue, 2009-02-03 at 21:41 -0800, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Louis B. > Date: Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:28 PM > Subject: A new way to learn the piano - a useful Edubuntu program? > To: edubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com > > > > Hi All, > > I am the author of Piano Booster and I though it might be a useful > educational program to include with Edubuntu. > > Piano Booster is a new free Open Source Application that makes sight > reading music fun. > > It takes elements of the game Guitar Hero but now it uses a real Piano > Keyboard and the game has been turned sideways so the notes scroll > along a musical stave. So instead of pressing buttons on a fake guitar > you end up learning to play a real musical instrument -- the piano. > > > To find out what it is all about take a look at the YouTube video: > > http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UGbfm8Tv-20 > > or look at the screen shot: > > http://pianobooster.sourceforge.net/images/LinuxScreenShot.png > > First choose a MIDI file then select the "left" hand or the "right" > hand or if you are feeling really brave choose "both hands" and try to > play along. The "Follow You" mode make it really easy to sight read > the scrolling notes as the whole accompaniment will stop and wait for > you to find and play the right notes. The accuracy bar monitors how > well you are playing. > > The software is available for free (Open Source GPL) for both Linux > and Windows from this site: > > http://pianobooster.sourceforge.net/ > > I am not sure how to get this program considered for inclusion with > Edubuntu. > > Thanks > > L o u i s B a r m a n > > -- > View this message in context: > http://www.nabble.com/A-new-way-to-learn-the-piano---a-useful-Edubuntu-program--tp21820856p21820856.html > Sent from the edubuntu-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > -- > edubuntu-users mailing list > edubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users > > > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ > C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- James P. Kinney III CEO & Director of Engineering Local Net Solutions,LLC http://www.localnetsolutions.com GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics) Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From brcisna at eazylivin.net Wed Feb 4 22:57:25 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:57:25 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? Message-ID: <1233788245.12452.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Any of the choices you have listed will work fine,for your requirements. We have used Squirrelmail for the last 5 years after dumping M$ Exchange (Thank you Lord), And SM has never dropped or given any fits. In a school enviornment its so difficult to change, I/We have just stuck with SM,as the no one likes to see a different look. ( this is commonly referred to as "set in your ways",,,synonymous with a school setting,:) If you are starting from scratch I think I would go with what Les Mikesell suggested in the SME server setup. Its hard to beat the "all in one " install of something like this for convence and getting up and running without having to add this to make that work,,,blah,,blah,,,. I'm sure that's a good thought trying to get smartphone support as they are really coming into play lately. If you don't consider this, sure enough someone will gripe " Why cant we use our new fangled $500 phone to look at email"! In our neck of the woods,you don't want to ever step out of your comfort zone,so I think the smartphone thing is a few decades off yet! People are in bed at 6pm each night and sidewalks are rolled up at the same time.Otherwise known as Podunk USA:). Let us know what you decide on. Take Care, Barry Cisna From lesmikesell at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 23:17:59 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:17:59 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: <1233788245.12452.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1233788245.12452.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <498A2227.7040500@gmail.com> Barry R Cisna wrote: > > If you are starting from scratch I think I would go with what Les > Mikesell suggested in the SME server setup. Its hard to beat the "all in > one " install of something like this for convence and getting up and > running without having to add this to make that work,,,blah,,blah,,,. > > I'm sure that's a good thought trying to get smartphone support as they > are really coming into play lately. If you don't consider this, sure > enough someone will gripe " Why cant we use our new fangled $500 phone > to look at email"! In our neck of the woods,you don't want to ever step > out of your comfort zone,so I think the smartphone thing is a few > decades off yet! I think you miss the point of smart phones - they should do all the work themselves and not need anything special on the host side. Set them up to use IMAP over ssl and point them to the same server that everything else uses. If you've selected public and private IMAPS in the SME server email setup, and authenticated SSMTP you can use phones along with any other imap clients to access your mail over the internet and you'll see the same mailbox you see with webmail. Did I mention that virus/spam filtering were included options as well? -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From robark at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 23:29:51 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:29:51 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] Fwd: A new way to learn the piano - a useful Edubuntu program? In-Reply-To: <1233787448.10969.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> References: <21820856.post@talk.nabble.com> <1233787448.10969.1.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:44 PM, James P. Kinney III wrote: > Oh Wow! Oh Wow! Oh Wow!!!!! > > What a fantastic use of computers in a music environment!!!! > > Many thanks for sending this to the list, Robert. > > Finally a _good_ use for midi music :-) have you seen this http://www.tuxguitar.com.ar/home.html -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From nils at breun.nl Wed Feb 4 23:34:38 2009 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 00:34:38 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> <49895A83.8090309@cmosnetworks.com> <1233764647.6304.18.camel@mws.localdomain> Message-ID: Bob wrote: > I own a small business and ran Red Hat from about 4.1 or so up to RH10 > and then found FC less than usefull and RH enterprise way over our > heads technically and financiallly and switched to SUSE. Am now > looking real close at Ubuntu but haven't made that commitment, yet. > > it almost seemed like Red Hat didn't want my business and yes we > bought full versions with support. > > just one persons experience, I appreciate everything Red Hat does to > support linux, I probably would not be using Linux today if it were > not for the efforts of Red Hat years ago, but since RH 10 it seems > they don't want my business anymore. I don't believe there ever was a Red Hat 10, right? I was wondering if CentOS wouldn't be a more logical OS to switch to when coming from Red Hat? Or are you getting SuSE with support? I actually kind of understand that a company might not want everybody's business. It might just make a whole lot more sense (business-wise) to concentrate on particular target audiences, although I have no idea if that was the case here. I do know that I have some investments in RPM and for that reason won't be switching to a DEB-based distro like Ubuntu for our servers any time soon. But it's a nice distro for the desktop and I use it quite frequently myself. But hey, that's nice thing about having a lot of distro's, right? Nils Breunese. From brcisna at eazylivin.net Wed Feb 4 23:41:46 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:41:46 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? Message-ID: <1233790906.19401.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Les, I was merely joking. The cost of smartphones are really getting competitive now. I'm sure everywhere these will be taking over all the kiddies,old "standard cell phones"(that don't have a dime to their names),:)..We have about only 8-10 people at school that are over the top geekheads/teachers that I've set up the SM user accounts on.This actually being just within the last few months. They do setup pretty slick. The Iphone being very simple and slim. Take Care, Barry Cisna From scott at hosef.org Wed Feb 4 23:42:02 2009 From: scott at hosef.org (R. Scott Belford) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 13:42:02 -1000 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: <498A2227.7040500@gmail.com> References: <1233788245.12452.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <498A2227.7040500@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Les Mikesell > Did I mention that virus/spam filtering were > included options as well? Les, I notice that SME server has a backup utility. Are you using this, are you still using BackupPC, and do you consider the SME backup utility to be on par with BackupPC? > > -- > Les Mikesell > lesmikesell at gmail.com --scott From accessys at smart.net Thu Feb 5 00:02:27 2009 From: accessys at smart.net (Accessys@smart.net) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:02:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [K12OSN] Dell Offers Enterprise Linux Operating System from Novell to Address Growing Market for Thin Clients In-Reply-To: References: <1233701629.6110.26.camel@mws.localdomain> <1233725195.15078.9.camel@mws.localdomain> <49895A83.8090309@cmosnetworks.com> <1233764647.6304.18.camel@mws.localdomain> Message-ID: we were getting support from Red Hat, and maybe we only went up to RH9 then switched to SUSE10 and the RPM issue is one of the reasons I haven't switched to Ubuntu yet. Bob On Thu, 5 Feb 2009, Nils Breunese wrote: > Bob wrote: > > > I own a small business and ran Red Hat from about 4.1 or so up to RH10 > > and then found FC less than usefull and RH enterprise way over our > > heads technically and financiallly and switched to SUSE. Am now > > looking real close at Ubuntu but haven't made that commitment, yet. > > > > it almost seemed like Red Hat didn't want my business and yes we > > bought full versions with support. > > > > just one persons experience, I appreciate everything Red Hat does to > > support linux, I probably would not be using Linux today if it were > > not for the efforts of Red Hat years ago, but since RH 10 it seems > > they don't want my business anymore. > > I don't believe there ever was a Red Hat 10, right? I was wondering if > CentOS wouldn't be a more logical OS to switch to when coming from Red > Hat? Or are you getting SuSE with support? I actually kind of > understand that a company might not want everybody's business. It > might just make a whole lot more sense (business-wise) to concentrate > on particular target audiences, although I have no idea if that was > the case here. > > I do know that I have some investments in RPM and for that reason > won't be switching to a DEB-based distro like Ubuntu for our servers > any time soon. But it's a nice distro for the desktop and I use it > quite frequently myself. But hey, that's nice thing about having a lot > of distro's, right? > > Nils Breunese. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > - end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named From rowens at ptd.net Thu Feb 5 01:12:51 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:12:51 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <1233788245.12452.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <498A2227.7040500@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090205011251.GA12051@junker.owens.net> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 01:42:02PM -1000, R. Scott Belford wrote: > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Les Mikesell > > > Did I mention that virus/spam filtering were > > included options as well? > > Les, > > I notice that SME server has a backup utility. Are you using this, > are you still using BackupPC, and do you consider the SME backup > utility to be on par with BackupPC? > I very briefly looked at the backup utility built in to SME Server. It's pretty basic compared to BackupPC. It's nice that it's included, though, because it seems to be relatively painless to configure. -Rob From lesmikesell at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 01:39:29 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 19:39:29 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <1233788245.12452.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <498A2227.7040500@gmail.com> Message-ID: <498A4351.1060803@gmail.com> R. Scott Belford wrote: > On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Les Mikesell > >> Did I mention that virus/spam filtering were >> included options as well? > > Les, > > I notice that SME server has a backup utility. Are you using this, > are you still using BackupPC, and do you consider the SME backup > utility to be on par with BackupPC? Backuppc deals with multiple machines so that's what I normally use. The SME server backup is OK, especially if you have an isolated machine with a tape drive or you want a backup that you can restore into the next update of the SME OS. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From moon at smbis.com Thu Feb 5 03:16:20 2009 From: moon at smbis.com (Moon) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 22:16:20 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> Message-ID: <1233803780.6304.52.camel@mws.localdomain> I did some research on the Compaq D51 early on last month and found that the problem is x.org based. There is a bug in the i810 support, which has been reported and acknowledged, just not fixed as yet that I know. I would check the x.org site again though, they may have fixed it by now. You know that you can use a default vesa driver setting and get them working, just have to deal with limited tweaking on the screen resolution. I think I also ran into a problem with getting a blank screen when logging out of the thin client using the vesa driver. On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 15:58 -0500, John Baillie wrote: > Hello, > > We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 > 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. > This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus years. > > I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the lab > terminals with mixed results. > We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. > The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S > We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few > months back. > I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older > hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular > distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some > manual adjustments to the display properties. > I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I > should make changes. > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us Thu Feb 5 13:19:58 2009 From: simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us (Doug Simpson) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 07:19:58 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> Message-ID: <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Which leads me back to my original thing with K12LTSP. Their early documentation stated that it was designed so that entities could take advantage of their older hardware and not have to upgrade all the "computers" to get the latest software. I took this to mean just that. I can use my older hardware, and just upgrade the "server" and let 'er fly. That has not been the case, however. . . I had some terminals that worked GREAT under FC3 (with a bit if tweaking in the configs) and one of them was a 486-DX40 with 24MB of RAM. It did everything the grandyounguns wanted to do. Next version, I could no longer get that one to work. I do realize that a 486 is archaic and it wouldn't really hurt my feelings to not use it, but from the get-go, the system was designed to be able to use older hardware and not upgrade every time you turn around. With each new distro, it seems to be getting farther and farther away from that model. JMHO - YMMV Doug Doug Simpson Technology Specialist De Queen Public Schools De Queen, AR simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" >>> John Baillie 2/4/2009 2:58 PM >>> Hello, We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus years. I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the lab terminals with mixed results. We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few months back. I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some manual adjustments to the display properties. I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I should make changes. John _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 15:41:06 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:41:06 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: It is interesting you say this Doug, as I now am in a similar situation. My thin clients are all Pentium I with an S3trio64 onboard video card. They work well under K12LTSP-EL but we were hitting a roadblock with sound, openoffice 3, and printing. I utilized the very-cool live USB version of K12Linux and it ends up that none of them will work using that system. I understand that it is not a specific thing that was done by K12Linux, but rather something to do with the drivers that the newer version of X.org ships with that is used by K12linux. However, the end result is the same thing. I need to scrap all my thin clients. I've start to look for newer thin clients, but since everything we are doing is based on donations (even some of our admin staff are volunteer) I'm having a hard time finding newer machines that work with K12Linux. I don't know if there is a happy medium between the newer system and the older hardware. Joseph On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Doug Simpson wrote: > Which leads me back to my original thing with K12LTSP. > > Their early documentation stated that it was designed so that entities could take advantage of their older hardware and not have to upgrade all the "computers" to get the latest software. I took this to mean just that. I can use my older hardware, and just upgrade the "server" and let 'er fly. That has not been the case, however. . . > > I had some terminals that worked GREAT under FC3 (with a bit if tweaking in the configs) and one of them was a 486-DX40 with 24MB of RAM. It did everything the grandyounguns wanted to do. > > Next version, I could no longer get that one to work. > > I do realize that a 486 is archaic and it wouldn't really hurt my feelings to not use it, but from the get-go, the system was designed to be able to use older hardware and not upgrade every time you turn around. With each new distro, it seems to be getting farther and farther away from that model. > > JMHO - YMMV > > Doug > > Doug Simpson > Technology Specialist > De Queen Public Schools > De Queen, AR > simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us > "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" > > >>>> John Baillie 2/4/2009 2:58 PM >>> > Hello, > > We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 > 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. > This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus years. > > I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the lab > terminals with mixed results. > We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. > The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S > We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few > months back. > I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older > hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular > distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some > manual adjustments to the display properties. > I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I > should make changes. > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From scott at hosef.org Thu Feb 5 19:27:00 2009 From: scott at hosef.org (R. Scott Belford) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:27:00 -1000 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: In 2007 we ported the computer lab at an elementary school that had helped give birth to Fedora. It had been running thin clients since the earliest of days. I migrated them from the K12LTSP to Edubuntu. At the time I did not fully appreciate the difference between LTSP 4 and LTSP 5 or just how nicely tweaked the lts.conf file had been in the K12LTSP releases. The migration was a debacle. Upgrades from Edubuntu 7.04 to 7.10 and then to 8.04 provided absolutely *no* improvement in spite of very heavy activity on the edubuntu mailing list. My infamous post was entitled "edubuntu, a released debacle and a practice in failure." None of the "new" LTSP-based releases from Fedora or Edubuntu work on the older computer so many of us are either limited to or already have in place. Do not upgrade unless you have money for newer equipment. I have learned that the K12LTSP el, or Skolelinux, or DRBL, are my only current alternatives for upgrading my existing labs. I cannot even boot the new Fedora releases, and I've downloaded all 8 revisions through beta 4, on most of the servers that are donated to us because they don't boot from DVD, and I don't have CD 1 for a "linux askmethod" http install from a local server with the USB keychain mounted to /var/www/k12ltsp as I do with the K12LTSPel releases. I will get some new CDs today to see if the Fedoara netinstall disk will work for this purpose. However, 90% of the newcomers will not have this skill or tenacity, and they may not have usb-booting servers with DVD drives. This is not to disparage the amazing progress with Thin Clients via LTSP5. When you realize that the image the clients mount is a compressed image, and that you can "virtually" offer many desktop image profiles to various client configurations, you can smell and taste the future. This is the play that Sun is making with VirtualBox and that Novell is making with its thin-client deployment. You virtualize the images at the server, and then provide multiple, manageable images over the network. It's great with new hardware, but I am interested in helping those without new hardware. So, I use DRBL, Skolelinux, and the K12LTSP el. For all of the City and County parks where HOSEF installed computer labs and free wifi, I am ripping the awful Edubuntu footprint and replacing it with the K12LTSP el. For day to day client deployments, I find that DRBL is outstanding because of its ability to work with 'fat' clients. I have an Asus eeePC running Debian and DRBL, and I use it to pxe boot my Acer Aspire, my Sylvania G book, and other "new" chipsets. This provides the happy medium with new and old for me. As far as what happened to the lab that helped give rise to Fedora, it no longer runs thin clients. It runs edubuntu at the desktop (they had budget for new machines), and the clients use a CentOS box running Samba, LDAP, and NFS for their roaming profile. --scott On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 5:41 AM, Joseph Bishay wrote: > It is interesting you say this Doug, as I now am in a similar > situation. My thin clients are all Pentium I with an S3trio64 onboard > video card. They work well under K12LTSP-EL but we were hitting a > roadblock with sound, openoffice 3, and printing. > > I utilized the very-cool live USB version of K12Linux and it ends up > that none of them will work using that system. I understand that it is > not a specific thing that was done by K12Linux, but rather something > to do with the drivers that the newer version of X.org ships with that > is used by K12linux. However, the end result is the same thing. I > need to scrap all my thin clients. I've start to look for newer thin > clients, but since everything we are doing is based on donations (even > some of our admin staff are volunteer) I'm having a hard time finding > newer machines that work with K12Linux. > > I don't know if there is a happy medium between the newer system and > the older hardware. > > Joseph > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Doug Simpson > wrote: >> Which leads me back to my original thing with K12LTSP. >> >> Their early documentation stated that it was designed so that entities could take advantage of their older hardware and not have to upgrade all the "computers" to get the latest software. I took this to mean just that. I can use my older hardware, and just upgrade the "server" and let 'er fly. That has not been the case, however. . . >> >> I had some terminals that worked GREAT under FC3 (with a bit if tweaking in the configs) and one of them was a 486-DX40 with 24MB of RAM. It did everything the grandyounguns wanted to do. >> >> Next version, I could no longer get that one to work. >> >> I do realize that a 486 is archaic and it wouldn't really hurt my feelings to not use it, but from the get-go, the system was designed to be able to use older hardware and not upgrade every time you turn around. With each new distro, it seems to be getting farther and farther away from that model. >> >> JMHO - YMMV >> >> Doug >> >> Doug Simpson >> Technology Specialist >> De Queen Public Schools >> De Queen, AR >> simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us >> "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" >> >> >>>>> John Baillie 2/4/2009 2:58 PM >>> >> Hello, >> >> We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 >> 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. >> This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus years. >> >> I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the lab >> terminals with mixed results. >> We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. >> The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S >> We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few >> months back. >> I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older >> hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular >> distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some >> manual adjustments to the display properties. >> I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I >> should make changes. >> >> John >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From SteveSings at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 01:00:07 2009 From: SteveSings at gmail.com (Stephen Crampton) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 20:00:07 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] ssh into client in K12Linux Message-ID: Does anyone know how I can ssh into a thin client from K12Linux? So far, I tried installing openssh in the chroot, creating keys in and out of the chroot, and transferring public keys in and out of the chroot to authorized_keys2 (linked to authorized_keys). All files were under /root/.ssh. When I tried to run sshd in the chroot, it complained, so I copied and renamed the keys and placed them under /etc/ssh (chroot). Now sshd starts in the chroot without complaint. I wrote a one-line script to start sshd and put it under /usr/bin and modified lts.conf to use it as a start-up script for all clients. I did not mess with the passwd file or any startup scripts as described in the LTSP documentation for LTSP 4, because I don't know how different they may be in K12Linux. When I try to ssh from the server to a client, I get no response: no denial or error message or anything. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com Fri Feb 6 10:05:43 2009 From: chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com (Chris Norman) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:05:43 -0000 Subject: [K12OSN] K12 and Orca Message-ID: Hi All, I am visually impared, and thinking of trying the K12 server, but I am wondering, do assistive technologies work over the network? Is speech forwarded via pulseaudio? Cheers, Take care, Chris Norman Email and MSN: chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com Skype and IChat: chris.norman7 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rbachelier at aesis-conseil.com Fri Feb 6 16:10:27 2009 From: rbachelier at aesis-conseil.com (Richard Bachelier) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:10:27 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin client + CDROM device Message-ID: <200902061710.27429.rbachelier@aesis-conseil.com> Hi, can you explain me how to use the cdrom of the thin client ? usb key automount in /media/userhome/ but not the cdrom conf : Fedora 10 ltsp-server 5.1.44 Have a nice week-end Best regards Richard From Steven at SimplyCircus.com Fri Feb 6 17:02:31 2009 From: Steven at SimplyCircus.com (Steven Santos) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:02:31 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: I wonder if it would be possible to use an EL5 server to boot the old clients, then hand off to a FC machine as the app server. It might allow you to keep booting the old machines, and have the new server do all the heavy lifting. --- Steven Santos Director, Simply Circus, Inc. Email: Steven at SimplyCircus.com Mail: 14 Pierrepont Road Newton, MA 02462 Phone: 617-527-0667 Web: www.SimplyCircus.com > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of Doug Simpson > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:20 AM > To: K12OSN > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem > > Which leads me back to my original thing with K12LTSP. > > Their early documentation stated that it was designed so that entities > could take advantage of their older hardware and not have to upgrade > all the "computers" to get the latest software. I took this to mean > just that. I can use my older hardware, and just upgrade the "server" > and let 'er fly. That has not been the case, however. . . > > I had some terminals that worked GREAT under FC3 (with a bit if > tweaking in the configs) and one of them was a 486-DX40 with 24MB of > RAM. It did everything the grandyounguns wanted to do. > > Next version, I could no longer get that one to work. > > I do realize that a 486 is archaic and it wouldn't really hurt my > feelings to not use it, but from the get-go, the system was designed to > be able to use older hardware and not upgrade every time you turn > around. With each new distro, it seems to be getting farther and > farther away from that model. > > JMHO - YMMV > > Doug > > Doug Simpson > Technology Specialist > De Queen Public Schools > De Queen, AR > simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us > "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" > > > >>> John Baillie 2/4/2009 2:58 PM >>> > Hello, > > We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 > 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. > This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus > years. > > I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the > lab > terminals with mixed results. > We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. > The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S > We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few > months back. > I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older > hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular > distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some > manual adjustments to the display properties. > I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I > should make changes. > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From rowens at ptd.net Fri Feb 6 17:42:07 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:42:07 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: <20090206174207.GA23554@junker.owens.net> You can actually install LTSP 4.2 and 5 on the same server. Here are my notes on how to do it on Debian: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss at lists.sourceforge.net/msg33415.html There may be some complications with sound. I didn't fully test sound, but I have a feeling you'll have to choose between sound on version 4.2, or sound on version 5. -Rob On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 12:02:31PM -0500, Steven Santos wrote: > I wonder if it would be possible to use an EL5 server to boot the old > clients, then hand off to a FC machine as the app server. It might allow > you to keep booting the old machines, and have the new server do all the > heavy lifting. > > --- > Steven Santos > Director, Simply Circus, Inc. > Email: Steven at SimplyCircus.com > Mail: 14 Pierrepont Road > Newton, MA 02462 > Phone: 617-527-0667 > Web: www.SimplyCircus.