From dtrask at vcsvikings.org Thu Jul 1 20:52:55 2010 From: dtrask at vcsvikings.org (David Trask) Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:52:55 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] By Golly you should come! Join us at FOSSed next week! Message-ID: http://www.fossed.com Hey everyone! FOSSed is coming up next week! July 7th-9th For those who don't know, FOSSed is the Free and Open Source Software in Education Conference....and we're in our 8th year! This year is shaping up to be a great one! (What else would you expect?) We want you to join us! We've got great hands on sessions taught by professionals just like you who've been using open source software in their schools and organizations. These folks have been there just like you and they can relate to what you're learning and experiencing. Our presenters are excellent and the sessions have been set up based on the input of our past attendees. If you're an educator like me, you have to continually engage in professional development for recertification. Many schools and organizations also require their non-teaching personnel to provide documentation of course work for professional growth. Well...FOSSed can help! Each year we team up with the folks at the University of Southern Maine (USM) to provide "official college-backed" CEU's (continuing education units) on an official transcript (from USM) that you can use for your professional development documentation. We provide 3.0 CEU's for attending sessions at FOSSed. What an awesome way to get some serious contact hours while learning and having fun! So...if you need credit...come to FOSSed! It's not too late. We have people registering every day and we hope you'll be one of them. FOSSed is next week, but there's still time to register (in fact we take registrations right up to the first day of the conference). We're flexible...if the financial arrangements might be delayed...let us know...we'll do everything we can to make special arrangements....we want YOU at FOSSed. *F*ree and *O*pen *S*ource *S*oftware in *ED*ucation (hence FOSSed) can help anyone get more bang for their buck while maintaining quality instruction and programming in their school or organization. We've got many great sessions for you this year! You can see the program under "Sessions" at http://www.fossed.com. We have half-day or full-day sessions where you really get a chance to be "hands-on" try things out and learn from professionals just like you who use this stuff every day! Want to learn more? You can join us at FOSSed! Get the chance to talk to others and see how they're using Open Source in their schools and classrooms. Along with the popular Google Apps sessions...there are many other sessions for teachers and techies alike that will help you learn more to enhance and transform your classroom, school, or district. FOSSed is 3 days of fantastic hands-on learning, after-hours networking, and just plain fun! Join us! July 7th - 9th at Gould Academy in Bethel, Maine. Stay on campus for just $495 which includes EVERYTHING...all meals, rooms, and the conference. Live nearby? Join us as an off-campus attendee for $455...this includes the conference and snacks/lunch. Looking for professional development or recertification credit? FOSSed offers 3.0 CEU's through the University of Southern Maine (USM) via an official transcript. See? There are so many cool things about FOSSed....you should come! Are you an *ACTEM* member? Use your professional development benefit and attend FOSSed for less than $100! Find out more at ACTEM.org under Professional Development. Have some special circumstances or need some flexibility? Let us know! We want YOU at FOSSed and will work with you to make it happen. Flexible payment options (PO, check, credit card...) and a great conference! (we can even bill you after July 1st for those using $$$ from the new fiscal year budget) Remember, July 7th is in the NEW fiscal year...so you can take advantage of that! *The FOOD! * Ask anyone who has been to FOSSed...the food is INCREDIBLE! You'll eat very well....snack well....and don't forget the wine and cheese reception followed by a great banquet on the second night! One more great reason to join us! Come, unwind...and join us for a great conference! Visit http://www.fossed.com for more information and to register today! Questions? Contact us at copperdoggy at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mpelletier at tcz.co.zw Wed Jul 7 08:59:48 2010 From: mpelletier at tcz.co.zw (Mathieu Pelletier) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:59:48 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] LTSP server slow or unresponsive when internet connection is not present References: Message-ID: <4C344204.50101@tcz.co.zw> I have an LTSP server with 30 clients attached. Everything works well, except when our internet connection goes down (which happens with some degree of frequency in our context). When there is no access to internet from our LTSP server everything becomes really slow until eventually the clients just freeze. I have tried removing GSSAPI authentication from SSH which seemed to help, at least now I can ssh into the server, whereas before this was not possible when internet was down. I am not sure what is causing this or how I can fix it. I assume it has something to do with DNS, but I am not sure where to start. Any suggestions? Mathieu Pelletier Director of IT Development Theological College of Zimbabwe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tomislav.skunca at nacional.hr Wed Jul 7 09:16:18 2010 From: tomislav.skunca at nacional.hr (Tomislav =?utf-8?Q?=C5=A0kunca?=) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:16:18 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] LTSP server slow or unresponsive when internet connection is not present In-Reply-To: <4C344204.50101@tcz.co.zw> References: <4C344204.50101@tcz.co.zw> Message-ID: <20100707091618.GA3607@gormenghast.nacional.hr> On Wed, Jul 07, 2010 at 10:59:48AM +0200, Mathieu Pelletier wrote: > I have an LTSP server with 30 clients attached.? Everything works well, > except when our internet connection goes down (which happens with some > degree of frequency in our context).? When there is no access to internet > from our LTSP server everything becomes really slow until eventually the > clients just freeze.? I have tried removing GSSAPI authentication from SSH > which seemed to help, at least now I can ssh into the server, whereas > before this was not possible when internet was down.? I am not sure what > is causing this or how I can fix it.? I assume it has something to do with > DNS, but I am not sure where to start.? Any suggestions? > > Mathieu Pelletier > Director of IT Development > Theological College of Zimbabwe Try setting the 'UseDNS' option in sshd_config to 'no'. That might help. Otherwise you might want to check your DNS settings in /etc/resolv.conf (client side). If everything seems OK you could also try working around the problem using /etc/hosts but I wouldn't suggest it as a long term solution. -- Tomislav ?kunca IS/IT NCL Media Grupa From phanh at canby.k12.or.us Wed Jul 7 22:12:35 2010 From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:12:35 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] No response from server. Restarting... Message-ID: Hello, We loaded and tested the K12Linux Fedora v10 and it worked. Clients able to login. We ran the updates. Now, whenever a client login, will receive this message: "Verifying password. Please wait" and then this "No response from the server. Restarting..." The GUI then quickly restart. There is a post about this same issue but the command ltsp-update-sshkeys did not work for us. SELinux and firewall are disable for now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated :-) From brcisna at eazylivin.net Thu Jul 8 06:07:06 2010 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:07:06 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] LTSP server slow or unresponsive when internet connection is not present Message-ID: <1278569226.9224.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mathieu, Take a look at the /etc/hosts file. Make sure at the very top of this file you have an entry like the following. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost servername.mydomain.net servername ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Replace servername.mydomain.net servername with your actual server name,both FQDN, and host name of course. I never figured out ,why this happens,but sometimes the hosts file only ends up with an ipv6 entry in the hosts file at the top of the file and this line needs to be entered manually. Take Care, Barry Cisna From william at fragakis.com Thu Jul 8 16:47:45 2010 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:47:45 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] No response from server. Restarting... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1278607665.5352.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Did you restart the server but not the clients? william On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:12:35 -0700 > From: Hung Phan > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Subject: [K12OSN] No response from server. Restarting... > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello, > > We loaded and tested the K12Linux Fedora v10 and it worked. Clients > able to login. We ran the updates. Now, whenever a client login, will > receive this message: "Verifying password. Please wait" and then this > "No response from the server. Restarting..." The GUI then quickly > restart. > > There is a post about this same issue but the command > ltsp-update-sshkeys did not work for us. SELinux and firewall are > disable for now. > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated :-) > > From mpelletier at tcz.co.zw Fri Jul 9 12:56:53 2010 From: mpelletier at tcz.co.zw (Mathieu Pelletier) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:56:53 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] LTSP server slow or unresponsive when internet connection is not present References: Message-ID: <4C371C95.8080701@tcz.co.zw> Hello Barry, Thanks for the response. Do you have any idea how one would do this for a multi-homed host (one with multiple nics on the same network)? My ltsp server is running in a mixed environment, whereby I have two nics, one of which is dedicated to the ltsp clients. One NIC has the address 10.10.0.2, while the other one (the ltsp nic) has 10.10.1.3. Do I include the same details on each line? For example, 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost server 10.10.0.2 server.local server 10.10.1.3 server.local server Will this sort of thing confuse things or what? Thanks for the help! Mathieu, Take a look at the /etc/hosts file. Make sure at the very top of this file you have an entry like the following. