From radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl Wed Jul 1 11:51:47 2015 From: radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl (Radek Bursztynowski) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 13:51:47 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: <1023066163.243851947.1435651209320.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> Message-ID: <9501531.201435751507446.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } Hello, I agree with Johan. I have more than 3 years experience with K12Linux and I am very satisfied with K12Linux. I use CentOS 6.x and tests CentOS 7. Regarding video I see limitations LTSP, but in my opinion it isn't essential prinfold. Let me express my observations: On LTSP web site I found information that video could take up to 70 Mb/s. My test showed that video takes up to 130 Mb/s. LTSP terminal doesn't cache video because LTSP terminal presents the video proces running on the server. So, we can say that about 10 users watchnig video on LTSP terminals fullill gigabit Ethernet. It is real limitation, but this limitation concerns not only LTSP, but all similar solutions, where users use thin cliet architecture. What can be done to solve it? I see two areas of activity: 1) The extension of the band trasmission between the server and LTSP terminals. But in this case we should remember, that all users (not only LTSP users) are limited by the gateway. This solution is not very difficult and is not expensive (I don't think about 10 Gb/s Ethernet now). It is real. Let me add, that we can add to LTSP thin client image codecs and video player and use video player locally on LTSP terminal. In this case mentioned above limitation are fetched to the same situation like with standard PC. 2) To understand that LTSP solution is not addressed to all using. I estimate that LTSP solution could be sufficient fot 70% users, in particular for office users. If the user should to perform some special tasks equip him with PC or workstation. If the user is standard office user LTSP solution will be enough. Let say that most of us move from one flat to another one including our furniture few times in our live. It isn't the reason to buy the truck instead of automobile ? most of us buys automobile, not trucks. In my country, particular in public sector, people practice in IT area strange philosophy. All of them need the trucks! I try to explain them ? if you are buying the computers using own money ? it is your choice, your responsibility, your expens. But if you are money disposer only you must to match the tool to the tasks. But they still buy the trucks! I see, that quote appended by Johan aussmes that all people, all workers watch videos all working day! Am i right? Best regards, Radek ----- Original Message ----- From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Sent: Tue, 6/30/2015 10:00am To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted Hello, I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and I am about to ugrade a second, larger site as well. I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I don't agree with this: Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution. I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on K12Linux. What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. greetings, Johan _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; From warren at togami.com Wed Jul 1 15:09:42 2015 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami Jr.) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 08:09:42 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: <1023066163.243851947.1435651209320.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> References: <1023066163.243851947.1435651209320.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> Message-ID: Disagree all you want. If no developer is willing to do the work, then it cannot happen. On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, wrote: > Hello, > > I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and > I am about to ugrade a second, larger > site as well. > > I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I > don't agree with this: > > *Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because > video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, > and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is > considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks > and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to > more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is > not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution.* > > > I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is > not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on > K12Linux. > What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on > Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. > > I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly > robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. > > greetings, Johan > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Wed Jul 1 15:24:36 2015 From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be (johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 17:24:36 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: References: <1023066163.243851947.1435651209320.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> Message-ID: <2071860006.248488660.1435764276948.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Warren Togami Jr." Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 17:09:42 Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted Disagree all you want. If no developer is willing to do the work, then it cannot happen. On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, < johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be > wrote: Hello, I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and I am about to ugrade a second, larger site as well. I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I don't agree with this: Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution. I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on K12Linux. What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. greetings, Johan Warren, Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work". Now it says K12Linux is legacy. And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux. What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not legacy, It works. Greetings, Johan
_______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see < http://www.k12os.org >
_______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Wed Jul 1 15:43:55 2015 From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be (johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 17:43:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: <9501531.201435751507446.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> References: <9501531.201435751507446.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Message-ID: <198402461.248543519.1435765435258.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> Hello, I agree especially with the analogy with the truck. And even more if it's the tax payers money. Let me just add: Centos7 is much faster then Centos6. Let's face it, that is important to desktop users. This is not the time to drive people to other distro's. With that I'm not saying that any distro is better than another distro. Greetings, Johan ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Radek Bursztynowski" Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." , "Support list for open source software in schools." Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 13:51:47 Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } Hello, I agree with Johan. I have more than 3 years experience with K12Linux and I am very satisfied with K12Linux. I use CentOS 6.x and tests CentOS 7. Regarding video I see limitations LTSP, but in my opinion it isn't essential prinfold. Let me express my observations: On LTSP web site I found information that video could take up to 70 Mb/s. My test showed that video takes up to 130 Mb/s. LTSP terminal doesn't cache video because LTSP terminal presents the video proces running on the server. So, we can say that about 10 users watchnig video on LTSP terminals fullill gigabit Ethernet. It is real limitation, but this limitation concerns not only LTSP, but all similar solutions, where users use thin cliet architecture. What can be done to solve it? I see two areas of activity: 1) The extension of the band trasmission between the server and LTSP terminals. But in this case we should remember, that all users (not only LTSP users) are limited by the gateway. This solution is not very difficult and is not expensive (I don't think about 10 Gb/s Ethernet now). It is real. Let me add, that we can add to LTSP thin client image codecs and video player and use video player locally on LTSP terminal. In this case mentioned above limitation are fetched to the same situation like with standard PC. 2) To understand that LTSP solution is not addressed to all using. I estimate that LTSP solution could be sufficient fot 70% users, in particular for office users. If the user should to perform some special tasks equip him with PC or workstation. If the user is standard office user LTSP solution will be enough. Let say that most of us move from one flat to another one including our furniture few times in our live. It isn't the reason to buy the truck instead of automobile ? most of us buys automobile, not trucks. In my country, particular in public sector, people practice in IT area strange philosophy. All of them need the trucks! I try to explain them ? if you are buying the computers using own money ? it is your choice, your responsibility, your expens. But if you are money disposer only you must to match the tool to the tasks. But they still buy the trucks! I see, that quote appended by Johan aussmes that all people, all workers watch videos all working day! Am i right? Best regards, Radek ----- Original Message ----- From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Sent: Tue, 6/30/2015 10:00am To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted Hello, I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and I am about to ugrade a second, larger site as well. I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I don't agree with this: Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution. I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on K12Linux. What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. greetings, Johan _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 19:10:15 2015 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 15:10:15 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: <2071860006.248488660.1435764276948.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> References: <1023066163.243851947.1435651209320.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> <2071860006.248488660.1435764276948.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> Message-ID: <1435777815.4438.11.camel@gmail.com> On Wed, 2015-07-01 at 17:24 +0200, johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be wrote: > > > Van: "Warren Togami Jr." > Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." < > k12osn at redhat.com> > Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 17:09:42 > Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted > > Disagree all you want. If no developer is willing to do the work, > then it cannot happen. > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on > > Centos7 and I am about to ugrade a second, larger > > site as well. > > > > I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to > > say I don't agree with this: > > > > Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client > > because video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over > > remote X desktops, and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels > > is rather poor. K12Linux is considered a legacy solution for > > existing deployments of LTSP-type networks and is currently > > supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to more modern > > systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is not > > considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP > > solution. > > > > > > I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first > > priority is not watching youtube, all though my users have no > > problems with that on K12Linux. > > What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on > > Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. > > > > I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's > > incredibly robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. > > > > greetings, Johan > > > Warren, > > Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work". > Now it says K12Linux is legacy. > > And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux. > > What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not > legacy, It works. Legacy doesn't mean it doesn't work. It simply means no further development will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program becomes legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get superseded by newer projects. K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7 ready will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well. I think it's time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar result. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin client should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM running on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push screen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X over SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech support to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus only require updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to provide a single sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM console (which then auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client (spice) can be 32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware and it supports USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works. 3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2 layers of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops. I started a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly and with sound synched to the video. As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports "memory ballooning", different VMs that need to use the same block of memory can share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and thus can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Best of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an application crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared memory. > > Greetings, Johan> > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl Thu Jul 2 07:16:43 2015 From: radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl (Radek Bursztynowski) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 09:16:43 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: <1435777815.4438.11.camel@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5573072.241435821403541.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } Jim, Thanks you for your clear explanation. It means, that there are two separated cases. The first one is the K12Linux's usefulness and the second one closing down the project. In spite of K12Linux's usefulness this project is shutting down. Is it appropriate understanding? If yes, I regret. I don't evaluate why, but I regret. Are there any chances to reanimate K12Linux project? Best regards, Radek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kinney" Sent: Wed, 7/1/2015 9:10pm To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted On Wed, 2015-07-01 at 17:24 +0200, johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be wrote: Van: "Warren Togami Jr." Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 17:09:42 Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted Disagree all you want. If no developer is willing to do the work, then it cannot happen. On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, wrote: Hello, I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and I am about to ugrade a second, larger site as well. I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I don't agree with this: Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution. I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on K12Linux. What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. greetings, Johan Warren, Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work". Now it says K12Linux is legacy. And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux. What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not legacy, It works. Legacy doesn't mean it doesn't work. It simply means no further development will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program becomes legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get superseded by newer projects. K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7 ready will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well. I think it's time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar result. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin client should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM running on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push screen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X over SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech support to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus only require updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to provide a single sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM console (which then auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client (spice) can be 32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware and it supports USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works. 3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2 layers of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops. I started a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly and with sound synched to the video. As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports "memory ballooning", different VMs that need to use the same block of memory can share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and thus can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Best of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an application crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared memory. Greetings, Johan _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 11:03:19 2015 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 07:03:19 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: <5573072.241435821403541.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> References: <1435777815.4438.11.camel@gmail.com> <5573072.241435821403541.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Message-ID: In order to develop K12Linux further, it will require developers. Warren brought it from Centos 5 to Centos 6. He did this working alone. To migrate it to Centos 7 will require new developers to step forward and take over. I don't think Warren is interested. It was hoped that RedHat would pick up K12linux. That doesn't seem to be an option any more as their focus is on VM technology. I can't take on this myself for many reasons. The main one is I see the spice/VM process as a better successor. My day job has me swamped so my time is zero. On Jul 2, 2015 3:20 AM, "Radek Bursztynowski" wrote: > > > > > > > p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } > > > Jim, > > > Thanks you for your > clear explanation. It means, that there are two separated cases. The > first one is the K12Linux's usefulness and the second one closing > down the project. In spite of K12Linux's usefulness this project is > shutting down. Is it appropriate understanding? > > > If yes, I regret. I > don't evaluate why, but I regret. > > > Are there any > chances to reanimate K12Linux project? > > > Best regards, > > Radek > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Kinney" > Sent: Wed, 7/1/2015 9:10pm > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted > > On Wed, 2015-07-01 at 17:24 +0200, johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be wrote: > > Van: "Warren Togami Jr." > Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." < > k12osn at redhat.com> > Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 17:09:42 > Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted > > Disagree all you want. If no developer is willing to do the work, then it > cannot happen. > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, wrote: > Hello, > > I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and > I am about to ugrade a second, larger > site as well. > > I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I > don't agree with this: > > Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because > video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, > and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is > considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks > and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to > more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is > not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution. > > I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is > not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on > K12Linux. > What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on > Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. > > I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly > robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. > > greetings, Johan > > Warren, > > Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work". > Now it says K12Linux is legacy. > > And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux. > > What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not > legacy, It works. > > Legacy doesn't mean it doesn't work. It simply means no further > development will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program > becomes legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get > superseded by newer projects. > K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7 > ready will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will > be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well. > I think it's time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar > result. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs > to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin > client should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM > running on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push > screen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X > over SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech > support to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus > only require updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to > provide a single sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM > console (which then auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client > (spice) can be 32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware > and it supports USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works. > 3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2 > layers of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops. > I started a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly > and with sound synched to the video. > As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports "memory > ballooning", different VMs that need to use the same block of memory can > share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and thus > can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Best > of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an application > crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared > memory. > > Greetings, Johan > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his > own tail. It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see ; > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl Thu Jul 2 12:49:52 2015 From: radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl (Radek Bursztynowski) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 14:49:52 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted Message-ID: <20068393.301435841392614.