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On > > Behalf Of Doug Simpson > > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:20 AM > > To: K12OSN > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem > > > > Which leads me back to my original thing with K12LTSP. > > > > Their early documentation stated that it was designed so that entities > > could take advantage of their older hardware and not have to upgrade > > all the "computers" to get the latest software. I took this to mean > > just that. I can use my older hardware, and just upgrade the "server" > > and let 'er fly. That has not been the case, however. . . > > > > I had some terminals that worked GREAT under FC3 (with a bit if > > tweaking in the configs) and one of them was a 486-DX40 with 24MB of > > RAM. It did everything the grandyounguns wanted to do. > > > > Next version, I could no longer get that one to work. > > > > I do realize that a 486 is archaic and it wouldn't really hurt my > > feelings to not use it, but from the get-go, the system was designed to > > be able to use older hardware and not upgrade every time you turn > > around. With each new distro, it seems to be getting farther and > > farther away from that model. > > > > JMHO - YMMV > > > > Doug > > > > Doug Simpson > > Technology Specialist > > De Queen Public Schools > > De Queen, AR > > simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us > > "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" > > > > > > >>> John Baillie 2/4/2009 2:58 PM >>> > > Hello, > > > > We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 > > 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. > > This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus > > years. > > > > I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the > > lab > > terminals with mixed results. > > We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. > > The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S > > We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few > > months back. > > I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older > > hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular > > distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some > > manual adjustments to the display properties. > > I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I > > should make changes. > > > > John > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From robark at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 17:42:19 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 09:42:19 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Steven Santos wrote: > I wonder if it would be possible to use an EL5 server to boot the old > clients, then hand off to a FC machine as the app server. It might allow > you to keep booting the old machines, and have the new server do all the > heavy lifting. I doubt it. You would probably lose sound, local devices, local apps and ldm login. > > --- > Steven Santos > Director, Simply Circus, Inc. > Email: Steven at SimplyCircus.com > Mail: 14 Pierrepont Road > Newton, MA 02462 > Phone: 617-527-0667 > Web: www.SimplyCircus.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On >> Behalf Of Doug Simpson >> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:20 AM >> To: K12OSN >> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem >> >> Which leads me back to my original thing with K12LTSP. >> >> Their early documentation stated that it was designed so that entities >> could take advantage of their older hardware and not have to upgrade >> all the "computers" to get the latest software. I took this to mean >> just that. I can use my older hardware, and just upgrade the "server" >> and let 'er fly. That has not been the case, however. . . >> >> I had some terminals that worked GREAT under FC3 (with a bit if >> tweaking in the configs) and one of them was a 486-DX40 with 24MB of >> RAM. It did everything the grandyounguns wanted to do. >> >> Next version, I could no longer get that one to work. >> >> I do realize that a 486 is archaic and it wouldn't really hurt my >> feelings to not use it, but from the get-go, the system was designed to >> be able to use older hardware and not upgrade every time you turn >> around. With each new distro, it seems to be getting farther and >> farther away from that model. >> >> JMHO - YMMV >> >> Doug >> >> Doug Simpson >> Technology Specialist >> De Queen Public Schools >> De Queen, AR >> simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us >> "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" >> >> >> >>> John Baillie 2/4/2009 2:58 PM >>> >> Hello, >> >> We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 >> 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. >> This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus >> years. >> >> I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the >> lab >> terminals with mixed results. >> We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not display. >> The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S >> We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few >> months back. >> I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older >> hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular >> distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some >> manual adjustments to the display properties. >> I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious where I >> should make changes. >> >> John >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ From Steven at SimplyCircus.com Fri Feb 6 22:10:26 2009 From: Steven at SimplyCircus.com (Steven Santos) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 17:10:26 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem In-Reply-To: References: <498A0163.70308@stmarys-school.org> <498A931D.550C.0078.0@leopards.k12.ar.us> Message-ID: For these old clients, I doubt if they would do local apps. If sound currently works on them, perhaps there is some hack that could be done to bridge sound via the EL server? --- Steven Santos Director, Simply Circus, Inc. Email: Steven at SimplyCircus.com Mail: 14 Pierrepont Road Newton, MA 02462 Phone: 617-527-0667 Web: www.SimplyCircus.com > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of Robert Arkiletian > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 12:42 PM > To: Support list for open source software in schools. > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Steven Santos > wrote: > > I wonder if it would be possible to use an EL5 server to boot the old > > clients, then hand off to a FC machine as the app server. It might > allow > > you to keep booting the old machines, and have the new server do all > the > > heavy lifting. > > I doubt it. You would probably lose sound, local devices, local apps > and ldm login. > > > > > > --- > > Steven Santos > > Director, Simply Circus, Inc. > > Email: Steven at SimplyCircus.com > > Mail: 14 Pierrepont Road > > Newton, MA 02462 > > Phone: 617-527-0667 > > Web: www.SimplyCircus.com > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] > On > >> Behalf Of Doug Simpson > >> Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:20 AM > >> To: K12OSN > >> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem > >> > >> Which leads me back to my original thing with K12LTSP. > >> > >> Their early documentation stated that it was designed so that > entities > >> could take advantage of their older hardware and not have to upgrade > >> all the "computers" to get the latest software. I took this to mean > >> just that. I can use my older hardware, and just upgrade the > "server" > >> and let 'er fly. That has not been the case, however. . . > >> > >> I had some terminals that worked GREAT under FC3 (with a bit if > >> tweaking in the configs) and one of them was a 486-DX40 with 24MB of > >> RAM. It did everything the grandyounguns wanted to do. > >> > >> Next version, I could no longer get that one to work. > >> > >> I do realize that a 486 is archaic and it wouldn't really hurt my > >> feelings to not use it, but from the get-go, the system was designed > to > >> be able to use older hardware and not upgrade every time you turn > >> around. With each new distro, it seems to be getting farther and > >> farther away from that model. > >> > >> JMHO - YMMV > >> > >> Doug > >> > >> Doug Simpson > >> Technology Specialist > >> De Queen Public Schools > >> De Queen, AR > >> simpsond at leopards.k12.ar.us > >> "A Dollar Saved is a Dollar Earned" > >> > >> > >> >>> John Baillie 2/4/2009 2:58 PM >>> > >> Hello, > >> > >> We are still running K12LTSP release 4.2.1EL-1 > >> 2 Servers with about 100 concurrent users. > >> This setup has served us well and has been hands off for three plus > >> years. > >> > >> I plugged in the k12 live usb (pretty slick) and booted a few of the > >> lab > >> terminals with mixed results. > >> We have a mixture of CRTs and LCDs and some of them will not > display. > >> The clients are all Compaq DS51 and DS5S > >> We ran into the same problem when we demoed the latest ubuntu a few > >> months back. > >> I'm guessing that the newer x servers don't work well with the older > >> hardware we have and it has nothing to do with a particular > >> distribution. It's looking like we will have to dig in and make some > >> manual adjustments to the display properties. > >> I'm looking around /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11 but it is not obvious > where I > >> should make changes. > >> > >> John > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> K12OSN mailing list > >> K12OSN at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > >> For more info see > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> K12OSN mailing list > >> K12OSN at redhat.com > >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > >> For more info see > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > Fl_TeacherTool http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/Fl_TeacherTool/ > C++ GUI tutorial http://www3.telus.net/public/robark/ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Sat Feb 7 16:16:06 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 11:16:06 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot crashes computer Message-ID: Hello, I hope everyone is doing well today. I thought I would post this here in case anyone has a solution or for future reference. We are looking to upgrade our clients and a couple of machines we obtained are Acer Acerpower SV machines (http://www.acersupport.com/desktop/html/psv_specs.html) Pentium 4 machined with 256 MB RAM. It ends up that trying to use them as thin clients causes the computer to continually reboot during the network loading part. The sequence is: 1. Computer posts 2. Netword card kicks in, looking for DHCP (I've used 2 different boot disks to try this) 3. Once you start to see the row of dots on the screen after it finds the LTSP server, it will stop at some point and the computer will reboot. 4. Go back to step 1 This happens with it plugged into both a K12LTSP-EL LTSP server and a K12Linux Fedora 10 LTSP Server. Not sure if there is a solution -- I have tried it with two different machines and they both do the same thing. Thanks, Joseph From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sat Feb 7 20:54:40 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 14:54:40 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot crashes computer Message-ID: <1234040080.18193.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Joseph, Make sure these machines are flashed with the latest bios. Boot one up there. The bios version you should be seeing is,BIOS R01A2 . I remember reading moons ago were these had probs with the 'factory bios' with irq sharing or something. Once you have bios updated. go into bios and change back and forth- there is an option INT18 & INT19 with the pxe boot part. The intel integrated nic should boot no prob.Make sure at the first part of pxe boot you are seeing intel pxe2.0 or 2.1 . If you are not seeing this version number the machine will not boot. Are you using the universal boot floppy to boot these machines by chance? This should work as well. If for some reason you still can not get these to boot,don't waist a bunch of time and frustration. Go to geeks.com and buy you some realtek 8139 pci nics for $2.50 a piece to get up and going . These nics will work in any machine known to man. Let us know how you come out on this. Take Care, Barry Cisna From scott at hosef.org Sat Feb 7 22:27:34 2009 From: scott at hosef.org (R. Scott Belford) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:27:34 -1000 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot crashes computer In-Reply-To: <1234040080.18193.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234040080.18193.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Also, If you can boot them to memtest, try that, too. I have had the inexplicable and perplexing pxe-reboot-loop from machines with bad RAM. --scott On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Barry R Cisna wrote: > Joseph, > > Make sure these machines are flashed with the latest bios. Boot one up > there. The bios version you should be seeing is,BIOS R01A2 . > I remember reading moons ago were these had probs with the 'factory > bios' with irq sharing or something. > Once you have bios updated. go into bios and change back and forth- > there is an option INT18 & INT19 with the pxe boot part. The intel > integrated nic should boot no prob.Make sure at the first part of pxe > boot you are seeing intel pxe2.0 or 2.1 . If you are not seeing this > version number the machine will not boot. > Are you using the universal boot floppy to boot these machines by > chance? This should work as well. > If for some reason you still can not get these to boot,don't waist a > bunch of time and frustration. Go to geeks.com and buy you some realtek > 8139 pci nics for $2.50 a piece to get up and going . These nics will > work in any machine known to man. > Let us know how you come out on this. > > Take Care, > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Feb 8 13:24:41 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 07:24:41 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin client + CDROM device Message-ID: <1234099481.23938.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Richard, Here is a link on how to do cd-rom on TC's, to do cd-rom burning. I tried this many moons ago and it does work, but not very 'transparent' by a long shot. I think you are merely wanting to be able to run the cd-rom drive as a local device though? It seems it shouldn't be that difficult but I have never been able to make this happen myself. I bet someone here lots smarter than me maybe has some ideas on this. I am not sure what the status is on this matter in regards to ltsp 5.0? http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LocalCDWriting Take Care, Barry Cisna From ssh at tranquility.net Mon Feb 9 01:55:23 2009 From: ssh at tranquility.net (Scott S.) Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:55:23 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] ssh into client in K12Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <498F8D0B.60502@tranquility.net> Stephen Crampton wrote: > Does anyone know how I can ssh into a thin client from K12Linux? Are you wanting to see processes in the thin client that you cannot see on the server? Unless you have fat clients, pretty much everything the user is doing is taking place on the server. I ssh into the server, and can then su - to anybody. From mel at melwade.com Mon Feb 9 02:35:47 2009 From: mel at melwade.com (Mel Wade) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:35:47 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] ssh into client in K12Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43080f460902081835m7bd7b29fp719cf80a52d8d8ce@mail.gmail.com> Hmmm. On K12LTSP 5EL I just us Putty and go right in... 2009/2/5 Stephen Crampton > Does anyone know how I can ssh into a thin client from K12Linux? > > So far, I tried installing openssh in the chroot, creating keys in and out > of the chroot, and transferring public keys in and out of the chroot to > authorized_keys2 (linked to authorized_keys). All files were under > /root/.ssh. > > When I tried to run sshd in the chroot, it complained, so I copied and > renamed the keys and placed them under /etc/ssh (chroot). Now sshd starts > in the chroot without complaint. > > I wrote a one-line script to start sshd and put it under /usr/bin and > modified lts.conf to use it as a start-up script for all clients. > > I did not mess with the passwd file or any startup scripts as described in > the LTSP documentation for LTSP 4, because I don't know how different they > may be in K12Linux. > > When I try to ssh from the server to a client, I get no response: no denial > or error message or anything. > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- Mel Wade "A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams http://www.melwade.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kannan.linuxadmin at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 03:40:18 2009 From: kannan.linuxadmin at gmail.com (Kannan Krishnamurthy) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:10:18 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hI, This is kannan. Try Zimbra mail server. Good luck.... Regards, A.K. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, > > I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a > pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's > connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. > I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should > install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will > have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most > of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be > moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well > as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). > > The webmail packages I have seen online are: > > 1) Squirrelmail (http://www.squirrelmail.org/) > 2) Horde IMP (http://www.horde.org/imp/) > 3) Roundcube (http://roundcube.net/) > 4) Neomail (http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/) > 5) Hastymail (http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/) > 6) V-webmail (http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/) > > Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program > allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via > the smartphone's IMAP... > > Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? > > Thank you > Joseph > > P.S. One last thing I'm thinking about is using the built-in email > client that OpenGoo has (http://www.opengoo.org/) but I'm not sure if > it's suppose to be ready for prime-time yet. > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DLWillson at TheGeek.NU Mon Feb 9 03:46:49 2009 From: DLWillson at TheGeek.NU (David L. Willson) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:46:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16688633.25381234151209876.JavaMail.root@zimbra.thegeek.nu> Not if all he cares about is simplicity. For that, you want squirrel. That's simple, simple, simple. OpenWebmail is another nice one, as is IMP. If you want cool, full featured, head-turning, more secure than most, scalable, and reasonably easy to set up, go with Zimbra. David L. Willson Network Engineer MCT, MCSE, Linux+ tel://720.333.LANS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kannan Krishnamurthy" To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2009 8:40:18 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain Subject: Re: [K12OSN] OT - webmail recommendations? hI, This is kannan. Try Zimbra mail server. Good luck.... Regards, A.K. On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Joseph Bishay < joseph.bishay at gmail.com > wrote: Hello People-who's-opinion-I-value-far-more-than-random-Google-results, I'm trying to set up an email server on a spare box I have. It is a pentium 4 so it should do the job. I've got CentOS 5.2 on it and it's connected to a big enough pipe to be able to handle our email needs. I'm just not sure which of the following webmail applications I should install on it. The requirements are that maybe only 10-15 people will have email accounts, and the volume of email will not be high for most of them. My priority is ease of use -- these users are going to be moving from hotmail/gmail to a domain-specific email address (as well as ease of use for setup and administration for myself). The webmail packages I have seen online are: 1) Squirrelmail ( http://www.squirrelmail.org/ ) 2) Horde IMP ( http://www.horde.org/imp/ ) 3) Roundcube ( http://roundcube.net/ ) 4) Neomail ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/neomail/ ) 5) Hastymail ( http://hastymail.sourceforge.net/ ) 6) V-webmail ( http://v-webmail.sourceforge.net/ ) Now it would be nice (but not remotely crucial) if the webmail program allowed access via a smartphone/PDA. I suppose I could just do it via the smartphone's IMAP... Anyone have any good/bad experiences with any of the above? Thank you Joseph P.S. One last thing I'm thinking about is using the built-in email client that OpenGoo has ( http://www.opengoo.org/ ) but I'm not sure if it's suppose to be ready for prime-time yet. _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see < http://www.k12os.org > _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From petert at dcn.infos.ru Mon Feb 9 07:54:44 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:54:44 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs Message-ID: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> Hello, I have installed K12LTSP 5-EL/32 bit onto a server in my network. It works fine with relatively modern client PCs. However, booting 12-year old HP Vectra PCs (Pentium-200 CPU, 96 MB RAM) hangs with the words "Freeing ram used by initramfs". The system is not really frozen, but nothing happens. I have a few such PCs, and all of them exhibit such behavior. I have observed some NFS traffic between the server and the client before it hangs. Does anyone have any suggestions what can be wrong with the clients? With best regards, P. Trifonov From rowens at ptd.net Mon Feb 9 15:20:34 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:20:34 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> Message-ID: <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> I had a similar problem and found that some clients would not boot with an etherboot cd, but they would boot with a gPXE cd. Try that. You can get it from www.rom-o-matic.net. When it comes to the driver selection part, choose gpxe from the drop-down list. -Rob On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 10:54:44AM +0300, Peter Trifonov wrote: > Hello, > > I have installed K12LTSP 5-EL/32 bit onto a server in my network. It works > fine with relatively modern client PCs. > However, booting 12-year old HP Vectra PCs (Pentium-200 CPU, 96 MB RAM) > hangs with the words "Freeing ram used by initramfs". > The system is not really frozen, but nothing happens. I have a few such > PCs, and all of them exhibit such behavior. I have observed some NFS traffic > between the server and the client before it hangs. > > Does anyone have any suggestions what can be wrong with the clients? > > > With best regards, > P. Trifonov > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From petert at dcn.infos.ru Mon Feb 9 16:07:53 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:07:53 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> Message-ID: <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> Rob, thanks a lot for the suggestion. I have tried gPXE, but with the same result. The problem arises AFTER Linux kernel is downloaded from the server and started. The kernel says: ... Creating new ramdisk to hold our new rootfs Mounting root filesystem: ... from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [Some NFS traffic is observed at the server at this moment] Setting up the new root ramdisk area Doing the switchroot SwitchRoot v0.1 - Copyright 2005 Linux based systems design Freeing ram used by initramfs After this the system stops doing anything. With best regards, P. Trifonov > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of Rob Owens > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 6:21 PM > To: Support list for open source software in schools. > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs > > I had a similar problem and found that some clients would not boot with > an etherboot cd, but they would boot with a gPXE cd. Try that. You > can get it from www.rom-o-matic.net. When it comes to the driver > selection part, choose gpxe from the drop-down list. > > -Rob > > On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 10:54:44AM +0300, Peter Trifonov wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have installed K12LTSP 5-EL/32 bit onto a server in my network. It > works > > fine with relatively modern client PCs. > > However, booting 12-year old HP Vectra PCs (Pentium-200 CPU, 96 MB > RAM) > > hangs with the words "Freeing ram used by initramfs". > > The system is not really frozen, but nothing happens. I have a few > such > > PCs, and all of them exhibit such behavior. I have observed some NFS > traffic > > between the server and the client before it hangs. > > > > Does anyone have any suggestions what can be wrong with the clients? From ericbrow at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 16:18:27 2009 From: ericbrow at gmail.com (Eric Brown) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:18:27 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> Message-ID: IMHO, you're probably not going to be happy with the performance you get with 200MHz processors and 96mb of ram. My Spidey senses tell me that you may not have enough RAM (although technically LTSP can work with even less that this on a client), or you may have put 128MB in a machine that can only see 96MB. I think you'll be happier if you can find some 400MHz or higher machines that have 128MB ram that someone's throwing out. Good luck. Eric On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 10:07 AM, Peter Trifonov wrote: > Rob, thanks a lot for the suggestion. I have tried gPXE, but with the same > result. > The problem arises AFTER Linux kernel is downloaded from the server and > started. > The kernel says: > > ... > Creating new ramdisk to hold our new rootfs > Mounting root filesystem: ... from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [Some NFS traffic is > observed at the server at this moment] > Setting up the new root ramdisk area > Doing the switchroot > SwitchRoot v0.1 - Copyright 2005 Linux based systems design > Freeing ram used by initramfs > > > After this the system stops doing anything. > > > With best regards, > P. Trifonov > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On >> Behalf Of Rob Owens >> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 6:21 PM >> To: Support list for open source software in schools. >> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs >> >> I had a similar problem and found that some clients would not boot with >> an etherboot cd, but they would boot with a gPXE cd. Try that. You >> can get it from www.rom-o-matic.net. When it comes to the driver >> selection part, choose gpxe from the drop-down list. >> >> -Rob >> >> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 10:54:44AM +0300, Peter Trifonov wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > I have installed K12LTSP 5-EL/32 bit onto a server in my network. It >> works >> > fine with relatively modern client PCs. >> > However, booting 12-year old HP Vectra PCs (Pentium-200 CPU, 96 MB >> RAM) >> > hangs with the words "Freeing ram used by initramfs". >> > The system is not really frozen, but nothing happens. I have a few >> such >> > PCs, and all of them exhibit such behavior. I have observed some NFS >> traffic >> > between the server and the client before it hangs. >> > >> > Does anyone have any suggestions what can be wrong with the clients? > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From petert at dcn.infos.ru Mon Feb 9 16:27:02 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:27:02 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> Message-ID: <002c01c98ad3$3d39f1f0$b7add5d0$@infos.ru> In fact, I need just to start rdesktop. I have used these PCs for some time with FreeBSD, and the performance was quite satisfactory. Now I am trying to switch to linux to get better USB support, but it does not work at all :-( With best regards, P. Trifonov > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of Eric Brown > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:18 PM > To: Support list for open source software in schools. > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs > > IMHO, you're probably not going to be happy with the performance you > get with 200MHz processors and 96mb of ram. My Spidey senses tell me > that you may not have enough RAM (although technically LTSP can work > with even less that this on a client), or you may have put 128MB in a > machine that can only see 96MB. > > I think you'll be happier if you can find some 400MHz or higher > machines that have 128MB ram that someone's throwing out. > > Good luck. > Eric > > From jbaillie at stmarys-school.org Mon Feb 9 16:33:11 2009 From: jbaillie at stmarys-school.org (John Baillie) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:33:11 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12Linux F10 Display problem Message-ID: <49905AC7.20604@stmarys-school.org> OK I set the default XSERVER to be XSERVER = vesa in the lts.conf and all the terminals now have a good log-in screen Hurdle one crossed... From lists at acurrus.com Mon Feb 9 19:52:05 2009 From: lists at acurrus.com (Erick Tyack) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:52:05 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Help Spread LTSP/K12LTSP Awareness Message-ID: <1234209125.13986.70.camel@ett61> Hello, Help spread awareness of LTSP and K12LTSP. LTSP should take advantage of Social Media/Networking to push LTSP awareness to as many people as possible. To get the ball rolling on Facebook, I created a group "Linux Terminal Server Project" and I encourage you to join. Honestly, Social Networking sites are new to me, so anyone familiar with Facebook and how we can utilize it to promote LTSP, please share suggestions. At a minimum, I know we can promote events and such, so let's get on with it! Link: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=52447981219 A while ago Alex Colcernian created a LTSP group on LinkedIn.com. There are now more than 70 members, please consider this group also. LinkedIn is targeted at a much different audience -- professionals. Link: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1412517 Thank you for your time. Regards, -- Erick S. Tyack DisklessWorkstations.com ph: 248.302.1855 360 E Maple Road fax: 248.577.0201 Suite C Troy, Michigan 48083 emailto: etyack at DisklessWorkstations.com The official source of LTSP approved hardware! From scott at hosef.org Mon Feb 9 19:56:53 2009 From: scott at hosef.org (R. Scott Belford) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 09:56:53 -1000 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <002c01c98ad3$3d39f1f0$b7add5d0$@infos.ru> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> <002c01c98ad3$3d39f1f0$b7add5d0$@infos.ru> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 6:27 AM, Peter Trifonov wrote: > In fact, I need just to start rdesktop. > I have used these PCs for some time with FreeBSD, and > the performance was quite satisfactory. Now I am trying to switch to linux > to get better USB support, but it does not work at all :-( If using this as a thin client with K12LTSP5 el, then I believe you will want to enable NFS swap in the lts_conf file. I may be mistaken. If looking for USB support and the gnu/linux experience on these workstations, then Puppy Linux might be a good start for you. > > With best regards, > P. Trifonov --scott From brcisna at eazylivin.net Mon Feb 9 21:13:54 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:13:54 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs Message-ID: <1234214034.5927.