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost servername.mydomain.net servername ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Replace servername.mydomain.net servername with your actual server name,both FQDN, and host name of course. I never figured out ,why this happens,but sometimes the hosts file only ends up with an ipv6 entry in the hosts file at the top of the file and this line needs to be entered manually. Take Care, Barry Cisna -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sergio.chaves at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 17:11:41 2010 From: sergio.chaves at gmail.com (Sergio Chaves) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:11:41 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] No response from server. Restarting... In-Reply-To: <1278607665.5352.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1278607665.5352.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <201007091311.42169.sergio.chaves@gmail.com> I had a similar issue in the past. I ended up deleting /recreating the account and I was then able to login. sergio On Thursday, July 08, 2010 12:47:45 pm William Fragakis wrote: > Did you restart the server but not the clients? > > william > > On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:12:35 -0700 > > From: Hung Phan > > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > > > > > > > Subject: [K12OSN] No response from server. Restarting... > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Hello, > > > > We loaded and tested the K12Linux Fedora v10 and it worked. Clients > > able to login. We ran the updates. Now, whenever a client login, will > > receive this message: "Verifying password. Please wait" and then this > > "No response from the server. Restarting..." The GUI then quickly > > restart. > > > > There is a post about this same issue but the command > > ltsp-update-sshkeys did not work for us. SELinux and firewall are > > disable for now. > > > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated :-) > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From brcisna at eazylivin.net Fri Jul 9 20:09:41 2010 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:09:41 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] LTSP server slow or unresponsive when internet connection is not present Message-ID: <1278706181.9224.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mathieu, OK, Your second and third lines of hosts file are fine. The top line needs to look like this: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 127.0.0.1 localhost.localdomain localhost servername.domainname servername ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ( you dont have enough info as you have posted in your reply). Do you have this listing at current? If not add it as above. This very well could be your sluggish problem. I bet if you do NOT have listed as stated here you can not do a vnc to the server itself,either. Let us know what you find for remedy. Take Care, Barry Cisna From brcisna at eazylivin.net Fri Jul 9 20:18:01 2010 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:18:01 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status Message-ID: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello All, Anyone know what the status of the K12LTSP project is? Just wondered why the K12LTSP wiki and all is down and parked? It seems the K12Linux project has hit the curb as well? I'm out in the sticks,so I'm always* out of the loop,,,:). Take Care, Barry Cisna From phanh at canby.k12.or.us Fri Jul 9 21:26:59 2010 From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:26:59 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] No response from server. Restarting... In-Reply-To: <201007091311.42169.sergio.chaves@gmail.com> References: <1278607665.5352.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <201007091311.42169.sergio.chaves@gmail.com> Message-ID: We restart both the server and clients to no effect. Any new user account after the update are fine and allow login. However, this will not work well since we have a few dozens users to create and specific app link on the Desktop. On Jul 9, 2010, at 10:11 AM, Sergio Chaves wrote: > I had a similar issue in the past. > I ended up deleting /recreating the account and I was then able to login. > > sergio > > On Thursday, July 08, 2010 12:47:45 pm William Fragakis wrote: >> Did you restart the server but not the clients? >> >> william >> >> On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:12:35 -0700 >>> From: Hung Phan >>> To: "Support list for open source software in schools." >>> >>> >>> >>> Subject: [K12OSN] No response from server. Restarting... >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> We loaded and tested the K12Linux Fedora v10 and it worked. Clients >>> able to login. We ran the updates. Now, whenever a client login, will >>> receive this message: "Verifying password. Please wait" and then this >>> "No response from the server. Restarting..." The GUI then quickly >>> restart. >>> >>> There is a post about this same issue but the command >>> ltsp-update-sshkeys did not work for us. SELinux and firewall are >>> disable for now. >>> >>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated :-) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From phanh at canby.k12.or.us Fri Jul 9 22:02:34 2010 From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:02:34 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Set global screen resolution Message-ID: Hello, folks We are currently having issue with some clients screen flicker and the everything on the login page appear as double. The login screen logo is showed as K12LINULINUX. Same symptom for the desktop. We can change the screen resolution to 1024x768 60Hz refresh rate and the desktop appears normal again. When we first open Screen Resolution, the monitors listed as Unknown and have the resolution at 1600x1200 with 75Hz refresh rate. These are Sony 420GS. How do we fix this issue? Install video driver? Set all clients screen resolution to 1024x768? Usually this setting is under /etc/X11/xorg.conf but it is no where to be found. Thank you for any advice, From robark at gmail.com Sat Jul 10 05:47:32 2010 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:47:32 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Barry Cisna wrote: > Hello All, > > Anyone know what the status of the K12LTSP project is? Just wondered why > the K12LTSP wiki and all is down and parked? > It seems the K12Linux project has hit the curb as well? > I'm out in the sticks,so I'm always* out of the loop,,,:). This is not official. Just my observations. Dan seems to be keeping K12ltsp 5EL in maintenance mode. K12Linux, along with other ltsp distro lists seem to be very quiet. I remember when there was lots of traffic on this list (4 years ago). No longer. I still read this list even though I have moved on to DRBL (similar to ltsp but everything runs on the client). Powerful PC's are just so cheap now. Red Hat now also sells a product kind of similar to ltsp (but not really). http://www.redhat.com/virtualization/rhev/desktop/ So my guess is they are putting resources towards it. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Jul 10 16:13:17 2010 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:13:17 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4C389C1D.4000801@cmosnetworks.com> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Barry Cisna wrote: > >> Hello All, >> >> Anyone know what the status of the K12LTSP project is? Just wondered why >> the K12LTSP wiki and all is down and parked? >> It seems the K12Linux project has hit the curb as well? >> I'm out in the sticks,so I'm always* out of the loop,,,:). >> > > This is not official. Just my observations. > Dan seems to be keeping K12ltsp 5EL in maintenance mode. > K12Linux, along with other ltsp distro lists seem to be very quiet. I > remember when there was lots of traffic on this list (4 years ago). No > longer. I still read this list even though I have moved on to DRBL > (similar to ltsp but everything runs on the client). Powerful PC's are > just so cheap now. > > Red Hat now also sells a product kind of similar to ltsp (but not really). > http://www.redhat.com/virtualization/rhev/desktop/ > So my guess is they are putting resources towards it This is why I recommend (and recommended) every K12Linux user to use K12LTSP 5EL. Security updates remain available, which is the most important. Red Hat, and therefore CentOS, just updated OpenOffice.org and Firefox (and some other applications) to recent versions, so that's staying current. LTSP systems remain a good idea and remain appropriate for classroom labs, cheap thick clients or not. The whole idea of thin clients is to keep maintenance to a minimum. My K12LTSP 5EL server is still goin' strong, still works just great, my "old" thin clients are still doing great. --TP From william at fragakis.com Sat Jul 10 16:50:53 2010 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:50:53 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm taking particular note because we've just bought some atom based all-in-ones that won't boot under ltsp 4 (K12ltsp 5 el) and I've been pondering how to at least migrate to ltsp 5 without being brutally hackish. It's a professional work environment where stability and uptime are the prime considerations so messing about with F13 like I do at home isn't my first instinct. I'm used to the fedora schema so moving to edubuntu involves some learning curve issues I don't want to deal with at the moment either. And seeing the issues that cropped up with 10.04 which I run on a couple of boxes reminds me that ubuntu is more fedora-ish than centos-ish, ie they'll include the latest and greatest at the risk of breaking something. sidenote - how surprised was I when our centos ltsp server updated to Firefox 3.6. I moved from F12 to F13 when F12 wouldn't support 3.6. I thought Centos would never get around to it - I was hoping they'd simply go from 3.0 to 3.5. Robert's note led me to exploring. It does seem that with hardware getting so cheap that the landscape will be changing. these articles looked like a good place to start playing: http://www.linux-kvm.com/content/getting-started-spice-fedora-12 http://www.linux-kvm.com/content/experimental-spice-repository-now-available-fedora-users Now wondering if I can get the atom-based clients up by Monday... regards, William On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:47:32 -0700 > From: Robert Arkiletian > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Barry Cisna > wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > Anyone know what the status of the K12LTSP project is? Just wondered > why > > the K12LTSP wiki and all is down and parked? > > It seems the K12Linux project has hit the curb as well? > > I'm out in the sticks,so I'm always* out of the loop,,,:). > > This is not official. Just my observations. > Dan seems to be keeping K12ltsp 5EL in maintenance mode. > K12Linux, along with other ltsp distro lists seem to be very quiet. I > remember when there was lots of traffic on this list (4 years ago). No > longer. I still read this list even though I have moved on to DRBL > (similar to ltsp but everything runs on the client). Powerful