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Many thanks for information. Does Ubuntu stilll develop LTSP? And what about SUSE-KIWI? Best regards, Radek ------ In order to develop K12Linux further, it will require developers. Warren brought it from Centos 5 to Centos 6. He did this working alone. To migrate it to Centos 7 will require new developers to step forward and take over. I don't think Warren is interested. It was hoped that RedHat would pick up K12linux. That doesn't seem to be an option any more as their focus is on VM technology. I can't take on this myself for many reasons. The main one is I see the spice/VM process as a better successor. My day job has me swamped so my time is zero. On Jul 2, 2015 3:20 AM, "Radek Bursztynowski" wrote: p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } Jim, Thanks you for your clear explanation. It means, that there are two separated cases. The first one is the K12Linux's usefulness and the second one closing down the project. In spite of K12Linux's usefulness this project is shutting down. Is it appropriate understanding? If yes, I regret. I don't evaluate why, but I regret. Are there any chances to reanimate K12Linux project? Best regards, Radek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kinney" Sent: Wed, 7/1/2015 9:10pm To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted On Wed, 2015-07-01 at 17:24 +0200, johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be wrote: Van: "Warren Togami Jr." Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 17:09:42 Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted Disagree all you want. If no developer is willing to do the work, then it cannot happen. On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, wrote: Hello, I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and I am about to ugrade a second, larger site as well. I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I don't agree with this: Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution. I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on K12Linux. What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. greetings, Johan Warren, Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work". Now it says K12Linux is legacy. And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux. What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not legacy, It works. Legacy doesn't mean it doesn't work. It simply means no further development will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program becomes legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get superseded by newer projects. K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7 ready will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well. I think it's time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar result. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin client should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM running on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push screen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X over SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech support to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus only require updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to provide a single sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM console (which then auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client (spice) can be 32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware and it supports USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works. 3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2 layers of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops. I started a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly and with sound synched to the video. As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports "memory ballooning", different VMs that need to use the same block of memory can share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and thus can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Best of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an application crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared memory. Greetings, Johan _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 13:48:05 2015 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 09:48:05 -0400 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: <20068393.301435841392614.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> References: <20068393.301435841392614.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Message-ID: I don't use either of those so I can't answer that. On Jul 2, 2015 8:49 AM, "Radek Bursztynowski" wrote: > Many thanks for information. > > Does Ubuntu stilll develop LTSP? And what about SUSE-KIWI? > > Best regards, > Radek > > ------ > > In order to develop K12Linux further, it will require developers. Warren > brought it from Centos 5 to Centos 6. He did this working alone. To migrate > it to Centos 7 will require new developers to step forward and take over. I > don't think Warren is interested. It was hoped that RedHat would pick up > K12linux. That doesn't seem to be an option any more as their focus is on > VM technology. > > I can't take on this myself for many reasons. The main one is I see the > spice/VM process as a better successor. My day job has me swamped so my > time is zero. > > On Jul 2, 2015 3:20 AM, "Radek Bursztynowski" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > Thanks you for your > > clear explanation. It means, that there are two separated cases. The > > first one is the K12Linux's usefulness and the second one closing > > down the project. In spite of K12Linux's usefulness this project is > > shutting down. Is it appropriate understanding? > > > > > > If yes, I regret. I > > don't evaluate why, but I regret. > > > > > > Are there any > > chances to reanimate K12Linux project? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Radek > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Kinney" > > Sent: Wed, 7/1/2015 9:10pm > > To: "Support list for open source software in schools." > > > Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted > > > > On Wed, 2015-07-01 at 17:24 +0200, johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be wrote: > > > > Van: "Warren Togami Jr." > > Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." < > k12osn at redhat.com> > > Verzonden: Woensdag 1 juli 2015 17:09:42 > > Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted > > > > Disagree all you want. If no developer is willing to do the work, then it > cannot happen. > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:00 AM, wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have good results on our first site where we run K12Linux on Centos7 and > I am about to ugrade a second, larger > > site as well. > > > > I just had a look at the K12Linux website again and just wanted to say I > don't agree with this: > > > > Modern users probably do not want to use this type of thin client because > video (like Youtube) requires too much bandwidth over remote X desktops, > and scalability of X over ssh encrypted tunnels is rather poor. K12Linux is > considered a legacy solution for existing deployments of LTSP-type networks > and