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Peter, You did not mention if these machines have onboard nics,or added in nic cards & what brand they are? I would guess this old of machine has an add in nic card. Some of these old of machines with onboard nics are actually isa based nics. This may be your prob as well. Regardless. try finding someplace to grab either any model Intel pci,or better yet realtek 8139 pci card (can be bought for $2.50 ea.USD) and I bet your TC machines will boot alright. The realtek 8139 cards are the 'easiest' working nic cards i have run across.Way back we used these by the many that had the rom socket and burned rom chips to etherboot them this way. And I'm sure the performance will be plenty satisfactory for someone wanting to do web browsing with these machines. This is the specs we used when we first started into using k12lstp and they worked out plenty good. Take Care, Barry Cisna From microman at cmosnetworks.com Mon Feb 9 23:30:28 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:30:28 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <1234214034.5927.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234214034.5927.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4990BC94.2040608@cmosnetworks.com> Barry R Cisna wrote: > Peter, > > You did not mention if these machines have onboard nics,or added in nic > cards & what brand they are? I would guess this old of machine has an > add in nic card. Some of these old of machines with onboard nics are > actually isa based nics. This may be your prob as well. Regardless. try > finding someplace to grab either any model Intel pci,or better yet > realtek 8139 pci card (can be bought for $2.50 ea.USD) and I bet your TC > machines will boot alright. The realtek 8139 cards are the 'easiest' > working nic cards i have run across.Way back we used these by the many > that had the rom socket and burned rom chips to etherboot them this way. > > 3Com 3C905's of any vintage also work very well in EtherBoot mode. That's mostly what I use, along with one Realtek 8129. > And I'm sure the performance will be plenty satisfactory for someone > wanting to do web browsing with these machines. This is the specs we > used when we first started into using k12lstp and they worked out plenty > good. > I still have one Pentium-I MMX computer around, and it's a great thin client. I can play full-screen TuxType on it with no slowdowns. Same for full-screen video. Why? Because it's got a good video board (Matrox Millenium G400 AGP) and 100Mbps Full-Duplex network card (3Com 3C905 series). Both of these points are very important for performance. My fastest thin client is an AMD K6-2 running at 450MHz with 256MB DRAM. Otherwise, it's equipped the same as the Pentium I. Also works great. A third client runs an ATI Radeon 7500 AGP video board--not quite as fast as the Millenium, but still good enough. The Pentium I has a SoundBlaster 16 ISA video board. The K6-2/450 has an Ensoniq AudioPCI. Both work great. Unless you're running apps locally, you do not need a lot of CPU on your thin clients for K12LTSP 5EL. That's one reason I'm sticking with 5EL for a good, long time, at least on my production network. --TP From microman at cmosnetworks.com Tue Feb 10 00:14:42 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:14:42 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> Message-ID: <4990C6F2.3060604@cmosnetworks.com> I've seen this happen before, back when something was haywire with my client's NIC; it was one of those gradual failures. Swapping NIC's did the trick then. I've also (rarely) seen an NFS misconfig do it; this is rare because it's autoconfig'd during the K12LTSP setup. I'm assuming here that you've left /etc/dhcpd.conf (or /etc/dhcpd-k12ltsp.conf) at its stock config. Can you try this: boot a thick client Linux box, try mounting /opt/ltsp/i386 from the LTSP server, and copying everything under there to a test directory on the thick client? Also, do you have another kind of thin client to try out to see if it happens there, too? --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Peter Trifonov wrote: > Rob, thanks a lot for the suggestion. I have tried gPXE, but with the same > result. > The problem arises AFTER Linux kernel is downloaded from the server and > started. > The kernel says: > > ... > Creating new ramdisk to hold our new rootfs > Mounting root filesystem: ... from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [Some NFS traffic is > observed at the server at this moment] > Setting up the new root ramdisk area > Doing the switchroot > SwitchRoot v0.1 - Copyright 2005 Linux based systems design > Freeing ram used by initramfs > > > After this the system stops doing anything. > > > With best regards, > P. Trifonov > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On >> Behalf Of Rob Owens >> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 6:21 PM >> To: Support list for open source software in schools. >> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs >> >> I had a similar problem and found that some clients would not boot with >> an etherboot cd, but they would boot with a gPXE cd. Try that. You >> can get it from www.rom-o-matic.net. When it comes to the driver >> selection part, choose gpxe from the drop-down list. >> >> -Rob >> >> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 10:54:44AM +0300, Peter Trifonov wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I have installed K12LTSP 5-EL/32 bit onto a server in my network. It >>> >> works >> >>> fine with relatively modern client PCs. >>> However, booting 12-year old HP Vectra PCs (Pentium-200 CPU, 96 MB >>> >> RAM) >> >>> hangs with the words "Freeing ram used by initramfs". >>> The system is not really frozen, but nothing happens. I have a few >>> >> such >> >>> PCs, and all of them exhibit such behavior. I have observed some NFS >>> >> traffic >> >>> between the server and the client before it hangs. >>> >>> Does anyone have any suggestions what can be wrong with the clients? >>> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sbarar at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 01:54:27 2009 From: sbarar at gmail.com (Sudev Barar) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:24:27 +0530 Subject: [K12OSN] Help Spread LTSP/K12LTSP Awareness In-Reply-To: <1234209125.13986.70.camel@ett61> References: <1234209125.13986.70.camel@ett61> Message-ID: <774593a20902091754o136b4b8cpc94abf7892490b31@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/10 Erick Tyack : > > Help spread awareness of LTSP and K12LTSP. LTSP should take advantage > of Social Media/Networking to push LTSP awareness to as many people as [SNIP] +1 from me. -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. PS: I know most of people do not follow email niceties (mostly they are not aware) but if you follow bottom post/in-line post style of email conversations it becomes a whole lot easier to carry on meaningful dialogue and you can snip out what is not meaningful too. Most people just hit reply button and top post leaving prior message appended uselessly at bottom. See if you can adopt this style and persuade others. In case you are already doing this ..... great, spread the message. From petert at dcn.infos.ru Tue Feb 10 09:16:01 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:16:01 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <1234214034.5927.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234214034.5927.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <004101c98b60$311d60e0$935822a0$@infos.ru> Barry, My PCs have 3Com 3C905, Intel or AMD PCnet cards. However, all Pentium-1 boxes are not able to boot. Pentium-3 and Pentium-4 clients are working perfectly. Tcpdump reports that the clients load init executable via NFS. So the problem seems not to be related to the network card. With best regards, P. Trifonov > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of Barry R Cisna > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 12:14 AM > To: K12LTSP > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs > > Peter, > > You did not mention if these machines have onboard nics,or added in nic > cards & what brand they are? I would guess this old of machine has an > add in nic card. Some of these old of machines with onboard nics are > actually isa based nics. This may be your prob as well. Regardless. try > finding someplace to grab either any model Intel pci,or better yet > realtek 8139 pci card (can be bought for $2.50 ea.USD) and I bet your > TC > machines will boot alright. The realtek 8139 cards are the 'easiest' > working nic cards i have run across.Way back we used these by the many > that had the rom socket and burned rom chips to etherboot them this > way. > > And I'm sure the performance will be plenty satisfactory for someone > wanting to do web browsing with these machines. This is the specs we > used when we first started into using k12lstp and they worked out > plenty > good. > > Take Care, > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From petert at dcn.infos.ru Tue Feb 10 09:19:34 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:19:34 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <4990C6F2.3060604@cmosnetworks.com> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> <4990C6F2.3060604@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <004201c98b60$b030a8b0$1091fa10$@infos.ru> Terrell, All Pentium-3 and Pentium-4 clients work perfectly. The problem arises only with Pentium-1 ones. Looks like the init executable contains some instructions not available on i586. With best regards, P. Trifonov > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of "Terrell Prude Jr." > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:15 AM > To: Support list for open source software in schools. > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs > > I've seen this happen before, back when something was haywire with my > client's NIC; it was one of those gradual failures. Swapping NIC's did > the trick then. I've also (rarely) seen an NFS misconfig do it; this > is rare because it's autoconfig'd during the K12LTSP setup. I'm > assuming here that you've left /etc/dhcpd.conf (or /etc/dhcpd- > k12ltsp.conf) at its stock config. > > Can you try this: boot a thick client Linux box, try mounting > /opt/ltsp/i386 from the LTSP server, and copying everything under there > to a test directory on the thick client? > > Also, do you have another kind of thin client to try out to see if it > happens there, too? > > --TP > > _______________________________ > Do you GNU ? > Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate > antivirus protection! > > > > Peter Trifonov wrote: > > Rob, thanks a lot for the suggestion. I have tried gPXE, but with > the same > result. > The problem arises AFTER Linux kernel is downloaded from the > server and > started. > The kernel says: > > ... > Creating new ramdisk to hold our new rootfs > Mounting root filesystem: ... from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [Some NFS > traffic is > observed at the server at this moment] > Setting up the new root ramdisk area > Doing the switchroot > SwitchRoot v0.1 - Copyright 2005 Linux based systems design > Freeing ram used by initramfs > > > After this the system stops doing anything. > > > With best regards, > P. Trifonov > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn- > bounces at redhat.com] On > Behalf Of Rob Owens > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 6:21 PM > To: Support list for open source software in schools. > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs > > I had a similar problem and found that some clients would > not boot with > an etherboot cd, but they would boot with a gPXE cd. Try > that. You > can get it from www.rom-o-matic.net. When it comes to the > driver > selection part, choose gpxe from the drop-down list. > > -Rob > > On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 10:54:44AM +0300, Peter Trifonov > wrote: > > > Hello, > > I have installed K12LTSP 5-EL/32 bit onto a server in > my network. It > > > works > > > fine with relatively modern client PCs. > However, booting 12-year old HP Vectra PCs (Pentium- > 200 CPU, 96 MB > > > RAM) > > > hangs with the words "Freeing ram used by initramfs". > The system is not really frozen, but nothing happens. > I have a few > > > such > > > PCs, and all of them exhibit such behavior. I have > observed some NFS > > > traffic > > > between the server and the client before it hangs. > > Does anyone have any suggestions what can be wrong > with the clients? > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From petert at dcn.infos.ru Tue Feb 10 09:34:51 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:34:51 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> <002c01c98ad3$3d39f1f0$b7add5d0$@infos.ru> Message-ID: <004301c98b62$d28c0f60$77a42e20$@infos.ru> Enabling NFS swap did not change anything. What I need is just to start rdesktop and give access to USB flash drives. With best regards, P. Trifonov > If using this as a thin client with K12LTSP5 el, then I believe you > will want to enable NFS swap in the lts_conf file. I may be mistaken. From microman at cmosnetworks.com Tue Feb 10 13:22:42 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:22:42 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <004201c98b60$b030a8b0$1091fa10$@infos.ru> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> <4990C6F2.3060604@cmosnetworks.com> <004201c98b60$b030a8b0$1091fa10$@infos.ru> Message-ID: <49917FA2.8050506@cmosnetworks.com> Ah, interesting...by chance, do you have a Pentium-II thin client to try? Say, an old Pentium II-266MHz? --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Peter Trifonov wrote: > Terrell, > > All Pentium-3 and Pentium-4 clients work perfectly. The problem arises only > with Pentium-1 ones. > Looks like the init executable contains some instructions not available on > i586. > > With best regards, > P. Trifonov > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On >> Behalf Of "Terrell Prude Jr." >> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:15 AM >> To: Support list for open source software in schools. >> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs >> >> I've seen this happen before, back when something was haywire with my >> client's NIC; it was one of those gradual failures. Swapping NIC's did >> the trick then. I've also (rarely) seen an NFS misconfig do it; this >> is rare because it's autoconfig'd during the K12LTSP setup. I'm >> assuming here that you've left /etc/dhcpd.conf (or /etc/dhcpd- >> k12ltsp.conf) at its stock config. >> >> Can you try this: boot a thick client Linux box, try mounting >> /opt/ltsp/i386 from the LTSP server, and copying everything under there >> to a test directory on the thick client? >> >> Also, do you have another kind of thin client to try out to see if it >> happens there, too? >> >> --TP >> >> _______________________________ >> Do you GNU ? >> Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate >> antivirus protection! >> >> >> >> Peter Trifonov wrote: >> >> Rob, thanks a lot for the suggestion. I have tried gPXE, but with >> the same >> result. >> The problem arises AFTER Linux kernel is downloaded from the >> server and >> started. >> The kernel says: >> >> ... >> Creating new ramdisk to hold our new rootfs >> Mounting root filesystem: ... from xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [Some NFS >> traffic is >> observed at the server at this moment] >> Setting up the new root ramdisk area >> Doing the switchroot >> SwitchRoot v0.1 - Copyright 2005 Linux based systems design >> Freeing ram used by initramfs >> >> >> After this the system stops doing anything. >> >> >> With best regards, >> P. Trifonov >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn- >> bounces at redhat.com] On >> Behalf Of Rob Owens >> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 6:21 PM >> To: Support list for open source software in schools. >> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs >> >> I had a similar problem and found that some clients would >> not boot with >> an etherboot cd, but they would boot with a gPXE cd. Try >> that. You >> can get it from www.rom-o-matic.net. When it comes to the >> driver >> selection part, choose gpxe from the drop-down list. >> >> -Rob >> >> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 10:54:44AM +0300, Peter Trifonov >> wrote: >> >> >> Hello, >> >> I have installed K12LTSP 5-EL/32 bit onto a server >> > in > >> my network. It >> >> >> works >> >> >> fine with relatively modern client PCs. >> However, booting 12-year old HP Vectra PCs (Pentium- >> 200 CPU, 96 MB >> >> >> RAM) >> >> >> hangs with the words "Freeing ram used by >> > initramfs". > >> The system is not really frozen, but nothing >> > happens. > >> I have a few >> >> >> such >> >> >> PCs, and all of them exhibit such behavior. I have >> observed some NFS >> >> >> traffic >> >> >> between the server and the client before it hangs. >> >> Does anyone have any suggestions what can be wrong >> with the clients? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k12ltsp at rwcinc.net Tue Feb 10 14:21:47 2009 From: k12ltsp at rwcinc.net (Patrick Fleming) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:21:47 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <002c01c98ad3$3d39f1f0$b7add5d0$@infos.ru> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> <002c01c98ad3$3d39f1f0$b7add5d0$@infos.ru> Message-ID: <49918D7B.3020101@rwcinc.net> Peter Trifonov wrote: > In fact, I need just to start rdesktop. > I have used these PCs for some time with FreeBSD, and > the performance was quite satisfactory. Now I am trying to switch to linux > to get better USB support, but it does not work at all :-( > > With best regards, > P. Trifonov Do these machines have a bootable CD drive? If so, you might try out Thinstation http://thinstation.org/ I use it as a backup for my office in case the LTSP server goes down so that I can at least use rdesktop to access our Windows based programs. > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: k12osn-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:k12osn-bounces at redhat.com] On >> Behalf Of Eric Brown >> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 7:18 PM >> To: Support list for open source software in schools. >> Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs >> >> IMHO, you're probably not going to be happy with the performance you >> get with 200MHz processors and 96mb of ram. My Spidey senses tell me >> that you may not have enough RAM (although technically LTSP can work >> with even less that this on a client), or you may have put 128MB in a >> machine that can only see 96MB. >> >> I think you'll be happier if you can find some 400MHz or higher >> machines that have 128MB ram that someone's throwing out. >> >> Good luck. >> Eric >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From rbachelier at aesis-conseil.com Tue Feb 10 14:49:41 2009 From: rbachelier at aesis-conseil.com (Richard Bachelier) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:49:41 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin client + CDROM device In-Reply-To: <1234099481.23938.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234099481.23938.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200902101549.41815.rbachelier@aesis-conseil.com> Le Sunday 08 February 2009 14:24:41 Barry R Cisna, vous avez ?crit?: > Richard, > > Here is a link on how to do cd-rom on TC's, to do cd-rom burning. I > tried this many moons ago and it does work, but not very 'transparent' > by a long shot. I think you are merely wanting to be able to run the > cd-rom drive as a local device though? It seems it shouldn't be that > difficult but I have never been able to make this happen myself. I bet > someone here lots smarter than me maybe has some ideas on this. > I am not sure what the status is on this matter in regards to ltsp 5.0? > > http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LocalCDWriting > > Take Care, > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see thank you Problem solved because not necessary to use the CDROM of the thin client in our project Regards Richard From petert at dcn.infos.ru Tue Feb 10 15:05:19 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:05:19 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <49917FA2.8050506@cmosnetworks.com> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> <4990C6F2.3060604@cmosnetworks.com> <004201c98b60$b030a8b0$1091fa10$@infos.ru> <49917FA2.8050506@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <005401c98b90$fcde5330$f69af990$@infos.ru> > Ah, interesting...by chance, do you have a Pentium-II thin client to > try? Say, an old Pentium II-266MHz? Yes, and it works :-) With best regards, P. Trifonov > All Pentium-3 and Pentium-4 clients work perfectly. The problem > arises only > with Pentium-1 ones. > Looks like the init executable contains some instructions not > available on i586. From petert at dcn.infos.ru Tue Feb 10 15:07:07 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:07:07 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <49918D7B.3020101@rwcinc.net> References: <001001c98a8b$abaa6d10$02ff4730$@infos.ru> <20090209152034.GE10405@junker.owens.net> <002b01c98ad0$904bd7d0$b0e38770$@infos.ru> <002c01c98ad3$3d39f1f0$b7add5d0$@infos.ru> <49918D7B.3020101@rwcinc.net> Message-ID: <005501c98b91$3d3e9480$b7bbbd80$@infos.ru> > Do these machines have a bootable CD drive? If so, you might try out > Thinstation http://thinstation.org/ I use it as a backup for my office > in case the LTSP server goes down so that I can at least use rdesktop > to > access our Windows based programs. There is a CD-ROM, but it is not able to read CD-RW disks. But I will keep Thinstation in mind, thanks for the suggestion! With best regards, P. Trifonov From cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us Tue Feb 10 16:32:24 2009 From: cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us (Barry Cisna) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:32:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs Message-ID: <42099.172.28.8.56.1234283544.squirrel@172.28.8.55> Peter, Are these machines -pentium 1's- have onboard nics or add in cards? If these are integrated nics, it would be worth a try to pull an add on (pci) card out of a known booting machine and pop the pci nic card into each one and see if you have any better results. Possibly try switching pci slots as well. I'm sure you have tried this by this time:) Usually 3com905 nics,as you have, work pretty easily. Also try unplugging and replugging your switch as well at the same time. the switch you are using is not a managed switch is it? Older HP's and Compaq's have some weird issues with irg sharing when etherboot booting.Do you ever see a single line saying something like "disabling IRQ3,,blah,,blah.." or something similar while these machines boot? I never could really figure out why that is. Take Care, Barry Cisna From petert at dcn.infos.ru Tue Feb 10 16:56:39 2009 From: petert at dcn.infos.ru (Peter Trifonov) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:56:39 +0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <42099.172.28.8.56.1234283544.squirrel@172.28.8.55> References: <42099.172.28.8.56.1234283544.squirrel@172.28.8.55> Message-ID: <005701c98ba0$8ac95b90$a05c12b0$@infos.ru> Barry, > > Are these machines -pentium 1's- have onboard nics or add in cards? If > these are integrated nics, it would be worth a try to pull an add on They have add in cards from 3Com, Intel and AMD. They are able to download Linux kernel via TFTP and some executables via NFS. They are even plugged into different switches. The problem does not seem to be related to network. > "disabling IRQ3,,blah,,blah.." or something similar while these > machines boot? No. With best regards, P. Trifonov From lesmikesell at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 17:08:14 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:08:14 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Network boot hangs In-Reply-To: <42099.172.28.8.56.1234283544.squirrel@172.28.8.55> References: <42099.172.28.8.56.1234283544.squirrel@172.28.8.55> Message-ID: <4991B47E.1080304@gmail.com> Barry Cisna wrote: > Peter, > > Are these machines -pentium 1's- have onboard nics or add in cards? If > these are integrated nics, it would be worth a try to pull an add on (pci) > card out of a known booting machine and pop the pci nic card into each one > and see if you have any better results. Possibly try switching pci slots > as well. I'm sure you have tried this by this time:) Usually 3com905 > nics,as you have, work pretty easily. > Also try unplugging and replugging your switch as well at the same time. > the switch you are using is not a managed switch is it? > Older HP's and Compaq's have some weird issues with irg sharing when > etherboot booting.Do you ever see a single line saying something like > "disabling IRQ3,,blah,,blah.." or something similar while these machines > boot? > I never could really figure out why that is. NFS tends to send large blocks that old NICs might not be able to receive at full speed. I sort-of remember a similar discussion about 3c509's long ago but can't recall if there was a solution. Ahh, here's a link: https://www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/2005-October/msg00187.html -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From alexc at disklessworkstations.com Wed Feb 11 20:30:42 2009 From: alexc at disklessworkstations.com (Alex Colcernian) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:30:42 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Logo Contest Reminder - Linux Terminal Server Project Message-ID: <005501c98c87$9c55ebc0$d501c340$@com> Better hurry . Time Is Up @ 11:59 PM EST on Feb. 27th, 2009! Last call for Logo Designs to represent the Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP) . http://www.ltsp.org Can your Digital Art Skills top this? http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/contestlogos.html You Think So, Eh? Well then Read Here: http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/ltspContest.html Submit Your Design to: Contest at DisklessWorkstations.com and wait ... To Win A Free Thin Client! Alex Colcernian DisklessWorkstations.Com From robark at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 06:00:59 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:00:59 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] Anyone familiar with these thin client soutions Message-ID: Wondering if someone can provide a brief comparison of these 2 solutions. They look very similar. http://vbridges.com/docs/VERDEClusterOverview.pdf http://www.revolutionlinux.com/Open-Source-Thin-Clients?lang=en -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From whatch at anwsu.org Thu Feb 12 16:31:29 2009 From: whatch at anwsu.org (Will Hatch) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:31:29 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Anyone familiar with these thin client soutions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <499407ED.0948.00D4.0@anwsu.org> The Revolution Linux thin client is a DevonIT device, I think. I purchased 20 of them this past summer for our new lab. I use them with a Windows 2008 thin client network, and a K12ltsp server. They work quite well for 150$. I have had to send a couple back for defects, and have had to re-flash others because of OS problems. The Thinmanage software that you can use to remotely control them goes through vmware and runs Ubuntu with a light desktop. It has had flaws but the latest version seems to work. It is hand to remotely shut them on and off, as well as update and clone. I would recommend them. >>> Robert Arkiletian 2/12/2009 1:00:59 am >>> Wondering if someone can provide a brief comparison of these 2 solutions. They look very similar. http://vbridges.com/docs/VERDEClusterOverview.pdf http://www.revolutionlinux.com/Open-Source-Thin-Clients?lang=en -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see *********************************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This communication, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of addressee and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you're not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return email and delete this communication and destroy all copies. It is the policy of ANWSU not to discriminate on the basis or race, color, religion, national origin, gender, disability, or gender orientation in its educational programs or activities, or in its employment policies as required by Title IX of the 1972 Educational Amendments, by Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, by Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and by Vermont State Law. From cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us Thu Feb 12 19:39:35 2009 From: cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us (Barry Cisna) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:39:35 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] ncomputing Message-ID: <1234467575.20352.4.camel@hi2.wc235.k12.il.us> Hello List, Not trying to promote anything,but just wondered if anyone has seen the adverts cdw is really pushing lately. Called ncomputing. Pretty much a TC spinoff. Their claim is $80 per seat. I'm sure this may have already been thrown out here and I didn't see it. Just have seen this is the last several sendouts from cdw. Take Care, Barry Cisna From bmead at lane.k12.or.us Thu Feb 12 22:18:09 2009 From: bmead at lane.k12.or.us (Bob Mead) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:18:09 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] ncomputing In-Reply-To: <1234467575.20352.4.camel@hi2.wc235.k12.il.us> References: <1234467575.20352.4.camel@hi2.wc235.