PC's are > just so cheap now. > > Red Hat now also sells a product kind of similar to ltsp (but not > really). > http://www.redhat.com/virtualization/rhev/desktop/ > So my guess is they are putting resources towards it. > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From rowens at ptd.net Sat Jul 10 21:30:37 2010 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:30:37 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20100710213037.GA5613@aurora.owens.net> On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 12:50:53PM -0400, William Fragakis wrote: > I'm taking particular note because we've just bought some atom based > all-in-ones that won't boot under ltsp 4 (K12ltsp 5 el) and I've been > pondering how to at least migrate to ltsp 5 without being brutally > hackish. It's a professional work environment where stability and uptime > are the prime considerations so messing about with F13 like I do at home > isn't my first instinct. I'm used to the fedora schema so moving to > edubuntu involves some learning curve issues I don't want to deal with > at the moment either. And seeing the issues that cropped up with 10.04 > which I run on a couple of boxes reminds me that ubuntu is more > fedora-ish than centos-ish, ie they'll include the latest and greatest > at the risk of breaking something. > > sidenote - how surprised was I when our centos ltsp server updated to > Firefox 3.6. I moved from F12 to F13 when F12 wouldn't support 3.6. I > thought Centos would never get around to it - I was hoping they'd simply > go from 3.0 to 3.5. > > Robert's note led me to exploring. It does seem that with hardware > getting so cheap that the landscape will be changing. > > these articles looked like a good place to start playing: > http://www.linux-kvm.com/content/getting-started-spice-fedora-12 > http://www.linux-kvm.com/content/experimental-spice-repository-now-available-fedora-users > > Now wondering if I can get the atom-based clients up by Monday... > > regards, > William > It is possible to run LTSP 4.2 and LTSP 5 on the same server. http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp5SameServerLTSP42 You need a distro that supports LTSP 5, unless you're willing to jump through some hoops. There is a guy on ltsp-user who runs LTSP 5 on CentOS. He uses a chroot environment built on Ubuntu, I believe. I primarily use Debian these days, so I'll tell you what I like about it. I'm running Debian Stable. Updates are few, which I like (low risk). I can't remember an update ever breaking my system. By using the backports.org repository, you can get current software. For instance, I'm running Iceweasel (Firefox) 3.5.10. Not the most current, but not ancient. The Debian package maintainer for LTSP does a pretty good job of backporting the latest LTSP software for Debian Stable. I've got ltsp-server 5.2.2 running right now. (I'm not sure what the most current version is). In summary I think Debian is very CentOS-ish, but with very strong support for LTSP 5. The package maintainer is a regular on ltsp-user, and he's very responsive. I hope nobody is insulted by my post. I'm not trying to disrespect Fedora/RedHat at all. Just giving some ltsp-related input that I think might be helpful. -Rob From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Jul 10 22:08:41 2010 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 18:08:41 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <20100710213037.GA5613@aurora.owens.net> References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20100710213037.GA5613@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <4C38EF69.6010600@cmosnetworks.com> Rob Owens wrote: > I hope nobody is insulted by my post. I'm not trying to disrespect > Fedora/RedHat at all. Just giving some ltsp-related input that I think > might be helpful. > > -Rob > This is a K12 Free Software forum, Rob. We welcome anything that's Free Software that has to do with education. We've also discussed Edubuntu on quite a few occasions here, so of course Debian is welcome! --TP From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Jul 11 01:04:46 2010 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:04:46 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status Message-ID: <1278810286.8810.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks everyone for the insiders tips... Now the hickster is up to speed on the latest,,,anyways. William, Just curious. What is it on your Atom based TC's that chokes when you *try and boot them on ltsp-4.x? Is it the nic is not detected correctly or?? I'm always up for a good challenge on hacking this kind of stuff,even if I don't know what I'm doing!,,,:). Take Care, Barry From charlie at smbis.com Sun Jul 11 03:22:09 2010 From: charlie at smbis.com (Charlie) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 23:22:09 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <20100710213037.GA5613@aurora.owens.net> References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20100710213037.GA5613@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <1278818529.3541.94.camel@lws.localdomain> On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 17:30 -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > ltsp-user Rob, do you have the actual link that you reference here? Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brcisna at eazylivin.net Sun Jul 11 11:31:33 2010 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 06:31:33 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Set global screen resolution Message-ID: <1278847893.8810.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hung, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf Start reading comments at line # 95 /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/build_x4_cfg Read top to bottom here as well. Be sure and save a copy of each of these files as 'filenameORIG.conf' before you start hacking on these as this will cause you lots of grief if you have not saved originals, if you need to revert back to the original video settings to at least be able to see something! If you get white spaces in these will cause you grief as well. Why do I know?....:) Also, have you tried these clients,just temporarily, with a newer monitor ,preferably a flat panel,just to see if these remedies the flickering you are experiencing? I know you have to use the existing hardware pieces you have available. Take Care, Barry From william at fragakis.com Sun Jul 11 16:53:43 2010 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 12:53:43 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1278867223.2761.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Newer realtek nics aren't detected and then kernel panic. I didn't get the time to see if I could alias them to an older chipset. It's been a little while since I've hacked around in the bowels of /opt/ltsp/i386/etc. I probably could give it a good go but I'd rather spend that time getting stuff updated. Having used ltsp 5 for the last year and a half, I like the way it takes advantage of newer chipsets (say, video). I use Atoms at home and on a gigabit connection to the server, Flash runs well, and even full screen is tolerable. On Robert's suggestion, I'm going to look at drbl. Thanks, William On Sun, 2010-07-11 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:04:46 -0500 > From: Barry Cisna > To: K12LTSP > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status > Message-ID: <1278810286.8810.3.camel at localhost.localdomain> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Thanks everyone for the insiders tips... > Now the hickster is up to speed on the latest,,,anyways. > > William, > > Just curious. What is it on your Atom based TC's that chokes when you > *try and boot them on ltsp-4.x? Is it the nic is not detected > correctly > or?? I'm always up for a good challenge on hacking this kind of > stuff,even if I don't know what I'm doing!,,,:). > > > Take Care, > Barry > > From rowens at ptd.net Mon Jul 12 00:01:07 2010 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 20:01:07 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <1278818529.3541.94.camel@lws.localdomain> References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20100710213037.GA5613@aurora.owens.net> <1278818529.3541.94.camel@lws.localdomain> Message-ID: <20100712000107.GC12672@aurora.owens.net> Whoops, it's actually ltsp-discuss. https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ltsp-discuss -Rob On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 11:22:09PM -0400, Charlie wrote: > On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 17:30 -0400, Rob Owens wrote: > > > ltsp-user > > > Rob, do you have the actual link that you reference here? > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From rowens at ptd.net Mon Jul 12 00:05:22 2010 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 20:05:22 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <1278867223.2761.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1278867223.2761.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20100712000522.GD12672@aurora.owens.net> I tried DRBL briefly. One piece of advice I can give you: the server must be the same architecture as the clients. So if you have i386 clients, the server must run an i386 distro. At least this was the case when I tried it about a year ago. -Rob On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 12:53:43PM -0400, William Fragakis wrote: > Newer realtek nics aren't detected and then kernel panic. I didn't get > the time to see if I could alias them to an older chipset. > > It's been a little while since I've hacked around in the bowels > of /opt/ltsp/i386/etc. I probably could give it a good go but I'd rather > spend that time getting stuff updated. Having used ltsp 5 for the last > year and a half, I like the way it takes advantage of newer chipsets > (say, video). > > I use Atoms at home and on a gigabit connection to the server, Flash > runs well, and even full screen is tolerable. On Robert's suggestion, > I'm going to look at drbl. > > Thanks, > William > > On Sun, 2010-07-11 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > > Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 20:04:46 -0500 > > From: Barry Cisna > > To: K12LTSP > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status > > Message-ID: <1278810286.8810.3.camel at localhost.localdomain> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Thanks everyone for the insiders tips... > > Now the hickster is up to speed on the latest,,,anyways. > > > > William, > > > > Just curious. What is it on your Atom based TC's that chokes when you > > *try and boot them on ltsp-4.x? Is it the nic is not detected > > correctly > > or?? I'm always up for a good challenge on hacking this kind of > > stuff,even if I don't know what I'm doing!,,,:). > > > > > > Take Care, > > Barry > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see From lesmikesell at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 12:38:19 2010 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 07:38:19 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <20100712000522.GD12672@aurora.owens.net> References: <1278867223.2761.