is currently supported only on the legacy EPEL6 platform. Porting to > more modern systemd-based Fedora and EPEL7 is technically possible but is > not considered a priority given the drawbacks of the legacy LTSP solution. > > > > I think a lot of organsisations have employees who 's first priority is > not watching youtube, all though my users have no problems with that on > K12Linux. > > What hurts me is that because people can not get this to work on > Centos7/Rhel7, they are moving to Ubuntu. > > > > I have K12Linux/Centos6 running for about 3 years, and it's incredibly > robust. And I think it's the same on Centos7. > > > > greetings, Johan > > > > Warren, > > > > Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work". > > Now it says K12Linux is legacy. > > > > And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux. > > > > What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not > legacy, It works. > > > > Legacy doesn't mean it doesn't work. It simply means no further > development will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program > becomes legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get > superseded by newer projects. > > K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7 > ready will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will > be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well. > > I think it's time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar > result. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs > to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin > client should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM > running on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push > screen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X > over SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech > support to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus > only require updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to > provide a single sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM > console (which then auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client > (spice) can be 32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware > and it supports USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works. > > 3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2 > layers of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops. > I started a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly > and with sound synched to the video. > > As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports "memory > ballooning", different VMs that need to use the same block of memory can > share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and thus > can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Best > of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an application > crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared > memory. > > > > Greetings, Johan > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see -- > > James P. Kinney III > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > > gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his > > own tail. It won't fatten the dog. > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see ; > > > > _______________________________________________ > > K12OSN mailing list > > K12OSN at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > > For more info see > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see ; > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From warren at togami.com Thu Jul 2 16:07:01 2015 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami Jr.) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 09:07:01 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: <1435777815.4438.11.camel@gmail.com> References: <1023066163.243851947.1435651209320.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> <2071860006.248488660.1435764276948.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> <1435777815.4438.11.camel@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Warren, > > Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work". > Now it says K12Linux is legacy. > > And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux. > > What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not > legacy, It works. > > > Legacy doesn't mean it doesn't work. It simply means no further > development will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program > becomes legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get > superseded by newer projects. > > K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7 > ready will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will > be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well. > Thank you. You understand the situation exactly. CentOS 7 actually contains all the same components as CentOS 6 but in a different form. It would be theoretically possible to adapt those pieces to work in the same manner as CentOS 6. There would be drawbacks though ... like CentOS 7 is x86_64 only, so the client OS would no longer be able to be built from the same OS as the server. > > I think it's time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar > result. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs > to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin > client should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM > running on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push > screen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X > over SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech > support to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus > only require updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to > provide a single sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM > console (which then auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client > (spice) can be 32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware > and it supports USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works. > > 3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2 > layers of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops. > I started a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly > and with sound synched to the video. > > As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports "memory > ballooning", different VMs that need to use the same block of memory can > share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and thus > can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Best > of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an application > crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared > memory. > > KVM would be quite nice as the SPICE remote desktop protocol is significantly better than X. SPICE would handle remote USB, full screen video and sound in a better way than X/ltspfs/pulseaudio had done in the past. It however has major drawbacks in memory overhead compared to the old LTSP model, existing servers would be able to handle far fewer clients. Warren Togami -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gianluca.cecchi at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 17:04:28 2015 From: gianluca.cecchi at gmail.com (Gianluca Cecchi) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 19:04:28 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: References: <1023066163.243851947.1435651209320.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> <2071860006.248488660.1435764276948.