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <4994A021.5070300@lane.k12.or.us> Hello Barry: I just checked CDW, the ncomputing l200 is discontinued, the l230 is still available @ $197 - is there something I missed? Thanks, ~bob Barry Cisna wrote: > Hello List, > > Not trying to promote anything,but just wondered if anyone has seen the > adverts cdw is really pushing lately. Called ncomputing. Pretty much a > TC spinoff. Their claim is $80 per seat. I'm sure this may have already > been thrown out here and I didn't see it. Just have seen this is the > last several sendouts from cdw. > > Take Care, > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bmead.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 199 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jebarr at stclair.k12.il.us Thu Feb 12 20:39:40 2009 From: jebarr at stclair.k12.il.us (John Barr) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:39:40 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] ncomputing In-Reply-To: <1234467575.20352.4.camel@hi2.wc235.k12.il.us> References: <1234467575.20352.4.camel@hi2.wc235.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <4994890C.7080504@stclair.k12.il.us> We use nComputing in all of our elementary classrooms. We bought reconditioned Dells for $209. apiece, 2.8. gig 512 Ram then added the nComputing card, boxes, and cords (all for another $200.00) and presto you have 4 machines that act like XP and look like XP for $400.00. You can add a second card and boxes for 7 overall machines. That would cost you another $200.00, so you would have $600 for 7 machines. We haven't had any substantial problems with them. Everyone has a headphone jack too. The only issue we have had is a teacher wanting to run cd based programs. You only have a cd on the master machine. It is cool and cheap. We are a poor and struggling school district. It allowed us to replace 400 PCs with 100 masters and 100 computing systems. Plus at the time we got 15 free when we bought 100 Ncomputing systems. The jury is still out if we need to buy windows user CALs for the systems. Bill always has his hand out. Thanks, John Barr jebarr at stclair.k12.il.us Technology Systems Support Lead Person Cahokia Unit School District 187 618-332-2191 (office) 618-806-8920 (cell) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED AND RESTRICTED FOR USE BY THE ABOVE ADDRESSEE ONLY. IT MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR PRIVILEGED INFORMATION EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER FEDERAL OR STATE LAW. IN THE EVENT SOME OTHER PERSON OR ENTITY RECEIVES THIS TRANSMISSION, SAID RECIPIENT IS HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION, OR DUPLICATION OF THIS TRANSMISSION OR ITS CONTENTS IS PROHIBITED. IF YOU SHOULD RECEIVE THIS TRANSMISSION IN ERROR, PLEASE CALL US IMMEDIATELY AT 618.332.2191, DELETE THE FILE FROM YOUR SYSTEM, AND DESTROY ANY HARD COPIES OF THIS TRANSMISSION. THANK YOU. Barry Cisna wrote: > Hello List, > > Not trying to promote anything,but just wondered if anyone has seen the > adverts cdw is really pushing lately. Called ncomputing. Pretty much a > TC spinoff. Their claim is $80 per seat. I'm sure this may have already > been thrown out here and I didn't see it. Just have seen this is the > last several sendouts from cdw. > > Take Care, > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > From rowens at ptd.net Thu Feb 12 22:27:14 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:27:14 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] ncomputing In-Reply-To: <1234467575.20352.4.camel@hi2.wc235.k12.il.us> References: <1234467575.20352.4.camel@hi2.wc235.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <20090212222714.GB14070@junker.owens.net> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 01:39:35PM -0600, Barry Cisna wrote: > Hello List, > > Not trying to promote anything,but just wondered if anyone has seen the > adverts cdw is really pushing lately. Called ncomputing. Pretty much a > TC spinoff. Their claim is $80 per seat. I'm sure this may have already > been thrown out here and I didn't see it. Just have seen this is the > last several sendouts from cdw. > I spoke to them on the phone about 6 months ago. If I recall correctly, it's $80/seat for their software. You need to add the cost of their hardware, I think, and the cost of a Windows license for each seat in order to be legit (assuming you're using it on a Windows system -- do they work on Linux as well?) -Rob From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 02:14:57 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:14:57 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Fedora Tweaks? Message-ID: Hello, Just installed the K12Linux (Fedora 10 LTSP based) and I was just following the various guides online to set up audio, video, etc. I came across this Fedora 10 guide http://www.fedoraguide.info/index.php?title=Main_Page In it were some tweaks for speeding up Firefox, Linux, etc and one of the recommendations for bandwidth was as follows: * Open the sysctl.conf file for editing and backup your previous sysctl.conf file su -c 'cp /etc/sysctl.conf /etc/sysctl.conf.backup' su -c 'gedit /etc/sysctl.conf' * Add the following lines ## increase TCP max buffer size setable using setsockopt() net.core.rmem_max = 16777216 net.core.wmem_max = 16777216 ## increase Linux autotuning TCP buffer limits ## min, default, and max number of bytes to use ## set max to at least 4MB, or higher if you use very high BDP paths net.ipv4.tcp_rmem = 4096 87380 16777216 net.ipv4.tcp_wmem = 4096 65536 16777216 ## don't cache ssthresh from previous connection net.ipv4.tcp_no_metrics_save = 1 net.ipv4.tcp_moderate_rcvbuf = 1 ## recommended to increase this for 1000 BT or higher net.core.netdev_max_backlog = 2500 ## for 10 GigE, use this, uncomment below ## net.core.netdev_max_backlog = 30000 ## Turn off timestamps if you're on a gigabit or very busy network ## Having it off is one less thing the IP stack needs to work on ## net.ipv4.tcp_timestamps = 0 ## disable tcp selective acknowledgements. net.ipv4.tcp_sack = 0 ##enable window scaling net.ipv4.tcp_window_scaling = 1 * Save it and close it. Run the following command su -c '/sbin/sysctl -p' -- Given that LTSP is a bit more complex than the usual network stuff, would any of this help or hinder? Thanks, Joseph From k12ltsp at rwcinc.net Fri Feb 13 13:51:26 2009 From: k12ltsp at rwcinc.net (Patrick Fleming) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 06:51:26 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] ncomputing In-Reply-To: <20090212222714.GB14070@junker.owens.net> References: <1234467575.20352.4.camel@hi2.wc235.k12.il.us> <20090212222714.GB14070@junker.owens.net> Message-ID: <49957ADE.40201@rwcinc.net> The price point is a little higher than noted below, but Tigerdirect carries these: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=ncomputing&searchbtn.x=0&searchbtn.y=0 and there is more information on the ncomputing web page http://ncomputing.com And yes, there is Linux-based software. Rob Owens wrote: > On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 01:39:35PM -0600, Barry Cisna wrote: >> Hello List, >> >> Not trying to promote anything,but just wondered if anyone has seen >> the adverts cdw is really pushing lately. Called ncomputing. Pretty >> much a TC spinoff. Their claim is $80 per seat. I'm sure this may >> have already been thrown out here and I didn't see it. Just have >> seen this is the last several sendouts from cdw. >> > I spoke to them on the phone about 6 months ago. If I recall > correctly, it's $80/seat for their software. You need to add the > cost of their hardware, I think, and the cost of a Windows license > for each seat in order to be legit (assuming you're using it on a > Windows system -- do they work on Linux as well?) > > -Rob > > _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For > more info see > From fcdanilo at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 16:14:56 2009 From: fcdanilo at gmail.com (Danilo =?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E2mara?=) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:14:56 -0300 Subject: [K12OSN] "umount: device is busy" error in ltsp-build-client Message-ID: <1234541696.3548.79.camel@localhost.localdomain> So far I have successfully installed LTSP in Fedora 10 x86_64 servers (for i386 thin-clients) but when installing on Fedora 10 i386 servers I always get the following error message in ltsp-build-client: ... Installing: perl-Pod-Simple ##################### [387/388] Installing: hpijs ##################### [388/388] umount: /var/tmp/imgcreate-mDg5Ft/install_root: device is busy. (In some cases useful info about processes that use the device is found by lsof(8) or fuser(1)) /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/common/010-chroot-tagging: line 3: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp_chroot: No such file or directory error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally The best match I found on the Web about this is on https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2008-February/msg00120.html but there was no conclusive solution there. I am installing from the LTSP packages in Fedora 10 distribution and did the following configurations: diff /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf.original /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf 8c8 < # option_cache_value=/var/cache/chroot --- > option_cache_value=/var/cache/chroot 10c10 < # option_arch_value=i386 --- > option_arch_value=i386 and these configuration to use our local network mirror of the packages (downloading from web I got the same results) diff /etc/ltsp/kickstart/Fedora/10/ltsp-i386.ks.original /etc/ltsp/kickstart/Fedora/10/ltsp-i386.ks 6,8c6,8 < repo --name=released-10-i386 --mirrorlist=http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?repo=fedora-10&arch=i386 < repo --name=updates-10-i386 --mirrorlist=http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?repo=updates-released-f10&arch=i386 < repo --name=temporary-10-i386 --baseurl=http://togami.com/~k12linux-temporary/fedora/10/i386/ --- > repo --name=released-10-i386 --baseurl=file:///home/Packages/Linux/Fedora/10/i386/os/ > repo --name=updates-10-i386 --baseurl=file:///home/Packages/Linux/Fedora/10/i386/updates/ > repo --name=temporary-10-i386 --baseurl=file:///home/Packages/Linux/Fedora/10/i386/k12linux/ Danilo Camara From rbachelier at aesis-conseil.com Mon Feb 16 15:36:23 2009 From: rbachelier at aesis-conseil.com (Richard Bachelier) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:36:23 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] Problem with usb stick and local cdrom device Message-ID: <200902161636.23545.rbachelier@aesis-conseil.com> Hi, I work with ltsp 5 on FEDORA 10. I have two troubles . - on a kde 4 desktop (the last one) , no icon appears when i plug a usb stick - when i put a CD or DVD on my local device (on the thin client), nothing append (no icon, no mount point) Do you have a idea, please ? thank you for your help Richard From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 14:50:09 2009 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:50:09 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Setting Acrobat as the default PDF viewer Message-ID: Where would I set this so it's automatically set for all my users? -- Ryan Collins Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools http://ryancolllins.org/wp/ From stretchem at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 14:55:48 2009 From: stretchem at gmail.com (M Rathburn) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:55:48 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Setting Acrobat as the default PDF viewer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <499acff0.4403be0a.0985.ffffbee4@mx.google.com> > Where would I set this so it's automatically set for all my users? > > -- > Ryan Collins ------------------------------ Don't have an answer for you, just a suggestion... Reader will be dog slow on terminal server if the document has more than one page. In addition it's a memory hog. We use Evince among a dozen users with 20-30 page documents and works perfectly. From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 15:36:44 2009 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:36:44 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Setting Acrobat as the default PDF viewer In-Reply-To: <499acff0.4403be0a.0985.ffffbee4@mx.google.com> References: <499acff0.4403be0a.0985.ffffbee4@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <499AD98C.8000608@gmail.com> M Rathburn wrote: > Don't have an answer for you, just a suggestion... Reader will be dog slow > on terminal server if the document has more than one page. In addition it's > a memory hog. We use Evince among a dozen users with 20-30 page documents > and works perfectly. They need it to fill out some PDF forms, which apparently Evince can't do (I haven't had a chance to try). -- Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mr_rcollins.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jobrien at meridian.wednet.edu Tue Feb 17 15:39:55 2009 From: jobrien at meridian.wednet.edu (JOSEPH O'BRIEN) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:39:55 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] OT? rdesktop and sound Message-ID: Apologies if this is off topic, but...I need to set a some clients to rdesktop with sound by putting it is SCREEN_01 in lts.conf, but it's not quite working as expected. I'm running Warren's K12Linux F10 Stable 4 x86-64 Live CD installed to the harddrive. Sound under ldm works great, but if I try running *"rdesktop -r sound:local -f 172.31.100.250",* from ldm, rdekstop works, but sound is on the server, not the client. If I run *"padsp -d -s 'client-ip':4713 -n rdesktop rdesktop -r sound:local -f 172.31.100.250" * everything works fine, but not quite what I'm looking for. If I set SCREEN_01 to *"rdesktop -r sound:local -f 172.31.100.250"*, rdesktop works, but no sound anywhere. I tried runing *"padsp -d -s localhost:4713 -n rdesktop rdesktop -r sound:local -f 172.31.100.250"* from SCREEN_01, but it complained about padsp not found, even when specifying path. Am I understanding this correctly, pulse server starts on the client, ldm sets up a virtual alsa, rdesktop uses OSS for sound, and padsp reroutes OSS to pulse? If I set SCREEN_01=shell, do I only have pulse and how do I use it? Thanks Joe O'Brien -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 16:36:09 2009 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:36:09 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] new lab install In-Reply-To: <10104873.26131224690178421.JavaMail.root@zimbra.thegeek.nu> References: <10104873.26131224690178421.JavaMail.root@zimbra.thegeek.nu> Message-ID: <499AE779.4060907@gmail.com> David L. Willson wrote: > Isn't it possible that with Samba on the /home server (which can be > the LTS) and folder redirection on the Windows domain, you can have > $HOME as Windows' home drive and $HOME/Documents as Windows' "My > Documents" so that you don't have to teach the students to connect to > a server? I'd like to get that going here at RMSEL in Colorado, > unless someone warns me off. Although we use OS X server for authentication and home directories, this should be possible with a Windows server too. Our students can log in to a Windows, Linux, or OS X machine and they have the exact same icons on the Desktop and their Documents folder is in the correct place (using folder redirection under Windows, with Linux, they just so happen to use the same Desktop and Documents folder that is used under OS X). -- Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mr_rcollins.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 170 bytes Desc: not available URL: From toshlinux at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 18:52:57 2009 From: toshlinux at gmail.com (Tosh) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:52:57 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] Setting Acrobat as the default PDF viewer In-Reply-To: <499AD98C.8000608@gmail.com> References: <499acff0.4403be0a.0985.ffffbee4@mx.google.com> <499AD98C.8000608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <499B0789.40801@gmail.com> Ryan Collins wrote: > M Rathburn wrote: >> Don't have an answer for you, just a suggestion... Reader will be dog >> slow >> on terminal server if the document has more than one page. In addition >> it's >> a memory hog. We use Evince among a dozen users with 20-30 page documents >> and works perfectly. > > They need it to fill out some PDF forms, which apparently Evince can't > do (I haven't had a chance to try). > try uninstalling evince??? From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 19:09:49 2009 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:09:49 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Make any web site into a clickable "app" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <499B0B7D.6020509@gmail.com> David Trask wrote: > I'm sharing this story, because it is simply so useful...especially in the > classroom. If you have specific web sites that you would like to make > into an easy "clickable" application (for example, I use it to make > Starfall.com into an app for the little ones) then this is for you. I've > tried it on Windows, OS X, and Linux...even LTSP. What a great idea! I've been looking at SSB stuff for awhile, but I never thought of using it for something like this! -- Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mr_rcollins.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stretchem at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 19:31:53 2009 From: stretchem at gmail.com (M Rathburn) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:31:53 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Setting Acrobat as the default PDF viewer In-Reply-To: <499AD98C.8000608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <499b10a5.c401be0a.79d6.ffff8bec@mx.google.com> > M Rathburn wrote: > > Don't have an answer for you, just a suggestion... Reader > will be dog > > slow on terminal server if the document has more than one page. In > > addition it's a memory hog. We use Evince among a dozen users with > > 20-30 page documents and works perfectly. > > They need it to fill out some PDF forms, which apparently > Evince can't do (I haven't had a chance to try). > > -- Not a problem for Evince. Test at www.irs.gov. From jjjggg at hotmail.com Wed Feb 18 01:19:59 2009 From: jjjggg at hotmail.com (J G) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:19:59 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Authenticating existing users with K12Linux Message-ID: We have an existing SME Server (CentOS 7.4 based) that students use for authentication and file storage for their Windows machines. We're about to install K12Linux on another server and ideally would like to authenticate against the existing server as well as use the existing home directories there as well. Searching the archives and wikis I found some information but don't know if it still applies to the new K12Linux. Is there a K12Linux how-to or install instructions somewhere that would help us or will it be self-explanatory once we do the install? Do we need to maintain indentical users/passwords on both machines or can we sync both together? Is there a better distribution than SME for doing this? Thanks in advance for any help or advice. _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rowens at ptd.net Wed Feb 18 02:06:23 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:06:23 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Authenticating existing users with K12Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090218020623.GB13483@aurora.owens.net> SME Server uses LDAP for its user authentication (as far as I understand it), so you should be able to authenticate K12Linux off of it. However, I set it up and tested it a couple weeks back and I couldn't get my Debian machine to authenticate. I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, or if SME's LDAP configuration is different than other OpenLDAP systems I've set up in the past. -Rob On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 08:19:59PM -0500, J G wrote: > > We have an existing SME Server (CentOS 7.4 based) that students use for authentication and file storage for their Windows machines. > > > > We're about to install K12Linux on another server and ideally would like to authenticate against the existing server as well as use the existing home directories there as well. > > > > Searching the archives and wikis I found some information but don't know if it still applies to the new K12Linux. Is there a K12Linux how-to or install instructions somewhere that would help us or will it be self-explanatory once we do the install? Do we need to maintain indentical users/passwords on both machines or can we sync both together? Is there a better distribution than SME for doing this? > > > > Thanks in advance for any help or advice. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn ?10 hidden secrets? from Jamie. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From brcisna at eazylivin.net Wed Feb 18 21:14:28 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:14:28 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] House planning/designing software for k12ltsp Message-ID: <1234991668.22985.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello List, I don't think I have seen anything in reference to this. The Industrial Arts dept at school would like to come up with some sort of House Design/planning software. I haven't ever seen anything close to this for Linux ,although I would think at this point ,someone surely has attempted something like this? The fact is I had a winders version of this of my own from about 6-7 years ago that was very easy to use and very feature rich ,that I would bet would run on Wine, but do you think I can find that cd in my cd archives,,,Not!! Anyone have any ideas leads on this one? Thanks, Barry Cisna From steve.towson at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 22:36:56 2009 From: steve.towson at gmail.com (Steve Towson) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:36:56 +0900 Subject: [K12OSN] Authenticating existing users with K12Linux Message-ID: Actually SME Server doesn't use LDAP for authentication by default, although you can turn it on - search the wiki for LDAP. The hard part is getting the home folder automounted. There's a wiki entry for authing Fed 7 against SME in the SME wiki (search for Fedora), but it uses Winbind rather than LDAP (and winbind is much trickier). The stuff on mounting home folders is useful, however. Let us know how you get on. Steve > > SME Server uses LDAP for its user authentication (as far as I understand > it), so you should be able to authenticate K12Linux off of it. However, I > set it up and tested it a couple weeks back and I couldn't get my Debian > machine to authenticate. I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, or if > SME's LDAP configuration is different than other OpenLDAP systems I've set > up in the past. > > -Rob > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robark at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 01:17:02 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:17:02 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] House planning/designing software for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: <1234991668.22985.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234991668.22985.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Barry R Cisna wrote: > Hello List, > > I don't think I have seen anything in reference to this. The Industrial > Arts dept at school would like to come up with some sort of House > Design/planning software. I haven't ever seen anything close to this for > Linux ,although I would think at this point ,someone surely has > attempted something like this? > The fact is I had a winders version of this of my own from about 6-7 > years ago that was very easy to use and very feature rich ,that I would > bet would run on Wine, but do you think I can find that cd in my cd > archives,,,Not!! > Anyone have any ideas leads on this one? this is not open source or for linux but it *might* run under wine http://sketchup.google.com/industries/education.html -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From robark at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 01:23:41 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:23:41 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] House planning/designing software for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: References: <1234991668.22985.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: this too http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/ On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Barry R Cisna wrote: >> Hello List, >> >> I don't think I have seen anything in reference to this. The Industrial >> Arts dept at school would like to come up with some sort of House >> Design/planning software. I haven't ever seen anything close to this for >> Linux ,although I would think at this point ,someone surely has >> attempted something like this? >> The fact is I had a winders version of this of my own from about 6-7 >> years ago that was very easy to use and very feature rich ,that I would >> bet would run on Wine, but do you think I can find that cd in my cd >> archives,,,Not!! >> Anyone have any ideas leads on this one? > > this is not open source or for linux but it *might* run under wine > http://sketchup.google.com/industries/education.html > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada > -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From rowens at ptd.net Thu Feb 19 02:22:02 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:22:02 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Authenticating existing users with K12Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090219022202.GB6380@aurora.owens.net> If you tell SME server to act as a domain controller (or whatever the web gui calls it), doesn't that use LDAP? -Rob On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 07:36:56AM +0900, Steve Towson wrote: > Actually SME Server doesn't use LDAP for authentication by default, although > you can turn it on - search the wiki for LDAP. The hard part is getting the > home folder automounted. > > There's a wiki entry for authing Fed 7 against SME in the SME wiki (search > for Fedora), but it uses Winbind rather than LDAP (and winbind is much > trickier). The stuff on mounting home folders is useful, however. > > Let us know how you get on. > > Steve > > > > > > > SME Server uses LDAP for its user authentication (as far as I understand > > it), so you should be able to authenticate K12Linux off of it. However, I > > set it up and tested it a couple weeks back and I couldn't get my Debian > > machine to authenticate. I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, or if > > SME's LDAP configuration is different than other OpenLDAP systems I've set > > up in the past. > > > > -Rob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From jjjggg at hotmail.com Thu Feb 19 05:00:38 2009 From: jjjggg at hotmail.com (JG) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:00:38 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Authenticating existing users with K12Linux References: <20090219022202.GB6380@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the help guys! As far as I can tell the built-in LDAP in SME doesn't really authenticate but there is an beta LDAP install that adds the extra functionality. I hopefully will get the K12Linux up and running this week and try it out. I'll use the suggested http://wiki.contribs.org/Fedora7 for reference. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Owens" To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Authenticating existing users with K12Linux > If you tell SME server to act as a domain controller (or whatever the web > gui calls it), doesn't that use LDAP? > > -Rob > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 07:36:56AM +0900, Steve Towson wrote: >> Actually SME Server doesn't use LDAP for authentication by default, >> although >> you can turn it on - search the wiki for LDAP. The hard part is getting >> the >> home folder automounted. >> >> There's a wiki entry for authing Fed 7 against SME in the SME wiki >> (search >> for Fedora), but it uses Winbind rather than LDAP (and winbind is much >> trickier). The stuff on mounting home folders is useful, however. >> >> Let us know how you get on. >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> > >> > SME Server uses LDAP for its user authentication (as far as I >> > understand >> > it), so you should be able to authenticate K12Linux off of it. >> > However, I >> > set it up and tested it a couple weeks back and I couldn't get my >> > Debian >> > machine to authenticate. I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, >> > or if >> > SME's LDAP configuration is different than other OpenLDAP systems I've >> > set >> > up in the past. >> > >> > -Rob >> > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From nils at breun.nl Thu Feb 19 07:50:17 2009 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:50:17 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] House planning/designing software for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: <1234991668.22985.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234991668.22985.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20441E7D-8111-49D9-856D-73F9290905D6@breun.nl> Barry R Cisna wrote: > I don't think I have seen anything in reference to this. The > Industrial > Arts dept at school would like to come up with some sort of House > Design/planning software. I haven't ever seen anything close to this > for > Linux ,although I would think at this point ,someone surely has > attempted something like this? > The fact is I had a winders version of this of my own from about 6-7 > years ago that was very easy to use and very feature rich ,that I > would > bet would run on Wine, but do you think I can find that cd in my cd > archives,,,Not!! > Anyone have any ideas leads on this one? I don't know what your exact requirements are, but how about a web based tool like Floorplanner? http://floorplanner.com/ Nils Breunese. From rowens at ptd.net Thu Feb 19 15:42:05 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:42:05 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Authenticating existing users with K12Linux In-Reply-To: <20090219022202.GB6380@aurora.owens.net> References: <20090219022202.GB6380@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <20090219154205.GA9739@aurora.owens.net> I just checked this in a virtual machine. This is running, even without setting SME Server to act as a "Workgroup and Domain Controller": /usr/sbin/slapd -4 -u ldap -d 0 This is version 7.4 -Rob On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 09:22:02PM -0500, Rob Owens wrote: > If you tell SME server to act as a domain controller (or whatever the web gui calls it), doesn't that use LDAP? > > -Rob > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 07:36:56AM +0900, Steve Towson wrote: > > Actually SME Server doesn't use LDAP for authentication by default, although > > you can turn it on - search the wiki for LDAP. The hard part is getting the > > home folder automounted. > > > > There's a wiki entry for authing Fed 7 against SME in the SME wiki (search > > for Fedora), but it uses Winbind rather than LDAP (and winbind is much > > trickier). The stuff on mounting home folders is useful, however. > > > > Let us know how you get on. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > SME Server uses LDAP for its user authentication (as far as I understand > > > it), so you should be able to authenticate K12Linux off of it. However, I > > > set it up and tested it a couple weeks back and I couldn't get my Debian > > > machine to authenticate. I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, or if > > > SME's LDAP configuration is different than other OpenLDAP systems I've set > > > up in the past. > > > > > > -Rob > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see From rowens at ptd.net Thu Feb 19 15:58:57 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:58:57 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Authenticating existing users with K12Linux In-Reply-To: <20090219154205.GA9739@aurora.owens.net> References: <20090219022202.GB6380@aurora.owens.net> <20090219154205.GA9739@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <20090219155857.GB9739@aurora.owens.net> Just did some more testing. nmap shows port 389 (ldap) open on SME Server whether or not it's acting as a domain controller. When configured as a domain controller, I was able to join the domain from a debian system with samba installed. LDAP is properly configured (I think) on the debian system, but 'getent passwd' does not return any of the SME Server usernames. -Rob On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:42:05AM -0500, Rob Owens wrote: > I just checked this in a virtual machine. This is running, even without setting SME Server to act as a "Workgroup and Domain Controller": > > /usr/sbin/slapd -4 -u ldap -d 0 > > This is version 7.4 > > -Rob > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 09:22:02PM -0500, Rob Owens wrote: > > If you tell SME server to act as a domain controller (or whatever the web gui calls it), doesn't that use LDAP? > > > > -Rob > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 07:36:56AM +0900, Steve Towson wrote: > > > Actually SME Server doesn't use LDAP for authentication by default, although > > > you can turn it on - search the wiki for LDAP. The hard part is getting the > > > home folder automounted. > > > > > > There's a wiki entry for authing Fed 7 against SME in the SME wiki (search > > > for Fedora), but it uses Winbind rather than LDAP (and winbind is much > > > trickier). The stuff on mounting home folders is useful, however. > > > > > > Let us know how you get on. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SME Server uses LDAP for its user authentication (as far as I understand > > > > it), so you should be able to authenticate K12Linux off of it. However, I > > > > set it up and tested it a couple weeks back and I couldn't get my Debian > > > > machine to authenticate. I'm not sure if I was doing something wrong, or if > > > > SME's LDAP configuration is different than other OpenLDAP systems I've set > > > > up in the past. > > > > > > > > -Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > K12OSN mailing list > > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > > For more info see From carl at snarlnet.com Thu Feb 19 23:04:13 2009 From: carl at snarlnet.com (Carl Keil) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:04:13 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] Server mixing up sda/sdb/sdc, etc. at boot time. Message-ID: <499DE56D.8080403@snarlnet.com> Hey folks, I've got a weird problem. Googling has provided me with links to other people experiencing the same thing (so I'm not crazy, maybe), but no solutions. I'm getting smartd messages that I have a failing hard drive in my RAID array. So I thought I'd be proactive and swap out the drive since I have a spare. I have 4 sata heads on the mobo. I have sda as the unraided boot drive and sdb + sdc configured as md0 for the /home directory. I figured that sata1 would be sda, sata2 would be sdb, etc. So I pulled the drive that was on sata3 because the message said that sdc had the problem. When I rebooted, the server wouldn't boot up? Turns out that sata3 is sda?! I've tried pulling each of the drives in turn and it seems like the computer reshuffles the drives almost randomly. So they all take turns being sda/sdb, etc., depending on which are plugged, unplugged. Sometimes the raid shows up, sometimes it can't be found. With only one drive pulled, out of 4 drives, only 3 of which are supposed to be in use. Is there a way to lock these down so that they always correspond to sda/sdb, etc? It seems like that would have to happen in BIOS, but it doesn't look like an option. If the drives aren't assigned sequentially, how am I supposed to swap out the drive? Any help would be appreciated. ck From rowens at ptd.net Thu Feb 19 23:46:52 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:46:52 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Server mixing up sda/sdb/sdc, etc. at boot time. In-Reply-To: <499DE56D.8080403@snarlnet.com> References: <499DE56D.8080403@snarlnet.com> Message-ID: <20090219234651.GB13052@aurora.owens.net> You can use the UUID of the drive in /etc/fstab, instead of the device name (sda, sdb, etc). You can find the UUID of your drives with this command (as root): vol_id -u device where "device" is /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2, etc. -Rob On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 03:04:13PM -0800, Carl Keil wrote: > Hey folks, > > I've got a weird problem. Googling has provided me with links to other > people experiencing the same thing (so I'm not crazy, maybe), but no > solutions. > > I'm getting smartd messages that I have a failing hard drive in my RAID > array. So I thought I'd be proactive and swap out the drive since I > have a spare. I have 4 sata heads on the mobo. I have sda as the > unraided boot drive and sdb + sdc configured as md0 for the /home > directory. I figured that sata1 would be sda, sata2 would be sdb, etc. > So I pulled the drive that was on sata3 because the message said that > sdc had the problem. When I rebooted, the server wouldn't boot up? > Turns out that sata3 is sda?! I've tried pulling each of the drives in > turn and it seems like the computer reshuffles the drives almost > randomly. So they all take turns being sda/sdb, etc., depending on > which are plugged, unplugged. Sometimes the raid shows up, sometimes it > can't be found. With only one drive pulled, out of 4 drives, only 3 of > which are supposed to be in use. > > Is there a way to lock these down so that they always correspond to > sda/sdb, etc? It seems like that would have to happen in BIOS, but it > doesn't look like an option. If the drives aren't assigned > sequentially, how am I supposed to swap out the drive? > > Any help would be appreciated. > > ck > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From fcdanilo at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 00:20:58 2009 From: fcdanilo at gmail.com (Danilo =?ISO-8859-1?Q?C=E2mara?=) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:20:58 -0300 Subject: [K12OSN] Serial mouse (ttyS0) in K12LTSP Fedora 10 Message-ID: <1235089258.7859.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have some (really) old terminals that don't have a PS/2 mouse port and can only use serial mice. Since Fedora Core 5, serial mice are no longer supported (see: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/fc5/release-notes-ISO/#id3149968) As the clients machines in recent K12LTSP run Fedora 10 distribution, they don't support serial mice. The typical lts.conf configuration for serial mice doesn't work either: X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "Microsoft" X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/ttyS0" X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION = "400" X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = "3" Does anyone knows a way to make serial mice work in K12LTSP Fedora 10? Thanks From chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com Fri Feb 20 01:14:53 2009 From: chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com (Chris Norman) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 01:14:53 -0000 Subject: [K12OSN] Server mixing up sda/sdb/sdc, etc. at boot time. References: <499DE56D.8080403@snarlnet.com> Message-ID: <2095D04198E841189730D438303E4CB5@CNorman> I don't really pretend to know anything about this, but can you not mount drives on their serial numbers or something? I can't remember, and I could be completely wrong, but I seem to remember that somewhere in man 5 fstab, there was some useful stuff. HTH, Take care, Chris Norman. Email and msn: chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com IChat and Skype: chris.norman7 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Keil" To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:04 PM Subject: [K12OSN] Server mixing up sda/sdb/sdc, etc. at boot time. > Hey folks, > > I've got a weird problem. Googling has provided me with links to other > people experiencing the same thing (so I'm not crazy, maybe), but no > solutions. > > I'm getting smartd messages that I have a failing hard drive in my RAID > array. So I thought I'd be proactive and swap out the drive since I have > a spare. I have 4 sata heads on the mobo. I have sda as the unraided > boot drive and sdb + sdc configured as md0 for the /home directory. I > figured that sata1 would be sda, sata2 would be sdb, etc. So I pulled the > drive that was on sata3 because the message said that sdc had the problem. > When I rebooted, the server wouldn't boot up? Turns out that sata3 is > sda?! I've tried pulling each of the drives in turn and it seems like the > computer reshuffles the drives almost randomly. So they all take turns > being sda/sdb, etc., depending on which are plugged, unplugged. Sometimes > the raid shows up, sometimes it can't be found. With only one drive > pulled, out of 4 drives, only 3 of which are supposed to be in use. > > Is there a way to lock these down so that they always correspond to > sda/sdb, etc? It seems like that would have to happen in BIOS, but it > doesn't look like an option. If the drives aren't assigned sequentially, > how am I supposed to swap out the drive? > > Any help would be appreciated. > > ck > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > __________ NOD32 3868 (20090219) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 02:22:57 2009 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:22:57 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Google Apps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <499E1401.6090003@gmail.com> David Hopkins wrote: > A lot of teachers at our school have discovered Google Apps and are > pushing it as a replacement for StarOffice because it is web-based, > allows students to submit documents easier and a whole host of other > benefits. However, what has also been observed is that the servers > get very very sluggish once an entire class of students sign in. The > suspicion is that this is due to Google Apps and Flash? Install Google Gears and try out offline mode. At least then you can figure out if it's a bandwidth issue or server issue. -- Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mr_rcollins.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk Fri Feb 20 11:50:19 2009 From: brian at portsmouth-college.ac.uk (Brian Chivers) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:50:19 +0000 Subject: [K12OSN] Using Docks with k12ltsp el5 Message-ID: <499E98FB.4020109@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> I'm trying to make the front end to our thin clients a little "friendlier" for students a bit more like the "easy mode" on EeePC's / Aspire Ones. I know the normal KDE/GNome desktop is easy to use it's just that I'm trying to get the thin clients more accepted by staff more then students as they are all "We MUST have M$Windows) so a pretty front end might help :-) I've had a read about IceWM & Xfce but can't seem to find how ASUS/Acer have done this "Easy Mode", it looks like they have a custom desktop manager :-( So I'm now thinking of some sort of OSX style dock along the bottom with the common apps on it. Looking at the site below I really like the look of Avent Windows Navigator but this requires Compiz & I don't think this works with thin clients :-) so the looking at the simplier ones "Engage Dock" looks nice. http://www.internetling.com/2008/03/24/linux-docks-5-mac-os-x-docks-for-ubuntu-and-other-linux-distros/ Now the question, has anyone experimented with these or this sort of thing for there own thin client roll outs ?? Thanks Brian Portsmouth College ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily the views of Portsmouth College From aahodson at episd.org Fri Feb 20 22:22:10 2009 From: aahodson at episd.org (Alan Hodson) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:22:10 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. Any ideas? Thanks Alan Hodson Instructional Applications Analyst http://links.episd.org/ -=o=- From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 22:40:15 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:40:15 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> Message-ID: At the moment, here in Delaware we are looking at across-the-board 20% budget cuts for everyone. What we are doing at NCS finally got the attention of the new administration and they (Dep Secretary of Education and others) will be visiting soon to see the approach we use (and a big thanks to everyone on this list for helping me get this far) to mitigate those cuts. They can speak with the NCS School Director if they want. He is huge advocate of Opensource and K12LTSP (and has been on several 'blue ribbon' committees wrt education-related initiatives here). NCS has always been rated the top Middle School in Delaware since its inception, and has used Opensource for word processing by students and staff for the last 6 years without any real issues wrt to compatibility. In fact, I have used OO.org to open MS Office files that couldn't be opened by MS Office (which I believe others have done as well). Also, perhaps "culturelly unacceptable" needs to be rephrased "is it then more culturelly acceptable to layoff teachers and staff, cut school programs and otherwise degrade the educational system than even consider moving to an approach that has been shown to work across the US and around the world?" Maybe it is time to put a spotlight on those that have that attitude? David Hopkins Newark Charter School Newark Delaware On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Alan Hodson wrote: > Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. > Any ideas? > Thanks > Alan Hodson > Instructional Applications Analyst > http://links.episd.org/ > -=o=- > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From peter at scheie.homedns.org Sat Feb 21 02:43:03 2009 From: peter at scheie.homedns.org (Peter Scheie) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:43:03 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> Message-ID: <499F6A37.1090205@scheie.homedns.org> For an easy catch-phrase to give to those who think OOo is 'culturally unacceptable', I believe it was Paul Nelson, one of the originators of K12LTSP, who said, "Spend your money on teachers, not software." To do otherwise, in these lean times, I would argue, is scandalous. Peter David Hopkins wrote: > At the moment, here in Delaware we are looking at across-the-board 20% > budget cuts for everyone. What we are doing at NCS finally got the > attention of the new administration and they (Dep Secretary of > Education and others) will be visiting soon to see the approach we use > (and a big thanks to everyone on this list for helping me get this > far) to mitigate those cuts. They can speak with the NCS School > Director if they want. He is huge advocate of Opensource and K12LTSP > (and has been on several 'blue ribbon' committees wrt > education-related initiatives here). NCS has always been rated the > top Middle School in Delaware since its inception, and has used > Opensource for word processing by students and staff for the last 6 > years without any real issues wrt to compatibility. In fact, I have > used OO.org to open MS Office files that couldn't be opened by MS > Office (which I believe others have done as well). > > Also, perhaps "culturelly unacceptable" needs to be rephrased "is it > then more culturelly acceptable to layoff teachers and staff, cut > school programs and otherwise degrade the educational system than even > consider moving to an approach that has been shown to work across the > US and around the world?" Maybe it is time to put a spotlight on those > that have that attitude? > > David Hopkins > Newark Charter School > Newark Delaware > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Alan Hodson wrote: >> Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. >> Any ideas? >> Thanks >> Alan Hodson >> Instructional Applications Analyst >> http://links.episd.org/ >> -=o=- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com Sat Feb 21 01:58:11 2009 From: chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com (Chris Norman) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 01:58:11 -0000 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Google Apps References: <499E1401.6090003@gmail.com> Message-ID: <11EC1BB2F87E4CBDA7A5C5FBB1E2F717@CNorman> Another problem, if such matters are a consideration, they are quite inaccessible to assistive technologies. HTH, Take care, Chris Norman. Email and msn: chris.norman4 at ntlworld.com IChat and Skype: chris.norman7 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Collins" To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [K12OSN] OT: Google Apps > David Hopkins wrote: >> A lot of teachers at our school have discovered Google Apps and are >> pushing it as a replacement for StarOffice because it is web-based, >> allows students to submit documents easier and a whole host of other >> benefits. However, what has also been observed is that the servers >> get very very sluggish once an entire class of students sign in. The >> suspicion is that this is due to Google Apps and Flash? > > Install Google Gears and try out offline mode. At least then you can > figure out if it's a bandwidth issue or server issue. > > -- > Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools > > Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ > > > > __________ NOD32 3869 (20090219) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > __________ NOD32 3869 (20090219) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > From burke at thealmquists.net Sat Feb 21 03:53:52 2009 From: burke at thealmquists.net (Almquist Burke) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:53:52 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <499F6A37.1090205@scheie.homedns.org> References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> <499F6A37.1090205@scheie.homedns.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 20, 2009, at 8:43 PM, Peter Scheie wrote: > For an easy catch-phrase to give to those who think OOo is > 'culturally unacceptable', I believe it was Paul Nelson, one of the > originators of K12LTSP, who said, "Spend your money on teachers, > not software." To do otherwise, in these lean times, I would > argue, is scandalous. > > Peter > One thing to consider, especially if you already have a bunch of existing office licenses, would be to get a subscription to Crossover for linux. IIRC they have pretty good deals for education and thin clients. The CEO Jeremy White actually attended NCLS a couple years ago. > David Hopkins wrote: >> At the moment, here in Delaware we are looking at across-the-board >> 20% >> budget cuts for everyone. What we are doing at NCS finally got the >> attention of the new administration and they (Dep Secretary of >> Education and others) will be visiting soon to see the approach we >> use >> (and a big thanks to everyone on this list for helping me get this >> far) to mitigate those cuts. They can speak with the NCS School >> Director if they want. He is huge advocate of Opensource and K12LTSP >> (and has been on several 'blue ribbon' committees wrt >> education-related initiatives here). NCS has always been rated the >> top Middle School in Delaware since its inception, and has used >> Opensource for word processing by students and staff for the last 6 >> years without any real issues wrt to compatibility. In fact, I have >> used OO.org to open MS Office files that couldn't be opened by MS >> Office (which I believe others have done as well). >> Also, perhaps "culturelly unacceptable" needs to be rephrased "is it >> then more culturelly acceptable to layoff teachers and staff, cut >> school programs and otherwise degrade the educational system than >> even >> consider moving to an approach that has been shown to work across the >> US and around the world?" Maybe it is time to put a spotlight on >> those >> that have that attitude? >> David Hopkins >> Newark Charter School >> Newark Delaware >> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Alan Hodson >> wrote: >>> Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open >>> Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of >>> 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our >>> community of users/believers that has come across data/studies >>> that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, >>> both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, >>> but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, >>> into a document that we can hold up as a banner. >>> Any ideas? >>> Thanks >>> Alan Hodson >>> Instructional Applications Analyst >>> http://links.episd.org/ >>> -=o=- >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkmfetEACgkQxWV7OPa/g5FJQwCeO7sK5MWiOtAUN2aGqh7zWIyB eXIAn1sduB1OHIlv6mq235HeOUcZ2wH2 =3urx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sat Feb 21 14:18:45 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 08:18:45 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches Message-ID: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello List, Has anyone here done any real 'bean counting' studies in regards to how much,if any gains can be had by parallel running cat5e's from switch to switch. In other words running two cat5e's from say the server room switch to a room that gets heavy video use? This would be to use our existing hardware/switches .We currently have GIGE backbone with uplink ports at each 'hallway' switch,from there going into each class room is fed with 10/100 ports. I am guessing bottom line the throughput gain would be very marginal for all the work involved.Also trying to figure out if we was to do this how to conglomerate the second wire with only two uplink ports for each switch? (The second port on each switch feeds down to the next hallway switch).Not all homerun cat5 runs here:( We are fed with one T1 line and a second dsl for teaches/office people's pc's. We have two classrooms that are physically 600ft from the server room but goes through one 'junction hallway' switch so distance is still within reason,but you might know these are the two most used computer labs and sometimes i get complaints of 'being slow'. Just wondering if anyone on list here has done this,and if so,if it was worth the trouble? I have Googled and cant not find any graphs,or anything to document this. Seems odd? Thanks, Barry Cisna From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Feb 21 15:46:25 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:46:25 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches In-Reply-To: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49A021D1.3030202@cmosnetworks.com> Sure, we do this all the time at work. What you're describing has many names--Cisco calls it EtherChannel; everyone else calls it MultiLink or ChannelBonding. We use EtherChannel quite a bit in our data centre. What it does is bond two ports together on a switch to act like a single port. And yes, your bandwidth does double (the overhead is less than 1%). It needs to be configured on both switches, but it's not hard. So, in your situation, you'll go from 1Gbps to 2Gbps. That said.... The channel bonding will double your bandwidth on *that* line, but that's all it will do. If your video server has only a 1Gbps link, then you'll see no throughput increase to that server. On the other hand, if you've got two or three such high-bandwidth servers with (in this example) 1Gbps connections, all of these servers are on one of these two switches, these servers's own links aren't otherwise pegged, *and* all the clients are also on one of these two switches, then yes, you will see a bandwidth increase. Oh, and your servers need to have enough oomph to actually be able to pump that kind of traffic. If you've got only one high-bandwidth server, and its line is pegging, then you would be well advised to put it on a Gig-E MultiLink as well. Linux supports this. In short, you've really got to think about where all your bottlenecks are. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Barry R Cisna wrote: > Hello List, > > Has anyone here done any real 'bean counting' studies in regards to how > much,if any gains can be had by parallel running cat5e's from switch to > switch. In other words running two cat5e's from say the server room > switch to a room that gets heavy video use? This would be to use our > existing hardware/switches .We currently have GIGE backbone with uplink > ports at each 'hallway' switch,from there going into each class room is > fed with 10/100 ports. I am guessing bottom line the throughput gain > would be very marginal for all the work involved.Also trying to figure > out if we was to do this how to conglomerate the second wire with only > two uplink ports for each switch? (The second port on each switch feeds > down to the next hallway switch).Not all homerun cat5 runs here:( > We are fed with one T1 line and a second dsl for teaches/office people's > pc's. > > We have two classrooms that are physically 600ft from the server room > but goes through one 'junction hallway' switch so distance is still > within reason,but you might know these are the two most used computer > labs and sometimes i get complaints of 'being slow'. > Just wondering if anyone on list here has done this,and if so,if it was > worth the trouble? > I have Googled and cant not find any graphs,or anything to document > this. Seems odd? > > Thanks, > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sat Feb 21 15:40:44 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:40:44 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? Message-ID: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Alan, This is always an ongoing struggle,as has been discussed here several times before. I do not have any good links to compare OOo to M$ Off in a school setting.You are on the right track though. I have pitched OOo here to the powers that be. Bottom line I try and tell them ' what are the disadvantages of OOo"? One big selling point to me is the fact that any format of OOo that is used can be transparently saved as a PDF that gives a more finished/professional look right out of the box.Its not rocket science for say the secretaries, or anyone for that matter to do this. If nothing else OOo is worth more than M$Off in this regard. I have found that without a doubt people that has been in teaching 'are set in their ways' ,period! You are asking the world for them to step out of their comfort zone,even if something as menial as what we are discussing here. Second downfall is that the higher ups are impressed,,when things cost lots of money versus free.Never could figure that one out,other than they are pretty simple minded:(. Example: We have to have M$Off+ $$ for licenses,then we buy Adobe CS3 or whatever the topend bulk package is for major $$$$ ++ so much for license for this as well to be able to convert MS docs to pdf's. Really impressive? Does it make you wonder why all state agencies across the country continually operate in the red,,,except for the state of North Dakota> Maybe they are a little too practical! OK I m done b___ch___. Take Care Barry Cisna From mel at melwade.com Sat Feb 21 17:21:04 2009 From: mel at melwade.com (Mel Wade) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 09:21:04 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43080f460902210921j6fa64d6dx7d546db9e5247770@mail.gmail.com> To me the biggest downside of OO is the lack of textbook support. I know there are one or two out there, but not developed to the point of what is available for MS Office. On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Barry R Cisna wrote: > Hi Alan, > > This is always an ongoing struggle,as has been discussed here several > times before. I do not have any good links to compare OOo to M$ Off in a > school setting.You are on the right track though. I have pitched OOo > here to the powers that be. Bottom line I try and tell them ' what are > the disadvantages of OOo"? One big selling point to me is the fact that > any format of OOo that is used can be transparently saved as a PDF that > gives a more finished/professional look right out of the box.Its not > rocket science for say the secretaries, or anyone for that matter to do > this. If nothing else OOo is worth more than M$Off in this regard. > I have found that without a doubt people that has been in teaching 'are > set in their ways' ,period! You are asking the world for them to step > out of their comfort zone,even if something as menial as what we are > discussing here. Second downfall is that the higher ups are > impressed,,when things cost lots of money versus free.Never could figure > that one out,other than they are pretty simple minded:(. > Example: We have to have M$Off+ $$ for licenses,then we buy Adobe CS3 or > whatever the topend bulk package is for major $$$$ ++ so much for > license for this as well to be able to convert MS docs to pdf's. Really > impressive? > Does it make you wonder why all state agencies across the country > continually operate in the red,,,except for the state of North Dakota> > Maybe they are a little too practical! > OK I m done b___ch___. > > Take Care > Barry Cisna > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- Mel Wade "A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams http://www.melwade.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lesmikesell at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 17:23:04 2009 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 11:23:04 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches In-Reply-To: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49A03878.4060603@gmail.com> Barry R Cisna wrote: > > Has anyone here done any real 'bean counting' studies in regards to how > much,if any gains can be had by parallel running cat5e's from switch to > switch. In other words running two cat5e's from say the server room > switch to a room that gets heavy video use? This would be to use our > existing hardware/switches .We currently have GIGE backbone with uplink > ports at each 'hallway' switch,from there going into each class room is > fed with 10/100 ports. I am guessing bottom line the throughput gain > would be very marginal for all the work involved.Also trying to figure > out if we was to do this how to conglomerate the second wire with only > two uplink ports for each switch? (The second port on each switch feeds > down to the next hallway switch).Not all homerun cat5 runs here:( > We are fed with one T1 line and a second dsl for teaches/office people's > pc's. > > We have two classrooms that are physically 600ft from the server room > but goes through one 'junction hallway' switch so distance is still > within reason,but you might know these are the two most used computer > labs and sometimes i get complaints of 'being slow'. > Just wondering if anyone on list here has done this,and if so,if it was > worth the trouble? > I have Googled and cant not find any graphs,or anything to document > this. Seems odd? Switch to switch port groups work with not too much overhead. But before you do the work, set up cacti (or OpenNMS if you are more ambitious) to see if you really are hitting a bottleneck on the existing connections. Cacti is quick and easy to set up - OpenNMS is a more complete monitoring system. Either will give you graphs of bandwidth use on the switches and servers. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Feb 21 21:07:07 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:07:07 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <43080f460902210921j6fa64d6dx7d546db9e5247770@mail.gmail.com> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43080f460902210921j6fa64d6dx7d546db9e5247770@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A06CFB.4010601@cmosnetworks.com> That was also true of MS Office. But schools bought it anyway. I know, I was in school watching them buy it and install it on our computer labs (no textbooks, no classes on it, etc.). You were just expected to "pick it up." And even that's not true regarding OpenOffice.org. There are quite a few books on OO.o. One of the better ones is by Solveig "Ms. OpenOffice" Haugland, called _The OpenOffice.org 2 Guidebook_. http://openoffice.blogs.com/about.html So, that "textbook" excuse is just that, an excuse. And it's incorrect. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Mel Wade wrote: > To me the biggest downside of OO is the lack of textbook support. I > know there are one or two out there, but not developed to the point of > what is available for MS Office. > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Barry R Cisna > wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > This is always an ongoing struggle,as has been discussed here several > times before. I do not have any good links to compare OOo to M$ > Off in a > school setting.You are on the right track though. I have pitched OOo > here to the powers that be. Bottom line I try and tell them ' what are > the disadvantages of OOo"? One big selling point to me is the fact > that > any format of OOo that is used can be transparently saved as a PDF > that > gives a more finished/professional look right out of the box.Its not > rocket science for say the secretaries, or anyone for that matter > to do > this. If nothing else OOo is worth more than M$Off in this regard. > I have found that without a doubt people that has been in teaching > 'are > set in their ways' ,period! You are asking the world for them to step > out of their comfort zone,even if something as menial as what we are > discussing here. Second downfall is that the higher ups are > impressed,,when things cost lots of money versus free.Never could > figure > that one out,other than they are pretty simple minded:(. > Example: We have to have M$Off+ $$ for licenses,then we buy Adobe > CS3 or > whatever the topend bulk package is for major $$$$ ++ so much for > license for this as well to be able to convert MS docs to pdf's. > Really > impressive? > Does it make you wonder why all state agencies across the country > continually operate in the red,,,except for the state of North Dakota> > Maybe they are a little too practical! > OK I m done b___ch___. > > Take Care > Barry Cisna > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > > > -- > Mel Wade > "A common mistake people make when trying to design something > completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete > fools." - Douglas Adams > http://www.melwade.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrjohnlucas at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 21:23:32 2009 From: mrjohnlucas at gmail.com (John Lucas) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:23:32 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Using Docks with k12ltsp el5 In-Reply-To: <499E98FB.4020109@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> References: <499E98FB.4020109@portsmouth-college.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49A070D4.1070408@gmail.com> Brian Chivers wrote: > I'm trying to make the front end to our thin clients a little > "friendlier" for students a bit more like the "easy mode" on EeePC's / > Aspire Ones. I know the normal KDE/GNome desktop is easy to use it's > just that I'm trying to get the thin clients more accepted by staff > more then students as they are all "We MUST have M$Windows) so a > pretty front end might help :-) > > I've had a read about IceWM & Xfce but can't seem to find how > ASUS/Acer have done this "Easy Mode", it looks like they have a custom > desktop manager :-( > > So I'm now thinking of some sort of OSX style dock along the bottom > with the common apps on it. Looking at the site below I really like > the look of Avent Windows Navigator but this requires Compiz & I don't > think this works with thin clients :-) so the looking at the simplier > ones "Engage Dock" looks nice. > > http://www.internetling.com/2008/03/24/linux-docks-5-mac-os-x-docks-for-ubuntu-and-other-linux-distros/ > > > Now the question, has anyone experimented with these or this sort of > thing for there own thin client roll outs ?? > You might want to take a look at the Ubuntu's Gnome "Netbook Remix": http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr It might meet your needs. -- "History doesn't repeat itself; at best it rhymes." - Mark Twain | John Lucas MrJohnLucas at gmail.com | St. Thomas, VI 00802 http://mrjohnlucas.googlepages.com/ | 18.3*N, 65*W AST (UTC-4) From rowens at ptd.net Sat Feb 21 23:04:11 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:04:11 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> Quick anecdote: I introduced OpenOffice to a company I used to work for. Both the R&D Engineer and the VP of Manfacturing claimed they could not "figure it out". The machinists all used it with no problems. Same story with Linux in general. Office staff did not want to even try it. I put it in the cafeteria for the assembly workers to use during break, gave them no instruction, and they used it just fine (they never asked me for help -- not once). -Rob On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:40:44AM -0600, Barry R Cisna wrote: > Hi Alan, > > This is always an ongoing struggle,as has been discussed here several > times before. I do not have any good links to compare OOo to M$ Off in a > school setting.You are on the right track though. I have pitched OOo > here to the powers that be. Bottom line I try and tell them ' what are > the disadvantages of OOo"? One big selling point to me is the fact that > any format of OOo that is used can be transparently saved as a PDF that > gives a more finished/professional look right out of the box.Its not > rocket science for say the secretaries, or anyone for that matter to do > this. If nothing else OOo is worth more than M$Off in this regard. > I have found that without a doubt people that has been in teaching 'are > set in their ways' ,period! You are asking the world for them to step > out of their comfort zone,even if something as menial as what we are > discussing here. Second downfall is that the higher ups are > impressed,,when things cost lots of money versus free.Never could figure > that one out,other than they are pretty simple minded:(. > Example: We have to have M$Off+ $$ for licenses,then we buy Adobe CS3 or > whatever the topend bulk package is for major $$$$ ++ so much for > license for this as well to be able to convert MS docs to pdf's. Really > impressive? > Does it make you wonder why all state agencies across the country > continually operate in the red,,,except for the state of North Dakota> > Maybe they are a little too practical! > OK I m done b___ch___. > > Take Care > Barry Cisna > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From rowens at ptd.net Sat Feb 21 23:09:37 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:09:37 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches In-Reply-To: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090221230937.GC20018@aurora.owens.net> I'm pretty sure that network communications over ethernet only use 2 pairs of wires. There are 4 pairs in Cat5 / Cat5e. The extra pairs are reserved for power over ethernet, and possibly other uses. If all this is true (I'm pretty sure it is, but you should double-check), you could conceivably use your existing wiring and be creative with the terminations so that you get "2 in 1" Cat 5 cable. Just something to think about. I personally consider this a not-so-great idea, although it should work. But breaking the standard is likely to cause confusion somewhere down the line. -Rob On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 08:18:45AM -0600, Barry R Cisna wrote: > Hello List, > > Has anyone here done any real 'bean counting' studies in regards to how > much,if any gains can be had by parallel running cat5e's from switch to > switch. In other words running two cat5e's from say the server room > switch to a room that gets heavy video use? This would be to use our > existing hardware/switches .We currently have GIGE backbone with uplink > ports at each 'hallway' switch,from there going into each class room is > fed with 10/100 ports. I am guessing bottom line the throughput gain > would be very marginal for all the work involved.Also trying to figure > out if we was to do this how to conglomerate the second wire with only > two uplink ports for each switch? (The second port on each switch feeds > down to the next hallway switch).Not all homerun cat5 runs here:( > We are fed with one T1 line and a second dsl for teaches/office people's > pc's. > > We have two classrooms that are physically 600ft from the server room > but goes through one 'junction hallway' switch so distance is still > within reason,but you might know these are the two most used computer > labs and sometimes i get complaints of 'being slow'. > Just wondering if anyone on list here has done this,and if so,if it was > worth the trouble? > I have Googled and cant not find any graphs,or anything to document > this. Seems odd? > > Thanks, > Barry Cisna > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From burke at thealmquists.net Sun Feb 22 01:41:55 2009 From: burke at thealmquists.net (Almquist Burke) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:41:55 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches In-Reply-To: <20090221230937.GC20018@aurora.owens.net> References: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230937.GC20018@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <2798DA12-0A9F-4E76-8823-9560F65B9420@thealmquists.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 21, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Rob Owens wrote: > I'm pretty sure that network communications over ethernet only use > 2 pairs of wires. There are 4 pairs in Cat5 / Cat5e. Actually, 1000Base-T gigabit ethernet does use all 4 pairs. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkmgrWMACgkQxWV7OPa/g5H4JwCePStIu90XzpDX1WY2xKDSIh5T g2kAn17hgj/KdD9ji9K2wF/BN2npxZz7 =XL5/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pnelson.k12 at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 02:13:35 2009 From: pnelson.k12 at gmail.com (Paul Nelson) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:13:35 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> Message-ID: <508f42dc0902211813t6cff1416qd445bd4c777a66d6@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Alan Hodson wrote: > Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. > Any ideas? > Thanks > Alan Hodson There are lots of good reasons to use OpenOffice. Sometimes though you need to move forward with a pilot project first. Get some open minded folks to give it a try and then use the data to decide what to do next. One of the strongest points is being able to send home with students, a CD with the same software they have at school. When you decide to use a proprietary software, you deny that software to all of your students and families in your community. When you choose an open solution you make a gift to all your users. The kinds of software where open source has great solutions are often generic software packages. These days, word processing is not rocket science. A generic solution works just fine. Once this is established then it becomes an ethical decision when spending tax money on software. Public servants are required to spend tax dollars wisely. To spend money needlessly on software when there is an acceptable free solution is a violation of public trust. And... yes, I'd rather have an art teacher than expensive software I don't need. ;-) Paul From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 03:11:45 2009 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 22:11:45 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> Rob Owens wrote: > I introduced OpenOffice to a company I used to work for. Both the > R&D Engineer and the VP of Manfacturing claimed they could not > "figure it out". The machinists all used it with no problems. > > Same story with Linux in general. Office staff did not want to even > try it. I put it in the cafeteria for the assembly workers to use > during break, gave them no instruction, and they used it just fine > (they never asked me for help -- not once). I have found that the acceptance rate goes up when you tell them it's the upgrade to Windows/MS Office. Rename the menu items to Microsoft Word/Excel, etc, use IceWM and use the XP Silver theme. I did the same with Firefox when I started to phase it in, I changed the icon to the IE e and the name to Internet Explorer. Once they start using it, then you can slowly work with them to understand Open Source. -- Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mr_rcollins.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From robark at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 04:01:47 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:01:47 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/2/21 Ryan Collins : > I have found that the acceptance rate goes up when you tell them it's the > upgrade to Windows/MS Office. Rename the menu items to Microsoft Word/Excel, > etc, use IceWM and use the XP Silver theme. > > I did the same with Firefox when I started to phase it in, I changed the > icon to the IE e and the name to Internet Explorer. > > Once they start using it, then you can slowly work with them to understand > Open Source. you did see this right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPIgEFIv5MI -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sun Feb 22 05:46:56 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:46:56 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches In-Reply-To: <20090221230937.GC20018@aurora.owens.net> References: <1235225925.21148.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230937.GC20018@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <49A0E6D0.3070801@cmosnetworks.com> Unless you're running Gig-E across that Cat 5/5e. Then it's all four pairs. Don't try playing monkey-business with your cabling. Stick with the spec. Really. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Rob Owens wrote: > I'm pretty sure that network communications over ethernet only use 2 pairs of wires. There are 4 pairs in Cat5 / Cat5e. The extra pairs are reserved for power over ethernet, and possibly other uses. If all this is true (I'm pretty sure it is, but you should double-check), you could conceivably use your existing wiring and be creative with the terminations so that you get "2 in 1" Cat 5 cable. > > Just something to think about. I personally consider this a not-so-great idea, although it should work. But breaking the standard is likely to cause confusion somewhere down the line. > > -Rob > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 08:18:45AM -0600, Barry R Cisna wrote: > >> Hello List, >> >> Has anyone here done any real 'bean counting' studies in regards to how >> much,if any gains can be had by parallel running cat5e's from switch to >> switch. In other words running two cat5e's from say the server room >> switch to a room that gets heavy video use? This would be to use our >> existing hardware/switches .We currently have GIGE backbone with uplink >> ports at each 'hallway' switch,from there going into each class room is >> fed with 10/100 ports. I am guessing bottom line the throughput gain >> would be very marginal for all the work involved.Also trying to figure >> out if we was to do this how to conglomerate the second wire with only >> two uplink ports for each switch? (The second port on each switch feeds >> down to the next hallway switch).Not all homerun cat5 runs here:( >> We are fed with one T1 line and a second dsl for teaches/office people's >> pc's. >> >> We have two classrooms that are physically 600ft from the server room >> but goes through one 'junction hallway' switch so distance is still >> within reason,but you might know these are the two most used computer >> labs and sometimes i get complaints of 'being slow'. >> Just wondering if anyone on list here has done this,and if so,if it was >> worth the trouble? >> I have Googled and cant not find any graphs,or anything to document >> this. Seems odd? >> >> Thanks, >> Barry Cisna >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Feb 22 13:51:22 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 07:51:22 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? Message-ID: <1235310682.20889.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ryan, Good Idea! A nice 'workaround' so everyone sees the OOo as M$ Off 'transparently'!:). Why didn't I think of that? May do exactly that over summer.A new upgrade for everyone. I may tell them it cost $1mil to make this happen and then they will really take an interest to it,especially the higher ups, as saying 'free' everyone turns a deaf ear to anything I have found :-) Barry From robert.pogson at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 14:24:16 2009 From: robert.pogson at gmail.com (robert pogson) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 08:24:16 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out RE: OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases there? Message-ID: <6e87faa70902220624o7693e925r2c10392147681b06@mail.gmail.com> Search the web for " Study on the: Economic impact of open source software on innovation and the competitiveness of the Information and Communication Technologies (ICT) sector in the EU " see http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/ict/policy/doc/2006-11-20-flossimpact.pdf They have done their homework: " Another crucial perspective of this study is the focus on the use of tools for office automation. Many of the known studies refer mainly to operating systems and often to back office migration. In our study we mainly monitored largely distributed software used on clients as the office suites. Thus, we were able to really test the impact of the new technology on non-expert end-users. More than 6000 PCs were migrated to OpenOffice.org. A comparative use of two Microsoft Office and OpenOffice.org suites has been performed after a period of training to reach to same knowledge of the previous office solution. " ... " For the new open solution savings have been computed by predicting on the initial first year of ownership and historical data - as the five-year period of ownership for FLOSS software has not been reached yet. All organizations report significant initial savings due to the zero cost of licenses. In the long term the profit is not that obvious: SGV, BH, Extremadura, TO predict to gain with the new solution. SK predicted equal costs for the new and the old solution whereas PP reports of higher costs with the new open solution in the long terms (see the section on the Province of Pisa). We also investigated the productivity of the employees in using Microsoft office and OpenOffice.org. Office suites are widely used and are a good test bed and representative for a comparison on issues like effort and time spent in the daily routine of work. Delays in the task deliveries may have a bigger impact than costs on the organization's management. Our findings report no particular delays or lost of time in the daily work due to the use of OpenOffice.org. The results of this time-use analysis has show that no statistically significant variation in productivity measured in number of document processed per day and average effort per document has been found over a period of 32 weeks between two randomised groups of users, one to whom OpenOffice was introduced, and one that kept using Microsoft Office. This is perhaps surprising, since users were not previously familiar with OpenOffice. Indeed, the group of users was also asked whether as a result of the experimentation they thought they could do with OpenOffice the same amount of work they could do with Microsoft Office. As shown in Figure 46, under 10% of respondents thought they could not, more than 20% thought they definitely could perform as well with OpenOffice, while almost 60% thought they could be as productive with OpenOffice (as confirmed by the time-use analysis) though with some problems. Given their previous lack of experience with OpenOffice the fact that problems were subjectively perceived is unsurprising, but the fact that objectively the productivity of users remained the same and did not reduce is important. " I have used that as good evidence that OOO is suitable for education. In particular, students benefit by having a somewhat simpler office suite. It makes learning/master faster and easier. In education, we often use .PDF for distributing curriculum, reports and so on because it is cross-platform. That OOO can produce PDF is one of its best selling points, IMHO. If the boss tells you that Office needs to be used because users are "familiar", show him the cursed ribbon of '2007 ... I do not know anyone who is familiar with the older product that likes that change. On Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:22:10 -0700 "Alan Hodson" wrote: "Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. Any ideas?" -- Robert Pogson Have server, will travel... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill at funnymonkey.com Sun Feb 22 15:17:22 2009 From: bill at funnymonkey.com (Bill Fitzgerald) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 07:17:22 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> Message-ID: <49A16C82.6070009@funnymonkey.com> This page from the OpenOffice wiki lists major deployments internationally: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Major_OpenOffice.org_Deployments Cheers, Bill Alan Hodson wrote: > Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. > Any ideas? > Thanks > Alan Hodson > Instructional Applications Analyst > http://links.episd.org/ > -=o=- > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > -- Bill Fitzgerald http://funnymonkey.com FunnyMonkey -- Click. Connect. Learn. ph. 503 897 7160 From accessys at smart.net Sun Feb 22 16:43:13 2009 From: accessys at smart.net (Accessys@smart.net) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:43:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <49A16C82.6070009@funnymonkey.com> References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> <49A16C82.6070009@funnymonkey.com> Message-ID: "culturally unacceptable" what the heck does that mean in English??? Bob On Sun, 22 Feb 2009, Bill Fitzgerald wrote: > This page from the OpenOffice wiki lists major deployments internationally: > > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Major_OpenOffice.org_Deployments > > Cheers, > > Bill > > Alan Hodson wrote: > > Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks > > Alan Hodson > > Instructional Applications Analyst > > http://links.episd.org/ > > -=o=- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > > > > > > -- > > Bill Fitzgerald > http://funnymonkey.com > FunnyMonkey -- Click. Connect. Learn. > ph. 503 897 7160 > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > - end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named From accessys at smart.net Sun Feb 22 16:50:19 2009 From: accessys at smart.net (Accessys@smart.net) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 11:50:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <508f42dc0902211813t6cff1416qd445bd4c777a66d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> <508f42dc0902211813t6cff1416qd445bd4c777a66d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: also buried in section 508 of the rehab act I believe is the requirement that if you require a certain software package in a gov funded program (such as education) then every person required to have that software must be provided it at no cost. Bob On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, Paul Nelson wrote: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Alan Hodson wrote: > > Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks > > Alan Hodson > > There are lots of good reasons to use OpenOffice. Sometimes though you > need to move forward with a pilot project first. Get some open minded > folks to give it a try and then use the data to decide what to do > next. > > One of the strongest points is being able to send home with students, > a CD with the same software they have at school. When you decide to > use a proprietary software, you deny that software to all of your > students and families in your community. When you choose an open > solution you make a gift to all your users. > > The kinds of software where open source has great solutions are often > generic software packages. These days, word processing is not rocket > science. A generic solution works just fine. Once this is established > then it becomes an ethical decision when spending tax money on > software. Public servants are required to spend tax dollars wisely. To > spend money needlessly on software when there is an acceptable free > solution is a violation of public trust. > > And... yes, I'd rather have an art teacher than expensive software I don't need. > > ;-) Paul > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > - end ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ occasionally a true patriot must defend his country from its' government +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ASCII Ribbon Campaign. . . . . . . . . . . . accessBob .NO HTML/PDF/RTF/MIME in e-mail. . . . . . . accessys at smartnospam.net .NO MSWord docs in e-mail . . . .. . . . . . Access Systems, engineers .NO attachments in e-mail, .