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20100712000522.GD12672@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <4C3B0CBB.6080702@gmail.com> Rob Owens wrote: > I tried DRBL briefly. One piece of advice I can give you: the server > must be the same architecture as the clients. So if you have i386 > clients, the server must run an i386 distro. At least this was the case > when I tried it about a year ago. > One of the recent changes to drbl at least in it's clonezilla-server role is adding the ability to PXE-boot an image of the clonezilla-live iso. The advantage is that you can then use the more up to date ubuntu based image for better hardware support on the client even if the server runs something else. I don't know if it is possible to generalize that to boot any live iso image you want, but that seems like it might be a good approach for "thick" clients, especially if you can get a client set up to do ldap authentication and nfs-mount the home directory. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From henryhartley at westat.com Mon Jul 12 14:24:56 2010 From: henryhartley at westat.com (Henry Hartley) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:24:56 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: William Fragakis wrote: >> I'm taking particular note because we've just bought some atom >> based all-in-ones that won't boot under ltsp 4 (K12ltsp 5 el) and >> I've been pondering how to at least migrate to ltsp 5 without being >> brutally hackish. It's a professional work environment where >> stability and uptime are the prime considerations so messing about >> with F13 like I do at home isn't my first instinct. I'm used to the >> fedora schema so moving to edubuntu involves some learning curve >> issues I don't want to deal with at the moment either. And seeing >> the issues that cropped up with 10.04 which I run on a couple of >> boxes reminds me that ubuntu is more fedora-ish than centos-ish, >> ie they'll include the latest and greatest at the risk of breaking >> something. Does anyone know what the likelihood is of CentOS 6 and LTSP 5 being packaged? RHEL 6 is in its second beta (of 3, probably) so it's starting to come into view over the horizon. I'm running two CentOS 5 servers now and am thankful for their stability -- they just work. Like others, though, I'd like to move to LTSP 5 and haven't had the time or energy to do look into doing it on my current systems. If CentOS-6/LTSP-5 were to be packaged (or LTSP-5 was a reasonably easy install to a base CentOS system) that would be terrific, I think. -- Henry From gspurgeon at redhat.com Mon Jul 12 15:26:51 2010 From: gspurgeon at redhat.com (Gavin Spurgeon) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:26:51 +0100 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4C3B343B.5040301@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Does anyone know what the likelihood is of CentOS 6 and LTSP 5 being packaged? I have already said that I am willing to take over the packaging of the .rpms for Fedora/RHEL but I am in the process of trying to take over the packages on the Fedora Packages System but this is a slow process and we are still trying to contact the current owner and sort things out. Once this gets done the 1st thing on the TODO list is to package teh latest version of LTSP for F13 and of course get things ready for upcoming versions of RHEL. Hope this helps... - -- Gavin Spurgeon. gspurgeon at redhat.com Red Hat GLS Instructor EMEA Red Hat UK Ltd 64 Baker Street 4th Floor, London, W1U 7DF Mob: +44 7841 231160 Desk: +44 0207 009 4429 (Direct) Tel: +44 1252 362709 Fax: +44 1252 548116 Registered in England and Wales under Company Registration No. 03798903 Directors: Michael Cunningham (USA), Brendan Lane (Ireland), Matt Parson (USA), Charlie Peters (USA) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkw7NDsACgkQvp6arS3vDioz5QCgz96tyQ3wjH8vQ+eANc6V5zPe dwgAoMepm/6jUA8FGz5GFz+biIrIOMkn =CvmB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From krauses at deerpark.wednet.edu Mon Jul 12 16:24:10 2010 From: krauses at deerpark.wednet.edu (Steve Krause) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:24:10 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> I have been reading this thread with interest this morning. We have been using the combination of CentOS distro, LTSP 4.2, KDE 3.5, and KioskAdminTool. We would like to move forward on all accounts, but we need to have the ready management of desktop environment for students and staff the kiosk tool gives us. Anybody have suggestions on the best path to follow? Thanks for the help. Steve Krause, CNE Network Manager Deer Park School District #414 Deer Park, WA (509) 464-5567 krauses at deerpark.wednet.edu From lesmikesell at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 16:26:49 2010 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:26:49 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C3B343B.5040301@redhat.com> References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3B343B.5040301@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4C3B4249.8060909@gmail.com> On 7/12/2010 10:26 AM, Gavin Spurgeon wrote: > >> Does anyone know what the likelihood is of CentOS 6 and LTSP 5 being packaged? > > I have already said that I am willing to take over the packaging of the > .rpms for Fedora/RHEL but I am in the process of trying to take over the > packages on the Fedora Packages System but this is a slow process and we > are still trying to contact the current owner and sort things out. Once > this gets done the 1st thing on the TODO list is to package teh latest > version of LTSP for F13 and of course get things ready for upcoming > versions of RHEL. > > Hope this helps... I think the nature of the usage is such that if it doesn't have a solid release by early/mid August, most of the potential US users will have to stick with K12LTSP EL5 another year - at least if ltsp4 works on their clients. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com Mon Jul 12 16:52:41 2010 From: clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:52:41 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> Message-ID: <4C3B4859.2050108@dinamis.com> On 07/12/2010 12:24 PM, Steve Krause wrote: > I have been reading this thread with interest this morning. We have > been using the combination of CentOS distro, LTSP 4.2, KDE 3.5, and > KioskAdminTool. > > We would like to move forward on all accounts, but we need to have > the ready management of desktop environment for students and staff > the kiosk tool gives us. Anybody have suggestions on the best path > to follow? Thanks for the help. I haven't seen anything like the kiosk tool for KDE 4x. Does anyone know if such a thing exists for KDE 4? -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 From monteslu at cox.net Mon Jul 12 16:53:03 2010 From: monteslu at cox.net (Luis Montes) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:53:03 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C3B4249.8060909@gmail.com> References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3B343B.5040301@redhat.com> <4C3B4249.8060909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C3B486F.1030302@cox.net> Les Mikesell wrote: > On 7/12/2010 10:26 AM, Gavin Spurgeon wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know what the likelihood is of CentOS 6 and LTSP 5 being >>> packaged? >> >> I have already said that I am willing to take over the packaging of the >> .rpms for Fedora/RHEL but I am in the process of trying to take over the >> packages on the Fedora Packages System but this is a slow process and we >> are still trying to contact the current owner and sort things out. Once >> this gets done the 1st thing on the TODO list is to package teh latest >> version of LTSP for F13 and of course get things ready for upcoming >> versions of RHEL. >> >> Hope this helps... > > I think the nature of the usage is such that if it doesn't have a > solid release by early/mid August, most of the potential US users will > have to stick with K12LTSP EL5 another year - at least if ltsp4 works > on their clients. > This would be extremely unfortunate. One thing that I haven't been able to run on Centos5 is Google's Chrome. As more and more sites ditch flash in favor of javascript+HTML5, this is becoming really important. Firefox is good, but Chrome is much faster. Chrome running an LTSP5 local app would be even better. Luis From robark at gmail.com Mon Jul 12 18:20:57 2010 From: robark at gmail.com (Robert Arkiletian) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:20:57 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C3B486F.1030302@cox.net> References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3B343B.5040301@redhat.com> <4C3B4249.8060909@gmail.com> <4C3B486F.1030302@cox.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Luis Montes wrote: > Les Mikesell wrote: >> >> On 7/12/2010 10:26 AM, Gavin Spurgeon wrote: >>> >>>> Does anyone know what the likelihood is of CentOS 6 and LTSP 5 being >>>> packaged? >>> >>> I have already said that I am willing to take over the packaging of the >>> .rpms for Fedora/RHEL but I am in the process of trying to take over the >>> packages on the Fedora Packages System but this is a slow process and we >>> are still trying to contact the current owner and sort things out. Once >>> this gets done the 1st thing on the TODO list is to package teh latest >>> version of LTSP for F13 and of course get things ready for upcoming >>> versions of RHEL. >>> >>> Hope this helps... >> >> I think the nature of the usage is such that if it doesn't have a solid >> release by early/mid August, most of the potential US users will have to >> stick with K12LTSP EL5 another year - at least if ltsp4 works on their >> clients. >> > This would be extremely unfortunate. ?One thing that I haven't been able to > run on Centos5 is Google's Chrome. ?As more and more sites ditch flash in > favor of javascript+HTML5, this is becoming really important. ?Firefox is > good, but ?Chrome is much faster. > > Chrome running an LTSP5 ?local app would be even better. > RHEL6 most likely won't be out before Halloween which means CentOS6 will probably come in early 2011. Then somebody like Gavin will have to make packages of K12Linux for it. So I would plan for a K12Linux based on CentOS6 for next school year (Sept 2011). Unless you are brave enough to switch mid year (I'm not). But if a newer distro is that important (for Chrome and the like) then why not just use Fedora 12 now. It's ready and stable. Plus RHEL6 is mostly based on F12 anyway. Yes F12 is going to stop getting updates in Nov but if you're not running services on it that are publicly accessible, all you really need to make sure is your browser+plugins are up to date. BTW if all your clients are strong enough to run the most demanding and resource hungry app (Chrome) locally, then DRBL may be an option for you. Just a side note: I never really feel comfortable with Fedora in a production environment like ltsp or drbl until it's been out for at least 2-3 months. -- Robert Arkiletian Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From burke at thealmquists.net Mon Jul 12 19:05:12 2010 From: burke at thealmquists.net (Burke Almquist) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:05:12 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] No response from server. Restarting... In-Reply-To: References: <1278607665.5352.