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> <1435777815.4438.11.camel@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 6:07 PM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote: > > > Thank you. You understand the situation exactly. > > CentOS 7 actually contains all the same components as CentOS 6 but in a > different form. It would be theoretically possible to adapt those pieces > to work in the same manner as CentOS 6. There would be drawbacks though > ... like CentOS 7 is x86_64 only, so the client OS would no longer be able > to be built from the same OS as the server. > > Just to share information, there has been some work in place to have a CentOS 7 i686 architecture version too. See for example this thread for the beta release: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2015-June/013426.html I installed it (configured as a desktop system) and promises good. Gianluca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wtogami at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 18:03:48 2015 From: wtogami at gmail.com (Warren Togami Jr.) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 11:03:48 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Need volunteer moderators Message-ID: It seems this list might not have had any moderator for years to take care of occasional issues like stuck posts. Could someone who has a multi-year record of being helpful on this list please contact me privately if they want to volunteer to moderate? Warren Togami -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wtogami at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 18:04:41 2015 From: wtogami at gmail.com (Warren Togami Jr.) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 11:04:41 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? Message-ID: Hi folks, You think we have enough supporters out there to crowd fund hiring a developer to port LTSP to CentOS 7? While I would offer to advise and supervise whoever is sponsored to work on this, my personal time is extremely limited. It would be ideal if we could have a veteran Fedora or Red Hat developer familiar with systemd and the other core OS components to agree to advise this project. Perhaps the guy who did the CentOS 6 LTSP port could be hired to do this work? I apologize I don't recall who it was anymore. Anyone interested in talking to the developers to find a suitable developer to be paid and advisor, assess feasibility of crowdfunding and to operate the campaign? I would personally donate if a good plan is formed. Warren Togami -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Thu Jul 2 18:26:02 2015 From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be (johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 20:26:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted In-Reply-To: References: <1023066163.243851947.1435651209320.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> <2071860006.248488660.1435764276948.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> <1435777815.4438.11.camel@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1088159012.251810371.1435861562403.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Warren Togami Jr." Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." Verzonden: Donderdag 2 juli 2015 18:07:01 Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Centos7 : some ( official )help wanted On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Jim Kinney < jim.kinney at gmail.com > wrote:
Warren, Then it should say on the site " no developer wants to do the work". Now it says K12Linux is legacy. And Warren, I am grateful for the work that you put in for K12Linux. What I'm saying here, and I think what Radek is saying, is it's not legacy, It works. Legacy doesn't mean it doesn't work. It simply means no further development will be done for that particular setup. Sometimes a program becomes legacy because no one is working on it. Sometimes because it get superseded by newer projects. K12Linux on CentOS 6 is a great tool. But porting it to be fully CentOS 7 ready will require development from people other than Warren. K12Linux will be around for many more years since CentOS 6 will be around as well.
Thank you. You understand the situation exactly. CentOS 7 actually contains all the same components as CentOS 6 but in a different form. It would be theoretically possible to adapt those pieces to work in the same manner as CentOS 6. There would be drawbacks though ... like CentOS 7 is x86_64 only, so the client OS would no longer be able to be built from the same OS as the server.
I think it's time to look at alternate methods of achieving a similar result. The PXE boot aspect will need to stay but the server platform needs to be revisited. The IT world has embraced virtual machines. Maybe a thin client should be running a VM client that provides console to a remote VM running on a server farm. The spice client is remarkably light and can push screen bits as well if not better than NX and RDP (and way faster than X over SSH or VNC). Using a management tool like Ovirt would allow tech support to build and maintain student machines as pool devices and thus only require updates to a single machine. Some coding is required to provide a single sign on screen that would connect to the next available VM console (which then auto-mounts the students home directory). The VM client (spice) can be 32 bit as well as 64 so it will run on older client hardware and it supports USB pass through for thumb drives. Sound also works. 3 years ago I was doing a demo talk of Ovirt and connected through 2 layers of VPNs back to my work lab to show both windows and Linux desktops. I started a browser and went to YouTube and the flash video played smoothly and with sound synched to the video. As KVM, the technology behind Ovirt virtual machines, supports "memory ballooning", different VMs that need to use the same block of memory can share the block (read only - best for OS and application memory) and thus can perform similar types of resource sharing that K12Linux provided. Best of all, each user is truly isolated from all the others so an application crash (ahem - flash) will only affect the single user even with shared memory.
KVM would be quite nice as the SPICE remote desktop protocol is significantly better than X. SPICE would handle remote USB, full screen video and sound in a better way than X/ltspfs/pulseaudio had done in the past. It however has major drawbacks in memory overhead compared to the old LTSP model, existing servers would be able to handle far fewer clients. Warren Togami Hello, thanks for taking the time for the detailed and very helpful answers. I now understand the situation much better. No matter how this continues, with K12Linux or Spice, I have nothing but respect for the developers. Greetings, Johan _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From enslaver at enslaver.com Thu Jul 2 19:26:46 2015 From: enslaver at enslaver.com (Enslaver) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 13:26:46 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That was me Warren, i'm sorry but i don't have the time any longer. Though if someone does want it I could help get them running where i left off. On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote: > Hi folks, > > You think we have enough supporters out there to crowd fund hiring a > developer to port LTSP to CentOS 7? > > While I would offer to advise and supervise whoever is sponsored to work > on this, my personal time is extremely limited. It would be ideal if we > could have a veteran Fedora or Red Hat developer familiar with systemd and > the other core OS components to agree to advise this project. > > Perhaps the guy who did the CentOS 6 LTSP port could be hired to do this > work? I apologize I don't recall who it was anymore. > > Anyone interested in talking to the developers to find a suitable > developer to be paid and advisor, assess feasibility of crowdfunding and > to operate the campaign? I would personally donate if a good plan is > formed. > > Warren Togami > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From warren at togami.com Thu Jul 2 21:06:28 2015 From: warren at togami.com (Warren Togami Jr.) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 14:06:28 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hmm, the other distros have since adopted systemd, so maybe the work necessary to adapt LTSP to CentOS 7 wouldn't be big? Warren On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Enslaver wrote: > That was me Warren, i'm sorry but i don't have the time any longer. Though > if someone does want it I could help get them running where i left off. > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Warren Togami Jr. > wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> You think we have enough supporters out there to crowd fund hiring a >> developer to port LTSP to CentOS 7? >> >> While I would offer to advise and supervise whoever is sponsored to work >> on this, my personal time is extremely limited. It would be ideal if we >> could have a veteran Fedora or Red Hat developer familiar with systemd and >> the other core OS components to agree to advise this project. >> >> Perhaps the guy who did the CentOS 6 LTSP port could be hired to do this >> work? I apologize I don't recall who it was anymore. >> >> Anyone interested in talking to the developers to find a suitable >> developer to be paid and advisor, assess feasibility of crowdfunding and >> to operate the campaign? I would personally donate if a good plan is >> formed. >> >> Warren Togami >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wtogami at gmail.com Thu Jul 2 21:42:42 2015 From: wtogami at gmail.com (Warren Togami Jr.) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 14:42:42 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good news ... one of the upstream LTSP developers is interested in launching a crowdfunding campaign for development toward LTSP6, which would modernize the entire platform. The development necessary to modernize for LTSP would include things like pure systemd support, and things we never fully supported in the past in K12LInux in the past like fat client mode. He agreed that Fedora and CentOS would be supported target platforms. He said he will be able to work on this in September. Could you folks find people using LTSP on any distribution and ask if they will be willing to support a crowdfunding campaign coming in the August or September timeframe. Warren Togami On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote: > Hi folks, > > You think we have enough supporters out there to crowd fund hiring a > developer to port LTSP to CentOS 7? > > While I would offer to advise and supervise whoever is sponsored to work > on this, my personal time is extremely limited. It would be ideal if we > could have a veteran Fedora or Red Hat developer familiar with systemd and > the other core OS components to agree to advise this project. > > Perhaps the guy who did the CentOS 6 LTSP port could be hired to do this > work? I apologize I don't recall who it was anymore. > > Anyone interested in talking to the developers to find a suitable > developer to be paid and advisor, assess feasibility of crowdfunding and > to operate the campaign? I would personally donate if a good plan is > formed. > > Warren Togami > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl Fri Jul 3 07:21:42 2015 From: radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl (Radek Bursztynowski) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 09:21:42 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? Message-ID: <7691279.331435908102842.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } Warren, It is really fantastic news to me. Could you send some link or more details regarding LTSP's crowdfunding campaign? Best regards, Radek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren Togami Jr." Sent: Thu, 7/2/2015 11:42pm To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? Good news ... one of the upstream LTSP developers is interested in launching a crowdfunding campaign for development toward LTSP6, which would modernize the entire platform. The development necessary to modernize for LTSP would include things like pure systemd support, and things we never fully supported in the past in K12LInux in the past like fat client mode. He agreed that Fedora and CentOS would be supported target platforms. He said he will be able to work on this in September. Could you folks find people using LTSP on any distribution and ask if they will be willing to support a crowdfunding campaign coming in the August or September timeframe. Warren Togami On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote: Hi folks, You think we have enough supporters out there to crowd fund hiring a developer to port LTSP to CentOS 7? While I would offer to advise and supervise whoever is sponsored to work on this, my personal time is extremely limited. It would be ideal if we could have a veteran Fedora or Red Hat developer familiar with systemd and the other core OS components to agree to advise this project. Perhaps the guy who did the CentOS 6 LTSP port could be hired to do this work? I apologize I don't recall who it was anymore. Anyone interested in talking to the developers to find a suitable developer to be paid and advisor, assess feasibility of crowdfunding and to operate the campaign? I would personally donate if a good plan is formed. Warren Togami _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; From johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Fri Jul 3 10:59:53 2015 From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be (johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 12:59:53 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? In-Reply-To: <7691279.331435908102842.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> References: <7691279.331435908102842.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Message-ID: <1064023218.253628222.1435921193327.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> Hello, I just talked to the director of the organization I work for, we are willing to contribute. Greetings, Johan ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: "Radek Bursztynowski" Aan: "Support list for open source software in schools." , "Support list for open source software in schools." Verzonden: Vrijdag 3 juli 2015 09:21:42 Onderwerp: Re: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; } Warren, It is really fantastic news to me. Could you send some link or more details regarding LTSP's crowdfunding campaign? Best regards, Radek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren Togami Jr." Sent: Thu, 7/2/2015 11:42pm To: "Support list for open source software in schools." Subject: Re: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? Good news ... one of the upstream LTSP developers is interested in launching a crowdfunding campaign for development toward LTSP6, which would modernize the entire platform. The development necessary to modernize for LTSP would include things like pure systemd support, and things we never fully supported in the past in K12LInux in the past like fat client mode. He agreed that Fedora and CentOS would be supported target platforms. He said he will be able to work on this in September. Could you folks find people using LTSP on any distribution and ask if they will be willing to support a crowdfunding campaign coming in the August or September timeframe. Warren Togami On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote: Hi folks, You think we have enough supporters out there to crowd fund hiring a developer to port LTSP to CentOS 7? While I would offer to advise and supervise whoever is sponsored to work on this, my personal time is extremely limited. It would be ideal if we could have a veteran Fedora or Red Hat developer familiar with systemd and the other core OS components to agree to advise this project. Perhaps the guy who did the CentOS 6 LTSP port could be hired to do this work? I apologize I don't recall who it was anymore. Anyone interested in talking to the developers to find a suitable developer to be paid and advisor, assess feasibility of crowdfunding and to operate the campaign? I would personally donate if a good plan is formed. Warren Togami _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ; _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see From k12ltsp at rwcinc.net Sat Jul 4 14:50:18 2015 From: k12ltsp at rwcinc.net (Patrick Fleming) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2015 07:50:18 -0700 Subject: [K12OSN] Need volunteer moderators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5597F2AA.3010004@rwcinc.net> Warren, If you don't have any volunteers for this I'm willing to help out. I don't know how helpful I've personally been on the list - my company did contribute a small amount when you were working on the transition to EL 6. Maybe having a couple of moderators might be helpful for the days I'm away from my computer. Patrick On 07/02/2015 11:03 AM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote: > It seems this list might not have had any moderator for years to take > care of occasional issues like stuck posts. Could someone who has a > multi-year record of being helpful on this list please contact me > privately if they want to volunteer to moderate? > > Warren Togami > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > From enslaver at enslaver.com Mon Jul 6 17:34:35 2015 From: enslaver at enslaver.com (Enslaver) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 11:34:35 -0600 Subject: [K12OSN] Kickstarter or Indiegogo for K12Linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It shouldn't be difficult at all to port to RHEL7/CentOS 7. The difficult part of porting to fedora was the ever changing pieces, config file changes and rpms, now that its a bit more locked down the port should be doable, also using the spice protocol seems a bit more sane these days. The NBD module was a bit of a pain previously due to redhat not including it in their kernel, but there are plenty other methods to boot nowadays. Also the adaptation of systemd in other distros is also a plus, there are probably parts of other ltsp distro files that could be commonly included. -Josh On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 3:06 PM, Warren Togami Jr. wrote: > Hmm, the other distros have since adopted systemd, so maybe the work > necessary to adapt LTSP to CentOS 7 wouldn't be big? > > Warren > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Enslaver wrote: > >> That was me Warren, i'm sorry but i don't have the time any longer. >> Though if someone does want it I could help get them running where i left >> off. >> >> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Warren Togami Jr. >> wrote: >> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> You think we have enough supporters out there to crowd fund hiring a >>> developer to port LTSP to CentOS 7? >>> >>> While I would offer to advise and supervise whoever is sponsored to work >>> on this, my personal time is extremely limited. It would be ideal if we >>> could have a veteran Fedora or Red Hat developer familiar with systemd and >>> the other core OS components to agree to advise this project. >>> >>> Perhaps the guy who did the CentOS 6 LTSP port could be hired to do this >>> work? I apologize I don't recall who it was anymore. >>> >>> Anyone interested in talking to the developers to find a suitable >>> developer to be paid and advisor, assess feasibility of crowdfunding and >>> to operate the campaign? I would personally donate if a good plan is >>> formed. >>> >>> Warren Togami >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> K12OSN mailing list >>> K12OSN at redhat.com >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >>> For more info see >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> K12OSN mailing list >> K12OSN at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn >> For more info see >> > > > _______________________________________________ > K12OSN mailing list > K12OSN at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn > For more info see > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be Tue Jul 7 09:41:42 2015 From: johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be (johan.vermeulen7 at telenet.be) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 11:41:42 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [K12OSN] usb on Centos& ( was : reduce image size / speed up boot process ) In-Reply-To: <7967089.361434552782643.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> References: <7967089.361434552782643.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Message-ID: <1212548418.262527035.1436262102944.JavaMail.root@telenet.be> One additional question: does usb work in you environment at the moment? greetings, Johan --- Johan, Let me note that I still work on CentOS 6 (I don't tested K12Linux on CentOS 7 deeply). On CentOS 6 USB work fine. You should remeber to add LTSP users to fuse group. Users don't joined to fuse group don't use USB devices on thin client machine. I noted next small problem with USB devices connected to thin client machine. On CentOS 6 GNOME environment shows connected to thin client machine usb device icon only. XFCE and KDE don't although USB device is mounted (this note concerns LTSP environment only). I prepared own script, which support this luck. You can check connected USB device (on the directory /media/username/device_name, on CentOS 7 /run/media/username/device_name - on CentOS 7 I suppose this directory, but I am not sure). Perhaps you have the same problem. Best regards, Radek Hello Radek, hello All, can I ask for some advise regarding usb on my ( experimental ) Centos7 setup? I created group fuse manualy and added my user to the group. In lts.conf I have a line LOCALDEV=True When inserting the usb, I see nothing in dmesg. I don't have a working Centos6 install where I can look what should happen. The stick does not get mounted on /media of on /run/media/user I don't have the deeper understanding on how usb works on ltsp to troubleshoot this further. So any help would be appreciated. greetings, Johan From radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl Tue Jul 7 12:04:21 2015 From: radek at bursztynowski.waw.pl (Radek Bursztynowski) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 14:04:21 +0200 Subject: [K12OSN] usb on Centos& ( was : reduce image size / speed up boot process ) Message-ID: <12925823.571436270661488.JavaMail.root@poczta.bursztynowski.waw.pl> Johan, Yes, it works. I am formating at the moment new hdd connected to the thin client terminal with Scientific Linux 6.1 i686 image. Best regards, Radek ----- One additional question: does usb work in you environment at the moment? greetings, Johan --- Johan, Let me note that I still work on CentOS 6 (I don't tested K12Linux on CentOS 7 deeply). On CentOS 6 USB work fine. You should remeber to add LTSP users to fuse group. Users don't joined to fuse group don't use USB devices on thin client machine. I noted next small problem with USB devices connected to thin client machine. On CentOS 6 GNOME environment shows connected to thin client machine usb device icon only. XFCE and KDE don't although USB device is mounted (this note concerns LTSP environment only). I prepared own script, which support this luck. You can check connected USB device (on the directory /media/username/device_name, on CentOS 7 /run/media/username/device_name - on CentOS 7 I suppose this directory, but I am not sure). Perhaps you have the same problem. Best regards, Radek Hello Radek, hello All, can I ask for some advise regarding usb on my ( experimental ) Centos7 setup? I created group fuse manualy and added my user to the group. In lts.conf I have a line LOCALDEV=True When inserting the usb, I see nothing in dmesg. I don't have a working Centos6 install where I can look what should happen. The stick does not get mounted on /media of on /run/media/user I don't have the deeper understanding on how usb works on ltsp to troubleshoot this further. So any help would be appreciated. greetings, Johan _______________________________________________ K12OSN mailing list K12OSN at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn For more info see ;