From jsfagliarone at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 01:24:55 2014 From: jsfagliarone at gmail.com (Joe Fagliarone) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 20:24:55 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: <1393429562.21033.22.camel@server.ltsp> References: <1393429562.21033.22.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: Thank you very much for the info. I am currently supporting a school environment that is running k12linux on centos. The hardware is very old and I am looking to be prepared to upgrade as necessary. Thank you! Joe Fagliarone On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 10:46 AM, William Fragakis wrote: > We've recently found a number of off-lease and refurb i686 hp clients > (as opposed to the earlier Cyrix, etc. which require an i386 boot > image). These are primarily the t5730/35 and t5740/45 with Sempron and > Atom processors respectively. The 5740 doesn't play well with EL 6.4 and > earlier so you may need to create a boot image like we did from Debian. > > A number of these units have embedded WinXP so as XP sunsets this year, > you may see more of them appearing. > > If you buy lots on ebay, you can get them from anywhere from $25-60 per > unit shipped. Just make sure they include power supplies. The 574x run > more because of the Atom cpu but both models tend to come with 1-2gb RAM > often with stands and even keyboards and mice. The 573x are also a touch > larger. > > Refurb desktops aren't much more and readily available, too, but use > more space and power. > > Regards, > William > - sent from my t5740 running K12Linux > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:18:18 -0500 > > From: Jeff Siddall > > To: k12osn at redhat.com > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp > > Message-ID: <530B8CEA.9000602 at siddall.name> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > On 02/24/2014 07:33 AM, Joe Fagliarone wrote: > > > Hello all. This is my first post here. I have enjoyed reading (and > > > learning) all the other posts. Great information. > > > > > > I have a centos 6.3 and k12 ltsp environment. > > > > > > I currently have thin clients that are old (almost 10 years) and are in > > > need of replacement. Parts are breaking due to age and are harder to > > > come by. I have been getting parts on amazon and other sites. > > > > > > However I wanted to hear what kind of hardware are you using for your > > > thin clients. > > > > > > WYSE > > > HP > > > Self-configured thin clients. > > > > Self configured for me. I could never find any off the shelf clients > > that had everything I wanted at a reasonable price. > > > > By far my favorite all-around client has been the D945GSEJT with Morex > > T1610 case: > > > > http://www.silentpcreview.com/Intel_D945GSEJT_with_Morex_T1610 > > > > Thin, fanless, easy to assemble, reliable, well supported. The only > > thing wrong with them is the GPU which really can't do anything > accelerated. > > > > For boxes where I needed proper 3D support I went with a Zotac IONITX > board. > > > > Sadly the D945GSEJT is now EOS and the Intel replacements I last looked > > into (granted a while ago) all had issues with Linux GPU drivers. > > > > Something like this may still be a viable option though: > > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173032 > > > > However, it lacks the fanless aspect and is significantly more power > hungry. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > > > End of K12OSN Digest, Vol 115, Issue 11 > > *************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 12:53:15 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 07:53:15 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: References: <1393429562.21033.22.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: This was just shared on another list I'm on. http://nanopc.org/NanoPC-T1_Feature.html It's arm so it gets treated a bit different. With 4G flash storage, it makes sense to preload a base OS that does the remote X back to a CentOS server. At $70, it's cheap enough to tinker with. On Mar 4, 2014 8:28 PM, "Joe Fagliarone" wrote: > Thank you very much for the info. I am currently supporting a school > environment that is running k12linux on centos. The hardware is very old > and I am looking to be prepared to upgrade as necessary. > > Thank you! > > Joe Fagliarone > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 10:46 AM, William Fragakis wrote: > >> We've recently found a number of off-lease and refurb i686 hp clients >> (as opposed to the earlier Cyrix, etc. which require an i386 boot >> image). These are primarily the t5730/35 and t5740/45 with Sempron and >> Atom processors respectively. The 5740 doesn't play well with EL 6.4 and >> earlier so you may need to create a boot image like we did from Debian. >> >> A number of these units have embedded WinXP so as XP sunsets this year, >> you may see more of them appearing. >> >> If you buy lots on ebay, you can get them from anywhere from $25-60 per >> unit shipped. Just make sure they include power supplies. The 574x run >> more because of the Atom cpu but both models tend to come with 1-2gb RAM >> often with stands and even keyboards and mice. The 573x are also a touch >> larger. >> >> Refurb desktops aren't much more and readily available, too, but use >> more space and power. >> >> Regards, >> William >> - sent from my t5740 running K12Linux >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 13:18:18 -0500 >> > From: Jeff Siddall >> > To: k12osn at redhat.com >> > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp >> > Message-ID: <530B8CEA.9000602 at siddall.name> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> > >> > On 02/24/2014 07:33 AM, Joe Fagliarone wrote: >> > > Hello all. This is my first post here. I have enjoyed reading (and >> > > learning) all the other posts. Great information. >> > > >> > > I