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> <201007091311.42169.sergio.chaves@gmail.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jul 9, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Hung Phan wrote: > We restart both the server and clients to no effect. Any new user > account after the update are fine and allow login. However, this > will not work well since we have a few dozens users to create and > specific app link on the Desktop. > > What you need to do is run a script (and I've seen some posted on this list before) to delete the .gnome (or other desktop manager) folder in each user's home folder. This happens sometimes when you upgrade your OS and are running a new version of GNOME or KDE (or if the user's settings for them get corrupted). -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkw7Z2gACgkQxWV7OPa/g5GH/wCgiLBbwVQGmBUeZ35L0ahReti6 BIQAn0fWyRFrNN4D7xL58UhL4VBSH9yt =n0Il -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rowens at ptd.net Tue Jul 13 03:03:56 2010 From: rowens at ptd.net (Rob Owens) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:03:56 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> Message-ID: <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 09:24:10AM -0700, Steve Krause wrote: > I have been reading this thread with interest this morning. We have been using the combination of CentOS distro, LTSP 4.2, KDE 3.5, and KioskAdminTool. > > We would like to move forward on all accounts, but we need to have the ready management of desktop environment for students and staff the kiosk tool gives us. Anybody have suggestions on the best path to follow? Thanks for the help. > I think sabayon does something similar, but I'm not sure if it's specific to Gnome. -Rob From krauses at deerpark.wednet.edu Tue Jul 13 13:35:36 2010 From: krauses at deerpark.wednet.edu (Steve Krause) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:35:36 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> Message-ID: <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> Yes, Sabayon works with Gnome. There is another product whose name escapes me at the moment, but it starts with a "P", that together perform similarly in a Gnome environment. It would be good to keep some continuity in the Desktop and it is nice to have the management in a single tool. Steve Krause, CNE Network Manager Deer Park School District #414 Deer Park, WA (509) 464-5567 krauses at deerpark.wednet.edu From monteslu at cox.net Tue Jul 13 14:18:02 2010 From: monteslu at cox.net (Luis Montes) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:18:02 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: <1278780653.6036.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3B343B.5040301@redhat.com> <4C3B4249.8060909@gmail.com> <4C3B486F.1030302@cox.net> Message-ID: <4C3C759A.6080804@cox.net> Robert Arkiletian wrote: > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Luis Montes wrote: > >> Les Mikesell wrote: >> >>> On 7/12/2010 10:26 AM, Gavin Spurgeon wrote: >>> >>>>> Does anyone know what the likelihood is of CentOS 6 and LTSP 5 being >>>>> packaged? >>>>> >>>> I have already said that I am willing to take over the packaging of the >>>> .rpms for Fedora/RHEL but I am in the process of trying to take over the >>>> packages on the Fedora Packages System but this is a slow process and we >>>> are still trying to contact the current owner and sort things out. Once >>>> this gets done the 1st thing on the TODO list is to package teh latest >>>> version of LTSP for F13 and of course get things ready for upcoming >>>> versions of RHEL. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps... >>>> >>> I think the nature of the usage is such that if it doesn't have a solid >>> release by early/mid August, most of the potential US users will have to >>> stick with K12LTSP EL5 another year - at least if ltsp4 works on their >>> clients. >>> >>> >> This would be extremely unfortunate. One thing that I haven't been able to >> run on Centos5 is Google's Chrome. As more and more sites ditch flash in >> favor of javascript+HTML5, this is becoming really important. Firefox is >> good, but Chrome is much faster. >> >> Chrome running an LTSP5 local app would be even better. >> >> > > RHEL6 most likely won't be out before Halloween which means CentOS6 > will probably come in early 2011. Then somebody like Gavin will have > to make packages of K12Linux for it. So I would plan for a K12Linux > based on CentOS6 for next school year (Sept 2011). Unless you are > brave enough to switch mid year (I'm not). > > But if a newer distro is that important (for Chrome and the like) then > why not just use Fedora 12 now. It's ready and stable. Plus RHEL6 is > mostly based on F12 anyway. Yes F12 is going to stop getting updates > in Nov but if you're not running services on it that are publicly > accessible, all you really need to make sure is your browser+plugins > are up to date. > > BTW if all your clients are strong enough to run the most demanding > and resource hungry app (Chrome) locally, then DRBL may be an option > for you. > > Just a side note: I never really feel comfortable with Fedora in a > production environment like ltsp or drbl until it's been out for at > least 2-3 months. > > Hadn't thought about running F12. I guess having support until November is better than the long unsupported version I'm using now. Most of the thin clients we're won't have enough RAM for Chrome running as a local app, but some will. Would be nice to be able to toggle it on for the ones that can. I've got about two weeks to figure something out. Luis From william at fragakis.com Tue Jul 13 17:07:14 2010 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:07:14 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1279040834.4541.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've been running F13 upgraded from F12 without issue for some time. If you have clients that can boot off of F12 or 13, it works very well. F13 uses the latest Firefox, Flash, etc. which are quite stable. F13 is i686 only so make sure it plays well with older clients that run Via processors (iirc). If you are worried about the eye candy clogging up the pipes, the lxde spin is wonderfully lightweight. There are some things missing vs. Gnome but I've been meaning for a while to tout its advantages. You can make a nice "netbook" style interface with it that may well be suited for younger students. (Written from an F12 client off of an F13 server) regards, William On Tue, 2010-07-13 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:20:57 -0700 > From: Robert Arkiletian > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Luis Montes wrote: > > Les Mikesell wrote: > >> > >> On 7/12/2010 10:26 AM, Gavin Spurgeon wrote: > >>> > >>>> Does anyone know what the likelihood is of CentOS 6 and LTSP 5 > being > >>>> packaged? > >>> > >>> I have already said that I am willing to take over the packaging > of the > >>> .rpms for Fedora/RHEL but I am in the process of trying to take > over the > >>> packages on the Fedora Packages System but this is a slow process > and we > >>> are still trying to contact the current owner and sort things out. > Once > >>> this gets done the 1st thing on the TODO list is to package teh > latest > >>> version of LTSP for F13 and of course get things ready for > upcoming > >>> versions of RHEL. > >>> > >>> Hope this helps... > >> > >> I think the nature of the usage is such that if it doesn't have a > solid > >> release by early/mid August, most of the potential US users will > have to > >> stick with K12LTSP EL5 another year - at least if ltsp4 works on > their > >> clients. > >> > > This would be extremely unfortunate. ?One thing that I haven't been > able to > > run on Centos5 is Google's Chrome. ?As more and more sites ditch > flash in > > favor of javascript+HTML5, this is becoming really > important. ?Firefox is > > good, but ?Chrome is much faster. > > > > Chrome running an LTSP5 ?local app would be even better. > > > > RHEL6 most likely won't be out before Halloween which means CentOS6 > will probably come in early 2011. Then somebody like Gavin will have > to make packages of K12Linux for it. So I would plan for a K12Linux > based on CentOS6 for next school year (Sept 2011). Unless you are > brave enough to switch mid year (I'm not). > > But if a newer distro is that important (for Chrome and the like) then > why not just use Fedora 12 now. It's ready and stable. Plus RHEL6 is > mostly based on F12 anyway. Yes F12 is going to stop getting updates > in Nov but if you're not running services on it that are publicly > accessible, all you really need to make sure is your browser+plugins > are up to date. > > BTW if all your clients are strong enough to run the most demanding > and resource hungry app (Chrome) locally, then DRBL may be an option > for you. > > Just a side note: I never really feel comfortable with Fedora in a > production environment like ltsp or drbl until it's been out for at > least 2-3 months. > > -- > Robert Arkiletian > Eric Hamber Secondary, Vancouver, Canada From brcisna at eazylivin.net Wed Jul 14 19:49:25 2010 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:49:25 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status Message-ID: <1279136965.10850.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Steve Krause Try Alacarte, as your menu editor. Very reliable for any desktop model. Hope this helps. Take Care, BC From dahopkins429 at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 13:16:35 2010 From: dahopkins429 at gmail.com (David Hopkins) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:16:35 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> Message-ID: Late responding but I think you are referring to Pessulus. Sabayon is under active development, at least on the Ubuntu/Debian list. As for K12LTSP5 EL, I am currently migrating my LTSP servers to Ubuntu (Karmic Koala, upgrade to Lucid Lynx after a few more of the issues get sorted out). I am keeping the rest of my backend servers at RHEL 5 though. This is specifically to pick up the ability to run LTSP 5.2. The big difference between the distros is how to manage them. LDAP integration is not as simple as RHEL/CentOS but does work, just have to install the right package. If you choose this route and get stuck, send me an email and I can post the instructions I got on how to do it along with the link to the correct package. I tried DRBL and it isn't that difficult to set up. However, for my thin client hardware, LTSP 5.2 looks to be a better fit. I have local apps running for Tuxmath, Pixie and a few other packages, with everything else running on the servers. Sincerely, Dave Hopkins Newark Charter School Newark Del 19713 On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Steve Krause wrote: > Yes, Sabayon works with Gnome. ?There is another product whose name escapes me at the moment, but it starts with a "P", that together perform similarly in a Gnome environment. ?It would be good to keep some continuity in the Desktop and it is nice to have the management in a single tool. > > > Steve Krause, CNE > Network Manager > Deer Park School District #414 > Deer Park, WA > (509) 464-5567 > krauses at deerpark.wednet.