*LINUX powered*. access is a civil right *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named From robark at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 18:10:33 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:10:33 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Alan Hodson wrote: > Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. > Any ideas? Most teachers are overworked. They don't want to develop new resources. That's why when new software is presented it has to come with resources. Like this http://documentation.openoffice.org/conceptualguide/index.html -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Feb 22 19:17:29 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:17:29 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Google Earth on V5 K12LTSP? Message-ID: <1235330249.10117.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello List, Just curious if anyone on list has had any luck realistically running Google Earth on V5 K12Linux? I installed GEv.5 on our EL5 server (one of them) and the performance is the same as last release of G E.If you have G E running decently could you list what your specs are for server and TC's and backbone,etc? I just wonder what it takes to make this happen,if possible on TC's. I know GE really racks even a decent fat client box to get it loaded. Thanks, Barry From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Feb 22 19:51:07 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:51:07 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches Message-ID: <1235332267.15259.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello List, I forgot to mention in my initial post,that these switches are unmanaged switches. AKA plug'n play. 26port 24-10/100 + two GIGE uplink. I am guessing I am SOL seeing how these can not be 'multilinked'? Maybe time for some new managed switches,ay. Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Barry From ahodson at elp.rr.com Sun Feb 22 19:58:36 2009 From: ahodson at elp.rr.com (Alan Hodson) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:58:36 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: References: <20090220170048.21A4961B529@hormel.redhat.com> <499ECA9D.61E2.006C.0@episd.org> Message-ID: <49A1AE6C.1050200@elp.rr.com> Very good responses and documentation - this should be easy URL for all of us to remember: http://tinyurl.com/OpenOffice-docs Thanks everybody - this seems to be an issue that covers the full range of emotions - decision makers need to know there is support, the apps are robust, and the cost (especially in these trying times) is correct. Now, if I could physically "lend an ear"... Cheers Alan -=o=- Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Alan Hodson wrote: >> Having just heard at the highest level in my district that Open Office is "culturally unacceptable here" (border district of 63,000 students) I am wondering if there is someone in our community of users/believers that has come across data/studies that I could use disprove the MS ethos - I know than in Texas, both PlanoISD and SanAntonioISD are huge open source supporters, but I don't know if that has translated there, or anywhere else, into a document that we can hold up as a banner. >> Any ideas? > > Most teachers are overworked. They don't want to develop new > resources. That's why when new software is presented it has to come > with resources. Like this > > http://documentation.openoffice.org/conceptualguide/index.html > From jthomas at bittware.com Sun Feb 22 20:01:31 2009 From: jthomas at bittware.com (j.w. thomas) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:01:31 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A1AF1B.8060102@bittware.com> Ryan Collins wrote: > I have found that the acceptance rate goes up when you tell them it's > the upgrade to Windows/MS Office. Rename the menu items to Microsoft > Word/Excel, etc, use IceWM and use the XP Silver theme. > > I did the same with Firefox when I started to phase it in, I changed the > icon to the IE e and the name to Internet Explorer. > > Once they start using it, then you can slowly work with them to > understand Open Source. I would urge caution when it comes to knowingly making false claims. OOo is NOT Office, and if you say that it is and the truth eventually comes out, you have just thrown away your credibility. It may seem expedient, but sometimes expediency comes at a cost. -- Jim Thomas Principal Applications Engineer Bittware, Inc jthomas at bittware.com http://www.bittware.com (603) 226-0404 x536 The sooner you get behind, the more time you'll have to catch up From bill at funnymonkey.com Mon Feb 23 00:10:52 2009 From: bill at funnymonkey.com (Bill Fitzgerald) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:10:52 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <49A1AF1B.8060102@bittware.com> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> <49A1AF1B.8060102@bittware.com> Message-ID: <49A1E98C.5060806@funnymonkey.com> j.w. thomas wrote: > Ryan Collins wrote: > > I have found that the acceptance rate goes up when you tell them it's >> the upgrade to Windows/MS Office. Rename the menu items to Microsoft >> Word/Excel, etc, use IceWM and use the XP Silver theme. >> >> I did the same with Firefox when I started to phase it in, I changed >> the icon to the IE e and the name to Internet Explorer. >> >> Once they start using it, then you can slowly work with them to >> understand Open Source. > > I would urge caution when it comes to knowingly making false claims. > OOo is NOT Office, and if you say that it is and the truth eventually > comes out, you have just thrown away your credibility. > > It may seem expedient, but sometimes expediency comes at a cost. > As much as I like OOo, and want to see it adopted as widely as possible, bending the truth is not the way to go. Let's leave that to the vendors of proprietary software :) Cheers, Bill -- Bill Fitzgerald http://funnymonkey.com FunnyMonkey -- Click. Connect. Learn. ph. 503 897 7160 From corycartwright at sbcglobal.net Mon Feb 23 00:54:04 2009 From: corycartwright at sbcglobal.net (Cory Cartwright) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:54:04 -0500 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches In-Reply-To: <1235332267.15259.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235332267.15259.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1235350445.31790.5.camel@localhost> I apologize if you have already gotten or know the answer. You are talking about an ether channel and I don't believe an unmanaged switch would support that. What it would probably support is a (STP) spanning tree protocol. With STP one link would would be placed in a blocking state while the other in a forwarding state, this provides redundancy but not increased bandwidth. On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 13:51 -0600, Barry R Cisna wrote: > Hello List, > > I forgot to mention in my initial post,that these switches are unmanaged > switches. AKA plug'n play. 26port 24-10/100 + two GIGE uplink. I am > guessing I am SOL seeing how these can not be 'multilinked'? > Maybe time for some new managed switches,ay. > > Thanks for the suggestions everyone. > > Barry > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From microman at cmosnetworks.com Mon Feb 23 04:56:10 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:56:10 -0500 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [K12OSN] OT: parallel running cat5e to switches In-Reply-To: <1235350445.31790.5.camel@localhost> References: <1235332267.15259.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1235350445.31790.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <49A22C6A.20807@cmosnetworks.com> Typically, unmanaged switches don't even support STP. This is because STP allows you to change some of the parameters--Fast Learning / PortFast, whether you're running "traditional" STP or "rapid" STP, and so on. What would very likely happen is a loop...which would bring down that entire bridged segment. You really need managed switches to do this. Have you done a bandwidth analysis to see just where your bottleneck is? --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Cory Cartwright wrote: > I apologize if you have already gotten or know the answer. You are > talking about an ether channel and I don't believe an unmanaged switch > would support that. What it would probably support is a (STP) spanning > tree protocol. With STP one link would would be placed in a blocking > state while the other in a forwarding state, this provides redundancy > but not increased bandwidth. > > > > On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 13:51 -0600, Barry R Cisna wrote: > >> Hello List, >> >> I forgot to mention in my initial post,that these switches are unmanaged >> switches. AKA plug'n play. 26port 24-10/100 + two GIGE uplink. I am >> guessing I am SOL seeing how these can not be 'multilinked'? >> Maybe time for some new managed switches,ay. >> >> Thanks for the suggestions everyone. >> >> Barry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Mon Feb 23 04:59:28 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:59:28 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <49A1E98C.5060806@funnymonkey.com> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> <49A1AF1B.8060102@bittware.com> <49A1E98C.5060806@funnymonkey.com> Message-ID: <49A22D30.20707@cmosnetworks.com> _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! Bill Fitzgerald wrote: > j.w. thomas wrote: >> Ryan Collins wrote: >> > I have found that the acceptance rate goes up when you tell them it's >>> the upgrade to Windows/MS Office. Rename the menu items to Microsoft >>> Word/Excel, etc, use IceWM and use the XP Silver theme. >>> >>> I did the same with Firefox when I started to phase it in, I changed >>> the icon to the IE e and the name to Internet Explorer. >>> >>> Once they start using it, then you can slowly work with them to >>> understand Open Source. >> >> I would urge caution when it comes to knowingly making false claims. >> OOo is NOT Office, and if you say that it is and the truth eventually >> comes out, you have just thrown away your credibility. >> >> It may seem expedient, but sometimes expediency comes at a cost. >> > As much as I like OOo, and want to see it adopted as widely as > possible, bending the truth is not the way to go. > > Let's leave that to the vendors of proprietary software :) > I agree. "Little white lies" ultimately won't do it. What needs to happen is that school board meetings need to be attended, and *parents* need to be asking these school board members what their plans are for OpenOffice deployment. These parents need to press the issue and make it a voting issue. Only when politicians fear for their jobs do they get on the stick. --TP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 14:20:35 2009 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:20:35 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A2B0B3.3080808@gmail.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > 2009/2/21 Ryan Collins : >> I have found that the acceptance rate goes up when you tell them it's the >> upgrade to Windows/MS Office. Rename the menu items to Microsoft Word/Excel, >> etc, use IceWM and use the XP Silver theme. > > you did see this right? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPIgEFIv5MI That's awesome, I'm bookmarking it right now. :-) I can't believe they didn't have at least one person recognize it for what it was. -- Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mr_rcollins.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mr.rcollins at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 14:23:29 2009 From: mr.rcollins at gmail.com (Ryan Collins) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:23:29 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? In-Reply-To: <49A22D30.20707@cmosnetworks.com> References: <1235230844.21148.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090221230411.GB20018@aurora.owens.net> <49A0C271.8050108@gmail.com> <49A1AF1B.8060102@bittware.com> <49A1E98C.5060806@funnymonkey.com> <49A22D30.20707@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <49A2B161.4000506@gmail.com> Terrell Prud? Jr. wrote: > I agree. "Little white lies" ultimately won't do it. What needs to > happen is that school board meetings need to be attended, and *parents* > need to be asking these school board members what their plans are for > OpenOffice deployment. These parents need to press the issue and make > it a voting issue. Only when politicians fear for their jobs do they > get on the stick. I should've placed a little more "tongue in cheek" when I said that. I tell them pretty quickly that it is in fact not MS Office or Firefox. I'm lucky to be in a position where the BOE and Supt. trust my judgment and no one is dictating any particular piece of software. I even have a board member who was already using OOo. -- Ryan Collins - Technology Coordinator - Kenton City Schools Blog: http://ryancollins.org/wp/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mr_rcollins.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From massonpj at delhi.edu Mon Feb 23 17:00:42 2009 From: massonpj at delhi.edu (massonpj at delhi.edu) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:00:42 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: any OpenOffice vs. MS Office studies/cases out there? Message-ID: I took Ryan's comment for what it was, more of a statement expressing a frustration with a software evaluation process that relies more on tradition and perception than criteria and metrics. Almost three years ago I installed SUSE Linux, replacing Windows, on my laptop to the chagrin (and dire warnings) of my IT staff. My interests were to provide a proof of concept and a reference model for Linux Desktop. What I discovered, anecdotally, was interesting. While at the EDUCUASE National Conference I tried a little experiment (albeit, noon-scientific). Whenever I introduced my desktop to colleagues, and referenced SLED, the conversations focused on the typical (traditional?) issues raised with open source: support, quality, TCO, etc. However if I introduced the same SLED environment as a test version of Vista (remember this is 2+ years ago), the focus of the conversion remained on the operating system's features and functionality not its development methodology: everyone loved the cube, the search, even the ripple effect. I would put forth that in both cases (SLED or Vista) the evaluation criteria should be the same. What is the SLA offered to your institution from Microsoft? What is the TCO with a Windows environment? And also, what are the new features and functionality that might impact users? So to Ryan's point, I think we do ourselves a disservice by promoting open source, rather than promoting the applications (please do not infer that I think this group or anyone on this thread is doing so). What, for example, was the threshold for organizations to switch from Word Perfect to Word, from Eudora to Outlook, from Mac's to PC's, and maybe now back again? Why do folks use Firefox rather than IE, or more specifically Google rather than Yahoo? While I firmly believe the open source development process yields better software, far more than lower costs, such as more features, faster pace of development, fewer bugs, etc., introducing a development and licensing model into the discussion may be analogous to introducing the programming language the project was built in, "Java is better than PHP, so Sakai is better than Moodle." Like the development methodology itself, open source adoption will excel due to transparent, bottom-up, incremental and emergent processes rather than the top-down, centralized approach traditionally seen within hierarchical organizations. The deployment of open source in our data centers is a good example. Obviously there is a larger user base with desktop tools, and thus "co-developers" who want to participate probably because they can touch the software, however I cannot recall hearing of any executive directives from any public institution/organization that mandated open source in the data center, so I would not expect to hear of one for the desktop either. Rather than trying to force the adoption through traditional initiative-based approaches that have led us to "enterprise resource planning," I would recommend a emergent process where open source options are introduced as changes in the ecosystem offer opportunities. I like the idea of providing students with OO on a USB drive. On our own campus, this would provide us not only a way to get OO into the "culture" but also increase the adoption of other tools (anti-virus, email, etc.) that we already deploy to students. We have adopted Moodle for our LMS, not as a top-down initiative from the CIO or Provost, but through a formal evaluation process. We are moving to thin clients and netbooks for our remote faculty, not as a system-wide initiative, but as replacements in our academic labs and administrative offices through our traditional replacement cycle. We are moving email to Zimbra as Domino Webmail retires, beginning with Alumni, then students and maybe staff. All of these processes mirror the reality of (successful) deployments were technology is introduced at the same pace as users can articulate needs. I think we are much farther along than even a year ago and am impressed by the effort. Best of luck, Patrick Patrick Masson Chief Information Officer 331B Bush Hall State University of New York College of Technology at Delhi Delhi, New York 13753 Office: 607-746-4670 Fax: 607-746-4300 Email: massonpj at delhi.edu AIM: uclasunydelhi I should've placed a little more "tongue in cheek" when I said that. I tell them pretty quickly that it is in fact not MS Office or Firefox. I'm lucky to be in a position where the BOE and Supt. trust my judgment and no one is dictating any particular piece of software. I even have a board member who was already using OOo. From jim.c.christiansen at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 17:22:18 2009 From: jim.c.christiansen at gmail.com (Jim Christiansen) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:22:18 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is K12LTSP at? Message-ID: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> With a subject like the one above a person could get riled up pretty good. Not what is intended- I've been using K12LTSP in our high school for 6 or 7 years. Just how long I'm not too sure. I was alway reading every single post for the first 4 or 5 years but was never one to often lend technical answers. Others here just had more skill. I'm a full time teacher and just kept busy with the extra 3 K12 servers, 90 clients and another 12 or so servers... Now that K12LTSP 5 based on Centos has come out the list has slowed down it seems. I still see Rob O and others here, David H I see in my google contacts, but I don't know where others like Eric are or if they are still involved with K12LTSP. Fedora LTSP is out and I wonder if some of the skilled users have moved over or have they stopped using LTSP all toegther? I'm hesitant to make a switch as the Centos5 based K12LTSP seems to be the most stable to date, easy to install and configure. Are there plans for an EL6 based K12LTSP to be released? I'm not clear on what Warren T's efforts are aimed at. I hesitate to put the current into a production environment with such a short life cycle. I did read 1/2 year ago or so about future possible builds into EL. It may have been Warren's writing. What I'm doing is getting ready for the next change up. Thinking ahead and starting to look at what may be involved for a change. How long do you all plan to remain with the K12LTSP5? Regards, Jim C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rowens at ptd.net Mon Feb 23 19:21:08 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:21:08 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is K12LTSP at? In-Reply-To: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090223192108.GB26900@aurora.owens.net> If you're looking for something longer life than Fedora / LTSP 5, you could try Debian Lenny or Ubuntu Hardy, both with LTSP 5. Or you could stick with CentOS / LTSP 4.2. I know there's also an OpenSuse implementation of LTSP 5, but I don't know much about that distribution or its life cycle. Somewhere on the LTSP wiki I think there are instructions for how to use an Ubuntu-based chroot environment on any other distro. There's a guy on the ltsp-discuss list who uses LTSP 5 on CentOS in this way. -Rob On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 10:22:18AM -0700, Jim Christiansen wrote: > With a subject like the one above a person could get riled up pretty good. > Not what is intended- > > I've been using K12LTSP in our high school for 6 or 7 years. Just how long > I'm not too sure. I was alway reading every single post for the first 4 or > 5 years but was never one to often lend technical answers. Others here just > had more skill. I'm a full time teacher and just kept busy with the extra 3 > K12 servers, 90 clients and another 12 or so servers... > > Now that K12LTSP 5 based on Centos has come out the list has slowed down it > seems. I still see Rob O and others here, David H I see in my google > contacts, but I don't know where others like Eric are or if they are still > involved with K12LTSP. > > Fedora LTSP is out and I wonder if some of the skilled users have moved over > or have they stopped using LTSP all toegther? I'm hesitant to make a switch > as the Centos5 based K12LTSP seems to be the most stable to date, easy to > install and configure. > > Are there plans for an EL6 based K12LTSP to be released? I'm not clear on > what Warren T's efforts are aimed at. I hesitate to put the current into a > production environment with such a short life cycle. I did read 1/2 year > ago or so about future possible builds into EL. It may have been Warren's > writing. > > What I'm doing is getting ready for the next change up. Thinking ahead and > starting to look at what may be involved for a change. How long do you all > plan to remain with the K12LTSP5? > > Regards, Jim C > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Feb 24 17:24:01 2009 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:24:01 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is K12LTSP at? In-Reply-To: <20090223192108.GB26900@aurora.owens.net> References: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> <20090223192108.GB26900@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <49A42D31.3030603@redhat.com> Rob Owens wrote: > If you're looking for something longer life than Fedora / LTSP 5, you > could try Debian Lenny or Ubuntu Hardy, both with LTSP 5. Or you > could stick with CentOS / LTSP 4.2. I know there's also an OpenSuse > implementation of LTSP 5, but I don't know much about that > distribution or its life cycle. http://k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page "K12LTSP is considered to be LEGACY software that is usable with old hardware until CentOS5 support ends in the year 2014. If you need modern LTSP 5.x features or modern client hardware, then you will want to use K12Linux.org." K12LTSP EL5 uses the ancient LTSP-4.2. This is beneficial in that you get security updates for the server and desktop applications on the server until the year 2014. Ubuntu and Debian releases do not last nearly *that* long. The other benefit of K12LTSP EL5 is it works with more ancient client hardware due its ancient version of X and kernel. This is also a detriment though... because lots of modern client hardware will not work at all. K12Linux F10 has the benefit of modern LTSP5 features like sound, local storage devices, local apps support, and modern X allows modern client hardware to work. The drawbacks however are: * Modern X broke some older client hardware. These are upstream x.org bugs. They will only be fixed if people take the time to file the bugs upstream instead of just complain about them. I personally don't have time nor hardware to work on this. I have a dozen different modern thin clients of AMD Geode, VIA, Intel and Radeon chipsets and they all work great with K12Linux. * It needs more RAM on the client, at least 128MB to be safe. * Support ends early 2010. The support problem isn't too bad. Just use K12Linux F10 until K12Linux EL6 (RHEL6 + EPEL6) is out. Then upgrade once into that version which will be supported for many years thereafter. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com > > Somewhere on the LTSP wiki I think there are instructions for how to > use an Ubuntu-based chroot environment on any other distro. There's > a guy on the ltsp-discuss list who uses LTSP 5 on CentOS in this way. From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 18:21:07 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:21:07 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Educational Software via Yum for fedora? Message-ID: Hello, I hope everyone is doing well. I have a clean installation of K12Linux (based on Fedora 10) and I was looking for those educational programs that used to come with the previous versions of LTSP (it used to be called "edutainment"). When I tried 'Yum groupinstall "Educational Software" ' I get "No packages in any requested group available to install or update" even though yum grouplist shows it as a possible group to install? What am I doing wrong? Thank you Joseph From dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us Tue Feb 24 18:28:11 2009 From: dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us (Dan Young) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:28:11 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] Educational Software via Yum for fedora? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <994441ae0902241028v433682d9q9cb4f2c06f803630@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Joseph Bishay wrote: > I have a clean installation of K12Linux (based on Fedora 10) and I was > looking for those educational programs that used to come with the > previous versions of LTSP (it used to be called "edutainment"). > When I tried 'Yum groupinstall "Educational Software" ' I get "No > packages in any requested group available to install or update" even > though yum grouplist shows it as a possible group to install? None of the "Educational Software" packages are "mandatory" when installing the group, i.e. installing a group doesn't necessarily install all packages that are members of the group. In this case it installs _none_ of the group member packages. You can list them with: yum groupinfo "Educational Software" and install them by hand, or go to System -> Administration -> Add/Remove Software and use the PackageKit GUI to add them. -- Dan Young Multnomah ESD - Technology Services 503-257-1562 From lmowery at tech.washk12.org Tue Feb 24 18:59:21 2009 From: lmowery at tech.washk12.org (Lee Mowery) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:59:21 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] PPC iMAC k12linux from Fedora10 Message-ID: <73a04be80902241059k2c477e0ey6a209af9a389fcd5@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have a fully updated k12llinux F10. My thin client i386 machines are working flawlessly. Easy. I followed the instructions to get PPC computers to boot. which included editing '/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ethX' to add *BRIDGE=ltspbr0. *I also followed this guide: ( https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/PPCClientHOWTO) and downloaded"ppc-client-chroot-f10-20090109.tar.bz2." It said to "tar xfvj /tmp/ppc-date.tar.bz2", but that didn't do anything. So I "tar xfvj /tmp/ppc-client-chroot-f10-20090109.tar.bz2" However, when I am on my old iMac indigo and hold down the "n" key during boot, it just takes me to the yaboot manager with options to boot to hard disc or cdrom. I have tried "enet::172.31.100.254, but it says "Pleas wait, loading kernel... *Can't read Elf e_ident/e_type/emachine info*." I don't get the emachine info, since this is an imac indigo. Any ideas on how I can get this to boot? Am I putting in the wrong command? Is there a file I need to edit? I am really frustrated but need to get thisto work because of budgeting. We have 10+ unused labs of iMacss that we can't replace because of budget. Thank you. Note: I am windows and network savvy, but I know nothing of MACS and little of GNU/Linux. -- Lee Mowery (Applications Specialist) Washington County School District lmowery at tech.washk12.