have a centos 6.3 and k12 ltsp environment. >> > > >> > > I currently have thin clients that are old (almost 10 years) and are >> in >> > > need of replacement. Parts are breaking due to age and are harder to >> > > come by. I have been getting parts on amazon and other sites. >> > > >> > > However I wanted to hear what kind of hardware are you using for your >> > > thin clients. >> > > >> > > WYSE >> > > HP >> > > Self-configured thin clients. >> > >> > Self configured for me. I could never find any off the shelf clients >> > that had everything I wanted at a reasonable price. >> > >> > By far my favorite all-around client has been the D945GSEJT with Morex >> > T1610 case: >> > >> > http://www.silentpcreview.com/Intel_D945GSEJT_with_Morex_T1610 >> > >> > Thin, fanless, easy to assemble, reliable, well supported. The only >> > thing wrong with them is the GPU which really can't do anything >> accelerated. >> > >> > For boxes where I needed proper 3D support I went with a Zotac IONITX >> board. >> > >> > Sadly the D945GSEJT is now EOS and the Intel replacements I last looked >> > into (granted a while ago) all had issues with Linux GPU drivers. >> > >> > Something like this may still be a viable option though: >> > >> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173032 >> > >> > However, it lacks the fanless aspect and is significantly more power >> hungry. >> > >> > Jeff >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > K12OSN mailing list >> > K12OSN at redhat.com >> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> > >> > End of K12OSN Digest, Vol 115, Issue 11 >> > *************************************** >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From news at siddall.name Wed Mar 5 13:59:15 2014 From: news at siddall.name (Jeff Siddall) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 08:59:15 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: References: <1393429562.21033.22.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: <53172DB3.2000507@siddall.name> On 03/05/2014 07:53 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > This was just shared on another list I'm on. > > http://nanopc.org/NanoPC-T1_Feature.html > > It's arm so it gets treated a bit different. With 4G flash storage, it > makes sense to preload a base OS that does the remote X back to a CentOS > server. At $70, it's cheap enough to tinker with. If you are looking for really inexpensive how about a Raspberry Pi at $25? http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php There are some downsides to consider, especially on the administrative side, since they clients are technically no longer thin. Jeff From lesmikesell at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 16:18:28 2014 From: lesmikesell at gmail.com (Les Mikesell) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 10:18:28 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: References: <1393429562.21033.22.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > This was just shared on another list I'm on. > > http://nanopc.org/NanoPC-T1_Feature.html > > It's arm so it gets treated a bit different. With 4G flash storage, it makes > sense to preload a base OS that does the remote X back to a CentOS server. Does anyone have a recommendation for a minimal OS distribution (arm or x86) that can boot into x2go? -- Les Mikesell lesmikesell at gmail.com From william at fragakis.com Wed Mar 5 17:55:52 2014 From: william at fragakis.com (William Fragakis) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 12:55:52 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1394042152.28529.118.camel@server.ltsp> Jim, Could one build an arm client image off of a present Fedora version? Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong, the base Pi board is $25-30, and then you need those little optional bits like case, power adapter, most likely hdmi to whatever your monitor is converter, etc. Kits I've seen put it around $65-70 for something you can plug in and power on. regards, William > On 03/05/2014 07:53 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > This was just shared on another list I'm on. > > > > http://nanopc.org/NanoPC-T1_Feature.html > > > > It's arm so it gets treated a bit different. With 4G flash storage, > it > > makes sense to preload a base OS that does the remote X back to a > CentOS > > server. At $70, it's cheap enough to tinker with. > > If you are looking for really inexpensive how about a Raspberry Pi at > $25? > > http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php > > There are some downsides to consider, especially on the > administrative > side, since they clients are technically no longer thin. > > Jeff > > From cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us Wed Mar 5 19:12:26 2014 From: cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us (Barry Cisna) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 13:12:26 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp Message-ID: <1394046747.14514.2.camel@localhost> Hello All, Jim Kinney, or anyone. Have you tried the nanopc units that you mentioned in your post? Is the performance acceptable for web browsing and Youtubes,flash,etc? If so these look hard to beat for the physical size,and simplicity Thank You, Barry From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 20:22:53 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 15:22:53 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: <1394042152.28529.118.camel@server.ltsp> References: <1394042152.28529.118.