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 14:47:27 2010 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:47:27 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> Message-ID: Hello everyone, So I thought I'd ask if there has been any news about updating K12Linux to a newer version of Fedora. I've come across some issues now that are dead in the water because I'm stuck with Fedora 10 which already past its "End of Life". Fedora really is an excellent distribution from our teacher's/student's point of view, and I've had good experience as an inexperienced administrator with it so I'm concerned about switching to another distribution. I do have a new-ish server that is ready to test out any new versions of the K12Linux and a lab with a variety of old and new-ish machines if that would help. I ask because as the summer continues I will have to make a decision before September for what to do. Thanks! Joseph From microman at cmosnetworks.com Fri Jul 23 18:22:21 2010 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:22:21 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> Message-ID: <4C49DDDD.6060601@cmosnetworks.com> I'm thinking our best bet is to do a K12Linux with LTSP 5 on the upcoming CentOS 6 (a "K12Linux 6EL", if you will). It'll be probably half a year, but like today's K12LTSP 5EL, that'll have long-term support. Fedora simply changes too fast to be maintainable at any level which requires scaling. Don't get me wrong, Fedora's great for its intended purpose, and that purpose is the hobbyist and advanced technical user. I don't know a blessed thing about making RPM's (yet), but I'd be willing to help package such a K12Linux 6EL if the need is there. --TP Joseph Bishay wrote: > Hello everyone, > > So I thought I'd ask if there has been any news about updating > K12Linux to a newer version of Fedora. I've come across some issues > now that are dead in the water because I'm stuck with Fedora 10 which > already past its "End of Life". Fedora really is an excellent > distribution from our teacher's/student's point of view, and I've had > good experience as an inexperienced administrator with it so I'm > concerned about switching to another distribution. I do have a > new-ish server that is ready to test out any new versions of the > K12Linux and a lab with a variety of old and new-ish machines if that > would help. > > I ask because as the summer continues I will have to make a decision > before September for what to do. > > Thanks! > Joseph > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 20:09:47 2010 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:09:47 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C49DDDD.6060601@cmosnetworks.com> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <4C49DDDD.6060601@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: Allo, I used K12LTSP for years and it was rock solid. I ended up moving to K12Linux because of the additional features that were available by using a more "cutting-edge" distribution, specifically graphics, boot-up speed, desktops, etc. I guess my question is, would all that be available still with CentOS 6 (I use it on at least 5 other servers so I know it's pretty awesome, but that's with respect to servers, not workstations for kids in a school). I've got a problem now where we have an nvidia Ion machine that won't work with anything but the most up-to-date distribution (and even that is still not automatic but requires quite a few steps to get it to work) -- how would that be affected by moving to CentOS? Other things like Firefox versions, OO.org, etc? Just thinking aloud :) Joseph On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > I'm thinking our best bet is to do a K12Linux with LTSP 5 on the upcoming > CentOS 6 (a "K12Linux 6EL", if you will). ?It'll be probably half a year, > but like today's K12LTSP 5EL, that'll have long-term support. > > Fedora simply changes too fast to be maintainable at any level which > requires scaling. ?Don't get me wrong, Fedora's great for its intended > purpose, and that purpose is the hobbyist and advanced technical user. > > I don't know a blessed thing about making RPM's (yet), but I'd be willing to > help package such a K12Linux 6EL if the need is there. > > --TP > > Joseph Bishay wrote: >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> So I thought I'd ask if there has been any news about updating >> K12Linux to a newer version of Fedora. ?I've come across some issues >> now that are dead in the water because I'm stuck with Fedora 10 which >> already past its "End of Life". ?Fedora really is an excellent >> distribution from our teacher's/student's point of view, and I've had >> good experience as an inexperienced administrator with it so I'm >> concerned about switching to another distribution. ?I do have a >> new-ish server that is ready to test out any new versions of the >> K12Linux and a lab with a variety of old and new-ish machines if that >> would help. >> >> I ask because as the summer continues I will have to make a decision >> before September for what to do. >> >> Thanks! >> Joseph >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From lesmikesell at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 20:54:49 2010 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:54:49 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <4C49DDDD.6060601@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <4C4A0199.5040105@gmail.com> On 7/23/2010 3:09 PM, Joseph Bishay wrote: > Allo, > > I used K12LTSP for years and it was rock solid. I ended up moving to > K12Linux because of the additional features that were available by > using a more "cutting-edge" distribution, specifically graphics, > boot-up speed, desktops, etc. I guess my question is, would all that > be available still with CentOS 6 (I use it on at least 5 other servers > so I know it's pretty awesome, but that's with respect to servers, not > workstations for kids in a school). The problem is that CentOS 6 doesn't exist yet. When it does, it should be close to fedora 13 and even closer to the Red Hat beta 6 that you could preview now: http://www.redhat.com/rhel/beta/ I've got a problem now where we have an nvidia Ion machine that won't > work with anything but the most up-to-date distribution (and even that > is still not automatic but requires quite a few steps to get it to > work) -- how would that be affected by moving to CentOS? > > Other things like Firefox versions, OO.org, etc? The enterprise versions usually release with fairly current software but the updates are just bug/security fixes from then on. With CentOS 5, Firefox and OO were exceptions, getting major version updates after the release. -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From microman at cmosnetworks.com Sat Jul 24 00:48:49 2010 From: microman at cmosnetworks.com (Terrell Prude' Jr.) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 20:48:49 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C4A0199.5040105@gmail.com> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <4C49DDDD.6060601@cmosnetworks.com> <4C4A0199.5040105@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C4A3871.7020306@cmosnetworks.com> Les Mikesell wrote: > The problem is that CentOS 6 doesn't exist yet. When it does, it > should be close to fedora 13 and even closer to the Red Hat beta 6 > that you could preview now: http://www.redhat.com/rhel/beta/ True. But when it does, we should look very strongly at making an EL version out of it. That was my point. Does anyone on this list have experience with packaging software for RPM distros? I've never done it, but I'm certainly willing to help out. > > > The enterprise versions usually release with fairly current software > but the updates are just bug/security fixes from then on. With CentOS > 5, Firefox and OO were exceptions, getting major version updates after > the release. And in these two cases, they really did need to do that. The OO.o upgrade was an absolute necessity due to the OOXML file format compatibility issue, and the Firefox update is because RH simply don't have the resources to maintain older versions of Firefox. --TP From jthomas at bittware.com Sat Jul 24 01:03:23 2010 From: jthomas at bittware.com (j.w. thomas) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 21:03:23 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12LTSP status In-Reply-To: <4C4A3871.7020306@cmosnetworks.com> References: <1278706681.9224.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4C3ADF3A.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <20100713030356.GB19064@aurora.owens.net> <4C3C0937.4242.00FC.0@deerpark.wednet.edu> <4C49DDDD.6060601@cmosnetworks.com> <4C4A0199.5040105@gmail.com> <4C4A3871.7020306@cmosnetworks.com> Message-ID: <4C4A3BDB.2050605@bittware.com> Terrell Prude' Jr. wrote: > Does anyone on this list have experience with packaging software for RPM > distros? I've never done it, but I'm certainly willing to help out. I've done it before, but it was so long ago that I would have ot essentially start over again from the beginning to re-learn how to do it. I do recall though that it was not that difficult. -- Jim Thomas Principal Applications Engineer Bittware, Inc jthomas at bittware.com http://www.bittware.com (603) 226-0404 x536 Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool. From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 23:08:40 2010 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:08:40 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? Message-ID: Hello, How are you doing? I hope all is well. So I was recently informed by one of our staff that our LTSP (k12Linux) system is too slow for youtube videos. Not being a youtube person (at least at work!) I had never really tried it so I gave it a test now. Setup: Server -> gigabit card -> gigabit switch -> gigabit client (Dell Inspiron 530 - Core 2 Duo processor 1 GB RAM) Ran the test when there was no one else logged into the network. Gave the Old Spice youtube video a whirl ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE ) (ran it at 480p setting) and it's horrible. It's not a video as much as a fast-flickering slideshow. Just to put it further I ran it at full-screen mode and it looked more like a powerpoint slide presentation than a video. I tried re-running the video several times, to see if having it in memory/cache made a different but it didn't. So I'm not sure what is the problem. I recently purchased the gigabit switch specifically to help speed things up but now I'm very