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Feb 24 19:18:05 2009 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:18:05 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] PPC iMAC k12linux from Fedora10 In-Reply-To: <73a04be80902241059k2c477e0ey6a209af9a389fcd5@mail.gmail.com> References: <73a04be80902241059k2c477e0ey6a209af9a389fcd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A447ED.8030002@redhat.com> Why did you spam all lists with the same posts? Here is the reply that I sent to you directly. It sounds like it successfully downloaded yaboot, but I'm guessing some configuration setting in your firmware doesn't know how to go further to download the kernel over the network. I really don't know much about PPC and openfirmware. https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/PPCClientHOWTO Did you follow the instructions here? (especially the part about unpacking that tarball in the proper location and running ltsp-update-kernels) I know nothing beyond this for PPC. I only got it working on a few PPC machines lying around in my office. Beyond that I cannot put any more time into this. You could try to get help from people in #fedora-ppc on irc.freenode.net. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From robark at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 19:39:34 2009 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:39:34 -0800 Subject: [K12OSN] Red Hat acquires Qumranet's desktop virtualization Message-ID: How does Red Hat acquiring Qumranet (SolidICE, SPICE desktop virtualization) affect K12Linux? Are there plans for parts of this technology to eventually become part of K12Linux? http://www.redhat.com/promo/qumranet/ "Qumranet also developed SolidICE, a high-performance, scalable, desktop virtualization solution built specifically for virtual desktops, not simply a retrofit from server virtualization solutions. SolidICE is designed to enable a user's Windows or Linux desktop to run in a virtual machine that is hosted on a central server. It is based on the industry-leading Simple Protocol for Independent Computing Environments (SPICE) protocol, which overcomes key barriers to VDI adoption, including a superior user experience enabled by the SPICE protocol capabilities. SolidICE offers superiority over competition in three aspects: A user experience indistinguishable from a physical PC (Windows and Linux desktops) via the SPICE remote rendering technology 3-5x cost-performance improvement over retrofitted server virtualization solutions Scalable, purpose-built management For more information, please see the related whitepapers: http://www.qumranet.com/products-and-solutions/solid-ice-white-papers and videos: http://www.qumranet.com/products-and-solutions/video-library." -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From scott at hosef.org Tue Feb 24 19:45:14 2009 From: scott at hosef.org (R. Scott Belford) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:45:14 -1000 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is K12LTSP at? In-Reply-To: <49A42D31.3030603@redhat.com> References: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> <20090223192108.GB26900@aurora.owens.net> <49A42D31.3030603@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Warren Togami wrote: > K12LTSP EL5 uses the ancient LTSP-4.2. This is beneficial in that you get > security updates for the server and desktop applications on the server until > the year 2014. Ubuntu and Debian releases do not last nearly *that* long. Keep in mind that if you use DRBL, then your support extends across multiple distributions that will last well beyond 2014. You can run DRBL on Fedora or Centos, as well as Ubuntu or Debian. I can boot my newer gbook, asus eeepc, acer aspire, and various Atom-based chipsets from it, as well as my ancient hardware. --scott From rowens at ptd.net Tue Feb 24 20:08:53 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:08:53 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Educational Software via Yum for fedora? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090224200853.GA30736@aurora.owens.net> A lot of those "edutainment" packages are part of the kde-edu package. (I might not have that name exactly right, but search for something like it). -Rob On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 01:21:07PM -0500, Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello, > > I hope everyone is doing well. > > I have a clean installation of K12Linux (based on Fedora 10) and I was > looking for those educational programs that used to come with the > previous versions of LTSP (it used to be called "edutainment"). > When I tried 'Yum groupinstall "Educational Software" ' I get "No > packages in any requested group available to install or update" even > though yum grouplist shows it as a possible group to install? > > What am I doing wrong? > > Thank you > Joseph > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 20:12:10 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:12:10 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is K12LTSP at? In-Reply-To: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > I've been using K12LTSP in our high school for 6 or 7 years.? Just how long > I'm not too sure.? I was alway reading every single post for the first 4 or > 5 years but was never one to often lend technical answers.? Others here just > had more skill.? I'm a full time teacher and just kept busy with the extra 3 > K12 servers, 90 clients and another 12 or so servers... > > Now that K12LTSP 5 based on Centos has come out the list has slowed down it > seems.? I still see Rob O and others here, David H I see in my google > contacts, but I don't know where others like Eric are or if they are still > involved with K12LTSP. I still monitor this list and find it useful but you are right, the number of posts to it have decreased tremendously in the last year or so. > Fedora LTSP is out and I wonder if some of the skilled users have moved over > or have they stopped using LTSP all toegther?? I'm hesitant to make a switch > as the Centos5 based K12LTSP seems to be the most stable to date, easy to > install and configure. I am using the Centos5 version on all my servers (6 LTSP servers, 200+ thin clients, 4 other servers at present). I know I am not getting the latest/greatest that LTSP provides but I've also seen people reporting issues and I just haven't had the time to sort out if K12Linux will run on the thin client hardware that I have available. In particular, I have a lot of Via EPIA 533-based thin clients that the school purchased. These have to work or else I cannot justify the switch. However, the only real driving reason for me to upgrade is to finally, once-and-for-all, get sound working properly with support for local microphones as well. That is the driving issue for me (and if you search this list, you'll notice it is the primary issue that I have had.) So .. I know the limitations of what I have. If I switch and things are not noticeably better the teachers will not be happy. The other concern is that the new version seems to introduce a major change in where configuration files are located, how thin clients communicate with the server and other issues. I think my switches can handle this but with my older servers I'm not sure if they will still be able to handle the same number of clients. > What I'm doing is getting ready for the next change up.? Thinking ahead and > starting to look at what may be involved for a change.? How long do you all > plan to remain with the K12LTSP5? I have an x86 server that I will be rebuilding 'shortly' which means 'by the end of the school year' since any change in our systems will occur over the summer. I am hopefully going to be able to upgrade all the LTSP servers at that time but the authentication, backup and file servers will not be upgrading from CentOS 5 unless I don't have any other options. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From wtogami at redhat.com Tue Feb 24 20:21:22 2009 From: wtogami at redhat.com (Warren Togami) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:21:22 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is K12LTSP at? In-Reply-To: References: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A456C2.6030602@redhat.com> David Hopkins wrote: > I am using the Centos5 version on all my servers (6 LTSP servers, 200+ > thin clients, 4 other servers at present). I know I am not getting the > latest/greatest that LTSP provides but I've also seen people reporting > issues and I just haven't had the time to sort out if K12Linux will > run on the thin client hardware that I have available. In particular, > I have a lot of Via EPIA 533-based thin clients that the school > purchased. These have to work or else I cannot justify the switch. https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/LiveServer Tried this? K12Linux Live Server media will allow you to try K12Linux in demo mode with your existing network of thin clients, without risking the hard drive of your server. > However, the only real driving reason for me to upgrade is to > finally, once-and-for-all, get sound working properly with support for > local microphones as well. That is the driving issue for me (and if Last I heard none of the distributions of LTSP5 have microphones working. This might be mainly an issue of nobody working on it yet though. Warren Togami wtogami at redhat.com From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 20:32:13 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:32:13 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is K12LTSP at? In-Reply-To: <49A456C2.6030602@redhat.com> References: <8b88203f0902230922x6690c69blf5cd058909e96c62@mail.gmail.com> <49A456C2.6030602@redhat.com> Message-ID: Warren, > https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/LiveServer > Tried this? ?K12Linux Live Server media will allow you to try K12Linux in > demo mode with your existing network of thin clients, without risking the > hard drive of your server. Thanks for the reminder about that option. Maybe this is the 'kick' I need to just go and try it. >> However, ?the only real driving reason for me to upgrade is to >> finally, once-and-for-all, get sound working properly with support for >> local microphones as well. ?That is the driving issue for me (and if > > Last I heard none of the distributions of LTSP5 have microphones working. > ?This might be mainly an issue of nobody working on it yet though. Supposedly pulse-audio might work. When I was playing with, it at least claimed that it recognized the mic on the thin clients. I couldn't get any apps to work with the mic though. Again, thanks! Dave Hopkins From nils at breun.nl Tue Feb 24 20:31:50 2009 From: nils at breun.nl (Nils Breunese) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:31:50 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] Red Hat acquires Qumranet's desktop virtualization In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5135ACCF-259E-494A-9723-78DB3320A628@breun.nl> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > How does Red Hat acquiring Qumranet (SolidICE, SPICE desktop > virtualization) affect K12Linux? > > Are there plans for parts of this technology to eventually become part > of K12Linux? Apparently Red Hat is planning on introducing stuff like this, yes: http://practical-tech.com/infrastructure/red-hat-makes-kvm-its-linux-virtualization-of-choice/ Nils Breunese. From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 05:01:16 2009 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:01:16 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Correct way to run thin-client script in LTSP 5? Message-ID: Hello, I hope everyone is doing well. I was familiar with how to have a client run a script during its bootup process with the older LTSP version, but I am sort of lost with LTSP 5 running on Fedora 10. lts.conf says: ############### # A workstation that executes a specific # command after login ############### [00:11:25:93:CF:02] LDM_REMOTECMD=/usr/bin/myloginscript I guess I am confused because I've learned recently that the locations for files in ltsp 5 are very different than ltsp 4.x, and there are several different usr/bin directories lying around! Is this the main root /usr/bin and if so -- how is it accessible from the client shell? I thought they have their own directory system that is a sub-directory of the main root tree? Thank you. Joseph From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 18:15:51 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:15:51 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab Message-ID: Ok, I have been asked to determine if it makes sense to acquire a lab of Apple Imac ( www.apple.com/imac/specs ) and then PXE boot them when they are not being used for video/audio processing classes. I know I could configure them to mount home directories for users but that is not what I'm being asked about. I'd prefer to stay with thin clients except as far as I know there aren't any simple, easy-to-use video/audio editing packages that 'just work' on thin clients. This is for grades 5-8. Perhaps the ability to run local apps with K12Linux solves this? Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Feb 27 18:31:29 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:31:29 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49A83181.5040101@cmosnetworks.com> PowerPC Apple boxes don't use PXE; they use a system more akin to how Sun boxes net-boot. That said, they make fine thin clients assuming they've got decent screen resolution. That'll of course depend on when it was made. Since you're talking about iMacs, that means they all use the newer OpenFirmware, like all other "NewWorld" PPC Macs. You should be able to netboot these things just fine. However, if you run into trouble with that, I've done basic Yellow Dog Linux installs with pretty much just X11 (no GNOME, KDE, Firefox, or any of that other stuff). Just enough to get X11 to run. Then you can stick the following in the rc.local file. X -query w.x.y.z where w.x.y.z is your LTSP server. This alternate strategy works very well with anything, regardless of architecture, just so long as you've got X11 installed (OpenBSD, FreeBSD, any GNU/Linux, Slowaris, whatever). So, if it's dirt-cheap, has 10/100 like all iMacs should, and has decent screen resolution, then yeah, go for it! --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! David Hopkins wrote: > Ok, I have been asked to determine if it makes sense to acquire a lab > of Apple Imac ( www.apple.com/imac/specs ) and then PXE boot them when > they are not being used for video/audio processing classes. I know I > could configure them to mount home directories for users but that is > not what I'm being asked about. I'd prefer to stay with thin clients > except as far as I know there aren't any simple, easy-to-use > video/audio editing packages that 'just work' on thin clients. This is > for grades 5-8. Perhaps the ability to run local apps with K12Linux > solves this? > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Feb 27 18:37:07 2009 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Terrell_Prud=E9_Jr=2E=22?=) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:37:07 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49A832D3.6070800@cmosnetworks.com> BTW, if you want local apps, then I believe your thin clients must use the same CPU architecture as your LTSP server. That is, if your LTSP server's a Power Mac G5, then you'd need PPC thin clients to do local apps. Likewise, an x86-based server would need x86-based clients. But again, this is *only* in the case of running apps locally, not for the "classic" LTSP thin client scenario. --TP _______________________________ Do you GNU ? Microsoft Free since 2003 --the ultimate antivirus protection! David Hopkins wrote: > Ok, I have been asked to determine if it makes sense to acquire a lab > of Apple Imac ( www.apple.com/imac/specs ) and then PXE boot them when > they are not being used for video/audio processing classes. I know I > could configure them to mount home directories for users but that is > not what I'm being asked about. I'd prefer to stay with thin clients > except as far as I know there aren't any simple, easy-to-use > video/audio editing packages that 'just work' on thin clients. This is > for grades 5-8. Perhaps the ability to run local apps with K12Linux > solves this? > > Sincerely, > Dave Hopkins > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 20:18:42 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:18:42 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab In-Reply-To: <49A83181.5040101@cmosnetworks.com> References: <49A83181.5040101@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: > PowerPC Apple boxes don't use PXE; they use a system more akin to how Sun > boxes net-boot.? That said, they make fine thin clients assuming they've got > decent screen resolution.? That'll of course depend on when it was made. This would be a completely new lab with new hardware. Probably 20" all-in-one units. > Since you're talking about iMacs, that means they all use the newer > OpenFirmware, like all other "NewWorld" PPC Macs.? You should be able to > netboot these things just fine.? However, if you run into trouble with that, > I've done basic Yellow Dog Linux installs with pretty much just X11 (no > GNOME, KDE, Firefox, or any of that other stuff).? Just enough to get X11 to > run.? Then you can stick the following in the rc.local file. > > ? X -query w.x.y.z > > where w.x.y.z is your LTSP server.? This alternate strategy works very well > with anything, regardless of architecture, just so long as you've got X11 > installed (OpenBSD, FreeBSD, any GNU/Linux, Slowaris, whatever) > > So, if it's dirt-cheap, has 10/100 like all iMacs should, and has decent > screen resolution, then yeah, go for it! > I think the estimated cost is almost $40K for this lab. I"m not keen on it, but I was asked about it. If someone can show me a way to do movie editing, sound editing, etc with OSS and local apps using the latest k12Linux, I would be ecstatic. From scott at hosef.org Fri Feb 27 20:42:14 2009 From: scott at hosef.org (R. Scott Belford) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:42:14 -1000 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab In-Reply-To: References: <49A83181.5040101@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:18 AM, David Hopkins wrote: > I think the estimated cost is almost $40K for this lab. I"m not keen > on it, but I was asked about it. If someone can show me a way to do > movie editing, sound editing, etc with OSS and local apps using the > latest k12Linux, I would be ecstatic. You will be in luck, David. Your new Mac hardware is Intel based, and you ought to find success with the latest K12Linux. At the very least, you will find some enthusiastic debugging support until it gets there. KDENLIVE , http://www.kdenlive.org/ is something you might want to look at for movie editing. Also, Open Movie Editor, http://www.openmovieeditor.org/ It's hard to do better than the Mac's movie editing offerings, but these are both pretty and friendly applications. I imagine that others on this list have had success with something else. Depending on what kind of sound editing you want to do, you will probably find better applications that do more in the Fedora/K12Linux project than you will with the Mac alone. What kind of sound editing do you want to perform? --scott From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 21:10:07 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:10:07 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab In-Reply-To: References: <49A83181.5040101@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: >> I think the estimated cost is almost $40K for this lab. ?I"m not keen >> on it, but I was asked about it. ?If someone can show me a way to do >> movie editing, sound editing, etc with OSS and local apps using the >> latest k12Linux, I would be ecstatic. > > You will be in luck, David. ?Your new Mac hardware is Intel based, and > you ought to find success with the latest K12Linux. ?At the very > least, you will find some enthusiastic debugging support until it gets > there. This is great news. > KDENLIVE , http://www.kdenlive.org/ ?is something you might want to > look at for movie editing. > > Also, Open Movie Editor, http://www.openmovieeditor.org/ > I'll check these out this weekend. Probably while I'm testing the latest k12linux for compatibility with our thin client hardware. As a guess, would these be able to run as local apps? > It's hard to do better than the Mac's movie editing offerings, but > these are both pretty and friendly applications. ?I imagine that > others on this list have had success with something else. > > Depending on what kind of sound editing you want to do, you will > probably find better applications that do more in the Fedora/K12Linux > project than you will with the Mac alone. ?What kind of sound editing > do you want to perform? > The Tech teacher is ok with using audacity if need be but prefers to keep absolutely everything on a Mac. She owns 7 different Macs and has been slowly trying to get the school to put in all Mac labs and desktop systems everywhere. Sound is the killer issue at the moment. Again, if local apps would solve this problem I'd be happy. Thanks for the quick response. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From brcisna at eazylivin.net Fri Feb 27 21:41:19 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:41:19 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab Message-ID: <1235770879.20787.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi David, It sounds like this teacher is wanting MAC up front, period. You said yourself " I don't like the idea". I bet you would be better off just letting this teacher run her Imacs as Imacs and not try doing the thin client thing. Reason I say this, been there done that,with someone with this mindset. Don't mean to sound so negative here, but from what I read here you are setting yourself up for one of the "I told you Thin Clients would not work" already. Remember this is a woman you are dealing with:). We set up 24 Imacs about 3 years ago and the slot load cd Imacs worked fine with sound, usb sticks , flash. The tray load( this is an easy way of distunguishing the different models), I could never get video to come up right.I can not remember what model of video card these had. But that has been about 4-5 versions ago of K12ltsp. The only reason we got rid of these Imacs was the new Super "wanted all the PC's to look the same". Go figure. You may like the challenge of making these work,which is cool, but I think I would just let her run with whatever she wants to use MAC related and save yourself some grief ,down the road. Let us know what transpires as things develop. Take Care, Barry Cisna From rowens at ptd.net Fri Feb 27 22:02:34 2009 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:02:34 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab In-Reply-To: References: <49A83181.5040101@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <20090227220234.GD11884@aurora.owens.net> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:18:42PM -0500, David Hopkins wrote: > > PowerPC Apple boxes don't use PXE; they use a system more akin to how Sun > > boxes net-boot.? That said, they make fine thin clients assuming they've got > > decent screen resolution.? That'll of course depend on when it was made. > > This would be a completely new lab with new hardware. Probably 20" > all-in-one units. > > > Since you're talking about iMacs, that means they all use the newer > > OpenFirmware, like all other "NewWorld" PPC Macs.? You should be able to > > netboot these things just fine.? However, if you run into trouble with that, > > I've done basic Yellow Dog Linux installs with pretty much just X11 (no > > GNOME, KDE, Firefox, or any of that other stuff).? Just enough to get X11 to > > run.? Then you can stick the following in the rc.local file. > > > > ? X -query w.x.y.z > > > > where w.x.y.z is your LTSP server.? This alternate strategy works very well > > with anything, regardless of architecture, just so long as you've got X11 > > installed (OpenBSD, FreeBSD, any GNU/Linux, Slowaris, whatever) > > > > So, if it's dirt-cheap, has 10/100 like all iMacs should, and has decent > > screen resolution, then yeah, go for it! > > > > I think the estimated cost is almost $40K for this lab. I"m not keen > on it, but I was asked about it. If someone can show me a way to do > movie editing, sound editing, etc with OSS and local apps using the > latest k12Linux, I would be ecstatic. > If the school is willing to spend money on new hardware, why not compare an all-Mac lab to an all-Linux lab, without using LTSP. That's more of an apples-to-apples comparison. LTSP isn't always the best solution, and it sounds like standalone Linux systems would have a better chance against standalone Macs in this case (specifically because of the video and audio editing). $40K would buy you at least 50 pretty nice white-box machines with 22" widescreen monitors. Probably closer to 60. -Rob From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 02:35:45 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:35:45 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab In-Reply-To: <1235770879.20787.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235770879.20787.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: > It sounds like this teacher is wanting MAC up front, period. You said > yourself " I don't like the idea". I bet you ?would be better off just > letting this teacher run her Imacs as Imacs and not try doing the thin > client thing. Reason I say this, been there done that,with someone with > this mindset. Don't mean to sound so negative here, but from what I read > here you are setting yourself up for one of the "I told you Thin Clients > would not work" already. Remember this is a woman you are dealing > with:). She is supportive of thin clients mostly but would definitely prefer to move to all Macs if allowed (predominately because of video/audio issues). What she doesn't want is MS products. Personally, I'd prefer to stay with thin clients if possible but we already have a mix of MS/Apple/Linux in the school. What I am worried about is starting back down the slippery slope to all desktop systems which is where this particular request is leading. There is a history behind it (a little more about it below) > We set up 24 Imacs about 3 years ago and the slot load cd Imacs worked > fine with sound, usb sticks , flash. The tray load( this is an easy way > of distunguishing the different models), I could never get video to come > up right.I can not remember what model of video card these had. But that > has been about 4-5 versions ago of K12ltsp. The only reason we got rid > of these Imacs was the new Super "wanted all the PC's to look the same". > Go figure. > You may like the challenge of making these work,which is cool, but I > think I would just let her run with whatever she wants to use MAC > related and save yourself some grief ,down the road. > Let us know what transpires as things develop. That is why I am leery of Macs and PXE boot (netboot?). Actually, I am somewhat past enjoying the challenge of trying to make things work most days. I like stability and maintainability with no surprises. I know I have to move to the latest K12Linux release for my servers which is about all the excitement I want in the near term. I am rather certain that once we add this Mac lab there will be an immediate request for another laptop lab "because we have so many Macs already" (already heard that in the context of the existing Mac wireless lab). The current financial situation is such that it might not happen but the school has been able to save so much money based on using K12LTSP that ironically funding is available to remove most of the thin clients. I'll definitely keep the list updated on what happens. There are some meetings (State level) to discuss thin clients as a possible state-wide model and moving from them to Macs right now at NCS would be devastating to that possibility. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 02:44:56 2009 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:44:56 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab In-Reply-To: <20090227220234.GD11884@aurora.owens.net> References: <49A83181.5040101@cmosnetworks.com> <20090227220234.GD11884@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: > If the school is willing to spend money on new hardware, why not compare an all-Mac lab to an all-Linux lab, without using LTSP. ?That's more of an > apples-to-apples comparison. ?LTSP isn't always the best solution, and it sounds like standalone Linux systems would have a better chance against > standalone Macs in this case (specifically because of the video and audio editing). > > $40K would buy you at least 50 pretty nice white-box machines with 22" > widescreen monitors. ?Probably closer to 60. > Answering this as separate issue. LTSP is not always the best solution and neither is all Mac or MS. Trick is finding the balance that works. This particular request can tip that balance completely out of kilter. The killer here is ease-of-use for video/audio editing. The scenario/functionality that has been spec'ed almost rules out any option except Macs. I don't have an issue with using what meets the need. I do have a bit of issue when that spec is driven a secondary objective. But ... that sounds like a rant and it really shouldn't be taken that way, well, maybe a little. And 40K would allow putting in 250+ thin clients re-using free desktop systems and only needing to purchase servers and some switches. We'll see what happens. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sat Feb 28 14:27:29 2009 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:27:29 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] OT: Apple Imac lab Message-ID: <1235831249.22561.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Dave, Sounds like you are trying to make the best of the situation at hand there. Just always remember, You are stepping on a woman's domain here,,,:-) The first time running the Imacs as TC's and one hiccups,you WILL be the goat in the female teachers lounge, as you know full well how these old hens network! (That was a joke). As you said, kind of ironic that the money you DID save the district there utilizing TC's gives these people the opportune to "get what they want". You just have to try and pacify everyone in the mix I have found. Like the old Louis Armstrong song goes " Wouldnt it be a Wonderful World" if everyone would embrace the K12LTSP/ K12Linux approach in any school/library/state office setting. Downside: Would put a lot of "network guys" out of a job, not having to chase viruses,failed hardware,file corruption, and on and on! Stated many times before, when she and the higher ups sees Macs costing $1000/piece versus TC at $250/piece, instantly $250=weak,,,:-) This is the mindset referred to in the REAL world as 'simple'. Take Care, Barry Cisna