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: William, I've not built one. However, there _is_ a fedora image for arm: http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora#arm pidora is a fedora specifically for Raspi. Not: all that is needed for LTSP is the kernel, libs, sound, X and libs and network. The server will still run x86_64 code I'm giving a hard look at the BeagleBone Black (all open source hardware!) and less than the nanopc ($65 including case and power brick from adafruit) http://www.adafruit.com/category/75 Fedora has a full distro for it. I'm nowhere near ready but I'm seeing mental happy lights with a tiny box that runs local code to get a web page connect to a OVIRT login page. A bit of tweaking at a local arm-based spice client and these tiny boxes run a full VM distro (build 1 and clone the rest for maintenance ease and shared code for slim running) with a web-based management tool that is pretty easy to maintain dozens to hundreds of VMs. Sound _JustWorks_. USB _JustWorks_. On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 12:55 PM, William Fragakis wrote: > Jim, > Could one build an arm client image off of a present Fedora version? > > Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong, the base Pi board is $25-30, and then you > need those little optional bits like case, power adapter, most likely > hdmi to whatever your monitor is converter, etc. Kits I've seen put it > around $65-70 for something you can plug in and power on. > > regards, > William > > > On 03/05/2014 07:53 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > This was just shared on another list I'm on. > > > > > > http://nanopc.org/NanoPC-T1_Feature.html > > > > > > It's arm so it gets treated a bit different. With 4G flash storage, > > it > > > makes sense to preload a base OS that does the remote X back to a > > CentOS > > > server. At $70, it's cheap enough to tinker with. > > > > If you are looking for really inexpensive how about a Raspberry Pi at > > $25? > > > > http://www.berryterminal.com/doku.php > > > > There are some downsides to consider, especially on the > > administrative > > side, since they clients are technically no longer thin. > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 20:26:17 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2014 15:26:17 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: <1394046747.14514.2.camel@localhost> References: <1394046747.14514.2.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Barry, I don't have one. I have a tablet with about 1/2 the horsepower as that cpu. It's usable for web work. I loaded the spice client and can connect and run remove VM's if I plug in a keyboard. tablet was $80 at Target. Don't recall the brand (it's at home). Note: those NanoPCs seem to only have hdmi output for video. On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Barry Cisna wrote: > Hello All, > > Jim Kinney, or anyone. Have you tried the nanopc units that you > mentioned in your post? Is the performance acceptable for web browsing > and Youtubes,flash,etc? If so these look hard to beat for the physical > size,and simplicity > > Thank You, > Barry > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From news at siddall.name Thu Mar 6 16:19:38 2014 From: news at siddall.name (Jeff Siddall) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 11:19:38 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: <1394042152.28529.118.camel@server.ltsp> References: <1394042152.28529.118.camel@server.ltsp> Message-ID: <5318A01A.8050905@siddall.name> On 03/05/2014 12:55 PM, William Fragakis wrote: > Jim, > Could one build an arm client image off of a present Fedora version? > > Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong, the base Pi board is $25-30, and then you > need those little optional bits like case, power adapter, most likely > hdmi to whatever your monitor is converter, etc. Kits I've seen put it > around $65-70 for something you can plug in and power on. Yes, definitely more than $25 when all is said and done. For a thin client you are probably better off with the extra RAM and onboard wired Ethernet of the B model at $35. Add to that a USB power supply ($5), a case ($8) and a SD card ($7) and you are at $55. Since all clients will require a keyboard, mouse and monitor I have not included accessories in the cost of the client itself. If you consider shipping the Pi is also likely to save some money over things like the nanopc given the local distributors. Still, things like performance, sound, VGA, PXE, localapps etc. are all missing from the ARM clients I have seen. For about $65 more you can get an x86 client that can do all those things: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135368 ($62) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811208056 ($35) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226018 ($23) Of course more power, bigger, noisier etc. It's all about tradeoffs. Personally I run only x86 clients. Jeff From sergio.chaves at gmail.com Thu Mar 6 23:22:56 2014 From: sergio.chaves at gmail.com (Sergio Chaves) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 18:22:56 -0500 Subject: [K12OSN] Thin Client Hardware for k12ltsp In-Reply-To: <5318A01A.8050905@siddall.name> References: <1394042152.28529.118.camel@server.ltsp> <5318A01A.8050905@siddall.name> Message-ID: I have ordered 02 of the Cubox-i2 to play with - http://cubox-i.com/table/ . Check the videos and screenshots, looks real promising to me. Sergio On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Jeff Siddall wrote: > On 03/05/2014 12:55 PM, William Fragakis wrote: > >> Jim, >> Could one build an arm client image off of a present Fedora version? >> >> Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong, the base Pi board is $25-30, and then you >> need those little optional bits like case, power adapter, most likely >> hdmi to whatever your monitor is converter, etc. Kits I've seen put it >> around $65-70 for something you can plug in and power on. >> > > Yes, definitely more than $25 when all is said and done. For a thin > client you are probably better off with the extra RAM and onboard wired > Ethernet of the B model at $35. Add to that a USB power supply ($5), a > case ($8) and a SD card ($7) and you are at $55. Since all clients will > require a keyboard, mouse and monitor I have not included accessories in > the cost of the client itself. > > If you consider shipping the Pi is also likely to save some money over > things like the nanopc given the local distributors. > > Still, things like performance, sound, VGA, PXE, localapps etc. are all > missing from the ARM clients I have seen. > > For about $65 more you can get an x86 client that can do all those things: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135368 ($62) > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811208056 ($35) > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226018 ($23) > > Of course more power, bigger, noisier etc. It's all about tradeoffs. > > Personally I run only x86 clients. > > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Mon Mar 31 07:43:53 2014 From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be (johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:43:53 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [K12OSN] usb not working Message-ID: <1837236393.46856151.1396251833488.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> Dear All, since the last major change in k12Linux, I'm doing an alternative install because with the newest image, our thinclients do not work. So I configure dhcpd, tftp and so on, and copy over /opt/ltsp and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp This works great, except I can't get usb to work. So how does usb on k12Linux actually work behind the scene ? Thanks for any advise. greetings, J. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl Mon Mar 31 07:56:16 2014 From: radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl (Radek Bursztynowski) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:56:16 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] usb not working In-Reply-To: <1837236393.46856151.1396251833488.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> Message-ID: <29109766.21396252576661.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Hi, Did you remebmer to add users to fuse group on the server? Regards, Radek ------ Dear All, since the last major change in k12Linux, I'm doing an alternative install because with the newest image, our thinclients do not work. So I configure dhcpd, tftp and so on, and copy over /opt/ltsp and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp This works great, except I can't get usb to work. So how does usb on k12Linux actually work behind the scene ? Thanks for any advise. greetings, J. _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; From johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Mon Mar 31 16:22:40 2014 From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be (johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 18:22:40 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [K12OSN] usb not working In-Reply-To: <29109766.21396252576661.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> References: <29109766.21396252576661.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Message-ID: <483894773.47742194.1396282960523.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> hallo, thanks for the reaction. Yes, I added the users to the fuse group. Regards, j. ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Radek Bursztynowski" Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." , "Support list for open source software in schools." Verzonden: Maandag 31 maart 2014 09:56:16 Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] usb not working Hi, Did you remebmer to add users to fuse group on the server? Regards, Radek ------ Dear All, since the last major change in k12Linux, I'm doing an alternative install because with the newest image, our thinclients do not work. So I configure dhcpd, tftp and so on, and copy over /opt/ltsp and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp This works great, except I can't get usb to work. So how does usb on k12Linux actually work behind the scene ? Thanks for any advise. greetings, J. _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl Mon Mar 31 17:29:39 2014 From: radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl (Radek Bursztynowski) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:29:39 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] usb not working In-Reply-To: <483894773.47742194.1396282960523.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> References: <29109766.21396252576661.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Message-ID: <1396286979.16858.2.camel@alpaga.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Hello, Can you see any davice connected to USB port on thin client terminal? You can check it by tail -f /var/log/messages on local xterm or shell runs on thin client terminal. Regards, Radek ----- > hallo, > > thanks for the reaction. > > Yes, I added the users to the fuse group. > > Regards, j. > > ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- > Van: "Radek Bursztynowski" > Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." , "Support list for open source software in schools." > Verzonden: Maandag 31 maart 2014 09:56:16 > Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] usb not working > > Hi, > > Did you remebmer to add users to fuse group on the server? > > Regards, > Radek > > ------ > Dear All, > > since the last major change in k12Linux, I'm doing an alternative install because with the newest image, our thinclients do not work. > > So I configure dhcpd, tftp and so on, and copy over /opt/ltsp and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp > This works great, except I can't get usb to work. > > So how does usb on k12Linux actually work behind the scene ? > > Thanks for any advise. > > greetings, J. > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see ; > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see