worried. What do you recommend I do in order to determine the location of the bottleneck? thank you Joseph From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 00:20:59 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:20:59 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi I have been supporting public schools w LTSP and LDAP for 6 years (about to start the 7th year). For the first three years, we ran LTSP. At the beginning of the 4th year, we went to LDAP for exactly the reasons you cite here, namely lagging across the network. I am only a level one sys admin (I'm actually a lawyer in my day job), but I'm pretty sure the real sys admins chose LDAP because it was more efficient to push some of the load onto the clients rather than have the dervers bear so much of the brunt. On Jul 27, 2010 4:14 PM, "Joseph Bishay" wrote: Hello, How are you doing? I hope all is well. So I was recently informed by one of our staff that our LTSP (k12Linux) system is too slow for youtube videos. Not being a youtube person (at least at work!) I had never really tried it so I gave it a test now. Setup: Server -> gigabit card -> gigabit switch -> gigabit client (Dell Inspiron 530 - Core 2 Duo processor 1 GB RAM) Ran the test when there was no one else logged into the network. Gave the Old Spice youtube video a whirl ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE ) (ran it at 480p setting) and it's horrible. It's not a video as much as a fast-flickering slideshow. Just to put it further I ran it at full-screen mode and it looked more like a powerpoint slide presentation than a video. I tried re-running the video several times, to see if having it in memory/cache made a different but it didn't. So I'm not sure what is the problem. I recently purchased the gigabit switch specifically to help speed things up but now I'm very worried. What do you recommend I do in order to determine the location of the bottleneck? thank you Joseph _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com Wed Jul 28 01:12:16 2010 From: clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:12:16 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4F83F0.6010108@dinamis.com> On 07/27/2010 08:20 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi > > I have been supporting public schools w LTSP and LDAP for 6 years (about > to start the 7th year). For the first three years, we ran LTSP. At the > beginning of the 4th year, we went to LDAP for exactly the reasons you > cite here, namely lagging across the network. I am only a level one sys > admin (I'm actually a lawyer in my day job), but I'm pretty sure the > real sys admins chose LDAP because it was more efficient to push some of > the load onto the clients rather than have the dervers bear so much of > the brunt. LDAP wouldn't make any difference in video performance. It's purpose is centralized authentication. The machine on which I'm typing this is an i5-750 with 4GB of RAM and an nVidia 9800GTS video card running Fedora 12. Firefox and Flash are quite piggy so especially if I have a bunch of tabs open in Firefox, I can notice degradation in video playback performance. Higher resolutions only exacerbate the problem. If this is an issue on a reasonably fast machine like the machine I'm using where data doesn't have to traverse a network, you can imagine that once packets have to be pushed across a network, even if it's a Gigabit network, you'll have problems. In fact, a handful of thin-clients playing a YouTube video will bring even a fast server to its knees, if the network isn't saturated first. At the school at which I volunteer, the school administration was complaining loudly one day when anything they attempted to do on the network, such as accessing the file server or checking email, would take intolerably long and in some cases, time out. I checked the mrtg graphs for the day in question and saw two spikes in network traffic, one in the morning and another in the afternoon and asked the IT Coordinator to find out what was going on at those times. Apparently, a few of the teachers were streaming FIFA World Cup games over the Internet and that was enough to saturate the Gigabit network to the point where other network services were adversely affected. The solution to the original poster's problem is apparently specifying that certain apps, like Firefox, should run locally on the thin-client. I've only read about it and haven't done it so you'll have to do your own tests to confirm. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 From william at fragakis.com Wed Jul 28 16:49:51 2010 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:49:51 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1280335791.7503.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> I just ran the same video on an Intel atom single core. I have 14 windows open in Firefox ver. 3.6, Flash ver. 10.1. I'm running F13 on the AMD x2 server and and F12 on the client at 1280x1024. Gigabit through two switches to the client. I'm even running Compiz on the clients. The youtube video runs fine. I would have difficulty saying it's an LTSP issue unless you are running LTSP4 which is an entirely different story, imho. Things to check: versions of Flash and Firefox. Each edition gets better and faster. Just because the switches and NICs are gigabit, check that it's actually connecting at that rate - ie not a bad cable or connection along the line. I sometimes get a wonky connection on one of my cables and things get as you describe - painfully slow even to use the desktop. What color depth are you using? 32 bit is overkill and uses vastly more resources. Make sure that the clients aren't using vesa drivers. Are you using ssh encryption on the server client connection? It should be off (the default, as is 16 bit). What screen resolution are you running on the client? Finally, that's way overkill for a core2duo to be the client. It could serve 10-20 clients on its own. You should be running localapps or drbl. Definitely something going on with your setup that. Regards, William On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:08:40 -0400 > From: Joseph Bishay > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello, > > How are you doing? I hope all is well. > > So I was recently informed by one of our staff that our LTSP > (k12Linux) system is too slow for youtube videos. Not being a youtube > person (at least at work!) I had never really tried it so I gave it a > test now. > > Setup: > Server -> gigabit card -> gigabit switch -> gigabit client (Dell > Inspiron 530 - Core 2 Duo processor 1 GB RAM) > > Ran the test when there was no one else logged into the network. Gave > the Old Spice youtube video a whirl ( > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE ) (ran it at 480p setting) > and it's horrible. It's not a video as much as a fast-flickering > slideshow. Just to put it further I ran it at full-screen mode and it > looked more like a powerpoint slide presentation than a video. > > I tried re-running the video several times, to see if having it in > memory/cache made a different but it didn't. > > So I'm not sure what is the problem. I recently purchased the gigabit > switch specifically to help speed things up but now I'm very worried. > > What do you recommend I do in order to determine the location of the > bottleneck? > > thank you > Joseph From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 17:34:22 2010 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:34:22 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? In-Reply-To: <1280335791.7503.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1280335791.7503.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Hello, Thank you for all your recommendations in your email. On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 12:49 PM, William Fragakis wrote: > I ?just ran the same video on an Intel atom single core. I have 14 > windows open in Firefox ver. 3.6, Flash ver. 10.1. I'm running F13 on > the AMD x2 server and and F12 on the client at 1280x1024. Gigabit > through two switches to the client. I'm even running Compiz on the > clients. In that case one major difference may be the server the clients are running on. I am running LTSP 5 on Fedora 10 on a Pentium 4, 2.4 GHz > Things to check: versions of Flash and Firefox. Each edition gets better > and faster. That may be part of the issue - because there has been no new release of K12Linux, I am stuck running the Firefox and flash versions that are available for Fedora 10 (ver 3.0.15) and flash (ver 10.1) > Just because the switches and NICs are gigabit, check that it's actually > connecting at that rate - ie not a bad cable or connection along the > line. Thank you again for this. I took a quick look and it seems that the last step of the trip (from switch to thin client) is NOT running at gigabit. Rather strange. I will take at it again in more detail to determine if it's the cable or the network card. > What color depth are you using? 32 bit is overkill and uses vastly more > resources. I went into lts.conf and uncommented X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 as it was commented out. Do you know if there is a way to test that the change has actually happened? > Make sure that the clients aren't using vesa drivers. Unfortunately a few of our clients are stuck with VESA drivers as nothing else seems to work (again I believe this is a result of running an older version of software so the drivers aren't available). In this particular case, however, the test client is NOT running with the VESA driver. > Are you > using ssh encryption on the server client connection? SSH encryption on the server-client connection has been turned off, as that was commonly cited as a bottleneck. > What screen resolution are you running on the client? Resolution is 1680x1050 set automatically. > Finally, that's way overkill for a core2duo to be the client. It could > serve 10-20 ?clients on its own. You should be running localapps or > drbl. You are correct that the machine is way overkill -- I used it for testing as a best-case scenario. It's actually a windows machine that dual-boots as a client because of its location in the school. All our other clients are Pentium II or Pentium III machines. > Regards, > William Thank you for your help -- hopefully I can figure out if there are any more issues to resolve this. Thanks, Joseph From brcisna at eazylivin.net Wed Jul 28 20:58:09 2010 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:58:09 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] spell checking hanging TC's Message-ID: <1280350689.9963.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello All, I posted this some time back and got no response. This is NOT a big deal as we have this disabled at school,,but it just has my curiosity,,,wondering. I have gotten to use Facebook quite a bit with some interest groups that are near and dear to me. The TC(s) i use work fine with pretty much any app thrown at them but when using Facebook the spell checking when submitting a message is sooo painfully slow. I am simply guessing Java is involved in the equation here,,,but I am kinda burned out out on trying to pinpoint the actual cause...:) The spell checking latency is almost 5 seconds per character, Does anyone have any idea on how to pinpoint the actual cause of this? Thanks, Barry From bmullan.mail at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 21:30:06 2010 From: bmullan.mail at gmail.com (brian mullan) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:30:06 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12OSN Digest, Vol 77, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You sound like you are assuming its a s/w or local LAN problem BUT don't forget your WAN connection to the internet. Since you are talking about watching YouTube over the internet you should verify what your internet link speed is as well as whether you are having any WAN-side problems. Initially try just doing a PING to www.youtube.com. What is your response time ? I'd probably expect sub- 60 millisecond responses. If you get something much higher then delay could be a problem. You've mentioned your LAN speeds but what is your WAN/internet link speed ? 2mbps, 10mbps, more? You will need to find out whether your WAN link is 1) at or near capacity which would cause poor video 2) having problems with errors (video is highly susceptible to dropped packets), if you can't check your internet router then ask someone to do so just to make sure you are not taking hits on your WAN interface whether that is DSL, Cable, etc. if its a cisco router you can log in and use the SHOW INTERFACE command to look for thinks like CRC errors, retransmissions etc. There are a lot of free Internet Speed test sites out there where you just click on a button and it will measure up/down speeds to the pc you are using. Try to use a legitimate site like maybe your Service Provider if they have one. Brian Mullan On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send K12OSN mailing list submissions to > k12osn at redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > k12osn-request at redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > k12osn-owner at redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of K12OSN digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Where is the bottleneck? (Joseph Bishay) > 2. Re: Where is the bottleneck? (Christian Einfeldt) > 3. Re: Where is the bottleneck? (CLIFFORD ILKAY) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:08:40 -0400 > From: Joseph Bishay > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello, > > How are you doing? I hope all is well. > > So I was recently informed by one of our staff that our LTSP > (k12Linux) system is too slow for youtube videos. Not being a youtube > person (at least at work!) I had never really tried it so I gave it a > test now. > > Setup: > Server -> gigabit card -> gigabit switch -> gigabit client (Dell > Inspiron 530 - Core 2 Duo processor 1 GB RAM) > > Ran the test when there was no one else logged into the network. Gave > the Old Spice youtube video a whirl ( > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE ) (ran it at 480p setting) > and it's horrible. It's not a video as much as a fast-flickering > slideshow. Just to put it further I ran it at full-screen mode and it > looked more like a powerpoint slide presentation than a video. > > I tried re-running the video several times, to see if having it in > memory/cache made a different but it didn't. > > So I'm not sure what is the problem. I recently purchased the gigabit > switch specifically to help speed things up but now I'm very worried. > > What do you recommend I do in order to determine the location of the > bottleneck? > > thank you > Joseph > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joseph.bishay at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 22:09:24 2010 From: joseph.bishay at gmail.com (Joseph Bishay) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:09:24 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] K12OSN Digest, Vol 77, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 5:30 PM, brian mullan wrote: > Initially try just doing a PING to www.youtube.com.??? What is your response > time ? I'd probably expect sub- 60 millisecond responses.?? If you get > something much higher then delay could be a problem. Ping shows a consistent response time of 31 ms. > You've mentioned your LAN speeds but what is your WAN/internet link speed ? > 2mbps, 10mbps, more? We are suppose to be connected with a "home business" level service. Just ran a couple of speed tests and found: (down/up speeds in kbps) 1) Bell Canada: 7912 / 779 (Toronto-based) 2) Rogers: 7850 / 969 (Toronto-based) 3) Speedtest.net: 7890 / 910 (Toronto-based) 4) DSLReports.com: 5222 / 756 (New York-based) Our internet connection runs into the building and then is managed by an IPCOP box that acts as our firewall and does caching (Squid) and filtering (Squidguard). That then plugs into a 10/100 switch that then plugs into another 10/100 switch (different floor) where the LTSP server's Internet network card plugs into. >From what I can see, we should have more than sufficient Internet bandwidth so that the bottleneck is not that part, correct? Thanks, Joseph From clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com Wed Jul 28 22:22:36 2010 From: clifford_ilkay at dinamis.com (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:22:36 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C50ADAC.4010209@dinamis.com> On 07/28/2010 06:09 PM, Joseph Bishay wrote: > From what I can see, we should have more than sufficient Internet > bandwidth so that the bottleneck is not that part, correct? What is performance like on a non-LTSP machine? I noticed that your server doesn't have much RAM. As I mentioned, Firefox is quite piggy so if your server is hitting swap, you'll definitely start dropping frames. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis 1419-3266 Yonge St. Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 From mparic at compbizsolutions.com Thu Jul 29 01:59:53 2010 From: mparic at compbizsolutions.com (Michael Paric) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:59:53 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I ran into a similar issue a couple years ago when I managed a 60-seat LTSP network at a Continuation High School here in Northern California. Good network infrastructure is critical; most everything worked really well except for multimedia. That's why I moved to DRBL instead of LTSP. If the client machines are good enough to run Firefox and YouTube, why mess with the configuration nightmare of "Local Apps"? DRBL simplifies this by pushing a standardized image to the diskless client, running everything local (NFS for /home sharing and LDAP for authentication). Using a 1500 Series Thin Client from Disklessworkstations.com and DRBL, I can run 360p YouTube videos at full frame rate (not full screen or HD, yet). It's also imperative to have the correct video drivers installed as even the mega-horsepower workstation with a gigabit network is going to exhibit the "fast-flickering" experience with the default drivers. -------------------------------------------------------- Michael Paric Computer Business Solutions 888-859-9799 x501 mparic at compbizsolutions.com www.compbizsolutions.com From william at fragakis.com Thu Jul 29 17:25:44 2010 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:25:44 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1280424344.15567.70.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:00 -0400, k12osn-request at redhat.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:34:22 -0400 > From: Joseph Bishay > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Where is the bottleneck? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello, > > Thank you for all your recommendations in your email. > [snip] > > Things to check: versions of Flash and Firefox. Each edition gets > better > > and faster. > > That may be part of the issue - because there has been no new release > of K12Linux, I am stuck running the Firefox and flash versions that > are available for Fedora 10 (ver 3.0.15) and flash (ver > 10.1) If you are daring, you can sequentially update to newer versions of Fedora. Your version has rolled off the edge i.e. it's not getting updates anymore but you probably already knew that. Barring that, F12 still had all the bits and pieces of LTSP in that if you want to load that up on a spare hard or usb drive. > [snip] > > What color depth are you using? 32 bit is overkill and uses vastly > more > > resources. > > I went into lts.conf and uncommented X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 as it was > commented out. Do you know if there is a way to test that the change > has actually happened? Must confess ignorance on that one save going through the xorg files on the client. If you run the update scripts on the server (especially if you are using the compressed image), and have rebooted the client, you should be goo. > > > Make sure that the clients aren't using vesa drivers. [more snips] > What screen resolution are you running on the client? > > Resolution is 1680x1050 set automatically. That's a lot of real estate to pump over the network - just factor that in when comparing the performance of this box vs. the ones you are likely to use. > > > Finally, that's way overkill for a core2duo to be the client. It > could > > serve 10-20 ?clients on its own. You should be running localapps or > > drbl. > > You are correct that the machine is way overkill -- I used it for > testing as a best-case scenario. It's actually a windows machine that > dual-boots as a client because of its location in the school. All our > other clients are Pentium II or Pentium III machines. > In that case, you are using it more optimally than the base case ;-) Regards, William > > > From brcisna at eazylivin.net Fri Jul 30 14:46:40 2010 From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:46:40 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] spell checking hanging TC's Message-ID: <1280501200.9963.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello All, Just doing a follow up post in regards to some findings to my initial post of spell checking hanging TC's .I should clarify that the TC's are not hanged to the point they lock up, they simply become so slow the keystrokes,are 3-4 seconds showing within a couple spell checking apps. I have roughly been able to reproduce the snafoo I am seeing in a couple web based sessions. I setup Tomcat5 / RED5 with some demo apps that are provided --- Webapps---. It does in fact appear that the native java built into Tomcat really sucks resources and simply guessing it is memory related. Although even theorizing this, I really don't know how it could be resolved. Even on a standalone 'high end' pc,,it is noticable as well,be it linux or winders. These same low end TC's can run Youtube fine, for example. Kinda strange. I'm sure video memory is in the equation here somehow as well? Lot of theorys but really no workaround,I guess,bottom line. Take Care, BC